The whole of Camden Market is now up for sale. I'm sure Jago Hazzard with his newly minted UA-cam billions will be in for it to ensure it retains the indie vibe of old.
@@annother3350 They will, the git that owns it at the moment priced loads of Stallholders out about 5 Years ago (A close friend had a stall in West Yard near the Dock Area for the Canal Taxis and he was given a Week to get out by the Owners after they sold the place he was in out from under him)
I'm surprised that HSBC right on the corner is still there but wouldn't be surprised if they - hsbc - gave up the site to tfl very easily indeed given the speed bank branches have disappeared most other places. A wrap around tube entrance blending in with the existing design would help access for more modest money than those 2000 ideas.
This has baffled me for years! HSBC (and every high street bank really) have shut down hundreds of branches all over the country yet they still have this one which if sold to TfL would create vital extra room for the tube station! Can anyone in-the-know explain why?
I imagine it's because the markets are, or were until recently, largely cash based, so there was enough demand for the kind of banking services that can't be done online.
My thoughts exactly! Keep the frontages of the current station and bank but knock the two together inside to create one building. Unless there's some kind of structural issue we don't know about it seems the obvious solution.
Camden Town is really a difficult problem for the whole line. TfL would love to expand overall throughput by just splitting Northern into two lines (so no normal switching at all) but then Camden Town would instantly become a major interchange point. But it's already one of the most overcrowded places on the whole network, so that would be a mess. Doing the proposed Battersea->Clapham Junction extension would be extremely useful for the south of the network, but doing so without sorting the switching issue in Camden first would be a headache all its own. So the whole line is hamstrung by the limitations in Camden. That said, the circa-2000 redevelopment plans were really dreadful. The 2018 plan at least was reasonable, but who knows if it will ever go ahead.
If the Northern line does get extended to Clapham Junction, would there be an infill station? Looking at the map, there's a rather large gap between the two stations and it seems appropriate to put one on this route? Let's say at the edge of Battersea Park at Albert Bridge Road?
@@Pano1 Clapham Junction would just congest the entire line even more than it already is. That's why it hasn't happened. They need to sort bottlenecks around the rest of the network before that would even be practical. Just think how much traffic is already passing through the place!
@@francisrogers9824 Too close together, the distance between Battersea Power Station and Clapham Junction isn’t that far at all. Clapham Junxtion is in Battersea after all.
@@Kolavskaya Splitting would not make interchanging any better - almost certainly it would be worse - and is would not be practical without a major rebuild at platform level with a lot more inter-platform connections and probably something like the central tunnel at Bank to allow crowds to exit the platforms without having to walk down the platform. What splitting would do is to increase the numbers of trains per hour you can run and generally decrease congestion.
In the early 1980s, I stayed with a friend whose flat was above a shop on Camden High Street specializing in "literature" and "personal items" of questionable taste. The Camden Town tube station was nearby, but always so gridlocked with human traffic that I almost always preferred trudging down to Warren Street or Euston Square. Your video informs me that the situation at Camden Town station has gone from bad to worse in the interceding 40 or so years. Perhaps what is worse is that the area has gone from questionable to almost respectable. Like you, I recall waking many times in Camden vowing to never drink again. University money well spent, that was. May you get well soon.
Maybe they should just "annexe" the HSBC, get some Oxblood tiles and extend the present station so it looks like its always been there. Might give sufficient space for the passenger throughput without being OTT. I wonder how an express line might have worked? Under the present line but with minimal interchanges? Just one or more of the major terminii or would it have gone somewhere else? Hmmmm.
Unfortunately adding a bit of space in the front wouldn't provide any place for a new escalator or anything, so won't be of much help. To expand actual capacity you need to mostly go in the other direction
These proposals are what happens when a child reads too many comic books and then grows up to be an architect. That first one has a bit of a bow-of-a-canal-boat look to it, which is at least thematically appropriate. The second one looks like a low rise Stark Tower in an alternate MCU where Iron Man had to follow development guidelines. The pod one reminds me of a particularly agressive fascinator.
I haven't heard people say I shouldn't say "mall", but I have heard people say I pronounce it wrong. I say it the same as Jago, and indeed, Americans. Rhymes with ball. But people say it should rhyme with pal.
@@PiousMoltar "Maul" for a shopping arcade seems OK as it is an American concept anyway. But "mal" for a street, as in Pall Mall, of course - not to mention THE Mall, at one end of which that old lady has her London gaff.
One should go steady on the nostalgia for Camden Town past - its easy to forget the old problems. Early/mid 1960s, Parkway (from the tube station towards Regents Park and the Zoo) was largely Cypriot shops and cafes, Greek Cypriot one side, Turkish Cypriot on the other, with the occasional petrol bomb lobbed across. Just off Parkway stood the large Rowton House, a hostel for the many Irish labourers in the area. So there was little scope for the district to go downmarket. I lived at nearby Archway, so was aware of the area's flaws. Having said that, its one of many transformed areas of London, with very dodgy histories - anyone remember Notting Hill from the same period?
The way I'd have dealt with this - first - split the Northern Line in two and set up cross-platform interchange (this way the passengers changing trains have less to walk and take up less room in the station). Then, annex the bank, keep the building but put in a new entrance and set of escalators down to platform level. Do the same with the former deep-level shelter. Suddenly, boom, triple the exits and the interchange passengers don't get in the way all of a sudden, all while keeping the surface buildings basically intact from the first floor up (Inc the lovely art deco bank, which I like a lot) - plus, the patchwork look of the station would fit the vibe of Camden better than the space-age Canary Wharf style. Just a concept though!
"Tomb Raider Experience....." "Something you can do in your local cemetery with a pick & shovel......." Couldn't help but having a good chuckle at that! 😁😄😆
My family and I made the mistake of having our vacation to London in March of 2020. It wasn’t so bad Hampton Court and the Tower of London were empty and we literally had them to ourselves. My youngest daughter is a huge Dr marten boots fan and wanted a pair very badly from Camden. The store was already closed due to the luming pandemic but the street was empty. We decided to buy what we could from whoever was open. 4 shops got all of our business. Even with all that the tube station at Camden was still really busy.
Keeping in line with the book references, then as an analogy to the Tube station of Camden Town, it is not the cover of the book that needs updating, but its content. Considering the volume of passengers flowing through on a daily basis then the three causes of concern are: the lack of extra escalators; the bottleneck that forms at the exit where there are insufficient turnstiles (not sure what their proper name is); and that chaotic mess at the bottom of the escalator pointing to the various platforms in a disorienting way. It seems a real mystery to me that TfL have actually managed to conveniently overlooked what is very worryingly a recipe for disaster. Rather than a total facelift, which would not be practical and fair to the average person in this age of inflation, it would be truly rewarding to see the ethos of a bygone era where engineers were valued for their ingenuity. I wouldn’t overhaul the structure of the building through demolition, as that would also mean closing down the station, impacting the local economy. My proposal is to tender a design for a further escalator or two (or something alternative perhaps innovative), and when the lease runs out on the HSBC site then to restructure that part with a columned facade that creates a joined entrance/exit. Just an idea. But something needs to be done.
That book must be a fun read. Those hypothetical designs are wild, and very much reflective of the strange, sci-fi design language of the early 2000s. There's a certain charm to them in that sense, but as an outside observer who has never been to London, I don't think they'd fit in with the look of the area. Still, I love videos about this sort of thing. Looking at concept art of projects and wondering what could have been is a lot of fun to me.
There's a simple, easy, and cheap solution. Use naming psychology! Rename Chalk Farm as Camden Roundhouse - it's actually closer to parts of the market. Rename Mornington Crescent as Camden South, Camden High Street, Camden Palace (a nearby venue), or even Camden Mornington. Re-open Kentish Town South as Camden North (yes, I know it will slow up Tube lines, maybe a part-time station?). Re-open Primrose Hill (why, why, why was it closed?) as Camden Market, Camden Lock, or Camden Stables, and change Camden Road to Camden East, and re-open Camden Road (Midland) as Camden Road (there is literally no station nearby, weird). Basically, use extant infrastructure to reduce pressure.
There are two big issues at Camden Town. Only the first (perhaps) is that covered here - the need to get more people in and out of the station. I guess there is a need for a larger gate line than the space currently allows for, and there definitely is a need for another set of escalators, but perhaps the real need is to have some space outside for people to arrive or depart from. That is the justification, I think, for switching the entrance to the north - the junction of Chalk Farm Road and Kentish Town Road forms a fairly sharp point - there is not much room. To be honest turning one of them into pedestrian-only would probably solve the problem. Perhaps the real problem though is what Jago glossed over - the platform level. It is no big secret that TfL would like to split the Northern Line into two - the Bank branch going to Highgate etc and the Charing Cross branch going to Hampstead (or is it the other way around? I forget exactly). Getting rid of the Junctions at Camden Town would allow much better throughput. However, a rough estimate is that 50% of passengers would change trains. Camden can't cope. They need a lot more interchange tunnel connections. The connection between the top and the bottom? Money. TfL want a big commercial development to pay for the whole thing. As you imply, this is hardly Camden. They have been fluffing around for a few decades on this. If they really want to split the line into two, they probably need to pay for it - think Bank!
Pall-Mall was a game that was sort of a cross between golf and croquet. You needed a very long straight area to play it. One such court was the eponymously named London thoroughfare. When the game went out of fashion, a lot of the old courts became poplar market places. You have a nice long narrow street with shops either side. All very convenient. But that's why we now call collections of shops, malls. So really it's a very English term.
The elephants head is my favourite pub in C.T. Its grubby, chocker block, touristy, bohemian and I love sitting in the window and watching the sexy Punkets walking by.
40-50 years ago I lived in Belsize Park in a bedsit. Camden and Chalk Farm were part of my stamping ground. Camden had its market even then and it was worth visiting. Interesting 'late hippie' stuff. The Roundhouse was famed for its Sunday afternoon concerts. Camden Town was a dump but it was a gorgeous dump. Last time I visited was a couple of years ago and found that it's now an even more gorgeous dump particularly if you walk around looking above the shops. These proposals seem to be designed to wreck the dump: it'll be a real shame if they're implemented without serious public consultation.
Now that the Bank works are complete and the NLE is done, I can easily see this being TFL’s next big project - including splitting the Northern line. Get it done, TfL!
Splitting the Northern would add to congestion as 50% of those that wait for a train to their final destination at the stations before Camden town would now have to travel to Camden and change there.
Love those original tube stations on the Northern line. I remember getting off the National Express coach from Chesterfield at Golder's Green and getting on the tube. I thought Camden Town was a Listed Building in a Conservation area...
The old Camden market is no more and a lot of the traders moved out in response to the higher rents that the brand stores were able to pay. The current owner of Camden market has put it up for sale and hopes to recapture the spirit of bygone days with his brand new development, Hawley Wharf, that has all the charm of airport shopping. As for the station, who knows? Whatever happens, the rebuilt station will have none of the flights of fancy proposed in Taylor's book.
Early underground car, at the London Transport Museum. I have no idea what they were thinking - normal railway cars had normal windows then. Maybe they thought that passengers would get freaked out about being in a lot of tunnels, but then there were long railway tunnels already.
@@emjayay - They were colloquially known as ‘Padded cells’. The designers thought that as they ran completely in tunnels, there was no need for windows! Each car had a gateman who would shout out the names of the stations as they arrived.
they were all a bit like 'a spaceship landed in Camden Town'! The most i know about Camden was how many bands cut their teeth in the area when there were many (in)famous pub venues, then later on into Britpop times where it became a fashionable place to get wasted (and be seen to be so by the hip press)
Admitting up front that I recognise how much of an insanely MASSIVE (and expensive) disruption it would be, I still feel that the only realistic solution for Camden Town is to completely rip out everything, relay the tracks as two separate lines/branches and rebuild the station so it can handle being both an interchange and a destination. Just make sure you hire an architect that designs a building in keeping with the feel of the local area.
@ Reuben McKay I think that would not be necessary. They already have two pairs of platforms (one pair for each northern branch, and hence one pair for each line if they split them), and the tracks are already laid out in such a way as to allow parallel working without crossovers. The problem is the limited and awkward passenger access between the various platforms and between the platforms and the surface, so what is needed is better and more capacious interchange facilities and an extra set of escalators leading to an additional entrance/exit. BTW one current problem, i.e. that southbound passengers can't tell in advance which platorm their first train will go from, would be solved by the split in and of itself.
As an ex- resident of Camden Town (Chalk Farm Road from 1982 to 1989) it's rather sad to see what has become of the whole area. Used to be a great place, with lots of fishmongers, bakers, the Inverness Street food market as well as the Lock and the Stables. The tube was always chaos on weekends so I'd always head for Chalk Farm or Kentish Town to avoid getting trampled. Very interesting to see these designs, but not surprising to see that the station is still a mess.
Great video Jago. I spent a lot of the 70s and 80s in Camden. I worked on a comic book stall in the then tiny Camden Market. I used to buy 50s rock n roll records from Ted Carroll's Rock On records which was right by the station entrance on the Kentish Town Road side. Great memories.
Nothbound platforms at Camden Town are split according to which line the trains are destined to go on, which is useful, wheras the southbound platforms are split, but determined by where the trains have come FROM, which is not so useful, but difficult to avoid during construction, hence the dot-matrix indicators on the concourse at the foot of the escalators.
OK you got me good with that "Tomb Raider" line... RIP me, died laffin. Gawds I miss my travelin days... I absolutely _adore_ London, I wish I could live there.
I was a child of the Northern Line (High Barnet branch), arriving in Finchley, aged nine, when we'd migrated from Dublin. You could still see the odd bowler hatted gentleman then and the rush hour ended promptly at 9.30 and trains would run almost empty up till 4pm. They were the cosy 1930s carriages of old and the rails didn't scream at one like they do now. Anyway, Camden Town was taking off us a hip place, but concentrated within the immediate lock area. By 1984/85 I worked for a year on Oval Road and would pass Alan bennett with his string shopping basket, no doubt out doing Thora Hirds shopping for her. The company I worked for was Club 18-30 Holidays and I even became a Clubrep. Top company and very professional in spite of the company's notoriety. I remember many a drunken night in the Elephant's Head. This was all when Camden was still on a scale. I can't remember when I might last have been there and I'm more than happy to leave it to my past.
I think they need to build new Northern Line tunnels, get rid of the junction, have one cross platform interchange for Northbound trains and a second cross platform interchange for Southbound trains. If they cut the escalators back, they could create a new concourse one level down and then dig up the entire road junction, in a similar style to Oxford Circus and Piccadilly Circus. They could then compulsory purchase all the buildings on the corners of that junction, so that they could have multiple ways up from the underground concourse.
But in a sense that cross-platform interchange already exists. 1 and 3 northbound are on the upper level and 2 and 4 southbound are on the lower level. I suspect though that the current platforms and passageways are not wide enough for demand. From what I remember, people also sometimes wait to see which platform is the next southbound train for their desired route, which can cause localised congestion.
Very interesting - I like Camden - specially the Market - even thou I have not been there in many many years!!! I once drove to Camden to have a night out - forgot where I packed my car & proceeded to spend about 9 hrs looking for it but that is another story!!! 😮🚂🚂🚂
Get well soon, Jago! Really interesting as always, and agreed on your views around the new station proposals at Camden. Also, that Tomb Raider gag really tickled me…
I have sympathy for the Camden Town designers. The more area they can get possession of on the surface the easier and faster it is to dig the station box. Excavating by keyhole like at Bond Street is going to get you into all sorts of trouble. What gets put over the station afterwards is probably just a secondary consideration and more for the accountants. The Sydney Metro is lucky that Sydney has an almost unlimited amount of totally nondescript buildings , that mainly date from the 70s , that can be resumed and demolished with not one person caring at all, so our station boxes are massive, even in the centre of cities.
the study reminds me of Mr Fogg's Residence. as for the market it was designated to use repurposed containers so as to be quickly dismantled, and the school still on Buck street still remains closed after the the new one was built on Hawley Street the new canalised shops on the old markets conceal considerable construction underground opposite the old MTV studios/ Viacom offices similar to the old storage of the accurately named ice wharf Wetherspoons, one great loss is the redevelopment of the Old Morrisons supermarket & the Camden catacombs beneath it. Also at the rear of Darwin Court apartments on Gloucester Road opposite the Foxton's estate agent you would find the old steam engine rail entrance to the Hampstead line which runs under the Rotunda complex (the cylinderical Architecture is a giveaway as being the Vertical shaft) next to Gloucester Crescent
Looking at the discussions of the impact on Camden Town, as we all know by the time funds are raised, plans approved and construction started all the "cool kids" will be going to Osterley or Tooting Bec. Camden Town is where the cabbies take the tourists from Iowa.
Used Camden Town station on my last trip to London. (God, that makes me feel so old typing that...) Never made it up to Camden Lock (which I wanted to see), or the market, but my mate and I did stop at Poppy's for some lovely fish and chips. (Don't at me, I also love me some Master's Superfish on Waterloo Road.)
TfL has already bought a lot of plots between Stucley Place, Buck Street and Kentish Town Road in order to build the new primary ticket hall and entrance / exit. The current station building would serve as a secondary entrance / exit. There's just not enough money to redevelop the station's internal layout. And don't forget, redevelopment of the station's platforms and concourses is also a necessity in order to seperate both the eastern section of the Northern line from the western section.
Surely the key is to redevelop the station below ground, which is what has happened and is happening at Bank, although this might have to happen at a slightly different location as shutting the northern line for months at this location is not an option. Building a new second entrance would therefore make sense, as this could be the replacement temporary entrance whilst the original station is reworked, to then provide a final solution
Camden in the 90's early 00"s was such a great place.. I lived and worked there. I remember the plans to change the tube station. I've not been there in about 20 years and assumed the work had probably been done. Great video... your dry sense of humour is perfect as ever. thanks.
One day about twenty(!) years ago now I was on a trip to London and visited Camden. On returning to Camden Town station there was a guy with a rather magnificent handlebar moustache manning the gate, only letting in so many people at a time to avoid a risk of crushing.
The environment of Camden Town, with all its clubs and other entertainment reminds of notorious "Block E" in Minneapolis, where I grew up. The whole block was flattened in 1988, and nothing would replace it besides a parking lot until 2001. It was a shopping and hotel complex of no special merit, that became a desolate failure in 10 years. At least the gentrification of Camden Town isn't leading to too much demolition, just more expensive venues going into the existing buildings.
I always try to avoid Camden Town because it's full of tourists at daytime and druggies when the night falls. I keep hearing stories about what a cool place it used to be but I can't see it there now.
Can you imagine the S-ilt we'd be in, in the summer? Glass and steel with barely any mass to absorb heat, so everything goes directly into the ticket hall and creates a huge pocket of hot air. It'd have to be shut during the day, at the rate at which the heatwaves are going.
With you Jago on everything you said about Camden Town area/market. I guess we are a similar age. Man it has changed. Sigh. I guess one thing you can say is that at least it didn't totally close (like Kensington) and the Electric Ballroom was saved.
One of the things I miss most about London is drunkenly stumbling from Electric Ballroom down to Mornington Crescent at 3am on a sunday morning. fingers crossed they don't have the funds to do much for a while yet.
Camden Town, oh those glorious (are you sure?) formative teenage personal development time spent learning that because a place has a reputation for cool, doesn't mean it is anything beyond an expensive tourist trap. Although I did purchase a brilliant biker leather jacket for £40 which was one of the gems I got from the stolen gear/second hand market.
I see the grafitti HELCH at 10.44, there's a huge on of those on the railway bridge across the M25 between jcts 16 and 17, it replaced give peas a chance and the Queen Mother is hip. They go back awhile as you can imagine. I always wonder how the hell they get up there and do it without being seen, especially with all the CCTV these days.
"Electricity to my ball room" - now *that* would solve your blocked tubes in a very short time! Hope you'll be back to full steam in the shortest time dear Jago 😊
I remember the proposed Camden Town rebuild and Ken Livingstone was pushing for this unfortunately there was so much red tape and lack of money, there was also tramlink planned between Camden Town and Peckham as well shortly after this.
How interesting, I was in Camden Town last Saturday, sadly too crowded for me, but might visit again during the week. Market ridiculously expensive too🙄
Love visiting Camden! It does have a great vibe to it. Also, love to be able to hang out at Hawley Arms & Camden Market. Hope there will be facelift for the tube station! Thanks for the share!
I reckon the smart thing to do would be to keep the surrounding buildings, gut them, and expand the station into them. It would do the required job while keeping the character of the area. Of course it would be more difficult than just demolishing the whole lot and starting again, but it would still probably end up a lot cheaper. However, the politicians might not like it as there would be less opportunity for kickbacks from the companies contracted to redevelop the place.
Replacing the HSBC on the corner with a big entrance and gate lins and closing the side entrances would likely do a lot to help as currently you get congestion at the gate line as people try to figure out which way they're meant to go, by HSBC becoming the entrance, you'd just go straight in and down the escalators, no turns or anything, then at the apex of the intersection in from of the HSBC you could have signage pointing people in the right direction as they exit the station
Maybe, but I think it would be a fair bit of work, and it would just move the bottle neck to the single escalator in each direction. Maybe something to do if we got a second entrance/exit and made the original, exit only permanently
Camden Town and the Battersea Power Station redevelopment were by far my favourite areas in London Jago, have you ever considered doing a video on the proposed split of the Northern Line, which would include a mandatory rebuild of the Camden Town station? Or maybe how the split could be done while leaving the station as is? (maybe with interchanges only in Euston and Kennington?)
@@seansoraghan3245 I believe Mornington Crescent is only on one branch? So they could do an OSI between MC and CT, with MC on one branch and CT only on the other branch
@@miguelbarreira5005 Mornington station sits between both branches but is only connected to one My idea is to connect to both branches the distance is fairly short
As an American, I support drawing a distinction between malls and shopping centers/centres. In our usage, they're two very different types of development. Basically, a mall is built around stores that open onto an enclosed/pedestrianised space-a la the Westfields and Bluewaters of the world-and a shopping center is designed for being able to drive right up to the door of whatever store you want to go to. Looking at aerial photos, there are a few American-style shopping centers in the Beckton/Gallion's Reach area.
'... a shopping center is designed for being able to drive right up to the door of whatever store you want to go to.' In this country, that's your local high street and it's seldom possible to park outside the shops.
Jago...I didn't visit the Electric Ballroom, my venue of choice in the mid-70s was the Roundhouse watching bands such as Gong and Camel, I still got drunk though!
I remember the squabble over this, though I never managed to make it to the Ballroom as Full Tilt ended and when visiting London I'd usually end up in the Devonshire Arms followed by Hotel Slimelight (Angel Station, left left and left). Also remember getting pieced on a whim in Cold Steel Last time I went to Camden it was very different, much more big brands and it doesn't surprise me that things like Sports Direct and Tomb Raider have moved in. The Goths seem to have decamped to Holloway and Archway, not sure where the punks have gone. Underworld is still there though! I also bet that Cyberdog still needs a second mortgage! Now it's brands and hipsters maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing to rebuild the station?
The first proposal, while still being upmarket, appears like it would have fit into the surroundings quite well, what with only being a story or two taller than the surroundings.
Yep, totally get the Indie vibe mate. I dare say our paths crossed on more than a few occasions without realising it if that was you kind of thing, as essentially it was mine too! 🖤 I was always struck by the slight jeopardy of Camden Town as you struggled to work out which platform the train you wanted to catch was leaving from, but one can’t help be impressed by the sheer scale of it all really. Which is ironic as of course, it is more than a bit of a squeeze in the main station when it’s a bit busy. A design legacy of its primary function being a junction rather than a destination perhaps 🤔 I know what you mean about the slightly clinical edge and sanitised surfaces of the once slightly grubby yet endearing nature of the old market and food stalls, but I guess everything has to move on and I suspect that one day (probably after we’ve gone to the gig at the Great Roundhouse In The Sky) the new Camden Town station (after about four years of inconvenience as they make up for four decades of neglect) will arise from Green’s ashes and salute Camden Land with its kitchen themed bistros and market stalls with the cleanest punk waiting staff you ever did see 😜 In fairness, at least the new market is pretty decent and I think of sufficient ‘quirkyiness’ to deserve to be in Camden and I suspect I’ll not get gut rot from the modern food stalls like you always did from the dodgy pizza slice and pork sandwich stalls by the Ballroom…🙄 But yeah, I know what you mean mate. It’s a shame but them times is gone. Bloody good weren’t they though, eh? 😜 And all without a Sports Direct. How DID we manage? 🤷🏻♂️ Cheers mate 👍🍻🍀
I live near Camden Town and I dont even bother using that station. Most of the time its just an absolute annoyance to use, unless its early in the morning, but after 9am till whenever its nuts, especially if its a nice day.
The 'favourite' plan looks very 1930s to me because of all the singly-curved glass, slender-pillared balcony, and minimalist suggestion of an awning. Unlike many 1930s buildings, I like it. Chalk Farms is an interesting sight. I associate Leslie Green's stations with very rectangular shapes, if not outright squares. This is different. ... Oh, um, Leicester Square is also a Leslie Green design on a corner, but works better, to my mind. It doesn't try to have a rounded corner. Monopoly introduced me to the word "mall" when my mother informed me that Pell Mell should be pronounced "Pall Mall". Make of that what you will. :) Oh... why didn't I realize none of these stations would suit Camden Town? Probably because the 'favourite' beguiled me. :)
Completely agree with your views. I used to live in Camden for a few years, and yes, it would be a real travesty to build something like what they were proposing. Completely jarring to the rest of the area. As others have said, taking over the HSBC Branch, and extending the station that way, and retaining the local image would be my idea of a suitable approach.
Jago’s home looks exactly like I imagined it would.
Same scale too. I figured he was about 5 inches tall.
Quite a big office.
I was expecting Roly Mo from the Fimbles here as well. Are you sitting comfortably? Then we will begin!!!!
It does
I thought he lived in a small (ish) flat on the river
The whole of Camden Market is now up for sale. I'm sure Jago Hazzard with his newly minted UA-cam billions will be in for it to ensure it retains the indie vibe of old.
I hope they dont redevelop
@@annother3350 They will, the git that owns it at the moment priced loads of Stallholders out about 5 Years ago (A close friend had a stall in West Yard near the Dock Area for the Canal Taxis and he was given a Week to get out by the Owners after they sold the place he was in out from under him)
@@stephenhester9804 shocking - theyre going to kill it like they did greenwich
@@eastlancsesteem hope they do what? build some luxury flats there?!
@@annother3350 No. I hope they don't.
I'm surprised that HSBC right on the corner is still there but wouldn't be surprised if they - hsbc - gave up the site to tfl very easily indeed given the speed bank branches have disappeared most other places. A wrap around tube entrance blending in with the existing design would help access for more modest money than those 2000 ideas.
This has baffled me for years! HSBC (and every high street bank really) have shut down hundreds of branches all over the country yet they still have this one which if sold to TfL would create vital extra room for the tube station! Can anyone in-the-know explain why?
I imagine it's because the markets are, or were until recently, largely cash based, so there was enough demand for the kind of banking services that can't be done online.
@@luxford60 so couldn't they just move the bank to another retail unit nearby that isn't attached to the overcrowded station?
This branch is also useless. Try visiting many times, most of the services are not available.
My thoughts exactly! Keep the frontages of the current station and bank but knock the two together inside to create one building. Unless there's some kind of structural issue we don't know about it seems the obvious solution.
“Tomb Raider the live experience….something you can do for yourself at your local cemetery with a pick and a shovel” 😂😂😂😂👏👏👏
Camden Town is really a difficult problem for the whole line. TfL would love to expand overall throughput by just splitting Northern into two lines (so no normal switching at all) but then Camden Town would instantly become a major interchange point. But it's already one of the most overcrowded places on the whole network, so that would be a mess.
Doing the proposed Battersea->Clapham Junction extension would be extremely useful for the south of the network, but doing so without sorting the switching issue in Camden first would be a headache all its own.
So the whole line is hamstrung by the limitations in Camden. That said, the circa-2000 redevelopment plans were really dreadful. The 2018 plan at least was reasonable, but who knows if it will ever go ahead.
Extending it to Clapham Junction will make Camden Town so, so, so busy.
If the Northern line does get extended to Clapham Junction, would there be an infill station?
Looking at the map, there's a rather large gap between the two stations and it seems appropriate to put one on this route? Let's say at the edge of Battersea Park at Albert Bridge Road?
@@Pano1 Clapham Junction would just congest the entire line even more than it already is. That's why it hasn't happened. They need to sort bottlenecks around the rest of the network before that would even be practical. Just think how much traffic is already passing through the place!
@@francisrogers9824 Too close together, the distance between Battersea Power Station and Clapham Junction isn’t that far at all. Clapham Junxtion is in Battersea after all.
@@Kolavskaya Splitting would not make interchanging any better - almost certainly it would be worse - and is would not be practical without a major rebuild at platform level with a lot more inter-platform connections and probably something like the central tunnel at Bank to allow crowds to exit the platforms without having to walk down the platform. What splitting would do is to increase the numbers of trains per hour you can run and generally decrease congestion.
I'm definitely stuck in Art Deco styling....not enough of it in the world, needs to be revived!
Here's to Team Jago! ✊🏻🤜🏻🤛🏻🍻
In the early 1980s, I stayed with a friend whose flat was above a shop on Camden High Street specializing in "literature" and "personal items" of questionable taste. The Camden Town tube station was nearby, but always so gridlocked with human traffic that I almost always preferred trudging down to Warren Street or Euston Square. Your video informs me that the situation at Camden Town station has gone from bad to worse in the interceding 40 or so years. Perhaps what is worse is that the area has gone from questionable to almost respectable. Like you, I recall waking many times in Camden vowing to never drink again. University money well spent, that was. May you get well soon.
Maybe they should just "annexe" the HSBC, get some Oxblood tiles and extend the present station so it looks like its always been there. Might give sufficient space for the passenger throughput without being OTT.
I wonder how an express line might have worked? Under the present line but with minimal interchanges? Just one or more of the major terminii or would it have gone somewhere else? Hmmmm.
Unfortunately adding a bit of space in the front wouldn't provide any place for a new escalator or anything, so won't be of much help. To expand actual capacity you need to mostly go in the other direction
i think you’re right. eventually it’ll evolve into CamdenWorld, and a big sterile station will fit in perfectly
These proposals are what happens when a child reads too many comic books and then grows up to be an architect.
That first one has a bit of a bow-of-a-canal-boat look to it, which is at least thematically appropriate. The second one looks like a low rise Stark Tower in an alternate MCU where Iron Man had to follow development guidelines. The pod one reminds me of a particularly agressive fascinator.
"Mall" is American, but then again, so was Charles Yerkes.
The gauntlet has been hurled onto the firmament.
Drink!
I haven't heard people say I shouldn't say "mall", but I have heard people say I pronounce it wrong. I say it the same as Jago, and indeed, Americans. Rhymes with ball. But people say it should rhyme with pal.
@@PiousMoltar "Maul" for a shopping arcade seems OK as it is an American concept anyway. But "mal" for a street, as in Pall Mall, of course - not to mention THE Mall, at one end of which that old lady has her London gaff.
@@PiousMoltar My ex-Londoner Dad preferred 'pal'. Canadians like 'ball'.
6.12 reminds me of "place charles rogier" in Brussels, which in its center piece has a Starbucks off all things...
One should go steady on the nostalgia for Camden Town past - its easy to forget the old problems.
Early/mid 1960s, Parkway (from the tube station towards Regents Park and the Zoo) was largely Cypriot shops and cafes, Greek Cypriot one side, Turkish Cypriot on the other, with the occasional petrol bomb lobbed across. Just off Parkway stood the large Rowton House, a hostel for the many Irish labourers in the area. So there was little scope for the district to go downmarket.
I lived at nearby Archway, so was aware of the area's flaws. Having said that, its one of many transformed areas of London, with very dodgy histories - anyone remember Notting Hill from the same period?
Well,the Two Ronnies seemed to approve of the place:
ua-cam.com/video/m-lEA_Efl_4/v-deo.html
The way I'd have dealt with this - first - split the Northern Line in two and set up cross-platform interchange (this way the passengers changing trains have less to walk and take up less room in the station). Then, annex the bank, keep the building but put in a new entrance and set of escalators down to platform level. Do the same with the former deep-level shelter. Suddenly, boom, triple the exits and the interchange passengers don't get in the way all of a sudden, all while keeping the surface buildings basically intact from the first floor up (Inc the lovely art deco bank, which I like a lot) - plus, the patchwork look of the station would fit the vibe of Camden better than the space-age Canary Wharf style.
Just a concept though!
Even while sick at home, Jago still finds a way to come through with the content
We don’t deserve you, Jago! 😭 Get well soon!
"Tomb Raider Experience....."
"Something you can do in your local cemetery with a pick & shovel......."
Couldn't help but having a good chuckle at that! 😁😄😆
My family and I made the mistake of having our vacation to London in March of 2020. It wasn’t so bad Hampton Court and the Tower of London were empty and we literally had them to ourselves. My youngest daughter is a huge Dr marten boots fan and wanted a pair very badly from Camden. The store was already closed due to the luming pandemic but the street was empty. We decided to buy what we could from whoever was open. 4 shops got all of our business. Even with all that the tube station at Camden was still really busy.
Keeping in line with the book references, then as an analogy to the Tube station of Camden Town, it is not the cover of the book that needs updating, but its content. Considering the volume of passengers flowing through on a daily basis then the three causes of concern are: the lack of extra escalators; the bottleneck that forms at the exit where there are insufficient turnstiles (not sure what their proper name is); and that chaotic mess at the bottom of the escalator pointing to the various platforms in a disorienting way. It seems a real mystery to me that TfL have actually managed to conveniently overlooked what is very worryingly a recipe for disaster. Rather than a total facelift, which would not be practical and fair to the average person in this age of inflation, it would be truly rewarding to see the ethos of a bygone era where engineers were valued for their ingenuity. I wouldn’t overhaul the structure of the building through demolition, as that would also mean closing down the station, impacting the local economy. My proposal is to tender a design for a further escalator or two (or something alternative perhaps innovative), and when the lease runs out on the HSBC site then to restructure that part with a columned facade that creates a joined entrance/exit. Just an idea. But something needs to be done.
It took me a while to remember where I saw those proposed designs before... In the 1950s Eagle Annuals, in the Dan Dare stories. Hmmm...
That book must be a fun read. Those hypothetical designs are wild, and very much reflective of the strange, sci-fi design language of the early 2000s. There's a certain charm to them in that sense, but as an outside observer who has never been to London, I don't think they'd fit in with the look of the area. Still, I love videos about this sort of thing. Looking at concept art of projects and wondering what could have been is a lot of fun to me.
There's a simple, easy, and cheap solution. Use naming psychology! Rename Chalk Farm as Camden Roundhouse - it's actually closer to parts of the market. Rename Mornington Crescent as Camden South, Camden High Street, Camden Palace (a nearby venue), or even Camden Mornington. Re-open Kentish Town South as Camden North (yes, I know it will slow up Tube lines, maybe a part-time station?). Re-open Primrose Hill (why, why, why was it closed?) as Camden Market, Camden Lock, or Camden Stables, and change Camden Road to Camden East, and re-open Camden Road (Midland) as Camden Road (there is literally no station nearby, weird). Basically, use extant infrastructure to reduce pressure.
There are two big issues at Camden Town. Only the first (perhaps) is that covered here - the need to get more people in and out of the station. I guess there is a need for a larger gate line than the space currently allows for, and there definitely is a need for another set of escalators, but perhaps the real need is to have some space outside for people to arrive or depart from. That is the justification, I think, for switching the entrance to the north - the junction of Chalk Farm Road and Kentish Town Road forms a fairly sharp point - there is not much room. To be honest turning one of them into pedestrian-only would probably solve the problem.
Perhaps the real problem though is what Jago glossed over - the platform level. It is no big secret that TfL would like to split the Northern Line into two - the Bank branch going to Highgate etc and the Charing Cross branch going to Hampstead (or is it the other way around? I forget exactly). Getting rid of the Junctions at Camden Town would allow much better throughput. However, a rough estimate is that 50% of passengers would change trains. Camden can't cope. They need a lot more interchange tunnel connections.
The connection between the top and the bottom? Money. TfL want a big commercial development to pay for the whole thing. As you imply, this is hardly Camden. They have been fluffing around for a few decades on this. If they really want to split the line into two, they probably need to pay for it - think Bank!
I love the quaint little library model at the beginning of the video. Also - get well soon.
Pall-Mall was a game that was sort of a cross between golf and croquet. You needed a very long straight area to play it. One such court was the eponymously named London thoroughfare. When the game went out of fashion, a lot of the old courts became poplar market places. You have a nice long narrow street with shops either side. All very convenient. But that's why we now call collections of shops, malls. So really it's a very English term.
The elephants head is my favourite pub in C.T. Its grubby, chocker block, touristy, bohemian and I love sitting in the window and watching the sexy Punkets walking by.
“You’re the electric to my ballroom”. As ever a brilliantly informative video. Tremendous one liners.
40-50 years ago I lived in Belsize Park in a bedsit. Camden and Chalk Farm were part of my stamping ground. Camden had its market even then and it was worth visiting. Interesting 'late hippie' stuff. The Roundhouse was famed for its Sunday afternoon concerts. Camden Town was a dump but it was a gorgeous dump. Last time I visited was a couple of years ago and found that it's now an even more gorgeous dump particularly if you walk around looking above the shops. These proposals seem to be designed to wreck the dump: it'll be a real shame if they're implemented without serious public consultation.
Now that the Bank works are complete and the NLE is done, I can easily see this being TFL’s next big project - including splitting the Northern line. Get it done, TfL!
Splitting the Northern would add to congestion as 50% of those that wait for a train to their final destination at the stations before Camden town would now have to travel to Camden and change there.
Love those original tube stations on the Northern line. I remember getting off the National Express coach from Chesterfield at Golder's Green and getting on the tube.
I thought Camden Town was a Listed Building in a Conservation area...
The old Camden market is no more and a lot of the traders moved out in response to the higher rents that the brand stores were able to pay. The current owner of Camden market has put it up for sale and hopes to recapture the spirit of bygone days with his brand new development, Hawley Wharf, that has all the charm of airport shopping. As for the station, who knows? Whatever happens, the rebuilt station will have none of the flights of fancy proposed in Taylor's book.
Caught its dying ebb ten years ago... 😢
All the charm of airport shopping - tick.
2:51 - those windows!! it looks like something you'd transport cattle in!
Early underground car, at the London Transport Museum. I have no idea what they were thinking - normal railway cars had normal windows then. Maybe they thought that passengers would get freaked out about being in a lot of tunnels, but then there were long railway tunnels already.
@@emjayay - They were colloquially known as ‘Padded cells’. The designers thought that as they ran completely in tunnels, there was no need for windows! Each car had a gateman who would shout out the names of the stations as they arrived.
they were all a bit like 'a spaceship landed in Camden Town'! The most i know about Camden was how many bands cut their teeth in the area when there were many (in)famous pub venues, then later on into Britpop times where it became a fashionable place to get wasted (and be seen to be so by the hip press)
Admitting up front that I recognise how much of an insanely MASSIVE (and expensive) disruption it would be, I still feel that the only realistic solution for Camden Town is to completely rip out everything, relay the tracks as two separate lines/branches and rebuild the station so it can handle being both an interchange and a destination. Just make sure you hire an architect that designs a building in keeping with the feel of the local area.
They should keep the current facade, and build around it.
@ Reuben McKay I think that would not be necessary. They already have two pairs of platforms (one pair for each northern branch, and hence one pair for each line if they split them), and the tracks are already laid out in such a way as to allow parallel working without crossovers. The problem is the limited and awkward passenger access between the various platforms and between the platforms and the surface, so what is needed is better and more capacious interchange facilities and an extra set of escalators leading to an additional entrance/exit. BTW one current problem, i.e. that southbound passengers can't tell in advance which platorm their first train will go from, would be solved by the split in and of itself.
As an ex- resident of Camden Town (Chalk Farm Road from 1982 to 1989) it's rather sad to see what has become of the whole area. Used to be a great place, with lots of fishmongers, bakers, the Inverness Street food market as well as the Lock and the Stables. The tube was always chaos on weekends so I'd always head for Chalk Farm or Kentish Town to avoid getting trampled. Very interesting to see these designs, but not surprising to see that the station is still a mess.
Great video Jago. I spent a lot of the 70s and 80s in Camden. I worked on a comic book stall in the then tiny Camden Market. I used to buy 50s rock n roll records from Ted Carroll's Rock On records which was right by the station entrance on the Kentish Town Road side. Great memories.
I was there in 2011 and it was a great place to go during Saturday night! I hope it hasn't changed too much!
Nothbound platforms at Camden Town are split according to which line the trains are destined to go on, which is useful, wheras the southbound platforms are split, but determined by where the trains have come FROM, which is not so useful, but difficult to avoid during construction, hence the dot-matrix indicators on the concourse at the foot of the escalators.
If I'd known your videos before I went to London I would have visited Camden Town. Thanks for this so fantastic show of this part of London
OK you got me good with that "Tomb Raider" line... RIP me, died laffin.
Gawds I miss my travelin days... I absolutely _adore_ London, I wish I could live there.
Looking forward really Camden Town is the next thing that needs to be looked at on the TfL network
I was a child of the Northern Line (High Barnet branch), arriving in Finchley, aged nine, when we'd migrated from Dublin. You could still see the odd bowler hatted gentleman then and the rush hour ended promptly at 9.30 and trains would run almost empty up till 4pm. They were the cosy 1930s carriages of old and the rails didn't scream at one like they do now. Anyway, Camden Town was taking off us a hip place, but concentrated within the immediate lock area. By 1984/85 I worked for a year on Oval Road and would pass Alan bennett with his string shopping basket, no doubt out doing Thora Hirds shopping for her. The company I worked for was Club 18-30 Holidays and I even became a Clubrep. Top company and very professional in spite of the company's notoriety. I remember many a drunken night in the Elephant's Head. This was all when Camden was still on a scale. I can't remember when I might last have been there and I'm more than happy to leave it to my past.
Hounslow East was my local tube station until 1996. They've really improved it since!
I did smile at your "rant" at towards the end. The Tomb Raider comment should come with a disclaimer. Hilarious!
Ah, Camden Town Station. Only place I've ever been mugged and I never regretted living there for an instant
I think they need to build new Northern Line tunnels, get rid of the junction, have one cross platform interchange for Northbound trains and a second cross platform interchange for Southbound trains.
If they cut the escalators back, they could create a new concourse one level down and then dig up the entire road junction, in a similar style to Oxford Circus and Piccadilly Circus.
They could then compulsory purchase all the buildings on the corners of that junction, so that they could have multiple ways up from the underground concourse.
But in a sense that cross-platform interchange already exists. 1 and 3 northbound are on the upper level and 2 and 4 southbound are on the lower level. I suspect though that the current platforms and passageways are not wide enough for demand. From what I remember, people also sometimes wait to see which platform is the next southbound train for their desired route, which can cause localised congestion.
Very interesting - I like Camden - specially the Market - even thou I have not been there in many many years!!! I once drove to Camden to have a night out - forgot where I packed my car & proceeded to spend about 9 hrs looking for it but that is another story!!! 😮🚂🚂🚂
Get well soon, Jago!
Really interesting as always, and agreed on your views around the new station proposals at Camden. Also, that Tomb Raider gag really tickled me…
I have sympathy for the Camden Town designers. The more area they can get possession of on the surface the easier and faster it is to dig the station box. Excavating by keyhole like at Bond Street is going to get you into all sorts of trouble. What gets put over the station afterwards is probably just a secondary consideration and more for the accountants. The Sydney Metro is lucky that Sydney has an almost unlimited amount of totally nondescript buildings , that mainly date from the 70s , that can be resumed and demolished with not one person caring at all, so our station boxes are massive, even in the centre of cities.
the study reminds me of Mr Fogg's Residence. as for the market it was designated to use repurposed containers so as to be quickly dismantled, and the school still on Buck street still remains closed after the the new one was built on Hawley Street the new canalised shops on the old markets conceal considerable construction underground opposite the old MTV studios/ Viacom offices similar to the old storage of the accurately named ice wharf Wetherspoons, one great loss is the redevelopment of the Old Morrisons supermarket & the Camden catacombs beneath it. Also at the rear of Darwin Court apartments on Gloucester Road opposite the Foxton's estate agent you would find the old steam engine rail entrance to the Hampstead line which runs under the Rotunda complex (the cylinderical Architecture is a giveaway as being the Vertical shaft) next to Gloucester Crescent
Another excellent piece of social commentary…Tomb raider experience…loved that one.,
Looking at the discussions of the impact on Camden Town, as we all know by the time funds are raised, plans approved and construction started all the "cool kids" will be going to Osterley or Tooting Bec. Camden Town is where the cabbies take the tourists from Iowa.
"Hindsight is 2020" As it's 2022, and 2020 is now in the past, it is entirely behind us.
Thank goodness!
Great suggestion for the yoof of today at @10:28 Jago. I heartily approve!
Used Camden Town station on my last trip to London. (God, that makes me feel so old typing that...) Never made it up to Camden Lock (which I wanted to see), or the market, but my mate and I did stop at Poppy's for some lovely fish and chips. (Don't at me, I also love me some Master's Superfish on Waterloo Road.)
TfL has already bought a lot of plots between Stucley Place, Buck Street and Kentish Town Road in order to build the new primary ticket hall and entrance / exit. The current station building would serve as a secondary entrance / exit. There's just not enough money to redevelop the station's internal layout. And don't forget, redevelopment of the station's platforms and concourses is also a necessity in order to seperate both the eastern section of the Northern line from the western section.
Surely the key is to redevelop the station below ground, which is what has happened and is happening at Bank, although this might have to happen at a slightly different location as shutting the northern line for months at this location is not an option. Building a new second entrance would therefore make sense, as this could be the replacement temporary entrance whilst the original station is reworked, to then provide a final solution
Camden in the 90's early 00"s was such a great place.. I lived and worked there. I remember the plans to change the tube station. I've not been there in about 20 years and assumed the work had probably been done. Great video... your dry sense of humour is perfect as ever. thanks.
Thanks!
One day about twenty(!) years ago now I was on a trip to London and visited Camden. On returning to Camden Town station there was a guy with a rather magnificent handlebar moustache manning the gate, only letting in so many people at a time to avoid a risk of crushing.
Grandson of Yerkes ?
That was cool. I used to bank there when it was a Midlands! Loved living in Camden Town.
The environment of Camden Town, with all its clubs and other entertainment reminds of notorious "Block E" in Minneapolis, where I grew up. The whole block was flattened in 1988, and nothing would replace it besides a parking lot until 2001. It was a shopping and hotel complex of no special merit, that became a desolate failure in 10 years. At least the gentrification of Camden Town isn't leading to too much demolition, just more expensive venues going into the existing buildings.
I always try to avoid Camden Town because it's full of tourists at daytime and druggies when the night falls. I keep hearing stories about what a cool place it used to be but I can't see it there now.
Me too.
‘Something you can do at your local cemetery with a pick and shovel’ Hilarious 😂😂
Can you imagine the S-ilt we'd be in, in the summer? Glass and steel with barely any mass to absorb heat, so everything goes directly into the ticket hall and creates a huge pocket of hot air. It'd have to be shut during the day, at the rate at which the heatwaves are going.
With you Jago on everything you said about Camden Town area/market. I guess we are a similar age. Man it has changed. Sigh. I guess one thing you can say is that at least it didn't totally close (like Kensington) and the Electric Ballroom was saved.
One of the things I miss most about London is drunkenly stumbling from Electric Ballroom down to Mornington Crescent at 3am on a sunday morning. fingers crossed they don't have the funds to do much for a while yet.
Camden Town, oh those glorious (are you sure?) formative teenage personal development time spent learning that because a place has a reputation for cool, doesn't mean it is anything beyond an expensive tourist trap. Although I did purchase a brilliant biker leather jacket for £40 which was one of the gems I got from the stolen gear/second hand market.
I see the grafitti HELCH at 10.44, there's a huge on of those on the railway bridge across the M25 between jcts 16 and 17, it replaced give peas a chance and the Queen Mother is hip. They go back awhile as you can imagine. I always wonder how the hell they get up there and do it without being seen, especially with all the CCTV these days.
"Loathsome sickness"
A wonderfully Shakespearean phrase.
"Electricity to my ball room" - now *that* would solve your blocked tubes in a very short time!
Hope you'll be back to full steam in the shortest time dear Jago 😊
I remember the proposed Camden Town rebuild and Ken Livingstone was pushing for this unfortunately there was so much red tape and lack of money, there was also tramlink planned between Camden Town and Peckham as well shortly after this.
How interesting, I was in Camden Town last Saturday, sadly too crowded for me, but might visit again during the week. Market ridiculously expensive too🙄
Good to see a shot of the Electric Ballroom. Played there in the late 70s. A real rock and roll toilet!
Great nights down the Camden Falcon as a teenager in the late 80's. Now sadly closed.
As you said, Jago...' Ahh, memories !! '
A Sports Direct in Camden borders on insanity
I felt like that was my “Rome has fallen” moment.
Love visiting Camden! It does have a great vibe to it. Also, love to be able to hang out at Hawley Arms & Camden Market. Hope there will be facelift for the tube station! Thanks for the share!
I reckon the smart thing to do would be to keep the surrounding buildings, gut them, and expand the station into them. It would do the required job while keeping the character of the area. Of course it would be more difficult than just demolishing the whole lot and starting again, but it would still probably end up a lot cheaper. However, the politicians might not like it as there would be less opportunity for kickbacks from the companies contracted to redevelop the place.
I agree with rebuilding Camden Town station from scratch. It's a nightmare to use!
since its 4 bays wide they could make those all open entrances with the skylights above and redo the interior, preserving the exterior!
These stations are so tall they could probably just build an elevated railway.
Replacing the HSBC on the corner with a big entrance and gate lins and closing the side entrances would likely do a lot to help as currently you get congestion at the gate line as people try to figure out which way they're meant to go, by HSBC becoming the entrance, you'd just go straight in and down the escalators, no turns or anything, then at the apex of the intersection in from of the HSBC you could have signage pointing people in the right direction as they exit the station
Maybe, but I think it would be a fair bit of work, and it would just move the bottle neck to the single escalator in each direction. Maybe something to do if we got a second entrance/exit and made the original, exit only permanently
Camden Town and the Battersea Power Station redevelopment were by far my favourite areas in London
Jago, have you ever considered doing a video on the proposed split of the Northern Line, which would include a mandatory rebuild of the Camden Town station? Or maybe how the split could be done while leaving the station as is? (maybe with interchanges only in Euston and Kennington?)
I'd thought this video was going to be about that
I think Mornington Crescent found be expanded to be an interchange as well
@@Inkyminkyzizwoz same, actually
@@seansoraghan3245 I believe Mornington Crescent is only on one branch? So they could do an OSI between MC and CT, with MC on one branch and CT only on the other branch
@@miguelbarreira5005
Mornington station sits between both branches but is only connected to one
My idea is to connect to both branches the distance is fairly short
As an American, I support drawing a distinction between malls and shopping centers/centres. In our usage, they're two very different types of development. Basically, a mall is built around stores that open onto an enclosed/pedestrianised space-a la the Westfields and Bluewaters of the world-and a shopping center is designed for being able to drive right up to the door of whatever store you want to go to. Looking at aerial photos, there are a few American-style shopping centers in the Beckton/Gallion's Reach area.
'... a shopping center is designed for being able to drive right up to the door of whatever store you want to go to.' In this country, that's your local high street and it's seldom possible to park outside the shops.
But a small crappy shopping center is a "strip mall".
Damn! "Tomb Raiders replicated in your local cemetery with a pick and shovel". I sprayed ramen noodles on my monitor!
6:22 Not keen myself on the "we were crashed into by a flying saucer" design.
Sports Direct says it all. I wonder how many of the independent stalls are actually part of a larger company sharing staff, warehouses and pricing.
Electric Ballroom was my 3rd favourite nightclub in London, "back in the day".
Pods are what peas grow in, and things were deffo better, when I were a lad, so there!
Jago...I didn't visit the Electric Ballroom, my venue of choice in the mid-70s was the Roundhouse watching bands such as Gong and Camel, I still got drunk though!
Being from North America myself, I have to agree with your use of the term shopping mall. That is exactly what the design looked like.
I remember the squabble over this, though I never managed to make it to the Ballroom as Full Tilt ended and when visiting London I'd usually end up in the Devonshire Arms followed by Hotel Slimelight (Angel Station, left left and left). Also remember getting pieced on a whim in Cold Steel
Last time I went to Camden it was very different, much more big brands and it doesn't surprise me that things like Sports Direct and Tomb Raider have moved in. The Goths seem to have decamped to Holloway and Archway, not sure where the punks have gone. Underworld is still there though! I also bet that Cyberdog still needs a second mortgage!
Now it's brands and hipsters maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing to rebuild the station?
The first proposal, while still being upmarket, appears like it would have fit into the surroundings quite well, what with only being a story or two taller than the surroundings.
Found my favorite pair of Doc Marten's at British Boot Company in Camden Town.
Yep, totally get the Indie vibe mate. I dare say our paths crossed on more than a few occasions without realising it if that was you kind of thing, as essentially it was mine too! 🖤
I was always struck by the slight jeopardy of Camden Town as you struggled to work out which platform the train you wanted to catch was leaving from, but one can’t help be impressed by the sheer scale of it all really. Which is ironic as of course, it is more than a bit of a squeeze in the main station when it’s a bit busy. A design legacy of its primary function being a junction rather than a destination perhaps 🤔
I know what you mean about the slightly clinical edge and sanitised surfaces of the once slightly grubby yet endearing nature of the old market and food stalls, but I guess everything has to move on and I suspect that one day (probably after we’ve gone to the gig at the Great Roundhouse In The Sky) the new Camden Town station (after about four years of inconvenience as they make up for four decades of neglect) will arise from Green’s ashes and salute Camden Land with its kitchen themed bistros and market stalls with the cleanest punk waiting staff you ever did see 😜
In fairness, at least the new market is pretty decent and I think of sufficient ‘quirkyiness’ to deserve to be in Camden and I suspect I’ll not get gut rot from the modern food stalls like you always did from the dodgy pizza slice and pork sandwich stalls by the Ballroom…🙄
But yeah, I know what you mean mate. It’s a shame but them times is gone. Bloody good weren’t they though, eh? 😜
And all without a Sports Direct. How DID we manage? 🤷🏻♂️
Cheers mate 👍🍻🍀
I live near Camden Town and I dont even bother using that station. Most of the time its just an absolute annoyance to use, unless its early in the morning, but after 9am till whenever its nuts, especially if its a nice day.
The 'favourite' plan looks very 1930s to me because of all the singly-curved glass, slender-pillared balcony, and minimalist suggestion of an awning. Unlike many 1930s buildings, I like it.
Chalk Farms is an interesting sight. I associate Leslie Green's stations with very rectangular shapes, if not outright squares. This is different. ... Oh, um, Leicester Square is also a Leslie Green design on a corner, but works better, to my mind. It doesn't try to have a rounded corner.
Monopoly introduced me to the word "mall" when my mother informed me that Pell Mell should be pronounced "Pall Mall". Make of that what you will. :)
Oh... why didn't I realize none of these stations would suit Camden Town? Probably because the 'favourite' beguiled me. :)
Completely agree with your views. I used to live in Camden for a few years, and yes, it would be a real travesty to build something like what they were proposing. Completely jarring to the rest of the area. As others have said, taking over the HSBC Branch, and extending the station that way, and retaining the local image would be my idea of a suitable approach.
Oh you absolute bugger. I've just had to clean red wine off my laptop screen because of your Tomb Raider line. Well played!
The newest proposal with the second entrance is quite nice!
Yes feels like we need a part two on the latest proposal which has some clever thinking; Hasnt TFL bought an old school building there as well?