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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2017
- Dave looks at several USB logic analysers from ZeroPlus
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www.zeroplus.com.tw
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Dave's old logic analyser design published in Electronics Australia magazine:
• EEVblog #747 - PC Base...
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The opensource Sigrok analysis suite has support for the ZEROPLUS Logic Cube. Might be worth touching on when you make the Logic Cube video.
You should totally do a thing where you probe the logic analyzer with itself, if for no other reason than the sheer absurdity of it.
I used a scope to probe itself before, it didn't end well.
That's the fancy version of checking battery voltage of a multimeter with itself. Apparently, that doesn't end well either.
Can you test it with a woman to confirm she's illogical?
Why? Asking for a friend.
DowskiVision MagicalOracle give it up, you're embarrassing yourself... Did a girl just reject you, or do you have some fear of vaginas? Either way, reaching out on a public forum isn't the best way to get help, I'd suggest a counsellor; if you find women scary, you can get a male one. Best of luck overcoming your phobia.
I've been using this software for years. It's much better than those christmas tree programs you get with other analyzers. It looks 10 year old but it does the job perfectly.
It's great, indeed!
Let's take a squizz at this puppy...
We're in like Flynn...
Spared no expense...
Not a whole lot in there...
That's about all she wrote.
money shot
Bob's your uncle
that's kinda how ya doin
couple of bodge wires
none of that new fangled rubbish
for those playin along at home
Half a bees dick
How could you miss the "Logic Analyzor" at 11:44 ?
Dave asserts that the software is "only for up to Windows 2007" and proceeds to comment on this meaning the software is from 2007. Actually the product spec says for Windows 7 (there was no Win 2007). Win 7 was released in 2009 and Win 8 came along in Fall 2012. Fair enough criticizing the software for lack of sophistication or broken or lacking features, but the date criticism is a bit off.
When I see "Logic analysers", I imagine a couple of Vulcans looking at things and saying "Logical" or "Illogical" in response to them................
One time I watched Techmoan use his Soundcard and Audacity as a logic analyzer for some old hardware or a tape. I don't think Techmoan ever realized he was using a logic analyzer but it worked and he was able to read data.
That's a good lesson there because if your projects are retro computers or something slow like that a 44kbits sample rate is good enough and most PCs can do it and it's not even expensive to get soundcards with higher sample rates.
I find it quite interesting that so many people that watch his videos don't know what a logic analyzer is or how it's used.
Not sure if you still have this unit (LAP-F1-64) but they did take the comments on the software and have updated the software. Not sure if its any better functionally but it does look a bit better visually, might be worth a follow up 2min review in a future video.
I have a ZeroPlus cube. Bought first year in college, before 'bus blaster' was a thing. It's really useful for debugging. The analysis software was expensive. Like $50 for each protocol. I've written a review and gotten 10 protocols for free. It's great they are all free now.
That's awesome, I can charge 32 iPhones at the same time.
Yeah, 32 iPhone12?
The software I downloaded for the Logic Analyzer that comes with the Arduino Starter Kit is very polished. I like it a lot. I also can't recommend the Arduino Starter Kit with Logic Analyzer enough. It is a bit spendy at first look, but the manual is superb and the parts are quality.
Really good to know that it comes with all those protocol analyzers
Thanks Dave. Am now thinking of one of these for protocol analysis. Just downloaded the software and to tried it out in demo mode. Most of your complaints are dealt with very easily. The File-Settings allows the font size and all colour settings to be changed. A right click alows trace colours ot be changed. You can also set it to snap to edges in File-Settings and the left and right arrow keys then move the cursor to the next edge. OK, very ‘old’ feel to it and not well implemented or fancy pants, but the inteface works OK and looks OK after a few tweaks :)
I see what you are saying about the software but even that is better than we had in school in the 1970's. Thanks for the tear down on this product line.
Totally agree on the GUI interface for the ZeroPlus Logic Analyser. This is the main reason why I replaced it for a Saleae
Dave, I think you inserted 20 or 30 records in their bug database! Your criticisms were spot on.
damn i always think what the manufacturer or guys ins software or in marketting will think about daves vides, hope they make it good
Outstanding soldering on that board!
About the mystery comparator: My bet is that it's a sneaky hack where they're dicking with the VCC voltage for the HC245 buffers to use them as comparators.
yeah just using a DAC to set the voltage threshold for the input buffers is cheap, easy way to do it.
Every logic analyzer application I've seen is either limited, quirky, buggy, or all three. I'd love to see an example/recommendation of a GOOD one. For now, I'm sticking with my $50 Open Logic Sniffer and the rough-but-usable Java app that works with it.
Thanks, Dave, for another great video, and I hope you feel better soon!
LogicStudio from Lecroy. That is the best one I have ever used. LogicStudio 16 is their hardware. It's under 1000 usd.
That software makes my skin crawl. It's like looking at an Open Source tool that either uses an outdated GUI toolkit, or was made by someone who doesn't know basic UI designs.
A $3000 piece of kit should not have software that looks like it was made by Amstrad in the 80s.
Outdated is not necessarily bad, and when it comes to software I've seen useless software with very nice GUI too. Anyways, GUI is almost always bloat.
5K euro + tax (~20%) = ~$7K
Yeah, I think I'll just stick to Saleae's software.
It's fine. I have used it for a few years now and I can't complain, really. For the price; especially after reflashing the ident chip, you can't complain (I am not advising any piracy here). There is an open source application that can read out the hardware. So someone could always make a new UI.
And its ugly as .... That is why I prefer Altium. OrCAD is just dragging so much crud from the past that is annoying. Beauty isn't important, but usability is. This is why Windows trumps over Linux, consistency. If only Linux adopts a guideline and a toolkit to adopt. Qt or GTK and that's it.
The new software interface is also available for the LAP-C series as well (it's called smart+ I think), not just the more expensive model. It looks like they are developing a new interface, whilst also still maintaining there "old" looking version.
Also, your font issue might be due to font scaling, not sure, you change how that works by right clicking on the shortcut and choosing a different scaling option. I don't have the same font problems on my system.
Nothing says quality like Serif fonts on a PCB.
For the product with Xilinx fpga , i feel like they could have used a bigger passive heatsink instead of using fans, or maybe power it from 12v or 18v-19v adapter and use a silent squirrel cage fan (12v or 24v) with maybe some stuff to direct air over heatsink
Would have been cool to see if it could run as fast as it claimed. I wonder what the signal integrity is like when running full-tilt
Is there something special about the plugins? Do they enable some kind of hardware decoder or is it just a key to unlock a software decoder that runs on the PC? The software sigrok does all of that for free.
Sir I've a doubt. Why the voltage across an electrolytic capacitor shows around 400 volts in an AC capacitive dropper rectifier circuit under no load, whereas in conventional transformer rectifier, the voltage remains at what the secondary voltage is?
Dave...please...hold the bloody thing still!
Slick hardware, but man that interface is rough. Simple as it is, Saleae nailed the pan and zoom.
do you have a 16gb ddr 3 so dimm module on hand? i wonder what happens if you just try to plug one in. easy modding?
I used the LogicCube in the past. Clunky as hell - indeed - but bloody useful and powerful.
Thanks for the video. Question, why can't you scrape that black spot off? The one that blocks the little chip.
LEGnewTube
The stuff is hard as heck, you run the risk of damaging the chip &&/|| PCB, the thing underneath could simply be bare silicon with bond wires attached to the PCB.
8:37 Well now I'm going to be waiting for the follow up where you probe your own clacker! Can I request that you smoke a light pipe while you're at it?
Terminal G of the plug in adaptor at 12:24 looks like it has a bad solder joint?
Come on Dave, you are right that they need UI people, but the small window complaint is just not warranted.
They, correctly, center the content on both of them, Data is centered on the small one, its centered on the big one.
(2:35) - In 2016 ? What? That was last year!
12:00 Is that gnd pin unsoldered, or did the solder just not flow through from the other side?
Gameboygenius Neither one of the connectors' GND pins seem to be soldered on the top side of the board, so I can only imagine the thermal mass of the plane kept it from flowing up.
Looks like there are no thermals on those pins so that's probably what happened.
18:30 I believe it is there to stop the PHOTONS from escaping! Not the electrons.
13:17 That, and the "Stack" connector, looks more like a micro-HDMI, rather...
At 48:02 - the hand thing seems to be in the lower right corner, right next to the face thing...
18:11 I never seen this many USB ports in one device! 😮
I'd like to suggest that instead of doing a tear down, Dave use that time to read the manual
Not a fan of the fumbling around and not reading the manual. Too many wrong conclusions due to not knowing the software well enough. It's like that KiCad video where I had 3 hours watching tutorials and knew 10x more than was revealed fumbling around wrongly. Classic case of thinking all software uses a standard way to do the same thing, like MS uses std buttons in most of it's stuff.
Unfortunately, there were many instances of that, one of them being the gripe about not being able to change the colors of the traces. You can change them, it is under the Settings section. The manual is not very long and all of the things that come to mind that were mentioned in the video were addressed in the manual. I was a little disappointed that Dave was not better prepared.
Dave is simply unable to look at a manual and be informed before making the video
It's like that time I read the manual before using the most complex software on my machine - Windows. Actually, now that I think about it, that manual doesn't exist and that event never took place. Nevermind, my apologies. Lucky for me MS put some thought into developing a streamlined, intuitive interface design paradigm. They even provide an API for ad hoc developers to misuse and gruesomely mutilate that paradigm, as we've seen here.
haveyouseengus you've never read the Windows manual? I still have the Windows 3.11 manual, and it's bigger than a modern doorstop fantasy...
It would be cool to to see you try the LAP-C 32200 with sigrok PulseView replacing Zeroplus's desktop software.
Thank You +++++ for this AWESOME suggestion, the supported devices is astronomical!!!! Three ZEROPLUS are supported. FANTASTIC site, thanks again sigrok.org/wiki/Supported_hardware
He, 09:53,.. had that sticker a metallic layer on the backside?
Do you have a sample of a program that dose all these things with a good UI that is user friendly?
Saleae makes nice software that does the job.
IEE1284 Centronics parallel printer to USB? Why? 9:41
update to and old design? something about the protocol maybe?
That's a USB 1.1/*2.0* B connector. Not a 1.1 . I wonder if 1.1 still exists ;-). I hope not though.
logic analyzers with analysing software rock...
I watched with tears in my eyes when I hooked up my bitscope to my esp8266 only to find out that it was just talking in a non-"standard" speed (76k8). I just pointed at it and said that should probably serial, and it said, it is, at 76k8, which is not a normal speed in posix systems, and that's where I understood my error.
12:00 Poor soldering? and 23:00 no mention of the weird and wonderful double-stacked chip in the middle of the frame?
For a moment, I thought the thumbnail is an Ethernet switch.
11:42 "But how does the Logic Analyzor know when to do the acquisition?"
"Didn't think of that. I'll just SCHLAP-A-Trigger on it."
i bet that preview window is wrong because it was designed lazily for a 4:3 display and doesnt calculate it based off your display resolution
Strange that all the dip switches are all set to the same 4 bits.
Taiwanese here. They make decent USB LA, easy to use also.
Hi, I love your amazing videos and their themes, thanks for the clearness. Have you seen this component (ZX Distance and Gesture Sensor ), it seems to be a combination of 2 IR leds and an IR recever like TSOP1836. Can you please help me to know how it works, I want to make one by my self.
Have you tried putting this milky looking scotch sticky tape onto chips to make the part numbers read better when they are laser "etched" into the surface?
sounds like you have the a cold Dave.
Meh. If somebody not afraid with old crappy Tek software, then Tek TLA715 with TLA7AA4 and few probes can beat these hands down for large channel LA work.
Thanks for vid and teardown though.
How would this sort of unit be tested?
the logic cube interface looks like an IDE port tbh
Dave are you recording those videos in year 2000?
Because modern desktop PC in 2017 can take 15GB/s (gigabytes) of data using one PCIE card, CPUs can compress (LZ4, not primitive RLE) at 1GB/s per core, have up to 16-32 cores and 50-60GB/s memory bandwidth - all that in ~$2000 PC. Throw in another $1000 and you get 1.4TB 4GB/s write speed SSD setup (2x 700GB P320h).
$3K for a PC that can easily take 64 1Gbit channels, decode, compress AND save to disc all in real time. All it needs is n custom IO card, $7K-$3K leaves us with $4K for the card and profit in exchange of being able to actually capture contiguously for >5 minutes.
That's what the Saleae analysers do. Frequently I'll have something fast like a 20 MHz SPI bus squirt out a ton of data very infrequently and I can capture it all over several seconds.
Yes, but Dave is under the impression its only viable at low speeds (20MHz salaea), but impossible for 1Gbit capture. Times have changed, computers are insanely fast.
rasz not everyone is a rich boy with shit tons of money to piss away on a computer that's not really faster than the one from last year
@James Mathis did you miss the part about this logic analyzer being $7K
and your last years PC has 4GB/s write speed SSD array? nice!
That GUI seems even more user unfriendly than using the Logic Analyzer in a scope. I guess anyone that tried a saleae logic pro once, will never go back.
Likely a case of just having to get used to it. Some of the best software I have ever used was absolute hell to learn to use quickly, but once you learnt it ya would never go back.
Ignoring the value of the higher end versions of these products, how does the most basic version (the $135? version, 16ch) compare in value to other basic products on the market? I get that the software is a bit icky, but do you still get the complete set of protocol decoders at that price? (PS Anyone know why there's so many childish sexist crap comments on this video, not noticed as many on previous videos. Like WTF?!)
You get all the protocols you will ever need. You can also illegally upgrade the cheapest model to a way higher feature set. The software is not as bad as Dave says. I have not had many issues with it and I am using it since 2014.
I laughed at all of your jokes,
my love you didn't need to coax
*rolling C major chords on Hammond B3*
Oh maggie I wish I'd never seen your face
Benedikt Müssig Thanks for that. (Not sure what the other post was about - perhaps lyric posts on UA-cam are the new number stations.)
BAHA!
AC/DC,
Aussie.
sexist.
it works on all levels
OY! OY! OY!
see ride out on the sunset, on your color TV screen
out for all that I can get, if you know what I mean.
Are you sure you have the correct fonts installed.
The awesome Arduino graphics i probably made by Pighixxx. It got his logotype on the front.
He recently run a successful Kickstarter "ABC: Basic connections"
www.kickstarter.com/projects/pighixxx/abc-basic-connections-the-essential-book-for-maker
READ the instrucions
Starting at 36:02 is where the quality part of the software review. Clunky? Sure. Features? Yup.
'"You're paying for the software."
*Some time later*
"The software is atrocious."
at 28:39 you say 2007 but it says 2017 !
Customer buys 2 logic Analysers... Logic Analyserception!
after seeing this software the crap shipped with my LWLA1034 doesn't look so bad anymore :)
Feeling under the weather? Noticed your voice was cracking a bit. :)
I have the man-flu, I'm near death.
Feel Better ..... Your, Tech. Fix It
I remember when people thought Taiwan gear was substandard. Not anymore!
Anyone use the LAP-C and the Beagle for USB2 decoding? Would the LAP-C be a bad choice?
USB2 runs at max 480 Mbits/sec, whereas it looks like LAP-C sample rate is 200MHz, so it would not successfully sample USB2.
Good catch. Looks like an accessory board is required which seems to be no more than the USB male and female connectors and a crystal for an external clock. The software is configured for USB1.1 to use the internal clock and for USB2 to use the external clock. Perhaps this means that a external clock could be used to increase the sampling rate for other protocols?
www.zeroplus.com.tw/logic-analyzer_en/image/guide/USB20-en.pdf
Looks like a powered USB Hub
1:46 Conclusion of this video: So ... they do black magic devices ...
13:29 I am sure they have lot of fans ... who else is buying this then
19:11 ... actually they skimped out of the fans ... hole still there and even the jumper headers ... too sad this company has now less fans (to drag on this joke)
26:40 if I put my back into it I might understand that one ... one day (but I am sure that day there will be no more arduinos anymore)
38:00 yeah, at first I thought you done that in post.
40:12 still all black magic .. I couldn't use that even if my life would depend on it.
xD Dave is ill in the old logic analyser video.
Soooooooo... The usb are the only intake for the fan? That's a poor design...
13:28 there are intakes ^^. its only 50 watts peak power consumption anyway. thats not a whole lot of heat.
No wonder the boy with the blue hair looks like Rick from Rick and Morty, a Sánchez was involved in creating this...
Thought at first it was a dumpster dive score
OMG that was the hottest unboxing I've ever seen.
Around min 30 you talk about not being able to resort the channel list. Surprisingly, writing sort code and addressing it to the correct memory points is not the easiest thing. I'm not the least bit confused by the lack of that functionality in this software. It's a pain to instantiate and highly time consuming.
well done david anton shanchez...hmmm sancheese...hmmm sanachez...ahh sanchez...lmao
That pronunciation was terrible... that was a dirty Sanchez.
Like so, so much Chinese gear, the hardware is all there to make something spectacular for the price, but the software is a total car crash. I do9n't know why this is so prevalent, I'd really love to know. They have the skills for great hardware engineering, but why is the software always so terrible, no matter what it is? Time and time again I see this, and I'm sure many will back me up on this.
Windows only? No thanks.
0:03 a series of logicanalazhezheh
I hate it when physical ports and connectors are used for electical/signal incompatible purposes. What if you stick a USB drive in there or some idiot tries to charge his phone on one of those ports. What if you take one of those probe dongles and stick them in a PC USB port? This is a very terrible idea. Imagine using a 230v plug for headphones, that'll end rather abruptly.
Get well soon, Dave - you sound a little under the weather!
lol imagine if that 32 usb port unit was actually a 32port usb hub just think what stuff u can plug into it
They've blobbed it
We're in like Flynn...
Not a huge amount there...
That's all she wrote.
And also "all the way with LBJ". Wow, a 1964 US presidential campaign slogan. Impressive.
Why so much haters ? Can someone explain ?
Universal connector for a non universal device. Alt+F4
I saw Dave's spit! Just North of the ceramic mounted clock chip, near R147. The clock chip is North East of the FPGA. Yes... I know. ua-cam.com/video/ttvgJqbCXRs/v-deo.html
usb connectors should be only used for usb
3K? to 6K dollar? shit man is there a cheaper one with same quality of it?
I've been happy with my Intronix LogicPort analyzer. $389 base price, which includes a test cable but not XKM grabbers. 34 channels, pretty good software, similar specs to the ZeroPlus 32128 for half the price. pctestinstruments.com is their website. The biggest downside is the limited sample memory.
EEVBlog forum thread with some good info: www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/intronix-logicport-compendium/
Software as the same issues as keysights best effort but a lot cheaper pain
Zeroplus fucking standard
Beginning of the video: "This will only be as good as the software is of course..."
(Then the software is absolute crap...)