Unraveling the Myth of Sgt. York - James P. Gregory, Jr.
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- Опубліковано 23 січ 2023
- As machine gun fire pinned down their comrades, a squad of doughboys - including Acting Cpl. Alvin York - successfully seized and eradicated a threat ten times their number. Join historian James P. Gregory, Jr. in discussing his new book, Unraveling the Myth of Sgt. Alvin York, which tells the little-known story of the other sixteen soldiers who took part in one of the most famous battles in WWI.
For more information about the National WWI Museum and Memorial visit theworldwar.org
I witnessed officers and senior NCOs fighting like hell to get on an airplane and fly to Tuzla, Bosnia, get off the plane, sign in at the air terminal, get back on the same plane, and leave. From that action, they were awarded a Bronze star, no V device. (the V device is for valor). After 28yrs in the Army, I do not put much worth in medals. I had soldiers who truly deserved recognition, get their award downgraded or outright denied. Why? "That is much too high of an award for an enlisted man" was the standard response. I spent 12yrs enlisted before I got a commission. The soldiers do the hard fighting folks, some company grade officers, and a few field grade majors. I agree with this man, all those men deserved recognition.
I witnessed National Guard officers and senior NCO's arrive in theater the very last day of the month and leave a day or 2 afterwards, so they could get 2 months Combat pay. My unit was given our combat patch citations that were printed on a printer in some office, on regular typing paper. No official looking award or binders to put them in. Of course this was in 2003, but it's never been corrected in 20 years!
I was in Bosnia 96-97 and Kosovo 1999 and I did not see anyone get a Bronze Star. For Bosnia I got the Armed Forces Expeditionary Force medal and for Kosovo the Kosovo Campaign Medal with one campaign star. Not saying it did not happen, but I do not know anyone in either operation receive a Bronze Star.
@@williamguillIII Thank you.
I have spoken to more than one Vietnam vet who felt the same way about Purple Hearts. One guy told me: “A buddy of mine got all f***d up and I just didn’t feel like they should give me a medal for a scratch. I got to keep all my parts. That’s good enough.”
God bless y’all, BTW.
I was in the Navy. I know people who were on USS Cole. There were golden boys who didn't do their job when the ship blew up, but went looking for their girlfriend. The always unengaged dirt bag who said he'd go hard when it's for real, went back into the chief's mess and pulled out unconscious NCOs. But you don't give awards to dirt bags, even if they go above and beyond.
As a U.S. Army veteran I thank you for bringing this into the light to make sure these brave men are remembered for their service!
Ever wonder why vets toss their medals to the kids!! We all need hero’s! Our colonel was always above us when taking fire !! Office help all got medals ?
For someone who never served pushes these bad times turns my guts! The guys who died here need attention !!
@@angelwithbrokenwings2456 Vets toss their medals to kids? When?
@@RuminatingWizard I think its an AI stringing words together that it thinks relate to the topic.
My father (born in 1898) was in BOTH World Wars. His "Veteran's pension" was $5 a month!
When the check would come, I can still hear my mother say, "I' like to send this back and tell
them, 'Stick i =t up your a$$!'" "With liberty and JUSTICE for all!"
Dad born in 1898? How old are you?
Are you 96?
your father was in ww2 in his 40s? What rank?
Alvin York is a distant cousin of mine, I always thought that there must have been more to the story. Sadly nor everyone gets the recognition they deserve.
I'm a distant cousin also!
My grandfather's name is Alvin York.
There is a rough parallel to be drawn here to the explosion of the 1986 explosion of the Challenger spacecraft. Seven astronauts were on board, and died within less than two minutes into the flight. The one civilian on board was a schoolteacher, Christa McCauliffe. The news media grabbed that and for weeks all we heard about was the death of Christa McCauliffe. Yes, it was a tragedy for her and her family, but there were six others who left families behind as well.
WTF 😮
You're right. And, we never hear about them anymore. I can't name ONE other person on that flight. But, I know who Christa McCauliffe was. Sad commentary.
That type of reporting goes for darn near any tragedy where many people are killed and one of them happens to be famous or connected in some way. They get the mentions and remembrances while the others are just a bunch of ??????????????
They're all still alive. The "accident" was a PR and fundraising exercise.
Think of the Titanic. One of the women that was in a lifeboat was Molly Brown of Denver. As a result, she was nicknamed "Unsinkable." Movie made about her too
My Grandfather served as a Seargent with the 354th and his commander recommended a medal. He never received anything, although he was written up in the official history. He never expressed any bitterness to me, except to say if anyone ever tells you that you are fighting to make the world safe for democracy, they are lying.
Damn. Tho true that's sad - your final three words. For your Grandfather, RESPECT!
Corporations want wars, they make a lot of money! The problem with America is the Corporations run it!
Since the Civil War the federal government has gotten too large, controlled by the Corporations!
Your grandfather spoke the truth. I knew an awards clerk in Saigon who often told me of awards given and what really happened in some of them.
What the poem calls ",the old lie" Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori
Truth.
I spent 21 years in the U.S. Navy. Most actions take a team, but it should never come as a surprise that most actions become confused by ego, laziness, preference, fog, personality, politics, etc. Nice presentation. Thank you.
well spoken!
Gary Cooper didn't want to do the movie about sergeant York. However he spend some time with York, hunting and fishing and because of his experiences with York, decided to make the movie. Alvin York was a consultant for the movie. He said that the only lightening he was struck by was his love for his future wife.
Great lecture with detailed forensic archeology to back up battlefield maneuvers. My regrets that those men had to wait so long for their fair recognition. May they all rest in peace 🇺🇲
As a U.S. Army veteran I also thank you for bring this to light. I also saw this same kind of parallel occur when i was deployed of dealing with awards and downing grading of awards, especially when it came to the national guard units. Thank you for looking in to it.
1. From the artist's recreation of the battle scene from 8:20 - 9:00, it appears that then Corporal York had command of 'the kill box' where, under good cover and concealment with slight elevation, he easily could pick off at will many of the Germans through a flanking maneuver. However, his comrades were frontally exposed to entrenched German fire and pinned down as they hastily returned defensive fire.
2. So it seems that there was a peculiar synergism between York and his comrades: Their visual presence drew German fire away from him as he proceeded to methodically mow down the enemy who were unaware of the singular advantage of York's firing position.
3. This is what the 1941 film Sergeant York neglects to portray, i.e., that York's comrades were 'sitting ducks,' hence the tremendous disparity between his kill ratio of the enemy and that of his comrades. Since war fever was raging at the time, Warner Brothers may not have wanted to show on film all the many deaths of York's comrades, a realism that was long in coming in Hollywood cinema. The 1930 film All Quiet On The Western Front had already been lionized as an anti-war film due to its excessive carnage, and previously World War I was thought to be "the war to end all wars."
4. Perhaps the silence of York's comrades after the battle was because, in suffering PTSD, they simply were grateful York was there to cause the German surrender (who cried out 'Genug!' [Enough!]) before all of the exposed Americans got killed. The film does show 'Pusher' (the NYC subway enforcer) getting picked off by a captured German prisoner, whether that is fictional or not. Another comrade 'Bert' is shown getting killed in an artillery barrage just before the battle.
5. As Sergeant York said to Miss Gracie at the end of the 1941 film, "The Lord sure does move in mysterious ways."
None of the contemporaries regarding the events dispute that they were getting their asses shot up. Neither did they dispute that York turned the flank of the Germans by displaying initiative and leadership. My take comes via a quote in Firefox, vol 2or3. York was a mean S.O.B. before the war, and a mean S.O.B. after.
But as the forensic evidence brought in during the Q&A shows, York was definitely not the only one shooting.
When York returned to the site a year later, they mentioned that he and the accompanying officers set up a shooting range with leftover German equipment as targets. Obviously, the guns and ammunition used in this display would not match the guns and ammunition used in the original fight. So by corrupting the scene, it’s difficult to determine how much the accompanying troops actually did. We will never know.
The first casualty of war is the truth.
My grandfather would speak of this travesty he never believed the story they told. R.I.P Men
Sounds like this author’s evidence is pretty compelling. It’s a shame that those men didn’t get the credit they deserved but that is not unusual for the Army. Countless acts of enormous courage go unrecognized in every conflict.
My father grew up in Scott County, not far from the York home, so I got to visit a few times as a kid. I can remember my grandfather, a WWII vet, saying that there were always other sides to these stories.
For most of his political life, Lyndon B Johnson wore a second world war military decoration for valour under fire despite never having seen combat, an investigation broadcast on CNN yesterday revealed.
LBJ was awarded the Silver Star, the third-highest US combat medal, for a 1942 fact-finding mission over the Pacific while he was a Texas congressman and an acting lieutenant commander in the navy.
The citation, issued in the name of General Douglas MacArthur, said the plane, a B-26 bomber, was "intercepted by eight hostile fighters" and that Johnson "evidenced coolness".
In fact, according to surviving members of the crew, the plane developed mechanical problems before reaching its target and never came under fire. No other crew member received a medal for the mission.
The biographer of LBJ, Robert Dallek, said the medal was the outcome of a deal with Gen MacArthur, under which Johnson was honoured in return for a pledge "that he would lobby the president, FDR, to provide greater resources for the southwest Pacific theatre".
Fri 6 Jul 2001 10.38 BST
You scratch my back, I'll scratch your back.
You just called someone that everyone said was a courageous soldier a tool. You may not agree with everything that happened but someone that served our country honorably deserves more than to be called the tool.
If Hollywood had a backbone they would redo this movie and use the true story from the battle through the coverup. Now that would be the first movie I'd pay to see in 20 years
I knew that things were a little far-fetched when I watched the desert rats go completely unscathed through fire from a German M42 machine-gun at close range, riding in a jeep on TV as a child. What is history but a fable agreed upon? Napoleon.
Thank You. Thank you for covering this sad story.
I had the honor of meeting Andrew York and sitting with him for a few hours. Other than family artifacts from Sgt York's personal collection, Andy spoke mostly of his father's life after the war and how he, (Alvin) dedicated his life to helping others. Andy said his father never spoke of the war to his family so he could only relate stories he heard from others or books he read. That being said, I look forward to reading your work when I can get a copy. Your lecture was very informative. Thank you for sharing
Thank you for shedding light on this piece of history. I wish life had been more fair to the brave 16 men who accompanied Sgt. York. I also wish that the 1941 movie had found a way to tell the story as it had happened as this story would have been enhanced by the truth.
The film tell sa story that is more like a fictional western than a believable account. But if he did have supporting fire then what York actually did makes a lot more sense. As shown it really was pretty much what HE experienced. As for his taking too much glory, well, Teddy Roosevelt bravely went the hill but the official story is likewise exaggerated. But in any case, awards go to the best written stories, I know a soldier who got a commendation for doing as much as another one what got a silver star.
So is it not possible that York, a lowly enlisted man from the hills, didn't end up as a bit of a golden goose for these generals, war department and congressmen?
I can see a scenario in which, as was mentioned by the speaker, they decide to elevate York to larger than life status for their prestige and influence.
York was still in the army so imagine the pressure of have general officers pressuring you to stick to this story.
Maybe York even insisted that his fellow soldiers be recognized and so they agreed and gave them all silver stars.
After the tours started and he attempted at least once to bring a man on stage, maybe his handlers shut that down and so York's guilt grew and he then avoided events near those men's homes because he could stand to see them in the crowd, knowing he couldn't recognize them.
How many times do we see today's celebrities being controlled by managers and family members eg. Britney Spears?
The pressures can be enormous if you have people telling you that your failure will ruin everyone's lives.
A simple country boy would be the perfect straw man for those with greater aspirations.
BINGO!
I grew up a neighbor to an old gentleman who was a WWI veteran and I used to visit and get him to tell me stories of his time in France during the war. I can't recall the Division, Company, etc that he told me he was in but he knew York and he told me more than 50 years ago that York did not do the things he was credited with doing. His opinion of York was in complete contradiction to what popular culture maintained and he said that York was a "goldbrick". Mr. Rooker, was gassed during the war and never completely recovered, never married, and lived a very simple farmer's life. I wish I had been older (wiser) and asked him more questions and taken notes, especially after watching this!!!
I find it troubling that your would say things that diminish the reputation of a man you never met, while uplifting the names of many men you have likewise never met. I think every one who ever was sent on a suicide mission deserves a metal. In one of the letters you site in the video you read the statement, "York did most of the shooting." I have heard that the Germans surrendered to York because he had flanked them and killed several in their trench and they couldn't hit him in his position. And which story of yours is correct were 6 still in the fight, or was it 7, or were all 16 still fighting when the Germans surrendered, because the position York was shooting from gave the Germans no cover? Did you attempt to contact the prisoner's families to see what stories they told their descendants? In York's favor was Tennessee Statesman the Honorable Cordell Hull, who advanced York for all he could get out of him for political advantage. If I'm not mistaken Tennessee gave him a house and some land. Another thing, as a veteran lower enlisted don't look at date of rank, or the Sargent said I was in charge. When the lead starts flying one corporal isn't going to check with another corporal before taking action. One corporal was at the bottom of the hill the other corporal was at the top of the hill when the shooting stopped. Seems like you're trying to make wine out of a bunch of sour grapes. Again all those men deserve metals, but that doesn't diminish the action York took that day, if York had stayed with the others they would all be dead, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
He had me wondering what York actually did but he didn't talk about that. This was about him uncovering the truth about the men that were ignored for their contribution and it feels like he needed to avoid talking about what York did because it might diminish the authors' story. All should of been given credit but I want to know what actually happened.
Superhero York did it all by himself.
The other cowardly soldiers were only spectators.
- sarcasm
York even publicly stated that if the other men involved didn’t do what they did , that all of them would have died . He gave them all credit as well , but no soldier there disputes that York was doing the most shooting , thx for your comment
As a 27 year veteran of the Coast Guard and Navy and an avid historian I've seen many instances of the award of the CMH that should be revoked. Primary among those to be revoked should be the non-combat awards: Charles Lindbergh, Richard Byrd and Floyd Bennett, the Navy divers who help rescue the Squalus after she sank. WWI was the start of the ramp-up of US military decorations. Eddie Rickenbacker was awarded 9 Distinguished Service Crosses... mainly because the authorities were trying to keep up with the allied decorations. One of Rickenbacker's was elevated to a CMH in the 1930's (like Donovan's... who do you know?). The "Silver Star" that is mentioned in the video was actually the "Citation Star" in WWI and was a silver star device on the Victory Medal and was upgraded to an actual separate medal after the war. Wound stripes became the Purple Heart. Lots of things folks don't know and took me years to find out about.
Napolian said he could get men to stand in front of cannons by pinning medels on there chests.....
If you take a look at real misuse of the Medal of Honor, take a look at the recipients during the Indian Wars. Several were awarded for getting water at the Litter Bighorn. One was awarded for holding horses at Wounded Knee. One was awarded at Wounded Knee to a soldier who chased a fleeing Indian several miles before he killed him.
I'm not a big fan of revisionist history - but I am a fan of the truth. I was in Kindergarten when President Kennedy was assassinated - so, I've been a conspiracy theorist all my life. And I often hate myself for the cynicism I've succumbed to.
Nevertheless, our lives are meaningless if we don't strive to live with integrity, and living with integrity means lining up with the truth as much as is in us. It ain't pleasant, it ain't pretty. Many of my heroes have been tarnished by reports of the truth about them - and we are reminded that we should not idolize anyone. There is One who lived blameless - and the World rejoiced to see Him crucified....
From what I understand, many men who deserved the metal weren't awarded one because the metals were given out so freely, by the time they got to the man who deserved one, there were none left.
5r5
Although I have not heard that he personally said as much, many MoH recipients take the position that his men earned the award; he just wears it for them.
Yes, that's called being humble and acknowledging that they did not do this alone!
He never denied that he didnt have help, Once York got so famous others wanted in on it, remember the award for the CMOH was $10 a month. My father and I have visited Sgt, York and his wife many times, and ate dinner with them. He was bed ridden at the time, we would stop and eat and then visit with him, my farther and him would speak of farming and the price of cattle and such. We lived in Albany Kentucky the next town over from his farm. The book, Alvin York by Douglas Mastriano, goes into great detail about the shell casings found. The awards board ask a second time if any other solider deserved anything else, the commander said no. He also had statements from the German officers that were captured that confirmed Yorks's version.
Military is quite something. As someone who served, rules are for the lower ranks, Politics for the upper ranks. You should understand before you enter.
Never told me before I took two paces forward, raised my right hand and swore my life away.
I did understand and so I did not enter.
Thank you for helping to bring this story out. It sounds like this struggle has been going for a long time. I had never heard it before.
This was fantastic! I loved the movie with Gary Cooper, so this is a bit disappointing. But it is always best to know the truer story. It also makes me sad to think about the soldiers who did not get the recognition they deserved while alive.
War movies of the early postwar era loved to do that though, create comic book heroes out of regular soldiers.
Audie Murphy was indeed quite a tough customer and legendary in action and character but he wasnt manning that machine gun on a burnt out m-10 because he was so badass or knew he was the best. Really, he was trying to die and take as many with him as he could while sparing his brothers. He was already suffering from severe ptsd, and after his very close friend was killed by germans pretending to surrender he regularly would try to do suicide mission assignments.
The real story of Murphy is a better portrayal of strength of character than any golden age schlock could ever be.
I talked to a tech support person named "York" and he was from Tennessee. I asked him if he was related to Sgt York and he said he was proud to be kin but surprised I knew about him.
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Yeah but York should have spoken up about what really happened. He had a lot of opportunities to do so.
For all we know, he may have; but, no one was interested in changing the 'Official Narrative'.
Alvin York had a house and a 400 acre farm given to him for his heroic actions in "The Great War". That could a big reason he felt unable to tell the truth and also why his family is unable to sully the family name today by giving any credence to these claims.
Telling the truth takes real courage and that's what the speaker has.
Bravo! Striking a blow against corruption and self-interest at the expense of other brave deserving men
Great analysis and delivery! Can't wait to read the book .
My grandfather grew up near Alvin York, and worked with him for a while sometime before the War. He died in the mid 60s -- would have loved to hear stories about that era.
I grew up in the next county and remember going to York's funeral. I think some of the people in the area were not as impressed with York as the military would like to believe. My g-grandfather delivered some of York's children, at a cost of .25 cents. The Veterans Hospital in Murfreesboro along with highways and parks are named after him. Thinking about it now, Cordell Hull who is also from that area, may have had something to do with it as well. Needless to say, the myth still lives in that area.
Thank you for sharing this presentation. One can help but wonder how many times something like this has happened.
My father rescued 100 children from PLO terrorists that were threatening to blow up the plane with all aboard (BOAC VC10 Dawson's field in Jordan)
He managed to persuade the PLO just to blow up the plane as that would make their political point but that murdering children would be bad PR for them.
He got the children to relative safety ,the cellar of a hotel with no electricity ,no running water and a bucket as a toilet while a viscuios civil war was raging overhead.
They were caught in a cross fire as the opposing sides shot through the building with 50mm.
My father did some recces to get food under the threat of being shot on sight and dashed all the way to the red cross dodging sniper fire to try and get some help.
The manhole covers had been removed and the manholes were full of corpses so cholera now became a great concern
Well he did get all the hostages out at great danger to himself it was very worrying for my family at the time.
He got a very nice plaque from BOAC extolling his courage and living up to the motto BOAC takes very good care of you.
I think he may have got some pay bonus too.
His boss who was in London got an OBE.
You should here what black soldiers went through
Sometimes I would rather believe that Sgt York was a superman. Thank you for bringing forth this additional information.
Always someone around to tear down someone who is no longer around to defend themself.
I bet you defend Michael jackson too
Excellent presentation. In my opinion, it's never to late to hear the truth. The officers who distorted the real facts to enrich there military service, should have been court martialed, because this takes away the sacrifices all these men made during that bloody war.
I remember watching this movie with my dad when I was a kid back in the 60's! I remember thinking it didnt make any sense how one guy capture so many of the enemy soldiers!!!!
Good stuff, I believe you have it right, corruption and deceit are certainly not a new thing, to bad the other guys didn't get recognition also, I'm 70 years old and this is the first time I have seen anything about this other than the story put forth by the media, fake news is not a new thing either.
I also believe that every soldier we heard regarding this story should receive credit where credit is due
Okay, I've listened to the presentation and acknowledge there were other soldiers there. But...what I didn't hear was "What happened?" You never said "York didn't go up the hill..." You didn't say "York didn't kill 20+ Germans and didn't capture anyone..."
"Sgt. York" is one of my favorite movies, but I always wondered what happened to the rest of the squad. What were their stories? Was "Pusher" a real person, or a character that they made to fit the movie? I remember the part of the movie, where York (?) asked "Where is Sgt. Savage?" "He was almost cut in half by a machine gun..." That stuck with me.
This doesn’t disprove what happened, also because an NCO is in charge doesn’t mean they did everything. He was responsible for the platoon. Just because he was in charge doesn’t mean anything. War is fluid. Did anyone follow York up when he engaged the Germans. Unless the Sgt in Charge did anything in the battle to capture the Germans doesn’t change the fact the York captured the Germans. From what I know of this battle the men weren’t pinned down.
Is the author a soldier? Guys pinned down shooting doesn’t change the story. Yes, they did their part, he had not proved York didn’t do what he did. He didn’t offer a different version of the battle.
Thank you Mr. Gregory and The WW I Museum for this enlightening video.
Excellent presentation thank you for presenting the evidence you found I don't feel any less about corporal York it's just wonderful to see that the other men get their due
A lot of great investigating. Excellent job.
Thank you for bringing this to light Mr. Gregory !!!! They are all heroes !!!
Those Generals over then Cpl York, took advantage of his known conscientious objector status and used it to promote their Division. I don't doubt that they swayed him sticking with their narrative of what happened, although York probably never took full responsibility for the capture of the German soldiers that day.
When he told his side of the story when taken back to the battlefield, accompanied by the Generals, I don't doubt they coerced or told him to stick to their narrative . I'm sure there are many soldiers of the day that doubted this story from the very beginning and, by them putting York on a pedestal all by himself, made the whole story seem unrealistic. I also don't doubt that the Generals had an idea of using this story for building morale amongst the Troops in theater. He was their pawn. Having that many soldiers surrender to one man is highly suspect. For them to do this to Sgt. York, they stole the valor of all the other men that actually participated in this action with him. As noted in this video, politics played a role in the military back then, and sadly, still does to this very day.
Interesting presentation. Honestly most of my understanding of Alvin York was from the movie. Thank you.
Thank you Mr. Gregory. An academician shines light on corruption.
Excellent research & presentation. Well done. Great tribute to the other men involved.
Great presentation!
Wow! The valor must be properly recognized for those brave men. If truth does not prevail, there is no honor. It would be a stain on all that served.
Wonderful presentation, thank you...The truth is often hurtful, to some...
This is more than a story polished in the retelling, and far less than Gregory, "Pappy" Boyington's statement (about himself, really) in his autobiography, "Baa-Baa Black Sheep", "Show me a hero and I'll show you a bum."
Every other Medal of Honor awardee has been modest about receiving the medal, saying words like, "Others deserve this medal, I have the honor of carrying it for them."
Sergeant Ranney, from "Band of Brothers", wrote to Major Winter, who related the correspondence to the interviewer as part of the Television series, "Grandpa, were you a hero in the war? Ranney replied to his grandson, "No, but I served in a Company of heroes.
Military politics is a whole order of magnitude greater than the ordinary politics that we think is so terrible.
Outstanding.
Thanks for sharing.
You’re breaking down York, do you plan on breaking down the Battle of Belleau Wood the same way. The movie does show other soldiers taking the German POW’s.. How about Major General Smedley D. Butler and Sergeant Major Daniel Daly USMC 90-00
I am actually a primary Marine Corps historian. Kevin Seldon does Belleau Wood but I have taken the down the battle of Blanc Mont on 4 October when the Marines retreated from battle. I even got an award from the Marine Corps for that article.
Semper fi. Engr 1971
Did or did not York charge up the hill? If so, the rest is meaningless. Doesn't matter if he acted alone or had fire support. HE put himself in grave danger. The rest is sour grapes. And with that, I'm going to watch Sgt. York yet again. A great movie about a great man.
Absolutely! He started this presentation stating the squads commander was killed placing Corp. York in charge. No combat soldier ever said that they solely completed any mission. In battle you fight for your brothers with you, a writer only guesses at situational behavior. Also Officers are not demoted due to peace time. So much of this mans opinions are obviously from a leftest bias view hence the hate mail.
Yeah fantasy is more cooler than reality...
Especially when it confirms what you want to believe.
Jesus, cant we just disagree without the lefty or righty thing. York was sensationalized and sold many papers and boosted many career's. Not unusual at all. Not to say York wasn't brave or deserving. He obviously was as were the others and all who lost their lives.
Yeap! He “SINGLE HANDEDLY” charged up the hill. The other soldiers where only spectators.
Right?
- sarcasm
Thank You All for your extreme efforts to recognise the TRUE story of what happened on that fateful day.
I will say this. That what happens in war is often forgotten and to many times only the the dead know the truth. Anyone who takes the approach you have to say "but what about the other men?" I say just read. The numbers don't lie. The men who fought with Alvin were extremely important. It took all of them to take the hill and when the smoke cleared it took all of them to march a 132 prisoners back to their own line. What Alvin did on the 8th of October was what he had to do. When I read York's diary and the events of that day I always new it took all of the men with him to give him the opportunity to make the shots he made and to pull off his part of the capture of the Germans on hill 223. Be careful when comes to pointing fingers. All men can and do lie! We can give the proper credit and respect to all men who fought that day without having to tear down what Alvin accomplished. I will end with this. Stories become myths and myths become legends. But the heroes of that day will never die!
Extremely well done!
Sgt. York's medal represents the heroic actions of the entire squad. Unfortunately not all can get the medal. However, they should have been recognized, because they are all brave men. I personally don't care about the politics surrounding his award. If this author had served in the military, he would understand the politics. I just hope one day the other brave men will be recognized with the medals they earned.
Exceptionally well researched and presented. Thank you.
Awesome stuff.
Very very interesting and I was always open to more of the happenings from the others that were there. Seemed to be not much. Is why I wondered. One man does not always make a one many army. Thanks for this presentation. I like it.
Thank you Mr. James P. Gregory for all the time you put into this to get the real story told. God Bless all of the men. They are all heroes.
It was never claimed that York did it single handedly. York was the only NCO not wounded or dead. Early, who was wounded 17 times, ordered York, twice, to take command. York was in charge of seven unwounded men, three wounded and 50 POWs. He came out with 132. Somebody had to guard the POWs and someone had to maneuver to take on the machineguns and York was the best shot. The movie shows other members of the patrol shooting at the Germans. Cutting was the only one who complained. Rickenbacker didn't get his MOH until 1930.
Crap like this(Skull-duggery by career military men) is why many good men separate from the military and won't have anything more to do with the military; they say - and who can blame them? - "I'll NEVER have anything to do with those liars and jerks." It's serious with war veterans because they often have seen friends and good people die unfairly because of these self-serving weasels. And it's ALWAYS been this way; guys like this were mentioned by Romans and Greeks long ago. War is deadly enough as it is.
Being a Tennessean it was aways a cool thought but a bit too much to swallow. York may have tried to do good with the proceeds but the sins of the father seem to be carrying on through the children, grand and great grand children. For a conciencience objector, the legacy seems to be bitter irony. Maybe that's the best lesson from Yorks story.
I know how those other men feel. For I am aware of individuals being injured in the war in Iraq and due to army politics did not receive a Purple Heart will other men did receive awards some earned some not. While others actions and even written statements disappeared and now if 13 years later still never received the Purple Heart that they deserved.
When some people who never served try to passs themselves off as heroes with stolen valor, most people think of these acts as despicable. I think it's even more despicable when the Army steals the valor of men who truly deserve awards, but don't receive them due to "political" considerations. In my opinion, the Army has egg on its face for not investigating Alvin York's actions, or the actions of the entire patrol. Everyone of those other 16 men involved in that action should have received recognition, not just Alvin York.
You talked a lot about what the other men did, but nothing of what sg York did.Im sure they were all pinned down even though the were firing they were facing machine guns. Without someone getting in an advantageous position of firing, the end would have disastrous for all the men, including sg. York.
York told "what" he did, with the collusion 0f 2 commissioned officers.
I watched a video several years ago and the family members of the 16 were interviewed but I can’t seem to find It now it was very eye opening
That would be interesting to see.
I do want to say that Lindsay deserves to not be viewed entirely as a villain. He did the wrong thing upfront, certainly but he took a look at himself in his ivory tower and had the courage to say "I did the wrong thing" and then tried to make it right. The courage it takes to not just keep coasting when the battle is already over is something that should not be dismissed.
Popular history should always be viewed with some skepticism.
So this author says Alvin York -- born and raised on the Cumberland plateau in East Tennessee -- did not have a "twang"......
That always bothered me how the people in the area were portrayed as being so backward in their ways of speaking. My family is from that area and they didn't or don't to this day speak that way.
Thank you for straightening the truth out.
one man taking 130 prisoners and take out machine is impossible but 16 men is formidable
Well done.
ditto
Always knew there was more to this story. Most of what I saw, the movie especially, often had me reaching for my hip waders. Even though the patriot in me wanted to cheer. Hopefully the book lines out the details on the battlefield forensics. Gregory's assessment of York's role in perpetuating the myth rings true. What little I have read of his later life indicates he became a bit reclusive, maybe due to twinges of guilt over how the story had played out. York Family reaction? Well often families get very invested into a "heroic" ancestor's story and it becomes part of their own identity. They are naturally reluctant to give that up. On one hand, I am very sad to see this myth busted. On the other hand, better to clear the air and tell the story correctly, properly giving credit where it's due. Hoping the book will shed light on what York ACTUALLY did, which was no doubt heroic and deserving of recognition.
Being bed ridden will turn one into a recluse. The man was not a recluse before that.
I dont see why this needs to be the death of a legendary story though. Instead of being the story of Sgt York its now the story of the 16 men who beat more than 10x their own number. Heroics are heroics and the interference of men who didnt commit them is a common thing to be brushed aside. Everyone wants to ride to glory on the back of someone elses achievement, just like a columnist making Dan Daly at Belleau wood say a storybook, prepared speech style line in his writeup(that very likely did not happen) doesnt change how brave and remarkable his actions were.
As a child in early 1964 (we had a new 64 Impala). My father Drove the family to visit Alvin York at his home. Dad drilled it in to us to be super nice and only address the man as Mr. York. Being 6 I was scared to even move. After a very long trip down very curvy roads we arrived to a white house. Dad knocked on the door and then he walked around the house. After about a hour he can and got the rest of us. York was bed ridden. The bed was very odd to me. Dad introduced us. Mr. York smiled and "I only did my part" and dad scooted me away from him. But not after I touched Mr. York's hand. This sticks in my mind because. My Father has two Silver Stars (Korea). When people asked him about what his done to be awarded the Silver Stars. He would always reply "I Only did my part."
The government does not lightly allow outsiders to question or place doubts on their documents and narrative. Something seemed odd or out of place concerning the York story. I am glad that the truth is finally coming out and the others can be recognized for their exploits and service.
What a shame the York family are not interested in seeing a more accurate account of the actions of that day. To honour the 16 does nothing to reduce the sheer guts of the lead in this story, in some ways it enhances the part York played, to risk one's own life is easy, to actively risk the lives of others will or should, play upon the leaders mind, if he survives, he will return to speak to the loved ones of those lost, never an easy thing. As we look at what happened over 100 years ago, surely it is time to set the record straight to honour and pay tribute to all fighting men who have fought for their country whether the cause be just" or not in our eyes. Regarding the film, I think we need to remember that this was an early time in WW2 for America and possibly needed a "Rip Roaring Story" to remind people that, while War is a terrible event sometimes it has to be fought. " Only the dead know the true cost of War"
York's family only knows and believes what he told them.
I as well am a retired army veteran, if you have ever spent any time in the military, you will not be surprised. it is not uncommon for officers write their own medals all the time. I was told to write my award and the major would sign off on it. I refused to do this and I told her if no one can recognize my efforts and what I did then I do not deserve it. It did hurt but the correct thing to do.
Sometimes that wrong people get the credit and awards that other people should get. In the heat of battle many things gets screwed up. When we get separated or are by ourselves and have no one to write us up for metals we don't get anything. The military always want a hero whether it is real or not. I am a 100% disabled war veteran from Vietnam 1966-67 and I have seen this happen before.....
Hmmm.... damned interesting! Thank you!
And l like the movie so much. :-(
The other men were pin down by 2 German machine gun nest and York told them to draw their fire and cover him and keep them busy he made his way up the hills and took out both machine gun nest and serval snipers by him self
Thank you for your work you have honored the 16 . ... A great deal more than medals that would have given them.
Thank You James for doing all of the research to bring this story to our attention. I have watched the movie several times and always wondered how it was really possible for one man to accomplish that much. Listening to your presentation, it's obvious that the other soldiers that were there played a major role that day. But, is there any evidence or documentation that shows what Alvin York did actually do in the battle? Obviously he did participate but, what did actually do?
I would say buy my book to read about it! Haha. But the answer for you is that York did do quite a bit of shooting in the battle. He was in the best position and did account for many dead Germans. He did also stop some Germans that were rushing to the battle. But there is no charging up the hill or a bayonet charge.
I think they found the site a few years ago it's probably still under archaeologists excavation
Thank You and I will buy the book.
@@13jamesjr Are you saying York did not lead a squad to take the machine gun nest?
Thank you so much for letting us know the history of what really happened. So sad that the wrong history was written. Very disappointed that the officers were so dishonest.
One of My Uncles was a Machine Gunner throughout the Italian Campaign as a replacement for losses in North Africa. 168th Regiment 34th Infantry Division . Wounded and returned to action on at least 3 different occasions I know of and awarded the Bronze Star With V Device Louis G. Ardito. He said almost verbatim what Charles Commando Kelly said in His interview with Mike Wallace.
The stories of the other 16 is well researched and interesting. However, the suggestion that the York story is a myth is supported by only the thinnest and minimally credible evidence. I don't doubt that more men than Uork had a lot to do with the true story, but The story was York's story. One of the 16 even says Youk did most of the shooting.
the video implies that York didn't deserve the MOH is shameful.
You should read the book. There’s much more than the presentation.
The speaker did not say that York should not have gotten the medal, He said others should have gotten one also. The speaker said nothing bad against York, watch it again.
Now will he go after Audy Murphy's record?
Everybody that served with murphy swore it was true
Everybody served with york said it was a lie.
I am very grateful to hear this more truthful and research regarding this story because I heard this story on 2 different Christian radio programs only about 15 years ago and assumed it was accurate
Ancillarily, the story about Doug Mastrianno's "research" added color to my opinion about that author and his more recent reputation in PA and national politics. He seems to get a mention in your work, and in the Special Report by the House January 6 Committee.
He and I do not see eye to eye. I included him in my "thank you" slide for a laugh. He "research" has been thoroughly discredited.
From what i can gather is the other men kept the enemies heads down and fought the germans head on while york got to the side (flank) York still Deserves the MOH in my opinion it was no cake walk.