SORRY FOR THE LATE RELEASE! This has been a crazy week and had to many things going on. I'm still a little green on chillers but if you know everything already then why are you watching me 😛
Approach temps, flow, discharge superheat, lift...... the most important things for any chiller to operate properly. I know you probably don't have access to the submittal data.....but if you can get it.....that will help tremendously in troubleshooting any chiller. I see brazed plates and shell and tube ( DX barrels ). On a brazed plate, you should have between 5°-10° of approach. On a DX barrel you should have between 3°-8° of approach. 2.4 GPM per ton on the evap and 3 GPM per ton on the condenser. Also it is uber important on any eev controlled system that the transducers and thermistors are reading correctly......they are very frequently out of calibration. There is too much to list here when it comes to chillers....but i have faith you are the man for the job.
good to see some American manufacturing! I worked at Shop Vac in upstate NY for one summer and do not miss it. 120~140*F between the massive injection molding machines with no A/C in the heat August heat. The machine were massive. 50 FT long with 500*F injection barrels and had 150HP eclectic motors for the hydros.
I sometimes stress out working (or fixing in a timely manner) on a $3,000 furnace to keep one person warm…. Meanwhile, you’re working on a massive 6 or 7 figure chiller that is the lifeline of a multi million dollar operation. Perspective, I guess!
A place like that though they have 480v 3 phase power, wonder why they're running that kind of chiller system built from cheap (relatively) scroll compressors? One of the medical device manufacturers near me, has a compressor room with 6 100hp Carrier screw compressors for their chillers, all R134A. Been very reliable (so far). Has a couple BAC cooling towers, and a 2 million gallon water storage tank. Seems kind of messy and hard to work on with all that refrigerant piping and awkward group of scroll compressors.
@@brnmcc01Very interesting to hear. I work quite a lot on chillers in Germany and with all that F-Gas Phase out going on at the moment most new chillers are switched to R290. We‘re mostly using reciprocating compressors from Bitzer or Bock (4-8 cylinders) and sometimes screws.
Nice detail about the water valve artificially raising the head pressure. I work on water cooled equipment as well, but instead of using TXV, they use an AXV. If suppect a low charge, I look at the low side pressure
A really awesome video Rick. It’s always cool to see something you have never seen before. Be interesting to see what those TXVs when you change them out. Thanks for the video Rick.
If that's an electronic flow switch and there's some air travelling in the water pipes then sometimes it can cause the glow switch to trip . That electrical compartment makes me feel at home with the Care pCo and the wire conduits and all 👍
perfect candidate for EEV’s on older chiller. Water cooled and a critical production facility. Will also reduce power consumption. We’ve got electricity supply companies paying for the retrofits as they can sell the power elsewhere. Also you can never trust labels on HP/LP controls!!!
That controller is infamous for losing contacts internally You had a closed flow switch that the control read open Just had the same issue with a Carel controller on a fluid cooler Wait until the factory guy calls u back and says the control is NO longer available. We had to buy one on EBay and send it to factory for programming Good luck
I work on those control panels a lot. You really got to get special tools ( looks like bent screwdriver) for those spring loaded contacts. Using small flat screwdriver is iffy, and actually damages terminal block. I’ve got Wera ones. You can also get Phoenix Contacts and Wieldmuller brand. You MUST crimp ferrules on those sensor wires, and with them - even if you pull them, and they are not coming out, it still doesn’t mean you get a good contact.
THIS is the stuff I wanted to get into when I joined the hvac field. I'm 5 years in and all my experience has been residential installation/tech. What advice would you give to someone trying to work on chillers? Im trying to educate myself more on the commercial side and I'm starting to realize all hvac is basically the same just different sizes lol
Install is a dead end to no where if you stay, it’s great to learn how to do it but I was going to get stuck in it for a year or two. So I quit and went to a different company that offered me a service position, I started doing p.m. work, which was boring, but I did it for almost 2 1/2 years before I got to run real service calls, now I knew how the equipment worked and it made me a much better service guy. I did residential for the first 5 to 10 years with some light commercial in between, then I worked for a company that did food service equipment, plus plumbing and HVAC, all good skills to have, but I kind of liked Refrigeration better, after eight years of being of service manager and feeling like I wasn’t learning anything new I quit that company and went to where I am now for the last 10 years. I thought I knew a lot when I came to this company, but I found out how little I knew. If you’ve noticed in my videos, I do about anything and everything, most companies don’t do that many different kinds of things and that’s the reason why I’ve stayed here. It’s not a perfect company, but they pay better than any place in my area and I’ve learned more than I could’ve learned anywhere else. So my advice would be constantly looking for ways to better yourself whether that be with education or possibly moving to another employer. I’m not saying be a job hopper on average. I stayed a minimum of 2 to 3 Years and at some point I stayed for eight years. Never stop learning, always try to be your best, never be satisfied with just average.
You would think that equipment that is so integral to the operation of their production process would be maintained better or have a full time in-house refrigeration tech.
@@chewielewie6564 you would laugh if you seen where this things located at. It’s out in the middle of nowhere. It’s over an hour and 15 minutes Highway speeds from our shop.
Having worked a long time in manufacturing you would *not* think they’d spend money to maintain equipment… this is all par for the course. In fact, I’ll bet they’ve had normal employees work on/maintain this equipment too.
It hard working on a piece of equipment, knowing if you shut it down, they lose production. You want to tear into it but have to wait for the time when they have a shutdown.
Driers are only good for 24 hours. Eliminate them completely afterwards. Just remove the suction cartridge and cut out the liquid line driers. The TXV has a cage to catch any crap from installation. It's a SEALED system! What do I know? Member RSES, CM,CMS Tx license TACLB-004153-C. Thankfully retired.
No, this $1k Txv is completely sweated in and does not have a removable screen, and on rack refrigeration we leave filter dryers in all the time to continue cleaning the system especially after idiots did the shit work that you just seen after not properly diagnosing why all four compressors have been replaced. Also just so you know RSES is nothing more than a membership. It doesn’t mean you know what you’re doing. Just like most other memberships but what do I know. Oh and by the way, I’m RSCS certified too whoopie. Humility goes a long way, you should know that by now if you put 40-50 years in. no one knows everything, especially when you don’t stay on one type of unit nonstop.
Drier-filter are not a problem in the system provided that there not plugged. If they become plugged they need to be replaced repeatedly until they don't become plugged anymore. If you open the system you should replace with a new drier-filter to remove the small amount of moisture that that procedure added to the system. Unfortunately POE oil is a solvent made of a process where organic acids are mixed with one or more alcohols, at an elevated temperature. In the process the water is constantly removed. If you reintroduce the smallest amount of water it will revert back to an acidic solvant. Drier-filters are the only way to remove the moisture from POE oil. Thy will also neutralize some acid. I prefer solid core drier-filters like Sporlan Catch-All or Danfoss, because solid core drier-filters have more media and seem to plug up when the media fills up. POE oil doesn't turn to a wax like mineral oil does, but you can still end up with wax in the system from the compressor windings being attacked by an acid or not being properly cooled by the refrigerant. On a scroll compressor discharge SH should be between 35 - 60 F. This will give you good indication of compressor operation. If the oil is washed out or your not supplying the compressor with enough refrigerant flow the discharge SH will be high. If the compressor is flooding it will be low, but will go high if the oil is washed out of the compressor by the refrigerant. VRF systems use compressor SH as part of their matrix in controlling the system. Compressor discharge temp - condenser saturated temperature = Discharge SH
It appeared in the site glass that there was no liquid but some foreign material. When you recover the refrigerant is there a way to flush the system free of this “junk”?
Mainly, just keep changing filter dryers. If you run flushed through that heat exchanger, it might get trapped in there and I highly doubt it’s gonna shove anything out.
480v rarely just goes "BOOM", it usually goes BANGZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT as you go pooooooo in drawers until the breaker or fuse blows. especially without it being an 100% solid dead short. I know all too well and personal
You’re likely correct. Every time I got to this location which was new to us it was at the end of the day. The first trip didn’t have a manual or supervisor available. It was and is a pos needing cleaned up.
I know, but man, if they just spend a couple more minutes explaining why their price is higher and how it would save maintenance cost later I think it would be worth it, but nobody wants to put the extra work in.
I didn’t run any calls last week. I was off, replacing windows every day until 1130 at night also doing three or four videos which I only do one a week. And there’s a reason for that. And I don’t plan on doing that many again like this. Otherwise, I’m great.
pressure port before and after. just check temperatures? surely that's all they did long ago, with huge latency or they wet clothed the thermometer against the line(mercury bulb) and wrapped with leather to slow absorption and surrounding air effecting it. I.R.L. we've come a long way from using blocks of ice. 🤣 too far really.
SORRY FOR THE LATE RELEASE! This has been a crazy week and had to many things going on. I'm still a little green on chillers but if you know everything already then why are you watching me 😛
i green on everything because i try do everything.i like chillers,custom refrigeration systems and cascade ULF,because not many techs want work on it.
I feel you 👍👍
HOW DARE YOU~~~~~ 🤣
@@HVACRSurvival been at it for 25+ years and i still learn things from peers. all good ideas, tips and tricks are appreciated
Approach temps, flow, discharge superheat, lift...... the most important things for any chiller to operate properly. I know you probably don't have access to the submittal data.....but if you can get it.....that will help tremendously in troubleshooting any chiller. I see brazed plates and shell and tube ( DX barrels ). On a brazed plate, you should have between 5°-10° of approach. On a DX barrel you should have between 3°-8° of approach. 2.4 GPM per ton on the evap and 3 GPM per ton on the condenser. Also it is uber important on any eev controlled system that the transducers and thermistors are reading correctly......they are very frequently out of calibration. There is too much to list here when it comes to chillers....but i have faith you are the man for the job.
You’re one of my biggest supporters Jason! Thanks for the info brother!
good to see some American manufacturing! I worked at Shop Vac in upstate NY for one summer and do not miss it. 120~140*F between the massive injection molding machines with no A/C in the heat August heat. The machine were massive. 50 FT long with 500*F injection barrels and had 150HP eclectic motors for the hydros.
I sometimes stress out working (or fixing in a timely manner) on a $3,000 furnace to keep one person warm…. Meanwhile, you’re working on a massive 6 or 7 figure chiller that is the lifeline of a multi million dollar operation. Perspective, I guess!
A place like that though they have 480v 3 phase power, wonder why they're running that kind of chiller system built from cheap (relatively) scroll compressors? One of the medical device manufacturers near me, has a compressor room with 6 100hp Carrier screw compressors for their chillers, all R134A. Been very reliable (so far). Has a couple BAC cooling towers, and a 2 million gallon water storage tank. Seems kind of messy and hard to work on with all that refrigerant piping and awkward group of scroll compressors.
@@brnmcc01Very interesting to hear. I work quite a lot on chillers in Germany and with all that F-Gas Phase out going on at the moment most new chillers are switched to R290. We‘re mostly using reciprocating compressors from Bitzer or Bock (4-8 cylinders) and sometimes screws.
Nice detail about the water valve artificially raising the head pressure. I work on water cooled equipment as well, but instead of using TXV, they use an AXV. If suppect a low charge, I look at the low side pressure
That’s a good point, I’ll have to make a video on those sometime, I normally only see those on my ice cream machines. And I don’t show a lot on those.
A really awesome video Rick. It’s always cool to see something you have never seen before. Be interesting to see what those TXVs when you change them out. Thanks for the video Rick.
Thanks, brother. I appreciate it.
Sounds like a water flow / heat rejection issue to me. Great video thanks for posting
Ooh, I like random equipment, nice job, Rick!
Thanks man I appreciate it! 🤜🤛
If that's an electronic flow switch and there's some air travelling in the water pipes then sometimes it can cause the glow switch to trip .
That electrical compartment makes me feel at home with the Care pCo and the wire conduits and all 👍
perfect candidate for EEV’s on older chiller. Water cooled and a critical production facility. Will also reduce power consumption. We’ve got electricity supply companies paying for the retrofits as they can sell the power elsewhere. Also you can never trust labels on HP/LP controls!!!
retrofit today and be worse off tomorrow! but if only good parts, techs and operators were available.
Thanks!
DGPIPEFITTER ! Thanks brother 🙏🤜🤛🙂
Thanks for uploading the video ! More great content !
New video from survival, monday evening saved🤙 greets from Germany 😊
@@electroimpex8897 thanks my German brother 🙏🤜🤛👍👍
Great job Rick.
Great video and troubleshooting
Thanks for watching!
Good job Rick, You don't learn, if you don't try............Looks like a PLC controller........
That controller is infamous for losing contacts internally
You had a closed flow switch that the control read open
Just had the same issue with a Carel controller on a fluid cooler
Wait until the factory guy calls u back and says the control is NO longer available.
We had to buy one on EBay and send it to factory for programming
Good luck
I work on those control panels a lot.
You really got to get special tools ( looks like bent screwdriver) for those spring loaded contacts. Using small flat screwdriver is iffy, and actually damages terminal block. I’ve got Wera ones. You can also get Phoenix Contacts and Wieldmuller brand.
You MUST crimp ferrules on those sensor wires, and with them - even if you pull them, and they are not coming out, it still doesn’t mean you get a good contact.
@commenter5469 Good advice!
i wish i was this good, i suck so hard with refrigeration
THIS is the stuff I wanted to get into when I joined the hvac field. I'm 5 years in and all my experience has been residential installation/tech. What advice would you give to someone trying to work on chillers? Im trying to educate myself more on the commercial side and I'm starting to realize all hvac is basically the same just different sizes lol
Install is a dead end to no where if you stay, it’s great to learn how to do it but I was going to get stuck in it for a year or two. So I quit and went to a different company that offered me a service position, I started doing p.m. work, which was boring, but I did it for almost 2 1/2 years before I got to run real service calls, now I knew how the equipment worked and it made me a much better service guy. I did residential for the first 5 to 10 years with some light commercial in between, then I worked for a company that did food service equipment, plus plumbing and HVAC, all good skills to have, but I kind of liked Refrigeration better, after eight years of being of service manager and feeling like I wasn’t learning anything new I quit that company and went to where I am now for the last 10 years. I thought I knew a lot when I came to this company, but I found out how little I knew. If you’ve noticed in my videos, I do about anything and everything, most companies don’t do that many different kinds of things and that’s the reason why I’ve stayed here. It’s not a perfect company, but they pay better than any place in my area and I’ve learned more than I could’ve learned anywhere else. So my advice would be constantly looking for ways to better yourself whether that be with education or possibly moving to another employer. I’m not saying be a job hopper on average. I stayed a minimum of 2 to 3 Years and at some point I stayed for eight years. Never stop learning, always try to be your best, never be satisfied with just average.
Great vid ... Thx
You would think that equipment that is so integral to the operation of their production process would be maintained better or have a full time in-house refrigeration tech.
@@chewielewie6564 you would laugh if you seen where this things located at. It’s out in the middle of nowhere. It’s over an hour and 15 minutes Highway speeds from our shop.
Having worked a long time in manufacturing you would *not* think they’d spend money to maintain equipment… this is all par for the course. In fact, I’ll bet they’ve had normal employees work on/maintain this equipment too.
It hard working on a piece of equipment, knowing if you shut it down, they lose production. You want to tear into it but have to wait for the time when they have a shutdown.
Yep, makes it interesting for sure!
Driers are only good for 24 hours. Eliminate them completely afterwards. Just remove the suction cartridge and cut out the liquid line driers. The TXV has a cage to catch any crap from installation.
It's a SEALED system!
What do I know?
Member RSES, CM,CMS
Tx license TACLB-004153-C.
Thankfully retired.
No, this $1k Txv is completely sweated in and does not have a removable screen, and on rack refrigeration we leave filter dryers in all the time to continue cleaning the system especially after idiots did the shit work that you just seen after not properly diagnosing why all four compressors have been replaced. Also just so you know RSES is nothing more than a membership. It doesn’t mean you know what you’re doing. Just like most other memberships but what do I know. Oh and by the way, I’m RSCS certified too whoopie. Humility goes a long way, you should know that by now if you put 40-50 years in. no one knows everything, especially when you don’t stay on one type of unit nonstop.
Drier-filter are not a problem in the system provided that there not plugged. If they become plugged they need to be replaced repeatedly until they don't become plugged anymore.
If you open the system you should replace with a new drier-filter to remove the small amount of moisture that that procedure added to the system.
Unfortunately POE oil is a solvent made of a process where organic acids are mixed with one or more alcohols, at an elevated temperature. In the process the water is constantly removed.
If you reintroduce the smallest amount of water it will revert back to an acidic solvant. Drier-filters are the only way to remove the moisture from POE oil. Thy will also neutralize some acid.
I prefer solid core drier-filters like Sporlan Catch-All or Danfoss, because solid core drier-filters have more media and seem to plug up when the media fills up.
POE oil doesn't turn to a wax like mineral oil does, but you can still end up with wax in the system from the compressor windings being attacked by an acid or not being properly cooled by the refrigerant.
On a scroll compressor discharge SH should be between 35 - 60 F. This will give you good indication of compressor operation. If the oil is washed out or your not supplying the compressor with enough refrigerant flow the discharge SH will be high. If the compressor is flooding it will be low, but will go high if the oil is washed out of the compressor by the refrigerant. VRF systems use compressor SH as part of their matrix in controlling the system.
Compressor discharge temp - condenser saturated temperature = Discharge SH
@HVACR559 great advice 👍👍. I know discharge superheat is big in chillers. Thank you 🤜🤛
It appeared in the site glass that there was no liquid but some foreign material. When you recover the refrigerant is there a way to flush the system free of this “junk”?
Mainly, just keep changing filter dryers. If you run flushed through that heat exchanger, it might get trapped in there and I highly doubt it’s gonna shove anything out.
480v rarely just goes "BOOM", it usually goes BANGZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT as you go pooooooo in drawers until the breaker or fuse blows. especially without it being an 100% solid dead short. I know all too well and personal
I prefer to not see it in person. Fluke video was good enough. 😁
Flow sensors most likely 4-20 mA, 3 wire
You’re likely correct. Every time I got to this location which was new to us it was at the end of the day. The first trip didn’t have a manual or supervisor available. It was and is a pos needing cleaned up.
A video ❤
Pretty simple one less port makes cheaper to build. Lowest bidder mentality that now seems to run our world. Send me back to the 50's
I know, but man, if they just spend a couple more minutes explaining why their price is higher and how it would save maintenance cost later I think it would be worth it, but nobody wants to put the extra work in.
👍🏻
You feeling weird? You don't seem as fatigued as you usually are
I didn’t run any calls last week. I was off, replacing windows every day until 1130 at night also doing three or four videos which I only do one a week. And there’s a reason for that. And I don’t plan on doing that many again like this. Otherwise, I’m great.
pressure port before and after. just check temperatures? surely that's all they did long ago, with huge latency or they wet clothed the thermometer against the line(mercury bulb) and wrapped with leather to slow absorption and surrounding air effecting it. I.R.L. we've come a long way from using blocks of ice. 🤣 too far really.
Been working on a few of those Ata plastic plant also. Hate going behind others. Not knowing what they've done. Drives you crazy.
You’re 100% right man that sucks
That Titan brand is junk
@@mikemoseley8711 that’s what I’m kind of thinking. Have you seen that kind of shit happened before?
@ Yes,worked on three different types and all were junk and like to eat up compressor’s. Just a bad design all around.