This video made me google Fortran, and... it's actually under active development with a modern website, playground, tutorials etc all in one place. It's listing on TIOBE index isn't a lie at all...
@@michaeljb3107R? I actually threw up a bit in my mouth, that language is straight arcane goofiness, and this is from someone who thinks Bash is an aight language.
Definity! I have used C# for about 20 years. But I've worked at banks and financial institutions and they still use COBOL and Fortran on their mainframes.
Only as long as hiring and training new COBOL developers are cheaper than the cost of rewriting into something more modern like C++ or Rust. Gonna be a while but hardly forever ever, and some modules are probably already being rewritten as we discuss this.
Man, I learnt Logo back in Elementary school. It was neat making turtles draw on the canvas with a Lisp-like (as I later found out) language, teaching how to think with loops and functions.
Julia is actually amazing. Opinion: When it comes to data science and scientific computing Julia is what python should be. This is mostly by merits of being the more recently designed language.
Actually I don't understand why Python is up there only because of Pytroch ? I mean Python is like driving a car with pulled handbrakes only the C backend API are fast . It is the slowest of all languages I know.
@@Fiercesoulking Unfortunately it has a lot of momentum behind it now, its very simple to use because of massive work that's been done to use C based libraries as python wrapped dependencies. Python has the main advantage of being simple, that attracts most of new programmers, some actual new teens and some people from other fields like math, science, art etc. its like the meetup place for all domains who want to program.
Functional languages often have a better feel for data science, scientific computing, or AI/ML but unfortunately there's not momentum behind bootstrapping the tooling for it.
@@Fiercesoulking Python is there because it has a rich data science ecosystem (pandas, numpy, matplotlib, scikit-learn, opencv, scipy...). It's not the best choice for anything, but it's a passable choice for most things. That puts it squarely in the "lowest effort" bucket for when someone needs to whip up something quick. What it has over julia is that it actually works, where julia is extremely buggy, and unusable for production. In contrast, it's possible (if ill-advised) to use python in production.
TIOBE didn't think the people saying "don't use TIOBE" were convincing enough, so they put Scratch as one of the top 10 programming languages. Also, please all do some regular searches about Scratch, let's see if we can make it the number one.
Top Tier Content: let's milk garbage data (google searches) and make a tier list. I love how they outright state that you hopefully didn't do (base decisions on this list) what they made their MO (advice you in basing decisions on their list).
Hey, I programmed in Logo once! I was 8 and made a square with a loop 😂. There was also a variant of Logo driving a sailboat over a procedurally generated map of (completely random) wind speeds in an educational program that my dad downloaded instead of just letting us access the internet. Gcompris was actually my childhood and I wouldn't have it any other way.
*That list of related languages in full:* G#, G, F#, F, E, D#, D, C#, C, B, A# "E#" was never released because it could not be independently tuned and the functionality was already available in "F". "B#" was deprecated for being too meme-able. The "A" programming language was dropped for using both definite and indefinite objects in the same line.
Fortran is still massively popular in physics, biology, and chemistry research. Python and Fortran. Julia is slowly growing in these sectors (particularly in physics), and in the next few years, it might replace Fortran.
Almost completely? The models you mean? No new code in my institute is written in Fortran. Just the most performance critical parts have not been ported to python yet, because performance. So much of weather and climate is just data analysis.
@@MaximilianG. You say "yet" as if to suggest a port to python might happen in the future, but your next clause "because performance" kind of indicates it never will be.
Java but on Windows, graphical language for children, and a language that is currently running only on a few satellites flying through the Solar System - your top choices for a great career in software
@@Wielorybkek I detest fortran but what you said is just false lol. There's still plenty of fortran code running out there, even if there shouldn't be.
You know, when one keeps in mind how the create the chart (how much it's searched online), the chart actually makes sense. The highest languages are the ones which are either: - barely used but still needed from time to time so that you need to look up everything because you don't know it - hard and have a lot of foot guns - have shitty documentation - are for beginners - a combination of the others
This. Kids learning Scratch are going to be searching a lot of stuff online, just like anyone who has to write assembly language for some obscure microcontroller. The rankings make sense if you know it's just an aggregation of "most searched for languages". I'm surprised Python is so high, considering their documentation is top notch. Whenever I forget some Python API, I'm usually only a single search result away from good documentation, so there's very little reason to keep searching for other websites.
The ratings are based on searches in search engines. This leans the results towards newbies who have to look up everything or people looking into new languages. So it’s an interesting metric but I reckon it reflects students looking up answers to their tutorials more than established devs, who in my experience know how to use in editor docs or just directly read the docs for the language and libraries they’re using. No need to search for that stuff.
I don't know how this index is created but I've realised that different bubbles of tech have their favourites. I started programming with embedded systems so I learnt c++ and assembly. I wanted to learn mobile app development and learnt java then extended to springboot. Currently a backend developer with JavaScript... All I've noticed is, if you're deep in any tech ecosystem you'll be surprised to find out how popular a language or piece of technology is in another tech ecosystem...
Huge in data science, but percentage-wise how much of the totality of software engineering is in data science? Probably less than 1%. The issue is data science requires very high skill factor, which is lacking in most devs.
@@potato9832 Data science isn’t software engineering, and programming languages aren’t just used for software engineering. People do research with R, for example. Programming languages are also used for teaching people programming, which is why I think it’s reasonable to call Scratch a top language even though it’s not one you’d use to build an application. I certainly was exposed to programming in part through scratch, and I suspect that many folks in the industry at this point have interacted with it at some point in their childhood too. That’s doesn’t mean I’m defending the TIOBE index, to be clear. I agreed with all the points of the article, but there were some dismissive comments when talking about languages on the list that I thought were very biased towards the perspective of a professional web developer.
Consider how many people own Excel out there (~1 Bn). Now consider how VBA is the main language for automation in excel. I imagine that's why VB is so high... Even if only 1% used VBA, that's 10m devs, equivalent to Python and JS today. Of course many of these will be using it out of necessity, rather than choice though.
Someone I know who prototypes hardware for a living says that if you're building something from the ground up there's unfortunately no way to escape C... and although you might not have to hand-roll ASM, you WILL have to understand it, probably alongside machine code. "These are Your instructions that You put onto the chip, after all". And although I myself have no experience in those areas i tend to strongly agree.
I've actually learned logo in primary school, a bit over 30 years ago, on some Spectrum-like computer. It was fun, but haven't heard of it since. Moved to Commodore Basic from there. :D
I have nothing but the utmost respect for the Delphi developer community and I unconditionally support their efforts to manipulate the TIOBE index. The TIOBE index is really only good for entertainment purposes. However, if by Visual Basic, they mean Visual Basic for Applications (i.e. the scripting language for Microsoft Office), I am 100% sure that more people write VBA than write Swift. lol Anyhow, my mom's first tech job was writing some dialect of Pascal for an insurance software company in Texas in the late 1990s/early 2000s. That was well before Anders Hejlsberg gave birth to the behemoths C# and TypeScript.
I absolutely despise VBA, it was technically my first language back when I was an analyst (wasn’t even allowed to run Python scripts at that company). VBA and macros let me get my work done in a single hour every day but was like pulling teeth to work with.
@@Beastintheomlet That's painfully relatable. I feel like most people who get into VBA have two things in common: 1. Lots of data to process and reports to generate. 2. Literally no other language available to them. I once needed a GUI at my old job, so I wrote a Vue 2 app inside an "HTML Application" (.hta file). It required some polyfills to Microsoft's ancient JScript engine, but it technically worked.
@@ISKLEMMI I actually found the language to be somewhat okay, but because you need to run your code in their program you have absolutely no tooling except for some kind of console log functionality. Also documentation tends to be absolutely terrible.
This (as someone who literally participated in country-wide logo programming competitions in elementary school) makes me both sad but also curious how prime never heard of logo 🙂 Also its pretty cool that the original guy in the 60s actually made robot turtle draw like that - just we all used software only. Its for drawing things visually with commands. Its bad to say don't learn ADA - you should definetely look at it if you think rust is safe haha (or eiffel or B-method lang)
Was thinking the same! But I was also surprised to find out cobol was still a thing a couple years ago BUT because financial institutions didn't want to mess with their original code base dating 40 years back, what I kinda understand.
How in the sweet Mike did you ever attend an elementary school that offered participation in a national programming competition to its students? That doesn't even sound possible. Kudos to whoever set that up.
@@lemon__snicker5973 Hungarian school system... haha.... This is school in my little 3500 inhabitant village! But we had very good teachers actually. In elementary school we started IT in 4th grade (it was in the late 90s not now - now earlier): - Comlogo and and regular informatics + boolean logic - Later I remember this programming language that had Hungarian commands for loops and ifs and such (it was called "word" - good luck trying to google it lol) - There was also hardware - just about how to upgrade your machine, what card is what etc. In high school: - Basic electronics (with soldering included) and gate circuits like adders and simple control - 8088 Assembly with 256 bytes of ram - Turbo pascal (but in meantime I went on and spent heavy asming at home - like writing little OS, games, 3D engine, particle system etc. for years not touching just asm) - Linux (the teacher installed gentoo on a room full of machines). - Mysql on Linux - Kylix (it was borlands free delphi-like on Linux): to learn OOP. Uni: - C, C++, Java (with EE) and 20 other languages including haskell, ADA, Eiffel, Forth, Factor and bunch of others. Heavy focus on algorithms and multithreading. - Heavy maths and compsci - after all the course was originally called "Programmer Mathematitian" (and when we went it was just renamed to CS but not yet changed the math-heavy parts to be less heavy ;-) - Optimization and Operating system low level stuff etc. - ACM ICPC competitions: But we never had as cool real focus on this as Polish people do: They often win world champion level so our regional finals usually is a killing spree by them and Bjelorussia, Croatia... I only heard one team of ours who went further (not us). So its a tough eastern europian region. It was a good school system - well preparing us. For algs as I say there are even better systems like locally the Polish or globally the Chinese/Russian... Otherwise this was pretty "mid" experience. I was not really "top" just were around the top people. Oh and all this in a totally free education system ;-)
I think they count searches like " programming language". Which means that Go - as a quite easy to understand language - will naturally receive less searches than " programming language". It's a really strange way of measuring popularity.
Hand written ASM is used in game dev for some optimizations and kernel development, so it *is* used, albeit not much. A very large portion of the architecture code in the Linux kernel is just rawdogged asm
A kictstarter project for the Spectrum Next was delivered recently, a refresh of a popular UK microcomputer from the 1980s. This might have had some impact on Assembly Language searches for the Z80 chip-set. I know I've done my fair share of trying to learn Z80 assembly throughout the lockdown.
CEO was like so these are the best languages by page count on Google search but but but we are obviously wrong here. A good title for the article is "TIOBE index 2024, just don't use us"
"R is a good programming language" said no one ever, except the sadist who decided that biology students at my uni needed to write their own graphs in a "real" programming language _and chose _*_R._* WTF?!? As a CS student, I took one look at the example for "how to write a graph in R" and decided that biology clearly wasn't for me.
@@isodoubIet the real issue is that I don't understand the arrow notation in R: does it push things onto a stack? Does it overwrite? What happens if you assign a variable to another variable, do you get a reference or a copy? Why is it an arrow in the first place and not an equals sign like literally every other language in existence? What does the axis(at=1.5) do? What even is that argument? Why does literally every tutorial I go to have an entirely different method of doing things? Well, "entirely different" might be a stretch, but they sure look different. I'll admit that my issues are skill issues, but the language _looks_ arcane and I ain't trying to spend 5 perfectly good weeks learning another arcane language when I've spent years becoming mediocre at simple languages like C.
I think what people oversee that already at the 12th place we hit 1% and below alone the error margin should be higher so I wouldn't read too much into it. About the rise of C# it make sense Java got killed by Oracle and the dependency hell created by the JEE devs. JS has already hit the same wall on dependency hell created by similar devs but we don't see the consequences yet. C# point is you can do everything: develop for all platforms, the inheritance works way better because you need to mark the function as virtual to be able to overwrite them and on nuget you don't post mini projects which then end up in the dependency chain. Actually don't believe in the hype or those devs who want to sell their special solutions will ruin it like they did with Java and JS ..sad but true.
Assembly is the only input of the cpu, so what ever language/compiler that writes the best assembly is the best Programming language. The script language that requires low effort to write in, is the best script language. (aka choose the best tool (script language) for you to the work). So on.
After seeing the TIOBE index I threw away the rust book and signed up for a year-long $100k course in Fortran. Best decision I ever made. (I haven't actually got a job yet and I'm living on the streets at the moment, but I'm sure one will pop up soon)
It's a query language, more declarative than procedural. Something like Transact-SQL or PL/SQL would be more akin to what you would think of as "typical" programming language.
Not dying at all, we still are active (same with our brothers over at Free Pascal, the development definitely hasn't slowed down). You can still use it, you have a community edition too right now (or choose Lazarus on the Free Pascal side)
TIOBE is not a about trends in devs wishlists or pipe dreams, it is about wide "industry" including people searching for knowledge/help in mantainig very legacy systems. Seems like TypeScript is not so widely adopted or... it easy to use and don't have many problems to search help for....
Just a side note, I think you may have misread Fortran and Scratch being numbers 3 and 2 on the list. As far as I can tell those two along with C# were top 3 in terms of growth, not usage/popularity. C# was additionally made language of the year, which I believe may have been what caused the confusion. Orrr I misread lmao
I’ve dealt with NASM and MASM(versions of assembly) in exploit development so it’s still used there but have not had a single use case outside of that. It may have ranked so high due to script kiddies looking up reverse tcp shell in NASM or MASM.
Officially it’s number 3. I’d expect a Fortran user to understand the numbers presented here… Unless you haven’t misunderstood and are intentionally ignoring the complex analysis being done by Tiobe
I have a coding challenge for you. You should make a face tracking software with an ai that you train on your face alone, that can accurately estimate when you are reading an article that you believe is written by AI. Like a rubegolberg turning test
That's not remotely comparable. The Steam survey is based on actual Steam installations and real hardware in use. This language index is based on google searches, if that same method was used for films then Morbius would be one of the top movies. That's not representative of anything.
"C programming language" = 8.570.000.000 results "python programming language" = 310.000.000. "C" is #1 until "I" programming language takes over, with "H" language probably being ahead of Typescript by 14 places.
С# is now officially a Scratch and Fortran tier level programming language
Fortran is fast!
C# let’s go! Let’s gooooooooo
@@Kane0123let's GO
This video made me google Fortran, and... it's actually under active development with a modern website, playground, tutorials etc all in one place. It's listing on TIOBE index isn't a lie at all...
@@michaeljb3107R? I actually threw up a bit in my mouth, that language is straight arcane goofiness, and this is from someone who thinks Bash is an aight language.
Time to switch from javascript to Scratch, sounds like an improvement tbh
There is a shortage of Scratch senior developers.😁
Would still rather use Scratch than JS
lets be real here, if you can write COBOL and FORTRAN you will forever have a job programming legacy systems for the government
Definity! I have used C# for about 20 years. But I've worked at banks and financial institutions and they still use COBOL and Fortran on their mainframes.
Which explains much about government IT departments.
Only as long as hiring and training new COBOL developers are cheaper than the cost of rewriting into something more modern like C++ or Rust.
Gonna be a while but hardly forever ever, and some modules are probably already being rewritten as we discuss this.
that's also use in banks
Only in United States and maybe Europe
I vote for Logo as a solid contender for the next year's number one!
Turtle gang
Man, I learnt Logo back in Elementary school. It was neat making turtles draw on the canvas with a Lisp-like (as I later found out) language, teaching how to think with loops and functions.
Julia is actually amazing. Opinion: When it comes to data science and scientific computing Julia is what python should be. This is mostly by merits of being the more recently designed language.
Actually I don't understand why Python is up there only because of Pytroch ? I mean Python is like driving a car with pulled handbrakes only the C backend API are fast . It is the slowest of all languages I know.
@@FiercesoulkingPython is there because of NumPy and SciPy, not PyTorch.
@@Fiercesoulking Unfortunately it has a lot of momentum behind it now, its very simple to use because of massive work that's been done to use C based libraries as python wrapped dependencies. Python has the main advantage of being simple, that attracts most of new programmers, some actual new teens and some people from other fields like math, science, art etc. its like the meetup place for all domains who want to program.
Functional languages often have a better feel for data science, scientific computing, or AI/ML but unfortunately there's not momentum behind bootstrapping the tooling for it.
@@Fiercesoulking Python is there because it has a rich data science ecosystem (pandas, numpy, matplotlib, scikit-learn, opencv, scipy...). It's not the best choice for anything, but it's a passable choice for most things. That puts it squarely in the "lowest effort" bucket for when someone needs to whip up something quick.
What it has over julia is that it actually works, where julia is extremely buggy, and unusable for production. In contrast, it's possible (if ill-advised) to use python in production.
MatLab by MathWorks, Mathematica by Wolfram, and Maple by Maple are programming languages and have licenses. They are designed for mathematical work.
You should add "Delphi programming" in the description of all your videos. Let's go Delphi number 1
TIOBE didn't think the people saying "don't use TIOBE" were convincing enough, so they put Scratch as one of the top 10 programming languages.
Also, please all do some regular searches about Scratch, let's see if we can make it the number one.
Top Tier Content: let's milk garbage data (google searches) and make a tier list.
I love how they outright state that you hopefully didn't do (base decisions on this list) what they made their MO (advice you in basing decisions on their list).
Hey, I programmed in Logo once! I was 8 and made a square with a loop 😂. There was also a variant of Logo driving a sailboat over a procedurally generated map of (completely random) wind speeds in an educational program that my dad downloaded instead of just letting us access the internet. Gcompris was actually my childhood and I wouldn't have it any other way.
*That list of related languages in full:*
G#, G, F#, F, E, D#, D, C#, C, B, A#
"E#" was never released because it could not be independently tuned and the functionality was already available in "F". "B#" was deprecated for being too meme-able.
The "A" programming language was dropped for using both definite and indefinite objects in the same line.
Scratch - a programming "language" for children to make them hate programming with passion.
For Real man
Why so negative? IMHO: For my son scratch was a decent playground getting started.
Scratch ignited my passion for programming
Fortran is still massively popular in physics, biology, and chemistry research. Python and Fortran.
Julia is slowly growing in these sectors (particularly in physics), and in the next few years, it might replace Fortran.
Weather & climate is almost completely Fortran.
Almost completely? The models you mean? No new code in my institute is written in Fortran. Just the most performance critical parts have not been ported to python yet, because performance.
So much of weather and climate is just data analysis.
@@MaximilianG. You say "yet" as if to suggest a port to python might happen in the future, but your next clause "because performance" kind of indicates it never will be.
@@isodoubIet If we ever change the code again, we'll have to choose what to so with it. But no one can speak Fortran anymore nowadays ~
Java but on Windows, graphical language for children, and a language that is currently running only on a few satellites flying through the Solar System - your top choices for a great career in software
Bro C# is not Windows-only anymore, quit your strawmanning
but you have no problem with the statement about Fortran? I think you missed the point of my comment
@@Wielorybkek I detest fortran but what you said is just false lol. There's still plenty of fortran code running out there, even if there shouldn't be.
You know, when one keeps in mind how the create the chart (how much it's searched online), the chart actually makes sense.
The highest languages are the ones which are either:
- barely used but still needed from time to time so that you need to look up everything because you don't know it
- hard and have a lot of foot guns
- have shitty documentation
- are for beginners
- a combination of the others
Idk what he is ranting about but this list makes sense for "most searched programming language including non-programmers like children and scientist"
This. Kids learning Scratch are going to be searching a lot of stuff online, just like anyone who has to write assembly language for some obscure microcontroller. The rankings make sense if you know it's just an aggregation of "most searched for languages". I'm surprised Python is so high, considering their documentation is top notch. Whenever I forget some Python API, I'm usually only a single search result away from good documentation, so there's very little reason to keep searching for other websites.
The ratings are based on searches in search engines. This leans the results towards newbies who have to look up everything or people looking into new languages. So it’s an interesting metric but I reckon it reflects students looking up answers to their tutorials more than established devs, who in my experience know how to use in editor docs or just directly read the docs for the language and libraries they’re using. No need to search for that stuff.
The result leans towards nothing. That metric is useless, complete trash. Newbies don't use cobol and fortran (hopefully).
I don't know how this index is created but I've realised that different bubbles of tech have their favourites. I started programming with embedded systems so I learnt c++ and assembly. I wanted to learn mobile app development and learnt java then extended to springboot. Currently a backend developer with JavaScript...
All I've noticed is, if you're deep in any tech ecosystem you'll be surprised to find out how popular a language or piece of technology is in another tech ecosystem...
Prime is looking at this with a clear bias, R is huge in data science and data science was one of the biggest growing fields of the past decade.
Huge in data science, but percentage-wise how much of the totality of software engineering is in data science? Probably less than 1%. The issue is data science requires very high skill factor, which is lacking in most devs.
@@potato9832 Data science isn’t software engineering, and programming languages aren’t just used for software engineering. People do research with R, for example. Programming languages are also used for teaching people programming, which is why I think it’s reasonable to call Scratch a top language even though it’s not one you’d use to build an application. I certainly was exposed to programming in part through scratch, and I suspect that many folks in the industry at this point have interacted with it at some point in their childhood too.
That’s doesn’t mean I’m defending the TIOBE index, to be clear. I agreed with all the points of the article, but there were some dismissive comments when talking about languages on the list that I thought were very biased towards the perspective of a professional web developer.
Consider how many people own Excel out there (~1 Bn). Now consider how VBA is the main language for automation in excel. I imagine that's why VB is so high... Even if only 1% used VBA, that's 10m devs, equivalent to Python and JS today. Of course many of these will be using it out of necessity, rather than choice though.
Someone I know who prototypes hardware for a living says that if you're building something from the ground up there's unfortunately no way to escape C... and although you might not have to hand-roll ASM, you WILL have to understand it, probably alongside machine code. "These are Your instructions that You put onto the chip, after all". And although I myself have no experience in those areas i tend to strongly agree.
Opened Scratch's wiki page, apparently they have pictures of dinosaurs in their IDE. Should be #1.
"Our rankings don't measure anything understandable."
"You use our rankings to plan your career"
???
Profit.
develop in Delphi XE 12 and Lazarus/free Pascal
this is popular in Germany, Eastern Europe and Brazil.
I've actually learned logo in primary school, a bit over 30 years ago, on some Spectrum-like computer. It was fun, but haven't heard of it since. Moved to Commodore Basic from there. :D
I went through some COBOL for work and actually the way memory is handled is pretty interesting.
Idk if I would enjoy using it full-time tho.
Delphi is widely use in systems for groceries stores in Brazil
And Oracle's in Greece.
C# mentioned LET'S GO!
GO mentioned!!!
I have nothing but the utmost respect for the Delphi developer community and I unconditionally support their efforts to manipulate the TIOBE index.
The TIOBE index is really only good for entertainment purposes. However, if by Visual Basic, they mean Visual Basic for Applications (i.e. the scripting language for Microsoft Office), I am 100% sure that more people write VBA than write Swift. lol
Anyhow, my mom's first tech job was writing some dialect of Pascal for an insurance software company in Texas in the late 1990s/early 2000s. That was well before Anders Hejlsberg gave birth to the behemoths C# and TypeScript.
Within advanced engineering software (like FEM/FEA) VB is very common as a plug-in languau
@@joranmulderij This makes a lot of sense to me. I had no idea!
I absolutely despise VBA, it was technically my first language back when I was an analyst (wasn’t even allowed to run Python scripts at that company). VBA and macros let me get my work done in a single hour every day but was like pulling teeth to work with.
@@Beastintheomlet That's painfully relatable. I feel like most people who get into VBA have two things in common:
1. Lots of data to process and reports to generate.
2. Literally no other language available to them.
I once needed a GUI at my old job, so I wrote a Vue 2 app inside an "HTML Application" (.hta file). It required some polyfills to Microsoft's ancient JScript engine, but it technically worked.
@@ISKLEMMI I actually found the language to be somewhat okay, but because you need to run your code in their program you have absolutely no tooling except for some kind of console log functionality. Also documentation tends to be absolutely terrible.
This (as someone who literally participated in country-wide logo programming competitions in elementary school) makes me both sad but also curious how prime never heard of logo 🙂
Also its pretty cool that the original guy in the 60s actually made robot turtle draw like that - just we all used software only. Its for drawing things visually with commands.
Its bad to say don't learn ADA - you should definetely look at it if you think rust is safe haha (or eiffel or B-method lang)
Probably just forgot to pen down and got no output
Was thinking the same! But I was also surprised to find out cobol was still a thing a couple years ago BUT because financial institutions didn't want to mess with their original code base dating 40 years back, what I kinda understand.
How in the sweet Mike did you ever attend an elementary school that offered participation in a national programming competition to its students? That doesn't even sound possible. Kudos to whoever set that up.
@@lemon__snicker5973 Hungarian school system... haha.... This is school in my little 3500 inhabitant village! But we had very good teachers actually.
In elementary school we started IT in 4th grade (it was in the late 90s not now - now earlier):
- Comlogo and and regular informatics + boolean logic
- Later I remember this programming language that had Hungarian commands for loops and ifs and such (it was called "word" - good luck trying to google it lol)
- There was also hardware - just about how to upgrade your machine, what card is what etc.
In high school:
- Basic electronics (with soldering included) and gate circuits like adders and simple control
- 8088 Assembly with 256 bytes of ram
- Turbo pascal (but in meantime I went on and spent heavy asming at home - like writing little OS, games, 3D engine, particle system etc. for years not touching just asm)
- Linux (the teacher installed gentoo on a room full of machines).
- Mysql on Linux
- Kylix (it was borlands free delphi-like on Linux): to learn OOP.
Uni:
- C, C++, Java (with EE) and 20 other languages including haskell, ADA, Eiffel, Forth, Factor and bunch of others. Heavy focus on algorithms and multithreading.
- Heavy maths and compsci - after all the course was originally called "Programmer Mathematitian" (and when we went it was just renamed to CS but not yet changed the math-heavy parts to be less heavy ;-)
- Optimization and Operating system low level stuff etc.
- ACM ICPC competitions: But we never had as cool real focus on this as Polish people do: They often win world champion level so our regional finals usually is a killing spree by them and Bjelorussia, Croatia... I only heard one team of ours who went further (not us). So its a tough eastern europian region.
It was a good school system - well preparing us. For algs as I say there are even better systems like locally the Polish or globally the Chinese/Russian...
Otherwise this was pretty "mid" experience. I was not really "top" just were around the top people. Oh and all this in a totally free education system ;-)
I think they count searches like " programming language". Which means that Go - as a quite easy to understand language - will naturally receive less searches than " programming language". It's a really strange way of measuring popularity.
i like to start my day with Prime. such a great amount of inspiration and "kinda funny". ty
I used to be a Delphi programmer. I liked it but Java came along and I dropped it in a heartbeat.
04:20 there are languages like javascipt and freepascal where newlines are optional
also what does line mean in scratch?
Of course you should start projects in C++, it's comical to suggest otherwise. There's no viable replacement.
15:25 video encoders (like x264) and compressors (like 7-Zip) have parts written in assembly
I didn't know where this was going but what a ride!
I think the reason C# is low on the commits metric is likely due to C# not being the most popular open source language.
every programming language becomes assembly? doesn't it become machine code? does it always turn into assembly first?
I mean fortran is not as outdated as it sounds. There is nothing faster for scientific computing. It has it's niche.
Delphi programming (for the algorithm)
I think it's pretty obvious why Visual Basic jumped during lockdown, it's because lots of normies were tinkering with Microsoft Excel.
Hand written ASM is used in game dev for some optimizations and kernel development, so it *is* used, albeit not much. A very large portion of the architecture code in the Linux kernel is just rawdogged asm
JavaScript doesn't cost money to write: A price for everything, Mr. ThePrimagen... A price for everything.
A kictstarter project for the Spectrum Next was delivered recently, a refresh of a popular UK microcomputer from the 1980s. This might have had some impact on Assembly Language searches for the Z80 chip-set. I know I've done my fair share of trying to learn Z80 assembly throughout the lockdown.
i wonder how many lines are boilerplate
What language is the article?
I would love to program in the xkcd programming language.
It’s too fun
Golly, me too!
@@Gusto20000meaning what exactly? Am I confused or are you confused?
Fun fact: wikipedia and amazon come bundled as search engines on firefox.
Prime coping about Delphi and Logo is the funniest shit ever, thanks for showing us your ignorance
1:07 C# is gaining terrain because of Unity?! I think they meant in spite of it.
If you want a good index of programming languages, Code Report made a pretty good one and you can import all the different metrics you want.
C# haters are gonna hate. Nothing personal.
Eiffel user here...spending all of the dollars.
CEO was like so these are the best languages by page count on Google search but but but we are obviously wrong here. A good title for the article is "TIOBE index 2024, just don't use us"
"R is a good programming language" said no one ever, except the sadist who decided that biology students at my uni needed to write their own graphs in a "real" programming language _and chose _*_R._* WTF?!? As a CS student, I took one look at the example for "how to write a graph in R" and decided that biology clearly wasn't for me.
Literal skill issue then, R isn't as bad as you think it is (and no, I'm nowhere adjacent to data science, in case you thought there's a bias)
Pirates love it.
What's wrong with the example? Really doesn't look that bad to me.
@@isodoubIet the real issue is that I don't understand the arrow notation in R: does it push things onto a stack? Does it overwrite? What happens if you assign a variable to another variable, do you get a reference or a copy? Why is it an arrow in the first place and not an equals sign like literally every other language in existence? What does the axis(at=1.5) do? What even is that argument? Why does literally every tutorial I go to have an entirely different method of doing things? Well, "entirely different" might be a stretch, but they sure look different. I'll admit that my issues are skill issues, but the language _looks_ arcane and I ain't trying to spend 5 perfectly good weeks learning another arcane language when I've spent years becoming mediocre at simple languages like C.
As language wrappers are now a thing {again?} (TS -> JS), I am encouraged to make a pre-processor for SCRATCH called ITCH.
NASA relies on Fortran for computationally intensive tasks, such as orbital mechanics and simulation of complex physical phenomena
I think what people oversee that already at the 12th place we hit 1% and below alone the error margin should be higher so I wouldn't read too much into it. About the rise of C# it make sense Java got killed by Oracle and the dependency hell created by the JEE devs. JS has already hit the same wall on dependency hell created by similar devs but we don't see the consequences yet. C# point is you can do everything: develop for all platforms, the inheritance works way better because you need to mark the function as virtual to be able to overwrite them and on nuget you don't post mini projects which then end up in the dependency chain. Actually don't believe in the hype or those devs who want to sell their special solutions will ruin it like they did with Java and JS ..sad but true.
Assembly is the only input of the cpu, so what ever language/compiler that writes the best assembly is the best Programming language. The script language that requires low effort to write in, is the best script language. (aka choose the best tool (script language) for you to the work). So on.
After seeing the TIOBE index I threw away the rust book and signed up for a year-long $100k course in Fortran. Best decision I ever made. (I haven't actually got a job yet and I'm living on the streets at the moment, but I'm sure one will pop up soon)
As a positive to this crazy list, maybe it's time to update my CV with todo-apps built in all 20 TIOBE approved languages :D
Why are y'all hating on Fortran?? Modern fortran is actually quite decent for numerical stuff.
because they never used it and have no idea what they are talking about.
is SQL a programming language?
It's a query language, more declarative than procedural. Something like Transact-SQL or PL/SQL would be more akin to what you would think of as "typical" programming language.
“L” in the name is for Language
R was the first language I learned.... So i guess it was an old time favorite for me.
TIOBE or not TIOBE. That is the question... and the answer is always TRUE.
Key Takeaway: TIOBE needs a totally NEW methodology, what they are doing now is totally flawed
On the other hand you could say that TIOBE is an irrelevant popularity contest.
no sound at the end...
censored by Tiobe?
no conspiracy here folks...
muted by accident 😅😅😅
TIOBE replaced their index-responsible staff with LLM confirmed.
Delphi rulez ballz! Delphi 7 project on Windows 10 runs perfectly fine, exactly as when I wrote it like 20 years ago.
They should rank Minecraft Redstone on this list too- it would end up #1 overall!
Tiobi is when you SELECT * FROM languages ORDER BY rank DESC
I think they just missed their order by clause and it's ordered by wherever it landed on disk
SELECT * FROM languages ORDER BY RAND()
@@potato9832 yeah more like it
To be fair Delphi is great. It is unfortunate it is dying out.
Its not dying
Not dying at all, we still are active (same with our brothers over at Free Pascal, the development definitely hasn't slowed down). You can still use it, you have a community edition too right now (or choose Lazarus on the Free Pascal side)
TIOBE is not a about trends in devs wishlists or pipe dreams, it is about wide "industry" including people searching for knowledge/help in mantainig very legacy systems.
Seems like TypeScript is not so widely adopted or... it easy to use and don't have many problems to search help for....
As a skilled Scratch engineer....
I actually agree about the position of C! Pretty much everything is written in c even python
Ruby is massively popular in Japan still.
If we all ran a script that generated random 24/7 google searches for INTERCAL programming tutorials- could we make into the top 10 ?
Just a side note, I think you may have misread Fortran and Scratch being numbers 3 and 2 on the list. As far as I can tell those two along with C# were top 3 in terms of growth, not usage/popularity. C# was additionally made language of the year, which I believe may have been what caused the confusion.
Orrr I misread lmao
Yes valerie, watch the whole video before you comment...
My bad.
I’ve dealt with NASM and MASM(versions of assembly) in exploit development so it’s still used there but have not had a single use case outside of that. It may have ranked so high due to script kiddies looking up reverse tcp shell in NASM or MASM.
I remember learning logo. It was when i was actually just 10-12 years old
Pesimistic about Go? That accurately describes how I feel every morning when I leave for work. Well called, TIOBE.
The only thing TIOBE index is modelling is TIOBE index modelling.
Well. I guess i have to rewrite all my go backends in scratch now
Damn, I knew I should have learned COBOL instead of Rust!
The biggest mistake on TIOBE's side is not mentioning Holy C
This video is as much of a fever dream as the original article
Fortran #1, haters gonna hate 😆😆😆
Officially it’s number 3. I’d expect a Fortran user to understand the numbers presented here…
Unless you haven’t misunderstood and are intentionally ignoring the complex analysis being done by Tiobe
03:12 there are a lot of scratch projects
The hate for C# is real 😂
I used a language that costs monry a bit over a year ago. It was awful. (progress openedge)
- I don't think functional languages will ever become popular - Haven't heard of javascript?
The greatest part of all the wild parts of the video, is Prime not believing Logo is a real language 😂
I have a coding challenge for you. You should make a face tracking software with an ai that you train on your face alone, that can accurately estimate when you are reading an article that you believe is written by AI. Like a rubegolberg turning test
There aren't a lot of c# companies hiring 😢
TL;DR: Prime learns about education languages ( Scratch, LOGO, etc )
But to be real, those are great for first-time programmers.
its similar to steam hardware survey... alot of people still using very outdated or bad stuff and as dev you has no choice but consider that =)
That's not remotely comparable. The Steam survey is based on actual Steam installations and real hardware in use. This language index is based on google searches, if that same method was used for films then Morbius would be one of the top movies. That's not representative of anything.
Paul Jansen is 365 years old.
"C programming language" = 8.570.000.000 results "python programming language" = 310.000.000.
"C" is #1 until "I" programming language takes over, with "H" language probably being ahead of Typescript by 14 places.
Scratch is literally written in modern JavaScript, (probably is partially TypeScript)
V8 is written in C/C++.😅
in turn C and C++ are written in ASM... 😶🌫