You Won't Believe the Difference: 9 Bar OPV Mod for Gaggia Classic Pro
Вставка
- Опубліковано 24 чер 2024
- Want a better mouth feel and less channeling on your Gaggia Classic Pro? Then follow this simple tutorial for replacing the original 12.5 bar spring of the OPV to a 9 bar spring. We do some tests to see how the optics of the extraction, and the flow thereof, change based on the 12, 9 and 6.5 bar springs. Stay tuned until the end to see the results of the 6.5 bar spring, too.
------------------------------Products used/recommended in this video--------------------------------------------------
(these are affiliate links that help fund videos like this, at no extra cost to you)
►The Gaggia Classic Pro:
🇺🇸 amzn.to/3LeAvpb
🇨🇦 amzn.to/3xXXHFc
🇩🇪 amzn.to/3OLHEAg
🌏 geni.us/GaggiaClassic (worldwide Amazon link)
► Springs:
🇺🇸/🇨🇦 ebay.us/Az83jF (this is an eBay affiliate link)
🇬🇧 bit.ly/3OcPe5Q (link to Shades of Coffee)
►Bottomless Portafilter:
🇺🇸 amzn.to/3inNVXO
🇬🇧 amzn.to/3Msn320
🇩🇪 amzn.to/396bjnr
🌎 geni.us/GaggiaBottomlessPF (Amazon link for rest of world)
► Keep clean with these Barista towels: geni.us/BaristaTowel
► Cheap Espresso Scale: geni.us/EspressoScale
► Gaggia Classic Pro Gear: kit.co/tomscoffeecorner/gaggi...
🛠 Grinder Suggestions: kit.co/tomscoffeecorner/grind... (Amazon)
Spring measurement breakdown:
12 bar spring: 23.6mm long and wire strength of 0.6mm.
6.5 bar spring: 23.9mm long and wire strength of 0.5mm.
5 bar spring: 20.1mm long and wire strength of 0.5mm
0:00 Subscribe for more Tips and Reviews
0:51 Required Tools
1:35 Factory Spring (12 bar) Results
2:49 Installing the 9 bar Spring
5:27 9 Bar Spring Results
6:32 6.5 Bar Spring Results
AFFILIATE DISCLOSURE:
Some of the links used in the description will direct you to Amazon or eBay, as an Amazon Associate or eBay Partner I earn from qualifying purchases at no additional cost to you.. Affiliate commissions help fund videos like this one.
#gaggiaclassicpro #tomscoffeecorner #opvmod - Навчання та стиль
Subscribe for more coffee reviews & tips! www.youtube.com/@TomsCoffeeCorner?sub_confirmation=1
Gaggia Classic Pro: geni.us/GaggiaClassic
Springs: 🇺🇸/🇨🇦 ebay.us/Az83jF 🇬🇧 bit.ly/3OcPe5Q
AFFILIATE DISCLOSURE:
Some of the links used in the description will direct you to Amazon, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases at no additional cost to you.. Affiliate commissions help fund videos like this one.
Does the coffe grind in the portafillter have to touch the shower head ? I can't get anyone to give me an answer...hopefully you can....can't wait to try the 9bar spring
@@jmoore9806 No J, in fact there SHOULD be some head space between the top of the puck and the shower screen. I'd say 3-4mm space is ideal. Cheers!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner thanks for letting me know.....but now I'm really confused..... evey time I give that 3mm gap between the shower screen I get more channeling....what gives ???
@@jmoore9806 Hey J, well channeling can be caused by many things. It mostly has to do with puck preparation. There's all kinds of videos about WDT and preparing your puck well. I saw a good one here: ua-cam.com/video/m_6oU7fUODg/v-deo.html
Very good proof.
The pressure gage install was perfect. I will do this to my classic, due in tomorrow.
Very nice, Tom! Thanks for your feedback. Will be curious how you like the mod! Cheers, Tom
I love how you kept the hose on and just pulled it out from the container below as I’m wary of using a lot of force on mods repairs. My spring kit is on order and looking forward to a new stainless group head , a new screen and OPV mod
Nice to find your channel Tom
Thanks a lot for your comment, Bon. Those are some worthy mods, that should be fun to install, and provide a good improvement. 👍🏻
Hey Tom - Thanks for the video - following your directions I changed out the stock spring to a 9 bar and I like it. IMO the espresso I’m making is definitely better! Kudos
Right on, Del! Thanks for sharing, and cheers! Tom
Thanks to all your vids and guidance I now have far better coffee. I've changed the steam wand, switched to a naked portafilter, get the right amount of coffee into the basket, got all the accessories and now pretty decent crema. Now I'm being asked to make coffee for everyone at home in the mornings 😄😄😄.
Haha, join the club! I have automatically become the 'barista' as home as well. But it's fun, right?! 😉
Thank you so much for this! Can’t wait to do this to much machine! 😊
Thanks for doing this video, it really helped.
amazing video! thanks a lot man, i will test too.
Thanks Tom just installed a 9 bar spring . With your help.
Holy crap, I just did this, I knew there would be SOME difference, but I wasnt expecting this MUCH difference I got, even with relatively cheaper coffee I used for learning/experimenting. Best spent few pounds. Thanks for your video!
Awesome! I’m really happy to hear of your satisfied experience. It’s the best and easiest mod you can do in my opinion. 👍🏻
Hi, did you have to buy the spring elsewhere? It is not sold with the machine?
@@MsMoinet No these are not included, I bought them at shadesofcoffee, there is a link in the description of this video.
Great video , thank you for explaining and the instructions! 👍
My pleasure! Have fun experimenting!
Now that we have the same Espresso Machine and Grinder I am going to follow your every video.
All right Leocanto, that sounds like a plan! 😉
Awesome! Thanks for sharing. Great mod!! I gotta try it.
You betcha, Tim! Have fun experimenting!
Great vid! I like your style
Thank you for bringing the important items out of focus, so we can see them better
Yes, sorry about that. The auto focus darts around sometimes.
I made a follow up video, it is much shorter, and just focuses on the mod. The focus should be better here:
Gaggia Classic Pro 9-Bar OPV Mod | The Quick and Easy Way!
ua-cam.com/video/Kyjpe3SdSsE/v-deo.html
@@TomsCoffeeCorner I watched the other video too. Gave a tumbs uo to both :)
Great, what a clear video! The fourth I've watched. If I'd watched yours first I would have only watched one ! Thank you.
Thanks for the feedback!
Great video 👍
Hi Tom. Thank you for this excellent vid .... especially the great idea to just pull out the OPV tube. Well done! Would you ever consider just cutting the standard OPV spring? I think I have seen video's where people just cut it.
Hey Lama! No, I wouldn’t recommend doing that. I feel like the springs are designed for their lengths based on their tension. I tried shortening the spring in the Dedica, and was not so satisfied with the results. Perhaps it’s different with the classic pro, but I have not tried myself. Thanks for watching and for your comment!
Thank you. The most useful video on this subject I've come across. I would add a couple of comments :
1) The stainless steel lid slides out from the thin black lip at the front of the machine &
2) A 10mm spanner/wrench undoes the nut
Most helpful. Thanks.
Thank you for those observations, and thanks for watching! Happy coffee drinking! ☕️
Thank you Graeme. I was in the store. Forgot to measure but thanks to your comment I took the right spanner…
Hi and thanks for the video
Have you tried cutting the original spring ?
Great video Tom. I understand the 6 bar spring is used for turbo espressos but that mean a coarser ground and 7 to 15 sec extraction. The benefit is less channeling so better quality from shot to shot
Very cool, Rincon! I will have to look into a turbo espresso in the future. Have you ever tried one?
@@TomsCoffeeCorner the method was proposed by maths 2 years ago and it is based on formulas, physics etc. The common sense says it should taste bad but it doesnt !! I tried in a dedica and was very good in flavour but little weak as it needs higher ratio (15gr in 40 gr out)
@@a.rincon2748 Great! I will put it on my list to try in the future :)
Great video! One thing I noticed was that the brass fitting was on there good! I managed to get it off slowly without breaking the plastic housing but it looked like there was red thread lock used from the factory? It looks like there is room for a small O-ring, but I couldn't see that deteriorating into what was left. Be careful folks, it can take some muscle if your machine is a few years old like mine is!
Great Info (y)
So sick man! 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
Very nice video ! A lot of Gaggia lovers talk about modifying to 9 bar spring. However, i have to say, my stock Gaggia Classic Evo Pro (model 2023) combined with my Eureka Mignon Spezialità produces extraordinary espresso, even compaired witg the best café's around here - 17 grams double shot extraction time about 30 seconds, depending on coffee. So i'm hesitating to change the spring!
Honestly, changing the spring just makes the machine a bit more tolerant, and can round the shots out, in my opinion.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner perhaps you're right, and perhsps i will replace the spring - risking the warrenty of the machine perhaps as well !
However thx again !
If you bought the machine in the USA, it is likely that it is equipped with a 9 bar spring.
@@dejedejsson IIRC Pro EVo is the new model with the spring installed but not if purchased much before and only the EVo model. From what I was reading/researching: you can swap the old spring back in and it is undetectable that the machine was modified and they're unlikely to refuse warranty service. That said you have to be very, very careful about leaving any residual water inside the unit (drips from replacing the spring) as you can easily short out the motherboard and then it's obvious you were tinkering with stuff.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 Great vid! Did not realize how simple it would be to upgrade the spring! Thank you.
You betcha! Glad it was helpful. Enjoy your modded GCP!
Hey Tom! Is it possible for you to do one on cutting the original springs vs the 9 bar shades springs? That would be interesting!
Hey Norman, I suppose that would be interesting to see if the result can be duplicated by cutting the spring, and filing it so that there's no sharp edges. I will perhaps do that in a future video. Cheers! Tom
Espresso is so beautiful
Hey interesting video what does the 9 bar do to the espresso taste wise compared to the original one. Thanks in advance
Thank you Tom for the great video! I'm wondering if the OPV spring has to be a food grade spring or any spring can do?
I am guessing it should be food grade. I ordered mine from Shades of Coffee, and I hope they are using food grade springs. Cheers!
Nice video...❤❤❤
Very well done video, thank you. So the 6.5 is basically overkill?
Thank you! Well, some people use the 6.5 for turbo shots, but I prefer the 9 bar so far. Cheers!
Thank you very much.
You betcha! Thanks for watching!
Both the 9 and 6.5 looked like they blonded a lot more than the first shot which looked darker and juicier for longer. But I understand the the 6.5 is supposed be have better taste and extraction overall
That is SO interesting. I didn't realize the Gaggia Classic PRO had a different pressure mechanism than the original Gaggia Classic. With the original to adjust the pressure you pull that hose off of a brass fitting, remove the fitting with a 3/4" socket, then use a 5mm (or is it 4mm) allen key and turn the allen screw counter clockwise to relieve pressure. Then quick reassemble. No changing springs. That is quite different. Now I'm not so sure about the Classic Pro model, but for my original version I bought a PID kit for about $125 from a private party and installed it myself. So much better than temp surfing because of the temp consistency. The weak link of the Gaggia Classic is still the small boiler.
Hey Gero, yes some machines over the years have had an adjustable OPV. That is a nice feature! I agree about the PID and small boiler. But for the latter, at least it heats up quickly! Cheers! ☕️
Hello, great video , 1 question pls , did you notice any sound change of the machine? Did it get a bit louder with 9 bar spring? Thank you
No, I don't think so. At least I didn't notice any difference.
I'd really love to see something like this on the ECP-3420. Either that or a dimmer/gauge mod.
Great video, but I wish you had showed the 12 bar spring that took out, for comparison.
Hey Anthony, do you mean just show this spring as it looks? I could do that in an upcoming video. It looks pretty similar, but I think the wire strength is a bit higher.
Hi Tom. I stumbled on this video while learning all I can on YT about the Gaggiuino Project. I'm interested in buying and modding a Gaggia Classic Pro, because I'm tired of maintaining my ancient Pasquini Livia 90. My initial take on your 9 bar spring video, since I'm so accustomed to my Livia 90, is that perhaps I don't need all the fancy-shmancy stuff associated with the Gaggiuino Project, and could make some minimal mods to the Gaggia Classic Pro that will more than satisfy my simple espresso needs. What do you think? And what other SIMPLE brew enhancing mods can you suggest for the Gaggia Classic Pro along the same lines? Great video, BTW.
Thanks a lot
I mean, the Gagguino mod is a lot of work. That's why I haven't done it yet. It would be SO much footage to take, then edit.
The 9 bar mod is the best one IMHO, and I think most will be happy with it. The Gagguino allows you to adjust flow rate on the fly, to emulate other machines, like levers for instance. So if you want to nerd out, the Gaggunino is sweet. If you just want a good espresso, I'd suggest the 9 bar. And a nice bottomless PF for diagnosing shots. And an IMS basket. Cheers!
Thank you!!!
You're welcome!
Hi! Thanks for the video! I just decided to change the spring on my GCP!!! quick question, you did provide a link from ebay and one from Shades of coffee.... do you think those springs from ebay are as good as those from Mrs. Shades? are those tested? Which one did you use?
Hi there! I listed the eBay springs for North American customers, to save time and money. The seller has excellent feedback, and lists his springs as high quality food grade stainless steel. 👍 Even the Shades website does not mention stainless steel or food grade, fyi.
Good and informative video. I've had my GCP for about three weeks now. I've been considering the OPV mod but decided to wait a few months. I want to get familiar with the way it is now and then I'll know if the change makes a difference.
Do you have a bottomless portafilter? The difference in the extraction is visually pretty obvious, because the cone shapes differ. With 12 bars, it’s a larger cone, and it’s biased towards the back, at least on my machine. The extraction with nine bar has a smaller cone, and is a little slower.
I think it’s a good, and also very easy modification to do. Just beware, that you may get charged import duties, depending on where you live, since this is from the UK. Not if you live in America though. In America, imports are generally duty-free up to $800. 🤗
Don't do this to yourself! 9 bar is so much easier to dial, the window is so much wider and feedback goes on the right direction. Just do it With oem 12.5 bar you can get opposite results on grind and dose (maybe due to fines migration and/or puck conpression) and constantly battle to dial a coffee. 9 bar is the industry standard for a reason
@@ylleKkcirtaPnadnerB I'd go down to 6.5 bar. Even better, especially in the home market where you might lack the knowledge, technique or just equipement. That 6. 5 will provide even more forgiveness.
I've had my GCP for a month and using the spouted portafilter everything was great! Now that I'm using a bottomless the coffee sprays everywhere and super fast extraction.
I see you use the same open porta filter as we do. But in our case it spills out. Sometimes it sprays and usually it starts dripping allong the handle after a few seconds. I thought it could be the pressure but in your vid it went smooth at 12 bar.
Yes, that’s true. I have never had any issues with this portafilter, and I have been using it for a few months now. Maybe your gasket needs replacing?
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Thanks for your answer. I will do that.
great video! where can i find Springs for Krups Virtuoso coffee?
Sorry David, I don't know that. To me that looks like a machine that probably was not designed to be modified. Cheers!
Hi Tom, thanks for the video. Can you tell me if that springs would fit on a Gaggia Espresso Dose? Do you know this model? I think it's the same hardware as Gaggia Color.
Oh boy, I really don’t know. Even within the same model, they often go through manufacturing changes. Some of the Gaggia models even have an OPV that can be adjusted without changing the spring, but rather mechanically.
If you open up your machine and take a look, maybe you will find out. 👍🏻
I'm just getting mine to the assistance as I have a couple of problems one of which is it has started to extract coffee in 4 seconds letting too much water come down, after which the water gets too much clear as if it wasn't able to extrect anymore - I buy grinded coffee from the same coffee shop and it's the same Costa Rica quality -. we'll see. After august the warranty will expire so I'll try to mod it. You've been very methodic and the video shows clearly the differences.
Having your own grinder though makes the biggest difference. Pre-ground coffee loses its freshness super fast. Cheers!
I wanted to try this out, but my machine(SAACHI NL-COF-7055 ESPRESSO MACHINE ) has the spring pressure valve right above the head gasket(Just above the portafilter area). What would you recommend I do to get the right pressure for my espresso.
Really appreciate everything you have done!!!
Sorry, I do not know this machine... :(
Thanks for the video Tom! I followed it and it helped me to change to 9 bar spring in my Gaggia classic pro. Do you perhaps have any idea why after I changed to 9 bar spring, started grinding even finer, I still have very fast flow at around 4 ml per second? Thanks in advance!
Hi Emil! I made this video specifically to answer your question: ua-cam.com/video/piO6c695Op8/v-deo.html
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Thank you Tom!
Great vid. Any idea how to get a better cone shaped extraction? I have a Bartaza Sette 270 grinder and have tried all the grind sizes, I've tried WDT , temp surfing, pre infusion, and still an not able to get a full cone shaped shit. Any idea what I should do? Kind of upsetting since the shots taste fine but I wonder if something else may be up...
Hey Alexey, thanks for the question. It sounds like you have exhausted all variables. Have you checked into your beans? Have a look at this video I made about this topic: ua-cam.com/video/5BgMKqu8fJI/v-deo.html
Hi Tom! It looks like you've modified the stock Gaggia portafilter by unscrewing the spouts and adding a pressure gauge. I'm wondering if you can provide any details on this modification--in particular, what adapter you used to go from the thread on the portafilter to the thread on the gauge. Thanks!
Hey Michael, there was no adapter necessary. The manometer was made to fit the spout on the Gaggia. It’s a standard thread. Cheers! ☕️
I did that with mine, i used two adapters so that everything fits together. I went to a hardware store, in two minutes they found the right parts. Cost me two euros from memory.
Hello! what is the length of the spring at 6.5bar?
It would be informative to document the extraction times for the different pressures - I assume you are extracting the same amount of liquid each time and extending the extraction times as the pressure goes down.
Hey Tom, that’s a good point. For this video, my main intention was to show how to change the springs, and their respective pressure reading with the pressure gauge.
Maybe I’ll do a more extensive test, comparing the extractions more closely. But of course you’re right, a lower pressure should extend the extraction time.
Hi Tom, I have a Dedica 685, I’m wondering if the 9 bar spring you demonstrated could be modified to fit the Dedica?
Hey Andrew, I am going to release a video soon where I experiment with springs on the Dedica. Thanks!
Hi Tom, didn't you try adjustable opv kit, i.e. for vibieme? I know there is no room for it (add another 40mm in line) and it is pricey (whole kit cost 35 euros exc. shipping) but can be precisely adjusted.
Hi there! I didn't look into an adjustable one, as I wanted a simple and accessible mod to display. But I am sure that an adjustable OPV is a little nicer to have installed, if you want to experiment with differing pressures. Cheers! Tom
I have a possibly stupid question, but here it goes, I would be so happy if everyone contributed to the opinion. I am running a Gaggia Classic + Barazza Sette setup. Let's say I am using a regular Kimbo dark roast, just for the morning easy cappuccino, and I am using the Barazza Sette's 5E or 5F setting for grind size... Usually I found Kimbo very forgiving to extract, but I want to start playing with lighter roasts and more aromas.
What happens to my grind size in relation to the pressure. If I am using less pressure do I adjust my grind size relatively? Should I go coarser? Let me explain more.
I have been experimenting with specialty coffee, but I just cannot pull a good espresso. It is sour, bitter, underextracted, although the flowing coffee looks creamy and velvety, the taste is bitter and underextracted. I get channeling, or at the bottom of the portafilter, the coffee is well compacted but on the higher levels the water gets in the middle, so it is a coffee, water, coffee and group head filter sandwich...
So, the question is. When I do this mod that I am going to do, how should I adjust my grind size? Any tip with channeling - bad extraction welcomed.
thanks.
Hi Tom. Thanks for the video. I did the 9 bar spring. Unfortunately, I broke the orange nylon cover hose underneath the spring hose. Any suggestions?
Ah shoot! You might need a replacement of the hose, unless you can cut it a little shorter and stick it on. www.juraprofi.de/Ersatzteile-fuer-Gaggia-Kaffeevollautomaten/RI9480-New-Classic/Schlaeuche-Verbinder.html?ts=24_1693_18
Any advice or video on how to remove the safety valve where the pink pipe is connected? I broke the plastic as I was unscrewing the OPV. I ordered a new 11bar pump safety valve.
Do you mean the orange braided hose? If so, do you mean where it gets attached to the boiler?
Could you change the grind size more coarse or fine to accommodate the different springs and essentially get the similar taste to each other? Like, produce the same results between a 9 bar and 6 bar spring by changing the grind size??
Haha, that's a good question. I have to admit that I probably don't have the taste palate for that, but I bet someone who does could answer that question. Certainly, you could mimic the times based on grind size, but the shot tasting is kind of subjective, and subject to the taster's preferences and palate.
Just ordered springs and bottomless filter from shadowsofcoffee. Decided not to buy PID, since stock coffee is quite good for me. Never tried "temperature surfing", probably, I'm loosing something from unstable temperature, but I don't see real reason to do that and springs sounded more reasonable to change.
The 9 bar spring is the best bang for your buck mod on this machine. Enjoy!
Very interesting video, I just did that with a friend few days ago as we bought pretty much EVERY upgrades from Shades of Coffee, only had like 12$ of duty for Canada so nearly nothing. The tube was so damn tight and hard to remove as the machine was 100% new and never used once. I don't know why Shades doesn't just remove the screw/boat without removing the tube as there is absolutely noreason to remove it from what I see. I thought about it but didn't try.
Gaggia should seriously just stop using a useless crappy 12 bar spring that 99% of users will want to replace anyway, and who the F wants to use a pressurised basket too?! It's the last thing on earth I would ever do!
Question: Have you done his new PID mod? He said if I'm a computer technician I shouldn't have any problem but then I saw the kit with a ton of wiring and the 82 pages manual and was like O-M-G! It's much more of a electrician job and something for a coffee machine technician than computer... I built gaming computers for over 15 years and it has nothing to do with it. Also the pressure gauge mod is some complex plumbing job in a place you don't have much room for since it wasn't meant for it at the start.
Anyway for now just all other upgrades already did a major difference within 30min :)
Hello Panzer! Thanks for your feedback. I would also suggest, that everyone just leave the hose on the brass nipple, because it is way easier that way. Not sure why Shades recommends to remove the hose.
As for the 12 bar spring, you are right, Gaggia should just include a 9 bar spring, and omit the pressurized filter as well. This is really an enthusiasts machine. A Liebhaber's machine, if you will. You see SO many really engaged people on forums experimenting with the Gaggia. So, I don't know why they include these beginner's features, but I guess that Gaggia knows the buyer's demographic probably better than I do.
I have not done the PID. Shades by the way being in the UK, is really expensive to import to Germany through the import fees. Also, I do think it is quite the job to tackle with wiring, and I do not like how the display looks on the Shades mod. That red on black display is really 80's in my opinion, and does not fit the aesthetic of the GCP. I would prefer a white display with higher resolution. When I do find a display someday to my liking, I will probably do the PID mod. Until then, I am quite satisfied.
Greetings to Canada over the pond!
hello great video, how could I get that cream with a dedicate and a naked portafilter? thx
How to get crema: ua-cam.com/video/00NSG9459a8/v-deo.html
Hi Tom, Where did you get the Portafilter with pressure gauge?
Here you go: geni.us/PFManometer
Awesome video! I was experiencing really extraction flow despite grinding my light roast beans with a Eureka Mignon Silenzio at “zero” point. In fact, I ground the beans when the burrs were slightly chirping. I had 18 grams in and 80 grams out in 30 seconds. I changed my OPV bar on my GCP to 9 bar hoping that it would slow down but it didn’t.
Any suggestions on what else to do? Is my Eureka or GCP defective? They are both brand new.
Hey Enrique! That definitely sounds out of whack. You should not be getting that much output in 30 seconds. If you are grinding near the zero point, you should just about be choking your espresso machine. By the way, even with the 12 bar spring, I still got my output at a 2:1 ratio in about 25 seconds.
Perhaps the burrs on your grinder are misaligned. I can’t imagine that your espresso machine is putting out too much pressure. Unless of course, you were just in steam mode. In that case, you will get a huge output very quickly.
Could you make a video and post the link here?
Cheers ☕️
Tom 🙋♂️
@@TomsCoffeeCorner ah maybe that's the answer to my problem. I've been switching to steam for twenty seconds before pulling my shot because i saw a YT video saying it helps with pulling hot enough water, but it results in crazy flow rate even with the 5 bar spring. I shall experiment...
@@pierrex3226 oh no, don't do that! It will be fully up to steam temp by then, and the extraction will be like lava, and be burnt. Cheers!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner I stopped doing that, I still get shots that are too fast. I've run out of variables to control. I use a scale (18g), a calibrated grinder on the finest setting, a puck screen, bottomless portafilter to make sure i dont have channelling (i use a dispersing needle, a good tamper), a clean machine, filtered water, a machine warmed up for 15min, different beans, i tried all the springs from shades of coffee, and i still get a shot in about 12 seconds.
@@pierrex3226 Too fine grind forces water to channel thus passing through faster. It is counterintuitive but try to grind coarser to fix the issue
Hi.Tom, May i know what was your grind setting of specialita? 2? Thanks!
Oh, I was about 2 numbers off of the calibration point, with freshly roasted beans. It's about 1 number off of calibration with older beans.
Cool video! Is it possible to mod the Delonghi Dedica this way?
I have heard that it is possible, and I plan to look into it. It’s more difficult to open the open pressure valve, and I do not believe they are any other aftermarket springs specifically designed for the Dedica, but the original spring can be shortened. I will look into this, and try to post a video in the upcoming months.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner nice, looking forward to watching that mod video 😁
@@xAzarathx Me too. I have an EC685 that I think needs a pump replacement anyway, so I can do both in one fell swoop!
I hope you can do the same for the dedica, i think is helpful for a lot of people! 😉
@@TomsCoffeeCorner It's a bit of a shame that there's no aftermarket spring for the Dedica. I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in modding theirs
What is the 9bar OVP needed for? Does gaggia evo have this spring? 15 bar is foreseen in its own manual but what does it have to do with 9bar OVP? Is espresso ideally made at 9bar?
Espresso is meant to be extracted at 9 bar. In some markets, the new Evo comes with a 9 bar OPV spring. But I guess not in all markets...cheers!
Tom, I just got this. Any benefits to upgrading my portafilter basket? I have the gaggia branded oem naked portafilter.
Oh yes, the precision basket is nicer than the stock basket. James Hoffman has made a video dedicated just to that.
Hi dear, If coffee should stay around 9bar, between 7bar and 11bar (as I read), why to buy 6bar spring?
So, I think you don't really need to buy a new spring because the bolt work as settable OPV. If you unscrew very little you can reduce the pressure, but, you've absolutely put sealing teflon tape around screw thread to avoid water leaks. I did this years ago with original old plastic OPV (11bar), now I've "new" model like your, but is the same thing, i think, only for more pressure, 14/15 bar, I think.
How should I measure the pressure? With filter inserted, with filter and coffee inserted or without filter or coffee? Because I've same pressure gauge (also same graduated glass :-) ) and I noticed the pressure is a little different with different setups.
I want set my new OPV but the bolt is very tight and I'm unsure about pressure measurement setup...
Hey Tron! I believe the older models had adjustable OPVs. But the newer one doesn’t. Therefore, the springs.
I think it’s debatable, how to measure the pressure. If you measure it as I did here, that is the max pressure. If you have an in-line manometer, then that should be the actual brew pressure.
Cheers!
1, from my experience that get better seal by add teflon tape to your pipe fitting and gauge then test the pressure, you won't get the swing on the gauge, and any leaks, even though it was little water drops will cause false reading on the gauge, 2, a lot of people would think your 9bar shot was good, no channeling, but there were channeling, take a look your espresso stream, it swings, that indicates there was uneven extraction going on in your puck, and if you look at the flow rate, that wasn't good neither, that's why I suggested that you learned how to mod it with adjustable OPV and as we learn espresso more, the 9bar might not be necessary one day, I got my Delonghi 310 at 7bar with 2.5ml/s flow rate, other 310 at 8.5bar 3.5ml/s, I got great results from it with light roasted beans, and I learned it a lot of espresso from Decent channel. The adjustable mod, I post it on home barista website, check it out, if you'd like.
Hey there, thanks for your critique. What's funny is that on some pressures, I got a good reading, and on others, the needle did vibrate a lot. I will try the plumber's tape next time - good tip.
I checked out your OVP thread for the ECO 310. That is pretty cool! Where did you find the OVP, and which fittings did you need? Definitely a cool mod.
By the way, the ECO 310 has a boiler right on top of the brew group. Do you get better brew temps with that machine, compared to the EC685, where there is a good 8" of hose between the thermoblock and brew group?
@@TomsCoffeeCorner 310 does get better brew temps than 685 for sure, and the OPV that I got wasn't made for espresso but water heater for shower, therefore it was cheaper from where I live. xD
@@checkwhatsleft4565 Thanks for that info - very cool. Those are some interesting experiments you've got on those threads. Where'd you get that pressure gauged portafilter for the 310?
@@TomsCoffeeCorner That was bit of pricey gauge, it was made of full stainless steal and high heat resistant(consider brew temp goes up, so I got this type of gauge), drill a hole in the middle of filter basket and pipe fitting from hardware store, I made it into QR type, so once the gauge unthread from the pipe fitting and that filter basket is able to remove, fitting onto others, like 685, so on so froth, I made a temperature scace device for that as well, same concept(QR). xD
@@checkwhatsleft4565 Hey there, thanks for that info. But I do not know what you mean by QR type? Can you explain a little more how you converted the portafilter to accept the pipe fitting from the hardware store? It is like a nut threaded on both sides, screwed on on the inside of the portafilter, with a gasket? A picture would be nice :) I would love to build one for the Dedica.
Grind size, time, ratio, aaaaaaaand pressure. BTW I think the advertised default pressure for GCP is around 14-15. Is the 12.5 you measured accurate?
I think it's pretty accurate, but I am sure there's a little tolerance in those numbers. I mean 14-15 is super high. Cheers!
Hi Tom, I have the 2002 gaggia classic. Where can I buy the 9 bar spring to fit?
Many thanks
Scott
Hi Scott, I am not familiar with that model. Some of them however had adjustable OPVs. Have you opened it up to take a look? Cheers! Tom
Thanks Tom. I've had the Shades springs for months, but haven't done the installation yet. I had assumed I would need to adjust to a coarser grind once I installed the 9 bar spring, but you kept your grind the same, correct? Was the timing for the extraction about the same? If so, that seems counter-intuitive to me. Just curious if you can confirm those details. Thanks! 👍
Hey Bob, I did keep the grind the same for all of the springs. The extraction times seemed similar, however I plan to do a more accurate test in the future, comparing the extraction time between pressures, with the same 2:1 yield.
This first test, is just to kind of show how the extraction looks different based on the pressure, and what bearing pressure might have on taste.
incorrect, you can grind finer with less pressure because you are not limited by overpressure where coffee gets compounded by water
So I installed the 9 bar spring this morning. It turns out my grind had to be very very slightly coarser. Like Tom, I've a Eureka grinder with the "infinite" adjustment knob which, as anyone with a Eureka knows, is maddeningly imprecise. If I was at a 3 on the dial with factory pressure, I'm at about 3.1 (coarser grind) with the 9 bar spring installed. I'm getting the same 1:2 extraction in 28 seconds with that slight tweak -- but to my surprise, it's almost not worth making. One thing I'm no longer doing is the "Gaggia pre-infusion hack". With factory pressure, to avoid channeling, I used to believe the pre-infusion hack was needed. My theory now is that pre-infusion might not be necessary since there's less pressure. Time will tell. Enjoying my double shot of Lavazza Gold.
@@BobMacNeal Thanks for that feedback, Bob! I am curious to hear how you like the results in the upcoming days, with the 9 bar spring. Cheers!
@@BobMacNeal any feedback on this? I am still on the fence whether to change to 9 bar spring or not. your feedback will be much appreciated
Do you notice any change in steam wand pressure after the spring install?
No, I didn't.
The Mr.Rogers of coffee education.
Does all these similar mashines got same spring pressure system? I have a Saeco Aroma and also want to lower pressure - but sotn find any info or kit to my mashine.
No, the over pressure valves very greatly between manufacturers...
At the beginning of the video you mentioned that the machine should not be under pressure. How do I know if this is the case?
Just make sure the machine is turned off, unplugged, and cooled down over several hours, to make sure that it is at room temperature. Then it will not be under pressure. You can open the steam valve to be sure.
I can’t buy 9 bar spring here in my country, is there any alternative for example cutting spring to shorter length if so how much should it be trim to get pressure near about 9 bars
Might I ask which country, Jaspreet? Anyway, I have cut the springs in the Dedica, and it is a fussy thing to go about, and resulted in non linear results for me. The pressure should be a linear function of spring length, but in practice it wasn't so easy.
Hi Tom, what was the shot time between the 3 test?
That is a good question, that has been posed here before. You can follow the timeline of the video, but maybe I will just make a follow up video in the near future. 😉
I did this mod recently and the pressure seems to be lower than factory one. As I would love to know the pressure precisely, I wonder where can I buy this manometer (gauge measuring) device from the video? (ideally in Germany, as UK is no longer part of EU and custom/DHL costs may be ridiculously high now).
I got the manometer from Edesia, but they're in England. Sorry!
New here! I have a question, can I use the 9 bar opv spring to other espresso machines?
No, it is a big fat spring, so it will only fit in the OPV for which it was designed.
Hi Tom, I have a breville barista express machine. I was thinking of using the dimmer switch hack to Reduce the pressure between the 2 methods which would you go for?
Hello Michael, that's a good question! As I understand it, these two methods are different in methodology and operation.
For the spring mod, you are limiting or capping the maximum pressure applied to the brew group.
With the dimmer (as I understand), you are adjusting the voltage to the pump itself, allowing dynamic control of the pressure throughout the whole process.
I have not experimented yet with the second method, but I do believe it will require a learning curve, like using a paddle machine (Slayer, Bianca, etc).
In summary, I think both have their merit, and their fun in experimenting!
Cheers,
Tom
It seems evident to me after employing the dimmer you don’t have to bother with the OPV spring. But if you do not add the dimmer reducing pressure from 15 to 9 bar is a huge improvement. ua-cam.com/video/val-K-Z_YCM/v-deo.html
I'm wondering if the problem I'm having with my Gaggia Classic is due to the pressure spring. Once I turn on my machine and wait for the brew light, the first shot seems to pull okay. But if I were to prepare another shot, the second one literally gushes out of the portafilter and it pulls in half the time it should, as well as weak crema. I'm thinking there is way too much pressure but no one else doing this mod seems to be having this issue. Your shot seemed to pull just fine at 12 bars. I ordered a 9 bar spring and it actually just delivered to my house as I was watching this video. I'm hoping this fixes that issue
I cannot imagine there being such a difference between shots, at least I have not seen such a thing. Do you go to steam mode in between? Because that would make a big difference. Cheers!
I tried putting a 9 bar spring in my gaggia carezza, which has the same OPV, but comes factory with a 18-bar spring. a pretty good amount of water is just going back through that clear tube and ending up in the tank... any ideas what the issue might be?
Hi Lee. Not really sure about that model, but if indeed the pump was matched to an 18 bar spring, then putting a 9 bar spring in there will likely bypass more water. However, I only know Ulka pumps to generate max 14 bars with a blind disc.
Surely if you are using a lower pressure to extract the same amount of coffee at the same grind setting the extraction time will be extended, which will be the main difference.
Hey Tom, I plan to monitor that in an upcoming video. Some have made the argument that the higher pressure compacts the puck more, creating higher resistance, and a similar extraction time to lower pressures. Just based on the size of the cone coming out of the portafilter though, I am betting in my case that the higher pressure is quicker. Cheers! Tom
Could these springs (or something similar) be used in the new Gaggia Espresso Style or Deluxe? That could make a huge difference to an already great priced unit.
Yes, they fit. I'm experimenting with them right now.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner That's very interesting. Be good to see the results.
Hi Tom, I make latte and I can't taste the difference between the 9 bar and the stock. Is this more for pure espresso drinking?
Yes, exactly. You won't notice much difference in milk based drinks. Kind of like adding coke to whiskey, in a cocktail.
Will it work with Gaggia Espresso Evolution (around 2015)? Thank you.
I haven't seen the inside of that machine, but I am thinking not. If you can open it up, then you'll see if it looks similar or not...
Can you do it with the la specialista arte?
Nope
Hi Tom!
Can you please tell me if it is possible to adjust the pressure in the DeLonghi ecp 685 in the same way?
And does that make sense?
Thank a lot
Hey there! My answer is in this video her: ua-cam.com/video/fc5nWDzsRbM/v-deo.html
In short, not really. But puck preparation is what matters most anyway. You won't get 11 bar at the puck in most cases. Cheers!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Thanks for the quick response.
Have a great day!
Hi, Tom. I have a question: with dimmer mod is necessary change the spring, since with control of water flow you can manage the pressure?
Another question, I’m not fell confident to do dimmer mod, but change the spring for 9bar it’s ok. So, the difference between just change a spring for a 9bar and dimmer mod, in taste, is large, since with dimmer mod you can do pre-infusion?
I think the 9 bar mod is the most sensible of the two. The thing is, most cheap dimmers are not super linear, and therefore do not deliver the same flow each time. I just keep my pump turned on the whole time now. The 9 bar spring is just a one and done.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Thanks a lot for your feedback. Another one: all this without PID, jus 9 bar spring?
So if I'm about to buy a new Gaggia and I wanna install the new spring right from the beginning, I also have to purchase a different basket right away? If yes, which one? I know it's 58mm, but ... which type do I need?
No, you can use the stock basket. Cheers!
Great video on the whole, but a couple of points..
After a few months enjoying 9 bar, now 6.5 bar seems even better to me with light-medium roasts, but it needs re-dialling for grind and dose, and the OPV can vent hot water into the cold tank if you leave the steam switch on until the steam stat opens - so just steam before the steam light., especially if you fit 6.5 bar. Hot water lingering at the OPV and occasionally purging into the cold water tank reservoir seems best avoided for hygiene reasons. If in doubt, 9 bar.
Secondly you say it's 12.5 bar for the pressurised basket. I think that's a myth. I have a gauge and the pressurised portafilter only generates about 4 bar back pressure with pump going fulll chat, unless you have a finely ground coffee in it, in which case it's the coffee generating the resistance, not the double wall bssket. Ever wondered why pressurised shots drop so fast? Because the back pressure is low, it just helps the water hang around long enough to extract something from the coffee, and allow the user some chance to influence it with choice of coffee and grind.
Look at the early 2019 models, with same OPV plumbed by a Y into the vent to drip tray. It seems the OEM OPV was really just a safety valve, like it says on the parts list, and was never supposed to open except perhaps with a blind basket or a choked shot.
During steaming, if you wait to the light, the boiler and OEM steam stat allow massive thermal overshoots, with huge latent pressures. I've done some tests and worst case I've seen is 11 bar latent pressure meaning a 188°C hit spot near a heater. Normally overshoot on mine was about 7.5 bar. I believe Gaggia chose the 12.5 bar pressure to withstand study case overshoots without ever venting. It's a safety valve, that's all.
But, if plumbed back to the cold water reservoir, and if you never let thermal overshoot steam pressure burp it, 9 bar is a fantastic way to better easier espresso.
A dimmer is more capable, and smoother, but adds complication and another big learning curve, so with caution and eyes wide open, the 9 bar spring is indeed brilliant!
Hey Brendan, thanks so much for your insights! That's some valuable experience you share.
I said that the original spring was intended to be able to push through the pressurized basket, because I figured that it will require some extra pressure. However, you have a point about the original models shunting into the drip tray (I suppose in that case, it really was just seen as a safety valve).
A dimmer on either this or the EC685 may be coming in the future, that would be fun to play with.
In the meantime, I look forward to testing my espresso with this 9 bar mod. Cheers! ☕
@@TomsCoffeeCorner dimmer and pressure gauge, highly recommended. You need the gauge to know your grind is right as the dimmer is neither pressure nor flow, but a bit of both, like a gas pedal. You can drop a shot with good contact time with pressure adjusted on the fly to suit the puck resistance. Taking the OPV limit out of the equation removes your previous point of reference, which is kind of liberating. And with gentle, or even full stop, preinfusion you can grind so fine it's unreal
Do I also need to change the 685 to 9 bar if I use a bottomless holder? Or press harder
No. I have measured the EC685 to max out at 11 bar, but with a normal coffee puck, it's more like 8-9 bar that the Dedica provides. Check this out: ua-cam.com/video/Scsm9Vw6JrA/v-deo.html
Just bought this machine and the 9 bar spring. I’m having trouble getting the brass fitting unscrewed and feel like I’m going to break something if I crank too hard. Any suggestions??
Hmm, you do have to be careful, and support the OPV while unscrewing. But if the machine is new, it shouldn't be all that tight. Do you have a thin bladed 10mm wrench? That's the best tool to use.
I've wondered about this. I wonder if my machine has a 12 bar for that reason - pressurized basket. I have an old Gaggia Baby from 2000 that, I felt, was way too strong and would always be so touchy with blowing through my pucks and a lot of spraying even with very, very careful distribution and good level/weight tamping techniques. I ended up installing a trailing edge dimmer switch to the power going to the pump, which has an automatic soft-start built into it, and it made SO much of a difference. I might have to see if I can get a 9Bar spring for it, just so I can rule out it over-pressurizing.
That’s very cool, William! Where did you get the trailing edge dimmer switch from? Could you post a link? I’m curious.
How did the dimmer switch affect the taste of your shots?
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Being an Aussie, from the one place that has everything - Bunnings! General hardware stores that stock lighting equipment, switches and accessories for houses, should have rotary dimmer switches in stock. What is important is the TYPE of dimmer switch, because it has to be a leading edge dimmer. They trim the AC wave form from the front (which is why it's called a "leading edge" dimmer). I am pretty certain it is the one from the following link, however they look differently depending on the manufacturer. What is important that it is a Leading Edge rotary dimmer, with a minimum of 10 watts. The ULKA vibe pumps are 48Watts, I believe! SECOND LINK, is what the dimmer looks like inside the switch block. My dimmer kit: www.bunnings.com.au/hpm-leading-edge-light-dimmer_p4330550 What it looks like without face plate; hpm.com.au/product/250va-leading-edge-rotary-dimmer-standard/
@@TomsCoffeeCorner And it was revolutionary for my shots! Before the modification, my method of pulling a shot on the Gaggia Baby involved a pre-flush to release built up pressure from the boiler heating up, then I'd lock in the portafilter holder with my prepped puck. A gentle press of the brew button would open the solenoid but not start the pump, venting any extra pressure, then I'd full press and begin the brew. But even with meticulous prep of my tamp, every few shots, that sudden kick of the pump would shoot water into my puck and cause channeling. When I added the dimmer switch, this stopped completely with the soft-start on the dimmer switch, and the pump even sounds like it takes a half second or so to ramp up to full power. The dimmer switch also allows me to reduce the water flow speed, without affecting the OPV pressure valve. I added a switch as well, so I could open the solenoid but not power the pump. 100% success rate on my shots, and I fell in love with Espresso again, now that I wasn't pulling my hair out every other shot. 🤣
@@willthedingo VERY cool, Wiliam - thanks for that info! I will refer back to this thread when I do the dimmer mod. Never heard of Bunnings. Is it any thing like Lowes or Home Depot in America? Cheers! Tom
@@willthedingo Hey William, thanks for sharing your experience here. It sounds like a worthy mod, and something I would like to try in the future. I bet it would be cool on both the Gaggia and the Dedica, too. Cheers! ☕ 🙋🏼♂
Did you also taste 12.5bar version espresso? I wonder how that tasted
Yes, I in fact have that one currently installed, because I want to make another video with all springs. It tastes fine, but for my palate the 9 bar spring seemed to allow for a more rounded extraction, somewhat smoother.
Hi
Question is why you loaded 15,5 gram of coffee to the basket with capacity of 18,0 gram basket ?
Hey it’s actually a 16g basket I was using.
Was there any other change in the shot other than mouth feel from 12.5 to 9 bar spring?
That’s a good question, Alex. So far I only did one trial each. I will have to do some more testing, and report back to you. Maybe some other people can write their experiences here as well. 👍🏻
If you look visually, you will see that the 12 bar spring creates a MUCH larger cone on the extraction, than the 9 bar. It is also biased towards the back of the shower screen. With the 9 bar mod, the cone stays more centralized. Must have something to do with the pressure and flow penetrating the shower screen.
9 bar is much more reliable, repeatable, and consistent. I've had shots as good from 12.5 bar, but not so many
What's the pressurized tester called and where can I get one?
A "portafilter pressure gauge" 👍
www.edesiaespress.com/portafilter-pressure-gauge-tester-for-coffee-espresso-machines/
Hi, a rather important curiosity... what happens if after the modification with a spring change from 15 to 9 I occasionally use the standard pressurized filter holder? does it work anyway? Does that improve too or can I throw it away?
The original spring is actually 12 bar, and you can still do pressurized, but you might need to grind slightly coarser for it.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner meanwhile thanks for the quick reply...since you are kind I have another question...and if I don't modify, then I leave the original spring and use the bottomless...can it slow down with a double steel disc above and below as well as fine grinding? do I avoid splashes?