Inside an unusual battery for cheap eBay tools - with schematic
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- One of the nice things about these tool batteries is that they are relatively simple, have a BMS system and best of all, the ability to shut themselves off when the charge is low.
I did a few cycles on a couple of the cells and they measure in at 1400mAh (1.4Ah).
“Lets void warranty” I would be extremely surprised if there was anything close to a warranty on any of this.
Sometimes they get you to buy with the promise of a warranty but then there is a whole paragraph of tiny print listing all the exceptions that void coverage. Or if you wish to have it repaired the shipping costs are all on you, you may as well just buy another unit.
@@tncorgi92From a different scammer! LOL
@@tncorgi92 Or they say you have to pay the postage back which costs more than the battery, so no one bothers.
I had better experiences with refunds and warranty with cheap chinese aliexpress stuff than with top brand manufacturers. Sometimes i have the feeling that big companies do everything in their power to make the warranty/refund process as tiresome and long as possible
I bought a cheap (perhaps the cheapest) remote control dog training collar (of the type without electric shock, just beeps and vibrations) on eBay from a Chinese seller and the vibrator motor stopped working after a couple months, I contacted the seller to see if they could send me another collar, I told them I didn't need the remote control but they said they would send me everything brand new but I had to send them a video crushing the faulty collar and I could keep the remote for spares, so I also removed the tiny (10x10mm) receiver PCB from the collar before hammering it to have even more spare parts.
That was fine for a thing with removable non-rechargeable batteries but I hope they don't ask their customers to do the same with things with rechargeable lithium batteries 😬
If it wasn't for your videos, I'd have zero interest in reverse engineering circuits like I do programs. But here I am, learning electrical stuff and having a lot of fun because vibin' with Clive never gets old 😁
I'm the same. I spent a lot of my teens in IDA Pro, .net reflector, Detours (before I found better hooking libs) etc. I had a huge blind spot in my knowledge regarding circuits and electronics before I started watching Clive, AvE, EEV, MarcoReps etc
@@hayleyxyz Dang, I know every one of those 👀 and myself personally I rolled my own C++ hook libraries that kinda caught on amongst friends of mine 😁
@@Bittboy Any projects/GH repos I'd know? :)
@@hayleyxyzthats still my challenge. I can take the tools apart and repack them with grease or diagnose mechanical faults. Circuitry i am almost inept.
So glad your back!
Disappointed in YT fer sure.
" They speak better English than I do Chinese "
That humbled me a bit.
Thank you.
Agreed, excellent little statement.
With UK laws the seals that say warranty void if removed are pointless as they are not legal
The US recently made this a law as well 👍
@@Bittboy 1975 when the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act passed which is the law that makes those stickers invalid is far from recent, its just it depends on the regulators to enforce it and that depends on which political party is in charge at that time.
Right to repair has become very popular recently in the US (for values of recently up to say a decade or so) but not because of cheap stuff like this. The biggest US case is that of farm machinery makers who do strange things with the code in the onboard computers that brick huge expensive tractors if you do anything like use off brand accessories.
Manufacturers of consumer devices have pretty much always made it difficult to get into and fix or modify your goods, sometimes for understandable safety reasons, sometimes for liability reasons, but most often so that when it breaks you come back to them rather than a competitor.
There have been exceptions like Ford Motor Company (and others) including repair and maintenance tools in the car at no added cost so that the owner could keep their car going, but then there weren’t a lot of service dealers around at the time. Now that “certified” mechanics exist the carmakers don’t want us fooling around with the insides at all.
@@markfergerson2145 ya i have been following that a little also with the Iphone, laptops, Tesla's etc
@@thedragonhunter Steve Lehto (YT channel) did a video on this a couple weeks ago. "Feds Target Those ‘Warranty Void if Removed’ Stickers"
Glad to see you back Clive!
Where has he been? ... Poundland?
Nice to see the best man in the business back in action.
I’ve actually seen these used on site. I asked the guy if they were any good as my 12 year old DeWalt drill was on its last legs. He said that he had bought ten for the same price as a professional drill and after a year he was about half way through them. I really didn’t know what to say to that but I replaced my drill with another DeWalt.
Ah yes, the Matsushitta range where the plastic box lasts longest?
🙂
I like watching Clive doing a tech autopsy whenever I have a migraine. Your videos are always relaxing. ☕️😌👍💯
Well said about use as general source of power - I use a variety of the Aldi/Lidl ones for running soldering irons or just general powering when fiddling around away from the bench. If I had a 3D printer I'd probably try to make a custom connection lead but manage with spade terminals crimped on the end of wires - and some coloured paint on the battery pack to remind me of the + and - connections. (Got that wrong once so learnt my lesson after blowing up a RF module)
Glad you are back up and running :)
Having it come in at 1400mAh kind of surprised me...I was figuring normal chinesium figures rule at maybe 1200mAh at best.
that pack would help get my old makita drivers back up as the old nicd cells are dead but the tools still work great
My thoughts exactly!
When I designed microchips and wrote data sheets for them, NC meant that there was no connection between the pin and the internal circuitry. 'DO NOT CONNECT' meant just that, and was used to describe test pins (especially outputs) and other reserved pins that the user needed to leave alone! However, there is no guarantee that all manufacturers documented their pin lists that way!
Sometimes we had zener logic on our chips. A voltage above about 10V on these "NC" pins turned on diagnostic circuits or ID bits to deter counterfeits.
I don’t know who you worked for but that was the industry standard for a very long time. I remember DIY chip tester schematics in electronics magazines back in the day with high impedance amps for reading those pins. For those who don’t know, a sufficiently high impedance will allow you to see what’s going on at such a pin without loading it, making the chip “think” the pin is left floating so as to not trigger undesired operation.
These days even some microprocessors are relatively cheap jellybean parts so there’s little point in bothering with that level of diagnostic, with “remove and replace” now being the default.
I'm learning a lot from you...❤
The full datasheet for that CW1053 included a reference application schematic with resistors and capacitors (100nF) on the inputs. The simplified schematic in the English brief datasheet did not.
"Let's void warrenty" would be perfect for T shirts.
Right up there with “No user serviceable parts inside? I’ll be the judge of that!”
Big Clive's Merch Store ...
T-Shirt: "One Moment Please!"
T-Shirt: "Let's Void The Warranty!"
T-Shirt: "Reverse Engineering Is Complete!"
T-Shirt: "Fire Containment Pie Dish!"
T-Shirt: "I've Been To The Isle Of Big Clive!"
T-Shirt: "This Isn't Going Back Together!"
T-Shirt: "Will It Carbonate?"
T-Shirt: "AC ⚡ BC"
T-Shirt: "Big Clive Does It With A Screwdriver!"
T-Shirt: "Big Clive's Kink Palculator!"
T-Shirt: "Big Clive ❤️ Poundland!"
T-Shirt: "China❤️ Big Clive!"
T-Shirt: "Big Clive ❤️ LEDs!"
The schematic
One of the best channels ever on UA-cam.
Love it
👍🇬🇧
I love the 12 volt batteries, they take a standard barrel jack and they are perfect for vintage electronics like camcorders and the like because they often are designed to run off 12v cigarette lighter ports in cars. Battery banks often can't reach the amp requirements for these devices and won't work, and the original batteries are cooked because they're lead and 30 years old.
Your channel has absolutely exploded over the last year. Well done. 👏
If there's anything we like on this channel it's explosions! 😉
Please compare the 2 types of ryobi batteries. In South Africa we get the Kyocera licenced Ryobi products not the lime green available in UK and USA. The battery is a different shape entirely. I'd love to see if battery safety is equivalent because both are marketed as 18V ONE+ systems...
In the us ryobi also has a 40 volt line that uses a different battery. i still think somebody needs to make a 2x 18v to 40v adapter that isn't $100.
I would support you even more if I would not have to use YT. So in case you find a backup solution ... but I know, it is a hard one from the money side.
I know that it's a personal choice but I prefer the charge indicator lights on the battery itself. Actually having them on the tool and the battery would be best.Someplace such as the back of the top part of the drill, opposite where drill bits are held, or on the top surface. Where they are on the drill in the video are useful to most people but not those whom are left-handed, unless the lights are on both sides of the drill. It's a minor annoyance but little issues such as that may turn a functional drill into one that a person loves to use. My point about the battery energy level indicators on the batteries is that it saves the users from having to attach the batteries to a drill, or other tool, in order to find out how much energy is left in the battery. If the indicator is on the battery one is able to determine the energy level without requiring anything else.
Having an indicator on a drill would be useful, or at least having the tool designed for better battery attachment, because with at least one of my DeWalt drills (drill driver or impact drill that I purchased together as a kit) the battery slides in at the bottom of the handle such that the energy indicator is left facing the front. Ideally, the safest way to check the battery power level is to remove the battery, press the button to get the LEDs lit, and then attach the battery again. Otherwise, one has to point the drill generally in the direction of ones' head, press the indicator button, and view the LEDs. If it's very bright out one must be fairly close to the LEDs in order to see which ones light up. I'm just pointing out that in a world in which people require whole wheat bread to have warning that it contains, of all surprising things, wheat, that perhaps designing a drill that requires the same people to turn the drill towards their head in order to see the battery level is not the best case of industrial design.
"Lets void the warranty" thats a T-shirt/sticker idea!
I'm impressed they didn't bother to laser off the chip identification. I wonder if it's getting to point where "everyone knows" what everyone uses.
Yeah it's not like there's some kind of revolutionary circuit design going on, keeping the chip a secret is kind of pointless.
When you first showed this circuit board on Patron I wrote a quite long post about what I thought of it, then pressed the wrong button and lost it all. I couldn't be bothered to type it all again. It was more of less what you explained here.
I question whether the board was originally intended to be used for a 3-cell pack, I would have thought the adaptation would be simpler than adding the link wire if that was the case. Performing this at board level is cheaper if that is the intention at design stage.
This is actually brilliant, the output mosfet for discharge protection is a great.
Only 1400 mAh - it's a shame they cut corners with such low capacity. Using 3000 mAh cells would give twice as much drilling time. Also this forces the customer to buy two battery packs to do the same amount of work. 😪
I wonder if it is to support high C discharge, this compromises capacity on cheaper 18650s presumably?
Well, it comes with three battery packs, so they've got you covered. ;)
TEAR INVALID
Dully noted, all local wheelchair users will be torn in half. Anyway clever use of the label to hide the alternative use for the case :)
Alright Chief, it's me again. Another eventful day in my world. I learned the hard way not to hold the output cable of a CRT flyback transformer with my right hand while holding the ground line against a ruler with my left hand. I managed to get about 2 cm arcs (I was measuring, the output with a ruler; I tried using digital callipers first, but they went haywire) and measured around 60 kV (2 cm arcs) at 50 kHz but then it decided it preferred to get to ground through my finger. It tingled terribly, to the point of pain, for a brief moment, and left slight blackened patches on my fingertip, as if a laser had been shot through it.
Thanks for your work, BC. (I should have used proper PPE, that is my rubberized gardening gloves from B&M.)
interestingly, after some time, i have noticed very superficial burns on both of the other phalanges of the finger that has been 'lasered'. in the places where it touches itself when one holds something small between finger and thumb.
Art of War: Enough, and no more.
I showed a mate how to break into his X5 with one of these! He was impressed!
May be the purpose of the VM pin is to detect if the short is still there after the MOSFet turned off without turning it on again.
Thank you, keep working.
Interesting teardown. I have a 12V Bosch drill and driver but so far have never had a battery failure to open the battery pack.
Was looking at a similar pack on Aliexpress with the cells mounted vertical for powering some LED strip, hopefully the charge circuitry is similar
1400 out of 1500 mAH is not unreasonable for such cheap products. Cell life after many cycles is more of a concern but replacement cost is so low that most people won’t care. It does add to e-waste though.
I just wish that some day, “low cost” won’t automatically mean “disposable”.
Clive, would you consider having a look at the IKEA 12v drill battery and doing a tear down? It’s £13 and rechargeable via USB-C. Haven’t found anyone reviewing it let alone doing a tear down, but it actually looks like it could be very useful.
Harbor freight has a very similar style pack that l haven't disassembled, but did buy two of for projects since they were unreasonably cheap
Thank you Clive.
Very safe Clive.
I wonder if the extra cell is there for 14.4v - the most common value for hand tool batteries after 12v.
Surprisingly good, nothing terrible at all. I'm so disappointed!!
Presumably you would need maverick or ballistic trousers with matching belt.
Most of the ones I come across here have one failed cell and the remaining cells measure between 1250 and 1450 mAh on the Xtar VP4 Plus battery tester. It's worrying how many I've seen with failed cells which look suspiciously new.
Cheap and mostly functional, just needs some de-chinafication to make them a bit nicer, kind of like the £14 soldering kit I got off ebay this week, comes with solder, iron, stand, sucker, brass wool, tweezers, etc., everything reasonable enough to get someone started in soldering, except the iron needs electrical de-chinafication, as they used 2-core aluminium wire with a neutral-breaking switch in the cable on an iron with provisions for proper earthing but no earth, on top of a fake 13A fuse and weak plug pins (they broke far too easily!), it could be a mini fireworks display if things went wrong with that!!! :P
Check that 'brass' wool with a magnet. I think you will find that it is plated steel.
@@terrygee210 I checked with a neodiddlyum magnet and it is non-magnetic, so it's very likely to be brass wool, could be some other non-magnetic metal, but, I'll give the benefit of the doubt on that... :)
@@twocvbloke It sounds like you have a good 'un. Most of the cheap brass tip cleaners on ebay etc. are actually steel.
These days, most brick and mortar retailers are making up their margin by selling us the alternative to the blow molded case.
Need to add some kinda balancing solution for the cells, like add a balance lead to it? or some kinda socket?
another way to do the 4th cell connection without having to do that wire o4 an actual cell would be a dummy cell without any chemistry inside - they usually are available for dialing in your welding machine as that goes outta tune easily...
"Tear invalid" - don't cry!
I bought one of these 12v tools when they first started appearing, the first one I go was trash, the pack felt so light, it felt like there was nothing inside, so i took it apart with the intention of turfing it, inside there was only batteries, some foam padding to stop rattle( I'm guessing), no circuit board, the cells felt empty, I didn't have the capacity to test so in the bin it went. I've had OK luck since, chargers on the otherhand have been hit and miss.
I'm always surprised by the quality of these cheap stuff. It's not death traps at all.
It's a nice little case and accessories, even if the drill eventually dies you've still got lots of decent bits unless it turns out they're all made from soft metal...
I wouldn't say that the quality was anything to write home about. But, that said, at the price of these and for something you are not going to be using every day or commercially then they are perfectly acceptable. And it certainly can be handy to have a cheap little drill like these in addition to your usual tools so you don't have to keep swapping drill-bits if you need to drill pilot holes etc.
Hey, Big Clive, everything I own is cheap, mostly Chinese, and from eBay! ... Yet despite this, I'm somehow STILL alive!
Big Clive's Merch Store ...
T-Shirt: "One Moment Please!"
T-Shirt: "Let's Void The Warranty!"
T-Shirt: "Reverse Engineering Is Complete!"
T-Shirt: "Fire Containment Pie Dish!"
T-Shirt: "I've Been To The Isle Of Big Clive!"
T-Shirt: "This Isn't Going Back Together!"
T-Shirt: "Will It Carbonate?"
T-Shirt: "AC ⚡ BC"
T-Shirt: "Big Clive Does It With A Screwdriver!"
T-Shirt: "Big Clive's Kink Palculator!"
T-Shirt: "Big Clive ❤️ Poundland!"
T-Shirt: "China ❤ Big Clive!"
T-Shirt: "Big Clive ❤️ LEDs!"
100% I would purchase "Let's Void The Warranty!" shirt.
chinese power tools are amazing, slowly prices are dropping, slowly quality is getting higher, and the cheap models are becoming brushless motors. I like these batteries that simply use a barrel jack vs proprietary chargers that are large and can't be used for anything else.
Makita's batteries have the best terminals. Only the 18V LXTs' though. I hate the new GXT terminals. I have some 10 year old batteries that lost only 20% capacity and peak amperage, STILL going strong. Used daily with full discharge 4-6 times a day. Used in impact AND in a circ saw. Meanwhile I see dewalts/milwaukees die month 3. And even then only 1/2 cells die of the 10, I open it up, replace the cells, it's ready for work again.
I'm saying this because the previous 18V's are "stealing" the makita layout and can go on any makita tool no issue.
looks remarkably like the budget power tool range sold by that big national tool chain. T/S
I find it quite annoying not having the battery charge indicator on the battery. I use Milwaukee tools and always thought skipping that feature on the M12 stuff was an odd choice.
what is going on here? did your video get age restricted?
Not that I'm aware of.
No it is IQ restricted, sorry but you don't comply
Handy tip # 34 ........ Should you have a good working battery drill for which you CANNOT ! source a matching battery pack .... then just connect any 12 Volt Lead - acid fire alarm battery ( or two in series ? ) .... connect a metre or two of flex and put in a shoulder bag , ( slightly less convenient ) , but works OK up ladders etc ... do NOT forget to FULLY charge your Lead acid battery ( to 14 Volts max ) ASAP afterwards , or it WILL ! sulphate ( tried - n - tested ) .. DAVE™🛑
What are the chances we can get a review of the drill set? Curious to see how useful/less the cheap sets are
I notice your videos offer 1080P premium, does UA-cam encourage you to upload in 1080p30 format?
Motion looks less smooth as usual; had you recorded at 60fps but converted it to 30?
I only tend to upload at 1080P and probably 30FPS.
"Warranty void" labels are illegal in the USA
Clive..... Hello,,,,,, I am puzzled what has happened to Saturday night Clive ?. or have I lost the plot. I am only just recovering from YT screwing up my comments and me loosing contact with the Tribe. Anyway I wan't to say thank you for helping me and others through stuff. You videos settle an over active mind and keep us grounded. Best to you.
I've moved to Twitch to avoid UA-cam politics. But at the moment I'm working 7 days week, so can't stream.
@@BigClive Your forgiven, YT gone potty. Thanks Clive I have you on Patreon but my XP browser won't let me in and I have forgotten the password.. Onward and upward. Best wishes.
Hi Big Clive, sorry this is out of place, I have a defective Phillips Hue bulb. Do you want it to disassemble?
You didn't tear that label, so everything is fine!
2:12 "let's start voiding warranties"... You did that when you bought it 😂
I'm thinking of adding a second battery to my eBike. There are many dual battery adapters available. I was wondering how (and how well) they work and any potential problems.
-1for failing the opportunity to say: "...an adapter to drive DEZ NUTS!"
BRODA EEEUH
So I bought one of those mini-chainsaws, but could not find the type, nor the price you got yours for. I bought the cheapest one I could find, assuming I could upgrade if I find it invaluable around the yard.
I've got a metal bucket full of sand I'll charge it in, lol. Here's to hopin' I still have all my digits next week...
I wouldn't recommend the sand bit, a metal, tray or bucket is fine.
This should create some comments!!!! I (Purely by luck) clicked on this very interesting video about 1 minute after it was posted. There was 175 thumbs up before the video finished. Mine is No.176 thumbs up just after I had watched it all. Some people must have far faster internet connections than I do or is there some "prestige" in being No.1 thumbs up?
Patreon members get to see the videos before everyone else. If you look at the comments, you'll see some are from a month ago. So, no super fast internet, no prestige, just early viewing privileges for some.
real temperature sensor? Built to higher standards than datasheet schematic? Looks pretty nice!
I have some that claim to be 5000mah but are actually about 2300mah. SkyWolfEye or some such name.
Your battery powered drill looks almost the same as my Wilco powered drill. I bought it then Wilco diss appeared help
Is it a MOSFET or a FET?
I think most FETs are Metal Oxide Semiconductor based.
Thanks :)
Link to the pack?
So is this made in China and marketed for use in other countries? What is actually marketed for use in China.
A 12v drill? So a screwdriver then?
Looks a nice design I still would be wary of leaving it on charge though lol thanks Clive 😊
I recommend that NO lithium batteries are left on chargers continuously. Including brands like DeWalt. The batteries should be charged and then disconnected after a suitable time, to allow for the balancing feature in some to finish its work.
No charge balancing then :-(
3 x 3.6v = 10.8v battery
4 x 3.6v = 14.4v
There is no 12
and 5 x 3.6v is 18v, but lots of those tools are marketed as 20v, which is 5 x 4v. The ultra wanky tools are called 21v or 5 x 4.2v (the max charge voltage of a li-ion cell). So, if we use the most common Marketing Wank: 3 cells is 12v, 4 is 16v, and 5 is 20v. Perhaps we should describe batteries with the 4S2P nomenclature, but it's probably too late for that.
Ah yes, Universal Batteries. Designed in such a way that they can't be used with any incompatible devices.
Isn't the mystery diode to pin 15 the wrong way round on your schematic?
Would it be possible to mod these packs with different cells than the ones currently installed?
It could be done with a bit of effort.
Is it possible to add another cell to make a 14.4V Pack?
Only with a change of chip too.
What's happened to the Saturday night live every fortnight on the free channel? Since the previous lives were taken off, I've not seen a live session for a couple of months. Are we now forced to subscribe as a patreon?
I moved to Twitch after a mean UA-cam strike. But I'm currently working 7 day weeks, so can't stream.
Hope You're Having a Great Weekend, Clive!! 🔋🔋🔋🤩😃🥃🍻🏝🧔♂❤
Ya 🎆🎇🎆🎇 Back to "normal" 😀
Interesting circuitry. 2x👍
lol, it has room for a 4th battery even on the board. So scuffed.
For using in a Tesla
In the description it says BMS system does that mean Battery Management System system lol
Either that, or Bright Mild Steel. Or possibly some random Chinglish.
@@alexandermonro6768 Bright mild steel system doesn't sound right lol
You mention "testing the cell's capacity" how do you do that now in 2024? Is it still about the same as ua-cam.com/video/OaZxLxgf7Ro/v-deo.html ? I'm thinking of a new 18650 charger but one with some more smarts.
I still do some tests with a full charge from 3V, but also sometimes use a monitored discharge test.
How are there comments from 4 weeks ago but this video was posted an hour ago?
Patreon members get early views
hi clive :D
1400mAh battery instead of 3000 environmental pollution.
In the US it is actually illegal to add those warranty void if removed stickers as there are specific warranty requirements that must be meet and those batteries do not meet the requirements as they are stringent. It violates the Right To Repair laws.
I'm not sure the stickers are illegal as such, more that they don't actually void the warranty
There's a weird symmetry about stealing a design, but in turn writing all the components on the board in white ink, to help the next guy copy it.
Why is there comments from 4 weeks ago when this was posted an hour ago
Patreon members get early views
4:44 I hope you HACKED a 4th battery in and checked if the tool works with a 16v instead. Or this would be a clive unapproved video.
It would need a different chip.
No matter the language, they're still lying. 🙄
a