Something situationally useful is the Siren Class has a single air staging pad, allowing for hit and run strikes with planes that can refuel and repair nearby to the strike zone
It seems that Aeon is only really competitive in the t2 stage against the superior Cybran and UEF, although from what I remember most (non setans) games don't reach T3 navy anyway so maybe it's not too much doom and gloom for them if they reach T2.
I didn't put it but Aion have the nice support of the t2 land where the shield make a huge difference. and in late game if the other faction can't abuse the range there battle ship is the best
I mostly agree with your ranking, except for the battleships. UEF t3 battleship is b tier in my opinion. As a Setons player you will realize why: Theyre super slow and clunky (you cant dodge enemy battleship shells), its the most expensive and the range usually does not matter since its slow and cant kite efficiently. In my opinion aeon > cybran > sera > uef for battleships
I understand your point of view but the UEF have the bonus of amazing support whit shield boats and jam radar in the fleet that make them the top of the class in my opinion.
@@skoub3466 On paper I agree with you, from my own experience in games its different though. Let me try to put my experience into words: UEF requires a proper mix of 6 different naval units (Battleships, neptunes, frigates, coopers, shield boats and cruisers). While Most factions are okay with 4 (battleships, destroyers, frigates, cruisers). Cybran only really requires 3 since their frigate aa is usually good enough (unless air is super lost). Microing and balancing production for 3/4 unit types is much easier than 6. In my opinion summits are great for defense (I dont know if you play setons) I always make them on Beach slot, but not on Rock slot (here I go for Neptune rush). Actually the only reason why uef navy is not dogshit in my opinion, is neptunes and shield boats.
@The Cash Cow Piñata - Hit Me To Get Money When the nuke is a option the navy is already won or lost. And if you rush a nuke you losing navy for it and that defeat the purpose of rushing the nuke at the first place
@@themoonrider351 I agree whit you that UEF navy is junky and play more like the land aion whit all is peark. Let say your just facing destroyed, frigate and battleship. If you just make frigate, battleship and Shield boat you're in a better position
while i can agree with ranks they also seem abit sillly like they all have different purposes so they not a effective way to rank them as navy units it would only be helpful to rank them agaisnt each other for each purpose ie with aeon navy attack boats are s tier at fighting tier 1 air lets say 5 frigates against 5 frigates a attack boat has so much more health then air units and it's range means it has more effective dmg then interceptors so with 1 or two you can protect your frigates from t1 bomber or use t1 bombers to fight enemy frigates which is decent considering the emp the aeon battleship may lack range but its mass to health cost allows it to frontline with the frigates for the detroyers any other faction would be silly to frontline a battleship the tempest cannon is amazing so much range and damage for attacking battleships gc's or other t4 land it a amazing support unit if its protected or allowed to kite so sorry but as much as i can agree it's just a silly thing to rank i cant just build the stier units and think im winning as each unnit has varying purposes
if you build "s tier" unit whit the same eco as your opponent and manage them whit the same efficiently you should win in there context. But t1 frigate will lose to a mix of frigate/ destroyer mid game despise being lower tier. Or more obviously sub beat most of the navy mass per mass is just that's when counter they lose really hard
They're useful but the problem is the counter is extremely efficient and don't require a huge investment. That's why the time frame where they are used is small and why I put them in lower tier in my tier list
@@skoub3466 l think the cybran strategic sub has more to offer than just stealth. The Cybran strat sub has torpedo systems too l think you should have also included Brick. A pack of bricks in the water can greatly aid navy defense and add torpedo damage
I'd rate the t1 subs higher than most t1 frigates. The player with more subs will win the T1 battles. I also prefer the Cybran T2 frigate over the others, because it has good dps, the most range and if needed they can go on land. How would you counter a UEF T2 navy consisting of cruisers, submariines and some support units (T2 shieldboat, T1 frigate with jamming). Cruisers can fire their long range missiles, whilest also giving a lot of AA. The subs will be the main battle force during a naval engagement. Shieldboat protects against both direct fire as torpedo bombera. T1 frigate lowers the chance of geetting hit from a long range.
The problem whit T1 sub is when you get the counter they melt and you quickly lose the advantages you have and often in enemy territory. For the T2 destroyer the perk to go on land is surely nice but in my tier list I was focused on the navy part only. On land you can treat them as T3 arty :) The hard part is to beat the T3 for the UEF in my opinion. For the T2 they have boats whit only one purpose. So my advice would be to focus on what they lack and if they do a bit of everything just focus on making more destroyer then him. By the way you can sneak under shield boats whit sub for easy kill
the t1 subs are weak this is due to they have a limited timeframe as as soon as the enemy can build torp bombers or a destroyer they become oboslete they have such a low healthpool they die very easily. they really only have 3 different targets amphibious engineers naval yards and t1 boats(frigate subs atk boats). i would only advise for the 1st option to raid amphibious engineers as the time frigates are better suited to the other options as the subs take too long and building a group of let say 6 to take on a naval yard is easily countered by a torp defence and 6 to take out a frigates by that time the enemy can almost have a destroyer and gets to kill all your subs opt for frigates and just ignore the subs use them to attack engis and close mexes or sit them at a naval yard with 1 torp defence till you can build a destroyer as the friagates can be used to fight cruisers easily and destroyers that can't kite they are just very useful. that scenario frigates will work very effectively keep changing direction you can avoid 90% of cruise missiles go straight under the shield boat ignore the subs and you can add a destoyer to take out the subs. then of course send in the engi's for that mass gift. i think maybe maybe you like the idea of subs being unable to be attacked by direct fire...? but you must consider the mass and its purpose i will happily send a frigate to attack and kill engineers/cruisers while being attacked by subs knowing it will die as kiiling 5 engi's or losing 8 frigates to take out one cruiser is good enough and i see like 3 subs as 1000mass worth of units being kept busy not threatening anything but cheap frigates
if you ever play big naval maps like setons people will use t1 subs to create a screen so that a seraphin/cybran player cant sneak a destroyer or stealth navy past your navy and attack your engi's which is maybe the most useful they will ever be
@@lincoln43267 T1 frigates win against T2 cruisers, shield/stealth boats and get beaten by every other naval unit. In naval battles range plays a huge part. Their only use is being a meatshield (T2 utility boats are better for that) or to jam. Why wait for 6 subs? The only 2 thing that target subs in the early game are other subs an t1 torp defence. If they have torp defence + sonar, then either attack the dockyard from another angle or surround it from a distance. If there is no torp defence + sonar, then you can do free damage. If you'd sent frigates instead of subs, then you 100% lose (given that both players use the same mass/sec on naval stuff). They'll have to back off from torp defence just like subs, they'd get demolished by subs and they'd get outnumbered by frigates. For early T1 frigates to be useful you rely on the enemy making a descent amount of cruisers in the T2 phase.
@@Vincrand you have a good point in that subs can attack a t1 naval factory without sonar and a torp defence. it is at the cost of a sub so the enemy will have a frigate they could send to your own naval factory. Also going off from unit comp into tactics the frigates can be outranged (i used kited it means the same its just slang) but however they will win against destroyer and battleships if they aren't outranged frigate will beat a t1 torp defence mass for mass quite easily t1 torp defence with sonar can cover a naval factory unless it is really badly placed there also so much tankier and quicker to produce and yes the idea behind frigates is so the enemy cant bombard you with cruisers, attack shoreline units engis/land/mex/factory and create a shield for destroyer/battleships which they are super efficient at you have to realise 300 mass for a unit with so low health and below average dmg is inefficient even if it can avoid direct fire. it takes over a minute for 1 to kill a naval factory which is only 300mass so it wont have anything in production by that time and will be reclaimed as you cant defend engis with subs. you need to kill at least 5 engi's to make it worthwhile that way. there biggest thing you do is slow down a frigate rush as they would need to place a torp defence elsewhere then build up a t2 factory destroyer or torp bomber. or that 1 in a million chance you can surprise a upgrading t1 navy factory. people generally counter this by placing there acu in the water at the naval factory and just sending there frigate elsewhere to be productive or just letting them slowly die at there shoreline to reclaim later. with frigates and outranging there is two ideas generally cybran with the stronger frigates will try building there factories closer to your shoreline or the 2nd idea is to move your frigates as far towards there shoreline as possible. as if you retreat the retreating frigates can fire while the chasing frigates shots fall short. when you find the enemy has less frigates and potential destroyer on the way you push forcing there units into the shore or out away from there factories which you attack. any destroyers then built are in range and for mass they have higher damage but significantly lower health so will die
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #1 НАЧАЛО ПУТЕШЕСТВИЯ [Новый сезон] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/380Q7gLWGvk/mqdefault.jpg)
Something situationally useful is the Siren Class has a single air staging pad, allowing for hit and run strikes with planes that can refuel and repair nearby to the strike zone
subs were ridiculously OP in the original game. their damage was insane.
True
S tier: T2 aeon flack&shield, sera t3 shield.
B tier: t2 torpedo bomber
C tier: hover tank
D tier: t3 torpedo bomber
It seems that Aeon is only really competitive in the t2 stage against the superior Cybran and UEF, although from what I remember most (non setans) games don't reach T3 navy anyway so maybe it's not too much doom and gloom for them if they reach T2.
I didn't put it but Aion have the nice support of the t2 land where the shield make a huge difference. and in late game if the other faction can't abuse the range there battle ship is the best
I mostly agree with your ranking, except for the battleships.
UEF t3 battleship is b tier in my opinion. As a Setons player you will realize why: Theyre super slow and clunky (you cant dodge enemy battleship shells), its the most expensive and the range usually does not matter since its slow and cant kite efficiently. In my opinion aeon > cybran > sera > uef for battleships
I understand your point of view but the UEF have the bonus of amazing support whit shield boats and jam radar in the fleet that make them the top of the class in my opinion.
@@skoub3466 On paper I agree with you, from my own experience in games its different though. Let me try to put my experience into words:
UEF requires a proper mix of 6 different naval units (Battleships, neptunes, frigates, coopers, shield boats and cruisers). While Most factions are okay with 4 (battleships, destroyers, frigates, cruisers). Cybran only really requires 3 since their frigate aa is usually good enough (unless air is super lost). Microing and balancing production for 3/4 unit types is much easier than 6.
In my opinion summits are great for defense (I dont know if you play setons) I always make them on Beach slot, but not on Rock slot (here I go for Neptune rush).
Actually the only reason why uef navy is not dogshit in my opinion, is neptunes and shield boats.
@The Cash Cow Piñata - Hit Me To Get Money I think aeon are the best, best dps range usually doesnt matter
@The Cash Cow Piñata - Hit Me To Get Money When the nuke is a option the navy is already won or lost. And if you rush a nuke you losing navy for it and that defeat the purpose of rushing the nuke at the first place
@@themoonrider351 I agree whit you that UEF navy is junky and play more like the land aion whit all is peark. Let say your just facing destroyed, frigate and battleship. If you just make frigate, battleship and Shield boat you're in a better position
i think barracuda has stealth on its own
Yes it does
Salem is underrated
Ship whit leg I could have given him some more points for style
while i can agree with ranks they also seem abit sillly
like they all have different purposes so they not a effective way to rank them as navy units it would only be helpful to rank them agaisnt each other for each purpose
ie with aeon navy
attack boats are s tier at fighting tier 1 air lets say 5 frigates against 5 frigates a attack boat has so much more health then air units and it's range means it has more effective dmg then interceptors so with 1 or two you can protect your frigates from t1 bomber or use t1 bombers to fight enemy frigates which is decent considering the emp
the aeon battleship may lack range but its mass to health cost allows it to frontline with the frigates for the detroyers any other faction would be silly to frontline a battleship
the tempest cannon is amazing so much range and damage for attacking battleships gc's or other t4 land it a amazing support unit if its protected or allowed to kite
so sorry but as much as i can agree it's just a silly thing to rank i cant just build the stier units and think im winning as each unnit has varying purposes
if you build "s tier" unit whit the same eco as your opponent and manage them whit the same efficiently you should win in there context. But t1 frigate will lose to a mix of frigate/ destroyer mid game despise being lower tier. Or more obviously sub beat most of the navy mass per mass is just that's when counter they lose really hard
I don't know bro... At early game subs are pretty dangerous, the can take a whole fleet of frigates without you making something about it
They're useful but the problem is the counter is extremely efficient and don't require a huge investment. That's why the time frame where they are used is small and why I put them in lower tier in my tier list
@@skoub3466 l think the cybran strategic sub has more to offer than just stealth. The Cybran strat sub has torpedo systems too
l think you should have also included Brick. A pack of bricks in the water can greatly aid navy defense and add torpedo damage
where is the cybran crab? ;)
Well experimental are a category on there own in point of view they are all good. I will maybe make a vid on what context they excel ;)
I'd rate the t1 subs higher than most t1 frigates. The player with more subs will win the T1 battles. I also prefer the Cybran T2 frigate over the others, because it has good dps, the most range and if needed they can go on land.
How would you counter a UEF T2 navy consisting of cruisers, submariines and some support units (T2 shieldboat, T1 frigate with jamming). Cruisers can fire their long range missiles, whilest also giving a lot of AA. The subs will be the main battle force during a naval engagement. Shieldboat protects against both direct fire as torpedo bombera. T1 frigate lowers the chance of geetting hit from a long range.
The problem whit T1 sub is when you get the counter they melt and you quickly lose the advantages you have and often in enemy territory.
For the T2 destroyer the perk to go on land is surely nice but in my tier list I was focused on the navy part only. On land you can treat them as T3 arty :)
The hard part is to beat the T3 for the UEF in my opinion. For the T2 they have boats whit only one purpose. So my advice would be to focus on what they lack and if they do a bit of everything just focus on making more destroyer then him.
By the way you can sneak under shield boats whit sub for easy kill
the t1 subs are weak this is due to they have a limited timeframe as as soon as the enemy can build torp bombers or a destroyer they become oboslete they have such a low healthpool they die very easily. they really only have 3 different targets amphibious engineers naval yards and t1 boats(frigate subs atk boats). i would only advise for the 1st option to raid amphibious engineers as the time frigates are better suited to the other options as the subs take too long and building a group of let say 6 to take on a naval yard is easily countered by a torp defence and 6 to take out a frigates by that time the enemy can almost have a destroyer and gets to kill all your subs
opt for frigates and just ignore the subs use them to attack engis and close mexes or sit them at a naval yard with 1 torp defence till you can build a destroyer as the friagates can be used to fight cruisers easily and destroyers that can't kite they are just very useful.
that scenario frigates will work very effectively keep changing direction you can avoid 90% of cruise missiles go straight under the shield boat ignore the subs and you can add a destoyer to take out the subs. then of course send in the engi's for that mass gift.
i think maybe maybe you like the idea of subs being unable to be attacked by direct fire...? but you must consider the mass and its purpose i will happily send a frigate to attack and kill engineers/cruisers while being attacked by subs knowing it will die as kiiling 5 engi's or losing 8 frigates to take out one cruiser is good enough and i see like 3 subs as 1000mass worth of units being kept busy not threatening anything but cheap frigates
if you ever play big naval maps like setons people will use t1 subs to create a screen so that a seraphin/cybran player cant sneak a destroyer or stealth navy past your navy and attack your engi's which is maybe the most useful they will ever be
@@lincoln43267 T1 frigates win against T2 cruisers, shield/stealth boats and get beaten by every other naval unit. In naval battles range plays a huge part. Their only use is being a meatshield (T2 utility boats are better for that) or to jam. Why wait for 6 subs? The only 2 thing that target subs in the early game are other subs an t1 torp defence. If they have torp defence + sonar, then either attack the dockyard from another angle or surround it from a distance. If there is no torp defence + sonar, then you can do free damage. If you'd sent frigates instead of subs, then you 100% lose (given that both players use the same mass/sec on naval stuff). They'll have to back off from torp defence just like subs, they'd get demolished by subs and they'd get outnumbered by frigates. For early T1 frigates to be useful you rely on the enemy making a descent amount of cruisers in the T2 phase.
@@Vincrand you have a good point in that subs can attack a t1 naval factory without sonar and a torp defence. it is at the cost of a sub so the enemy will have a frigate they could send to your own naval factory. Also going off from unit comp into tactics the frigates can be outranged (i used kited it means the same its just slang) but however they will win against destroyer and battleships if they aren't outranged
frigate will beat a t1 torp defence mass for mass quite easily
t1 torp defence with sonar can cover a naval factory unless it is really badly placed there also so much tankier and quicker to produce
and yes the idea behind frigates is so the enemy cant bombard you with cruisers, attack shoreline units engis/land/mex/factory and create a shield for destroyer/battleships which they are super efficient at
you have to realise 300 mass for a unit with so low health and below average dmg is inefficient even if it can avoid direct fire. it takes over a minute for 1 to kill a naval factory which is only 300mass so it wont have anything in production by that time and will be reclaimed as you cant defend engis with subs. you need to kill at least 5 engi's to make it worthwhile that way. there biggest thing you do is slow down a frigate rush as they would need to place a torp defence elsewhere then build up a t2 factory destroyer or torp bomber. or that 1 in a million chance you can surprise a upgrading t1 navy factory. people generally counter this by placing there acu in the water at the naval factory and just sending there frigate elsewhere to be productive or just letting them slowly die at there shoreline to reclaim later.
with frigates and outranging there is two ideas generally cybran with the stronger frigates will try building there factories closer to your shoreline or the 2nd idea is to move your frigates as far towards there shoreline as possible. as if you retreat the retreating frigates can fire while the chasing frigates shots fall short. when you find the enemy has less frigates and potential destroyer on the way you push forcing there units into the shore or out away from there factories which you attack. any destroyers then built are in range and for mass they have higher damage but significantly lower health so will die
Unfortunately i can only agree with putting t1 subs at the bottom, just like at the sea xd
They have there place but for a brief amount of time
What, did Barracuda lose its personal stealth?!
No but it's cheaper to have them in the siren sheath field energy wise and the anti torpedo of the siren put them in top of the submarine game
@@skoub3466 D'oh, of course!
Thanks.