Sadly, many of the main bigger channels won’t mention Campagnolo, because they have Shimano as “sponsorship partners”. It’s sad, but big money is taking over and leading the market. So yes, especially with the release of a super expensive Di2 only, disc only, 105 this week, we need independent journalists like Dave, more and more.
Only started riding road bikes in 2017, so I'm no traditionalist, but I'm very firmly in the mechanical camp. I cycle to get away from the world of electronics that dominates the rest of my life. Luckily I got in just in time to have both Dura Ace and Ultegra mechanical gear sets. I will now need to look after them well and make them last!
Exactly same here, have mechanical Ultegra, and use an OS map when somewhere new....not a gps on the bars, cycling is refreshing in its simplicity in my view electronics take this away ,( for me at least, each to their own I guess)
I've been riding campy for 22 years. It is always good. I'm looking forward to installing my new 12 speed record Groupset. I'm mostly afraid of failing wiring harnesses on the electronic setups. 5 years from now, what happens when something breaks
I’ve recently done a nice alloy build with campagnolo centaur , I enjoy riding it more than my DA Di2 and also dumped my wahoo head unit, by losing the electrical BS I feel my riding has improved
Thank you for the excellent review . Just came across it. I just built a Pinarello Prince with a 12 speed Campy Chorus and I love the way it came out. Quite an atypical built but I am happy I did it. And yes.. Italian frame with Italian groups set/ wheels was important to me
Being use to campy I prefer the levers, it's intuative in that the chain moves the same direction as the levers. My brain is campy trained and shifting with shimano sometimes I will up shift when I want to down shift. After 20 years my brain automatically thinks campy. The campy 10 speed seemed as good as you could get and it is dependable and could work for a decade with just replacing a cassette and a few chains and a bottom bracket. Campy chains even last a long time. That's my experience.
still use mechanical campagnolo, i have raced for over 30 years never had a snapped gear or brake cable ever, and mechanical is easier to install and service
I've been riding about as long as I and I've had the same experience. I also regularly check my cables and change them when needed. I have electronic on my road bike and have had it a couple of years now. I honestly don't miss it when I ride my gravel bike which has mechanical. I personally think electronic is about the most over rated thing in cycling.
Been riding Campagnolo for 30+ years...Nothing else brings me more pleasure on a bike than riding my Colnago C-60 w/Campag SR mechanical and rim brakes! Mechanical gruppo's should be around for a long time to come.
Another great topic very well covered David! I've only got mechanical on my bikes but on a cycling trip to Majorca I rented a Di2 bike to see if it really was for me. I started out craving the Di2 system but after a week I gladly went back to my mechanical bike. The Di2 was fantastic, crisp change under full load where on the mechanical I'd be easing off a touch. But that's the point, the mechanical (for me) is more tactile, more involving, more alive whereas the Di2 felt detached, perfect changes but a lesser experience. So for me I enjoy mechanical more for the experience and I'll probably stay mechanical but the attraction of having the top tier groupset might be too great in a few years time to ignore electronic.
Di2 is fine, it's just the cost I object to. I'd happily have brought Ultegra Di2 but the price difference was huge, I bought Mechanical instead which meant I could upgrade the wheels, which is a pound for pound better value upgrade
Title should be whats the most amount of money can we scam off the consumers instead 😂😂😂 obviously di2 is the answer where majority of consumers don’t really need to.
Whether you want to run mechanical or not, Campag is incredibly well made and robust. I'm running Record from 2001, original 10spd. The shifting is as good as, if not better, than R7000 105 on my 'main' bike.
I just moved my road bike to Campy 12-speed Chorus (from 10-speed Chorus) and it seems to be bullet-proof. I'm having a custom gravel bike made now and I'm seriously considering using Chorus 12-speed on it too...especially now that Campy has a 48-32 crankset available for this group. Admittedly, I've been riding Campy for decades and I just have so much shifting muscle memory already etched into my cycling brain that switching to something different seems nutty. Also, I think the ergonomics of Campy's (Campag's for you UK folks) hoods is excellent.
The thing David missed which is perhaps the best thing about Campag is multishift! Like... how... did he miss it?! Its been an individuating feature of campy for more than 20 yeears. You can shift up to 5 gears down with the thumb lever in one sweep or 3 up the cassette with the paddle. This gives you a huge amount of control to navigate across the cassette very quickly. Its extremely handy for commuting (stop/start riding) and responding to or launching attacks in bunch rides or racing. You cant multishift with electronic groupsets as fast as with mech campy. Long live mech campy groupsets cause they are the best.
I hope Campagnolo is going to do well going forward. I have two bikes, one with Campagnolo mechanical 12 speed and one with Shimano mechanical (disc brakes). From my point of view Shimano is not in the same league as Campagnolo. The delayed shifting on the rear (it only shifts once the shift paddle has returned to its start point), the overly light 'wishy-washy' action of the shifters, the flimsy build quality, I could go on.. It would be nice if more manufacturers would spec it as OEM equipment to make it more widespread, and to enable more people to enjoy it.
I transitioned to Campagnolo from Dura Ace after trying out my wife's newly acquired used bike. The Campagnolo has a precise deliberate shift. This occurs even under load. The Dura Ace was smooth, but the transition was less precise, and balked under heavy pressure. For front derailleur shifting, Campagnolo requires little effort and transitions very quickly. Further, Campagnolo Record and Super Record have upshifting up to 5 cogs in a single depression of the thumb lever. For downshifting, it rapidly jumps by 3 (same as Shimano). With Shimano, when dropping to the small front chainring, I peddle like a motorized rabbit until I can upshift in the rear one at a time. However, with Campagnolo, the multiple-upshift feature of the rear cassette means little time disruption when dropping to the small chain ring in front.
As an old curmudgeon, used to top end Shimano and Sram mechanical systems the last 30 years, I was generally quite satisfied with them; however, going back to the 70s and 80s, when Campy was the envy of everyone who couldn't afford it, I now have an excuse to go Campy with my next bicycle purchase (perhaps my last, frankly, given creeping age issues). I'm on the waiting list for purchase of a Richard Sachs custom steel road bike, spec'd with Campagnolo Super Record (mechanical). I finally get to purchase the bike and gruppo I lusted for 30 to 40 years ago. Nice youtube presentation!
Thanks for an excellent review David. Covers all the points and then some. I think this groupset will definitely be on my next bike upgrade. Currently using a 20yo version of Campy Chorus/Veloce on an old Pinarello Angliru and, apart from a broken rear barrel adjuster (my fault), the group has and still does work flawlessly with minimal maintenance. I love the ergonomics of the Campag rimbrake hoods, just perfection.
Long time Shimano user and was in the market for an upgrade group set for my Seven, which is not DI2 compatible and rim brake. Didn’t even consider Campagnolo until I watched your video. Will be switching over to Campy Chorus in the near future. Thanks so much David! Keep up the great videos…
Another solid discussion, David. Thank you. Personally I think there should be a place for mechanical and electronic, disc and rim brake options for groupsets. Not bothered that the very top-end e.g. Dura-ace, Red, etc is going the way of electronic, but there should always be the option for tiers under that. I run Ultegra mechanical (with Dura--Ace components) and GRX mechanical on my gravel bike. Both are superb. I gotta say that Chorus groupset offset on that Basso frameset looks glorious!!!
Very happy with my Record 12 disc. Just works, looks great, disc brakes are the best in the business (thanks to collaboration with Magura). At the entry level the 11sp Centaur is fantastic value for money and a great competitor for 105 - and as it’s made in Europe none of the availability problems that are currently plaguing Shimano and SRAM.
Been riding Campagnolo from 1988 . Started at 7 SPD synchro . Didn't go to Ergopower till 9 speed . A joy to not have to all most lean over to shift on down tube, and after 50 miles . You all remember. Haven't ridden 12 SPD .my 11 SPD is smooth and persice . I ride on hoods with bars low . On my 105 bike on drops the finger reach . I On campy I can pull down shifter close to easy shift. Be safe all !!!
I have 12 speed super record on my colnago arabesque and its lovely,it will be with me forever.I also have di2 dura ace on another bike but campag for me all day long.
Campy seems to be one of the last mechanical options. I LOVE both Chorus and Record groupsets. They work flawlessly, every time. I love the rim brakes, and hope they never abandon mechanical with rim brakes for their entire line.
With the 105 Di2 release this week (and it’s associated inflated costs and weighs), this video is more relevant than ever. Suddenly campagnolo is looking very price competitive.
I also found that Campagnolo became a quite attractive alternative not only to 105 Di2. Here in Taiwan, Shimano raised prices during COVID, the Shimano 105 Dual Control Levers became 20% more expensive. For 20 Euros more I could get Campagnolo Chorus Ultra-Shift Ergopower 2x12-speed.
I barely remember my name, impossible for me to remember to charge the batteries of the groupset... Great technology but definitely not for me, I need simplicity. Thanks for the vid.
I prefer the ergonomics of the long-time and unchanged Campagnolo brake / gear levers. It's very logical if you know how a derailleur works. With the Ergonomic levers: Press the right hand thumb button down and the chain drops a sprocket. Do the same with the left hand lever and it drops a chairing. Similarly, press the right inner brake lever to the left and it climbs a sprocket with the chain moving to the left. Press the left hand inner lever to the right and the chain climbs a chaining: moving the chain to the right. I've never liked the Campagnolo crank sets as they have non-standard bolt centers and their triple set inner rings aren't small enough. So I use an FSA carbon triple with a 24t inner ring. I use the middle 38t most of the time. When I need a higher gear than the top sprocket - middle ring - (overdrive) , I click up 3 sprockets in one action and slightly after climb a chain ring. This is easy as it's the same action with both hands. If the big sprocket in the middle ring is too hard, I press the left thumb button down and then press the right hand button down 3 clicks, again all in one action. With 53 38 24 chain rings and an 11 - 28 to 11 - 34 cassette these are near enough the next gear in the sequence. I've managed to convert the latest Chorus left hand lever to operate a triple by replacing the ratchet ring with a pre-2015 series one from a Record lever. This gives extra clicks and hence extra cable travel to move the front changer further. I know I could "program" this into an electronic set-up but don't want: the weight, non-roadside repair ability, cost and monitoring / charging of batteries.
I run Shimano on my indoor setup, and Campagnolo on the road. I don’t agree with you on Campag being less intuitive. It is just as easy to operate as Shimano. On top of that it performs perfectly and tops Shimano and SRAM on style and x-factor. If Price not an issue, I have no doubt: Campagnolo is my favorite.
+1! Usually i am opreating a 2007 Gios A90 racing bike which was originally completed with a 2006 Chorus groupset. It was working absolutely perfect all the time. 18 months ago I replaced the groupset by a 2020 Chorus set, not because the former one had got any flaws: the reason was simply my request for smaller chainrings from 53/39 to 50/34 - I'm 65 years old by now. The old Chorus components still look and feel very good, in spite of a long and busy lifetime.
Great video. I’m very envious of all the amazing bikes you get to ride. Regarding mechanical VS electronic, I am very spoiled and I just love the feel and ease of electronic shifting. I am currently running SRAM AXS Force. Cheers. Keep up the great work.
My new bike came with Sram Force wireless shifting. No problem with it at all, but imo it is a lot of extra money and a lot of additional weight for no real meaningful benefit.
Thanks David, I was pretty annoyed with Shimano deciding to get rid of mechanical in the top end So l was only just looking at Chorus and record as a option on my new bike great review as always. 👍😊
An excellent video - there will always be room for high-end mechanical group sets - and I’m also just awaiting delivery of my 12 speed Chorus equipped bike!
Never had a cable snap in any of my 30 rental mountainbikes. It just doesn't happen compared to other issues. Nor did i have any roadbiker coming to my café with an issue like that. Most issues they have is punctured tyres(i always have spares and a compressor downstairs) followed by chainlink failures and brake issues. (I have some brake pads but not all variants. I can also bleed their system if it's mineral based) I'd say 75% of the roadies that have an issue can have it fixed while eating a sandwich. If not they need a specialized bike shop or specific parts. Then broke derailleur hangars. Which is usualy followed getting a taxi. Since the hangars are frame specific meaning i can't help them regardless of spare time.
I used Di2 for three years, but found it a bit soulless. I have now had Chorus 12 rim on my Seven since last year and it's been wonderful. I have another Chorus 12 rim group sitting in my parts cupboard ready for a frame that's currently being built. It's good value for money IMO and the consumables last for a very, very long time. My cassette has 7500+km on it and it's still shifting really nicely and looks brand new. The shifters are incredibly comfortable, the gear range on the 32t cassette is really nice but the reason I like it most is it's tactile feel. You can really feel the shifts, they happen with a wonderful clunk that just isn't present on Shimano groups and I really like that. It's also the fastest shifting groupset I've ever used. I can dump the cassette from the 32t sprocket to the 11t sprocket in the blink of an eye. It's so much faster than electronic groups it's not even true.
My Shimano cassette is 21.000km and still shifting perfectly. Battery charged once 6 weeks, when I'm back home.I like feeling just pressing the button and gear changed.
I'm old enough to remember Sram Grip Shift system. I don't think I can ever bring myself to ride Sram. I know Shimano is a very sensible choice, but Campagnolo all day long for this old timer.
My Colnago V1r is in shop having Super Record mechanical installed. The 2014 11sp Record coming off is being rebuilt on to my C40. Most reliable mechanical groupset, and you’d want to keep it. Doesn’t age. Don’t feel the benefits of electronic will make me a better rider. Nice for those prepared to pay the substantial premium for it
Will continue to buy mechanical groupset a that’s how I now only ride campagnolo Also not everyone at shops are tech savvy amd I’ve had 5 shops already unable to set shit up …and I’ve now learned how to both set up axs and di2 properly Keep up the good work campagnolo
here's my problem with electronic shifting - I don't want anything contributing to the powering of the bike except myself. Nothing. Batteries have to be charged and ultimately die, apps and settings and firmware goes bad, has glitches or becomes un-supported. Cable operated derailleurs have only been getting better and better - and all you need to replace is a cheap cable if yours stretches too much. AND non-electronic components are cheaper. I am more than happy with my GRX 800 stuff. Sorry I can't be excited about this new HIGH END hype over Etap or Di2 - its not for me. and I hope that the option will always be out there to NOT use them - if I have to got o Campy I will !!
@@gaza4543 There's always going to be a niche for mechanical, and I'd say, a much larger niche than electronic. The future of cycling industry is in daily use bikes, not high end elitist bullshit components. More people on this planet still buy low end phones than even mid tier smartphones. This all the case, if Shimano/SRAM abandon mechanical, someone else will take it up. Way too much money to be made not to.
Here here. E bikes are for cheaters or old people who don’t have the power to ride unassisted in which case I think they’re good. However if you’re able bodied you should ride a ‘manual’ bike. Re gears; batteries die, one more thing to go wrong. I’ll stick with old skool tech thanks. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it 🥸
@@LiamHaHaX fair point I guess, I just think if you’re able to ride a regular bike then the physical challenge should be embraced. I think e bikes are great for older people or people who would normally struggle to ride an ‘old skool’ bike. I guess you’re right though it’s ultimately about fun innit 🤷🏻♂️
I bought a full carbon bike back in 2016 which came with a Shimano groupset. I changed to Campagnolo 11 speed Record. I've always ridden with Campagnolo and still have 10 speed on my other bike. Can't fault it at all. I've always ridden with mechanical rim brake groupsets and won't be changing anytime soon
Haven't moved to electronic shifting systems. I think if people demand mech shifting then the manufacturers will continue to make them for years to come. It is true that disc brakes have taken over rim brakes and rim brake bikes might only be offered on cheaper bikes in a few years. I've used all the three major manufacturers group sets since the 1980's. They all have their respective merits. You do realize that you must put a Campy groupset on an Italian frameset. Anything else is sacrilege!
Hi David, I think the introduction of electronic systems are not just sales driven, but a technology that seems like it’s being shoved down our throats. It is also taking away choice from the consumer…disc brakes are another example. I have Dura-Ace electronic on my aero bike and Dura-Ace mechanical on my climbing bike (for light weight) and like them both, but they were bought at a time that I could choose which system I wanted to go for. At this rate, that choice is disappearing fast. Cheers mate!
don't worry this way once electronic is the norm every new set that comes out - you'll have to buy new stuff - over and over! can't have people using groupsets for more than a few years! >______>
You don't need to buy them though, Dura Ace is not the only groupset Shimano has. And if there is a profitable market for mechanical groupsets after electronic takes over, a company will take that market and profit from it. Not everyone buys top-end groupsets, and not many actually need it.
The most interesting new launch for next year will be Shimano 105. What will be the future for the "groupset of the people"? I bet that Shimano will keep it mechanical.
Man with the price of shimano now, campy is looking pretty good value! I’m happy with my 11spd Ultegra di2, looks like the same levers and brakes for the rim brake version so I can’t see the point of upgrading
The Italians have been creating outstanding 'style' in many industries. Campagnolo has been doing that in the bicycle industry for a many decades. Campagnolo has always produced dependable components. Being dependable has been a major component in their design,. Not dead last behind cost, profit, and sell ability like other manufacturers. Electronic shifting isn't and won't be on my purchase list. I am not a pro-rider and the mille-seconds won't matter in my shifting. A battery always wears down and needs to be recharged to work every time. I can depend on my fingers more than batteries. I could go back to a friction down tube shifter and do better than a lot of riders on their 'index' shifters. You learn and get familiar with the Campagnolo design and method, you appreciate the thoroughness in their designs.
I have Campagnolo Super Record 12 speed mechanical and love the group set! I work on my own bikes and dialing shifting as needed as not a concern. However, the one big issue I hate dealing with is replacing cables on internal routing. That alone makes me want to switch over to electronic....
I can see electric taking over for a bit at the top end then a reemergence of mechanical. Jut look a the sports car market. 10 - 15 years ago everyone was buying a Porsches with the auto PDK double clutch, a higher performing more efficient system. Now Porsche buyers want manuals to the point they command a big premium on the second hand market. They are in demand for that more connected visceral experience. Yes there may be a slight performance gain for electric gears, but why do 99.99% of us ride our bikes ? Unless you are a world tour or pro conti pro, how much do these performance gains matter vs the enjoyment of the bike.
@@acewilliams7917 Considering nearly all professional athletes ride electronic shifting that's just an ridiculous statement. It has it's benefits. And some cons. most notably the costs for very vulnereable parts. If you fall the first things you'd break are the brake levers and the rear mech.
@@acewilliams7917 The electricity required for shifting is literally nothing compared to the electricity required to make carbon fibre or aluminium parts. Then if it's dark, do you use lights? Well in a week your light will use more electricity then the shifters in several months. Even pedal assist bikes. Which i'd agree with you that in many cases. No in MOST cases. people that use those are just lazy. And people that know me know i can't stand the trend that the spoiled youth of 12-16 years of well off parents use those bikes to go to school 3-5 miles away from home. I completely detest that trend. However they only use 0,5 KW for 50-60 miles. Being more efficient then any other form of power transportation. And by a very significant margin as well. So for older people or longer distance commute. It's a great innovation.
Funny that some prefer Shimano's ergonomics - for me its the opposite, thumb shift down and finger shift up with campagnolo seems intuitive and less likely to confuse than two buttons close together or a swinging brake lever lol!. I always thought ergonomics was Campy's USP. Dumping up to 5 cogs down and 3 up in one go for Campag is also pretty good. Having tried electronic versions of both, yes the EPS is slightly better in terms of consistency of shifting every time, but Shimano's mechanical had significant room for improvemt hence their di2 is a big step up. EPS and DI2 are pretty close. I can understand the move to electronic only for Shimano and Campagnolo keeping high end mechanical options for the purists when it works so well. Only quibble is the long ekar thumb shifter should have been introduced to mech 11s and 12s, as David said.
I have 3 bikes all different set ups! I have Ultegra Di2, SRAM Etap Red and Ultegra mechanical. There is a place for both electrical and mechanical the same as disc and rim brakes, it's a matter of choice.
The most bold statement in this video is the stick-out on that rear derailleur cable. In all seriousness, I'm sticking with my Ultegra r8000 mechanical groupset on my cervelo S3 as long as I can.
Ive been riding and racing for 35 years and definitely a traditionalist. However I’ll be going electronic groupset for the summer race bike, cheaper mechanical for the winter bike that gets dumped in the garage caked in mud after a ride.
David I own mechanical group sets in all 3 brands across 10 & 11 speed. Ergonomics of campy is the most intuitive and most logical by far. I’m not sure what you didn’t like but I much prefer it to SRAM Red and Durace. It must be said that they are all very good by the way. I’m not going electronic any time soon.
I strongly dislike Shimano shift levers. Pushing the entire brake lever through its long throw is irritating as hell. Campagnolo is much better for me.
I hope more brands pick up hydraulic shifting as Rotor has done. It has all of the benefits of mechanical shifting, but is completely frictionless. Brilliant!
Started riding Campagnolo Chorus 2012. Last time I use Shimano 105 had a crash due to failure of hallow Shimano 105 arm. Pedal came off as I was crossing an intersection.
I seriously doubt Shimano is 'abandoning' mechanical groupsets. New 105 is due soon, and I would not be surprised at all to see ultegra mechanical groupsets in a year or so, once the demand for the new 12 speed elecrtonic stuff dies down.
One thing that needs to be mentioned. Unless you buy the higher end bikes with high end electronic shifting. The bike will be heavier by .6-.8 kg. At least for the weight weenies that's a big deal.
For me the comparison isn't whether electronic is better than mechanical but rather its the cost. I have used DA Di2 and its great but it was on a borrowed bike, I can't justify the price but would like a performance groupset.
I have mechanical Ultegra 11 speed, but I am annoyed with very bad ergonomy of hoods and levers. Switching definitely this year to Chorus, but I will keep Rotor crankset. Actually most cyclist change to Campagnolo because of superior ergonomics and dedicated fuctions, not like in Shimano, where you have to be careful with levers while braking or shifting, not to mix up.
I'd love di2 but when it came time to build my bike frame up i knew i couldn't afford dura ace di2 so i easily chose mechanical dura ace over ultegra di2.
I run shimano ultegra mechanical and Campag veloce mechanical and prefer the shifting on the Shimano but the hoods on the Campag are a dream so comfortable.
Love cycling but grew up in public housing and family budget was so tight that I never had any bicycle. Cycling was restricted to 1-2 times overused rental bikes with bottom tier Shimano SIS parts (or worse) in public parks, often causing failed or skipped shifting. Causing me to be fascinated whenever I borrow a cousin’s bike with shifting that actually work well. Fast forward to now, I cycle regularly and also collect bikes, having 3 modern titanium and steel bikes (plus a carbon one for my wife) and looking to acquire a carbon one for myself in the future. Will stick to Campy mechanical groups as still fascinated with mechanical groups that shift flawlessly and I don’t want to keep ensuring 5-6 bikes always have battery power 😂😂😂
David, just a note; The Chorus can be optioned for 48-32 front rings and a 11-34 at the back, that is better than one to one. So pretty easy gears. I don't think SRAM is matching that.
@@waynosfotos Since all of SRAM's 12-speed groupos are interchangeable, you can go 10-44T using XPLR cassettes and Mechs or all the way to 10-52T using Eagle parts if you are so inclined.
@@vomErsten actually, no you can't, because of the 2x tooth capacity. It is not a one (1) by. It would be best to ask SRAM what the tooth capacity is for their AXS 2 by groupsets.
@@waynosfotos Actually yes, you can, because you can use Rival, Force, and RED AXS shifters with an Eagle derailleur no problem. SRAM themselves advertise this cross-compatibility. All current AXS stuff is interoperable. You might have to make a custom size chain if you want to be ultra silly with a 2x12 that goes up to 52T in the rear, but nothing prevents it from functioning.
I ride Shimano Ultegra mechanical on my Bike. for 2 years without even anything adjusting. I was always a Campa man and i guess i will switch back, because i don't need electronic shifting and i don't want a brand dictating me what i should use. I think Shimano is going the wrong way, the future will tell. Thank you for your great review.
Rohloff is offering an electric and electronic shifting option. Unfortunately it only works with a Bosh system at the moment. I'm looking forward to use their speedhub on a tri bike.
I can’t see any reason to “upgrade” from my Campagnolo Super record 11 speed and rim brakes. I prefer the positive feel of mechanical and I have never ridden anything other than Campagnolo. I only recently went to 11 speed, I was kicking it old school with 9 speed for a long time.
The only thinks that i don t like of chorus 12 group set, is the fact than the gear lever are not carbon fiber (like the old model) is in aluminium....but the record has them....Greetings from Caracas....
I'm not opposed to electronic groupsets. But I do feel the up in price is not justified. Also, coming from a job where electronic devices dominate almost my whole day, I don't want yet another gadget that I need to charge and control via an app. And what about those components becoming obsolete? How long will I be able to buy spare parts for a first gen Di2 groupset? A battery for example. How long will I receive firmware updates? What if any electronic component fails on a 5y plus old electronic drivetrain? I'd like to be sure that I can re-use a groupset on for example on my town bike down the line once I upgrade on my top end bike. I wouldn't be confident that that's possible with todays' electronic groupsets. For example, I'm still rocking my 9sp Campag Chorus groupset on my town beater. I put it on an old steel frame and it works flawlessly, despite being 20 years old. Will I be able to do that with Di2 20 years from now?
Live my di2 on my road bike but find for my MTB mechanical works fine and cheaper if I break parts. If I build a gravel bike I'll go for Tiagra 10spd Hydraulic.
Honestly, the cost is just getting insane, so that's my main impetus for not going for a new 12s groupset. The new Ultegra costs $1000 more than the previous groupset. That's a 66% price jump. The previous-generation Shimano mechanical kit was pretty much flawless (crank bonding issues aside), so this switch to 12s and electronic-only just looks like Shimano chasing SRAM's tail, which is sad to see. And while I would like to switch to Campagnolo to force the hand of Shimano/SRAM to maintain high-tier mechanical groupsets, my riding experiences of mechanical Campy groupsets has left a lot to be desired, and if you layer on the lack of availability of parts and proprietary freehubs, it becomes very hard to justify. Honestly I'll probably just start hoarding mechanical groupset parts to try and keep the dream alive as long as possible. Besides, if previous generations are any indication, the new 105 will be as good as the old Dura-Ace mechanical, so not all will be lost.
Do you recommend the older (2x11) dura ace or campagnolo's chorus (2x12) or ekar (1x13)? The condition is road, but there are some cracks and bumps. It's not gravel, but it's enough for the chain to bounce up and down.
My hope would be that Shimano keeps producing their current 11 spd mechanical groupsets at a lower price...there should surely be a demand, but it may canabalize their di2 12 speed sales. I don't have a strong opinion, just want reasonable prices! And more rim brake shifter options, of course.
Shimano are good but Campagnolo is elite it's the Ferrari of components. I never had any issues of mist shifting and I ride mechanical group set 11 speed Record. It's expensive but it's worth it there not throw away Components.
I get that electronic shifting provides an edge for racers in a race and that's all good, but not even Lewis Hamilton drives an F1 car around town. Mechanical shifting is just fine and it is beautiful, really, when paired with fit legs ready to ride through the countryside, shifting all the way. And thanks for your look at this, David, and I am all for shifting choices, just that I personally don't have the dollars to spend on gizmos that scoot the chain to the left and right, and ironically, just yesterday on my commute home, I blew out the cable to the rear derailleur, but no worries, I had to face only one hill which required me to push my bike up it, and I have a fresh cable at the ready, all I need to do is install and cut it to length. And simplicity still counts for a lot and isn't that one of the appeals of cycling? Still, gizmos can be cool and I'm not gonna complain that many riders enjoy pushing buttons to change gears, not unlike, really, the gizmos on fancy mopeds that double and triple the power of a rider. And I grin and truly, I do want an e-bike and the assistance it would provide for commuting. It does get a bit lonely and boring out there, climbing hills all by yourself at night in the countryside, just wanting to get home. And thinking, man, if I had a fancy moped, I'd be there already.
David, your review is a "short term" review. I have a 80s Vitus 979 with DA 7400, a 90s Trek 5500 with DA 7700 and a 2009 Cervelo S3 with DA 7900 - obviously all mechanical. All 3 bikes are race ready and rideable. So if i buy a $2 k
...so if I buy a $12 k Factor Ostro VAM with DA 9200 DI2, I doubt that this will shift 25 years from now - battery will be toast and most likely spare batteries will be impossible to get as there will be 7 DA version in those 25 years. Try to get a 2010 DA 7970 battery today... Wereas my Cervelo S3 with DA 7900 mechanical will still be working.
Personally don't see the advantage of electronic. Upgraded from 105 R7000 to red etap. Yeah it sounds cool and is light, but the shifting performance is nearly the same, if not slightly slower, than 105. After two weeks I sold the groupset and went back to 105
What happens when your battery dies in the middle of nowhere? I guess you ride around with an extra and always monitor battery levels before a ride. Electronic may give great shifting performance but It seems just another marketing feature that allows the overall profit margins to rise. More importantly this kind of tech lets the manufacturers anchor the prices of their entire lineup at a higher level and introduces “performance anxiety” amongst those who can only afford Sora or Tiagra or Apex group sets. I know it’s not exactly the same but I recently converted a nice Magura hydraulic brake system to mechanical because it’s way easier to service, especially in the wild. For similar reasons I’m sticking with inner tubes. How easy is it to fix your own electronic groupset? The bike part makers have begun to emulate the auto industry.
Electronic abs Brakes(will be next) vs that old reliable trustworthy tech of rim brakes and cable is still riding along the side of the tech advances going on and will keep on with just a change of a new cables and pads.
I don't know how I feel about the drop of the mech Ult. I get DA getting the axe, but ultegra i still think that there are plenty of amateurs that want the mech feeling, the compromise of weight compared to DA, and the reasonable price tag. Possibly the new 105 takes the mech Ult place and tiagra becomes 11spd? We will find out all in due time
if i was to buy a new bicycle today i would choose Sram etap wireless. Campagnolo in just 10 years back was my choice as it was almost like having a Ferrari.
Chorus looks fantastic except for that oversized rear derailleur cable - any chance it can be shortened? Saw it on multiple occasions :/ Another Chorus benefit - it is actually in stock ATM, at least on couple main online shops I checked.
Just by a little bit. You don't want an excessively tight radius that could hinder the shift cable's operation. You'll also need to take the derailleur's forward swing (like when it's in large-large cross-chain gearing, the cage and derailleur body will swing forward) into account.
This guy is the epitome of bike related reviews & tests. Why?
Because he does videos that everyone wants but no one dares to do.
RESPECT 🙌👏🏻
😍
Sadly, many of the main bigger channels won’t mention Campagnolo, because they have Shimano as “sponsorship partners”. It’s sad, but big money is taking over and leading the market. So yes, especially with the release of a super expensive Di2 only, disc only, 105 this week, we need independent journalists like Dave, more and more.
Perfect timing on the Chorus - collecting my new build Marosticana running Chorus 12 tomorrow!
Only started riding road bikes in 2017, so I'm no traditionalist, but I'm very firmly in the mechanical camp. I cycle to get away from the world of electronics that dominates the rest of my life. Luckily I got in just in time to have both Dura Ace and Ultegra mechanical gear sets. I will now need to look after them well and make them last!
Exactly same here, have mechanical Ultegra, and use an OS map when somewhere new....not a gps on the bars, cycling is refreshing in its simplicity in my view electronics take this away ,( for me at least, each to their own I guess)
how can you stay away from something you've never tried in your life
@@Dennis4523 When did that person say "stay away" in that persons comment?
I've been riding campy for 22 years. It is always good. I'm looking forward to installing my new 12 speed record Groupset. I'm mostly afraid of failing wiring harnesses on the electronic setups. 5 years from now, what happens when something breaks
@@TboneTenEighties
I’ve recently done a nice alloy build with campagnolo centaur , I enjoy riding it more than my DA Di2 and also dumped my wahoo head unit, by losing the electrical BS I feel my riding has improved
Centaur is a great group - very underrated.
@@SurpriseMeJT I've been riding my Centaur 10 speed for 13 years on my Bianchi. Still works perfectly.
Thank you for the excellent review . Just came across it. I just built a Pinarello Prince with a 12 speed Campy Chorus and I love the way it came out. Quite an atypical built but I am happy I did it. And yes.. Italian frame with Italian groups set/ wheels was important to me
Being use to campy I prefer the levers, it's intuative in that the chain moves the same direction as the levers. My brain is campy trained and shifting with shimano sometimes I will up shift when I want to down shift. After 20 years my brain automatically thinks campy. The campy 10 speed seemed as good as you could get and it is dependable and could work for a decade with just replacing a cassette and a few chains and a bottom bracket. Campy chains even last a long time. That's my experience.
still use mechanical campagnolo, i have raced for over 30 years never had a snapped gear or brake cable ever, and mechanical is easier to install and service
I've been riding about as long as I and I've had the same experience. I also regularly check my cables and change them when needed. I have electronic on my road bike and have had it a couple of years now. I honestly don't miss it when I ride my gravel bike which has mechanical. I personally think electronic is about the most over rated thing in cycling.
Sorry, but wireless electronic is MUCH easier to install.
Mechanical campy for life!!!
@@hail_sagan2830 and there's not much to service either. It just works!
Good on ya mate.
Been riding Campagnolo for 30+ years...Nothing else brings me more pleasure on a bike than riding my Colnago C-60 w/Campag SR mechanical and rim brakes! Mechanical gruppo's should be around for a long time to come.
Another great topic very well covered David!
I've only got mechanical on my bikes but on a cycling trip to Majorca I rented a Di2 bike to see if it really was for me. I started out craving the Di2 system but after a week I gladly went back to my mechanical bike.
The Di2 was fantastic, crisp change under full load where on the mechanical I'd be easing off a touch. But that's the point, the mechanical (for me) is more tactile, more involving, more alive whereas the Di2 felt detached, perfect changes but a lesser experience.
So for me I enjoy mechanical more for the experience and I'll probably stay mechanical but the attraction of having the top tier groupset might be too great in a few years time to ignore electronic.
Sounds like someone talking about driving a manual car vs auto. 😉
@@marcdaniels9079 We call manual transmissions on cars "Millenial anti-theft devices".
Di2 is fine, it's just the cost I object to. I'd happily have brought Ultegra Di2 but the price difference was huge, I bought Mechanical instead which meant I could upgrade the wheels, which is a pound for pound better value upgrade
I did the same thing... Trek Domane SL5 with 105 and then spent the money I saved on Aeolus XXX4 wheels - love them
I ride Di2 and pre-ordered new Di2 bike. Will never go back to mechanical. Unless, I'm on erg-directdrive trainer, where you do not have to shift.
Title should be whats the most amount of money can we scam off the consumers instead 😂😂😂 obviously di2 is the answer where majority of consumers don’t really need to.
@@PhiyackYuh I see that most of cyclist have nothing again electronic shifting, but against the price.
So true !
Whether you want to run mechanical or not, Campag is incredibly well made and robust. I'm running Record from 2001, original 10spd. The shifting is as good as, if not better, than R7000 105 on my 'main' bike.
I just moved my road bike to Campy 12-speed Chorus (from 10-speed Chorus) and it seems to be bullet-proof. I'm having a custom gravel bike made now and I'm seriously considering using Chorus 12-speed on it too...especially now that Campy has a 48-32 crankset available for this group. Admittedly, I've been riding Campy for decades and I just have so much shifting muscle memory already etched into my cycling brain that switching to something different seems nutty. Also, I think the ergonomics of Campy's (Campag's for you UK folks) hoods is excellent.
The thing David missed which is perhaps the best thing about Campag is multishift! Like... how... did he miss it?! Its been an individuating feature of campy for more than 20 yeears. You can shift up to 5 gears down with the thumb lever in one sweep or 3 up the cassette with the paddle. This gives you a huge amount of control to navigate across the cassette very quickly. Its extremely handy for commuting (stop/start riding) and responding to or launching attacks in bunch rides or racing. You cant multishift with electronic groupsets as fast as with mech campy. Long live mech campy groupsets cause they are the best.
I hope Campagnolo is going to do well going forward. I have two bikes, one with Campagnolo mechanical 12 speed and one with Shimano mechanical (disc brakes). From my point of view Shimano is not in the same league as Campagnolo. The delayed shifting on the rear (it only shifts once the shift paddle has returned to its start point), the overly light 'wishy-washy' action of the shifters, the flimsy build quality, I could go on.. It would be nice if more manufacturers would spec it as OEM equipment to make it more widespread, and to enable more people to enjoy it.
I transitioned to Campagnolo from Dura Ace after trying out my wife's newly acquired used bike. The Campagnolo has a precise deliberate shift. This occurs even under load. The Dura Ace was smooth, but the transition was less precise, and balked under heavy pressure. For front derailleur shifting, Campagnolo requires little effort and transitions very quickly. Further, Campagnolo Record and Super Record have upshifting up to 5 cogs in a single depression of the thumb lever. For downshifting, it rapidly jumps by 3 (same as Shimano). With Shimano, when dropping to the small front chainring, I peddle like a motorized rabbit until I can upshift in the rear one at a time. However, with Campagnolo, the multiple-upshift feature of the rear cassette means little time disruption when dropping to the small chain ring in front.
@@sloprun chorus is better than dura ace ?
@@agostonberko In my post, I am referencing Record and Super Record.
Chorus gear ratio's very hill and mountain friendly. It has the option for 48/32 tooth rings and a 11-34 cassette.
Next road build this is what I am going to get.
As an old curmudgeon, used to top end Shimano and Sram mechanical systems the last 30 years, I was generally quite satisfied with them; however, going back to the 70s and 80s, when Campy was the envy of everyone who couldn't afford it, I now have an excuse to go Campy with my next bicycle purchase (perhaps my last, frankly, given creeping age issues). I'm on the waiting list for purchase of a Richard Sachs custom steel road bike, spec'd with Campagnolo Super Record (mechanical). I finally get to purchase the bike and gruppo I lusted for 30 to 40 years ago. Nice youtube presentation!
My Ekar group set is beautiful Dave. It is a work of art. Thank you for the information you provided on this group set.
Glad you like it!
I often go to the gym and do entire Thumb Workouts. My aim to combat the massive effort involved of clicking a mechanical shifter.
Thanks for an excellent review David. Covers all the points and then some. I think this groupset will definitely be on my next bike upgrade. Currently using a 20yo version of Campy Chorus/Veloce on an old Pinarello Angliru and, apart from a broken rear barrel adjuster (my fault), the group has and still does work flawlessly with minimal maintenance. I love the ergonomics of the Campag rimbrake hoods, just perfection.
Long time Shimano user and was in the market for an upgrade group set for my Seven, which is not DI2 compatible and rim brake. Didn’t even consider Campagnolo until I watched your video. Will be switching over to Campy Chorus in the near future. Thanks so much David! Keep up the great videos…
You will not be disappointed. Campagnolo Chorus is the best groupset I've ever ridden and will last you many many miles.
You will love it !
@@erichweggelaar1320 chorus is better than dura ace ?
@agostonberko dura ace, diminished returns on money spent. Great groupset but over capitalisation to 99.9%. Also not the best groupo imo only.
@@erichweggelaar1320 which is best ?
Another solid discussion, David. Thank you. Personally I think there should be a place for mechanical and electronic, disc and rim brake options for groupsets. Not bothered that the very top-end e.g. Dura-ace, Red, etc is going the way of electronic, but there should always be the option for tiers under that. I run Ultegra mechanical (with Dura--Ace components) and GRX mechanical on my gravel bike. Both are superb. I gotta say that Chorus groupset offset on that Basso frameset looks glorious!!!
Very happy with my Record 12 disc. Just works, looks great, disc brakes are the best in the business (thanks to collaboration with Magura). At the entry level the 11sp Centaur is fantastic value for money and a great competitor for 105 - and as it’s made in Europe none of the availability problems that are currently plaguing Shimano and SRAM.
Been riding Campagnolo from 1988 . Started at 7 SPD synchro . Didn't go to Ergopower till 9 speed . A joy to not have to all most lean over to shift on down tube, and after 50 miles . You all remember. Haven't ridden 12 SPD .my 11 SPD is smooth and persice . I ride on hoods with bars low . On my 105 bike on drops the finger reach . I
On campy I can pull down shifter close to easy shift. Be safe all !!!
I have 12 speed super record on my colnago arabesque and its lovely,it will be with me forever.I also have di2 dura ace on another bike but campag for me all day long.
Campy seems to be one of the last mechanical options. I LOVE both Chorus and Record groupsets. They work flawlessly, every time. I love the rim brakes, and hope they never abandon mechanical with rim brakes for their entire line.
Any difference in performance between Chorus and Record??
@@gaeleus mechanical the same,
With the 105 Di2 release this week (and it’s associated inflated costs and weighs), this video is more relevant than ever. Suddenly campagnolo is looking very price competitive.
I also found that Campagnolo became a quite attractive alternative not only to 105 Di2. Here in Taiwan, Shimano raised prices during COVID, the Shimano 105 Dual Control Levers became 20% more expensive. For 20 Euros more I could get Campagnolo Chorus Ultra-Shift Ergopower 2x12-speed.
Absolutely, high end bikes costing more than a motorbike ? The pricing side of electronic is plain stupid, marketing smoke and mirrors.
I barely remember my name, impossible for me to remember to charge the batteries of the groupset... Great technology but definitely not for me, I need simplicity. Thanks for the vid.
I prefer the ergonomics of the long-time and unchanged Campagnolo brake / gear levers. It's very logical if you know how a derailleur works.
With the Ergonomic levers:
Press the right hand thumb button down and the chain drops a sprocket. Do the same with the left hand lever and it drops a chairing.
Similarly, press the right inner brake lever to the left and it climbs a sprocket with the chain moving to the left.
Press the left hand inner lever to the right and the chain climbs a chaining: moving the chain to the right.
I've never liked the Campagnolo crank sets as they have non-standard bolt centers and their triple set inner rings aren't small enough.
So I use an FSA carbon triple with a 24t inner ring.
I use the middle 38t most of the time.
When I need a higher gear than the top sprocket - middle ring - (overdrive) , I click up 3 sprockets in one action and slightly after climb a chain ring.
This is easy as it's the same action with both hands.
If the big sprocket in the middle ring is too hard,
I press the left thumb button down and then press the right hand button down 3 clicks, again all in one action.
With 53 38 24 chain rings and an 11 - 28 to 11 - 34 cassette these are near enough the next gear in the sequence.
I've managed to convert the latest Chorus left hand lever to operate a triple by replacing the ratchet ring with a pre-2015 series one from a Record lever.
This gives extra clicks and hence extra cable travel to move the front changer further.
I know I could "program" this into an electronic set-up but don't want: the weight, non-roadside repair ability, cost and monitoring / charging of batteries.
I run Shimano on my indoor setup, and Campagnolo on the road. I don’t agree with you on Campag being less intuitive. It is just as easy to operate as Shimano. On top of that it performs perfectly and tops Shimano and SRAM on style and x-factor. If Price not an issue, I have no doubt: Campagnolo is my favorite.
I cannot agree more
+1! Usually i am opreating a 2007 Gios A90 racing bike which was originally completed with a 2006 Chorus groupset. It was working absolutely perfect all the time. 18 months ago I replaced the groupset by a 2020 Chorus set, not because the former one had got any flaws: the reason was simply my request for smaller chainrings from 53/39 to 50/34 - I'm 65 years old by now. The old Chorus components still look and feel very good, in spite of a long and busy lifetime.
Great video. I’m very envious of all the amazing bikes you get to ride.
Regarding mechanical VS electronic, I am very spoiled and I just love the feel and ease of electronic shifting. I am currently running SRAM AXS Force. Cheers. Keep up the great work.
My new bike came with Sram Force wireless shifting. No problem with it at all, but imo it is a lot of extra money and a lot of additional weight for no real meaningful benefit.
Things get expensive when things go wrong with electronic. Had 2 Etap rear mechs fail, one not in warranty!
Thanks David, I was pretty annoyed with Shimano deciding to get rid of mechanical in the top end So l was only just looking at Chorus and record as a option on my new bike great review as always. 👍😊
If you can afford Record, you benefit from the multiple upshift feature for the rear cassette. See my comment above.
An excellent video - there will always be room for high-end mechanical group sets - and I’m also just awaiting delivery of my 12 speed Chorus equipped bike!
Never had a cable snap in any of my 30 rental mountainbikes.
It just doesn't happen compared to other issues.
Nor did i have any roadbiker coming to my café with an issue like that.
Most issues they have is punctured tyres(i always have spares and a compressor downstairs)
followed by chainlink failures and brake issues. (I have some brake pads but not all variants. I can also bleed their system if it's mineral based)
I'd say 75% of the roadies that have an issue can have it fixed while eating a sandwich.
If not they need a specialized bike shop or specific parts.
Then broke derailleur hangars. Which is usualy followed getting a taxi.
Since the hangars are frame specific meaning i can't help them regardless of spare time.
I used Di2 for three years, but found it a bit soulless. I have now had Chorus 12 rim on my Seven since last year and it's been wonderful. I have another Chorus 12 rim group sitting in my parts cupboard ready for a frame that's currently being built. It's good value for money IMO and the consumables last for a very, very long time. My cassette has 7500+km on it and it's still shifting really nicely and looks brand new. The shifters are incredibly comfortable, the gear range on the 32t cassette is really nice but the reason I like it most is it's tactile feel. You can really feel the shifts, they happen with a wonderful clunk that just isn't present on Shimano groups and I really like that. It's also the fastest shifting groupset I've ever used. I can dump the cassette from the 32t sprocket to the 11t sprocket in the blink of an eye. It's so much faster than electronic groups it's not even true.
could not agree more the shifting up and down is incredible
My Shimano cassette is 21.000km and still shifting perfectly. Battery charged once 6 weeks, when I'm back home.I like feeling just pressing the button and gear changed.
I am using 12sp chorus and 12sp SR eps .and also an ut di2 former user. electric groupset is so slow...i cannot stand it
I'm old enough to remember Sram Grip Shift system. I don't think I can ever bring myself to ride Sram. I know Shimano is a very sensible choice, but Campagnolo all day long for this old timer.
I remember grip shift and Sachs wavy shifters and I’m glad they didn’t survive 👍
I paid a lot for a set of 8 spd grip shifters back in the day and tbh looking back i bought the hype. Going back to rapid fire was inevitable
My Colnago V1r is in shop having Super Record mechanical installed. The 2014 11sp Record coming off is being rebuilt on to my C40. Most reliable mechanical groupset, and you’d want to keep it. Doesn’t age. Don’t feel the benefits of electronic will make me a better rider. Nice for those prepared to pay the substantial premium for it
Will continue to buy mechanical groupset a that’s how I now only ride campagnolo
Also not everyone at shops are tech savvy amd I’ve had 5 shops already unable to set shit up …and I’ve now learned how to both set up axs and di2 properly
Keep up the good work campagnolo
Shimano 105 is a fantastic 11 speed mechanical group set.
Shhh don't give the dentists too many ideas
Tbh there's pro and cons but as with anything digital, there is planned obsolescence built-in which doesn't sit right with me.
here's my problem with electronic shifting - I don't want anything contributing to the powering of the bike except myself. Nothing.
Batteries have to be charged and ultimately die, apps and settings and firmware goes bad, has glitches or becomes un-supported.
Cable operated derailleurs have only been getting better and better - and all you need to replace is a cheap cable if yours stretches too much. AND non-electronic components are cheaper.
I am more than happy with my GRX 800 stuff.
Sorry I can't be excited about this new HIGH END hype over Etap or Di2 - its not for me.
and I hope that the option will always be out there to NOT use them - if I have to got o Campy I will !!
unfortunately, it's trickling down, eg rival. but im with you. Anolgue stuff is going through the roof on ebay
@@gaza4543 There's always going to be a niche for mechanical, and I'd say, a much larger niche than electronic. The future of cycling industry is in daily use bikes, not high end elitist bullshit components. More people on this planet still buy low end phones than even mid tier smartphones. This all the case, if Shimano/SRAM abandon mechanical, someone else will take it up. Way too much money to be made not to.
Here here. E bikes are for cheaters or old people who don’t have the power to ride unassisted in which case I think they’re good. However if you’re able bodied you should ride a ‘manual’ bike. Re gears; batteries die, one more thing to go wrong. I’ll stick with old skool tech thanks. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it 🥸
@@KOL630 Rubbish, ride what you enjoy. No need to force others to ride what you want.
@@LiamHaHaX fair point I guess, I just think if you’re able to ride a regular bike then the physical challenge should be embraced. I think e bikes are great for older people or people who would normally struggle to ride an ‘old skool’ bike. I guess you’re right though it’s ultimately about fun innit 🤷🏻♂️
Great vid, David! On Campagnolo Record 12 mechanical disc currently, fantastic kit, brakes superb!
However my next setup will be electronic.
Why ?
I bought a full carbon bike back in 2016 which came with a Shimano groupset. I changed to Campagnolo 11 speed Record. I've always ridden with Campagnolo and still have 10 speed on my other bike. Can't fault it at all. I've always ridden with mechanical rim brake groupsets and won't be changing anytime soon
Haven't moved to electronic shifting systems. I think if people demand mech shifting then the manufacturers will continue to make them for years to come. It is true that disc brakes have taken over rim brakes and rim brake bikes might only be offered on cheaper bikes in a few years.
I've used all the three major manufacturers group sets since the 1980's. They all have their respective merits.
You do realize that you must put a Campy groupset on an Italian frameset. Anything else is sacrilege!
Hi David, I think the introduction of electronic systems are not just sales driven, but a technology that seems like it’s being shoved down our throats. It is also taking away choice from the consumer…disc brakes are another example. I have Dura-Ace electronic on my aero bike and Dura-Ace mechanical on my climbing bike (for light weight) and like them both, but they were bought at a time that I could choose which system I wanted to go for. At this rate, that choice is disappearing fast. Cheers mate!
don't worry this way once electronic is the norm every new set that comes out - you'll have to buy new stuff - over and over!
can't have people using groupsets for more than a few years! >______>
You don't need to buy them though, Dura Ace is not the only groupset Shimano has. And if there is a profitable market for mechanical groupsets after electronic takes over, a company will take that market and profit from it.
Not everyone buys top-end groupsets, and not many actually need it.
The most interesting new launch for next year will be Shimano 105. What will be the future for the "groupset of the people"? I bet that Shimano will keep it mechanical.
@@luisfernandezquero5787 This post didn’t age well.
@@5891jonathan Absolutely! 😂, Although seems that this year Shimano will launch the new mechanical 105...
Man with the price of shimano now, campy is looking pretty good value! I’m happy with my 11spd Ultegra di2, looks like the same levers and brakes for the rim brake version so I can’t see the point of upgrading
Recently made the plunge to campagnola super record EPs ,and wow converted totally love it.
I am total satisfied with Chorus rimbrake version
hi mate planning to get one! how do you find it after some kms?
The Italians have been creating outstanding 'style' in many industries. Campagnolo has been doing that in the bicycle industry for a many decades. Campagnolo has always produced dependable components. Being dependable has been a major component in their design,. Not dead last behind cost, profit, and sell ability like other manufacturers. Electronic shifting isn't and won't be on my purchase list. I am not a pro-rider and the mille-seconds won't matter in my shifting. A battery always wears down and needs to be recharged to work every time. I can depend on my fingers more than batteries. I could go back to a friction down tube shifter and do better than a lot of riders on their 'index' shifters. You learn and get familiar with the Campagnolo design and method, you appreciate the thoroughness in their designs.
I have Campagnolo Super Record 12 speed mechanical and love the group set! I work on my own bikes and dialing shifting as needed as not a concern. However, the one big issue I hate dealing with is replacing cables on internal routing. That alone makes me want to switch over to electronic....
For the 'average' cyclist internal cables have as much meaning as electronic gears, being blinded by marketing... Functionality should be king.
I can see electric taking over for a bit at the top end then a reemergence of mechanical. Jut look a the sports car market. 10 - 15 years ago everyone was buying a Porsches with the auto PDK double clutch, a higher performing more efficient system. Now Porsche buyers want manuals to the point they command a big premium on the second hand market. They are in demand for that more connected visceral experience. Yes there may be a slight performance gain for electric gears, but why do 99.99% of us ride our bikes ? Unless you are a world tour or pro conti pro, how much do these performance gains matter vs the enjoyment of the bike.
Mechanical should always remain. No electricity required
Exactly. Electric is for people who can't ride.
Agreed, keep mechanical!
@@acewilliams7917 Considering nearly all professional athletes ride electronic shifting that's just an ridiculous statement.
It has it's benefits. And some cons.
most notably the costs for very vulnereable parts.
If you fall the first things you'd break are the brake levers and the rear mech.
@@1barnet1 The beauty of the bike, is that you're not using any electricity, gas and such. You are the driving force. This is lazy.
@@acewilliams7917
The electricity required for shifting is literally nothing compared to the electricity required to make carbon fibre or aluminium parts.
Then if it's dark, do you use lights?
Well in a week your light will use more electricity then the shifters in several months.
Even pedal assist bikes. Which i'd agree with you that in many cases. No in MOST cases. people that use those are just lazy.
And people that know me know i can't stand the trend that the spoiled youth of 12-16 years of well off parents use those bikes to go to school 3-5 miles away from home. I completely detest that trend.
However they only use 0,5 KW for 50-60 miles. Being more efficient then any other form of power transportation. And by a very significant margin as well.
So for older people or longer distance commute. It's a great innovation.
Mechanical shifting, rim brakes, threaded BB for me. Been buying Ultegra for many years, but I guess that's coming to an end.
Funny that some prefer Shimano's ergonomics - for me its the opposite, thumb shift down and finger shift up with campagnolo seems intuitive and less likely to confuse than two buttons close together or a swinging brake lever lol!. I always thought ergonomics was Campy's USP. Dumping up to 5 cogs down and 3 up in one go for Campag is also pretty good. Having tried electronic versions of both, yes the EPS is slightly better in terms of consistency of shifting every time, but Shimano's mechanical had significant room for improvemt hence their di2 is a big step up. EPS and DI2 are pretty close. I can understand the move to electronic only for Shimano and Campagnolo keeping high end mechanical options for the purists when it works so well. Only quibble is the long ekar thumb shifter should have been introduced to mech 11s and 12s, as David said.
david arthur is what david attenborough is to nature i just love his videos
I have 3 bikes all different set ups! I have Ultegra Di2, SRAM Etap Red and Ultegra mechanical. There is a place for both electrical and mechanical the same as disc and rim brakes, it's a matter of choice.
Just built my new bike with Super Record EPS disc. No regrets.
The most bold statement in this video is the stick-out on that rear derailleur cable. In all seriousness, I'm sticking with my Ultegra r8000 mechanical groupset on my cervelo S3 as long as I can.
Ive been riding and racing for 35 years and definitely a traditionalist. However I’ll be going electronic groupset for the summer race bike, cheaper mechanical for the winter bike that gets dumped in the garage caked in mud after a ride.
David I own mechanical group sets in all 3 brands across 10 & 11 speed. Ergonomics of campy is the most intuitive and most logical by far. I’m not sure what you didn’t like but I much prefer it to SRAM Red and Durace. It must be said that they are all very good by the way. I’m not going electronic any time soon.
I strongly dislike Shimano shift levers. Pushing the entire brake lever through its long throw is irritating as hell. Campagnolo is much better for me.
I hope more brands pick up hydraulic shifting as Rotor has done. It has all of the benefits of mechanical shifting, but is completely frictionless. Brilliant!
Have you tried it though? I have and I'll be honest I wasn't that impressed with the shifting, it just doesn't compare to mechanical or electronic
@@davidarthur Maybe other brands can produce a more tactile feel at the lever, but the technology is still incredibly inventive.
My 1988 Bianchi came with the first generation of Chorus
Still running as smooth as silk
Just hard to get parts now days
CAMPAG for me
Started riding Campagnolo Chorus 2012. Last time I use Shimano 105 had a crash due to failure of hallow Shimano 105 arm. Pedal came off as I was crossing an intersection.
Just ordered my chorus groupset, rim brake... can't bear the idea of charging my bike (or components) to ride it. Some things should remain classic.
I prefer Campagnolo’s thumb tab shifters.
They are completely intuitive to use and super easy to shift to a smaller cog or chain ring.
I seriously doubt Shimano is 'abandoning' mechanical groupsets. New 105 is due soon, and I would not be surprised at all to see ultegra mechanical groupsets in a year or so, once the demand for the new 12 speed elecrtonic stuff dies down.
This post didn’t age well.
One thing that needs to be mentioned. Unless you buy the higher end bikes with high end electronic shifting. The bike will be heavier by .6-.8 kg. At least for the weight weenies that's a big deal.
For me the comparison isn't whether electronic is better than mechanical but rather its the cost. I have used DA Di2 and its great but it was on a borrowed bike, I can't justify the price but would like a performance groupset.
I have mechanical Ultegra 11 speed, but I am annoyed with very bad ergonomy of hoods and levers. Switching definitely this year to Chorus, but I will keep Rotor crankset.
Actually most cyclist change to Campagnolo because of superior ergonomics and dedicated fuctions, not like in Shimano, where you have to be careful with levers while braking or shifting,
not to mix up.
I'd love di2 but when it came time to build my bike frame up i knew i couldn't afford dura ace di2 so i easily chose mechanical dura ace over ultegra di2.
Going to upgrade my 105 to the record disc mechanical on my bianchi with some Bora Wheels🕺🏼 never used campy before, cant wait
that Basso is stunning
I run shimano ultegra mechanical and Campag veloce mechanical and prefer the shifting on the Shimano but the hoods on the Campag are a dream so comfortable.
Love cycling but grew up in public housing and family budget was so tight that I never had any bicycle. Cycling was restricted to 1-2 times overused rental bikes with bottom tier Shimano SIS parts (or worse) in public parks, often causing failed or skipped shifting. Causing me to be fascinated whenever I borrow a cousin’s bike with shifting that actually work well.
Fast forward to now, I cycle regularly and also collect bikes, having 3 modern titanium and steel bikes (plus a carbon one for my wife) and looking to acquire a carbon one for myself in the future. Will stick to Campy mechanical groups as still fascinated with mechanical groups that shift flawlessly and I don’t want to keep ensuring 5-6 bikes always have battery power 😂😂😂
That rear cable loop!!!
David, just a note;
The Chorus can be optioned for 48-32 front rings and a 11-34 at the back, that is better than one to one. So pretty easy gears.
I don't think SRAM is matching that.
SRAM has an 11-36 cassette
@@Hintonbro. not on there 12 speed.
@@waynosfotos Since all of SRAM's 12-speed groupos are interchangeable, you can go 10-44T using XPLR cassettes and Mechs or all the way to 10-52T using Eagle parts if you are so inclined.
@@vomErsten actually, no you can't, because of the 2x tooth capacity. It is not a one (1) by.
It would be best to ask SRAM what the tooth capacity is for their AXS 2 by groupsets.
@@waynosfotos Actually yes, you can, because you can use Rival, Force, and RED AXS shifters with an Eagle derailleur no problem. SRAM themselves advertise this cross-compatibility. All current AXS stuff is interoperable. You might have to make a custom size chain if you want to be ultra silly with a 2x12 that goes up to 52T in the rear, but nothing prevents it from functioning.
Chorus is also offered with rim brakes. Don't forget centaur.
I ride Shimano Ultegra mechanical on my Bike. for 2 years without even anything adjusting. I was always a Campa man and i guess i will switch back, because i don't need electronic shifting and i don't want a brand dictating me what i should use. I think Shimano is going the wrong way, the future will tell. Thank you for your great review.
Rohloff is offering an electric and electronic shifting option. Unfortunately it only works with a Bosh system at the moment. I'm looking forward to use their speedhub on a tri bike.
I can’t see any reason to “upgrade” from my Campagnolo Super record 11 speed and rim brakes.
I prefer the positive feel of mechanical and I have never ridden anything other than Campagnolo.
I only recently went to 11 speed, I was kicking it old school with 9 speed for a long time.
The only thinks that i don t like of chorus 12 group set, is the fact than the gear lever are not carbon fiber (like the old model) is in aluminium....but the record has them....Greetings from Caracas....
I'm not opposed to electronic groupsets. But I do feel the up in price is not justified. Also, coming from a job where electronic devices dominate almost my whole day, I don't want yet another gadget that I need to charge and control via an app. And what about those components becoming obsolete? How long will I be able to buy spare parts for a first gen Di2 groupset? A battery for example. How long will I receive firmware updates? What if any electronic component fails on a 5y plus old electronic drivetrain? I'd like to be sure that I can re-use a groupset on for example on my town bike down the line once I upgrade on my top end bike. I wouldn't be confident that that's possible with todays' electronic groupsets. For example, I'm still rocking my 9sp Campag Chorus groupset on my town beater. I put it on an old steel frame and it works flawlessly, despite being 20 years old. Will I be able to do that with Di2 20 years from now?
Quick answer? No.
Live my di2 on my road bike but find for my MTB mechanical works fine and cheaper if I break parts. If I build a gravel bike I'll go for Tiagra 10spd Hydraulic.
Honestly, the cost is just getting insane, so that's my main impetus for not going for a new 12s groupset. The new Ultegra costs $1000 more than the previous groupset. That's a 66% price jump. The previous-generation Shimano mechanical kit was pretty much flawless (crank bonding issues aside), so this switch to 12s and electronic-only just looks like Shimano chasing SRAM's tail, which is sad to see.
And while I would like to switch to Campagnolo to force the hand of Shimano/SRAM to maintain high-tier mechanical groupsets, my riding experiences of mechanical Campy groupsets has left a lot to be desired, and if you layer on the lack of availability of parts and proprietary freehubs, it becomes very hard to justify.
Honestly I'll probably just start hoarding mechanical groupset parts to try and keep the dream alive as long as possible. Besides, if previous generations are any indication, the new 105 will be as good as the old Dura-Ace mechanical, so not all will be lost.
I doubt whether you switching to Campagnolo would force the hands of Shimano and SRAM in any direction, tbh.
Do you recommend the older (2x11) dura ace or campagnolo's chorus (2x12) or ekar (1x13)? The condition is road, but there are some cracks and bumps. It's not gravel, but it's enough for the chain to bounce up and down.
My hope would be that Shimano keeps producing their current 11 spd mechanical groupsets at a lower price...there should surely be a demand, but it may canabalize their di2 12 speed sales. I don't have a strong opinion, just want reasonable prices! And more rim brake shifter options, of course.
mechanic is eternal😎😎🚴🏼♀️
Shimano are good but Campagnolo is elite it's the Ferrari of components. I never had any issues of mist shifting and I ride mechanical group set 11 speed Record. It's expensive but it's worth it there not throw away Components.
Mechanical campy for life!!!
I get that electronic shifting provides an edge for racers in a race and that's all good, but not even Lewis Hamilton drives an F1 car around town. Mechanical shifting is just fine and it is beautiful, really, when paired with fit legs ready to ride through the countryside, shifting all the way. And thanks for your look at this, David, and I am all for shifting choices, just that I personally don't have the dollars to spend on gizmos that scoot the chain to the left and right, and ironically, just yesterday on my commute home, I blew out the cable to the rear derailleur, but no worries, I had to face only one hill which required me to push my bike up it, and I have a fresh cable at the ready, all I need to do is install and cut it to length. And simplicity still counts for a lot and isn't that one of the appeals of cycling? Still, gizmos can be cool and I'm not gonna complain that many riders enjoy pushing buttons to change gears, not unlike, really, the gizmos on fancy mopeds that double and triple the power of a rider. And I grin and truly, I do want an e-bike and the assistance it would provide for commuting. It does get a bit lonely and boring out there, climbing hills all by yourself at night in the countryside, just wanting to get home. And thinking, man, if I had a fancy moped, I'd be there already.
David, your review is a "short term" review. I have a 80s Vitus 979 with DA 7400, a 90s Trek 5500 with DA 7700 and a 2009 Cervelo S3 with DA 7900 - obviously all mechanical. All 3 bikes are race ready and rideable. So if i buy a $2 k
...so if I buy a $12 k Factor Ostro VAM with DA 9200 DI2, I doubt that this will shift 25 years from now - battery will be toast and most likely spare batteries will be impossible to get as there will be 7 DA version in those 25 years. Try to get a 2010 DA 7970 battery today... Wereas my Cervelo S3 with DA 7900 mechanical will still be working.
Personally don't see the advantage of electronic. Upgraded from 105 R7000 to red etap. Yeah it sounds cool and is light, but the shifting performance is nearly the same, if not slightly slower, than 105. After two weeks I sold the groupset and went back to 105
What happens when your battery dies in the middle of nowhere? I guess you ride around with an extra and always monitor battery levels before a ride. Electronic may give great shifting performance but It seems just another marketing feature that allows the overall profit margins to rise. More importantly this kind of tech lets the manufacturers anchor the prices of their entire lineup at a higher level and introduces “performance anxiety” amongst those who can only afford Sora or Tiagra or Apex group sets. I know it’s not exactly the same but I recently converted a nice Magura hydraulic brake system to mechanical because it’s way easier to service, especially in the wild. For similar reasons I’m sticking with inner tubes. How easy is it to fix your own electronic groupset? The bike part makers have begun to emulate the auto industry.
Electronic abs Brakes(will be next) vs that old reliable trustworthy tech of rim brakes and cable is still riding along the side of the tech advances going on and will keep on with just a change of a new cables and pads.
I don't know how I feel about the drop of the mech Ult. I get DA getting the axe, but ultegra i still think that there are plenty of amateurs that want the mech feeling, the compromise of weight compared to DA, and the reasonable price tag. Possibly the new 105 takes the mech Ult place and tiagra becomes 11spd? We will find out all in due time
Or stick with r9100 11spd.. nothing wrong with it and probably tons of great deals on it
Great deals do not exist on cycling gear at any level in 2021
if i was to buy a new bicycle today i would choose Sram etap wireless. Campagnolo in just 10 years back was my choice as it was almost like having a Ferrari.
I’d be happy to switch to mechanical Chorus. Price/weight is a no brainer
Chorus looks fantastic except for that oversized rear derailleur cable - any chance it can be shortened? Saw it on multiple occasions :/ Another Chorus benefit - it is actually in stock ATM, at least on couple main online shops I checked.
Oh I'm sure the rear gear cable could be cut shorter, not sure what it's as long as it is really
Just by a little bit. You don't want an excessively tight radius that could hinder the shift cable's operation. You'll also need to take the derailleur's forward swing (like when it's in large-large cross-chain gearing, the cage and derailleur body will swing forward) into account.