Every time I hear Christians talk about how the devil appears in a form that will appeal to the masses, my first thought is: "So he appears in wings and a halo? Maybe he writes an ambiguous book that can be used to justify anything?"
IF I believed in Satan, I would easily believe that the torah, bible and qur'an were from him. Think about it; what kind of character wants to be worshipped? A mature, secure, holy, calm, caring, godlike character, or an insecure, immature, narcissistic, sadistic, petty character? What kind of character is so illogical as to base saving people on their beliefs, rather than what kind of people they actually are, and, in many of these belief systems, is supposed to torture unbelievers for eternity? All round these "gods" sound pretty Satanic to me. IF I believed in Satan, I would believe that they've ALL been conned by him, rather than being conned by sneaky, corrupt humans, which is the case. I've often asked religious people what makes them so arrogant that they are so convinced that they couldn't be fooled by a multi-millennia old Uber-Angel? In "The Usual Suspects" there's the line, "the greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist", but, IF he did exist, then what greater trick than to convince the world to worship him as "god", and build temples, synagogues, cathedrals and mosques to his “glory”???
Satan easily is just the editor of the Bible, there is enough manipulation in that alone. What better form to take than a holy book that survives fires 😆
Learning the origins of Satan was one of the biggest keys to my deconversion. Once you realize that the character of the Devil is made up to fit whatever evil niches the situation calls for, after having been stripped of his initial role of Yahweh's left-hand guy because of Dante's fan-fiction, it really starts to fall apart fast.
after wasting 20 years going to church three times a week i finally understood why satan stared at earth from heaven and was like "stick it up your ass boss, i quit."
Not to mention that Lucifer literally translates as 'Bringer of Light', which hardly sounds like the incarnation of some ultimate evil. He was supposed to be the greatest of the angels before he 'rebelled' and got cast out of heaven. The frequent depiction of him as having goat's legs and horns is interesting to me because it's reminiscent of the Greek god Pan, a nature deity. And he's not even the only example of a horned god, merely the best-known, as horns symbolised sacred power in many older religions.
@@diarmuidkuhle8181Well I mean Innocent the 3rd burned down Constantinople… so the name thing doesn’t always reflect future actions… also it’s earily similar to “shining being” which put together literally meant snake.
@@diarmuidkuhle8181it’s because half the New Testament plagiarises the ars goetia. So when there’s a bunch of random name dropped demons some people assume they are all the same thing. ( now assuming the bible is true do you think god would randomly use ambiguous terms for the same person? No, clearly they are different) Pretty sure almost every demon and demonic possession is just straight up stolen from the ars goetia
I was asked as a teen to make a list of things that I wanted god to forgive me or things I wanted him to forgive for others and I put down Satan because I thought if he forgave Satan, things would be better. My youth group pastor just laugh at me and told me he's not going to do that.
Depends on the particular Xtian denomination. Some Protestant sects believe that even Satan will be forgiven and return to God (and, presumably, be restored to his original angelic nature) at the end of days. What's always annoyed me is that while he's depicted as the 'great enemy', in the scenes (few enough) where he's explicitly interacting with people in the bible, God either permits him to do what he does or has explicitly appointed him to do what he does. After all, Satan is only yet another one of God's creatures. But then that'd be asking for logical consistency in the most self-contradictory book of nonsense ever written.
Ever since I read the Koran and heard there version of satan I thought the same thing. In that book Satan did not want to worship a lesser being. Even though God told him to, he refused because of pride. I still wonder if Satan really is Gods left hand or is the one the seat on His left hand is prepared for. What is love, or faith if it has not been tested or tempted. It is easy to play along when you can plainly see the truth and know everything. It had to be someone people would really believe was capable of it. The highest mission , to give up everything, his title, beauty and power for God. To be His adversary, to glorify His name.
Your youth pastor was an idiot. Since my youth I had learned on my own that true good and evil boils down to service to self or service to others. By this perspective you can truly discern the satanic principle involved. Actions and Intentions, not Sunday School caricatures.
"I'm just a simple bible believer" I love how so many Christians try to make themselves seem so peaceful/timid while at the same time actively stomping over anyone else who disagrees with them.
They cant even agree to which bible is correct or who is correct in following the bible, Jews only like old testament, while catholics want both, but a plus of their own rules, protestants were first to say "No we are TRUE bible believers", while ortodox chill by the side and say they are the ones following "Gods intentions", and then about milion sects in America who knows and loves God the best
I told a Christian I used to be Hindu and they just shat all over the people of India with glee, for having the audacity to believe in the wrong things. Utterly absurd.
It's funny how it's always been told that we cannot comprehend God's love or choices, yet these men are able to understand, decipher, and teach God's words and reasonings
@@razoredge6130 That doesn't make any sense. You don't need to be imbued with some special power to understand when the subject in question could just *literally speak inside everyone's head at the same time with an undeniable presence in whatever form they comprehend* . If ANY of these people were actually right, there wouldn't be so very many disagreements from within even on the fundamentals. Hell, the trinity isn't even a settled matter in the broader Christian narrative. A lot of them consider the trinity to be a blasphemous and evil false idol created by men.
@@kylegonewildThey don't the holy spirit. Many consider themselves to be Christian is different from being actually Christian. That's why there's "disagreements". You can't understand the bible without the holy spirit.
Also, as a snake owner, hearing preachers go on about how cunning and vile the serpent was is too funny. Snakes are goofy clumsy creatures that struggle to make it in this crazy world just like the rest of us.
exactly lol snakes actually remind me a lot of bugs behavior wise, they're timid but once you get them on your arm they're more curious and kinda just treat you like a tree branch. they're such cute little dumb babies, it blows my mind how much humans like to assign malicious intent to anyone but themselves...
Snakes are derpy and spend most of their time lazily conserving energy. It's cute how they stick out their tongue to figure out things. And it's cool that the internet has given them names like snek or danger noodle.
Ah, but the original serpent had legs, so maybe it got dumber after the Fall (which, of course, never happened, because most of the bible is myths and legends)?
Yeah, my little ball python barely has 2 brain cells to rub together. He's such a derp, he's scared of his own food. How these guys survive in the African jungle is beyond me. Only time I ever got bit was trying to feed him and he got so scared and overwhelmed by the situation he struck. Didn't even break skin, he was bluffing with his mouth closed. More like aggressive boops.
Growing up in a very strict Christian background and eventually being kicked out at 18 for being gay, I’ve been deconstructing my faith since I was probably about 14. Now ten years later my sister is having the same issues I did when I was younger and still living with my parents. I’m hoping I can be a safe place for her to land if things get bad, cuz lord knows I needed that when I first left . Thank you for all you do and the work you put in these videos . It helps in more ways than you can imagine
Yeah, Im 14 and I am currently deconstructing my faith too. When I was younger I used to believe in God and Jesus, but sooner I saw the problems with Christianity and left. Im still going to church with my mom, but I don't believe whatever they say.
"I have a lot of friends who really like the show Lucifer, but I could never really get into it. I just can't get past the fantasy element of there being good cops" I'm deceased
As a person who used to be a practicing Jewish woman, these videos always serve as an interesting look into the ways Christianity took Jewish beliefs and used fear to make them more forceful, rather than the way it used to be. The Torah was written to be interpreted in the times it’s read in. It’s not uncommon, even to this day, for there to be consistent debates about what any particular line may be saying. Not to mention that Hell didn’t exist before the Christians wrote the Bible
this~~~~~ hell was created during the Roman times where things like the underworld and a punishing afterlife were more common. Judaism is so much more chill and Christianity is basically it's paganized version.
@@kennethwoody5897I mean, the closest analogue would be Sheol, but is considered tamer than the other depictions of nasty afterlives in Abrahamic religions.
Just thought I’d let you know that I’m a Canadian Pastor and I find your videos very insightful. I am almost finished a series on the seven deadly sins and I treated your videos as great instructions on things to avoid. I know you have shared bits and pieces of your journey out of the Christian faith and I appreciate your openness. I’m glad you have found a creative and useful way to engage with your past experiences and create something positive. Some of of what you say I find very funny and some of it stings, but it’s all been good to listen too.
Interesting. I guess, it checks out. Instead of actually telling people what's in the book, you learn about "what alienates people" when you tell to them so you can avoid alienating the public by not giving them the bits that make them question.
@@MikshvertThat’s not quite what I meant. I hope everyone who listens to me questions their beliefs all the time and everything I tell them. No one should take my word solely when they are thinking about what kind of faith (if any) they have or what they believe about X. I meant many of these videos point out blind spots of where something can be said that is hurtful or judgmental that I might miss because it is such a common turn of phrase for many Christians. The videos on Greed, Sloth, and Wrath really helped me think through principles of rest, and a reminder of the value of anger and making sure people have the safe space to feel and express their emotions, and to really make sure I don’t make people feel bad for rightly wanting fair wages and time off.
Aw, this is amazing! I grew up in an actually really positive and loving and socially active Christian church. I'm now agnostic, but I still wonder about God all the time and hold a lot of love for the church as I knew it growing up. It gives me a lot of joy to see people of any religion practicing their faith in a truly healthy and uplifting way. (I too enjoy these breakdown videos, though they mostly don't look like what I heard as a child and youth it's good to know what's said out there in the broader Christian spaces and likely affecting people I know and have been in community with)
If you embrace Satan-you burn in hell if you dont care about him-still hell if you believe in God,but not in the right way-still hell christian pastor: we are born to win 💀💀💀
@@chromebison5900 one religious person once implied that people with good and pure intentions go to hell, as "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" , according to him you don't have to be a good person and even good people deserve going to hell, just for believing the "wrong" way. No need to tell you how disgusted I'm by religious narcissists ever since then 🤦
I grew up up with a mother who got offended and saw Satan in everything. Now as an adult who has moved out from both that environment and Christianity, not only am I an athiest - but one of my favorite shows is a show that has The Devil as a literal cartoon character. You eventually learn to stop taking him seriously when you realize that he's used constantly as a way to avoid accountability and dehumanize others. edit: spelling is hard
when I developed POTS and quickly ended up needing a wheelchair to get around, my former pastor told me Satan was making me sick because I love horror movies. "do you want to be in that chair forever?" like dude. Satan didn't make me sick. that's weird.
A church elder heavily implied my seizure disorder was caused by sin in my life (I was getting approval to bring my new alert dog to service). No, a-hole, my seizures were caused by my VERY RELIGIOUS beating me senseless so many times that I ended up with permanent damage. But thanks for your input…..
@@johnoconnell5004postural orthostatic tachycardia system- very basically, your blood doesn’t distribute through your body like it should which can make you really sick, faint a lot, etc.
Please never stop making this type of content. It’s so helpful for me, as I continue working through my religious trauma. You’re truly doing the Lord (Farquaad)‘s work.
I grew up in an abusive household where neither parent was 100% safe. I think this is why I hated going to church and bible studies. Because every person I met, and the God they preached about, was just as abusive as my parents. And even as a child, some part of me knew that.
I'm so sorry for you My growing up experience with Christianity was very positive, when I was in grade school, I knew a fellow student who encouraged me to go to a Good News club, where I was taught the basics of the faith My church where I became a believer was very good, we had many services and I couldn't wait to go In my life, I have been through many dark places, but God has always come to my rescue, healing for mental distress as well as physical I can't fully explain why I went through but I never turned my back on Jesus and now that I'm in the last laps of this race, I am looking forward to seeing Jesus face to face and enjoying eternal life, I wouldn't trade anything in this current state for Jesus it's not worth trading I hope you reconsider Christianity there really is nothing worth being apart from God
@@robzielke9989 I'm not sure what you are eluding to maybe Jim Jones? I'm looking forward to being with Jesus for eternity and those who will be there God's going to throw us a huge party and serve us delicious food And I'll be able to enjoy many activities that I didn't have time for and rule and reign for ever What are you looking forward to?
@@cathy7382 😂😂😂 cookies and warm milk waiting for you!!! Good stuff! The saying means “don’t challenge anything, conform and follow blindly” Not surprising you made a cult reference. Fitting What am I looking forward to? I look forward to every day. I look forward to helping those in need, not because I fear a lil red guy with a pitchfork, or a magician sitting in the clouds. I look forward to leaving this rock better than I found it. Enjoy your magical party after death though.
That's just it we're not supposed to. We're just supposed to accept it on faith that anything God does is good. That's one of the reasons I left. I realized that they actually thought anything could be good if God did it
Its like a mental short circuit trying to divide by zero God is good Whatever God does is good God made Satan So Satan is good All things bad are Satan God made all bad things All bad things are good God wins Man loves winners Man loves God Man builds robots God has the love of mankind and robots God's plan is complete
@@doodleprophetGod is good. Satan is bad. But it's a good thing that God made Satan (with all his badness) so Jesus could defeat Satan and be glorified so that Jesus could impress himself (since Jesus is God).
My parents are wonderful and never pushed religion on me, but my grandparents are hardcore Christians. When I was young I would spend holidays at my grandparents place, and they would teach me about Christianity, take me to church, watch biblical movies, etc. I was a curious and trusting child, I asked plenty of questions and believed every answer they gave me. I remember the day they finally told me about hell, that believers got to go to heaven, and those who didn't believe would suffer for all of eternity. I broke down screaming and crying at the dinner table, realizing that almost nobody I knew was Christian, not my wonderful friends, my younger sister, or even my own fucking parents. I'd just been told that god was going to let them all burn in an eternal hellfire for the rest of time if they didn't convert. What's more, that was the straw that finally made me begin to question god. I questioned why such a perfect being would let this happen to wonderful people all around the world, just for not believing in him. If believing in him was so important, why couldn't he send clearer signs? Leave no room for doubt, so all those people would be saved? Then the panic set in, because if I questioned god's existence, I would meet the same fate. I began begging my grandparents to convince me, told them I had doubts but I really really wanted to believe. So they took me to church, they brought me to see a pastor who counselled me and gave me little pamphlets and books titled things like 'Jesus for Sceptics'. I read them all, I tried so hard, but it just wasn't working. The doubt wouldn't go away and I was terrified. I remember that's when I began to pray. I told God how desperately I wanted to trusted him, but I just needed some kind of concrete sign. I asked him for help, to speak to me, to give me even the slightest whisper so I could rid myself of this doubt and finally dedicate my heart to him. I begged him to at least spare my friends and family when they died, to let us live together in heaven, that I didn't want to be all alone in the afterlife while everyone I loved suffered. He never responded, I mustn't've believed hard enough. I was damned. I thought a lot of things in that time. I figured that life didn't matter, because 80 years on earth was nothing compared to the eternity that came after. I remember wishing I'd died as a toddler, because grandma told me when newborns died they got a free ticket to heaven since they died pure. I wanted to convert my friends and family, I wanted to save them so badly. I wanted to save all the people around the world, all the wonderful people who were going to suffer forever because they were unlucky enough to be born into the wrong religion. This was such a long time ago that I don't remember what exactly pulled me out of it, but I distinctly remember the phrase 'nobody knows exactly what happens after we die'. I don't know if it was a scene from a show, or my own parents speaking to me. Someone was explaining that everybody has their own theories, everyone believes different things, but nobody knows for sure. I'm an atheist now, but I'm still open to having my mind changed. If god finally comes right out and sends me some divine message saying he was real all along and explaining himself, then I'll believe he exists. Excruciating fear was the only thing that came close to converting me. The fear factor works wonders, especially on little kids. I think that time fucked me up more than I'd like to admit, because I vaguely remember mentioning it to a therapist when he asked when my hair-pulling disorder started, a disorder I've been stuck with to this day. Oh and to this day my grandparents still believe all those pamphlets successfully converted me. I don't have the heart or courage to tell them they drove me far away from religion. I wonder if it gives them peace of mind, believing they'll get to see me in heaven, even when their own son won't be joining them. They love my dad so much that I wonder if being around him ever brings them pain. How agonizing must it be to look at your own family members and know they'll suffer eternal hellfire when their lives are over? I wonder if they feel a sense of duty to convert me and my sister, that they need to save us while we still can be saved. I felt that very strongly when I first learned of hell. I wanted to convert every person in the world, I wanted to save everyone I could from that unfair fate. Holy shit this comment got long. My parents are wonderful (I love them very much) and my grandparents live far away so my negative experiences with religion are rather insignificant compared to people who are stuck in a very religious environment their whole lives. My heart goes out to those who are deconstructing believes that've been so thoroughly engrained in them. ❤
Hmmm, satan is actually someone all nice and convincing, eh ? That was child abuse. Please don't continue the abuse by even touching your hair, that lets the devil win (wink!).
Confess this with all of your heart, body, and mind and you will saved, “I believe in my heart that God raised Jesus from the dead; I confess with my mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord of my life.”
If you’re not yet born again, you can do this right away by praying this prayer: “Lord Jesus, I ask that you come into my heart and be the Lord of my life from this day forward. I confess with my mouth that you are Lord of my life, and believe in my heart that God raised you from the dead; therefore I declare that I am saved.”
@@sentientplant9658 when I was young I had a big deck of pokemon cards that I got from all my friends. But my mom got caught up in all the anti pokemon stuff that was going on at the time. She took all the card and burned them. She did that to a lot of my stuff that she didn't like. All because she thought it would let demons into house, and somehow I'm the one who doesn't understand reality.
My friend shared his story about how his mom invited a priest over to their house and that priest burnt all his Pokemon cards, games, and any Pokemon merch right in front of him. He said he'll never forgive him his mom for that and who could blame him
This honestly makes me want to see the Bible from Lucifer's perspective. I could definitely see him being the perfect and wise angel that God made him, then seeing how it's a "love and obey me or go to hell forever, you totally have free will and a choice" (as if he's not basically putting a gun up to your head) situation for us, tried to take it upon himself to do it better. But God being insecure removing him and making Lucifer the bad guy. God goes on his controversy of thou shalt not murder but murder these people for me, love thy neighbor as thyself but also separate yourselves from the nonbelievers cause they'll corrupt you... Old testament God being mad... Jesus fasts for the 40 days, Lucifer sees he's starving and tries to get him to eat cause bro that's not good, tries to help him get off the mountain quickly, tries to make a deal with him so he doesn't have to suffer the way God wants him to... Feels interesting enough
Ive alway wondered a certian question about his rebellion. What if God lied about why he rebelled? What if it wasn't a rebellion but a purge of those who could challenge him? Or what if the Christian god wasn't the original creator but rather a usurper? I keep thinking more and more that if these beings did exist, Lucifer was justified completely.
@@cathy7382Just when you could know. He is very crafty but there is nothing good left in him God took everything away when he wanted His Throne and made him Prince of Darkness and Ruler of it in another words Satan lost his free will
I've read a book that portrays Lucifer like that, of course he's also a romantic interest. It's from a 47 part long Norwegian book series written in the 80s (the Lucifer story is only one of the books).
Watching all these preachers in a row in these videos really makes it clear to me how they always speak in a way that’s way more focused on sounding persuasive than the average speaker. They’re always yelling or speaking in a hypnotic rhythm
I feel that too. Even as a former Christian , I would be told “but god blessed Job 10x as much and gave him a new family!” And I was like “but how does that make it ok that his other wife and children were purposefully slaughtered???” And of course, as a response to that question, I would just be scolded for questioning god lol.
I feel that way about all those innocent babies that got slaughtered both in the Old and New Testament. Both Moses and Jesus were spared by God by having them go into hiding until the heat's off. But it still bothers me. Why did God allow all those other babies to be slaughtered by the Pharoah and Herod?
And they all died become someone challenged God, and instead of using his all powerful wisdom to determine the answer, he accepted the bet just to prove a point. A man's family was murdered for bragging rights
I’ve been deconstructing for years now and sometimes I still feel some sort of guilt when watching certain shows (or more recently: buying a poster with the horned god on it). Literally everything was considered evil or demonic when I grew up, which caused me to miss out on a lot. Even to the point where I wasn’t allowed to use a certain school book. Why you ask? Because in front of every question there was a crystal ball (it actually was a light bulb and was used as an information sign) and my mom believed my teacher wanted us to dabble in fortune telling. So I had to be separated from the entire class when they used that particular book. It was embarrassing as hell and the story of my life.
@@carolinemaybe Damn, you just unlocked another memory🤣. It was the absolute worst, especially when you’re a kid: you want to fit in so bad, but that just didn’t seem to matter.
I feel you on this. I wasn’t allowed to participate in certain things or watch certain movies. I had to skip school in high school, not to go smoke pot or drink alcohol or other things parents think their teenagers are doing when they skip school, no. I skipped school to go to my best friends house to have a Harry Potter marathon. I HAD to see it. My mom blamed poor little Harry for everything, including but not limited to, school shootings even! My sisters also f’d around and found out when they were severely punished for a whole month for watching MTV. An episode of the real world.
It's always funny to hear people talk about how evil Satan is even though in the Bible itself, God had killed more people. Not to mention sending half of humanity to burn in Hell for eternity in the End Times.
@@pineapplepenumbragod literally says in the bible that he's the source of both truth *and* lies, good *and* evil. Every time a Christian says god is all good, they're calling it a liar
Would you ever do an episode on the “non-canon” books of the Bible, and how the church left those books out to attempt to make it more believable and follow a more concrete narrative? I found out about the lost books of the Bible, such as the gospel of Judas, and it’s honestly really interesting because it further confirms that the god Christians worship was evil, narcissistic, and not all-powerful. His original name, Saklas, even roughly translates to Fool.
Something that I keep thinking about when it comes to Lucifer: If God made us & the angels with free will then why did he banish Lucifer because he didn't want to obey God? Think of it like this: Our parents created us but that doesn't mean we have to spend our entire life obeying them without ever being allowed to question them or doing things that they don't want us to. As we get older we hopefully get to choose what we want to do with our lives regardless of if our parents like it or not. Now how is that different from Lucifer? Why do the angels & by extension humans have to always obey God just because he created them & get punished if they don't? It makes u wonder why we were given free will in the first place if God wants us to obey him for all eternity
Why do you think the fundie parents are often the ones who think they own their children, even as adults? They genuinely think they do, and thus god owns them by the same logic
Clearly God gave Satan a high spot in heaven and it was good, Satan was given knowledge and power. But Satan didn’t question God he led a full blown attack while rounding up 1/3 of angels as well.
It's real convenient how when Christians mention the serpent in the garden of Eden, they're quick to conclude that the snake is Satan. Yet when Cain kills his brother Abel in the next story, Satan isn't blamed for it and Cain is just considered an evil man who killed his brother of his own free will, he wasn't tempted by some outside force just his own pride and envy. Reeeaaalll convenient 🧐
Worse is that "god" let Cain walk around afterwards (protected from being killed even) ...why ? Was it so Cain's spawn was going to be sooo bad that "god" would drown almost every living creature except seven people ? Where one of them was a drunk ? Stupid is as stupid is written.
Fun fact (but not really) one time I realized "wait, what if the devil wanted to be a snake in the garden of eden just to see how it was, jokingly told adam and eve to eat the apple thinking they couldn't be that dumb, and then they fucking did anyway because their iq was 0?" Effectively turning the entire story into "unfortunately, humans were, and still are, stupid beyond even gods reckoning"
The pause he did was perfect, I even started to think about the fantasy parts of the show and how unrealistic they were, then he said "good cops" and I actually laughed out loud
It's ironic how one of the most common sayings about satan is "the greatest lie the devil ever told was making you believe he didn't exist." When the character was literally invented from very little or no basis in the actual texts.
Interestingly enough, I read an article on a religion and mythology website about how in one of the Apocrypha, specifically the Book of Jubilees, there is an angel referred to as Mastema who kinda-sorta-almost fills the role of Satan. Supposedly, their role was to test the faith of humans, punish wrongdoing, and help carry out God's will on earth. Thing is, they weren't an adversary of God, no, they were doing their job. It's kind of interesting seeing how Christianity's evolved over the millennia, but it def makes it harder to put any stock in it.
I always believed the greatest lie was that Satan does exist. Like Noah actually got every species of the animal kingdom in a manmade boat. Or Moses actually spread the Red sea.
Even before I stopped being a Christian entirely, I was convinced that Satan worked for God. How could anyone defy and all-powerful being? They couldn't. Therefore, he worked for God and I stopped having any fear of him after that.
while God is indeed all-powerful, He allows free will, which includes the possibility of rebellion. Satan's actions are not in service to God but are permitted within God's sovereign will. A healthy fear of God recognizes His justice and power while embracing His love and mercy. Ultimately, the Bible affirms that God will triumph over all evil, including Satan.
Honestly, the lucifer and fallen angels things, as a literary thing, is sooooo interesting. Religion is always so good as a piece of literature. So inspiring.
I was in a class on the poet John Milton and when I say we were all on Satan's side reading Paradise Lost, I'm not joking lmao Every discussion we had was like "HE'S GOT A POINT AND ADAM IS A MISOGYNISTIC HIMBO" 😂😂😂😂 Then we spent the other half of the class roasting Milton for being....that's a 100-slide PowerPoint presentation that I'm not dropping on you but he's not a good dude lmao
I was interested in the Fallen Angel mythology myself, until I realized that Satan is a misanthrope person… Satan is a big red multi-headed dragon..🔥🔥🐉🐲🟥🟥
Apparently, and I don’t know how many more churches are using this argument, but it’s quite literally because God doesn’t know evil. In some interpretations His nature is so “good” that he can’t comprehend “bad”. Which is wack, because that means He’s neither Omniscient or Omnipotent. So not a god.
I recently found your channel and really enjoy it. I have some religious trauma from my past of being raised in the church, and this video specifically really shines a light on just how hard it is to argue with fundamentalists. I swear I feel like I am having an aneurysm hearing their circular reasoning.
2:45 this is fascinating to me because Lucifer he's actually pretty accurate to Christian mythology . He's supposed to be handsome and seductive and he's supposed to have mainly a gripe against God and not against humens . Lucifer is not much further from Christian Cannon "Paradise Lost"
The main problem I had with "Lucifer" is that the Lucifer in the bible is clearly referring to a human king of Babylon (although some have claimed that it's referring to Babylon as a whole), that and the actor was in "Miranda".
@@pineapplepenumbrain DC canon ,which yes lucifer is part of, any god or deity that exists does so purely based on belief. So many people believe Lucifer to be what he was described as in the bible that its the mold he's shoved into.
"Searching for the truth should never endanger the truth." 💯 Beautifully said. I look forward to all your vids. Thanks for your hard work and insights. ❤
The idea that people truly believe that satan is a real person who wants to make them sin was one of the hardest things to wrap my head around as someone who was raised without religion.
God has been known to kill thousands for the mildest slight against him, you can’t tell me for a single second he wouldn’t immediately annihilate Satan
While it might seem logical that God would annihilate Satan immediately after his rebellion, the Bible presents a more complex picture of God's dealings with sin and rebellion. God's judgments serve a greater purpose, demonstrating His holiness, justice, and patience while allowing for the testing and refining of believers' faith. Instances like the plagues in Egypt and the destruction of Sodom show His judgments are not arbitrary but part of a greater plan, often allowing opportunities for repentance (2 Peter 3:9). Satan's continued existence is permitted within God's sovereign plan, and his ultimate defeat is assured (Revelation 20:10). Understanding God's actions requires recognizing His higher ways and the broader narrative of redemption revealed in Scripture (Isaiah 55:8-9).
@@studyackatherine1693 So basically, Yahweh is a sadistic egomaniac, who wants humanity to pointlessly suffer- cause the bronze age warlords who commissioned these stories wanted to have their cake and eat it too. "Our god is super powerful and smart and good- as a matter of fact he is infinitely powerful, knowing and good! Suck on that, pagans!" "If he's infinitely powerful, knowing and good, than evil should not exist. After all, he has the ability, knowledge and morals to wipe it out. Whence comes evil, then?" "Well, um, uhh... free will! It's obviously the victims' fault. Cause, like, Yahweh doesn't want automatons." "But, if he is all knowing, he knows the future, which means he knows how all of us will act, meaning we are predestined. Therefore we are automatons to him, and "free will" is nothing more than an excuse to torment us for something we have no choice in." " Waah, free will! God gave you a choice! It doesn't matter if he knew 100% what you would choose from the beginning, cause I said so! My god is greater and we will show it with the most sophisticated of methods- by murder- I mean "righteously killing" all of you!" "Appeal to force. Can't an all powerful, all knowing god come up with something more sophisticated? Like brainwashing. After all, he can hear our thoughts..."
It’s amusing but strange when the religious communities accept fan fiction as general beliefs, for instance how many people treat The Divine Comedy or Paradise Lost like they’re canonical? I don’t remember Genesis saying anything about Satan or Jesus existing before the fall, all I remember are two naked folks, a snake and a sky potter. At least it laid the foundation for the greatest book ever written, Moby Dick.
To be fair, what _not_ accept The Divine Comedy or Paradise Lost as if they’re canonical? The bible was made up shit, or distortions of older myths and legends, so those and even films and TV programmes are no more unreal than that.
From what I remember in génesis the Word used for "god created them in his image and likeness" is plural. So You could argue that god was talking to Jesus..... Obviously it's Made believe and is stick together with strings and ducktape but it's A link.
@benjaminmadrigalperez9010 actually he was talking to the other gods. he's the supreme god but all others are part of his council. of course this interpretation fell by the wayside when they decided to idolize jesus
To be fair, the LDS 'church' does have canonical stories about satan and jesus before the Creation. But like most running cons, it just patches the old holes and makes new ones.
Dante wrote those books as a diss on certain people he knew and to express his hatred of the Catholic church. They were satire he was forced to write them.
I am loving this new series, Trevor. The way you let these fundies explain in their own words exactly how ridiculous all of this is, is masterful. I can’t believe I ever believed any of this nonsense.
I'm a Christian and I watch most of these videos and it's frustrating because I don't agree with most of the clips he shares either. The Christians he highlights are poor examples unfortunately and he's rejecting Jesus based off of these silly ridiculous people who don't even represent Him well. To an extent it's an indictment against the disunity of Christianity where there can be so many "expressions" of Christianity that they stray away from the very thing they claim to be. I'm right with you that it's hard to believe any of this nonsense because these people talk about nonsense.
@@N8R_Quizzie That's just evidence that the Holy Spirit is not guiding every believer towards the truth. Think about it. I was in your position last year, but now I finally came out of this mental prison.
@@asharpminorhkThis will be a pretty long comment: you can choose to quench the Holy Spirit or to follow it like Galatians 5:16-17 says. Now, only true Christians have the Holy Spirit. For us this is hard to tell as a whole because who is and who isn't really a Christian is different for just about everyone. What we can (kind of) tell is if the Holy Spirit is really working within a person. You can look at the fruits of the Spirit in Galatians 5 to see if someone or generally the people of a certain "expression" of Christianity has those fruits and are increasing. There are a ton of denominations based on mostly secondary doctrinal issues in which do not determine if someone's a Christian or not. As bad as disunity is, it shows the organic-(ism) of Christianity because it's not made up. If it were made up it'll look a lot more like Mormonism or something where there's one very specific origin outta some cult basement or something lol. So in a way that's fine that it's not all exactly the same. My issue is with some of these false preachers giving a bad name and a misrepresentation of Christianity. There's a lot of prosperity gospel and some charismatic (with some crossover) preachers that totally ignore Jesus and that's the primary problem.
I love how the further I delve into Christianity with an atheistic mindset, the more God and Satan begin to sound like exes that had a bad breakup and are dragging the kids into it.
And god is having a hard time to forgive bim but you a human being should forgive seconds after being hurt despite him being revengeful and unforgiving
@@eun371The god who literally died to signify his forgiveness is unforgiving? The one who literally blessed the people who were torturing him to death was un forgiving? Did the ACTUAL FUCKING PHARISEES teach you the Bible?
I mean Yeah, even from a Christian point of View the first thing the Serpent did was twist eves perception of God’s words into convincing Eve to do the one thing she wasn’t allowed to yet. That sounds like toxic ex behavior at least on one side.
Just wait until they stumble on “Angel Sanctuary”. I did a paper on the devil, for religion class in Catholic school and my classmates lost their collective mind. They were very curious about it and desperate to read ir- even though they did not even speak to me- but were terrified of the cover. I copied it, by hand, from a book cover that reproduced a pamphlet from the Middle Ages, it was the usual five points star and goat’s head. This terrified them. To the point they wouldn’t even touch it and some were afraid of being in the same room with it! One asked me about it and was floored when I told her I drew it late at night, alone in my living room. As if this was a very brave thing to do!
When you're in the grip of religion, a concept like Satan seems perfectly reasonable. When you have a few years of separation from those beliefs, hearing about things like Satan feels exactly like hearing grown adults earnestly discussing their beliefs in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. It makes exactly as much sense as that.
Ive always said that hearing christians talk about satan and demons and exorcisms sounds so much like how my friends and i talk about like, Naruto and Dragon Ball. They're nerds, but worse. At least i know Naruto isnt a real thing HAHAHAH
At least one Gnostic text I've heard of (can't remember which one) claimed that the serpent was actually Jesus and that the OT God was the real bad guy for trying to keep knowledge from humans.
The nail in the coffin for my faith was that God felt the need to punish humanity for a serpent he definitely knew was there, for if he didn't, he's not an all powerful god at all
Yeah, I actually find the concept of the initial existence Adam and Eve had to be terrifying. Not knowing anything and being completely dependant on someone who’s so narcissistic and cruel to dictate everything for them. They couldn’t even start thinking for themselves without the serpent’s intervention. Terrifying.
@@hexmage806 Gnosticism is so interesting to me!!! I remember hearing an overview of something like what you said. If you happen to remember what text you read it in, please let me know as I would love to take an in depth look at it :)
I was always super obnoxious as a kid and would ask why Satan would torture you for doing what he wants, especially if he wants you to disobey god and if god wants him to torture us. I figured we'd be chill, bonding over a shared love of rock and roll
Yeah, there is something odd this. Near the beginning, some dude was going on about how Satan CHOOSES to be in hell. I thought hell was supposed to be a place of eternal torment? Yet, Satan seems pretty content there. How can that be? So now hell doesn't have to be a place of eternal torment? And once you make that concession, all of a sudden you open up possibilities like what you suggest: why would Satan torture me forever if I spend my life doing his bidding? Why wouldn't he just put me on the payroll and make me one of his minions? Kind of, would it be better to rule in hell than serve in heaven? In order to avoid this problem, they have to go with the "hell is eternal torture" line. But then they turn right around and act otherwise.
@@F1areonYeah, that's the point. It doesn't seem like Hell is torture for a guy who wanted to get away from god to begin with. I mean, I've heard some preachers say that "hell" is more of a separation from god. But people who don't the christian god or don't want to be around them they would never feel that need to joined at the hip of that crazy ole deity. I dunno, maybe it's the pastor's daddy issues creeping out, who knows?
A simple progression of the religion. Earlier versions of the Abrahamic religions included other gods, but slowly morphed into a "One God above" type of thing. By the time of Jesus's story was being spread, there was lots of questions regarding the supposed all powerful God. So Satan was introduced. He's not the first antagonist for a god, so it was accepted very easily and you were able to sweep a lot of inconsistencies to Satan by retconning older stories of the Bible, like Eve and Job. Not to mention, it had the added benefit of shitting on other religions by saying those religions were just planted by Satan. Hence why Satan is a mix of a lot different gods.
Dude, thank you for making these. They are entertaining and funny, but they really express how I felt/feel deconstructing. I wasn’t even the strongest Christian but these beliefs stick with you, it’s crazy. Thanks for the content.
Not sure if you've shared before, but if you're willing to (and comfortable with) would you spend an episode telling your deconversion story? How deep did you get into the church? What was the turning point, or what questions made you really take a second look at it all?
It's lowkey scary how many of them unconsciously (hopefully) refer to Satan as a person. Like their conceptualization of the devil is literally set up to associate with actual living persons to aim a religious canon of discourse at them
Satan is my fave literary figure and my personal mascot. I was told I was sinful for so many reasons I couldn't even help, I figured I'd just embrace it
@@BillCipherr12 In the Bible it's thanks to Satan that humans learned the difference between good and evil. He also didn't kill anyone unless Jesus made him do it, kind of like Batman.
@@EatHoneyBeeHappy humans already knew the difference, they knew disobeying God was evil but they still did it, and Jesus didnt make satan kill anybody
I've always had a couple questions. 1. If Satan is a liar and a trickster, how is anyone sure God is God and not another form of Satan? 2. When was Lucifer cast out of heaven? He was busy creating the world in 6 days, rested on the 7th, the next day or two Eve ate the apple. 3. Christianity, Judaism and Islam all worship the same God. Was each supposed to be a Bios update to the later? Was it supposed to be Windows, Apple and Linux?
Just commenting to say I appreciate y'all having subtitles on these more recent videos. it's a small thing but it matters a lot. Hope y'all have a good week!
A thing that most people don’t know is that Satan was not the ruler of hell to early Christians, that was added much later, the bible (Mostly Revelations since he appears the most there outside of Job), says that Satan will be cast into the lake of fire at the end of times. Hell is his prison, not his domain.
I'm not religious, but what I gathered from having to read pieces of the Bible for context for a literature class, Hell was ALWAYS his prison. It was his punishment, even in Paradise Lost, a work of fiction. But Milton loopholed Hell and decided Satan was going to rule his prison. And after taking that class, it's easy to see American Christians do not know where the actual Bible ends and Milton begins. They have those two different works interwoven. Which makes it even more confusing than it already was. Does not help that Milton's work was the foundation of American puritanism.
When I was younger, I went to a church camp one time. We learned at the end of the camp that each of the leaders were praying for some of the campers, and we got the time to talk to the person who had been praying for us. During that conversation, the person who had been praying for me told me that I would go to hell, since I wasn’t his preferred type of Christian at the time…. Your response to someone saying that you are going to hell is so great. I wish I had such a cool response to say back then 🤣😂🤣
Hearing Charles Stanley speak just unlocked a deep memory of me on a Sunday morning while waiting for my great grandmother to get ready for church I watched tv and she always told me to put on mr Stanley 😭
From a Christian perspective, your life is seen as part of God's purposeful creation, and you are endowed with free will, which brings moral responsibility (Psalm 139:13-16; Deuteronomy 30:19). God’s judgment reflects His perfect justice and holiness, ensuring moral order is maintained (Romans 2:6-8). Christianity offers peace through reconciliation with God, made possible by Jesus Christ’s sacrifice (John 14:27). This eternal perspective frames our earthly experiences, suggesting that even if we didn't choose our existence, our lives have meaningful purpose and the potential for peace and reconciliation with God (2 Corinthians 4:17-18).
@@studyackatherine1693 his perfect justice? It would be comical if it weren’t so sad. Quoting the Bible as doctrine and the base for an argument proves your inability to be reasoned with. You need more than wild fairytales to convince others of your point of view. But if it helps you, that’s great.
@@studyackatherine1693 But, if you use said free will, and don't beg Yahweh for forgiveness, you get barbecued forever. AKA coercion of the highest order. But I'm sure you don't ignore all the sins you commit and come up with selfish excuses of "That's mistranslated/ metaphor/ for a different audience." Like how the torturous murder of Yahweh's "innocent" son (who is also him) is totally required for Yahweh's forgiveness. So pretty much, you're benefiting either from a complete miscarriage of justice, as a innocent third party is not just murdered, but tortured, then murdered for your crime. Or, it's just a bad weekend, since Jesus comes back three days later, and the "sacrifice" has barely any element of giving anything up. So Jesus's death is nothing to be concerned about. Dude gave up his weekend for you. So which is it? Is the torture and murder of Jesus the ultimate sacrifice that is utterly immoral and a barbaric miscarriage of justice to benefit you? Or is it a slap on the wrist, as Jesus came back and has been living it up in the ultimate paradise in heaven ever since? And, you know what? This paradox is incredibly easy to solve, let alone for an all knowing, all powerful being. Yahweh can just forgive humanity. It's his own mental state, not the laws of physics. Unless he's such a petty narcissist that the idea of forgiving people who are 4,000 years removed from the terrible "crime" of doing exactly what they were programmed to do, is too much for his precious ego. So, basically, Yahweh could freaking forgive humanity, for something that's not their fault, that's 4,000 years in the past, when none of them were alive. But he's such a bloodthirsty monster he demands his own son, who he claims is "innocent" has to be tortured and murdered for his own sick amusement. The whole "sacrifice" at the heart of christianity is utter moral nonsense. If it is serious than it is an utter miscarriage of justice that all christians benefit from, and should disown. But almost all of its consequences are undone three days later, so really it's a slap on the wrist. And, the whole production is utterly pointless, unless Yahweh is an incredibly petty, bloodthirsty maniac who can't regulate his emotions without some living thing dying. And, after all this, he still says the "great sacrifice" counts for nothing if you swear one too many times. Or look at a woman lustfully. Or wear mixed fabrics. You're still going to hell anyway. It's an utter guilt trip that we can't verify at all, and, in Jesus' follower's own accounts- well, most of them, Mark just has him kick the bucket and not come back- it's turned into a farce in the other direction. So we have one gospel, where Jesus actually sacrifices his life for us, and three where he had a bad weekend. And all of them are utterly pointless in the first place, unless Yahweh has the emotional control of a toddler.
Honestly with how often deals with the devil/faustian bargains are depicted in media the fact that satan never appeared and tried to tempt me was one of the things that pushed me along my deconversion process
I once got completely sidetracked during a conversation with a Christian about the garden of Eden. I was trying to point out all the logical inconsistencies in the story, and I made the mistake of referring to the serpent as a "snake". All of my points were completely rejected the second I conflated "serpent" with "snake", as if that was all that mattered.
@@RedSunUnderParadisecorrect meanings of words make a massive difference in verbal communication. But to put all of that weight onto one point and ignore the other points was unfair and perhaps intellectually lazy... Very frustrating for the commenter.
It’s one thing to disregard an argument for using the wrong word if the word actually matters; like in a lot of anti-evolution arguments where they intentionally use wrong definitions of terms and say “it’s just a theory” because that actually matters for the argument. A snake and a serpent, it really doesn’t matter.
@@Woopor pardon me asking but what's the difference between "snake" and "serpent"? I always thought they were synonyms and serpent was just a fancy way of referring to a snake because in Spanish we just have the word "serpiente" to refer to them
I just got out of a John Milton literature class and am currently terrorizing everyone in the comments 😂😂😂😂😂 I said this to someone else: So much of what Christians think of Satan and Adam and Eve is Paradise Lost without ever reading it. They think what happened in that work happened in the Bible, even when it actually didn't. So, the depiction of Eve, Satan being the ruler of his own prison, etc. American Christians do not know where the actual Bible ends and Milton begins, and it doesn't help that his works were the foundation of American Puritanism. So like, "God's plan all along" and it's literally Paradise Lost, not Genesis. I did have to read the Bible for context so we could see what Milton altered to fit his views and what he kept (Adam and Eve's punishment is word for word).
i remember having to learn in my Bible studies that satan is not a cartoon devil. They were really *hell*-bent on trying to convince us that he's no joke despite the fact that it's just a meer cartoon.
The all knowing part is what gets me. He knows everything , he knows every choice you make, why will he do these things if he knows the path it’ll bring you down, he knows everything he knows how your life will play out. WHt is the point in testing you if he just knows the outcome it will bring? It’s so confusing to me. That’s what made me not believe in him, same with Satan when I was a kid and my friends brought me to church with them (my parents were atheists), and they would say these things I could be so confused as to why he made Satan when he knew what would happen, why would he not get rid of him? Why would he make him if he knew the outcome of that? I just, idk man it makes no logical sense to me at all. Those are the biggest things that just confused me. And why would he let horrible things happen to people especially children if he could stop it? Why not make that molester have a sudden heart attack?
im one of the rare kids raised by a fundamental pastor who never believed or bought into this stuff from an early age, so always fascinating to hear from ppl who escaped after truly believing. i think im very lucky to never have to deconstruct.
i'm one of the suckers who ate it all up and went to church with my aunts since i was a kid even though i didn't have to. my mom would bribe me with toys and restaurants to ditch church and hang out on sundays and i rarely took it. if it wasn't for all the nice memories of being with my aunts (and i suppose i should give some credit for my pretty kickass reading comprehension due to learning to read propaganda before kindergarten,) it is a complete waste of precious time.
@@robertoso8796 im sorry, but im glad to hear you have some good memories. my folks homeschooled us, but also had a heavy emphasis on reading since they wanted us to be able to read the bible very early. of my 3 other siblings, only 1 is still religious 🤷♂️
@@ryanoneal8480 considering the sick stuff that happens to some kids i'm glad my biggest complaints are simply that it was all so stupid and ungodly boring.
Same goes for me. My father is a pastor, both my siblings bought into the religion at first. I was always critical. I actually tried to believe at some point, but i came to the realisation that i can't believe in something so irrational and delusional. After some time my sister was searching answers and asked me about my perspective on things. Thats the story of how my sister started to deconstruct her faith. My brother and my parents are still christian. I think me and my sister are the most aware and truth-seeking individuals in our family who are not afraid of talking about inconvenient topics.
I grew up across the street from a Catholic church, but we never went. About the only impact it had on our lives was that they rang their damn bells too early in the morning and far far too loudly, waking up the godly and ungodly alike. My old man tried to talk to the priest about it, but the priest would brook no change in the ringing schedule as ordained by God and the bishops and the Pope. Eventually Pops mentioned it to Jane, a little old lady down the street who went to church religiously every Sunday. Jane was quite wealthy, and I assume that she tithed away with the best of them. Anyway, she had a word with the priest and subsequently the bells went on an hour later. Funny how God was ok with changing the schedule once a wealthy donor brought it up.
I love the apologetics bingo card. Pascal's Wager and LOOK AT THE TREES elicited an actual snide chortle from me. Please consider adding Cambrian Explosion to the list -- from personal experience it's obnoxiously common these days
One of my things when it comes to the Bible, (I’m a non practicing Catholic) is when you question people about it & you recite passages/verses. Some people got you with “ The Bible says even the devil will know scripture.” It’s like because I’m asking questions & reciting passages you can’t recall. You are referring to me as the devil?!?
Interesting, if God knows the beginning to the end, didn’t he know beforehand that Lucifer would rebel and get kicked out of heaven and become Satan? I always wondered that myself. I think we should blame the creator not the creation.
Isaiah 45:7 “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the lord do all these things.” Amos 3:6 “Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?” To paraphrase Spiderman, the _more power_ these infantile religious people assign to their imaginary friends, the _more culpable_ that makes them.
I'm part of a program to work more on my mental health but some of the staff openly looking for Satan everywhere makes me feel like I shouldn't or even can't open up to them, the fixation is so toxic
Oh no!! I’m so sorry you’re in that situation. I had a therapist who was super into the “woo.” I had to be really firm about not bringing the woo into our sessions- but I understand that’s not ideal. Good therapists know that therapy puts patients in a vulnerable place, and don’t make US draw the lines. I hope you can move your treatment to a more professional practice soon!
I was in a certain anonymous program for many similar reasons, and I was constantly told I couldn't stay sober without god. It almost made me give up because I just couldn't bring myself to believe in a supernatural being that could "save me from my wicked self"
It’s very dangerous to equate mental health issues, addiction, etc to spiritual warfare. I have anxiety and my mother in law brought a book to me which was a “how to” guide for exorcising myself of the demon of anxiety 🙄 They will blame everything on satan and/or demons. I deal with it in my family but thankfully I know better and I don’t believe that way and so I pick and choose what I say to them or talk about to spare myself from their sermons. I’d find a more secular group if I were you 🥺 it may not be that easy but I hope it will work out for you!
@@turquoisebeachchair7454 I am! I am still sober now, 7 years later! I had to leave that program and I decided to follow the scientific research for recovery and treating my underlying mental health issues with medication and therapy designed to help me cope without using substances. I will still never consider myself "cured" but I have a substantial remission and a strong support network.
I have always felt that this figure has been used to excuse away so many things, behaviors and experiences. It's such an "interesting" concept used to manipulate, and control. Then they wonder why people experience spiritual psychosis!
I enjoy your content. As a recovering Christian, I think I just need to move on. But all of the Christianity is in my foundation and I need to reexamine it all. I'm binging watching your channel and it's blowing my mind. I can't believe I once believe this. Smh THANK YOU FOR SHARING
"God wants us to not sin, but he doesn't want us to be robots, But also one day we'll be in heaven and we won't be able to sin. Even though Lucifer was in heaven and he was able to sin. He wants us to freely choose him or he'll punish us. We have to worship him on our own, but als one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess." 37:37 this is honestly just such a great summary of christian apologetics, well done
I recall getting yelled at as kid in youth group when I said heaven sounds like the worst form of torture why would anyone want that at least let me play nintendo or something (80s kid btw)
Charles Stanley: "The devil's a liar, he's a deceiver. He will cheat you, deceive you any way he can to get you to follow him rather than Jesus..." The irony of televangelists saying this kind of statement
I dunno if this is the place to ask questions, but I'm loving this series so much, thank you. I have some specific questions and I dunno if they’ve been answered. 1. Are you more focused on a sect of Christianity, a main idea(like fundamentalism” ), or the overall religion? 2. What is your history in the church? I've heard you talk about some of your experiences being you're a pastor and everything but I do think I have your whole story 3. What's your cats name? Sorry if that's a lot or too heavy but I'm genuinely loving this series. Please keep this up. ❤
Hey I'm not Pastor Belief it or Not but I've been watching their content for a minute and I think I can offer some insight on the first question. Their channel seems more focused on fundamentalism and deconstruction. Deconstruction and the fallout it can have on someone along with the processes of what you have to deconstruct are the main focus of these video essays. Videos essays with deconstruction without a specific church: The true church, Sin, most of the 7 deadly sins arc, and the video we're both commenting on. The side focus is the harm fundamentalism brings about. Examples of this are found in: Purity culture, the gluttony video, church and the single person, mission trips. The podcast has much more focused content on specific pastors and churches if that's more your style. It's also much more personable including Trevor and their co-host talking about experiences with the church.
Ibliss made an agreement with God, as he was destined to go to hell, his mission was to get the most people possible to also go to hell, so that he doesn't stay alone, and to prove to God that he was indeed superior to Adam.
@@minestar2247 Why would God agree to that in the first place. You're the one who did the bad thing. You're the one who has to go to jail as punishment. Would it make sense for you, having murdered someone, to go to the judge who condemned you to life in prison and go "Okay, but just so I won't be alone, let me see if I can convince my children and my wife to kill people too, so they can come to prison with me"? And if the judge you're talking to truly loves every single human being - he loves you, but he also loves your wife and your children - then why would he allow you to cut short their lives and their freedom just to alleviate the sentence he gave you for a crime you committed? Is being in prison not supposed to be a punishment?
I have a thought. What if the story of Adam and Eve is not actually about the fall of humanity. What if the story is about growing up and loosing innocence? Seeing the world as grown ups for the first time as roles of society are reaveled and how ugly the world could be?
Thats a really interesting thought. Also under the aspect of being naked, children arent ashamed of their bodys and usually dont have a problem running around naked, but grown ups do. Just like Adam and Eve after eating the apple
@@GamesAreMyDrugs Exactly. So inherently "knowledge" might not be sin or evil or whatever. It might just be the passage of time when a child grow up to be a teen and then an adult. Like their world is described as beautiful and fantastical. They can't return to Eden since it's their childhood.
There is a hypothesis i saw once that the eden story is about a inexperienced, childlike god setting up a flawed playground and throwing a tantrum when it falls apart
Always assumed that is exactly what it was about. And have you thought about the psychology of religion? As kids, we see our parents as all knowing, all powerful, and they love us unconditionally. Then as we get older, we realize our parents have limits, and they are getting older and will die one day. But we get taught about a god who is our Heavenly Father who is timeless and always loves us and is all knowing, all powerful, and always by our side. That story fits a desperate need within many of us, and the idea that life is eternal and we will meet our relatives again is so appealing. God is also a convenient baby sitter, rather like Santa Claus, always watching us when our parents cannot do so 24/7. Anyway, religions are just memes that have evolved to fit deep psychological needs. And lots of people get so brainwashed with it at a young age that they cannot process that it might just all be stories.
The free will robot objection has always baffled me cause the reason why anyone would think that’s a bad thing is because they already have free will and if they didn’t they they wouldn’t even perceive it being bad if they never had it missing and out there from the beginning in the first place.
I like how the serpent is described as "slithering", but it then is cursed to crawl on it's belly. The timeline doesn't match up. If it already slithered, then how would that be any kind of curse? It never mentions what the precurse mode of movement was either, to make slithering such a terrible thing by comparison... So I like to imagine a serpent that flies, with bat and bird wings.
I figure that snakes were originally more like lizards. They still slithered, but they had legs, and God took those away. The Bible is plenty of fun if you read its stories like any other set of fables. "God told them to behave, but the snake tricked them into goofing off, so God kicked us out of the garden and cursed the snake. And that's why snakes don't have legs!"
Love love love Lucifer! He actually made a comment on the show about the "one million moms" coming after him. But heres a story for you. I asked for the Lucifer series on dvd and the Outlander series on dvd for christmas. My father who is a preacher, choose to get me Outlander over Lucifer cause it was Lucifer. If you have seen Outlander, you know how spicy scenes can get. So my father chose to get me soft core porn essentially, to a show with the devil in it. Also...ive cut off my toxic father. Yet he has my brother in his grasp so bad that my brother blames me for my fathers victim mentality. Thats christianity for you.
15:55 I can’t imagine being the parent in the crowd with the child crying while the pastor is going on about the Devil’s subterfuge and selection of minions 😂😂😭
When I was a Christian, I believed that there was 24/7 spiritual warfare, and I believed that Satan was trying to tempt me all the time, in order to get me to slip up. The thing is - if Satan was trying to tempt me, then that means that he also was trying to tempt every one else on the planet…. That sounds like so much work. Would Satan get any free time? Would he be able to take at least one day off each week? 🤣😂
The line, "We don't know a whole lot about it" sums up the amount of actual research evangelicals and Right Wingers do into a subject they have a beef with.
Every time I hear Christians talk about how the devil appears in a form that will appeal to the masses, my first thought is: "So he appears in wings and a halo? Maybe he writes an ambiguous book that can be used to justify anything?"
IF I believed in Satan, I would easily believe that the torah, bible and qur'an were from him.
Think about it; what kind of character wants to be worshipped? A mature, secure, holy, calm, caring, godlike character, or an insecure, immature, narcissistic, sadistic, petty character?
What kind of character is so illogical as to base saving people on their beliefs, rather than what kind of people they actually are, and, in many of these belief systems, is supposed to torture unbelievers for eternity? All round these "gods" sound pretty Satanic to me.
IF I believed in Satan, I would believe that they've ALL been conned by him, rather than being conned by sneaky, corrupt humans, which is the case.
I've often asked religious people what makes them so arrogant that they are so convinced that they couldn't be fooled by a multi-millennia old Uber-Angel?
In "The Usual Suspects" there's the line, "the greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist", but, IF he did exist, then what greater trick than to convince the world to worship him as "god", and build temples, synagogues, cathedrals and mosques to his “glory”???
Lol, “in a form that will appeal to the masses” makes me think about Trump. 😂
Well this is one of the gnostic ideas, that the god of the bible (especially the old testament) was a false god drawing people away from the true god.
@@pansepot1490yeah, I'm pretty sure the devil is supposed to be attractive...
Satan easily is just the editor of the Bible, there is enough manipulation in that alone.
What better form to take than a holy book that survives fires 😆
Learning the origins of Satan was one of the biggest keys to my deconversion. Once you realize that the character of the Devil is made up to fit whatever evil niches the situation calls for, after having been stripped of his initial role of Yahweh's left-hand guy because of Dante's fan-fiction, it really starts to fall apart fast.
Precisely, it's all made up to fit the narrative of what people believe.
Even when I was a Christian I never believed in Satan.
Me too along with the history on how Christianity came to be and that they borrow a lot of the stories from the Bible from other religions.
Satan and Santa have much in common.😂
There's a reason why I stopped believing in a devil loooooong before I stopped believing in a god.
after wasting 20 years going to church three times a week i finally understood why satan stared at earth from heaven and was like "stick it up your ass boss, i quit."
😂😂
When I think about all that wasted time… beautiful summer Sunday evenings spent sitting in a church… It’s a crime.
Yeah, or more of like a prometheus type character. Theres even removed books that show fallen angels teaching us agriculture.
screw u i quyti
Christians: “Satan doesn’t have red skin and horns! He’s a tempter!”
Fox: **launches a sexy Lucifer show**
Christians: “wait! No! Not like that!”
Not to mention that Lucifer literally translates as 'Bringer of Light', which hardly sounds like the incarnation of some ultimate evil. He was supposed to be the greatest of the angels before he 'rebelled' and got cast out of heaven.
The frequent depiction of him as having goat's legs and horns is interesting to me because it's reminiscent of the Greek god Pan, a nature deity. And he's not even the only example of a horned god, merely the best-known, as horns symbolised sacred power in many older religions.
@@diarmuidkuhle8181Well I mean Innocent the 3rd burned down Constantinople… so the name thing doesn’t always reflect future actions… also it’s earily similar to “shining being” which put together literally meant snake.
@@diarmuidkuhle8181it’s because half the New Testament plagiarises the ars goetia. So when there’s a bunch of random name dropped demons some people assume they are all the same thing. ( now assuming the bible is true do you think god would randomly use ambiguous terms for the same person? No, clearly they are different)
Pretty sure almost every demon and demonic possession is just straight up stolen from the ars goetia
Vivziepop did it the best with her Lucifer lol
I was asked as a teen to make a list of things that I wanted god to forgive me or things I wanted him to forgive for others and I put down Satan because I thought if he forgave Satan, things would be better. My youth group pastor just laugh at me and told me he's not going to do that.
Depends on the particular Xtian denomination. Some Protestant sects believe that even Satan will be forgiven and return to God (and, presumably, be restored to his original angelic nature) at the end of days.
What's always annoyed me is that while he's depicted as the 'great enemy', in the scenes (few enough) where he's explicitly interacting with people in the bible, God either permits him to do what he does or has explicitly appointed him to do what he does. After all, Satan is only yet another one of God's creatures. But then that'd be asking for logical consistency in the most self-contradictory book of nonsense ever written.
@@diarmuidkuhle8181also, in most renditions of pop culture, satan is the punisher of the evil. Doesnt sound that evil to me.
Ever since I read the Koran and heard there version of satan I thought the same thing. In that book Satan did not want to worship a lesser being. Even though God told him to, he refused because of pride. I still wonder if Satan really is Gods left hand or is the one the seat on His left hand is prepared for. What is love, or faith if it has not been tested or tempted. It is easy to play along when you can plainly see the truth and know everything. It had to be someone people would really believe was capable of it. The highest mission , to give up everything, his title, beauty and power for God. To be His adversary, to glorify His name.
Your youth pastor was an idiot. Since my youth I had learned on my own that true good and evil boils down to service to self or service to others. By this perspective you can truly discern the satanic principle involved. Actions and Intentions, not Sunday School caricatures.
@@diarmuidkuhle8181 Satan's separation was only in his mind and choices. God is all. There is no separation.
"I'm just a simple bible believer" I love how so many Christians try to make themselves seem so peaceful/timid while at the same time actively stomping over anyone else who disagrees with them.
Do what makes you happy 😊 Within reason. 😁😄😃😀
They cant even agree to which bible is correct or who is correct in following the bible, Jews only like old testament, while catholics want both, but a plus of their own rules, protestants were first to say "No we are TRUE bible believers", while ortodox chill by the side and say they are the ones following "Gods intentions", and then about milion sects in America who knows and loves God the best
I told a Christian I used to be Hindu and they just shat all over the people of India with glee, for having the audacity to believe in the wrong things. Utterly absurd.
@@hackman669unless it involves lobster because if you eat lobster your going to *HELL*
@@hackman669Isnt Reason the enemy of faith?
It's funny how it's always been told that we cannot comprehend God's love or choices, yet these men are able to understand, decipher, and teach God's words and reasonings
The holy spirit is there to help us.
@@razoredge6130 That doesn't make any sense. You don't need to be imbued with some special power to understand when the subject in question could just *literally speak inside everyone's head at the same time with an undeniable presence in whatever form they comprehend* . If ANY of these people were actually right, there wouldn't be so very many disagreements from within even on the fundamentals. Hell, the trinity isn't even a settled matter in the broader Christian narrative. A lot of them consider the trinity to be a blasphemous and evil false idol created by men.
@@kylegonewildThey don't the holy spirit. Many consider themselves to be Christian is different from being actually Christian. That's why there's "disagreements".
You can't understand the bible without the holy spirit.
@@razoredge6130 "actually Christian" 😆
@@leeswift7883 yes and you have no rebuttal
Also, as a snake owner, hearing preachers go on about how cunning and vile the serpent was is too funny.
Snakes are goofy clumsy creatures that struggle to make it in this crazy world just like the rest of us.
exactly lol snakes actually remind me a lot of bugs behavior wise, they're timid but once you get them on your arm they're more curious and kinda just treat you like a tree branch. they're such cute little dumb babies, it blows my mind how much humans like to assign malicious intent to anyone but themselves...
Snakes are derpy and spend most of their time lazily conserving energy.
It's cute how they stick out their tongue to figure out things. And it's cool that the internet has given them names like snek or danger noodle.
@@HotDogTimeMachine385nope rope is my favorite
Ah, but the original serpent had legs, so maybe it got dumber after the Fall (which, of course, never happened, because most of the bible is myths and legends)?
Yeah, my little ball python barely has 2 brain cells to rub together. He's such a derp, he's scared of his own food. How these guys survive in the African jungle is beyond me.
Only time I ever got bit was trying to feed him and he got so scared and overwhelmed by the situation he struck. Didn't even break skin, he was bluffing with his mouth closed. More like aggressive boops.
“Searching for the truth should never endanger the truth.” -Trevor Poelman
some people would say that's a hell of a quote...
Growing up in a very strict Christian background and eventually being kicked out at 18 for being gay, I’ve been deconstructing my faith since I was probably about 14. Now ten years later my sister is having the same issues I did when I was younger and still living with my parents. I’m hoping I can be a safe place for her to land if things get bad, cuz lord knows I needed that when I first left . Thank you for all you do and the work you put in these videos . It helps in more ways than you can imagine
im so sorry you had to go through that. your sister is lucky to have someone like you.
Take care of yourself and her, hopefully there will be better times ahead.
your parents need god, and not the biblically accurate one.
As they say, there’s no hate like Christian love. Be the person for your sister you wish you would have had ten years ago.
Yeah, Im 14 and I am currently deconstructing my faith too. When I was younger I used to believe in God and Jesus, but sooner I saw the problems with Christianity and left. Im still going to church with my mom, but I don't believe whatever they say.
"I have a lot of friends who really like the show Lucifer, but I could never really get into it. I just can't get past the fantasy element of there being good cops"
I'm deceased
I was walking my dog and almost dropped the leash. 😂
yeah that was a pretty stupid thing to say
Its alright
My laugh at that startled my snoozing foster doggo 😅
@gz3kc wtf how am I right-wing? (aside from that I don't live in the US and your political spectrum doesn't apply to me)
I didn't know the two time world martial arts champion Mr. Satan was canon to the bibleverse
Mr. Satan is the Hebrew translation. Hercule is the king James translation
Mr.satan's son-in-law is bibleman
His daughter, Videl, has an interesting anagram for a name. 😅
It’s a canon event !
@@Purpleturtlehurtleryeah, pretty much
As a person who used to be a practicing Jewish woman, these videos always serve as an interesting look into the ways Christianity took Jewish beliefs and used fear to make them more forceful, rather than the way it used to be.
The Torah was written to be interpreted in the times it’s read in. It’s not uncommon, even to this day, for there to be consistent debates about what any particular line may be saying. Not to mention that Hell didn’t exist before the Christians wrote the Bible
this~~~~~
hell was created during the Roman times where things like the underworld and a punishing afterlife were more common. Judaism is so much more chill and Christianity is basically it's paganized version.
Is hell in the Torah?
@@Cleifairy No, hell is never mentioned anywhere in the Torah or the Pentateuch for that matter.
@@kennethwoody5897I mean, the closest analogue would be Sheol, but is considered tamer than the other depictions of nasty afterlives in Abrahamic religions.
@@kennethwoody5897 wtf and everytime I go to church they're always screaming about hell fire? the shit gave me ptsd.
"Can't get over the fantasy elements of there being good cops" I love you, man. That was beautifully written and timed.
Yeah this came out of left field to me, but I absolutely loved it.
😂😂😂 good cops, magician living in the clouds that can make everything warm and fuzzy (if you fear the church and doctrine enough)
Just thought I’d let you know that I’m a Canadian Pastor and I find your videos very insightful. I am almost finished a series on the seven deadly sins and I treated your videos as great instructions on things to avoid.
I know you have shared bits and pieces of your journey out of the Christian faith and I appreciate your openness. I’m glad you have found a creative and useful way to engage with your past experiences and create something positive.
Some of of what you say I find very funny and some of it stings, but it’s all been good to listen too.
Interesting. I guess, it checks out.
Instead of actually telling people what's in the book, you learn about "what alienates people" when you tell to them so you can avoid alienating the public by not giving them the bits that make them question.
@@MikshvertThat’s not quite what I meant. I hope everyone who listens to me questions their beliefs all the time and everything I tell them. No one should take my word solely when they are thinking about what kind of faith (if any) they have or what they believe about X.
I meant many of these videos point out blind spots of where something can be said that is hurtful or judgmental that I might miss because it is such a common turn of phrase for many Christians.
The videos on Greed, Sloth, and Wrath really helped me think through principles of rest, and a reminder of the value of anger and making sure people have the safe space to feel and express their emotions, and to really make sure I don’t make people feel bad for rightly wanting fair wages and time off.
Aw, this is amazing! I grew up in an actually really positive and loving and socially active Christian church. I'm now agnostic, but I still wonder about God all the time and hold a lot of love for the church as I knew it growing up. It gives me a lot of joy to see people of any religion practicing their faith in a truly healthy and uplifting way.
(I too enjoy these breakdown videos, though they mostly don't look like what I heard as a child and youth it's good to know what's said out there in the broader Christian spaces and likely affecting people I know and have been in community with)
If you embrace Satan-you burn in hell
if you dont care about him-still hell
if you believe in God,but not in the right way-still hell
christian pastor: we are born to win
💀💀💀
Me breathing air- burn in hell
Believe it or not, jail
If you're a decent person but don't believe in god: Hell
If you're a serial killer, but you retire and embrace Jesus: Salvation
@@chromebison5900EXACTLY! THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED!
@@chromebison5900 one religious person once implied that people with good and pure intentions go to hell, as "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" , according to him you don't have to be a good person and even good people deserve going to hell, just for believing the "wrong" way.
No need to tell you how disgusted I'm by religious narcissists ever since then 🤦
I grew up up with a mother who got offended and saw Satan in everything. Now as an adult who has moved out from both that environment and Christianity, not only am I an athiest - but one of my favorite shows is a show that has The Devil as a literal cartoon character. You eventually learn to stop taking him seriously when you realize that he's used constantly as a way to avoid accountability and dehumanize others.
edit: spelling is hard
Which show is it? The cuphead show?
Bobby Boucher, is that you? "That fools ball is the Devil!"
@bestaround3323 Yeah, it's The Cuphead Show.
For me it's Lucy, Daughter of the Devil and The Devil is a Part-Timer. Those are hilarious.
@@yeeyeeyeeyeso incredibly epic. Fellow Cuphead enjoyers☕🍵
when I developed POTS and quickly ended up needing a wheelchair to get around, my former pastor told me Satan was making me sick because I love horror movies. "do you want to be in that chair forever?" like dude. Satan didn't make me sick. that's weird.
So sorry to hear that.
That sort of abusive shit should be illegal.
What does POTS stand for?
A church elder heavily implied my seizure disorder was caused by sin in my life (I was getting approval to bring my new alert dog to service). No, a-hole, my seizures were caused by my VERY RELIGIOUS beating me senseless so many times that I ended up with permanent damage. But thanks for your input…..
@@johnoconnell5004postural orthostatic tachycardia system- very basically, your blood doesn’t distribute through your body like it should which can make you really sick, faint a lot, etc.
"Satan put me in a wheel and God put you in a maiden dress. I'll gladly roll like Stephen Hawking if you care"
Please never stop making this type of content. It’s so helpful for me, as I continue working through my religious trauma. You’re truly doing the Lord (Farquaad)‘s work.
That Lord (Farquadd) took me out
I grew up in an abusive household where neither parent was 100% safe. I think this is why I hated going to church and bible studies. Because every person I met, and the God they preached about, was just as abusive as my parents. And even as a child, some part of me knew that.
I'm so sorry for you My growing up
experience with Christianity was very
positive, when I was in grade school,
I knew a fellow student who encouraged me to go to a Good News
club, where I was taught the basics of
the faith My church where I became a
believer was very good, we had many
services and I couldn't wait to go In
my life, I have been through many
dark places, but God has always come to my rescue, healing for mental
distress as well as physical I can't
fully explain why I went through but
I never turned my back on Jesus and
now that I'm in the last laps of this
race, I am looking forward to seeing
Jesus face to face and enjoying eternal life, I wouldn't trade anything
in this current state for Jesus it's not
worth trading I hope you reconsider
Christianity there really is nothing
worth being apart from God
I wish I could believe in fairy tales. The crutch of religion seems nice.
@@cathy7382drink that kool-Aid!!
@@robzielke9989 I'm not sure what you are
eluding to maybe Jim Jones? I'm looking
forward to being with Jesus for eternity and
those who will be there God's going to throw
us a huge party and serve us delicious food
And I'll be able to enjoy many activities that
I didn't have time for and rule and reign for
ever What are you looking forward to?
@@cathy7382 😂😂😂 cookies and warm milk waiting for you!!! Good stuff!
The saying means “don’t challenge anything, conform and follow blindly”
Not surprising you made a cult reference. Fitting
What am I looking forward to? I look forward to every day. I look forward to helping those in need, not because I fear a lil red guy with a pitchfork, or a magician sitting in the clouds. I look forward to leaving this rock better than I found it. Enjoy your magical party after death though.
If we can't judge God by human standards to be evil, how is it that we can judge him by human standards to be good?
That's just it we're not supposed to. We're just supposed to accept it on faith that anything God does is good. That's one of the reasons I left. I realized that they actually thought anything could be good if God did it
Its like a mental short circuit trying to divide by zero
God is good
Whatever God does is good
God made Satan
So Satan is good
All things bad are Satan
God made all bad things
All bad things are good
God wins
Man loves winners
Man loves God
Man builds robots
God has the love of mankind and robots
God's plan is complete
@@doodleprophetGod is good. Satan is bad. But it's a good thing that God made Satan (with all his badness) so Jesus could defeat Satan and be glorified so that Jesus could impress himself (since Jesus is God).
Well said.......
God is basically cthulhu
My parents are wonderful and never pushed religion on me, but my grandparents are hardcore Christians. When I was young I would spend holidays at my grandparents place, and they would teach me about Christianity, take me to church, watch biblical movies, etc. I was a curious and trusting child, I asked plenty of questions and believed every answer they gave me. I remember the day they finally told me about hell, that believers got to go to heaven, and those who didn't believe would suffer for all of eternity. I broke down screaming and crying at the dinner table, realizing that almost nobody I knew was Christian, not my wonderful friends, my younger sister, or even my own fucking parents.
I'd just been told that god was going to let them all burn in an eternal hellfire for the rest of time if they didn't convert. What's more, that was the straw that finally made me begin to question god. I questioned why such a perfect being would let this happen to wonderful people all around the world, just for not believing in him. If believing in him was so important, why couldn't he send clearer signs? Leave no room for doubt, so all those people would be saved? Then the panic set in, because if I questioned god's existence, I would meet the same fate. I began begging my grandparents to convince me, told them I had doubts but I really really wanted to believe. So they took me to church, they brought me to see a pastor who counselled me and gave me little pamphlets and books titled things like 'Jesus for Sceptics'. I read them all, I tried so hard, but it just wasn't working. The doubt wouldn't go away and I was terrified. I remember that's when I began to pray. I told God how desperately I wanted to trusted him, but I just needed some kind of concrete sign. I asked him for help, to speak to me, to give me even the slightest whisper so I could rid myself of this doubt and finally dedicate my heart to him. I begged him to at least spare my friends and family when they died, to let us live together in heaven, that I didn't want to be all alone in the afterlife while everyone I loved suffered. He never responded, I mustn't've believed hard enough. I was damned. I thought a lot of things in that time. I figured that life didn't matter, because 80 years on earth was nothing compared to the eternity that came after. I remember wishing I'd died as a toddler, because grandma told me when newborns died they got a free ticket to heaven since they died pure. I wanted to convert my friends and family, I wanted to save them so badly. I wanted to save all the people around the world, all the wonderful people who were going to suffer forever because they were unlucky enough to be born into the wrong religion.
This was such a long time ago that I don't remember what exactly pulled me out of it, but I distinctly remember the phrase 'nobody knows exactly what happens after we die'. I don't know if it was a scene from a show, or my own parents speaking to me. Someone was explaining that everybody has their own theories, everyone believes different things, but nobody knows for sure. I'm an atheist now, but I'm still open to having my mind changed. If god finally comes right out and sends me some divine message saying he was real all along and explaining himself, then I'll believe he exists. Excruciating fear was the only thing that came close to converting me. The fear factor works wonders, especially on little kids. I think that time fucked me up more than I'd like to admit, because I vaguely remember mentioning it to a therapist when he asked when my hair-pulling disorder started, a disorder I've been stuck with to this day.
Oh and to this day my grandparents still believe all those pamphlets successfully converted me. I don't have the heart or courage to tell them they drove me far away from religion. I wonder if it gives them peace of mind, believing they'll get to see me in heaven, even when their own son won't be joining them. They love my dad so much that I wonder if being around him ever brings them pain. How agonizing must it be to look at your own family members and know they'll suffer eternal hellfire when their lives are over? I wonder if they feel a sense of duty to convert me and my sister, that they need to save us while we still can be saved. I felt that very strongly when I first learned of hell. I wanted to convert every person in the world, I wanted to save everyone I could from that unfair fate. Holy shit this comment got long. My parents are wonderful (I love them very much) and my grandparents live far away so my negative experiences with religion are rather insignificant compared to people who are stuck in a very religious environment their whole lives. My heart goes out to those who are deconstructing believes that've been so thoroughly engrained in them. ❤
Hmmm, satan is actually someone all nice and convincing, eh ? That was child abuse. Please don't continue the abuse by even touching your hair, that lets the devil win (wink!).
Confess this with all of your heart, body, and mind and you will saved, “I believe in my heart that God raised Jesus from the dead; I confess with my mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord of my life.”
If you’re not yet born again, you can do this right away by praying this prayer: “Lord Jesus, I ask that you come into my heart and be the Lord of my life from this day forward. I confess with my mouth that you are Lord of my life, and believe in my heart that God raised you from the dead; therefore I declare that I am saved.”
Keep saying it with all of your heart, body, and mind until you know.
What a heartwarming, terrible tale. I could have been good friends with the kid you, we would have had so much to talk about!
Christians: "the devil is not a cartoon character."
Also Christians: proceeds to panic over pokemon.
Talk about not knowing how to pick your battles. But cool it will send em our way that much sooner.
My friend wasn't allowed to play Pokémon or Magic: The Gathering for this exact reason. His mom is very yikes
Suckered, got to ketch them all!😄😃😀
@@sentientplant9658 when I was young I had a big deck of pokemon cards that I got from all my friends. But my mom got caught up in all the anti pokemon stuff that was going on at the time. She took all the card and burned them. She did that to a lot of my stuff that she didn't like. All because she thought it would let demons into house, and somehow I'm the one who doesn't understand reality.
My friend shared his story about how his mom invited a priest over to their house and that priest burnt all his Pokemon cards, games, and any Pokemon merch right in front of him. He said he'll never forgive him his mom for that and who could blame him
This honestly makes me want to see the Bible from Lucifer's perspective.
I could definitely see him being the perfect and wise angel that God made him, then seeing how it's a "love and obey me or go to hell forever, you totally have free will and a choice" (as if he's not basically putting a gun up to your head) situation for us, tried to take it upon himself to do it better. But God being insecure removing him and making Lucifer the bad guy. God goes on his controversy of thou shalt not murder but murder these people for me, love thy neighbor as thyself but also separate yourselves from the nonbelievers cause they'll corrupt you... Old testament God being mad...
Jesus fasts for the 40 days, Lucifer sees he's starving and tries to get him to eat cause bro that's not good, tries to help him get off the mountain quickly, tries to make a deal with him so he doesn't have to suffer the way God wants him to...
Feels interesting enough
oooh thats a cool story idea!!
Ive alway wondered a certian question about his rebellion. What if God lied about why he rebelled? What if it wasn't a rebellion but a purge of those who could challenge him? Or what if the Christian god wasn't the original creator but rather a usurper?
I keep thinking more and more that if these beings did exist, Lucifer was justified completely.
The devil appears as an angel of light
He seems to have powerful deceptive
attraction
@@cathy7382Just when you could know. He is very crafty but there is nothing good left in him God took everything away when he wanted His Throne and made him Prince of Darkness and Ruler of it in another words Satan lost his free will
I've read a book that portrays Lucifer like that, of course he's also a romantic interest. It's from a 47 part long Norwegian book series written in the 80s (the Lucifer story is only one of the books).
Watching all these preachers in a row in these videos really makes it clear to me how they always speak in a way that’s way more focused on sounding persuasive than the average speaker. They’re always yelling or speaking in a hypnotic rhythm
I have always felt that all of the innocent people and animals killed to test job were the true victims in the story.
I feel that too. Even as a former Christian , I would be told “but god blessed Job 10x as much and gave him a new family!”
And I was like “but how does that make it ok that his other wife and children were purposefully slaughtered???”
And of course, as a response to that question, I would just be scolded for questioning god lol.
I feel that way about all those innocent babies that got slaughtered both in the Old and New Testament. Both Moses and Jesus were spared by God by having them go into hiding until the heat's off. But it still bothers me. Why did God allow all those other babies to be slaughtered by the Pharoah and Herod?
They were just property, yanno. Wife and kids break, you buy new ones.
Like god sending an angel to murder all the Egyptian’s first born children for a decision the Pharaoh was making?
And they all died become someone challenged God, and instead of using his all powerful wisdom to determine the answer, he accepted the bet just to prove a point. A man's family was murdered for bragging rights
I’ve been deconstructing for years now and sometimes I still feel some sort of guilt when watching certain shows (or more recently: buying a poster with the horned god on it). Literally everything was considered evil or demonic when I grew up, which caused me to miss out on a lot. Even to the point where I wasn’t allowed to use a certain school book. Why you ask? Because in front of every question there was a crystal ball (it actually was a light bulb and was used as an information sign) and my mom believed my teacher wanted us to dabble in fortune telling. So I had to be separated from the entire class when they used that particular book. It was embarrassing as hell and the story of my life.
My mother wouldn’t let me learn about evolution and had to sit in the hallway so I feel you.
@@carolinemaybe Damn, you just unlocked another memory🤣. It was the absolute worst, especially when you’re a kid: you want to fit in so bad, but that just didn’t seem to matter.
I'm so sorry for you and anyone who's had similar experiences
I feel you on this. I wasn’t allowed to participate in certain things or watch certain movies. I had to skip school in high school, not to go smoke pot or drink alcohol or other things parents think their teenagers are doing when they skip school, no. I skipped school to go to my best friends house to have a Harry Potter marathon. I HAD to see it. My mom blamed poor little Harry for everything, including but not limited to, school shootings even! My sisters also f’d around and found out when they were severely punished for a whole month for watching MTV. An episode of the real world.
@@CaitofFate Thank you so much. I’m just happy I eventually learned to think for myself🌸
It's always funny to hear people talk about how evil Satan is even though in the Bible itself, God had killed more people. Not to mention sending half of humanity to burn in Hell for eternity in the End Times.
Not forgetting that god lies, Satan never does.
@@pineapplepenumbragod literally says in the bible that he's the source of both truth *and* lies, good *and* evil. Every time a Christian says god is all good, they're calling it a liar
@@Gloomdrakewell, I mean, they aren't WRONG!
And I thought the American prison system threw people away
Atheists have such a ridiculously surface level understanding of religious morality and morality in general that "death bad" sounds about right.
Would you ever do an episode on the “non-canon” books of the Bible, and how the church left those books out to attempt to make it more believable and follow a more concrete narrative?
I found out about the lost books of the Bible, such as the gospel of Judas, and it’s honestly really interesting because it further confirms that the god Christians worship was evil, narcissistic, and not all-powerful. His original name, Saklas, even roughly translates to Fool.
Oh yeah! I watched one of Genetically Modified Skeptic's videos about that topic and it just changed my worldview about the Bible.
“Searching for the truth, should never endanger the truth.” I need this on a shirt.
Something that I keep thinking about when it comes to Lucifer: If God made us & the angels with free will then why did he banish Lucifer because he didn't want to obey God? Think of it like this: Our parents created us but that doesn't mean we have to spend our entire life obeying them without ever being allowed to question them or doing things that they don't want us to. As we get older we hopefully get to choose what we want to do with our lives regardless of if our parents like it or not. Now how is that different from Lucifer? Why do the angels & by extension humans have to always obey God just because he created them & get punished if they don't? It makes u wonder why we were given free will in the first place if God wants us to obey him for all eternity
Why do you think the fundie parents are often the ones who think they own their children, even as adults? They genuinely think they do, and thus god owns them by the same logic
@@izzyj.1079true
Clearly God gave Satan a high spot in heaven and it was good, Satan was given knowledge and power. But Satan didn’t question God he led a full blown attack while rounding up 1/3 of angels as well.
@@BillCipherr12why did god make his most rebellious angel have such a high position then? Why make him rebellious at all?
@@Woopor Hmmm. Maybe because he chose to be rebellious? I really don't know.
It's real convenient how when Christians mention the serpent in the garden of Eden, they're quick to conclude that the snake is Satan. Yet when Cain kills his brother Abel in the next story, Satan isn't blamed for it and Cain is just considered an evil man who killed his brother of his own free will, he wasn't tempted by some outside force just his own pride and envy. Reeeaaalll convenient 🧐
Worse is that "god" let Cain walk around afterwards (protected from being killed even) ...why ? Was it so Cain's spawn was going to be sooo bad that "god" would drown almost every living creature except seven people ? Where one of them was a drunk ?
Stupid is as stupid is written.
Fun fact (but not really) one time I realized "wait, what if the devil wanted to be a snake in the garden of eden just to see how it was, jokingly told adam and eve to eat the apple thinking they couldn't be that dumb, and then they fucking did anyway because their iq was 0?" Effectively turning the entire story into "unfortunately, humans were, and still are, stupid beyond even gods reckoning"
I blame Yaweh for loving the smell of BBQ so much that he outright snubbed Caine.
@@AnnoyingNewslettersI really don’t like the fact this is fully true
I mean…… shhhhhh
The "couldnt get past the fantasy element that there are good cops" got me. Earned a subscribe. That is a fun show though.
Some cops are good. Big city, more crime, more corruption. 😁😄😃😀👿👺🤡
The pause he did was perfect, I even started to think about the fantasy parts of the show and how unrealistic they were, then he said "good cops" and I actually laughed out loud
It's ironic how one of the most common sayings about satan is "the greatest lie the devil ever told was making you believe he didn't exist." When the character was literally invented from very little or no basis in the actual texts.
the greatest lie that God ever told was making you believe he existed.
Interestingly enough, I read an article on a religion and mythology website about how in one of the Apocrypha, specifically the Book of Jubilees, there is an angel referred to as Mastema who kinda-sorta-almost fills the role of Satan. Supposedly, their role was to test the faith of humans, punish wrongdoing, and help carry out God's will on earth. Thing is, they weren't an adversary of God, no, they were doing their job. It's kind of interesting seeing how Christianity's evolved over the millennia, but it def makes it harder to put any stock in it.
I always believed the greatest lie was that Satan does exist. Like Noah actually got every species of the animal kingdom in a manmade boat. Or Moses actually spread the Red sea.
his biggest appearance is in the book of job, where ironically, he's the one morally right.
Not to mention “the greatest lie…” isn’t an actual Bible verse.
Even before I stopped being a Christian entirely, I was convinced that Satan worked for God. How could anyone defy and all-powerful being? They couldn't. Therefore, he worked for God and I stopped having any fear of him after that.
while God is indeed all-powerful, He allows free will, which includes the possibility of rebellion. Satan's actions are not in service to God but are permitted within God's sovereign will. A healthy fear of God recognizes His justice and power while embracing His love and mercy. Ultimately, the Bible affirms that God will triumph over all evil, including Satan.
@@studyackatherine1693Angels are not supposed to have free will as humans were designed to. How could Lucifer choose wickedness then?
Honestly, the lucifer and fallen angels things, as a literary thing, is sooooo interesting. Religion is always so good as a piece of literature. So inspiring.
I was in a class on the poet John Milton and when I say we were all on Satan's side reading Paradise Lost, I'm not joking lmao
Every discussion we had was like "HE'S GOT A POINT AND ADAM IS A MISOGYNISTIC HIMBO" 😂😂😂😂
Then we spent the other half of the class roasting Milton for being....that's a 100-slide PowerPoint presentation that I'm not dropping on you but he's not a good dude lmao
It’s like Homer Simpson said: “God is my favorite fictional character “.
Without an antagonist, there is no conflict
After five decades of wading through it, turns out it’s not that interesting after all.
I was interested in the Fallen Angel mythology myself, until I realized that Satan is a misanthrope person… Satan is a big red multi-headed dragon..🔥🔥🐉🐲🟥🟥
"God didn't create Satan. No, he just created Lucifer."
Yeah, he created Lucifer knowing he would become Satan. So, how again didn't he create Satan?
Me in court explaining how my tnt stack was just a gunpowder bag gone rogue and evil by choosing the fire of my burning newspaper
What's the bloody difference?😄😃😀
@@hackman669 there isn't one.
@@hackman669 I didn maek no pipebomb i jus maed spicy pressure tube
Apparently, and I don’t know how many more churches are using this argument, but it’s quite literally because God doesn’t know evil. In some interpretations His nature is so “good” that he can’t comprehend “bad”. Which is wack, because that means He’s neither Omniscient or Omnipotent. So not a god.
I recently found your channel and really enjoy it. I have some religious trauma from my past of being raised in the church, and this video specifically really shines a light on just how hard it is to argue with fundamentalists. I swear I feel like I am having an aneurysm hearing their circular reasoning.
As a Christian I was taught that Angels don't have free will and that that's only something for humans... so how would Satan have "chosen" evil?
2:45 this is fascinating to me because Lucifer he's actually pretty accurate to Christian mythology . He's supposed to be handsome and seductive and he's supposed to have mainly a gripe against God and not against humens . Lucifer is not much further from Christian Cannon "Paradise Lost"
The main problem I had with "Lucifer" is that the Lucifer in the bible is clearly referring to a human king of Babylon (although some have claimed that it's referring to Babylon as a whole), that and the actor was in "Miranda".
@@pineapplepenumbrain DC canon ,which yes lucifer is part of, any god or deity that exists does so purely based on belief. So many people believe Lucifer to be what he was described as in the bible that its the mold he's shoved into.
"Searching for the truth should never endanger the truth." 💯 Beautifully said. I look forward to all your vids. Thanks for your hard work and insights. ❤
“Searching for the truth should never endanger the truth” - so well said. Thank you for another thoughtful video!
So brief yet so powerful a statement.
The idea that people truly believe that satan is a real person who wants to make them sin was one of the hardest things to wrap my head around as someone who was raised without religion.
God has been known to kill thousands for the mildest slight against him, you can’t tell me for a single second he wouldn’t immediately annihilate Satan
While it might seem logical that God would annihilate Satan immediately after his rebellion, the Bible presents a more complex picture of God's dealings with sin and rebellion. God's judgments serve a greater purpose, demonstrating His holiness, justice, and patience while allowing for the testing and refining of believers' faith. Instances like the plagues in Egypt and the destruction of Sodom show His judgments are not arbitrary but part of a greater plan, often allowing opportunities for repentance (2 Peter 3:9). Satan's continued existence is permitted within God's sovereign plan, and his ultimate defeat is assured (Revelation 20:10). Understanding God's actions requires recognizing His higher ways and the broader narrative of redemption revealed in Scripture (Isaiah 55:8-9).
maybe god and satan is like batman and joker
@@studyackatherine1693 So basically, Yahweh is a sadistic egomaniac, who wants humanity to pointlessly suffer- cause the bronze age warlords who commissioned these stories wanted to have their cake and eat it too. "Our god is super powerful and smart and good- as a matter of fact he is infinitely powerful, knowing and good! Suck on that, pagans!"
"If he's infinitely powerful, knowing and good, than evil should not exist. After all, he has the ability, knowledge and morals to wipe it out. Whence comes evil, then?"
"Well, um, uhh... free will! It's obviously the victims' fault. Cause, like, Yahweh doesn't want automatons."
"But, if he is all knowing, he knows the future, which means he knows how all of us will act, meaning we are predestined. Therefore we are automatons to him, and "free will" is nothing more than an excuse to torment us for something we have no choice in."
" Waah, free will! God gave you a choice! It doesn't matter if he knew 100% what you would choose from the beginning, cause I said so! My god is greater and we will show it with the most sophisticated of methods- by murder- I mean "righteously killing" all of you!"
"Appeal to force. Can't an all powerful, all knowing god come up with something more sophisticated? Like brainwashing. After all, he can hear our thoughts..."
It’s amusing but strange when the religious communities accept fan fiction as general beliefs, for instance how many people treat The Divine Comedy or Paradise Lost like they’re canonical?
I don’t remember Genesis saying anything about Satan or Jesus existing before the fall, all I remember are two naked folks, a snake and a sky potter.
At least it laid the foundation for the greatest book ever written, Moby Dick.
To be fair, what _not_ accept The Divine Comedy or Paradise Lost as if they’re canonical? The bible was made up shit, or distortions of older myths and legends, so those and even films and TV programmes are no more unreal than that.
From what I remember in génesis the Word used for "god created them in his image and likeness" is plural. So You could argue that god was talking to Jesus.....
Obviously it's Made believe and is stick together with strings and ducktape but it's A link.
@benjaminmadrigalperez9010 actually he was talking to the other gods. he's the supreme god but all others are part of his council. of course this interpretation fell by the wayside when they decided to idolize jesus
To be fair, the LDS 'church' does have canonical stories about satan and jesus before the Creation.
But like most running cons, it just patches the old holes and makes new ones.
Dante wrote those books as a diss on certain people he knew and to express his hatred of the Catholic church. They were satire he was forced to write them.
I am loving this new series, Trevor. The way you let these fundies explain in their own words exactly how ridiculous all of this is, is masterful. I can’t believe I ever believed any of this nonsense.
Yeah it's both satisfying and infuriating, lol. They are all instant classics.
I'm a Christian and I watch most of these videos and it's frustrating because I don't agree with most of the clips he shares either. The Christians he highlights are poor examples unfortunately and he's rejecting Jesus based off of these silly ridiculous people who don't even represent Him well.
To an extent it's an indictment against the disunity of Christianity where there can be so many "expressions" of Christianity that they stray away from the very thing they claim to be. I'm right with you that it's hard to believe any of this nonsense because these people talk about nonsense.
@@N8R_Quizzie That's just evidence that the Holy Spirit is not guiding every believer towards the truth. Think about it. I was in your position last year, but now I finally came out of this mental prison.
@@asharpminorhkThis will be a pretty long comment:
you can choose to quench the Holy Spirit or to follow it like Galatians 5:16-17 says.
Now, only true Christians have the Holy Spirit. For us this is hard to tell as a whole because who is and who isn't really a Christian is different for just about everyone. What we can (kind of) tell is if the Holy Spirit is really working within a person. You can look at the fruits of the Spirit in Galatians 5 to see if someone or generally the people of a certain "expression" of Christianity has those fruits and are increasing.
There are a ton of denominations based on mostly secondary doctrinal issues in which do not determine if someone's a Christian or not. As bad as disunity is, it shows the organic-(ism) of Christianity because it's not made up. If it were made up it'll look a lot more like Mormonism or something where there's one very specific origin outta some cult basement or something lol. So in a way that's fine that it's not all exactly the same. My issue is with some of these false preachers giving a bad name and a misrepresentation of Christianity. There's a lot of prosperity gospel and some charismatic (with some crossover) preachers that totally ignore Jesus and that's the primary problem.
I love how the further I delve into Christianity with an atheistic mindset, the more God and Satan begin to sound like exes that had a bad breakup and are dragging the kids into it.
And god is having a hard time to forgive bim but you a human being should forgive seconds after being hurt despite him being revengeful and unforgiving
😂😂😂
@@eun371The god who literally died to signify his forgiveness is unforgiving? The one who literally blessed the people who were torturing him to death was un forgiving? Did the ACTUAL FUCKING PHARISEES teach you the Bible?
I mean Yeah, even from a Christian point of View the first thing the Serpent did was twist eves perception of God’s words into convincing Eve to do the one thing she wasn’t allowed to yet. That sounds like toxic ex behavior at least on one side.
they are both shitty entities.
But after subbing to this channel I have to say Satan is only a slightly lesser evil than Jehovah
Just wait until they stumble on “Angel Sanctuary”.
I did a paper on the devil, for religion class in Catholic school and my classmates lost their collective mind. They were very curious about it and desperate to read ir- even though they did not even speak to me- but were terrified of the cover.
I copied it, by hand, from a book cover that reproduced a pamphlet from the Middle Ages, it was the usual five points star and goat’s head. This terrified them. To the point they wouldn’t even touch it and some were afraid of being in the same room with it!
One asked me about it and was floored when I told her I drew it late at night, alone in my living room. As if this was a very brave thing to do!
When you're in the grip of religion, a concept like Satan seems perfectly reasonable. When you have a few years of separation from those beliefs, hearing about things like Satan feels exactly like hearing grown adults earnestly discussing their beliefs in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. It makes exactly as much sense as that.
Ive always said that hearing christians talk about satan and demons and exorcisms sounds so much like how my friends and i talk about like, Naruto and Dragon Ball. They're nerds, but worse. At least i know Naruto isnt a real thing HAHAHAH
The nail in the coffin of my Catholic faith was realizing that “hey the snake in the garden of evil is kind of a good guy”
At least one Gnostic text I've heard of (can't remember which one) claimed that the serpent was actually Jesus and that the OT God was the real bad guy for trying to keep knowledge from humans.
The nail in the coffin for my faith was that God felt the need to punish humanity for a serpent he definitely knew was there, for if he didn't, he's not an all powerful god at all
Yeah, I actually find the concept of the initial existence Adam and Eve had to be terrifying. Not knowing anything and being completely dependant on someone who’s so narcissistic and cruel to dictate everything for them. They couldn’t even start thinking for themselves without the serpent’s intervention. Terrifying.
@@hexmage806 Gnosticism is so interesting to me!!! I remember hearing an overview of something like what you said. If you happen to remember what text you read it in, please let me know as I would love to take an in depth look at it :)
@@Queen_of_Coffeethat’s not true at all
I was always super obnoxious as a kid and would ask why Satan would torture you for doing what he wants, especially if he wants you to disobey god and if god wants him to torture us. I figured we'd be chill, bonding over a shared love of rock and roll
Yeah, there is something odd this. Near the beginning, some dude was going on about how Satan CHOOSES to be in hell.
I thought hell was supposed to be a place of eternal torment? Yet, Satan seems pretty content there. How can that be? So now hell doesn't have to be a place of eternal torment?
And once you make that concession, all of a sudden you open up possibilities like what you suggest: why would Satan torture me forever if I spend my life doing his bidding?
Why wouldn't he just put me on the payroll and make me one of his minions? Kind of, would it be better to rule in hell than serve in heaven?
In order to avoid this problem, they have to go with the "hell is eternal torture" line. But then they turn right around and act otherwise.
@@flowingafterglow629 Hell's actually not meant to be Satan's domain; it's supposed to be a punishment for him, too.
@@F1areon When he can't commute back to heaven, to swap a clever dick comment, about Job, anyway...
@@F1areon Don't tell me, tell the moron at the beginning of the video who claims that Satan wants to be there.
@@F1areonYeah, that's the point. It doesn't seem like Hell is torture for a guy who wanted to get away from god to begin with. I mean, I've heard some preachers say that "hell" is more of a separation from god. But people who don't the christian god or don't want to be around them they would never feel that need to joined at the hip of that crazy ole deity.
I dunno, maybe it's the pastor's daddy issues creeping out, who knows?
A simple progression of the religion.
Earlier versions of the Abrahamic religions included other gods, but slowly morphed into a "One God above" type of thing.
By the time of Jesus's story was being spread, there was lots of questions regarding the supposed all powerful God. So Satan was introduced. He's not the first antagonist for a god, so it was accepted very easily and you were able to sweep a lot of inconsistencies to Satan by retconning older stories of the Bible, like Eve and Job.
Not to mention, it had the added benefit of shitting on other religions by saying those religions were just planted by Satan. Hence why Satan is a mix of a lot different gods.
Dude, thank you for making these. They are entertaining and funny, but they really express how I felt/feel deconstructing. I wasn’t even the strongest Christian but these beliefs stick with you, it’s crazy. Thanks for the content.
34:59 "...And maybe God just wasn't ready [to have kids]."
I will forever remember this
Not sure if you've shared before, but if you're willing to (and comfortable with) would you spend an episode telling your deconversion story? How deep did you get into the church? What was the turning point, or what questions made you really take a second look at it all?
I'd like to see that, too!
He's told bits a pieces over time but I don't he sat down and told the whole story in one sitting.
He has mentioned being a youth minister. I think he was in his twenties at the time.
You might find more discussions of his personal experiences in the longer podcast episodes
It's lowkey scary how many of them unconsciously (hopefully) refer to Satan as a person. Like their conceptualization of the devil is literally set up to associate with actual living persons to aim a religious canon of discourse at them
Satan is my fave literary figure and my personal mascot. I was told I was sinful for so many reasons I couldn't even help, I figured I'd just embrace it
Hell yeah, he's pretty cool, he's basically the under-dog hero in the Christian mythology but Christians can't see it cause Jesus goggles.
@@EatHoneyBeeHappyNah Satan is nowhere in the Bible a hero
@@BillCipherr12 In the Bible it's thanks to Satan that humans learned the difference between good and evil. He also didn't kill anyone unless Jesus made him do it, kind of like Batman.
@@EatHoneyBeeHappy humans already knew the difference, they knew disobeying God was evil but they still did it, and Jesus didnt make satan kill anybody
@@BillCipherr12then why the tree is called the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Moreover... Why is nudity evil?
I've always had a couple questions.
1. If Satan is a liar and a trickster, how is anyone sure God is God and not another form of Satan?
2. When was Lucifer cast out of heaven? He was busy creating the world in 6 days, rested on the 7th, the next day or two Eve ate the apple.
3. Christianity, Judaism and Islam all worship the same God. Was each supposed to be a Bios update to the later? Was it supposed to be Windows, Apple and Linux?
@@charlesholzer2526 stop using logic! The fear mongering doesn’t work if you think for yourself
When pastors start talking about Satan, they sound like 7 year olds trying to win an argument
The perfect straw, uh er, being.
"He's a... a zillion times more powerful" I swear I felt my soul invert like a singularity when he stuttered that out 😖😖😖
Just commenting to say I appreciate y'all having subtitles on these more recent videos. it's a small thing but it matters a lot. Hope y'all have a good week!
A thing that most people don’t know is that Satan was not the ruler of hell to early Christians, that was added much later, the bible (Mostly Revelations since he appears the most there outside of Job), says that Satan will be cast into the lake of fire at the end of times.
Hell is his prison, not his domain.
Hmm but look like it is becoming his domain
I'm not religious, but what I gathered from having to read pieces of the Bible for context for a literature class, Hell was ALWAYS his prison. It was his punishment, even in Paradise Lost, a work of fiction. But Milton loopholed Hell and decided Satan was going to rule his prison. And after taking that class, it's easy to see American Christians do not know where the actual Bible ends and Milton begins. They have those two different works interwoven. Which makes it even more confusing than it already was.
Does not help that Milton's work was the foundation of American puritanism.
I believe that the idea that Satan rules Hell is probably taken from Greek mythology where Hades ruled the Underworld.
It's all fanfiction
Exactly. Hell doesn't actively exist in the Bible. It's just what happens in the end.
as a now-Norse aligned pagan i like to reply "sure am! she'll take care of me until Ragnarok :)" when told i'm going to Hell
When I was younger, I went to a church camp one time. We learned at the end of the camp that each of the leaders were praying for some of the campers, and we got the time to talk to the person who had been praying for us. During that conversation, the person who had been praying for me told me that I would go to hell, since I wasn’t his preferred type of Christian at the time…. Your response to someone saying that you are going to hell is so great. I wish I had such a cool response to say back then 🤣😂🤣
Well, at least you're picking a fun myth to believe in. Just stay away from the white supremacy, eh?
Holy shit I love this so much ✨️
Hearing Charles Stanley speak just unlocked a deep memory of me on a Sunday morning while waiting for my great grandmother to get ready for church I watched tv and she always told me to put on mr Stanley 😭
I always felt , i just want to be born and live my life in peace on earth . I never signed up to be involved in someone else's crazy cosmic battles.😢😮
From a Christian perspective, your life is seen as part of God's purposeful creation, and you are endowed with free will, which brings moral responsibility (Psalm 139:13-16; Deuteronomy 30:19). God’s judgment reflects His perfect justice and holiness, ensuring moral order is maintained (Romans 2:6-8). Christianity offers peace through reconciliation with God, made possible by Jesus Christ’s sacrifice (John 14:27). This eternal perspective frames our earthly experiences, suggesting that even if we didn't choose our existence, our lives have meaningful purpose and the potential for peace and reconciliation with God (2 Corinthians 4:17-18).
free will to do everything that I say
@@studyackatherine1693 his perfect justice? It would be comical if it weren’t so sad. Quoting the Bible as doctrine and the base for an argument proves your inability to be reasoned with. You need more than wild fairytales to convince others of your point of view. But if it helps you, that’s great.
@@mcrain1283 fear is one hell of a tool! It’s just hard to fear fairytales past the age of 6.
@@studyackatherine1693 But, if you use said free will, and don't beg Yahweh for forgiveness, you get barbecued forever. AKA coercion of the highest order. But I'm sure you don't ignore all the sins you commit and come up with selfish excuses of "That's mistranslated/ metaphor/ for a different audience." Like how the torturous murder of Yahweh's "innocent" son (who is also him) is totally required for Yahweh's forgiveness. So pretty much, you're benefiting either from a complete miscarriage of justice, as a innocent third party is not just murdered, but tortured, then murdered for your crime.
Or, it's just a bad weekend, since Jesus comes back three days later, and the "sacrifice" has barely any element of giving anything up. So Jesus's death is nothing to be concerned about. Dude gave up his weekend for you.
So which is it? Is the torture and murder of Jesus the ultimate sacrifice that is utterly immoral and a barbaric miscarriage of justice to benefit you? Or is it a slap on the wrist, as Jesus came back and has been living it up in the ultimate paradise in heaven ever since?
And, you know what? This paradox is incredibly easy to solve, let alone for an all knowing, all powerful being. Yahweh can just forgive humanity. It's his own mental state, not the laws of physics. Unless he's such a petty narcissist that the idea of forgiving people who are 4,000 years removed from the terrible "crime" of doing exactly what they were programmed to do, is too much for his precious ego. So, basically, Yahweh could freaking forgive humanity, for something that's not their fault, that's 4,000 years in the past, when none of them were alive. But he's such a bloodthirsty monster he demands his own son, who he claims is "innocent" has to be tortured and murdered for his own sick amusement. The whole "sacrifice" at the heart of christianity is utter moral nonsense. If it is serious than it is an utter miscarriage of justice that all christians benefit from, and should disown. But almost all of its consequences are undone three days later, so really it's a slap on the wrist. And, the whole production is utterly pointless, unless Yahweh is an incredibly petty, bloodthirsty maniac who can't regulate his emotions without some living thing dying. And, after all this, he still says the "great sacrifice" counts for nothing if you swear one too many times. Or look at a woman lustfully. Or wear mixed fabrics. You're still going to hell anyway. It's an utter guilt trip that we can't verify at all, and, in Jesus' follower's own accounts- well, most of them, Mark just has him kick the bucket and not come back- it's turned into a farce in the other direction. So we have one gospel, where Jesus actually sacrifices his life for us, and three where he had a bad weekend. And all of them are utterly pointless in the first place, unless Yahweh has the emotional control of a toddler.
Honestly with how often deals with the devil/faustian bargains are depicted in media the fact that satan never appeared and tried to tempt me was one of the things that pushed me along my deconversion process
I once got completely sidetracked during a conversation with a Christian about the garden of Eden. I was trying to point out all the logical inconsistencies in the story, and I made the mistake of referring to the serpent as a "snake". All of my points were completely rejected the second I conflated "serpent" with "snake", as if that was all that mattered.
Christians still think pedantry is a reliable rebuttal? I had thought christianity would gain some modicum of originality.
@@RedSunUnderParadisecorrect meanings of words make a massive difference in verbal communication. But to put all of that weight onto one point and ignore the other points was unfair and perhaps intellectually lazy... Very frustrating for the commenter.
It’s one thing to disregard an argument for using the wrong word if the word actually matters; like in a lot of anti-evolution arguments where they intentionally use wrong definitions of terms and say “it’s just a theory” because that actually matters for the argument. A snake and a serpent, it really doesn’t matter.
@@Woopor pardon me asking but what's the difference between "snake" and "serpent"? I always thought they were synonyms and serpent was just a fancy way of referring to a snake because in Spanish we just have the word "serpiente" to refer to them
Lul wut? Snake is germanic and serpent is latin in origin and they mean the exact same thing
I'm surprised you didn't mention Paradise Lost by John Milton.
Because that book is arguably the origin of the "Satan was the Sepent in Eden" idea.
I just got out of a John Milton literature class and am currently terrorizing everyone in the comments 😂😂😂😂😂
I said this to someone else:
So much of what Christians think of Satan and Adam and Eve is Paradise Lost without ever reading it. They think what happened in that work happened in the Bible, even when it actually didn't. So, the depiction of Eve, Satan being the ruler of his own prison, etc. American Christians do not know where the actual Bible ends and Milton begins, and it doesn't help that his works were the foundation of American Puritanism.
So like, "God's plan all along" and it's literally Paradise Lost, not Genesis.
I did have to read the Bible for context so we could see what Milton altered to fit his views and what he kept (Adam and Eve's punishment is word for word).
Same thing with their hell. It's from Dante's Inferno.@@sentientplant9658
i remember having to learn in my Bible studies that satan is not a cartoon devil. They were really *hell*-bent on trying to convince us that he's no joke despite the fact that it's just a meer cartoon.
The all knowing part is what gets me. He knows everything , he knows every choice you make, why will he do these things if he knows the path it’ll bring you down, he knows everything he knows how your life will play out. WHt is the point in testing you if he just knows the outcome it will bring? It’s so confusing to me. That’s what made me not believe in him, same with Satan when I was a kid and my friends brought me to church with them (my parents were atheists), and they would say these things I could be so confused as to why he made Satan when he knew what would happen, why would he not get rid of him? Why would he make him if he knew the outcome of that? I just, idk man it makes no logical sense to me at all. Those are the biggest things that just confused me. And why would he let horrible things happen to people especially children if he could stop it? Why not make that molester have a sudden heart attack?
Also, how can he be mad at Adam and Eve if he knew they’d do it anyways? Idk it’s weird and confusing.
"...Gone too soon. Too bad Hell isn't real." That one got me, I had to take a break from what I was eating to not start choking on it.
Haha, I'm cracking up at the "Just look at the trees!" square on Apologetics Bingo. Can't count how many times I've rolled my eyes at that one.😂
never seen the "god wasn't ready for kids" argument before but i love it
im one of the rare kids raised by a fundamental pastor who never believed or bought into this stuff from an early age, so always fascinating to hear from ppl who escaped after truly believing. i think im very lucky to never have to deconstruct.
i'm one of the suckers who ate it all up and went to church with my aunts since i was a kid even though i didn't have to. my mom would bribe me with toys and restaurants to ditch church and hang out on sundays and i rarely took it.
if it wasn't for all the nice memories of being with my aunts (and i suppose i should give some credit for my pretty kickass reading comprehension due to learning to read propaganda before kindergarten,) it is a complete waste of precious time.
@@robertoso8796 im sorry, but im glad to hear you have some good memories. my folks homeschooled us, but also had a heavy emphasis on reading since they wanted us to be able to read the bible very early. of my 3 other siblings, only 1 is still religious 🤷♂️
@@ryanoneal8480 considering the sick stuff that happens to some kids i'm glad my biggest complaints are simply that it was all so stupid and ungodly boring.
Same goes for me. My father is a pastor, both my siblings bought into the religion at first. I was always critical. I actually tried to believe at some point, but i came to the realisation that i can't believe in something so irrational and delusional. After some time my sister was searching answers and asked me about my perspective on things. Thats the story of how my sister started to deconstruct her faith. My brother and my parents are still christian. I think me and my sister are the most aware and truth-seeking individuals in our family who are not afraid of talking about inconvenient topics.
I grew up across the street from a Catholic church, but we never went. About the only impact it had on our lives was that they rang their damn bells too early in the morning and far far too loudly, waking up the godly and ungodly alike. My old man tried to talk to the priest about it, but the priest would brook no change in the ringing schedule as ordained by God and the bishops and the Pope. Eventually Pops mentioned it to Jane, a little old lady down the street who went to church religiously every Sunday. Jane was quite wealthy, and I assume that she tithed away with the best of them. Anyway, she had a word with the priest and subsequently the bells went on an hour later. Funny how God was ok with changing the schedule once a wealthy donor brought it up.
I love the apologetics bingo card. Pascal's Wager and LOOK AT THE TREES elicited an actual snide chortle from me. Please consider adding Cambrian Explosion to the list -- from personal experience it's obnoxiously common these days
One of my things when it comes to the Bible, (I’m a non practicing Catholic) is when you question people about it & you recite passages/verses. Some people got you with “ The Bible says even the devil will know scripture.”
It’s like because I’m asking questions & reciting passages you can’t recall. You are referring to me as the devil?!?
Interesting, if God knows the beginning to the end, didn’t he know beforehand that Lucifer would rebel and get kicked out of heaven and become Satan? I always wondered that myself. I think we should blame the creator not the creation.
also, humans are supposedly special because of our free will. can lucifer really be blamed for following his directives?
Isaiah 45:7
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the lord do all these things.”
Amos 3:6
“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?”
To paraphrase Spiderman, the _more power_ these infantile religious people assign to their imaginary friends, the _more culpable_ that makes them.
The creator should definitely get the blame if they’re supposed to be all powerful alongside all knowing.
I'm part of a program to work more on my mental health but some of the staff openly looking for Satan everywhere makes me feel like I shouldn't or even can't open up to them, the fixation is so toxic
Oh no!! I’m so sorry you’re in that situation. I had a therapist who was super into the “woo.” I had to be really firm about not bringing the woo into our sessions- but I understand that’s not ideal. Good therapists know that therapy puts patients in a vulnerable place, and don’t make US draw the lines. I hope you can move your treatment to a more professional practice soon!
I was in a certain anonymous program for many similar reasons, and I was constantly told I couldn't stay sober without god. It almost made me give up because I just couldn't bring myself to believe in a supernatural being that could "save me from my wicked self"
It’s very dangerous to equate mental health issues, addiction, etc to spiritual warfare. I have anxiety and my mother in law brought a book to me which was a “how to” guide for exorcising myself of the demon of anxiety 🙄
They will blame everything on satan and/or demons. I deal with it in my family but thankfully I know better and I don’t believe that way and so I pick and choose what I say to them or talk about to spare myself from their sermons. I’d find a more secular group if I were you 🥺 it may not be that easy but I hope it will work out for you!
@@lea1upou’re not wicked! I’m sorry you were told those things. You can do anything! I hope everything is going well for you ♥️
@@turquoisebeachchair7454 I am! I am still sober now, 7 years later! I had to leave that program and I decided to follow the scientific research for recovery and treating my underlying mental health issues with medication and therapy designed to help me cope without using substances. I will still never consider myself "cured" but I have a substantial remission and a strong support network.
I have always felt that this figure has been used to excuse away so many things, behaviors and experiences. It's such an "interesting" concept used to manipulate, and control. Then they wonder why people experience spiritual psychosis!
It's good to see my dad getting the recognition he deserves
I enjoy your content.
As a recovering Christian, I think I just need to move on. But all of the Christianity is in my foundation and I need to reexamine it all.
I'm binging watching your channel and it's blowing my mind. I can't believe I once believe this. Smh
THANK YOU FOR SHARING
"God wants us to not sin, but he doesn't want us to be robots,
But also one day we'll be in heaven and we won't be able to sin.
Even though Lucifer was in heaven and he was able to sin.
He wants us to freely choose him or he'll punish us.
We have to worship him on our own,
but als one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess."
37:37 this is honestly just such a great summary of christian apologetics, well done
I recall getting yelled at as kid in youth group when I said heaven sounds like the worst form of torture why would anyone want that at least let me play nintendo or something (80s kid btw)
Charles Stanley: "The devil's a liar, he's a deceiver. He will cheat you, deceive you any way he can to get you to follow him rather than Jesus..." The irony of televangelists saying this kind of statement
Yeah, when I think of good, decent and compassionate humans, televangelists are never on that list.
I dunno if this is the place to ask questions, but I'm loving this series so much, thank you.
I have some specific questions and I dunno if they’ve been answered.
1. Are you more focused on a sect of Christianity, a main idea(like fundamentalism” ), or the overall religion?
2. What is your history in the church? I've heard you talk about some of your experiences being you're a pastor and everything but I do think I have your whole story
3. What's your cats name?
Sorry if that's a lot or too heavy but I'm genuinely loving this series. Please keep this up. ❤
Hey I'm not Pastor Belief it or Not but I've been watching their content for a minute and I think I can offer some insight on the first question.
Their channel seems more focused on fundamentalism and deconstruction. Deconstruction and the fallout it can have on someone along with the processes of what you have to deconstruct are the main focus of these video essays. Videos essays with deconstruction without a specific church: The true church, Sin, most of the 7 deadly sins arc, and the video we're both commenting on. The side focus is the harm fundamentalism brings about. Examples of this are found in: Purity culture, the gluttony video, church and the single person, mission trips.
The podcast has much more focused content on specific pastors and churches if that's more your style. It's also much more personable including Trevor and their co-host talking about experiences with the church.
His cat's name is Jasper
@@huntergoshorn8015that is what I've seen, I've been watching the docuseries and I'm halfway through all of them
Searching for the truth should never endanger the truth.
Very well said, mate!
I am new here in this channel and I just wanna say you are helping me a lot in my deconstruction. Thank you!
If I raised my children up with godly principles and they murdered someone I would not be surprised.
Didn't one of those infamous serial killers have religious parents?
You me religious fundamentalists!! The idiots of the western faith! 😄😃😀
It's interesting how the invisible sky wizard after he booted Satan out of paradise he allow Satan to keep his superpowers🤦🏿♂️🤦🏿♂️🤦🏿♂️
The magical sky daddy doesn't seem that smart tbh
Needed someone to do the whole 'testing people's faith' for him without him getting blamed
Ibliss made an agreement with God, as he was destined to go to hell, his mission was to get the most people possible to also go to hell, so that he doesn't stay alone, and to prove to God that he was indeed superior to Adam.
God kicking satan out of heaven: No, this is a good thing actually.
@@minestar2247 Why would God agree to that in the first place. You're the one who did the bad thing. You're the one who has to go to jail as punishment. Would it make sense for you, having murdered someone, to go to the judge who condemned you to life in prison and go "Okay, but just so I won't be alone, let me see if I can convince my children and my wife to kill people too, so they can come to prison with me"?
And if the judge you're talking to truly loves every single human being - he loves you, but he also loves your wife and your children - then why would he allow you to cut short their lives and their freedom just to alleviate the sentence he gave you for a crime you committed? Is being in prison not supposed to be a punishment?
I have a thought.
What if the story of Adam and Eve is not actually about the fall of humanity. What if the story is about growing up and loosing innocence? Seeing the world as grown ups for the first time as roles of society are reaveled and how ugly the world could be?
Thats a really interesting thought.
Also under the aspect of being naked, children arent ashamed of their bodys and usually dont have a problem running around naked, but grown ups do. Just like Adam and Eve after eating the apple
What's up with the naked shit? Some people cannot stop thinking about it? Weird. 😏
@@GamesAreMyDrugs Exactly. So inherently "knowledge" might not be sin or evil or whatever. It might just be the passage of time when a child grow up to be a teen and then an adult. Like their world is described as beautiful and fantastical. They can't return to Eden since it's their childhood.
There is a hypothesis i saw once that the eden story is about a inexperienced, childlike god setting up a flawed playground and throwing a tantrum when it falls apart
Always assumed that is exactly what it was about. And have you thought about the psychology of religion? As kids, we see our parents as all knowing, all powerful, and they love us unconditionally. Then as we get older, we realize our parents have limits, and they are getting older and will die one day. But we get taught about a god who is our Heavenly Father who is timeless and always loves us and is all knowing, all powerful, and always by our side. That story fits a desperate need within many of us, and the idea that life is eternal and we will meet our relatives again is so appealing. God is also a convenient baby sitter, rather like Santa Claus, always watching us when our parents cannot do so 24/7. Anyway, religions are just memes that have evolved to fit deep psychological needs. And lots of people get so brainwashed with it at a young age that they cannot process that it might just all be stories.
The free will robot objection has always baffled me cause the reason why anyone would think that’s a bad thing is because they already have free will and if they didn’t they they wouldn’t even perceive it being bad if they never had it missing and out there from the beginning in the first place.
I'm a Christian and I love watching these videos. I find them highly entertaining, and a rather fun thing to think through.
I like how the serpent is described as "slithering", but it then is cursed to crawl on it's belly. The timeline doesn't match up. If it already slithered, then how would that be any kind of curse? It never mentions what the precurse mode of movement was either, to make slithering such a terrible thing by comparison... So I like to imagine a serpent that flies, with bat and bird wings.
I figure that snakes were originally more like lizards. They still slithered, but they had legs, and God took those away. The Bible is plenty of fun if you read its stories like any other set of fables. "God told them to behave, but the snake tricked them into goofing off, so God kicked us out of the garden and cursed the snake. And that's why snakes don't have legs!"
I caught that, too. 😂
We've been dead naming Satan for centuries smh
So is he a snake 🐍 Or a goat 🐐 Or a red guy with goat horns, a Hawaiian shirt 👕 and a pitch fork?😁👿👺🤡
@@hackman669 he's not a physical being, he's actually a hive mind that controls priests of mega churches(and governments)
I like how you reverse the sermon strategy of using recent events (like the submarine) in order to debunk the idea of god creating Satan.
It was both a relief and a horror when I realised that I had spent so many years terrified about something which never existed.
Love love love Lucifer! He actually made a comment on the show about the "one million moms" coming after him. But heres a story for you. I asked for the Lucifer series on dvd and the Outlander series on dvd for christmas. My father who is a preacher, choose to get me Outlander over Lucifer cause it was Lucifer. If you have seen Outlander, you know how spicy scenes can get. So my father chose to get me soft core porn essentially, to a show with the devil in it. Also...ive cut off my toxic father. Yet he has my brother in his grasp so bad that my brother blames me for my fathers victim mentality. Thats christianity for you.
The boy hammering the wrong shapes together, so accurate xD
15:55 I can’t imagine being the parent in the crowd with the child crying while the pastor is going on about the Devil’s subterfuge and selection of minions 😂😂😭
When I was a Christian, I believed that there was 24/7 spiritual warfare, and I believed that Satan was trying to tempt me all the time, in order to get me to slip up. The thing is - if Satan was trying to tempt me, then that means that he also was trying to tempt every one else on the planet…. That sounds like so much work. Would Satan get any free time? Would he be able to take at least one day off each week? 🤣😂
Even God needed a day off
@@badiba79
I just pictured Satan in a fucking maid outfit.
Get out of my heeeeaaad! GETOUTGETOUTGETOUTGETOUTGETOUT!
If I were to make a list of all the evil things on Earth and all the good…the evidence would lean towards Satans existence more than God
The line, "We don't know a whole lot about it" sums up the amount of actual research evangelicals and Right Wingers do into a subject they have a beef with.
The amount a research you do to find clips that go with what your saying
Your amazing bro love these type video vs your podcast/long long videos