I don't like being judged or inspected by box-ticking narcissists. Not do I like being subjected to what are basically protection rackets. That's why I've let all my "cards" expire and have no immediate desire to work in the electrical industry again. The irony being that these organisations are also responsible for the one-day slideshows with open-book tests that are being used to circumvent real training by replacing it with liability transfer.
I hate to say it, but hearing stories like this make me thankful for the system we use instead. It sounds like to me, engerneres who couldn't be a electrician are telling people that the clipboard says the job is done wrong just to justify a pay check. We have them on some jobs too, but its more or less a construction companys rep rather then being a state appointed moron.
That´s a proper rant. They do that in the food industry, too. If someone fails as a butcher, they can always be health inspectors, because they take everyone they possibly can. Nobody wants to do that job just shouting at people every day and leaving very expensive fines and constraints. You could complain, but if you do, they´ll send someone over to add something to the list and they can shut your business down instantly. As one of those guys was about to retire, he basically apologized for what he´s done for decades. He tried to be nice in the end. Nice move, but too late.
Perhaps the reason why you need to label them is because not everyone can see colors..... And to make it more idiot proof or something like that or should I say idiot resistant. 😂
This seems sufficiently widespread that someone ought to compile a representative sample and confront Ozev about it, pointing out the losses their subcontractors' errors have caused, and OZEV's potential legal liability for costs of unnecessary work dealing with it, as well as reputational damage by informing customers that work is substandard when it isn't. A FOIA request for the process used to appoint their subcontractors might also be interesting. Assuming the auditors are known, and are members of a professional body, a complaint to that body is also probably in order.
@@tcpnetworks One would hope their respective NICEIC, NAPIT or other approved contractor body would be firmly on their side. Not in bed with EV auditors.
Sounds like MOTs for cars. I've had advisories on mine one year, then magically not the next year. A friend of mine who does up cars said its due to the MOT tester. If you get one on the take, they'll make stuff up which magically disappears the next year if its either a different tester or the original tester just doesn't remember what they made up the year before.
When the inspector is wrong, they MUST be held accountable. They need to be fined or sacked when they are wrong. When they lie they need to be removed from being an inspector. Name the inspectors and hold them accountable.
@@husher5142 I think that the inspector should have sufficient knowledge, training and experience not to make those simple errors. If the inspector does not. Then why are they an inspector! When wrong this costs people money. Reputation and livelihood. We should expect and demand more from our government employees.
@@stevejh69 not necessarily we are all human and learn at different pacing. I could hired 5 different senior network techs and they will all have strength and weaknesses based on their experience.
@@husher5142 Thanks husher. But. There has to be accountability when they are wrong. This can cause people to be fired. Bills to be not paid. And being able to walk away without any consequences is unacceptable.
@@stevejh69 100% You cant audit people on work this serious and not be held accountable for the severity of your judgement be it right or wrong without some accountability. It's people's livelihoods at stake. Cory is clearly a competent electrician for what he does. To suggest he isn't safe or careful or thoughtful about his work is ridiculous. No one should be able to just pass judgement on electrical work and attempt to penalise without suffering the same penalty. They should know as understand as much and they expect someone like Cory to know and understand
I had the same problem with my audit of an EV charge point install. I referred all of the C2 C3 and the whole audit report to NICEIC. This is a widespread issue and many contractors have complained to NICEIC who have now taken this up at senior level with OZEV and SRElectrical who did many of the audits. After a while NICEIC came back to me and rebutted all four of the C2s saying they were either invalid or C3s at worst. Many of the other points on the audit were nonsense. It has caused a bit of a shitstorm and I am more worried about reputational damage because the loons doing the audits also write to customer of the install saying there are problems. Really pissed me off but thanks to NICEIC for standing up against this.
If it was my house I'd want to know if there was a chance my electrical installation was defective or dangerous. Customer's house, customer's money = customer needs to know.
@@duplicitouskendoll9402 he is certainly not complaining that people receive a letter is something is below par. It is a massive issue that the inspectors are not good enough.
Too much obsession with codes and getting the right code. It's more important to list the defects, provide that to the customer and make a recommendation which ones must remediated, and that is determined as to whether there is an electric shock risk or fire risk.
Get the inspector to explain why he said what he said, and to show onsite what he thinks is wrong, Cory please keep up the good work you are one in a million.
As a full-time electrical inspector, I agree with you fully Cory. Every time I note a defect it has to have an ACTUAL regulation that it relates to, but this takes nit-picking above and beyond anything reasonable.
Is it reasonable to assume the man was ignorant of the work being done and therefore thought all points regarding retrospective and non applicable works were valid?
My Grandad lives in a sheltered accommodation,,and recently he had a radiator put in,,,,1 guy came to put it in....2 guy came to check it had been done appropriately. 3 guy came to check the checker...........
@@JoneKone The IET regulations are NOT law. The Building Regulations are the law. If you fail to follow IET regulations you can't be prosecuted. If an accident occurs and someone is injured, then the HSE can come down and take a look at what happened, and they take into consideration the failures to comply with the IET Regs.
reminds me of a free mot test i got done at halfords, it passed but boy did he nitpick the hell out of it. brake pedal rubber a bit worn and slippery - it was just a little bit worn, not slippery at all. phone mount on windscreen - every other mot tester just removes it - they had to put it on the mot results. i chalked this up to that they have to show their superiors that they are scrutining the work and giving it an easy pass so they nitpick and find any fault they can record.
Hi Cory, as a serving firefighters the need to apply metal fixings to a cable located 200mm from the floor is absolute rubbish. The reg was introduced after firefighters died after being entangled in a high level retro fit install. If those original cable clips are going to fail prematurely, there won't be fire crews any where near it! Great work 👏
When I used to do final production test of nuclear medicine instruments, we had a QA inspector who felt he had to find something to write up. He would spend a half day looking until he found something. We got to where we would leave a loose screw so he could "find" it.
NICEIC "auditors" worked like this in the region I used to work. One of my colleagues was in exactly the same situation: his company always left an easy to locate "noncompliance" for the auditor to write up. The auditor always looked pleased to have been able to tick all the boxes and complete the paperchase and made everyone's day go much more smoothly. "I have to find something" he said, "no installation is perfect." My colleague's favourite was to leave one light cable trailing over the ceiling grid not clipped up on the suspenders, or in one room he'd "forget" to earth the grid. Of course he couldn't include the same fault every time because that would be written up as "issues unrectified, failure to improve"! This is one reason everyone I worked with used to hate dealing with NICEIC, back in the days before they merged with Elecsa. No idea what they are like today; I'm not in that part of the industry currently, but I'd be interested to know...
There are people like this everywhere. I worked with a few in the software world. Usually older, close to retirement age types that seemed allergic to enthusiasm. Eventually we learned to leave low hanging fruit for them. One guy, we'll call him Calvin, would always quote 2 or three problems with any software plan we'd put together for some work. So we'd make two or three obvious gaffs, prepare solutions for them in advance, wait until he took a week of being idle to cite them, fix them and get the plan cleared. It became a bit of a joke in the end.
@deang5622 Yes, my father had an audit done a while ago for his taxes. He kept meticulous notes and complied 100%. He got audited, auditor was there 3 days going over everything and and eventually gave my dad some really BS minor couple things that were basically non-issues.. My dad asked him what was wrong with what he did. He said, okay look, my job is to audit stuff and to find things wrong, if I dont find something wrong then it doesn't look good on me. You did extremely well, and anyother time I would never even notes these, but I cant come back with an empty report. Going forward my dad always left something minor that was somewhat easy to find that wouldnt result in a fine to speed up the process
It's just an auditor on a power trip. These types have so little power everywhere else and are insecure about it to the point they are now going mad when they get into any positions which has some form of it.
@@snackentity5709 at the same time not finding faults doesn't mean they're not working. But these will get kicked back and make them look worse to the boss imo
@@migo70 I get that not finding faults doesn't mean they're not working. I'm just trying to imagine the range of possible motives behind the behavior. The place I work has a company-wide auditor that comes in every year and he's real cool and practical. But then we have a customer auditor that comes in when we work on projects for them and he seems nice, but always finds SOMETHING to write down, no matter how inconsequential. He doesn't appear to be power tripping or have a big ego, which is why I'm wondering about other motives like trying to appear diligent and impactful for the boss-man. Buy yea I agree, if an *astute* boss sees a lot of junk write-ups, they would probably not like that from a reputation perspective.
I exclusively do EICRs for a living, and this sounds like yours was done by someone with no experience (which is fine, experience takes time), but more damningly they weren't working with someone who does have experience in order to learn from them. It's one thing being qualified but you absolutely need time with an experienced tester to really learn the job. There was nothing there worth more than a C3, because as you say, current regs only relate to current installs and if older work met regs at the time of install and are still perfectly serviceable there is no legal requirement to change anything. Plus, you are absolutely not responsible for the entire installation if you come in to add a circuit or change a socket etc., and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. Can't you make an official complaint?
@@brianwoodruff4891 I guess this isn't an EICR - it's an audit using the EICR as a framework. But otherwise I generally agree although many may not have done install work for a very long time so I'm not an advocate of people having to follow a proscribed route - the test is competence. Clearly the C2's in this are completely incorrect, they'd be nit-picking to call them C3's.
That's exactly what I was thinking, it sounds like someone fresh out the box reading regs and not understanding what they actually mean. Sometimes a little knowledge is more dangerous than no knowledge.
Whoever did the audit clearly doesn’t have a clue but likes to quotes a few regs to make money and everyone’s life difficult. Let’s face it, the person sat in the ozev office won’t be from an electrical background and will just see the codes that are written and call the job a fail
Agreed, based on this auditing example, if you installed an additional socket in say a classroom dado trunking, but the Main Switch located in another building miles away from this classroom isn't labelled "Main Switch" you wouldn't be compliant, complete nonsense
It should be mandatory that the audits are done while the installer is present. Like the yearly NIC EIC assessment, then discussions regarding C1's, 2's and 3's can be had at the time. The last thing a contractor or a customers wants to hear is that an install that cost a lot of money is ' DANGEROUS ' . Things like this can badly damage people's businesses. Another government cash cow 🐄 scam if you ask me
There’s tons of dodgy findings on these audits for a whole bunch of installers I know! We had a finding which I totally disagreed with, I’ve challenged the findings, and they’ve passed off the audit with no further action. Crazy. This is definitely some kind of profiteering exercise for the auditing companies.
This is becoming a common issue with the audits. I even know they have been mixing up sites with other sites and even putting the wrong contractors on the reports I have a sneaky suspicion they have to find something on the audits to justify their job
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." Would a good electrician serve in a regulatory body rather than do real work? What do you think? :-)
The work you do is the best I have ever seen there was no CODE 1 or CODE 2 you can see that you care about the work you do Cory keep the good workmanship up 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Jordan should be able to have the inspector meet you on site to discuss his findings and Artisan Electrical should also be able to complain to the inspectors employer. If I was the inspector I would have no problem appearing on your vlog to discuss the issues
The guy inspecting it is either incompetent or never done any electrical work in his life. Or was his 1st day on the job after doing an online course and swallowed the book
Oh dear! It is ridiculous. I don’t know much behind ev chargers but you are clearly a very well managed company that specialise in EV chargers so how would you mess it up
Nothing wrong with the cable outside, it will not hinder any escape in a fire situation. The code is more about a fire inside a building where cables can be hanging down and firefighters getting entangled and losing their lives, I have been in that situation, and is not a nice thing to happen. I think that the inspector is taking things too far and insulting the memory of those who have been killed shame on him.
Atleast we can all be glad that the NICEIC is now building a case to audit the auditors due to a very high number of complaints of incorrect details and classifications.
It stinks of corruption and possibly some contractors that don't know the field they are working in... i too would like to know what the incentive structure is to find issues.. keep us upto date Cory.
I agree with most of what you've said here, bare in mind I'm not an electrician I just enjoy this type of content. That said at 12:50 you stated if you can't identify by colour you shouldn't be inside the consumer unit. That isn't true. Some electricians are colour blind. There's no law stopping them from being an electrician. Just pointing this out. Not intended to nit pick or anything. Keep up the great content
I would like to say to Cory, congratulations with maintaining your smile and positive, moderate and frankly superhuman demeanour during your 'rant'. Me, I'd have been hurt, then angry, then steaming. It's absolute corruption, and I hope that the company who performed this audit and the others you've heard about get publicly shamed. It's toxic and has no place in British industry. I'm very tempted to write to my MP which I've only ever done once!
It's not corruption. It's the inspectors justifying their jobs and in turn the inspector's boss happily bean-counting the defects to show his boss, and so on up the chain. Good old British bureaucracy. Plus ca change,........................
You guys need to go to the mgt of OZEV and have a sit down on camera with them about this, and show them what they are reporting on exactly. I would pay to watch that. 👍💲💲
I’ve dealt with auditors now for the last 3 years where I work and I get the feeling that when a company hires another company to audit they always find something to justify them being there and that’s what it’s about they have to find something probably to get paid. Quoting a non existent regulation. What’s that all about? Funny thing is I bet if you looked at their work it would be substandard you tend to find.
I agree with almost everything, but have to say, time mark 18:40 .. having another RCD upstream without a time delay does not make anything 'less safe' just more irritating if it trips in both places, or if you go to the charger only to find it's tripped in the consumer unit. I've come across 3 RCDs in a row before, C3 all the way. Lack of selectivity is sloppy but not dangerous. (With obvious exceptions like a hospital DB with a bank of 30mA RCBOs and an 30mA RCD main switch, for example, where the RCD main switch might trip and take out all the RCBOs feeding medical equipment)
I wouldn’t take it personally. The auditors report numbers back to the governing body. If they didn’t find anything wrong, what are they for? Imagine all the UK installs shown as a load of graphs in a presentation, that’s all the “results” showing trends etc. All the auditors are doing is justifying their own existence. Even if you did it 100% right (which it already was) they would still find fault because they have too 👍🏻
Brilliant! Definitely something odd behind these audits, either inexperience or some form of payment for failed installations. Follow the money. This was also riveting, and I suggest should be on prime-time TV. “Code 2, you’re covered in poo” 😜
Cory as a fire prevention company in ireland that cable clipped is in no way an issue with premature collapse or will affect exit from house in event of fire in my opinion
As a retired approved electrician (doesn’t mean very much now I realise!) and after listening and watching your video I would be very happy to have you work on any electrical installation job I have ever worked on during the 35 years of running jobs, weather industrial or domestic. Keep up the good work young man.
They Just shouldn’t be able to bid behind the screen, if he’s coding an install u have done as unsafe you should be able to ask why and question him on it.
@@corynoahmac if at first u don’t succeed try try and try again. It would be worth it just to give u peace of mind and reassure urself your not going loopy 🤔🤔😉😉😉😉. After all that elec van JORDAN got is as much use as a horse 🐎 and u might of been confused with a 🤠🤠🤠 if u turned up in that ( after a 24 h journey with 5 charging stops) 💦 🦆 🔙
Its the same on alot of sites either people coming straight from a desk not having a scooby or just complete and utter lemons that've been reading too many books
Not an electrician myself, but get the same type of "audit" within the fire/alarm/cctv industry, to say its annoying at times is an understatement, so I can appreciate your frustration with this. Keep up the brilliant video's and great content, its very much appreciated.
They told me to insulate a furnace exhaust pipes one time because it said "vent pipes must be insulated IF they pass through an unconditioned space" But outside is outside, not an "unconditioned space". That's a space that is sealed but not heated. But it's easier to just do it than argue. I circled the IF and "unconditioned space" and told the customer to show him that when he came to inspect my correction. It sucks when that happens.
Can you all appeal en-mase to whoever decides who should get audited? A class action in the OZEV court of appeal as it were. If nobody complains "offically" it'll just continue
Hey. I've been watching a lot of your videos. I would rather hire you guys, rather some random spark (we need some work done). The quality and professionalism that I see is outstanding
With labelling the cable in the box will this creat a fire issue with having flammable items in the fuse box. Sorry for the questions but it just hit me with that
the mcb's, rcd's and main isolator is made of plastic so not an issue, the metal consumer unit is to contain any fire so not an issue and bonding cables should be identified, some people wrongly think this is just that its green and yellow.. This came in with the 18th edition and should probably have been done as you need to identify them to make sure you have continuity without parallel paths so its poor but not exactly the end of the world..
@@steve11211 this is fine if you install said earthing, not if you are adding a circuit. Nothing to do with you as long as there visible bonding you tick the cert and move on.
@@r3co0 Not true, when installing a new circuit you must ensure that the bonding is in place where required, this would be part of that.. If there was no bonding you can't say "I am just installing a new circuit nothing to do with me".. It's part of the upstream supply which you must make sure complies to current regs, just like you would be required to upgrade from 6mm to 10mm... Its a petty point and 99.9% of EICR's would not even bother flagging it up but personally I have pre-printed labels for gas and water bonding so it takes 2 seconds.. But I would say its more just good practice.. But definitely not a fire consideration inside a metal enclosure that is there to contain a fire..
@@steve11211 you've answered your own question. I install charge points every day. If there is visible bonding as gas/water etc I take a photo of said bonding and when completing the certificate I have evidence to prove this fact. I AM NOT required to label a previously installed bonding cable. That is insane.
@@r3co0 Yeah but the point is the bonding cables should be identified, obviously at the water and gas side its obvious, but if you have two 10mm bonding cables in a consumer unit its not clear often which goes where. I don't generally do EV installs but I am a fully qualified electrician and I will have to disagree with you, if the gas bond was 6mm would you think you didnt install it so you dont need to upgrade it? Bonding is something you should check and make sure its to the current regs.. It is petty and I think its insane to get pulled up on it or even give it a C3, but it is the responsibility when installing a new circuit that the bonding is installed to current regs.. Just like if there was no RCD test label on the consumer unit even though you didnt fit the consumer unit you still need to put one on, even if you are not changing the RCD, there is no difference.. It's also bad workmanship to say the last bloke did a shoddy job but its not my problem.. I think it's petty but at the same time I agree it should be done.. Even if you just put a W and a G on the cable, it takes 2 seconds and you have complied, why not do it?
Sounds like someone needs to audit the auditors- because they are obviously quite incompetent at their job... I would be getting together with the other elecs that got these ridiculous checks and get the auditing company to back up EVERY single claim- or get shut down...
At 12:25, here in Brazil people put numbering on the cables to know which cable goes where, so some installers can see a potential issue and know which MCB is attached to which circuit (useless if you have the right equipment/common sense, but good practice), the numbered plastic pieces clip onto the cable and stay latched
Well, the UA-cam button on the back of your filming booth would be a code 2. It is neither labelled multiple times as being a button, nor is it secured against premature collapse! 😁 Well done video and the build of the booth really pays off in my opinion, the shots look great!!!!
Serious Cory mode engaged. Good job you are extremely competent and experienced, and this should be water off a ducks back. There probably are a load of incompetent muppets slinging in chargers that do need pulling up though, so there is a role for auditing, and fingers crossed the audit quality will improve.
Firstly, how are you supposed to be able to compete if the playing field isn’t level? Secondly only the cleats in the area of the escape route (if any) need to be done?
Obviously regulations here in Denmark are quite different, but auditors here are licensed by the local government or the state, depending on what line of work they have to audit, and you have to pass a (fairly easy) test to get the auditing license. But, when they do the auditing, these days any and all faults they find must be backed up by photographic evidence. If they can't prove their statements, then the entire audit is invalid and must be redone, and we have an appeal process for nearly everything here (though it's not brilliant and quite often it ends up being evaluated by the same people that did the audit). Unfortunately the random audit process we're supposed to have, doesn't really exist because installers are not required to report what they do unless they touch the main supply, so it's only if a particular electrician is suspected of doing a bad job it'll get audited. That said, if any work an electrician (or any other trade) does turns out to be faulty, they are 100% liable for it can be fined if it's a serious violation, and even lose their license if it's really bad. If the worst happens and someone dies due to their sloppy work, they can be charged with murder. These days where everyone have a camera in their pocket, it's quite common to take pictures of everything you do, as prove you've done it properly. That way you're also able to prove it wasn't your fault when the customer fiddles with your work and break something
I live in Canada. I have a multiple mains panels. Everything is labeled with fading labels. Its an older house that has to be at least 40+ years old at the minimum. I have no idea what the mains power switch is. The switches are all black. When the breakers go off because a circuit is overloaded I have to go in and switch them all off and then back on. Sometimes multiple times till the circuit that is off comes back on. I have no idea what I am doing! A nice label would be really awesome! Knowing which switch is the mains would be super helpful.
Personally I wouldn’t of touched nothing like you just did in the video! I would of made a complaint and ask for the auditor to audited or for it to be re audited while being there.
Agree, correcting reported stuff for the sake of it when it's not 'required' sets up a president. Cory's attention to detail aside, setting presidents for no reason will hound you for life.
From the States, I had a city inspector swing by today and check my hardwired EV charger that was installed Friday. He literally just looked at the charger and looked at how it was mounted. Stepped back and said "well, the lights are on, does it charge the car?" And it does charge. He just asked a couple questions about the wire and how it was routed into the basement. He said "I'm sure they got it wired correctly in the breaker box" and that was really it. He never asked to go into the basement to take a look. This was not an audit but I assume my city would be at least a little more concerned and do a better inspection. I mean, we didn't open any panels at all and we didn't even plug in my car which was right there next to the charger.
Only realy recommend to client if they stay in a high lighting strike area . Some insurance companies now want it and there is maps for venerable areas due to claims
Not sure how it works in the UK. Is there the facility for you to submit your point of view on the audit to a moderation body who can examine the audit report, your responses and make a determination ? This would include corrective action for the auditing body if required and to ensure that they meet with minimum requirements of their appointment as auditors.
The only thing I can see relative to impeding fire fighting (and in my opinion it’s ridiculous) is the fire doesn’t necessary have to come from the property in question but externally, as the properties boundary is less then 1m from the neighbouring property. I only know this as a build I’m on at the moment required fire board on the external gable end due to a small section being in close proximity to the boundary. The argument was that the fire could come from the neighbours garage. The only issue with your cable is the clips could melt and the cable sag on the floor, unlikely it would trip a fire fighter up! The guttering above sagging down probably would though.
I’m not a qualified electrician but I am an electronics engineer!! I love watching you guys work as your work ethic is brilliant and with what I know about this I cannot understand their problem? Something smells around here and I’m wondering if the reply’s you gave are the same inspectors!! And why now what about all the installations you guys have done!! So sorry I don’t like Twitter so can’t watch there
This has to be the most ridiculous thing I've seen! Fair play for doing the completely unnecessary remedial work! This is just another reason why I'm happy I don't do EV
It looks as if one of the auditors (SR Electrical Services LTD) directors had something to do with JTL/Unite the union, according to companies house. Something doesn't sit right with me considering they are just a random 15 employee company chosen to help DEKRA Automotive carry out these audits. We got similar codes / issues on one of our installations and we are based in Scotland - cable was clipped a foot of the ground outside and they want metal fire rated clips. Piss take.
If the IET were of any use they would have an authoritative system of inspection. Instead they just keep on adding ever more ludicrous rules to the incomprehensible, ambiguous and self contradictory mess that is the regulations.
My road is a great example of old regs as down the road still has a Bakelite box plus my house until the 2000s had one and according to my mum “curly wiring”
I share your frustration !!!!I am a retired electrical technician ,I have designed and installed three phase breaker boards and carried out three phase installations and single phase installations in commercial industrial and domestic situations .I was part regulated for a time ….my opinion then and even more so now it’s a joke ,a money making scam for organisations /regulators .Why someone who has past all the required exams and have all the qualifications now has to do a course so they know how to install 3 phase supply so they can fit outlets for car charging !So glad to be out of the trade .
I’m a firefighter in Australia. The first thing done at a domestic house fire is to turn off the main switch! The only wiring that worries us is the connection between the street and the main switch. Damaged cables will have tripped before we get there usually FFS. Keep up the good work
The regs mentioned here to do with firefighters aren't about the cables being live. It's about making sure cables aren't going to fall down in the event of a fire (for instance if held by plastic clips that quickly melt) which could entangle anyone still in the building. And the clown doing the auditing here saw that armoured cable, running about ankle height straight along the outside wall, and decided it posed a risk of the clips melting and the cable entangling someone. Ridiculous.
We had code 2's on an industrial site to do remedials on where they claimed the pfc was giving readings of 14 and higher, when tested highest came out at 3.7 all on 10KA breakers in board too
Fascinating video, thank you. A question. A few years ago, we, as private landlords, were required to change a consumer unit following an electrical inspection of a tenanted property. The property was a 1995 build and everything was fine BUT because not ALL cirecuits were RCD protected the regulations were represented to us as requiring a new modern consumer unit. We paid something like £500 for a replacement unit. The original unit was bang up to date in 1995 and still operating fine until it was ripped out and replaced. In this video the regulations are apparently not applied rertrospectively. SO, was we ripped off or was it a genuine problem. Nobody was ever in danger whilst using the older consumer unit and having watched this video I am starting to wonder wether we have been made mugs of ?
Re the use of plastic clips ... if you use metal clips it is likely that the heat on the metal clips will melt the cable insulation and short out the wiring. Also ... the mains electricity (and gas) can be switched off by the fire fighters relatively easily as the main switch and main gas tap are inside the grey wall receptacles shown in the video !!
Lots of the charge points have over voltage detection built in. I'm terms of the EV work most probs covered in the product. Fire clips as you identify unlikely to be an issue but we need them regardless. I guess they have to mention that. I have seen some shocking audits. Terrible ones. Keep on trucking and well done for shinning a light on this
Dont know about the Uk. But here some elecrical regs are retropective, such as having ELCB on some specified circuits. Have had to install a second box due to lack of space for the new breakers etc.
Had an Audit by gas safe many years back . They were adamant my install was below code until I arrived at the job in question to find the home owners cousin had ripped out my boiler install and put in his own replacement without notifying it . Funny day yet nothing was done to the illegal installer
In Canada if you legally have to choose the expensive option but the customer doesn't want it. You walk away or call inspector. You don't do the cheap option anyway. Anything clearly dangerous you have to fix. It an ethics thing.
Thats absolutly ridiculous, I hope you (and the other sparks) complained to the inspectors registration scheme so they can inspect their poor inspecting.
To be fair in an event of a fire and that armoured cable melts, and the clips too. Any local insects below it may fail to be able to pass therefore perishing in the external 1 foot house fire. Please someone think of the insects.
Working with government agencies myself it would appear that the auditor has had a fire put under his/her ass in regards to possibly, why too many of the installs are approved.Told to go back re-audit. This involves picking holes / split hairs without rationality. There is always a need to label everything - see serving suggestion front of a cornflakes packet for those who are unsure how to use - but if you are an electrician needing a label to identify which conductor is what, then it's time for a career change.
Problem is when you are good people look for mistakes ( that are not there)…sometimes the people who make the rules , and try to enforce them are not as good as they think they are .. carry on the way you are .. no one is perfect ( my name is no one haha)…. You work For a top company … keep up your good work …
A good reason and/or maybe the only good reason metal casing would be recommended for the cables outside the property is to protect against wear and tear, protecting against weather effects such as water ingress. But definitely not a trip hazard.
Brilliant video - your knowledge, passion and (entirely justifiable!) outrage shine through. My key question that I'd love to see covered is how will you and all the other sparkies that have been unfairly hit with these erroneous codings fight back? Personally I think the private contractor that did these 'surveys' shouldn't be getting paid by OZEV for starters! Really pleased you raised the issue but this definitely needs challenged.
That exterior cable run is way neater than our domestic charge point install. ( Not done by yourselves. ) Ours must be a C2 as well by the auditors reckoning. We actually had the DNO ( Scottish Power ) out to inspect ours as we are on a looped supply. They had no issues with the install.
I sent them a copy of the best practice guide 4 along with a strongly worded email. The response I got was that it’s an audit and not an EICR? So the audit is referring to wiring regs numbers and using classification codes on a non IET report format? The NIC/ EIC have received 100s of complaints about this audit company and are investigating fully for all its members and are in discussions with OZEV.
When I work in a board adding a circuit I do a quick look over also test continuity on rings if any also check all it tight as if I was in there last week an something starts flickering it was me.
I'm a plumber. I was called out for not putting a stop valve where the water enters the house. I turned the water line through the floor and put a stop valve there... because no-one could operate a valve in a 4 inch crawlspace. I was told that I had to put a valve in, or it would not pass inspection. We had to cut a hole in the floor to put a valve in, as there was no way to access it any other way. Luckily the home owner was on the same page as me, and it didn't cost me a customer. Sometimes the inspectors just lack common sense, and are too "by the book". Those who know, do.... those who are learning , teach... and those who think they know, Inspect.
In my State we only have two building regulations. One, electric has to be inspected to the first means of disconnect, which means everything from the pole to the mast, and down to the meter, main breaker, and grounding rods. Nothing has to be inspected inside the house. Two, the installation of a septic system must be inspected at multiple stages of installation. And that's it. Oh, and when installing solar to be fed back to the grid, the power provider does an inspection to make sure their system is protected before approving the connection.
Dam dude, I wish I had you labelling and doing my electrics because the original installers in a new build and following cowboys do not have half the competency that you do. I had to label the damn thing myself, also a lovely label you got which one is it? (currently using a classic dymo but yours looks better)
Northwest USA electrician here. When I get this level of nonsense "calls" on inspection I either call the inspector's cell directly (they're supposed to provide them here) and make them explain to me what they want and why, or if I can't get ahold of them just resubmit it for inspection and note in the inspection request what they got wrong. I've also definitely left a snarky label on a panel cover for an inspector I could tell was being too lazy to open up and look inside like they're supposed to.
Dekra by any chance 🤣. I've had a few c2 for no fire clips on a cable running 2m along an outside wall below knee height, customers origional dB not being fire rated, condensation present on door of ip dB. I've also had wrong make/model of ev charger, wrong earthing arrangement noted by dekra. I also had no spd installed when it's built into the charger.
I love the video and I'm an electrician myself. One thing :D You've read the label on the mains SAYING ''Switch mains before removing the cover'' and you still removed it without switching the mains OFF! :D I'll be honest, I do that myself but it's hilarious how you've just read it and still didn't do it :D
We bought a property in Lincolnshire, that required some work. A local sparks told us he couldn't do any work unless he changed the plastic consumer units for metal ones. I'm not as green, as I am cabbage looking. He didn't get the job.
I don't like being judged or inspected by box-ticking narcissists. Not do I like being subjected to what are basically protection rackets. That's why I've let all my "cards" expire and have no immediate desire to work in the electrical industry again. The irony being that these organisations are also responsible for the one-day slideshows with open-book tests that are being used to circumvent real training by replacing it with liability transfer.
If bigclive accepts, I accept with my eyes closed lol
Yes, this spiv bureaucracy has driven me from the profession earlier than would otherwise have been the case.
I hate to say it, but hearing stories like this make me thankful for the system we use instead.
It sounds like to me, engerneres who couldn't be a electrician are telling people that the clipboard says the job is done wrong just to justify a pay check.
We have them on some jobs too, but its more or less a construction companys rep rather then being a state appointed moron.
That´s a proper rant.
They do that in the food industry, too.
If someone fails as a butcher, they can always be health inspectors, because they take everyone they possibly can. Nobody wants to do that job just shouting at people every day and leaving very expensive fines and constraints.
You could complain, but if you do, they´ll send someone over to add something to the list and they can shut your business down instantly.
As one of those guys was about to retire, he basically apologized for what he´s done for decades. He tried to be nice in the end. Nice move, but too late.
Perhaps the reason why you need to label them is because not everyone can see colors..... And to make it more idiot proof or something like that or should I say idiot resistant. 😂
You should make a formal complaint about the inspector citing the regulation that doesn't exist.
This seems sufficiently widespread that someone ought to compile a representative sample and confront Ozev about it, pointing out the losses their subcontractors' errors have caused, and OZEV's potential legal liability for costs of unnecessary work dealing with it, as well as reputational damage by informing customers that work is substandard when it isn't.
A FOIA request for the process used to appoint their subcontractors might also be interesting.
Assuming the auditors are known, and are members of a professional body, a complaint to that body is also probably in order.
Good idea. Do you have a trades body on your side for that?
@@tcpnetworks One would hope their respective NICEIC, NAPIT or other approved contractor body would be firmly on their side. Not in bed with EV auditors.
someone hit lawfull masses youtube channel?
Sounds like MOTs for cars. I've had advisories on mine one year, then magically not the next year. A friend of mine who does up cars said its due to the MOT tester. If you get one on the take, they'll make stuff up which magically disappears the next year if its either a different tester or the original tester just doesn't remember what they made up the year before.
I was gonna say FOIA is an American bill but apparently the U.K. has a bill with the exact same name in FOIA 2000.
When the inspector is wrong, they MUST be held accountable. They need to be fined or sacked when they are wrong. When they lie they need to be removed from being an inspector.
Name the inspectors and hold them accountable.
educated at the very least and have the corrections notable. Like if an officer was cited, you could look up the complaints sort of thing.
@@husher5142 I think that the inspector should have sufficient knowledge, training and experience not to make those simple errors.
If the inspector does not. Then why are they an inspector!
When wrong this costs people money. Reputation and livelihood.
We should expect and demand more from our government employees.
@@stevejh69 not necessarily we are all human and learn at different pacing. I could hired 5 different senior network techs and they will all have strength and weaknesses based on their experience.
@@husher5142 Thanks husher. But. There has to be accountability when they are wrong.
This can cause people to be fired. Bills to be not paid.
And being able to walk away without any consequences is unacceptable.
@@stevejh69 100% You cant audit people on work this serious and not be held accountable for the severity of your judgement be it right or wrong without some accountability. It's people's livelihoods at stake. Cory is clearly a competent electrician for what he does. To suggest he isn't safe or careful or thoughtful about his work is ridiculous. No one should be able to just pass judgement on electrical work and attempt to penalise without suffering the same penalty. They should know as understand as much and they expect someone like Cory to know and understand
I had the same problem with my audit of an EV charge point install. I referred all of the C2 C3 and the whole audit report to NICEIC. This is a widespread issue and many contractors have complained to NICEIC who have now taken this up at senior level with OZEV and SRElectrical who did many of the audits. After a while NICEIC came back to me and rebutted all four of the C2s saying they were either invalid or C3s at worst. Many of the other points on the audit were nonsense. It has caused a bit of a shitstorm and I am more worried about reputational damage because the loons doing the audits also write to customer of the install saying there are problems. Really pissed me off but thanks to NICEIC for standing up against this.
glad to hear i had the same drama
If it was my house I'd want to know if there was a chance my electrical installation was defective or dangerous. Customer's house, customer's money = customer needs to know.
@@duplicitouskendoll9402 he is certainly not complaining that people receive a letter is something is below par. It is a massive issue that the inspectors are not good enough.
@@duplicitouskendoll9402 Do you want a letter stating the inspector does not know what colour the line and neutral wires should be?
Too much obsession with codes and getting the right code.
It's more important to list the defects, provide that to the customer and make a recommendation which ones must remediated, and that is determined as to whether there is an electric shock risk or fire risk.
Get the inspector to explain why he said what he said, and to show onsite what he thinks is wrong, Cory please keep up the good work you are one in a million.
he probably wrote the report from his cubicle lol
@@Lewdacris916 I wouldn't be surprised if that was all copy and paste report, and look like all the others
As a full-time electrical inspector, I agree with you fully Cory. Every time I note a defect it has to have an ACTUAL regulation that it relates to, but this takes nit-picking above and beyond anything reasonable.
Is it reasonable to assume the man was ignorant of the work being done and therefore thought all points regarding retrospective and non applicable works were valid?
So your oppinion here is "They are more of guide lines, not rules."?
My Grandad lives in a sheltered accommodation,,and recently he had a radiator put in,,,,1 guy came to put it in....2 guy came to check it had been done appropriately. 3 guy came to check the checker...........
@@JoneKone The IET regulations are NOT law. The Building Regulations are the law.
If you fail to follow IET regulations you can't be prosecuted.
If an accident occurs and someone is injured, then the HSE can come down and take a look at what happened, and they take into consideration the failures to comply with the IET Regs.
reminds me of a free mot test i got done at halfords, it passed but boy did he nitpick the hell out of it.
brake pedal rubber a bit worn and slippery - it was just a little bit worn, not slippery at all.
phone mount on windscreen - every other mot tester just removes it - they had to put it on the mot results.
i chalked this up to that they have to show their superiors that they are scrutining the work and giving it an easy pass so they nitpick and find any fault they can record.
Hi Cory, as a serving firefighters the need to apply metal fixings to a cable located 200mm from the floor is absolute rubbish. The reg was introduced after firefighters died after being entangled in a high level retro fit install. If those original cable clips are going to fail prematurely, there won't be fire crews any where near it! Great work 👏
Thanks!
When I used to do final production test of nuclear medicine instruments, we had a QA inspector who felt he had to find something to write up.
He would spend a half day looking until he found something. We got to where we would leave a loose screw so he could "find" it.
NICEIC "auditors" worked like this in the region I used to work. One of my colleagues was in exactly the same situation: his company always left an easy to locate "noncompliance" for the auditor to write up. The auditor always looked pleased to have been able to tick all the boxes and complete the paperchase and made everyone's day go much more smoothly. "I have to find something" he said, "no installation is perfect." My colleague's favourite was to leave one light cable trailing over the ceiling grid not clipped up on the suspenders, or in one room he'd "forget" to earth the grid. Of course he couldn't include the same fault every time because that would be written up as "issues unrectified, failure to improve"!
This is one reason everyone I worked with used to hate dealing with NICEIC, back in the days before they merged with Elecsa. No idea what they are like today; I'm not in that part of the industry currently, but I'd be interested to know...
@@Dranok1 Probably thinks that he will be out of a job if he keeps finding nothing wrong.
There are people like this everywhere. I worked with a few in the software world. Usually older, close to retirement age types that seemed allergic to enthusiasm. Eventually we learned to leave low hanging fruit for them. One guy, we'll call him Calvin, would always quote 2 or three problems with any software plan we'd put together for some work. So we'd make two or three obvious gaffs, prepare solutions for them in advance, wait until he took a week of being idle to cite them, fix them and get the plan cleared. It became a bit of a joke in the end.
@deang5622 Yes, my father had an audit done a while ago for his taxes. He kept meticulous notes and complied 100%. He got audited, auditor was there 3 days going over everything and and eventually gave my dad some really BS minor couple things that were basically non-issues.. My dad asked him what was wrong with what he did. He said, okay look, my job is to audit stuff and to find things wrong, if I dont find something wrong then it doesn't look good on me. You did extremely well, and anyother time I would never even notes these, but I cant come back with an empty report.
Going forward my dad always left something minor that was somewhat easy to find that wouldnt result in a fine to speed up the process
I hope the person who did the audit see’s this. It seems like they need the feedback so they can learn to do their job properly
I reckon Artisan electrics should audit the auditor and send him/her a report about his audit 😆
It's just an auditor on a power trip. These types have so little power everywhere else and are insecure about it to the point they are now going mad when they get into any positions which has some form of it.
@@migo70 Is it ego or is it more like "I have to find a handful of 'things' to show my boss that I'm working/valuable"?
@@snackentity5709 at the same time not finding faults doesn't mean they're not working. But these will get kicked back and make them look worse to the boss imo
@@migo70 I get that not finding faults doesn't mean they're not working. I'm just trying to imagine the range of possible motives behind the behavior. The place I work has a company-wide auditor that comes in every year and he's real cool and practical. But then we have a customer auditor that comes in when we work on projects for them and he seems nice, but always finds SOMETHING to write down, no matter how inconsequential. He doesn't appear to be power tripping or have a big ego, which is why I'm wondering about other motives like trying to appear diligent and impactful for the boss-man.
Buy yea I agree, if an *astute* boss sees a lot of junk write-ups, they would probably not like that from a reputation perspective.
I exclusively do EICRs for a living, and this sounds like yours was done by someone with no experience (which is fine, experience takes time), but more damningly they weren't working with someone who does have experience in order to learn from them. It's one thing being qualified but you absolutely need time with an experienced tester to really learn the job. There was nothing there worth more than a C3, because as you say, current regs only relate to current installs and if older work met regs at the time of install and are still perfectly serviceable there is no legal requirement to change anything. Plus, you are absolutely not responsible for the entire installation if you come in to add a circuit or change a socket etc., and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. Can't you make an official complaint?
Complain as that will take things to the next level for us to learn from.................;)
no all the reports are exactly the same, its a scam and im withdrawing my olev licence once the last grant has been paid to me
You shouldn't be allowed to do EICR'S without experience of installation work
@@brianwoodruff4891 I guess this isn't an EICR - it's an audit using the EICR as a framework. But otherwise I generally agree although many may not have done install work for a very long time so I'm not an advocate of people having to follow a proscribed route - the test is competence.
Clearly the C2's in this are completely incorrect, they'd be nit-picking to call them C3's.
That's exactly what I was thinking, it sounds like someone fresh out the box reading regs and not understanding what they actually mean. Sometimes a little knowledge is more dangerous than no knowledge.
Whoever did the audit clearly doesn’t have a clue but likes to quotes a few regs to make money and everyone’s life difficult. Let’s face it, the person sat in the ozev office won’t be from an electrical background and will just see the codes that are written and call the job a fail
They eather have Target's for Fails or are just picky jobsworths!
also premature Colaps regs are about indoors!
7:23 - “we don’t offer surge protection; we just do it.”
Absolutely the right attitude. 👍
I think the important thing is you were not fitting a new CU, just adding another circuit. Most of this stuff relates to installing a new CU.
Agreed, based on this auditing example, if you installed an additional socket in say a classroom dado trunking, but the Main Switch located in another building miles away from this classroom isn't labelled "Main Switch" you wouldn't be compliant, complete nonsense
It should be mandatory that the audits are done while the installer is present. Like the yearly NIC EIC assessment, then discussions regarding C1's, 2's and 3's can be had at the time. The last thing a contractor or a customers wants to hear is that an install that cost a lot of money is ' DANGEROUS ' . Things like this can badly damage people's businesses. Another government cash cow 🐄 scam if you ask me
There’s tons of dodgy findings on these audits for a whole bunch of installers I know! We had a finding which I totally disagreed with, I’ve challenged the findings, and they’ve passed off the audit with no further action. Crazy. This is definitely some kind of profiteering exercise for the auditing companies.
This is becoming a common issue with the audits. I even know they have been mixing up sites with other sites and even putting the wrong contractors on the reports I have a sneaky suspicion they have to find something on the audits to justify their job
It is 100% an attempt to justify their existence. It’s also a form of corruption.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Would a good electrician serve in a regulatory body rather than do real work? What do you think? :-)
The work you do is the best I have ever seen there was no CODE 1 or CODE 2 you can see that you care about the work you do Cory keep the good workmanship up 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Jordan should be able to have the inspector meet you on site to discuss his findings and Artisan Electrical should also be able to complain to the inspectors employer. If I was the inspector I would have no problem appearing on your vlog to discuss the issues
This auditing lark is a cash cow really. Everyone has a snout in the "green" trough and everyone wants in on the action.
you think they have to have a certain number of fails to reach a quota ......like traffic wardens have to give out tickets ?
@@memecoinmafia2732 Yes.
The guy inspecting it is either incompetent or never done any electrical work in his life. Or was his 1st day on the job after doing an online course and swallowed the book
He swallowed the wrong book didn’t he
@@MrSeananners12345 well said!
Oh dear! It is ridiculous. I don’t know much behind ev chargers but you are clearly a very well managed company that specialise in EV chargers so how would you mess it up
Nothing wrong with the cable outside, it will not hinder any escape in a fire situation. The code is more about a fire inside a building where cables can be hanging down and firefighters getting entangled and losing their lives, I have been in that situation, and is not a nice thing to happen. I think that the inspector is taking things too far and insulting the memory of those who have been killed shame on him.
What was the code 1?
Atleast we can all be glad that the NICEIC is now building a case to audit the auditors due to a very high number of complaints of incorrect details and classifications.
It stinks of corruption and possibly some contractors that don't know the field they are working in... i too would like to know what the incentive structure is to find issues.. keep us upto date Cory.
👏🏼
I agree with most of what you've said here, bare in mind I'm not an electrician I just enjoy this type of content.
That said at 12:50 you stated if you can't identify by colour you shouldn't be inside the consumer unit. That isn't true. Some electricians are colour blind. There's no law stopping them from being an electrician.
Just pointing this out. Not intended to nit pick or anything. Keep up the great content
I would like to say to Cory, congratulations with maintaining your smile and positive, moderate and frankly superhuman demeanour during your 'rant'. Me, I'd have been hurt, then angry, then steaming.
It's absolute corruption, and I hope that the company who performed this audit and the others you've heard about get publicly shamed.
It's toxic and has no place in British industry.
I'm very tempted to write to my MP which I've only ever done once!
It's not corruption. It's the inspectors justifying their jobs and in turn the inspector's boss happily bean-counting the defects to show his boss, and so on up the chain. Good old British bureaucracy. Plus ca change,........................
You guys need to go to the mgt of OZEV and have a sit down on camera with them about this, and show them what they are reporting on exactly. I would pay to watch that. 👍💲💲
I’ve dealt with auditors now for the last 3 years where I work and I get the feeling that when a company hires another company to audit they always find something to justify them being there and that’s what it’s about they have to find something probably to get paid. Quoting a non existent regulation. What’s that all about? Funny thing is I bet if you looked at their work it would be substandard you tend to find.
What’s your opinion on the points raised in the video? Let us know in the comments below.
What a joke, hope you sent them the bill for wasting your time.
Don't do work where they control you.
I agree with almost everything, but have to say, time mark 18:40 .. having another RCD upstream without a time delay does not make anything 'less safe' just more irritating if it trips in both places, or if you go to the charger only to find it's tripped in the consumer unit. I've come across 3 RCDs in a row before, C3 all the way. Lack of selectivity is sloppy but not dangerous. (With obvious exceptions like a hospital DB with a bank of 30mA RCBOs and an 30mA RCD main switch, for example, where the RCD main switch might trip and take out all the RCBOs feeding medical equipment)
@@waithereivegonetogethelp3240 surely that would be a fault due to double discrimination
I wouldn’t take it personally. The auditors report numbers back to the governing body. If they didn’t find anything wrong, what are they for? Imagine all the UK installs shown as a load of graphs in a presentation, that’s all the “results” showing trends etc. All the auditors are doing is justifying their own existence. Even if you did it 100% right (which it already was) they would still find fault because they have too 👍🏻
Brilliant! Definitely something odd behind these audits, either inexperience or some form of payment for failed installations. Follow the money. This was also riveting, and I suggest should be on prime-time TV. “Code 2, you’re covered in poo” 😜
surely that's a defo code zero - hit the panic button and wait for help to arrive 🤣
Cory as a fire prevention company in ireland that cable clipped is in no way an issue with premature collapse or will affect exit from house in event of fire in my opinion
😁👍🏼
As a retired approved electrician (doesn’t mean very much now I realise!) and after listening and watching your video I would be very happy to have you work on any electrical installation job I have ever worked on during the 35 years of running jobs, weather industrial or domestic. Keep up the good work young man.
Was there no way of being able to get hold of the inspector and give him a call, these job worths needs a talking to
I tried, strangely enough he was unavailable
😂😂😂
They Just shouldn’t be able to bid behind the screen, if he’s coding an install u have done as unsafe you should be able to ask why and question him on it.
@@corynoahmac if at first u don’t succeed try try and try again. It would be worth it just to give u peace of mind and reassure urself your not going loopy 🤔🤔😉😉😉😉. After all that elec van JORDAN got is as much use as a horse 🐎 and u might of been confused with a 🤠🤠🤠 if u turned up in that ( after a 24 h journey with 5 charging stops)
💦 🦆 🔙
@@corynoahmac your a decent chanter 👍👍👍👍👍👏👏👏👏
Its the same on alot of sites either people coming straight from a desk not having a scooby or just complete and utter lemons that've been reading too many books
Not an electrician myself, but get the same type of "audit" within the fire/alarm/cctv industry, to say its annoying at times is an understatement, so I can appreciate your frustration with this. Keep up the brilliant video's and great content, its very much appreciated.
They told me to insulate a furnace exhaust pipes one time because it said "vent pipes must be insulated IF they pass through an unconditioned space"
But outside is outside, not an "unconditioned space". That's a space that is sealed but not heated.
But it's easier to just do it than argue. I circled the IF and "unconditioned space" and told the customer to show him that when he came to inspect my correction.
It sucks when that happens.
Can you all appeal en-mase to whoever decides who should get audited? A class action in the OZEV court of appeal as it were. If nobody complains "offically" it'll just continue
Inspectors love adding their own twists to the code here in America as well.
What on earth is an ozev licence. I fitted my own vehicle charger and Bollox to them. My house my CCU and I’m an electrician
Hey. I've been watching a lot of your videos. I would rather hire you guys, rather some random spark (we need some work done). The quality and professionalism that I see is outstanding
With labelling the cable in the box will this creat a fire issue with having flammable items in the fuse box. Sorry for the questions but it just hit me with that
the mcb's, rcd's and main isolator is made of plastic so not an issue, the metal consumer unit is to contain any fire so not an issue and bonding cables should be identified, some people wrongly think this is just that its green and yellow.. This came in with the 18th edition and should probably have been done as you need to identify them to make sure you have continuity without parallel paths so its poor but not exactly the end of the world..
@@steve11211 this is fine if you install said earthing, not if you are adding a circuit. Nothing to do with you as long as there visible bonding you tick the cert and move on.
@@r3co0 Not true, when installing a new circuit you must ensure that the bonding is in place where required, this would be part of that.. If there was no bonding you can't say "I am just installing a new circuit nothing to do with me".. It's part of the upstream supply which you must make sure complies to current regs, just like you would be required to upgrade from 6mm to 10mm... Its a petty point and 99.9% of EICR's would not even bother flagging it up but personally I have pre-printed labels for gas and water bonding so it takes 2 seconds.. But I would say its more just good practice.. But definitely not a fire consideration inside a metal enclosure that is there to contain a fire..
@@steve11211 you've answered your own question. I install charge points every day. If there is visible bonding as gas/water etc I take a photo of said bonding and when completing the certificate I have evidence to prove this fact. I AM NOT required to label a previously installed bonding cable. That is insane.
@@r3co0 Yeah but the point is the bonding cables should be identified, obviously at the water and gas side its obvious, but if you have two 10mm bonding cables in a consumer unit its not clear often which goes where. I don't generally do EV installs but I am a fully qualified electrician and I will have to disagree with you, if the gas bond was 6mm would you think you didnt install it so you dont need to upgrade it? Bonding is something you should check and make sure its to the current regs.. It is petty and I think its insane to get pulled up on it or even give it a C3, but it is the responsibility when installing a new circuit that the bonding is installed to current regs.. Just like if there was no RCD test label on the consumer unit even though you didnt fit the consumer unit you still need to put one on, even if you are not changing the RCD, there is no difference.. It's also bad workmanship to say the last bloke did a shoddy job but its not my problem.. I think it's petty but at the same time I agree it should be done.. Even if you just put a W and a G on the cable, it takes 2 seconds and you have complied, why not do it?
15:37 - I found an issue: The left and right hands were not clearly marked as LEFT HAND and RIGHT HAND.
Sounds like someone needs to audit the auditors- because they are obviously quite incompetent at their job... I would be getting together with the other elecs that got these ridiculous checks and get the auditing company to back up EVERY single claim- or get shut down...
At 12:25, here in Brazil people put numbering on the cables to know which cable goes where, so some installers can see a potential issue and know which MCB is attached to which circuit (useless if you have the right equipment/common sense, but good practice), the numbered plastic pieces clip onto the cable and stay latched
Well, the UA-cam button on the back of your filming booth would be a code 2. It is neither labelled multiple times as being a button, nor is it secured against premature collapse! 😁
Well done video and the build of the booth really pays off in my opinion, the shots look great!!!!
So can someone explain what the massive red switch with 'on/off' and 'must be isolated' written on it is for? It's very confusing.
Serious Cory mode engaged. Good job you are extremely competent and experienced, and this should be water off a ducks back. There probably are a load of incompetent muppets slinging in chargers that do need pulling up though, so there is a role for auditing, and fingers crossed the audit quality will improve.
Firstly, how are you supposed to be able to compete if the playing field isn’t level? Secondly only the cleats in the area of the escape route (if any) need to be done?
Obviously regulations here in Denmark are quite different, but auditors here are licensed by the local government or the state, depending on what line of work they have to audit, and you have to pass a (fairly easy) test to get the auditing license. But, when they do the auditing, these days any and all faults they find must be backed up by photographic evidence. If they can't prove their statements, then the entire audit is invalid and must be redone, and we have an appeal process for nearly everything here (though it's not brilliant and quite often it ends up being evaluated by the same people that did the audit). Unfortunately the random audit process we're supposed to have, doesn't really exist because installers are not required to report what they do unless they touch the main supply, so it's only if a particular electrician is suspected of doing a bad job it'll get audited. That said, if any work an electrician (or any other trade) does turns out to be faulty, they are 100% liable for it can be fined if it's a serious violation, and even lose their license if it's really bad. If the worst happens and someone dies due to their sloppy work, they can be charged with murder. These days where everyone have a camera in their pocket, it's quite common to take pictures of everything you do, as prove you've done it properly. That way you're also able to prove it wasn't your fault when the customer fiddles with your work and break something
I live in Canada. I have a multiple mains panels. Everything is labeled with fading labels. Its an older house that has to be at least 40+ years old at the minimum. I have no idea what the mains power switch is. The switches are all black. When the breakers go off because a circuit is overloaded I have to go in and switch them all off and then back on. Sometimes multiple times till the circuit that is off comes back on. I have no idea what I am doing! A nice label would be really awesome! Knowing which switch is the mains would be super helpful.
Personally I wouldn’t of touched nothing like you just did in the video! I would of made a complaint and ask for the auditor to audited or for it to be re audited while being there.
Agree, correcting reported stuff for the sake of it when it's not 'required' sets up a president. Cory's attention to detail aside, setting presidents for no reason will hound you for life.
It‘s actually „would‘ve“ like in „would have“. Sorry about the quotation marks.
From the States, I had a city inspector swing by today and check my hardwired EV charger that was installed Friday. He literally just looked at the charger and looked at how it was mounted. Stepped back and said "well, the lights are on, does it charge the car?" And it does charge. He just asked a couple questions about the wire and how it was routed into the basement. He said "I'm sure they got it wired correctly in the breaker box" and that was really it. He never asked to go into the basement to take a look.
This was not an audit but I assume my city would be at least a little more concerned and do a better inspection. I mean, we didn't open any panels at all and we didn't even plug in my car which was right there next to the charger.
Surge is to protect against transient voltages……not over current. But i do agree it isn’t a requirement if the client doesn’t want it
Only realy recommend to client if they stay in a high lighting strike area . Some insurance companies now want it and there is maps for venerable areas due to claims
Not sure how it works in the UK. Is there the facility for you to submit your point of view on the audit to a moderation body who can examine the audit report, your responses and make a determination ? This would include corrective action for the auditing body if required and to ensure that they meet with minimum requirements of their appointment as auditors.
The only thing I can see relative to impeding fire fighting (and in my opinion it’s ridiculous) is the fire doesn’t necessary have to come from the property in question but externally, as the properties boundary is less then 1m from the neighbouring property.
I only know this as a build I’m on at the moment required fire board on the external gable end due to a small section being in close proximity to the boundary. The argument was that the fire could come from the neighbours garage.
The only issue with your cable is the clips could melt and the cable sag on the floor, unlikely it would trip a fire fighter up! The guttering above sagging down probably would though.
I’m not a qualified electrician but I am an electronics engineer!! I love watching you guys work as your work ethic is brilliant and with what I know about this I cannot understand their problem? Something smells around here and I’m wondering if the reply’s you gave are the same inspectors!! And why now what about all the installations you guys have done!! So sorry I don’t like Twitter so can’t watch there
And the things they pulled you up on hardly even justify a C3 let alone the C1 and C2 they coded it as.
This has to be the most ridiculous thing I've seen! Fair play for doing the completely unnecessary remedial work! This is just another reason why I'm happy I don't do EV
Who is auditing the auditors!? at this level of stretching and misquoting regs I would expect NICIET/NAPIT or even the IET to step in!
It looks as if one of the auditors (SR Electrical Services LTD) directors had something to do with JTL/Unite the union, according to companies house. Something doesn't sit right with me considering they are just a random 15 employee company chosen to help DEKRA Automotive carry out these audits. We got similar codes / issues on one of our installations and we are based in Scotland - cable was clipped a foot of the ground outside and they want metal fire rated clips. Piss take.
If the IET were of any use they would have an authoritative system of inspection. Instead they just keep on adding ever more ludicrous rules to the incomprehensible, ambiguous and self contradictory mess that is the regulations.
@@jamieh8667 same for me mate, absolute bollocks
My road is a great example of old regs as down the road still has a Bakelite box plus my house until the 2000s had one and according to my mum “curly wiring”
I share your frustration !!!!I am a retired electrical technician ,I have designed and installed three phase breaker boards and carried out three phase installations and single phase installations in commercial industrial and domestic situations .I was part regulated for a time ….my opinion then and even more so now it’s a joke ,a money making scam for organisations /regulators .Why someone who has past all the required exams and have all the qualifications now has to do a course so they know how to install 3 phase supply so they can fit outlets for car charging !So glad to be out of the trade .
What was the C1 ?
When my ev charger was installed he never came into the house he never went near my consumer unit so I do not understand this is my ev charge wrong?
my breakers are labeled on the outside of the cover that protects the busbar been touched .no fuses are labeled directly onto the breakers
Is the cameraman cllicking a pen constantly during the video? and if not what on earth is that sound, its drivng me mental haha
I’m a firefighter in Australia. The first thing done at a domestic house fire is to turn off the main switch! The only wiring that worries us is the connection between the street and the main switch. Damaged cables will have tripped before we get there usually FFS. Keep up the good work
The regs mentioned here to do with firefighters aren't about the cables being live. It's about making sure cables aren't going to fall down in the event of a fire (for instance if held by plastic clips that quickly melt) which could entangle anyone still in the building. And the clown doing the auditing here saw that armoured cable, running about ankle height straight along the outside wall, and decided it posed a risk of the clips melting and the cable entangling someone. Ridiculous.
@@Mattja1 especialy when the only place that would be a reasonebel risk is at the door wher the cabel is under a lip presented by the door sil.
We had code 2's on an industrial site to do remedials on where they claimed the pfc was giving readings of 14 and higher, when tested highest came out at 3.7 all on 10KA breakers in board too
Fascinating video, thank you. A question. A few years ago, we, as private landlords, were required to change a consumer unit following an electrical inspection of a tenanted property. The property was a 1995 build and everything was fine BUT because not ALL cirecuits were RCD protected the regulations were represented to us as requiring a new modern consumer unit. We paid something like £500 for a replacement unit. The original unit was bang up to date in 1995 and still operating fine until it was ripped out and replaced. In this video the regulations are apparently not applied rertrospectively. SO, was we ripped off or was it a genuine problem. Nobody was ever in danger whilst using the older consumer unit and having watched this video I am starting to wonder wether we have been made mugs of ?
I want to hear Jordan’s view on this.
Re the use of plastic clips ... if you use metal clips it is likely that the heat on the metal clips will melt the cable insulation and short out the wiring.
Also ... the mains electricity (and gas) can be switched off by the fire fighters relatively easily as the main switch and main gas tap are inside the grey wall receptacles shown in the video !!
Lots of the charge points have over voltage detection built in. I'm terms of the EV work most probs covered in the product.
Fire clips as you identify unlikely to be an issue but we need them regardless. I guess they have to mention that. I have seen some shocking audits. Terrible ones.
Keep on trucking and well done for shinning a light on this
Dont know about the Uk. But here some elecrical regs are retropective, such as having ELCB on some specified circuits. Have had to install a second box due to lack of space for the new breakers etc.
Had an Audit by gas safe many years back . They were adamant my install was below code until I arrived at the job in question to find the home owners cousin had ripped out my boiler install and put in his own replacement without notifying it . Funny day yet nothing was done to the illegal installer
In Canada if you legally have to choose the expensive option but the customer doesn't want it. You walk away or call inspector. You don't do the cheap option anyway. Anything clearly dangerous you have to fix. It an ethics thing.
Regarding that min switch label - You didn't do anything with the main switch, why do the auditors make you fix the past installers problem?
Thats absolutly ridiculous, I hope you (and the other sparks) complained to the inspectors registration scheme so they can inspect their poor inspecting.
To be fair in an event of a fire and that armoured cable melts, and the clips too. Any local insects below it may fail to be able to pass therefore perishing in the external 1 foot house fire. Please someone think of the insects.
Working with government agencies myself it would appear that the auditor has had a fire put under his/her ass in regards to possibly, why too many of the installs are approved.Told to go back re-audit. This involves picking holes / split hairs without rationality. There is always a need to label everything - see serving suggestion front of a cornflakes packet for those who are unsure how to use - but if you are an electrician needing a label to identify which conductor is what, then it's time for a career change.
Problem is when you are good people look for mistakes ( that are not there)…sometimes the people who make the rules , and try to enforce them are not as good as they think they are .. carry on the way you are .. no one is perfect ( my name is no one haha)…. You work
For a top company … keep up your good work …
question: send the sheet to the NIC, you pay em enough, what have they got to say on the findings....
A good reason and/or maybe the only good reason metal casing would be recommended for the cables outside the property is to protect against wear and tear, protecting against weather effects such as water ingress. But definitely not a trip hazard.
Once again great video from you lads. Where's the linian clips 👀
Should that consumer unit be that low down. Easy for chikdren to access
Brilliant video - your knowledge, passion and (entirely justifiable!) outrage shine through. My key question that I'd love to see covered is how will you and all the other sparkies that have been unfairly hit with these erroneous codings fight back? Personally I think the private contractor that did these 'surveys' shouldn't be getting paid by OZEV for starters! Really pleased you raised the issue but this definitely needs challenged.
That exterior cable run is way neater than our domestic charge point install. ( Not done by yourselves. ) Ours must be a C2 as well by the auditors reckoning. We actually had the DNO ( Scottish Power ) out to inspect ours as we are on a looped supply. They had no issues with the install.
I sent them a copy of the best practice guide 4 along with a strongly worded email. The response I got was that it’s an audit and not an EICR? So the audit is referring to wiring regs numbers and using classification codes on a non IET report format? The NIC/ EIC have received 100s of complaints about this audit company and are investigating fully for all its members and are in discussions with OZEV.
When I work in a board adding a circuit I do a quick look over also test continuity on rings if any also check all it tight as if I was in there last week an something starts flickering it was me.
I'm a plumber. I was called out for not putting a stop valve where the water enters the house. I turned the water line through the floor and put a stop valve there... because no-one could operate a valve in a 4 inch crawlspace. I was told that I had to put a valve in, or it would not pass inspection. We had to cut a hole in the floor to put a valve in, as there was no way to access it any other way. Luckily the home owner was on the same page as me, and it didn't cost me a customer. Sometimes the inspectors just lack common sense, and are too "by the book". Those who know, do.... those who are learning , teach... and those who think they know, Inspect.
service date is like an expirary date, so put when it was serviced at the least so you can work out how long its been since last service.
In my State we only have two building regulations. One, electric has to be inspected to the first means of disconnect, which means everything from the pole to the mast, and down to the meter, main breaker, and grounding rods. Nothing has to be inspected inside the house. Two, the installation of a septic system must be inspected at multiple stages of installation. And that's it. Oh, and when installing solar to be fed back to the grid, the power provider does an inspection to make sure their system is protected before approving the connection.
I am a plumber in Germany... we are ought to put F90 isolation on metal pipes that go through the ceiling... on a property that has F30 ceiling...
Dam dude, I wish I had you labelling and doing my electrics because the original installers in a new build and following cowboys do not have half the competency that you do. I had to label the damn thing myself, also a lovely label you got which one is it? (currently using a classic dymo but yours looks better)
Northwest USA electrician here. When I get this level of nonsense "calls" on inspection I either call the inspector's cell directly (they're supposed to provide them here) and make them explain to me what they want and why, or if I can't get ahold of them just resubmit it for inspection and note in the inspection request what they got wrong.
I've also definitely left a snarky label on a panel cover for an inspector I could tell was being too lazy to open up and look inside like they're supposed to.
Dekra by any chance 🤣. I've had a few c2 for no fire clips on a cable running 2m along an outside wall below knee height, customers origional dB not being fire rated, condensation present on door of ip dB. I've also had wrong make/model of ev charger, wrong earthing arrangement noted by dekra. I also had no spd installed when it's built into the charger.
Guess I don't quite understand all of it.. but can't your company call the inspector and ask why incorrect reg's are being applied to the work..
I love the video and I'm an electrician myself. One thing :D You've read the label on the mains SAYING ''Switch mains before removing the cover'' and you still removed it without switching the mains OFF! :D I'll be honest, I do that myself but it's hilarious how you've just read it and still didn't do it :D
We bought a property in Lincolnshire, that required some work. A local sparks told us he couldn't do any work unless he changed the plastic consumer units for metal ones. I'm not as green, as I am cabbage looking. He didn't get the job.