I'm not sure if you know, or can even do anything, but this 13 minute had four advertisements. One at the beginning, the second one was ten to fifteen seconds into the video. Exact same one, and then another two at the middle and third quarter. I know you need ad revenue, but that was a bit much.
Use odysee or lbry, ad free! Find me there. UA-cam "intelligently places ad breaks at ideal spots in the video." I have to go in and edit it later when it does stupid shit like put 4 ads in a 10 minute video. I usually set this to upload in the morning, and then it's published sometime in the afternoon because that's how long it takes Comcast to get my video to UA-cam so by then I'm already out and about Best part is you can't edit mid roll ads placement from the UA-cam studio Android app so I have to wait to get back home to fix it... Mobile apps are so often missing basic functionality to make them usable but I keep hearing people profess that we're moving away from the desktop computer model. Years later, it still puts a bunch of ads into a 10 minute video, and it still does not allow you to edit the placement of them from the mobile app while on the go. You have to use the web browser, set it to desktop site, and browse around with a magnifying glass to actually edit the placement of them on android Find me on odysee or lbry if you want an ad free experience. It's free! UA-cam won't change and fix this shit unless people use something else. I have 20,000 subscribers there and 1.7 million here. Make it happen!
@@rossmanngroup Should think to link your LBRY and Odysee channel in your video description so more people are aware. A lot of people just don't know about those sites and many that do have a certain... perception... about sites like those.
@@rossmanngroup Really hoping Aptera bucks this trend. They are shipping by the end of the year and have very publicly said manuals and parts would be a key differentiator. Tesla is the model everyone is currently emulating and their approach sucks for consumers. PS: UA-cam almost certainly would have a problem with promoting alternative services. Like oldschool TV the AD revenue is what supports the platform. Personally I watch about 3 hours of youtube per day in the background so the expense of premium is definitely worth the time saved. Large internet platforms are essentially a natural monopoly once established because it is massively expensive to get people to switch and takes losing money for 10+ years; even google couldn't displace facebook.
That's because the watermelon people think repairing something means holding onto obsolete technology, the assumption is that we are so goddamn efficient at designing things - and later AI at least will be - that by the time a product reaches the end of its designed lifespan a new version or a completely new paradigm for the field has been achieved and the concept of repairing serves no purpose but clutching to the past you're glorifying with rose-tinted glasses
Had an argument with an apple ideologue about this. "But they claim they recycle!" Apple, known for their planned obsolescence, claims to be a green company.
The people starting these companies see a market opportunity and a strategy that helps generate the most money out of their business. Sadly it seems to be rare for "green" companies to actually be created by and operated with the environment in mind, as their only goal probably is to generate money.
A huge part of the motorbike community is that you work on your bike. Change parts, repair it, etc. That zero is not providing the tools is a huge mistake they’re making.
@channelofstuff How exactly did you come to that conclusion? I haven't worked on many bikes, but I turn wrenches on light and heavy trucks for a living, and those things cost a small fortune to maintain once they start to age. I have a hard time believing tiny, light duty (comparatively) parts that have generally easy access could cost more to service.
@@Kill3rT0fuuu during the time of this story being told (2016) Zero would not sell you parts, and would barely sell authorized dealers parts... even then when they did sell parts to authorized dealers often the wrong parts were sent and it was generally impossible to get anything done. Source: First hand owner of Zero DSR during that same time period and doing work on the bike myself. Also note that to this day currently there is no way to service the motor, batteries, motor controller, or main bike board without connecting to the proprietary Zero software tool and hardware kit that Zero refuses to sell and keeps tight control over - I offered a defunct dealership to buy their data cables after their owner said to hell with Zero; the outcome was that in some contract fine print it would expose the shop to liability if they sold the cables to me versus having to ship these cables they purchased back to Zero at their cost and with no compensation. It's worth noting that Zero Motorcycles is married to the dealership model now for better or (as is much more often the case) for worse. Much worse. Direct sales and service is no longer a viable possibility for Zero Motorcycles it's just far too late and far gone to make a change.
Interesting how all these electric vehicle companies seem to be trying to establish a norm of non-repairability across the board from the very dawn of this industry. The gas car industry is trying to go that way, but mechanics and auto parts stores are so engrained in society from the good old days of when parts and manuals were readily sold and it was EXPECTED that people could buy replacement parts and repair their own shit, or start businesses doing it, that they are having a tough time doing it. We should look at that and make sure people know what they're trying to take away. I know you've mentioned that before.
The gas car industry is not just trying to go that way. The most modern gas cars are also moving towards less and less third party repair and not even third party service. Some modern BMWs can only get an oil change at the dealership. The reason its so commom with electric cars is because they are brand new platforms with whatever cutting edge features the manufacturer puts in there. As soon as a gas car transfers to a new platform it will suffer a similar fate. I want consumer protection laws to prevent this.
I think it's less specifically electric vehicle and more so a wider tech industry mindset and since tech thinks it's all encompassing it's basically getting into everything.
This is why i love normal acoustic bikes, they're still extremely repairable and modular, to the point that you can basically carry replacement parts for all but 3 components in a single backpack.
@@themonkeyhand I studied computer engineering for a couple years because I fully bought into this whole tech in everything is the future idea. It's an absolute cancer. Tech may be our future, but that doesn't mean it's a good future. A future full of tech is not going to be an environmentally friendly future and it's not going to be a consumer friendly future. Modern cars are a perfect example of that. Cars are quickly turning into primarily tech products that have the added functionality of transporting you, just like smartphones. They're a tech product first and a phone second, costing us more per year than just a phone and being horrible for the environment when they're thrown away en masse year by year as these companies pump out new model after new model.
they dont want us to repair electric cars for bullshit safety and security nonsense they want us to keep buying new cars every 2 or 5 years just like smart phones
Energica shreds Zero all day long. They charge faster, go further, and are faster(not to mention way sexier in my opinion, being made by designers from all the italian superbike companies)
Zero lost me when they were planning to have people pay to unlock features that are already on the product. Like heated grips you have to pay to unlock the usage of even though the hardware is already on the bike.
I don’t see how Tesla and Deere having excessive delays in scheduling service doesn’t by default make the case for right to repair. That One Wheel and Zero don’t have a authorized repair facility in a reasonable distance also makes the argument for us.
Hey Louis, hoping you'll see this. I work at a repair store in the UK and you've been a great inspiration over the last 5 years! On the subject of the video I also own a couple of gas motorcycles, and I've been very excited about the emerging electric versions. In my experience main brand motorcycle manufacturers (Honda/Suzuki/Kawasaki etc) already provide excellent aftercare for replacement parts / service manuals to the consumer. My view is technology manufacturers just do not want the competition. It's the Apple mentality of keeping everything locked to the company so by the time you have bought into it you have no choice but to go back. They know 80% of the components in their devices are standardized and the choice of manufacturer is an illusion. The only real difference is some products are built to a higher quality and might last a few years longer. Again this is solely based on my own experience but every manufacturer is susceptible to faults, design flaws, defects, QA issues. That is just the reality of mass produces products. What matters most to me is the after-care once that product is sold. This is where very few succeed and so many fail.
I've seen everybody complain about this. It's the same here in Romania as well. Zero motorcycles are idiots when it comes to repairing their motorcycles.
@@sana-cm7oc It's called piracy. All it will take is for one conscientious user to take the time to get the manual scanned and uploaded to a "safe" site, like something with a .io domain.
When I was a TV repairman (retired now), at first, the big retailers had their own repair services. This began to change, as it wasn't profitable for them, so eventually most of the authorized repair shops were independently owned and operated. Of course, almost nobody repairs TV's these days, as it's cheaper to replace an old TV with one with better picture, more features, etc.
Louis, this has been going on since you were 3 years old if my calculations are correct. In the early 90's I worked with Corian countertops manufactured by DuPont, to get their repair components and materials you needed to commit use 25k per year in these materials (a good bit in the early 90's) or become a dealer. Thanks for the content and greetings from the NJ Bayshore.
Louis, I've been fixing crap for people for the last four decades. I'll take on pretty much anything, electronic or engine driven. A big chunk of that time as a dealer level master service tech, so I've seen the dealer side of things, and the independent side as well. If someone brings me -anything- with a spongy brake, it's a no brainer to flush and bleed it out. No manufacturer support required, as long as the cap of the reservoir is labelled adequately to identify the type of fluid needed, and if not, I have ways of identifying what it had in it before. I can't wrap my head around the mindset of a shop turning a customer away when they're clearly in a bind and incapable to fixing it themselves. I love to void warranties. I was elated to find complete wiring diagrams in a pocket inside my washing machine when it freaked out. I'm old and it's getting harder to figure things out, much less remember how things work and have to figure it out repeatedly.... If I can't fix it, I don't want to own it. I'd rather just build my own from scratch. I'm going to look in to your bike project later. Thanks for standing up for humanity.
When we thought about electric cars 20 years ago we never thought about the connectivity and software side of what 20 years from then would be like and how that would factor into things like repairability i.e. disconnecting the battery on an electric skateboard makes it useless.
And I feel like that's the issue. They're cramming so much electronics and software into what SHOULD be a very simple drivetrain to intentionally make it impossible to fix them. On top of the fact they refuse to supply anyone with parts or diagrams to actually repair the damn things. They're making EV's as disposable as the batteries inside them. Replacing the battery will total out most EV's I bet once the time comes for them to be replaced, and I doubt a lot of EV's will even have battery pack's available when the time comes to replace them. It's stupid.
@@kasuraga they won't even be worth repairing even if the batteries were relatively affordable. The rest of the maintenance makes it just as disposable.
@@TheGuruStud I was tellin a coworker a while back that I doubt you'll see any 20 year old tesla's on the road cause EV battery packs aren't standardized and you won't be able to fix any of the electronics if they fail by that time. It's sad. They've turned cars into disposable ewaste just like cell phones.
@@kasuraga If there will be a DIY community to maintain them, you will see them like you see cars from '70s. Batteries themselves are usually using standard cells so you can make modules yourself. Other electronics can be reverse engineered to emulate hardware parts that might not be available like the BMS, just like EV conversions usually need to do. Worst case, you will need to replace most if not all electronics with third party solutions to have the car work with newer battery tech or motors, but it is doable.
@@kasuraga Part of the problem is government safety regulation. If you work in the Automotive industry, safety and liability is a huge concern for auto companies since if there is a mistake, it will be very costly. In every car ICE or EV, you need your electronics to basically never fail or to do so in a safely manner. Also these electronics must also be secure so people can't get into your car under any means or if they do, they shouldn't be able to drive away. All of this requires a lot of RnD, software and hardware to do and it applies to any car on the road, not just EVs.
Motorcycles are traditionally more DIY when it comes to maintenance and repair so they are burning their base. It’s important since bikes are not relied on as much as cars so people justify their purchase by saving money on the maintenance. Thankfully, Kawasaki plans to go all-electric very soon and I don’t see them changing regarding the availability of parts, service manuals, tools, etc.
On Kawasaki, they outright refuse to sell service manuals in Europe. So I pirated it. Fuck them. Just proves to me that I don't need to ever buy a new bike.
@@Lolwutfordawin Hmm… I bought the Clymer for my Ninja but the manual I found online was a European version. I imagine this has more to do with local distributors and EU regulations since they happily sell them most everywhere else.
I just got a manual for my Kawasaki from Partzilla. But weird that Kawasaki doesn't sell you a manual out right if you want one, but will tell you the manual publication number.
@@ErAcEr100 I actually sent them an email, they explicitly told me it's reserved exclusively for Kawasaki authorized service centers. At least they were kind enough to send me the wiring diagram so I could actually hook up my auxiliary lights properly!
Nice to know that Zero are a arse to get spares/manuals for as I was considering buying one, but hearing about how customer unfriendly Zero are I think I’ll be looking elsewhere. The guy you have the email from is pretty lucky having a dealer so close, In the UK we have ONE dealer covering the whole of the country, which would be a 323 miles 6 hour trip and that's if there is no major road works.
@@rob21 I'm trying to start an electric motorcycle company with right to repair right on the front page. Every bike I sell comes with a user service manual and all replacement parts are available for purchase. I may not have a dealer network, but I'm not stopping anyone from repairing or doing service themselves or taking it to their local bike shop.
There are almost 20 Zero dealerships in the UK and we have right to repair laws here...Just go the zero website and look at the dealer map, there everywhere.
@@Cookie-yl8uq I did look at the dealer map and it only showed the one in Norfolk, but still If I've bought a bike I own it, It is not for the manufacturer to put limits on the performance or limit the availability of spares/manuals. If they want to be as anal about it as OneWheel, I'll buy from another company who isn't.
I'm an owner of a Niu (electric) moped and am looking at buying an electric motorcycle once I get my motorcycle license. Now I know to not buy a Zero, sadly. But it's better to know before buying one... Thanks Louis!
As someone who rides and would like to get an electric bike eventually, looks like Zero is not an option anymore. They don't have the popularity in the motorcycle industry to try and play strongarm like this. Looks like I'm sticking to the sound of an inline 4 for now!
As an automotive engineer, it baffles me we're having these issues. An internal combustion engine is so, but so much more complex than an electric motor. It's a true nightmare, the amount of parts, clearances, etc...
But electromotors are _"new technology"_ (lol) and _"new technology is inherently highly complex and dangerous!"_ 😨 ...in the mind of the average, non-technical person and that's why all these new EV manufacturers are trying and why they _might_ actually succeed. 😢
From an engineering standpoint, I see a real conundrum with passenger vehicles. Yes, in theory, electrically-driven vehicles can indeed be simpler. Well, just take a current sample, I don't care what make it is...and have a closer look. What will you find? A massive network of controllers: powertrain, chassis electrical, and my pet peeve, "infotainment". In a conventional vehicle, these systems seen to get along reasonably well. They speak at different data rates. On an EV, the complexity has reached a whole new level. I see "ghost" faults, most notably databus based issues, and intangibles. Customers bring their vehicle in after experiencing myriad strange warnings, stalls, failures to "start". The list is impressive.
Answer is iterative improvements through motorsports. ICE motorcycles has been through hell and back in demanding races such as Suzuka 8 hour endurance race, or Dakar rally. Decades of constant refinement and improvements have been made in terms of performance and reliability. On the other hand EV startups just slap together battery motors and controllers and call it a bike. Poor range, poor reliability? Don't worry the green army will lap it up. MotoE which runs full size Energetica EGO bikes can barely match the pace of 250cc Moto3 bikes, while running much shorter distance.
I just built my ebike. I bought a bafang mid drive kit from a guy here who was getting rid of it and I learned so much while installing it, that I am very confident I can fix most parts on it. Thank you for being an inspiration Louis.
I can’t say the brand because of NDAs, but I had a 2015 electric motorcycle that ended up very similar! Dealer dropped them because my bike was in the shop for months waiting for parts. Another dealership a year later opened up at the edge of my range and the guy wanted to sell me a new motorcycle instead of fix it. He ended up wiping the logs instead of troubleshooting it (logs aren’t readable without specialized software from manufacture) and updated the firmware. 3 years and $25,000 in legal fees and costs of being without a vehicle for a year total at 3 dealerships, I got a tiny settlement and NDA. Just wanted it over with. I’m afraid there’s zero chance I can tell you the brand though.
Did you try to contact your state's consumer protection agency? They are supposed to help consumers resolve issues,I would have refused an NDA and instead go to them for assistance. At one time a company ignored my problem for a defective item until I filed a report against them with the state consumers protection agency. In the future do not sign a NDA or release. Instead let every protection agency know about this problem if it gets large enough they have the power to sue these companies.
@@900Yugo I did, my state sent my complaint to the company and I get zero movement on it. Maybe two or three replies, and my state said basically, "well, we tried". Filed complaints with every agency and state I could. Then it sat in my garage as I forked out lawyer money for it over a year or two. Turns out I gave them too long to repair it and went past the lemon law period, weakening my case. I'm a sucker for the EV movement. Ironically, since they were the only electric motorcycle around, I gave them another chance. Had 4 bikes total, only 1 worked as expected. Wife tried to learn on one and it started shutting down/rebooting while riding. Same run around, firmware update, no root cause, everything looks great. We sold it for parts because we couldn't handle the stress of lawyering up again. Two NDAs, total crap company, and I can't even disparage them or tell my story without dancing around their name.
@@ZeroFun Wow. Worse than my case with a pair of shoes I had problems with. After reporting to the state they offered me a free pair of shoes free of charge. No need to sign anything,just had to pay delivery costs. Of course a motorcycle is an investment. I couldn't afford to even buy a motorcycle let along ride one.
@@numberq1134 Zero Motorcycle. Forces consumers to sign NDA's. That should be illegal. That's like Tesla forcing people to sign NDAs simply because their car catches on fire while charging. Then Tesla offers a settlement but one must sign a NDA. I would have refused and let everyone know,including the TV stations.
I’m into tech but also a motorcyclist, so this video overlaps my two main interests. I love the emerging electric motorcycle market, and I hadn’t even thought about repairability yet. Most guys do basic wrenching on their own motorcycles and most bikes use off the shelf stuff you can get on the internet. The lack of ability to get parts and fix them makes it infinitely worse to deal with with than a normal bike
Yea, its weird how the manual to my Yamaha Dragstar 1100 from 1999 shows how to remove your front fork to renovate it, but nowadays it's pretty much the opposite. I don't know about motorcycles today but the fork part is one of those parts I rather not do on my own.
From the average Joe here. I'm a Production Engineer with hands on CNC machinist skills. I know C++ programming and understand IC controllers, and circuits beyond the hobbyist. Probably not at all in your league as far as computer repair. Here is my point. These companies loose a ton of customers like me. I will not even entertain purchasing a product I can't support myself or take to someone like you who is NOT trying to sell me a new product. The items I own I take a sense of pride in. These companies literally strip that whole component of ownership away when they treat us like infants and strip away our freedom of true ownership. And as you often point out, these companies narrative that they do this because they care and want to keep us safe is literally insulting. Yes, there are some that require that level of support. That's OK. But to force that story on all of us is insulting.
When the mechanic said that they couldn't bleed the brakes because the bike was electric. That was a cop-out. They just didn't want to do work on a vehicle that they have a negative bias against. Kind of like getting an import car fixed in the 70's. Good luck. Nobody wanted to touch them. The "Not Made Here" mentality.
Thanks for this warning about Zero Motorcycles Louis. I really appreciate the heads-up on this brand. I'd been circling around the idea of adding a Zero to my bike collection, but I'm certainly cured of the idea now. There is NO WAY, that I'll buy a wannabe bike that I can't service myself. I'd venture to say most bikers are of the same mindset. I got rid of my Volt for the same reason, I couldn't get a GM manual for it. There is a reason they call them stealers. Cheers!
Recently I tried repairing my Dyson vacuums and a cordless Echo leaf blower. Each had a few low voltage cells. I made sure the replacement cells were equal quality, charged/ discharged to equal the voltage the cells in the pack were at. Nothing. Looks like the BMSs lock down if you attempt to replace a bad cell. I have a lot of experience with rechargeable lithium batteries. Have been using ( and abusing lol) them with high performance RC aircraft. I know they need very specific conditions to operate. Go outside those conditions and they aren’t happy. Anyway, it’s amazing that the BMSs are designed the way they are. Safety is the last thing on these guys minds.
@5:48 You can definitely register a custom-built motorcycle. They will need to be checked by your local DMV to make sure it meets their standards for safety and emissions but it is totally possible.
had two zero's. a fx and a fxs. loved the riding experience, accelerated as hard as my old r6, would still own one if it were not for the issue you raised. my fxs died one day, cryptic error code. took it to the dealership. they sat on it for 4 months, finally concluding that i needed new batteries. that was going to cost $6k. however, unknown to them i had a second bike so i did the old switcheroo with the batteries. fx and fxs are practically identical. made no difference. so i suspected it wasn't the batteries. spent five minutes looking over the bike and found that one of the throttle wires was frayed. ordered a grip throttle assembly with wiring and installed it. bingo. problem solved. never felt good about the bikes after that so i sold them. in summary, cryptic, proprietary error codes combined with useless dealership maintenance killed the ownership experience. today i'm happy with e-bikes but have my eye open for any company that produces an electric motorcycle but with more a utilitarian, less proprietary, fix it yourself philosophy. in case someone's legal dept. wants to come after me, have at it. i have archived all the communications with zero and the dealership as well as the receipts for the replacement parts.
Hopefully if there is ever a class action lawsuit you can provide them those records and sign on to it or something. I feel like these shady practices don't have a leg to stand on legally. Of course all it seems to take is the purchase of little political good will and they are getting away with it.
Hi Louis. You don't know how right you are in regards to the Zero Motorcycle company. I also got a 2016 DSR and have put 87Kmi on it through LA traffic.That said, I do not suffer from unreachable service centers. But, only 1 of the 4 service centers that I've been to has had acceptable service. 2 of the 4 service centers I dealt with are criminally incompetent and even Zero's customer service lied for them. My bike has had the battery replaced under warranty twice and the third battery is on its last legs. My friend had a 2015 SR and his problems with the dealer and Zero directly were so bad he actually got them to BUY HIS BIKE BACK!!! to get him to stay quiet. But, to be a little fair, big Li-Ion batteries scare the jeebers out of me. I'm an Electrical/Computer Engineer and a certified aircraft mechanic. I've been around, lets say, high energy equipment a long time and have seen too many safety videos for Li-Ion batteries and Arc-Flash danger. BUT THAT IS WHY IS NECESSARY TO HAVE THE SERVICE INFORMATION SO THE WARNINGS CAN BE FOLLOWED!!!!!. Sorry for the all-caps. This kinda triggered me, my bike is going to die soon and I can't fix it myself and they already tried to get me to trade "up". :( Which doesn't make any sense to me. I guess I just have to save up to have someone replace the battery or wait till a reputable manufacturer comes out with something better. I used to repair and re-sell vintage (or at least retro) motorcycles, but gas bikes need so much maintenance and TLC. I need a battery powered motorcycle to commute around here. Thanks for making these videos.
I've long considered getting a Zero motorcycle since I love riding and it would make sense for my daily commute. This video certainly convinces me otherwise. A big part of owning a bike for many motorcyclists is also the garage time working on the bike. Having a simple maintenance schedule was attractive, but the idea of not being able to order parts or work on it in my own garage for something as simple as bleeding the brake lines and properly returning things to torque specs is a hard pass for me.
Zero motorcycle? 25K!😳 And then no service availability. You know, This is why I like working on my own Gasoline Car or motorcycle. I'd call the state attorney Generals office. Authorized dealerships? With all the vehicles on the road today. What a total disaster. I totally agree with you Louis!
Many (most) states will let you register something you built. That's how kit cars work. It's also how Local Motors works. Some states are much more strict than others in terms of requirements. It's usually easier than trying to restore a salvage title in terms of registration.
I think you are spot on in your commentary. We all appreciate you trying to help consumers and small businesses. It really is insane that you cannot fix your own stuff.
You are spot on. As a appliance repair tech years ago Sears tried to repair all appliances. Failed as supporting the multitude of parts and special features especially in electronics
For a lot of people, especially in the US, motorcycles are a luxury item these days. They are more like a secondary vehicle unless you live in a more urban area where you can actually use it to commute. It would be interesting to see how other manufacturers compare with repair-ability. I wouldn't be surprised if the Harley Livewire treats it the same. I've seen some other electric motorcycles I have seen are crate kits they ship directly to you and don't even have dealerships but they are also less expensive, probably not the same level of quality and not made in america.
I’m not sure about other states, but New Mexico will issue you a VIN for a self build vehicle, including a motorcycle. You have to document all parts to ensure it’s not from a chop shop. I don’t know about reselling them, but you can definitely build just about anything you want and register it.
I daily a Zero, and I agree with most of the statements in this video. I also work in the automotive industry, and part of the problem also seems that Zero just hasn't figured out the support side that the 100 year old companies have well established. Building out processes for recalls, repair manuals, and replacement parts has a relatively low short-term ROI but is significant for brand loyalty. Personally, I hope my next motorcycle is electric, but from a much more established brand. Motorcycles also have a massive DIY repair expectation around them, I have copies of shop manuals for all my ICE bikes and have repaired significant engine failures in my garage while sipping beers. An argument against publishing a shop manual (and inevitably allowing any average Joe repairing his EV at home) is that with the high voltage present, EVs are much more dangerous during the repair than a comparable ICE. By building taller fences on who can work on it, they limit some liability from injuries caused during repairs. I imagine they aren't insurable or have a similar legal team to the larger Japanese or German brands to accept that level of liability.
As an automotive technician I somewhat agree with you, the batteries have an inherent danger to them. However one compared to all the other dangerous motorcycle aspects it's really just a drop in the bucket 🤣 Where I slightly disagree is with the liability side, locking up technology just leads to people blindly breaking into it. Either way the only thing that's going to protect a company is a good release of liability and other legal aspects.
Hey Louis Rossmann! Thank you for spearheading the Right to repair battle! I am about to buy a 2 wheeled electric vehicle (scooter or moped) from a company called NIU! I asked the Canadian distributor if they allow parts to be sold to the public and surprisingly the answer was yes! I looked online and brake pads etc were available! So far I haven't heard any right to repair issues with NIU but wonder if you or your viewers have any knowledge on this issue! Ride ride ride!
I'm an owner of a Niu moped and have been very pleased with it (will be selling it soon, but due to other reasons). From what I've found, *all* parts are available to purchase and to my knowledge there are no software blocks. You can buy everything, small to large - from screws, fairings, the throttle/twistgrip, sensors, to batteries, motors, etc. And if you want it to go faster, then you can get a third party ECU for example. I haven't looked as much into documentation for servicing them, but at least the blueprints showing their construction are easily accessible.
Such a timely video, Louis! Been watching your channel for years. Really appreciate these recent videos on reparability. I've been considering a Zero, as I love the idea of a low-maintenance motorcycle. Their treatment of customers (in terms of repairs) is a non-starter for me. I don't want to be beholden to a dealer network and their inflated repair prices to keep my bike. I've owned two Honda ICE bikes years back and while I did use the dealer sometimes, it was great being able to buy parts and do service work myself. I think Zero has convinced me to buy something else. Thanks Zero!
100% fair, and there is no way companies like Apple haven't weighed the profit incentive of reparability vs new sales, yet somehow they continue to cater to the same people clamoring for Environmental protection...Have they ever issued any documentation on their efforts to recycle? Somehow they have a free pass on this
Never heard of Apple being an environmentalist's preferred PC, that is really only prevalent in design fields (and those people are easily amused consumers).
Apple did by saying they recycle e-wastes/frames and use recycled materials on new devices. but recycling and remanufacturing takes more resources than repairing a broken device 90% of time, especially on high end consumer devices.
I'm fortunate to have a friend as a Zero mechanic who helps me troubleshoot my bike whenever something goes wrong. You make excellent points. I'm surprised people haven't just dove in and figured it out and made their own videos. I did find one on how to replace the charger. My bike has had fairly little use (only 4k miles), although I did ship it to Hawaii, and the rainy side of the island at that, so it does get some extreme weather they probably don't test drive them on. But yeah, since I brought it here I've had to replace the charger, the throttle, and also had to lube up the ignition. Recently having some other connectivity problems with the throttle connection (pinched wire?), which is weird. Symptoms are that it is not able to regain connection when I shut the motorcycle off, as if it just can't make the leap but once it has the connection it stays alive and rides until I take the key out again. Seems to be solved just by taking off the headlamp and moving the wires around. Probably due to where I put the wire when I replaced the throttle. Who knows. They really outta design these things to never break, with the wiring going inside the bike frame so that it is totally untouchable. That would be hard to repair, but if they make it right just once, with a really good wire and some really good insulation, and no play when then bike moves around... then theoretically the wiring should never break, ever. Doesn't seem that hard of a goal to attain, in my opinion. But maybe I have expectations of excellence. It's true. I do.
Fair analysis. Manufacturers want to move into a subscription model, where the user is unable to service or customize hardware while the meter is running in perpetuity. Hardware which is rented and subject to vague TOS 🚩
This is why I laugh when Tesla fans say the reason why car companies don't adopt EVs is because they don't want them. That's nuts. This new market of EV vehicles has the consumer trained to treat them like appliances, not things to be personally owned and maintained. So the idea of disposing of them after a manufacturer set period, never personally maintaining them, and having a direct relationship where the manufacturer takes car of everything for a handy profit is just mouth wateringly attractive. We're not even going to get into the massive margins EVs present over ICE.
in some states, you can register a home made vehicle and I personally want that to be the norm. I do agree that a health and safety test is mandatory as well as emissions and what not because a normal car is subject to those standards and if the car doesn't meet that then 100% agree with it not passing inspection but if the only reason it won't pass is I built it myself and not some schmucks on an assembly line then I don't agree with it.
Someone out there in the ether is compiling a list of repairable consumer product companies, preferably scored. Where is this list? My past experience Sears had manuals and parts, I had good luck with Goodman HVAC, and Yamaha/ Honda motorcycle shops.
You mentioned the margin available selling laptops. A friend is a rep for probably the most respected Japanese electronics company, and the industry pays rebates and incentives to stores. So the margin might only be 12% but they would get maybe 20% in "rebates"
The underlying problem is that this sort of plantation business model has become the default mode for many companies, especially technology ones. They want lower risk and more predictable income. If you just make something and sell it, your relationship with the customer is over unless there's a problem under warranty which costs you money. Your product might also flop costing you your investment. So they make it unrepairable to kind of keep you on the repair plantation so tere is a continuous stream of income from their users for the life of the product. It is extremely obvious from the company's point of view and I don't know if we can ever get this particular genie back in the bottle.
Yeah, but these companies don't seem to understand that they can still have most of that revenue while not taking a piss on their customers, all they have to do is offer parts, they can even do things the Apple way where they sell parts at an unreasonably high markup, but most don't even offer to do that... However, by not doing so, they're actually losing money on people who they annoy and either refuse to buy anything else or will go out of their way to find another way to fix it themselves, it's a really strange mindset I'll never understand where companies want all the money they can extract from a customer or they would rather take nothing at all, instead of compromise and settle on smaller less profitable sales such as parts/manuals. It's partly for that reason, I simply don't want to buy stuff new or "professionally" made anymore, even if I could afford it.
I think, eventually, competition and regulatory pressure will increase the ease of repairs. Once the market for EVs has matured, businesses may end up using repairability or customizability as a competitive advantage. Another thing to keep in mind is that patents can only last so long. A company can't own a technology forever.
@@vgamesx1 one of the things that I've been kind of surprised about over the years is the degree to which a business, particularly a large one, will prefer predictability over risk-taking. They will pass up on obvious opportunities simply because the possibility of a loss exists even if it's relatively low. In essence they won't trade a Bird in hand for two in the bush. As far as regulatory pressure goes well we all probably have a similar opinion of lobbyists so I'll leave that there but even if everyone involved is of the best intentions what is the role of regulation in this particular instance? Certainly if I own something then I should be able to modify it. But what about in the case of apple and their pie in the sky subscription plans?
@@M167A1 "In essence they won't trade a Bird in hand for two in the bush." I suppose I kinda get that, although I'd argue this sort of thing is different, metaphorically more like there's a bird stuck in a bush and they're just too afraid of letting loose the one in hand to bother picking up the second bird or something along those lines. As for Apple's subscription plan, well, I'd assume most people know what you're getting into and would understand that you would not own something that you're renting / leasing, so yeah anyone is free to debate if you should be allowed to modify stuff you don't actually own but at the end of the day it was your personal choice to buy into the idea of renting a product and whatever consequences come with that.
You can but it's a long road. Basically you need to instill a culture of independent mindset, quality, and social responsibility. The older "Dad culture".
I used to have this issue with my Mercedes. The closest dealership is 3 hours away in either direction so they authorized Pep Boys as a repair center. Needless to say, I bought my own set of specialized tools and figured it out on an older model.
This is under a different federal law. If you cannot use the product sold to you as intended, you can get a refund from the manufacturer. I am sure you will have to threaten a lawsuit or hire a lawyer but, negative press on UA-cam will always help. That being said, I had a Zero and the brakes were standard motorcycle brakes. Any shop worth being a customer at should be willing to work on the brakes.
Thanks for this. I didn't know Zero was so restrictive. Was thinking to buy one but will stick with Honda if I do buy one. Love BMW motorbikes but hate the dealers. Brakes on my RT failed (massive safety issue) and dealer quoted me 2000 to fix. A quarter of what I paid for the bike.
I'm in a similar situation as the author of your letter--I purchased a 2017 Zero FXS. Advertised range of 50-90 miles at the time, i get 37-45 max. 3k miles on it. Zero replaced both battery management boards under warranty late last year, at a dealer 150 miles away. Now, 4 months later, one battery has laid down and my range is cut down to a worthless 15-20 miles (harder draw on the one battery). I had same issue with ftont brake--always unsafely spongey. Im a small engine/bike mecahnic; ultimately i removed the ABS pump and brake is as it should be, now. I work on hybrid vehicles for the DoD, i enlisted help of two EE's at work (im an ME by degree), took a laptop and researching Zero log in just to get to battery logs (since their bluetooth tech doesnt work correctly). We did assemble a dirtbike, atv, and side by side, all electric, prior. Zero wont stand behind product once out of warranty and ill end up rewiring for a chinese BMS and controller. Sad. Tried to buy made in USA. You hit on key point: building a reliable electric vehicle should be 1000 times easier than ICE and we're f*cking it up!
So I had a bunch of spokes beak on my 2022 zero fx, seemed like a simple fix until I tried to find someone to re lace it for me. So I decided to do it myself....took me days to find any kind of up-to-date information on the parts I needed. Then find who sells them. Then days longer to confirm that it's the 2022 model because all they have listed is 2018 and earlier. Then I start talking to someone who can fabricate it for me. Turned a few hour job into about a month of headaches.
8:06 I purchased a couple of Ford Ranger Electrics (1998 and 2000) that I'm currently restoring. It's amazing to me how much literature, documentation, and technical manuals Ford published to support those vehicles. By contrast, some EV makers today haven't released nearly as much information for their products despite selling thousands of vehicles for years.
Take pictures of receipts/boxes with your phone and just upload the photo somewhere it will stay, like a google drive, or just a random thumb drive. I do that with all my receipts for expensive stuff and just keep the photos in one place, and it saved me a lot of money over the years.
10:00 And its not a part of being a modern efficient Ev buyer either. Yay my EV gets over 100 MPGe and i throw it away every 3 years for a new one! i mind as well be daily driving a 10 wheeler dump truck with how much garbage im creating! Repairs? Not throwing stuff away? Fixing broken things? I cant wait for bionic limbs so i can just snap my legs off and buy new ones and not repair my own like ive been doing for so long now!
I buy stuff and toss the box a few months later. Just collapse it down once you see it works so it takes up much less space. However, it can be useful to keep the box in order to store stuff if you do not plan on using it regularly. Box is already the right size and it is pretty easy to find vs tossing stuff in a random amazon shipping box.
Have come face to face with this problem with circuit City and Best buy in the past. If you didn't buy the product with them you were SOL when it came to repairs. This is an issue that has been around a while now.
Being an ex-cycle and motorcycle mechanic, I would have been tempted to say to the customer "Hey, what's the warrantee like? As if it's out, then, listen, if you're having problems with the constant spongey-ness of the front brake, how about I look for an upgrade for a reasonable price and just junk that crap, then, you'd have good, dependable braking?"... 😏😏 Lol. As, chances are, they would have sourced some disk/caliper and lever setup from a known cycle/motorcycle parts company, and, maybe, to keep costs down, Zero went with pattern parts and not genuine. So sourcing a genuine part could have solved it? 🤔 Wherever there is a problem, there is usually, a good way around it... Lol 😎🇬🇧
I agree with you on all of the above. One thought I had was why not try to tie repair to waste reduction. It an item can be fixed it of nonrecoverable parts would be less likely to end up in the landfill.
I have 2 Zero motorcycles, and the service manuals. The brakes take about 5 minutes to bleed by anyone who's bled brakes before without needing any manuals. Seems nuts to me someone wouldn't just take two Phillips head screws out of the brake master cylinder and loosen and tighten an 8mm hex bleeder while pumping the lever at the right times.
Maybe you could have a section on your website of all the companies that have these requirements for stores so we if we did buy something from them and it needed to be repaired ; we would know to not bother looking for "authorised" repair centres, instead of the closest repair shop, it ain't that much but it's something
I almost bought one of these motorcycles, but changed my mind after reading reviews about service issues. The dealer being way-way too far away, and not able to repair myself.
Spot on.. I've been dying to build another ebike.. The first one was sick but a bit rough.. But I have so much more skill to put to it now.. Gotta get it done.
I don't drive electric motorcycles, although I used to drive ICE ones, and I completely agree with your comments and concerns. I am definitely on the frugal side and I like to use a product until it is worn out. For instance, I don't like it when I buy a nice laptop and a few years down the road I am unable to purchase something as simple as an OEM replacement battery, and my only option is a cheap replacement one that is sold on eBay. Most of my neighbors have purchased electric lawn care equipment which is relatively expensive in comparison to their gas counterparts and I'm pretty sure that they will end up in the trash as soon as the batteries need to be replaced. In the meantime, I will stick with my 12 year old Chinese made items that are perhaps out of fashion, but are working perfectly fine, until a more attractive replacement option is made available.
At least you can still buy the parts for ThinkPads yourself, and they have manuals for replacing everything. So we don't really need an "authorized" repair shop. I would avoid such a branding anyway, as it means it will be a scam. I would prefer an un-authorized repair shop :)
Did you purchase Davinci with a credit card ? Check the date and time of the credit card transaction, the credit card transaction printout should be enough to prove your purchase. At least in Europe it is.
Louis I want to thank you so much for staying with the right to repair movement. I’ve built and modified a lot of Ebikes and Pev’s. I don’t think we should just call out companies for restricting the right to repair, but there is a company that I purchase bikes from and they go out of the way to make parts available and help you DIY repair or have a local bike shop put in the parts both in warranty or out of warranty. I don’t think they make the best Ebikes in the world but they also don’t make the worst. I don’t want to pump up any companies, but I have to say my experience with Ecotric Ebikes has been 100% positive as far as their assisting consumers in the right to repair both in and out of warranty. Do they use the absolute best parts? No! Do they help you get your bike repaired in or out of warranty even if it requires DIY? Yes! Are you going to get immediate service with them? No! You have to wait 24 to 48 hours for them to respond via email and they ask many times for pictures or video of the problem. But in the end they will either send you the part or if you’re in warranty tell you to go to the bike shop and have the bike shop put in the part. Thank you again have a great day
BMW motorcycles are much the same way. You can’t get service manuals for them and there are states that don’t have a single dealer. I believe that Montana has only one dealership and it is a huge state. Imagine having a problem on the east end of the state and being 500 miles away from the dealer. My local Honda motorcycle dealership has a sign saying that they won’t work on anything over 15 years old. My 2007 is still a nice bike. Where do I go now if I can’t work on it myself?
I don't think the reseller/dealer model necessarily introduces a conflict of interest into a repair/service business - in areas where there is a cultural expectation of repairability like vehicles, an argument that you're better off buying a new one isn't going to fly when you spend several thousand dollars and have a loan payment every month for the foreseeable future. However, it should obviously not be the only business model available to people either.
That is wild that you can't register your e-bike. CA DMV has a process in which you can register your bike as a non-highway vehicle. You would have to add stuff like mirrors, lights, indicators, and safety stuff.
The funny part is that all electric vehicles are basically like Legos. These companies also source all the components from the same suppliers, slap some led lights on them and their logos, mark up 500% and call it IP. And they use funky non standard electrical connectors and screw heads just to make repair a headache.
I like electric cars cause they're more efficient than gas. However, as for motorcycles, gas ones are like 40 mpg(at the low end) for a little cruiser from yamaha. Now electric vehicles are interesting because, unlike gas, they get better mileage in the city than highway because of regen. If we get a zero SR/S which is their upper scale sport bike, it has 416 MPGe for city and 206 MPGe for the highway. The zero bike is 20K as the yamaha is about 5to10k cheaper. I don't see the need for electric motorcycle, which is even more of a luxury, as the gas is already pretty efficient and cheaper
I'm all for electric motorcycles but currently energy density and range anxiety are bigger issues with bikes than for a car. I currently live in SF and on the weekends will go around the Bay Area. The most south i usually go is San Jose, about 40-45 miles away. The SR/S without the extended range option just about covers this distance to and from, leaving me little flexibility in terms of my itinerary. I can always plug it in while i'm having lunch or dinner, but I would need to have the top of the line model that can use up to lvl 3 charging stations, which can get the range topped off in less than an hour. It all sounds great until you realize you have to have bought all of the options to enable this, and then you would also need to be stopping at a location where the charger you need is. Until we can get more infrastructure up, or manufacturers can come up with a swappable battery standard, or a hybrid permanent/swappable sub-battery setup where I can just hop from station to station and get another 25 miles or whatever out of a smaller swappable battery, its going to be hard to convince people with 60 mpg 300cc bikes or 45mpg 1000cc bikes to switch over. I stay on my FZ-10 with a 4.5 gallon tank when i refuel. Between not having to even take off my gloves because I tap my phone to pay, and the fuel tank size, I am in and out in 2 minutes. Being green and efficient is great, but if i have to be stuck out somewhere to wait for my bike to charge, its going to be a bad time. Some manufacturers are looking in to a standardized swappable battery for scooters in Asia, but that market is HUGE, so i'm not holding my breath here in the US.
@@VitalVampyr Depends on the owner I suppose. Personally I prefer not to wake up the entire street when I fire up the bike in the morning. Though even with that mentality a silent engine does worry me about how invisible motorcycles already are in cities.
@@VitalVampyr there are the ICE ones that are obnoxiously loud, then there are ones that aren't much louder than the average car, which you may not notice because they blend in with regular traffic. These are the commuter riders that generally don't mod their bikes. These are also the same people that would consider an electric motorcycle because they ride to get from A to B and don't mind the lack of an engine note. The noise is important to some riders but it isn't what necessarily stops them from even considering an electric motorcycle. As I mentioned above range is an issue with a lot of people. You can have a lightweight bike that has a small tank that you can fuel up quickly and is fun, or you can have a heavier bike that has better range and comfort. Not a lot of riders will be down with a bike that is way heavier than the ICE counterpart just to get the same range, and then have to wait to top off. The primary issue for riders that are already ok with not having a loud bike is the range. For around the same price as a range extended SR/S you can get a BMW F 1250 GS, one of the best all around motorcycles you can buy. 7.9 gallon tank and avg 42mpg, that's 330 miles per tank. For zipping around locally electric motorcycles are fantastic, unfortunaly in the US a lot of people cover a lot of miles on their commute and the idea that the range is cutting it so close that if you forget to plug it in at night you'll have to bum a ride to work is just not very enticing.
Here in the UK, you can build your own vehicles (kit cars etc) and have an "IVA" (Individual Vehicle Approval) issued by the local office of the UK government agency called the DVSA. This inspection checks to see if the vehicle is roadworthy, and once a vehicle is inspected and approved, it's given a licence plate and it is then fully road legal. You can have trucks and cars inspected, motorcycles inspected, trailers inspected, and even quad bikes inspected. A little old lady I know had a mobility scooter inspected because it was too fast to be classed as a class 3 mobility scooter (limit 8mph) so it was registered as a road legal quad. Number plate etc - on a mobility scooter. She wasn't allowed on motorways ("highways") but otherwise it was fully road legal. So if I build an ebike that can go faster than the 25mph legal limit, I can have it inspected and then register it as an electric moped/motorbike. It's crazy to me that the US doesn't have a similar system in place.
They are too busy getting excited about not burning oil next to them, as long as the oil is encapsulated in plastic trinkets - everything is fine, even if you throw that trinket away after every use.
Most people don't see the value of repair because they don't do it themselves. I try to explain this to my environmentalist friends and they barely get it.
Those special interest groups seem way more concerned about what products have oil in them than what nickel mining does to the environment. Not to mention en masse lithium battery disposal.
They are. They usually show up to all of the right to repair legislative hearings that nobody else does. I don't understand this question. Some of them showing up to these hearings are on this UA-cam channel
In fairness to the tree huggers, from their point of view it is an issue of lesser importance. Some of them certainly care about it, but in their eyes the priority is weaning ourselves from carbon-based fuels. Ideally this would be done with fully recyclable and repairable options but a non-repairable but still electric motorcycle would be seen as a net positive. There's also no monolithic environmental movement. Some of them are going to be very much in favor of repair while others think that all the peasants should just get on the bus and forget about your personal vehicle.
Even IF you can get your bike to a dealer, their business model is to REPLACE rather than repair. My Zero needed a new motor encoder (just a small, $80 chip, easily accessible without taking the bike apart) but the process of calibrating that encoder is proprietary and instructions aren't available to non-Zero techs. The only solution was to replace the entire motor, which I couldn't even buy from Zero. I had to get an aftermarket refurbished one!
I saw these when they came out. I thought I really wanted one. Just the idea of the quieter motor sounded nice for riding around (have to be extra careful since people can't hear you as well)
I think a reason why some companies are reluctant to provide the parts and manuals is because they don't want consumers to be aware just how much they are marking up the product.
2:45 ... in my country it's called a Conflict of Interest and someone usually goes to jail. Well... he bought a new bike and can't register it, it's under warranty so box it up or rent a platform and get it delivered and bill the manufacturer for it.
Companys requiring you to sell their product in order to service it is entirely the point. They dont want you touching their product honestly. They give you the option of being an "authorized distributor/sell" just so that you can refuse and they keep the high ground of being a company "willing to work with you". Worst case scenario you will end up selling their products at their benefit. Its just like worker pandemic. They want the option of saying they're hiring just so they can push the responsibility of having no workers onto the workers themselves, not their scummy pay and/or practices. Until companies pop up that care more about delivering a product with options(being able to repair it yourself), the only solution we have is legislation.
My 2 cents, keep doing what you are doing. Your correct about electric transport... I commute in a 96 accord, live next to an auto zone and any point and time if she give me problems I can walk over there get the part that day and fix it without a computer. I get about 33 miles per gallon, electric would save a ton of money if repair was practical or diy friendly.
Ok this is my area and I am conflicted. To be clear this is very much the same with most motorcycle brands when it come to warrenty or service work. Yes some allow service work but not warranty from what I have seen. Some small brands even lock you to the location of the dealer you bought it from. As for the distence to the dealer...charge it on the way? For those extra miles its what 30 mins on a charger? (though I totally understand the frustration) As for the brake issue this has nothing to do with Zero from the sounds of it, more like the shop just did not like electrics. The reson I say this is it sounds like the brakes just needed bleeding propperly (no parts needed) and at most a new seal that are not unique to Zero's brakes to my understanding they are not made by them. Giving these bikes are new and many have no idea how to work on them I can see how the "have a go" people can causre bad optics if they short something set the bike on fire and everyone blames Zero. So I understand it, HOWEVER! When you are fighting an uphill battle do not put obsicles in your own way!
I am currently studying mechanical design engineering, and I have a strength of materials instructor that seriously believes in planned obsolescence as a means for driving profit. It makes me sick, because planned obsolescence is, from a design perspective, simply meant to be used as a means of calculating the expected life cycle of a design for warranty purposes, but he has the gall to suggest that it should also be used to deliberately make a design as short-lived as an average customer will tolerate in order to increase the repurchase rate without a hint of irony. The levels of cynicism and detachment from the end user run deep, and I can only hope that the rest of the new generation of designers like myself see this depraved bullshit for what it is.
Non-repairabilty is an unwanted side-effect of the legal liability incurred when the owner of a 'repaired' used vehicle can't extract enough compensation from the 'repairer' to cover the damage. Without total control over repairs these situations leave them exposed to potential damages and definitely faced with considerable legal expenses; a lovely recipe for 'legal' extortion via out-of-court settlements :(
Another semitech company, based out of Santa Cruz County, with authoritarian liberal ideals. Zer Motorcycle is headquartered about 20 minutes from Future Motion. One is in Scotts Valley, the on the west side of Santa Cruz in an old gum factory.
As one of the few Aussies to own a Volt, I'm all for letting us service and repair these vehicles, I have been servicing and maintaining this vehicle for around 9yrs now, and I can say, its no more difficult to work on than any other modern ICE vehicle, bikes in my opinion are even easier, I new Zero would be like this, you just need to look at the over inflated price of them.
It's funny because an electric bicycle isn't all too hard to service yourself but nobody seems to want to allow us to do the work on other electric vehicles
In my state, anything with a motor or engine can be registered if you built it as an assemble titled vehicle or experimental vehicle. Also they can be driven anywhere that their motor can match the speed limits.
My advice is, take a photo of any receipt for a thing that you aren't comfortable re-buying if needed. A lot of the time a photo of the receipt is good enough.
a true hoarder never throws a box away. Also never ever peel labels nor the plastic protective film off anything - lesson learned, do better next time ;-)
What we need is open source hardware. The 3D printing world is driven by open source hardware, and it has been one of the most innovative industries of the last decade. The result is that 3D printers are cheap, mostly made of standardized parts, and can easily be serviced, or even built from scratch, by hobbyists. We need open source EVs, open source phones, open source power tools, open source kitchen appliances. The first manufacturer who goes open source will make ton loads of money from it, like Prusa has done in the 3D printing community.
If manufacturers really want to go green and recycle. I have an idea... when these companies have a new repair shop that wants to become an official repair center why don't these companies send a repair location x amount of broken devices. Get them to request the replacement parts, fix the devices. This way the repair center experiences the full experience of getting replacement parts. They can send the devices back and the manufacturer can assess the stores ability and sell them as refurbished. Moving forward maybe have agreements with independent repairers to repair x devices Per month and send them back rather than pay stupid costs to be part of these official repair schemes. 1. Manufacturers end up with working devices to sell. 2. They confirm the repair centers are competent. 3. Stores are doing what they do best... repair devices with their time. 4. Moving forward if manufactures have extra devices needing fixing outsource to stores adding additional revenue for repair shops when they are quiet building good relationships and I guarantee repair shops would recommend your company Moving forward as its easier to repair. Good to work with etc. Word of mouth is powerful.
I'm not sure if you know, or can even do anything, but this 13 minute had four advertisements. One at the beginning, the second one was ten to fifteen seconds into the video. Exact same one, and then another two at the middle and third quarter. I know you need ad revenue, but that was a bit much.
Use odysee or lbry, ad free! Find me there. UA-cam "intelligently places ad breaks at ideal spots in the video." I have to go in and edit it later when it does stupid shit like put 4 ads in a 10 minute video. I usually set this to upload in the morning, and then it's published sometime in the afternoon because that's how long it takes Comcast to get my video to UA-cam so by then I'm already out and about
Best part is you can't edit mid roll ads placement from the UA-cam studio Android app so I have to wait to get back home to fix it... Mobile apps are so often missing basic functionality to make them usable but I keep hearing people profess that we're moving away from the desktop computer model. Years later, it still puts a bunch of ads into a 10 minute video, and it still does not allow you to edit the placement of them from the mobile app while on the go. You have to use the web browser, set it to desktop site, and browse around with a magnifying glass to actually edit the placement of them on android
Find me on odysee or lbry if you want an ad free experience. It's free! UA-cam won't change and fix this shit unless people use something else. I have 20,000 subscribers there and 1.7 million here. Make it happen!
@@rossmanngroup Should think to link your LBRY and Odysee channel in your video description so more people are aware. A lot of people just don't know about those sites and many that do have a certain... perception... about sites like those.
@@TheTundraTerror perception?
I never got any adds...
@@rossmanngroup Really hoping Aptera bucks this trend. They are shipping by the end of the year and have very publicly said manuals and parts would be a key differentiator. Tesla is the model everyone is currently emulating and their approach sucks for consumers.
PS: UA-cam almost certainly would have a problem with promoting alternative services. Like oldschool TV the AD revenue is what supports the platform. Personally I watch about 3 hours of youtube per day in the background so the expense of premium is definitely worth the time saved. Large internet platforms are essentially a natural monopoly once established because it is massively expensive to get people to switch and takes losing money for 10+ years; even google couldn't displace facebook.
So many, if not all companies that market their products as "green" love to adopt the disposable product model without a hint of irony.
That's because the watermelon people think repairing something means holding onto obsolete technology, the assumption is that we are so goddamn efficient at designing things - and later AI at least will be - that by the time a product reaches the end of its designed lifespan a new version or a completely new paradigm for the field has been achieved and the concept of repairing serves no purpose but clutching to the past you're glorifying with rose-tinted glasses
Had an argument with an apple ideologue about this. "But they claim they recycle!" Apple, known for their planned obsolescence, claims to be a green company.
Green is a marketing strategy. These corporations may say they are green minded but their actions say otherwise
The people starting these companies see a market opportunity and a strategy that helps generate the most money out of their business. Sadly it seems to be rare for "green" companies to actually be created by and operated with the environment in mind, as their only goal probably is to generate money.
Corporate capitalism at its best.
A huge part of the motorbike community is that you work on your bike. Change parts, repair it, etc.
That zero is not providing the tools is a huge mistake they’re making.
You can buy parts for zero. AF1Racing sells pretty much everything minus battery packs. I've done a lot of work on my own zero.
More or less. The motorcycle is a horse. What am I going to do, not personally take care of my horse?
@channelofstuff what are you talking about? Motorcycle maintinance is less labor, the parts are generally cheaper, and its easier to do.
@channelofstuff How exactly did you come to that conclusion? I haven't worked on many bikes, but I turn wrenches on light and heavy trucks for a living, and those things cost a small fortune to maintain once they start to age. I have a hard time believing tiny, light duty (comparatively) parts that have generally easy access could cost more to service.
@@Kill3rT0fuuu during the time of this story being told (2016) Zero would not sell you parts, and would barely sell authorized dealers parts... even then when they did sell parts to authorized dealers often the wrong parts were sent and it was generally impossible to get anything done. Source: First hand owner of Zero DSR during that same time period and doing work on the bike myself. Also note that to this day currently there is no way to service the motor, batteries, motor controller, or main bike board without connecting to the proprietary Zero software tool and hardware kit that Zero refuses to sell and keeps tight control over - I offered a defunct dealership to buy their data cables after their owner said to hell with Zero; the outcome was that in some contract fine print it would expose the shop to liability if they sold the cables to me versus having to ship these cables they purchased back to Zero at their cost and with no compensation. It's worth noting that Zero Motorcycles is married to the dealership model now for better or (as is much more often the case) for worse. Much worse. Direct sales and service is no longer a viable possibility for Zero Motorcycles it's just far too late and far gone to make a change.
Interesting how all these electric vehicle companies seem to be trying to establish a norm of non-repairability across the board from the very dawn of this industry. The gas car industry is trying to go that way, but mechanics and auto parts stores are so engrained in society from the good old days of when parts and manuals were readily sold and it was EXPECTED that people could buy replacement parts and repair their own shit, or start businesses doing it, that they are having a tough time doing it. We should look at that and make sure people know what they're trying to take away. I know you've mentioned that before.
The gas car industry is not just trying to go that way. The most modern gas cars are also moving towards less and less third party repair and not even third party service. Some modern BMWs can only get an oil change at the dealership.
The reason its so commom with electric cars is because they are brand new platforms with whatever cutting edge features the manufacturer puts in there. As soon as a gas car transfers to a new platform it will suffer a similar fate.
I want consumer protection laws to prevent this.
I think it's less specifically electric vehicle and more so a wider tech industry mindset and since tech thinks it's all encompassing it's basically getting into everything.
This is why i love normal acoustic bikes, they're still extremely repairable and modular, to the point that you can basically carry replacement parts for all but 3 components in a single backpack.
@@themonkeyhand I studied computer engineering for a couple years because I fully bought into this whole tech in everything is the future idea. It's an absolute cancer. Tech may be our future, but that doesn't mean it's a good future. A future full of tech is not going to be an environmentally friendly future and it's not going to be a consumer friendly future. Modern cars are a perfect example of that. Cars are quickly turning into primarily tech products that have the added functionality of transporting you, just like smartphones. They're a tech product first and a phone second, costing us more per year than just a phone and being horrible for the environment when they're thrown away en masse year by year as these companies pump out new model after new model.
they dont want us to repair electric cars for bullshit safety and security nonsense they want us to keep buying new cars every 2 or 5 years just like smart phones
I may be in the market for an electric motorcycle.
Zero is off the list for me.
Energica shreds Zero all day long. They charge faster, go further, and are faster(not to mention way sexier in my opinion, being made by designers from all the italian superbike companies)
Excellent choice, amigo. Let the trash be trash, and become a zero in the dirt of the history books.
@@xaero5150 but are they repairable?
Electric motorcycles make no environmental sense
@@xaero5150 That's good to know. I was afraid I had no real choice for electric motorcycles. I'll have a look at them. Thanks!
Zero lost me when they were planning to have people pay to unlock features that are already on the product. Like heated grips you have to pay to unlock the usage of even though the hardware is already on the bike.
BMW has done that for years, as does tesla
@@bradhaines3142 And in the video game front, Capcom also did this while having paid DLC already included on disc.
@@bradhaines3142 I’m to poor for experience with either one of those 😂😂
@@MetallicBlade thats basically all DLC now, not just capcom
@@Ibian666 all day one "DLC" at least
I don’t see how Tesla and Deere having excessive delays in scheduling service doesn’t by default make the case for right to repair. That One Wheel and Zero don’t have a authorized repair facility in a reasonable distance also makes the argument for us.
Hey Louis, hoping you'll see this. I work at a repair store in the UK and you've been a great inspiration over the last 5 years!
On the subject of the video I also own a couple of gas motorcycles, and I've been very excited about the emerging electric versions. In my experience main brand motorcycle manufacturers (Honda/Suzuki/Kawasaki etc) already provide excellent aftercare for replacement parts / service manuals to the consumer.
My view is technology manufacturers just do not want the competition. It's the Apple mentality of keeping everything locked to the company so by the time you have bought into it you have no choice but to go back. They know 80% of the components in their devices are standardized and the choice of manufacturer is an illusion. The only real difference is some products are built to a higher quality and might last a few years longer.
Again this is solely based on my own experience but every manufacturer is susceptible to faults, design flaws, defects, QA issues. That is just the reality of mass produces products. What matters most to me is the after-care once that product is sold. This is where very few succeed and so many fail.
Fair criticism, I'm glad you brought it up as I had been considering a Zero bike.
Do your research. The info and parts are readily available.
I've seen everybody complain about this. It's the same here in Romania as well. Zero motorcycles are idiots when it comes to repairing their motorcycles.
Just that? No issue about dodgy handling or an insane purchase price for the performance and range?
There needs to be an alternative with the end user in mind.
Why would they know anything about motorcycles they buy from a factory in China?
@@sana-cm7oc It's called piracy. All it will take is for one conscientious user to take the time to get the manual scanned and uploaded to a "safe" site, like something with a .io domain.
"There's your sign..." DON'T BUY ONE!!! Same solution now as it was in the 1950's...Say "Bye Bye" to those ZERO'S!!!
When I was a TV repairman (retired now), at first, the big retailers had their own repair services. This began to change, as it wasn't profitable for them, so eventually most of the authorized repair shops were independently owned and operated. Of course, almost nobody repairs TV's these days, as it's cheaper to replace an old TV with one with better picture, more features, etc.
Louis, this has been going on since you were 3 years old if my calculations are correct. In the early 90's I worked with Corian countertops manufactured by DuPont, to get their repair components and materials you needed to commit use 25k per year in these materials (a good bit in the early 90's) or become a dealer. Thanks for the content and greetings from the NJ Bayshore.
Louis, I've been fixing crap for people for the last four decades. I'll take on pretty much anything, electronic or engine driven. A big chunk of that time as a dealer level master service tech, so I've seen the dealer side of things, and the independent side as well. If someone brings me -anything- with a spongy brake, it's a no brainer to flush and bleed it out. No manufacturer support required, as long as the cap of the reservoir is labelled adequately to identify the type of fluid needed, and if not, I have ways of identifying what it had in it before. I can't wrap my head around the mindset of a shop turning a customer away when they're clearly in a bind and incapable to fixing it themselves. I love to void warranties. I was elated to find complete wiring diagrams in a pocket inside my washing machine when it freaked out. I'm old and it's getting harder to figure things out, much less remember how things work and have to figure it out repeatedly.... If I can't fix it, I don't want to own it. I'd rather just build my own from scratch. I'm going to look in to your bike project later. Thanks for standing up for humanity.
When we thought about electric cars 20 years ago we never thought about the connectivity and software side of what 20 years from then would be like and how that would factor into things like repairability i.e. disconnecting the battery on an electric skateboard makes it useless.
And I feel like that's the issue. They're cramming so much electronics and software into what SHOULD be a very simple drivetrain to intentionally make it impossible to fix them. On top of the fact they refuse to supply anyone with parts or diagrams to actually repair the damn things. They're making EV's as disposable as the batteries inside them. Replacing the battery will total out most EV's I bet once the time comes for them to be replaced, and I doubt a lot of EV's will even have battery pack's available when the time comes to replace them. It's stupid.
@@kasuraga they won't even be worth repairing even if the batteries were relatively affordable. The rest of the maintenance makes it just as disposable.
@@TheGuruStud I was tellin a coworker a while back that I doubt you'll see any 20 year old tesla's on the road cause EV battery packs aren't standardized and you won't be able to fix any of the electronics if they fail by that time. It's sad. They've turned cars into disposable ewaste just like cell phones.
@@kasuraga If there will be a DIY community to maintain them, you will see them like you see cars from '70s. Batteries themselves are usually using standard cells so you can make modules yourself. Other electronics can be reverse engineered to emulate hardware parts that might not be available like the BMS, just like EV conversions usually need to do. Worst case, you will need to replace most if not all electronics with third party solutions to have the car work with newer battery tech or motors, but it is doable.
@@kasuraga Part of the problem is government safety regulation. If you work in the Automotive industry, safety and liability is a huge concern for auto companies since if there is a mistake, it will be very costly. In every car ICE or EV, you need your electronics to basically never fail or to do so in a safely manner. Also these electronics must also be secure so people can't get into your car under any means or if they do, they shouldn't be able to drive away.
All of this requires a lot of RnD, software and hardware to do and it applies to any car on the road, not just EVs.
Motorcycles are traditionally more DIY when it comes to maintenance and repair so they are burning their base. It’s important since bikes are not relied on as much as cars so people justify their purchase by saving money on the maintenance. Thankfully, Kawasaki plans to go all-electric very soon and I don’t see them changing regarding the availability of parts, service manuals, tools, etc.
On Kawasaki, they outright refuse to sell service manuals in Europe. So I pirated it. Fuck them. Just proves to me that I don't need to ever buy a new bike.
@@Lolwutfordawin Hmm… I bought the Clymer for my Ninja but the manual I found online was a European version. I imagine this has more to do with local distributors and EU regulations since they happily sell them most everywhere else.
I just got a manual for my Kawasaki from Partzilla. But weird that Kawasaki doesn't sell you a manual out right if you want one, but will tell you the manual publication number.
@@ErAcEr100 I actually sent them an email, they explicitly told me it's reserved exclusively for Kawasaki authorized service centers. At least they were kind enough to send me the wiring diagram so I could actually hook up my auxiliary lights properly!
I dont want an electric bike.... i like my combustion engine... they better not go all electric.. a lot of people arent gonna like that
Nice to know that Zero are a arse to get spares/manuals for as I was considering buying one, but hearing about how customer unfriendly Zero are I think I’ll be looking elsewhere.
The guy you have the email from is pretty lucky having a dealer so close, In the UK we have ONE dealer covering the whole of the country, which would be a 323 miles 6 hour trip and that's if there is no major road works.
I'm not aware of any EV motorcycle company that's different. There is just too much innovation and wild-west growth going on.
@@rob21 I'm trying to start an electric motorcycle company with right to repair right on the front page. Every bike I sell comes with a user service manual and all replacement parts are available for purchase. I may not have a dealer network, but I'm not stopping anyone from repairing or doing service themselves or taking it to their local bike shop.
@@Hunterlegoking Well I look forward to it. Hopefully you can scale where that dream comes true.
There are almost 20 Zero dealerships in the UK and we have right to repair laws here...Just go the zero website and look at the dealer map, there everywhere.
@@Cookie-yl8uq I did look at the dealer map and it only showed the one in Norfolk, but still If I've bought a bike I own it, It is not for the manufacturer to put limits on the performance or limit the availability of spares/manuals. If they want to be as anal about it as OneWheel, I'll buy from another company who isn't.
I'm an owner of a Niu (electric) moped and am looking at buying an electric motorcycle once I get my motorcycle license. Now I know to not buy a Zero, sadly. But it's better to know before buying one... Thanks Louis!
@@Blox117 You mean an electric one like a monowheel? I don't think I will... xD
@@Blox117 unicycles are crap, get a pogo stick.
As someone who rides and would like to get an electric bike eventually, looks like Zero is not an option anymore. They don't have the popularity in the motorcycle industry to try and play strongarm like this. Looks like I'm sticking to the sound of an inline 4 for now!
As an automotive engineer, it baffles me we're having these issues. An internal combustion engine is so, but so much more complex than an electric motor. It's a true nightmare, the amount of parts, clearances, etc...
But electromotors are _"new technology"_ (lol) and _"new technology is inherently highly complex and dangerous!"_ 😨
...in the mind of the average, non-technical person and that's why all these new EV manufacturers are trying and why they _might_ actually succeed. 😢
@@LRM12o8 nevermind that the electric motor was invented at about the same time as combustion engines.....
@@HaartieeTRUE exactly! I actually said the same in another thread. It's so ridiculous...
From an engineering standpoint, I see a real conundrum with passenger vehicles.
Yes, in theory, electrically-driven vehicles can indeed be simpler. Well, just take a current sample, I don't care what make it is...and have a closer look.
What will you find? A massive network of controllers: powertrain, chassis electrical, and my pet peeve, "infotainment". In a conventional vehicle, these systems seen to get along reasonably well. They speak at different data rates.
On an EV, the complexity has reached a whole new level. I see "ghost" faults, most notably databus based issues, and intangibles. Customers bring their vehicle in after experiencing myriad strange warnings, stalls, failures to "start".
The list is impressive.
Answer is iterative improvements through motorsports. ICE motorcycles has been through hell and back in demanding races such as Suzuka 8 hour endurance race, or Dakar rally. Decades of constant refinement and improvements have been made in terms of performance and reliability.
On the other hand EV startups just slap together battery motors and controllers and call it a bike. Poor range, poor reliability? Don't worry the green army will lap it up. MotoE which runs full size Energetica EGO bikes can barely match the pace of 250cc Moto3 bikes, while running much shorter distance.
I just built my ebike. I bought a bafang mid drive kit from a guy here who was getting rid of it and I learned so much while installing it, that I am very confident I can fix most parts on it. Thank you for being an inspiration Louis.
I can’t say the brand because of NDAs, but I had a 2015 electric motorcycle that ended up very similar! Dealer dropped them because my bike was in the shop for months waiting for parts.
Another dealership a year later opened up at the edge of my range and the guy wanted to sell me a new motorcycle instead of fix it. He ended up wiping the logs instead of troubleshooting it (logs aren’t readable without specialized software from manufacture) and updated the firmware.
3 years and $25,000 in legal fees and costs of being without a vehicle for a year total at 3 dealerships, I got a tiny settlement and NDA. Just wanted it over with.
I’m afraid there’s zero chance I can tell you the brand though.
Did you try to contact your state's consumer protection agency? They are supposed to help consumers resolve issues,I would have refused an NDA and instead go to them for assistance. At one time a company ignored my problem for a defective item until I filed a report against them with the state consumers protection agency. In the future do not sign a NDA or release. Instead let every protection agency know about this problem if it gets large enough they have the power to sue these companies.
@@900Yugo I did, my state sent my complaint to the company and I get zero movement on it. Maybe two or three replies, and my state said basically, "well, we tried". Filed complaints with every agency and state I could. Then it sat in my garage as I forked out lawyer money for it over a year or two. Turns out I gave them too long to repair it and went past the lemon law period, weakening my case. I'm a sucker for the EV movement.
Ironically, since they were the only electric motorcycle around, I gave them another chance. Had 4 bikes total, only 1 worked as expected. Wife tried to learn on one and it started shutting down/rebooting while riding. Same run around, firmware update, no root cause, everything looks great. We sold it for parts because we couldn't handle the stress of lawyering up again. Two NDAs, total crap company, and I can't even disparage them or tell my story without dancing around their name.
@@ZeroFun Wow. Worse than my case with a pair of shoes I had problems with. After reporting to the state they offered me a free pair of shoes free of charge. No need to sign anything,just had to pay delivery costs. Of course a motorcycle is an investment. I couldn't afford to even buy a motorcycle let along ride one.
Too bad you gave us zero information on what company this was. How will we ever zero in on what it's name is?
@@numberq1134 Zero Motorcycle. Forces consumers to sign NDA's. That should be illegal. That's like Tesla forcing people to sign NDAs simply because their car catches on fire while charging. Then Tesla offers a settlement but one must sign a NDA. I would have refused and let everyone know,including the TV stations.
I’m into tech but also a motorcyclist, so this video overlaps my two main interests. I love the emerging electric motorcycle market, and I hadn’t even thought about repairability yet. Most guys do basic wrenching on their own motorcycles and most bikes use off the shelf stuff you can get on the internet. The lack of ability to get parts and fix them makes it infinitely worse to deal with with than a normal bike
Yea, its weird how the manual to my Yamaha Dragstar 1100 from 1999 shows how to remove your front fork to renovate it, but nowadays it's pretty much the opposite. I don't know about motorcycles today but the fork part is one of those parts I rather not do on my own.
From the average Joe here. I'm a Production Engineer with hands on CNC machinist skills. I know C++ programming and understand IC controllers, and circuits beyond the hobbyist. Probably not at all in your league as far as computer repair. Here is my point. These companies loose a ton of customers like me. I will not even entertain purchasing a product I can't support myself or take to someone like you who is NOT trying to sell me a new product. The items I own I take a sense of pride in. These companies literally strip that whole component of ownership away when they treat us like infants and strip away our freedom of true ownership. And as you often point out, these companies narrative that they do this because they care and want to keep us safe is literally insulting. Yes, there are some that require that level of support. That's OK. But to force that story on all of us is insulting.
When the mechanic said that they couldn't bleed the brakes because the bike was electric. That was a cop-out. They just didn't want to do work on a vehicle that they have a negative bias against. Kind of like getting an import car fixed in the 70's. Good luck. Nobody wanted to touch them. The "Not Made Here" mentality.
Thanks for this warning about Zero Motorcycles Louis. I really appreciate the heads-up on this brand. I'd been circling around the idea of adding a Zero to my bike collection, but I'm certainly cured of the idea now. There is NO WAY, that I'll buy a wannabe bike that I can't service myself. I'd venture to say most bikers are of the same mindset. I got rid of my Volt for the same reason, I couldn't get a GM manual for it. There is a reason they call them stealers.
Cheers!
Do your research. The manuals, parts lists and parts are readily available.
Recently I tried repairing my Dyson vacuums and a cordless Echo leaf blower. Each had a few low voltage cells. I made sure the replacement cells were equal quality, charged/ discharged to equal the voltage the cells in the pack were at. Nothing. Looks like the BMSs lock down if you attempt to replace a bad cell. I have a lot of experience with rechargeable lithium batteries. Have been using ( and abusing lol) them with high performance RC aircraft. I know they need very specific conditions to operate. Go outside those conditions and they aren’t happy. Anyway, it’s amazing that the BMSs are designed the way they are. Safety is the last thing on these guys minds.
@5:48 You can definitely register a custom-built motorcycle. They will need to be checked by your local DMV to make sure it meets their standards for safety and emissions but it is totally possible.
Thankfully the Zero community documents their repairs and upgrades quite thoroughly
had two zero's. a fx and a fxs. loved the riding experience, accelerated as hard as my old r6, would still own one if it were not for the issue you raised. my fxs died one day, cryptic error code. took it to the dealership. they sat on it for 4 months, finally concluding that i needed new batteries. that was going to cost $6k. however, unknown to them i had a second bike so i did the old switcheroo with the batteries. fx and fxs are practically identical. made no difference. so i suspected it wasn't the batteries. spent five minutes looking over the bike and found that one of the throttle wires was frayed. ordered a grip throttle assembly with wiring and installed it. bingo. problem solved. never felt good about the bikes after that so i sold them. in summary, cryptic, proprietary error codes combined with useless dealership maintenance killed the ownership experience. today i'm happy with e-bikes but have my eye open for any company that produces an electric motorcycle but with more a utilitarian, less proprietary, fix it yourself philosophy.
in case someone's legal dept. wants to come after me, have at it. i have archived all the communications with zero and the dealership as well as the receipts for the replacement parts.
Hopefully if there is ever a class action lawsuit you can provide them those records and sign on to it or something. I feel like these shady practices don't have a leg to stand on legally. Of course all it seems to take is the purchase of little political good will and they are getting away with it.
Hi Louis. You don't know how right you are in regards to the Zero Motorcycle company. I also got a 2016 DSR and have put 87Kmi on it through LA traffic.That said, I do not suffer from unreachable service centers. But, only 1 of the 4 service centers that I've been to has had acceptable service. 2 of the 4 service centers I dealt with are criminally incompetent and even Zero's customer service lied for them. My bike has had the battery replaced under warranty twice and the third battery is on its last legs. My friend had a 2015 SR and his problems with the dealer and Zero directly were so bad he actually got them to BUY HIS BIKE BACK!!! to get him to stay quiet. But, to be a little fair, big Li-Ion batteries scare the jeebers out of me. I'm an Electrical/Computer Engineer and a certified aircraft mechanic. I've been around, lets say, high energy equipment a long time and have seen too many safety videos for Li-Ion batteries and Arc-Flash danger. BUT THAT IS WHY IS NECESSARY TO HAVE THE SERVICE INFORMATION SO THE WARNINGS CAN BE FOLLOWED!!!!!. Sorry for the all-caps. This kinda triggered me, my bike is going to die soon and I can't fix it myself and they already tried to get me to trade "up". :( Which doesn't make any sense to me. I guess I just have to save up to have someone replace the battery or wait till a reputable manufacturer comes out with something better. I used to repair and re-sell vintage (or at least retro) motorcycles, but gas bikes need so much maintenance and TLC. I need a battery powered motorcycle to commute around here. Thanks for making these videos.
I've long considered getting a Zero motorcycle since I love riding and it would make sense for my daily commute. This video certainly convinces me otherwise. A big part of owning a bike for many motorcyclists is also the garage time working on the bike. Having a simple maintenance schedule was attractive, but the idea of not being able to order parts or work on it in my own garage for something as simple as bleeding the brake lines and properly returning things to torque specs is a hard pass for me.
Zero motorcycle? 25K!😳 And then no service availability. You know, This is why I like working on my own Gasoline Car or motorcycle. I'd call the state attorney Generals office. Authorized dealerships? With all the vehicles on the road today. What a total disaster. I totally agree with you Louis!
Many (most) states will let you register something you built. That's how kit cars work. It's also how Local Motors works.
Some states are much more strict than others in terms of requirements. It's usually easier than trying to restore a salvage title in terms of registration.
I think you are spot on in your commentary. We all appreciate you trying to help consumers and small businesses. It really is insane that you cannot fix your own stuff.
You are spot on. As a appliance repair tech years ago Sears tried to repair all appliances. Failed as supporting the multitude of parts and special features especially in electronics
For a lot of people, especially in the US, motorcycles are a luxury item these days. They are more like a secondary vehicle unless you live in a more urban area where you can actually use it to commute. It would be interesting to see how other manufacturers compare with repair-ability. I wouldn't be surprised if the Harley Livewire treats it the same. I've seen some other electric motorcycles I have seen are crate kits they ship directly to you and don't even have dealerships but they are also less expensive, probably not the same level of quality and not made in america.
I’m not sure about other states, but New Mexico will issue you a VIN for a self build vehicle, including a motorcycle. You have to document all parts to ensure it’s not from a chop shop. I don’t know about reselling them, but you can definitely build just about anything you want and register it.
I daily a Zero, and I agree with most of the statements in this video. I also work in the automotive industry, and part of the problem also seems that Zero just hasn't figured out the support side that the 100 year old companies have well established.
Building out processes for recalls, repair manuals, and replacement parts has a relatively low short-term ROI but is significant for brand loyalty. Personally, I hope my next motorcycle is electric, but from a much more established brand.
Motorcycles also have a massive DIY repair expectation around them, I have copies of shop manuals for all my ICE bikes and have repaired significant engine failures in my garage while sipping beers. An argument against publishing a shop manual (and inevitably allowing any average Joe repairing his EV at home) is that with the high voltage present, EVs are much more dangerous during the repair than a comparable ICE. By building taller fences on who can work on it, they limit some liability from injuries caused during repairs. I imagine they aren't insurable or have a similar legal team to the larger Japanese or German brands to accept that level of liability.
As an automotive technician I somewhat agree with you, the batteries have an inherent danger to them. However one compared to all the other dangerous motorcycle aspects it's really just a drop in the bucket 🤣 Where I slightly disagree is with the liability side, locking up technology just leads to people blindly breaking into it. Either way the only thing that's going to protect a company is a good release of liability and other legal aspects.
Hey Louis Rossmann! Thank you for spearheading the Right to repair battle! I am about to buy a 2 wheeled electric vehicle (scooter or moped) from a company called NIU! I asked the Canadian distributor if they allow parts to be sold to the public and surprisingly the answer was yes! I looked online and brake pads etc were available! So far I haven't heard any right to repair issues with NIU but wonder if you or your viewers have any knowledge on this issue! Ride ride ride!
I'm an owner of a Niu moped and have been very pleased with it (will be selling it soon, but due to other reasons). From what I've found, *all* parts are available to purchase and to my knowledge there are no software blocks. You can buy everything, small to large - from screws, fairings, the throttle/twistgrip, sensors, to batteries, motors, etc. And if you want it to go faster, then you can get a third party ECU for example. I haven't looked as much into documentation for servicing them, but at least the blueprints showing their construction are easily accessible.
Such a timely video, Louis! Been watching your channel for years. Really appreciate these recent videos on reparability. I've been considering a Zero, as I love the idea of a low-maintenance motorcycle. Their treatment of customers (in terms of repairs) is a non-starter for me. I don't want to be beholden to a dealer network and their inflated repair prices to keep my bike. I've owned two Honda ICE bikes years back and while I did use the dealer sometimes, it was great being able to buy parts and do service work myself.
I think Zero has convinced me to buy something else. Thanks Zero!
100% fair, and there is no way companies like Apple haven't weighed the profit incentive of reparability vs new sales, yet somehow they continue to cater to the same people clamoring for Environmental protection...Have they ever issued any documentation on their efforts to recycle? Somehow they have a free pass on this
Never heard of Apple being an environmentalist's preferred PC, that is really only prevalent in design fields (and those people are easily amused consumers).
Apple did by saying they recycle e-wastes/frames and use recycled materials on new devices.
but recycling and remanufacturing takes more resources than repairing a broken device 90% of time, especially on high end consumer devices.
I'm fortunate to have a friend as a Zero mechanic who helps me troubleshoot my bike whenever something goes wrong. You make excellent points. I'm surprised people haven't just dove in and figured it out and made their own videos. I did find one on how to replace the charger. My bike has had fairly little use (only 4k miles), although I did ship it to Hawaii, and the rainy side of the island at that, so it does get some extreme weather they probably don't test drive them on. But yeah, since I brought it here I've had to replace the charger, the throttle, and also had to lube up the ignition. Recently having some other connectivity problems with the throttle connection (pinched wire?), which is weird. Symptoms are that it is not able to regain connection when I shut the motorcycle off, as if it just can't make the leap but once it has the connection it stays alive and rides until I take the key out again. Seems to be solved just by taking off the headlamp and moving the wires around. Probably due to where I put the wire when I replaced the throttle. Who knows. They really outta design these things to never break, with the wiring going inside the bike frame so that it is totally untouchable. That would be hard to repair, but if they make it right just once, with a really good wire and some really good insulation, and no play when then bike moves around... then theoretically the wiring should never break, ever. Doesn't seem that hard of a goal to attain, in my opinion. But maybe I have expectations of excellence. It's true. I do.
Fair analysis. Manufacturers want to move into a subscription model, where the user is unable to service or customize hardware while the meter is running in perpetuity. Hardware which is rented and subject to vague TOS 🚩
Yet another example of "you will own nothing and you will be happy"
@@redpheonix1000 quit being anti-semitic
Meh, half of the fun of motorcycles is workin' on 'em.
I won't be buying one of these anytime soon, probably ever.
And that was the point he was making. It's f'ed up. The incentive to buy electric is out the window.
@@Blox117
Please tell me more.
This is why I laugh when Tesla fans say the reason why car companies don't adopt EVs is because they don't want them. That's nuts. This new market of EV vehicles has the consumer trained to treat them like appliances, not things to be personally owned and maintained. So the idea of disposing of them after a manufacturer set period, never personally maintaining them, and having a direct relationship where the manufacturer takes car of everything for a handy profit is just mouth wateringly attractive. We're not even going to get into the massive margins EVs present over ICE.
Thank you Louis. I was thinking about a Zero for the past few years but I'm glad I know this about them before I made the plunge.
in some states, you can register a home made vehicle and I personally want that to be the norm. I do agree that a health and safety test is mandatory as well as emissions and what not because a normal car is subject to those standards and if the car doesn't meet that then 100% agree with it not passing inspection but if the only reason it won't pass is I built it myself and not some schmucks on an assembly line then I don't agree with it.
Someone out there in the ether is compiling a list of repairable consumer product companies, preferably scored.
Where is this list?
My past experience Sears had manuals and parts, I had good luck with Goodman HVAC, and Yamaha/ Honda motorcycle shops.
You mentioned the margin available selling laptops. A friend is a rep for probably the most respected Japanese electronics company, and the industry pays rebates and incentives to stores. So the margin might only be 12% but they would get maybe 20% in "rebates"
The underlying problem is that this sort of plantation business model has become the default mode for many companies, especially technology ones.
They want lower risk and more predictable income. If you just make something and sell it, your relationship with the customer is over unless there's a problem under warranty which costs you money. Your product might also flop costing you your investment.
So they make it unrepairable to kind of keep you on the repair plantation so tere is a continuous stream of income from their users for the life of the product.
It is extremely obvious from the company's point of view and I don't know if we can ever get this particular genie back in the bottle.
Yeah, but these companies don't seem to understand that they can still have most of that revenue while not taking a piss on their customers, all they have to do is offer parts, they can even do things the Apple way where they sell parts at an unreasonably high markup, but most don't even offer to do that...
However, by not doing so, they're actually losing money on people who they annoy and either refuse to buy anything else or will go out of their way to find another way to fix it themselves, it's a really strange mindset I'll never understand where companies want all the money they can extract from a customer or they would rather take nothing at all, instead of compromise and settle on smaller less profitable sales such as parts/manuals.
It's partly for that reason, I simply don't want to buy stuff new or "professionally" made anymore, even if I could afford it.
I think, eventually, competition and regulatory pressure will increase the ease of repairs. Once the market for EVs has matured, businesses may end up using repairability or customizability as a competitive advantage.
Another thing to keep in mind is that patents can only last so long. A company can't own a technology forever.
@@vgamesx1 one of the things that I've been kind of surprised about over the years is the degree to which a business, particularly a large one, will prefer predictability over risk-taking. They will pass up on obvious opportunities simply because the possibility of a loss exists even if it's relatively low.
In essence they won't trade a Bird in hand for two in the bush.
As far as regulatory pressure goes well we all probably have a similar opinion of lobbyists so I'll leave that there but even if everyone involved is of the best intentions what is the role of regulation in this particular instance? Certainly if I own something then I should be able to modify it. But what about in the case of apple and their pie in the sky subscription plans?
@@M167A1 "In essence they won't trade a Bird in hand for two in the bush."
I suppose I kinda get that, although I'd argue this sort of thing is different, metaphorically more like there's a bird stuck in a bush and they're just too afraid of letting loose the one in hand to bother picking up the second bird or something along those lines.
As for Apple's subscription plan, well, I'd assume most people know what you're getting into and would understand that you would not own something that you're renting / leasing, so yeah anyone is free to debate if you should be allowed to modify stuff you don't actually own but at the end of the day it was your personal choice to buy into the idea of renting a product and whatever consequences come with that.
You can but it's a long road. Basically you need to instill a culture of independent mindset, quality, and social responsibility. The older "Dad culture".
I used to have this issue with my Mercedes. The closest dealership is 3 hours away in either direction so they authorized Pep Boys as a repair center. Needless to say, I bought my own set of specialized tools and figured it out on an older model.
This is under a different federal law. If you cannot use the product sold to you as intended, you can get a refund from the manufacturer. I am sure you will have to threaten a lawsuit or hire a lawyer but, negative press on UA-cam will always help. That being said, I had a Zero and the brakes were standard motorcycle brakes. Any shop worth being a customer at should be willing to work on the brakes.
Thanks for this. I didn't know Zero was so restrictive. Was thinking to buy one but will stick with Honda if I do buy one. Love BMW motorbikes but hate the dealers. Brakes on my RT failed (massive safety issue) and dealer quoted me 2000 to fix. A quarter of what I paid for the bike.
I'm in a similar situation as the author of your letter--I purchased a 2017 Zero FXS. Advertised range of 50-90 miles at the time, i get 37-45 max. 3k miles on it. Zero replaced both battery management boards under warranty late last year, at a dealer 150 miles away. Now, 4 months later, one battery has laid down and my range is cut down to a worthless 15-20 miles (harder draw on the one battery).
I had same issue with ftont brake--always unsafely spongey. Im a small engine/bike mecahnic; ultimately i removed the ABS pump and brake is as it should be, now. I work on hybrid vehicles for the DoD, i enlisted help of two EE's at work (im an ME by degree), took a laptop and researching Zero log in just to get to battery logs (since their bluetooth tech doesnt work correctly). We did assemble a dirtbike, atv, and side by side, all electric, prior. Zero wont stand behind product once out of warranty and ill end up rewiring for a chinese BMS and controller. Sad. Tried to buy made in USA. You hit on key point: building a reliable electric vehicle should be 1000 times easier than ICE and we're f*cking it up!
So I had a bunch of spokes beak on my 2022 zero fx, seemed like a simple fix until I tried to find someone to re lace it for me. So I decided to do it myself....took me days to find any kind of up-to-date information on the parts I needed. Then find who sells them. Then days longer to confirm that it's the 2022 model because all they have listed is 2018 and earlier. Then I start talking to someone who can fabricate it for me. Turned a few hour job into about a month of headaches.
8:06 I purchased a couple of Ford Ranger Electrics (1998 and 2000) that I'm currently restoring. It's amazing to me how much literature, documentation, and technical manuals Ford published to support those vehicles. By contrast, some EV makers today haven't released nearly as much information for their products despite selling thousands of vehicles for years.
Take pictures of receipts/boxes with your phone and just upload the photo somewhere it will stay, like a google drive, or just a random thumb drive. I do that with all my receipts for expensive stuff and just keep the photos in one place, and it saved me a lot of money over the years.
10:00 And its not a part of being a modern efficient Ev buyer either. Yay my EV gets over 100 MPGe and i throw it away every 3 years for a new one! i mind as well be daily driving a 10 wheeler dump truck with how much garbage im creating! Repairs? Not throwing stuff away? Fixing broken things? I cant wait for bionic limbs so i can just snap my legs off and buy new ones and not repair my own like ive been doing for so long now!
I buy stuff and toss the box a few months later. Just collapse it down once you see it works so it takes up much less space. However, it can be useful to keep the box in order to store stuff if you do not plan on using it regularly. Box is already the right size and it is pretty easy to find vs tossing stuff in a random amazon shipping box.
Have come face to face with this problem with circuit City and Best buy in the past. If you didn't buy the product with them you were SOL when it came to repairs. This is an issue that has been around a while now.
Being an ex-cycle and motorcycle mechanic, I would have been tempted to say to the customer "Hey, what's the warrantee like? As if it's out, then, listen, if you're having problems with the constant spongey-ness of the front brake, how about I look for an upgrade for a reasonable price and just junk that crap, then, you'd have good, dependable braking?"... 😏😏 Lol.
As, chances are, they would have sourced some disk/caliper and lever setup from a known cycle/motorcycle parts company, and, maybe, to keep costs down, Zero went with pattern parts and not genuine. So sourcing a genuine part could have solved it? 🤔 Wherever there is a problem, there is usually, a good way around it... Lol 😎🇬🇧
I agree with you on all of the above. One thought I had was why not try to tie repair to waste reduction. It an item can be fixed it of nonrecoverable parts would be less likely to end up in the landfill.
I have 2 Zero motorcycles, and the service manuals. The brakes take about 5 minutes to bleed by anyone who's bled brakes before without needing any manuals. Seems nuts to me someone wouldn't just take two Phillips head screws out of the brake master cylinder and loosen and tighten an 8mm hex bleeder while pumping the lever at the right times.
Maybe you could have a section on your website of all the companies that have these requirements for stores so we if we did buy something from them and it needed to be repaired ; we would know to not bother looking for "authorised" repair centres, instead of the closest repair shop, it ain't that much but it's something
I almost bought one of these motorcycles, but changed my mind after reading reviews about service issues. The dealer being way-way too far away, and not able to repair myself.
Spot on.. I've been dying to build another ebike.. The first one was sick but a bit rough.. But I have so much more skill to put to it now.. Gotta get it done.
I don't drive electric motorcycles, although I used to drive ICE ones, and I completely agree with your comments and concerns. I am definitely on the frugal side and I like to use a product until it is worn out. For instance, I don't like it when I buy a nice laptop and a few years down the road I am unable to purchase something as simple as an OEM replacement battery, and my only option is a cheap replacement one that is sold on eBay. Most of my neighbors have purchased electric lawn care equipment which is relatively expensive in comparison to their gas counterparts and I'm pretty sure that they will end up in the trash as soon as the batteries need to be replaced. In the meantime, I will stick with my 12 year old Chinese made items that are perhaps out of fashion, but are working perfectly fine, until a more attractive replacement option is made available.
At least you can still buy the parts for ThinkPads yourself, and they have manuals for replacing everything. So we don't really need an "authorized" repair shop. I would avoid such a branding anyway, as it means it will be a scam. I would prefer an un-authorized repair shop :)
Did you purchase Davinci with a credit card ?
Check the date and time of the credit card transaction, the credit card transaction printout should be enough to prove your purchase. At least in Europe it is.
Louis I want to thank you so much for staying with the right to repair movement. I’ve built and modified a lot of Ebikes and Pev’s. I don’t think we should just call out companies for restricting the right to repair, but there is a company that I purchase bikes from and they go out of the way to make parts available and help you DIY repair or have a local bike shop put in the parts both in warranty or out of warranty. I don’t think they make the best Ebikes in the world but they also don’t make the worst. I don’t want to pump up any companies, but I have to say my experience with Ecotric Ebikes has been 100% positive as far as their assisting consumers in the right to repair both in and out of warranty. Do they use the absolute best parts? No! Do they help you get your bike repaired in or out of warranty even if it requires DIY? Yes! Are you going to get immediate service with them? No! You have to wait 24 to 48 hours for them to respond via email and they ask many times for pictures or video of the problem. But in the end they will either send you the part or if you’re in warranty tell you to go to the bike shop and have the bike shop put in the part. Thank you again have a great day
BMW motorcycles are much the same way. You can’t get service manuals for them and there are states that don’t have a single dealer. I believe that Montana has only one dealership and it is a huge state. Imagine having a problem on the east end of the state and being 500 miles away from the dealer. My local Honda motorcycle dealership has a sign saying that they won’t work on anything over 15 years old. My 2007 is still a nice bike. Where do I go now if I can’t work on it myself?
I don't think the reseller/dealer model necessarily introduces a conflict of interest into a repair/service business - in areas where there is a cultural expectation of repairability like vehicles, an argument that you're better off buying a new one isn't going to fly when you spend several thousand dollars and have a loan payment every month for the foreseeable future. However, it should obviously not be the only business model available to people either.
That is wild that you can't register your e-bike. CA DMV has a process in which you can register your bike as a non-highway vehicle. You would have to add stuff like mirrors, lights, indicators, and safety stuff.
People have even bought e-dirtbikes like Surron X and registered them for the street.
The funny part is that all electric vehicles are basically like Legos. These companies also source all the components from the same suppliers, slap some led lights on them and their logos, mark up 500% and call it IP. And they use funky non standard electrical connectors and screw heads just to make repair a headache.
I like electric cars cause they're more efficient than gas. However, as for motorcycles, gas ones are like 40 mpg(at the low end) for a little cruiser from yamaha. Now electric vehicles are interesting because, unlike gas, they get better mileage in the city than highway because of regen. If we get a zero SR/S which is their upper scale sport bike, it has 416 MPGe for city and 206 MPGe for the highway. The zero bike is 20K as the yamaha is about 5to10k cheaper. I don't see the need for electric motorcycle, which is even more of a luxury, as the gas is already pretty efficient and cheaper
I'm all for electric motorcycles but currently energy density and range anxiety are bigger issues with bikes than for a car. I currently live in SF and on the weekends will go around the Bay Area. The most south i usually go is San Jose, about 40-45 miles away. The SR/S without the extended range option just about covers this distance to and from, leaving me little flexibility in terms of my itinerary. I can always plug it in while i'm having lunch or dinner, but I would need to have the top of the line model that can use up to lvl 3 charging stations, which can get the range topped off in less than an hour.
It all sounds great until you realize you have to have bought all of the options to enable this, and then you would also need to be stopping at a location where the charger you need is. Until we can get more infrastructure up, or manufacturers can come up with a swappable battery standard, or a hybrid permanent/swappable sub-battery setup where I can just hop from station to station and get another 25 miles or whatever out of a smaller swappable battery, its going to be hard to convince people with 60 mpg 300cc bikes or 45mpg 1000cc bikes to switch over. I stay on my FZ-10 with a 4.5 gallon tank when i refuel. Between not having to even take off my gloves because I tap my phone to pay, and the fuel tank size, I am in and out in 2 minutes.
Being green and efficient is great, but if i have to be stuck out somewhere to wait for my bike to charge, its going to be a bad time. Some manufacturers are looking in to a standardized swappable battery for scooters in Asia, but that market is HUGE, so i'm not holding my breath here in the US.
No clutch, no maintenance, zoom zoom power without revving, quiet. I love my electric motorcycle. Built it for about 5k.
Well, if you care about not being a nuisance electrics are much quieter. I believe that's another point against it for most motorcycle owners though.
@@VitalVampyr Depends on the owner I suppose. Personally I prefer not to wake up the entire street when I fire up the bike in the morning. Though even with that mentality a silent engine does worry me about how invisible motorcycles already are in cities.
@@VitalVampyr there are the ICE ones that are obnoxiously loud, then there are ones that aren't much louder than the average car, which you may not notice because they blend in with regular traffic. These are the commuter riders that generally don't mod their bikes. These are also the same people that would consider an electric motorcycle because they ride to get from A to B and don't mind the lack of an engine note.
The noise is important to some riders but it isn't what necessarily stops them from even considering an electric motorcycle. As I mentioned above range is an issue with a lot of people. You can have a lightweight bike that has a small tank that you can fuel up quickly and is fun, or you can have a heavier bike that has better range and comfort. Not a lot of riders will be down with a bike that is way heavier than the ICE counterpart just to get the same range, and then have to wait to top off. The primary issue for riders that are already ok with not having a loud bike is the range. For around the same price as a range extended SR/S you can get a BMW F 1250 GS, one of the best all around motorcycles you can buy. 7.9 gallon tank and avg 42mpg, that's 330 miles per tank.
For zipping around locally electric motorcycles are fantastic, unfortunaly in the US a lot of people cover a lot of miles on their commute and the idea that the range is cutting it so close that if you forget to plug it in at night you'll have to bum a ride to work is just not very enticing.
As usual, your observations anc conclusions are spot on correct.
Here in the UK, you can build your own vehicles (kit cars etc) and have an "IVA" (Individual Vehicle Approval) issued by the local office of the UK government agency called the DVSA. This inspection checks to see if the vehicle is roadworthy, and once a vehicle is inspected and approved, it's given a licence plate and it is then fully road legal.
You can have trucks and cars inspected, motorcycles inspected, trailers inspected, and even quad bikes inspected. A little old lady I know had a mobility scooter inspected because it was too fast to be classed as a class 3 mobility scooter (limit 8mph) so it was registered as a road legal quad. Number plate etc - on a mobility scooter. She wasn't allowed on motorways ("highways") but otherwise it was fully road legal.
So if I build an ebike that can go faster than the 25mph legal limit, I can have it inspected and then register it as an electric moped/motorbike.
It's crazy to me that the US doesn't have a similar system in place.
Why aren't environmentalists a huge ally to the right to repair movement?
Where are they on this???
They are too busy getting excited about not burning oil next to them, as long as the oil is encapsulated in plastic trinkets - everything is fine, even if you throw that trinket away after every use.
Most people don't see the value of repair because they don't do it themselves. I try to explain this to my environmentalist friends and they barely get it.
Those special interest groups seem way more concerned about what products have oil in them than what nickel mining does to the environment. Not to mention en masse lithium battery disposal.
They are. They usually show up to all of the right to repair legislative hearings that nobody else does. I don't understand this question. Some of them showing up to these hearings are on this UA-cam channel
In fairness to the tree huggers, from their point of view it is an issue of lesser importance. Some of them certainly care about it, but in their eyes the priority is weaning ourselves from carbon-based fuels. Ideally this would be done with fully recyclable and repairable options but a non-repairable but still electric motorcycle would be seen as a net positive.
There's also no monolithic environmental movement. Some of them are going to be very much in favor of repair while others think that all the peasants should just get on the bus and forget about your personal vehicle.
Even IF you can get your bike to a dealer, their business model is to REPLACE rather than repair. My Zero needed a new motor encoder (just a small, $80 chip, easily accessible without taking the bike apart) but the process of calibrating that encoder is proprietary and instructions aren't available to non-Zero techs. The only solution was to replace the entire motor, which I couldn't even buy from Zero. I had to get an aftermarket refurbished one!
Encoders are not a part that should need calibrating in the first place.
@@JPEight agreed 100%. Hopefully the newer Zeros use a better system than this.
I saw these when they came out. I thought I really wanted one. Just the idea of the quieter motor sounded nice for riding around (have to be extra careful since people can't hear you as well)
I'll drive an electric doohicky when I live in an area run off a nuclear power grid. deal?
I think a reason why some companies are reluctant to provide the parts and manuals is because they don't want consumers to be aware just how much they are marking up the product.
2:45 ... in my country it's called a Conflict of Interest and someone usually goes to jail.
Well... he bought a new bike and can't register it, it's under warranty so box it up or rent a platform and get it delivered and bill the manufacturer for it.
Louis, if you ever make a company like you described you want for electric vehicles I'm investing all-in in you, no questions asked.
Companys requiring you to sell their product in order to service it is entirely the point. They dont want you touching their product honestly. They give you the option of being an "authorized distributor/sell" just so that you can refuse and they keep the high ground of being a company "willing to work with you". Worst case scenario you will end up selling their products at their benefit.
Its just like worker pandemic. They want the option of saying they're hiring just so they can push the responsibility of having no workers onto the workers themselves, not their scummy pay and/or practices.
Until companies pop up that care more about delivering a product with options(being able to repair it yourself), the only solution we have is legislation.
My 2 cents, keep doing what you are doing. Your correct about electric transport... I commute in a 96 accord, live next to an auto zone and any point and time if she give me problems I can walk over there get the part that day and fix it without a computer. I get about 33 miles per gallon, electric would save a ton of money if repair was practical or diy friendly.
Ok this is my area and I am conflicted. To be clear this is very much the same with most motorcycle brands when it come to warrenty or service work. Yes some allow service work but not warranty from what I have seen. Some small brands even lock you to the location of the dealer you bought it from. As for the distence to the dealer...charge it on the way? For those extra miles its what 30 mins on a charger? (though I totally understand the frustration) As for the brake issue this has nothing to do with Zero from the sounds of it, more like the shop just did not like electrics. The reson I say this is it sounds like the brakes just needed bleeding propperly (no parts needed) and at most a new seal that are not unique to Zero's brakes to my understanding they are not made by them. Giving these bikes are new and many have no idea how to work on them I can see how the "have a go" people can causre bad optics if they short something set the bike on fire and everyone blames Zero. So I understand it, HOWEVER! When you are fighting an uphill battle do not put obsicles in your own way!
I am currently studying mechanical design engineering, and I have a strength of materials instructor that seriously believes in planned obsolescence as a means for driving profit. It makes me sick, because planned obsolescence is, from a design perspective, simply meant to be used as a means of calculating the expected life cycle of a design for warranty purposes, but he has the gall to suggest that it should also be used to deliberately make a design as short-lived as an average customer will tolerate in order to increase the repurchase rate without a hint of irony. The levels of cynicism and detachment from the end user run deep, and I can only hope that the rest of the new generation of designers like myself see this depraved bullshit for what it is.
Non-repairabilty is an unwanted side-effect of the legal liability incurred when the owner of a 'repaired' used vehicle can't extract enough compensation from the 'repairer' to cover the damage. Without total control over repairs these situations leave them exposed to potential damages and definitely faced with considerable legal expenses; a lovely recipe for 'legal' extortion via out-of-court settlements :(
Louis Rossmann is a BEAST!!! Makes me wish I had something worth sending to him to fix...
Another semitech company, based out of Santa Cruz County, with authoritarian liberal ideals. Zer Motorcycle is headquartered about 20 minutes from Future Motion. One is in Scotts Valley, the on the west side of Santa Cruz in an old gum factory.
As one of the few Aussies to own a Volt, I'm all for letting us service and repair these vehicles, I have been servicing and maintaining this vehicle for around 9yrs now, and I can say, its no more difficult to work on than any other modern ICE vehicle, bikes in my opinion are even easier, I new Zero would be like this, you just need to look at the over inflated price of them.
It's funny because an electric bicycle isn't all too hard to service yourself but nobody seems to want to allow us to do the work on other electric vehicles
In my state, anything with a motor or engine can be registered if you built it as an assemble titled vehicle or experimental vehicle. Also they can be driven anywhere that their motor can match the speed limits.
Thank you for making this video. It means the world to me!
Sticking with my 20 year old Honda. Everyone and my mother could repair it.
@@Blox117 Hey you don't say that!
My advice is, take a photo of any receipt for a thing that you aren't comfortable re-buying if needed.
A lot of the time a photo of the receipt is good enough.
a true hoarder never throws a box away. Also never ever peel labels nor the plastic protective film off anything - lesson learned, do better next time ;-)
What we need is open source hardware. The 3D printing world is driven by open source hardware, and it has been one of the most innovative industries of the last decade. The result is that 3D printers are cheap, mostly made of standardized parts, and can easily be serviced, or even built from scratch, by hobbyists. We need open source EVs, open source phones, open source power tools, open source kitchen appliances.
The first manufacturer who goes open source will make ton loads of money from it, like Prusa has done in the 3D printing community.
If manufacturers really want to go green and recycle. I have an idea... when these companies have a new repair shop that wants to become an official repair center why don't these companies send a repair location x amount of broken devices. Get them to request the replacement parts, fix the devices. This way the repair center experiences the full experience of getting replacement parts. They can send the devices back and the manufacturer can assess the stores ability and sell them as refurbished. Moving forward maybe have agreements with independent repairers to repair x devices
Per month and send them back rather than pay stupid costs to be part of these official repair schemes. 1. Manufacturers end up with working devices to sell. 2. They confirm the repair centers are competent. 3. Stores are doing what they do best... repair devices with their time. 4. Moving forward if manufactures have extra devices needing fixing outsource to stores adding additional revenue for repair shops when they are quiet building good relationships and I guarantee repair shops would recommend your company Moving forward as its easier to repair. Good to work with etc. Word of mouth is powerful.
Just gotta say, his way of making an argument is extremely compelling.