At the lower stakes, where the pre-flop raises are larger, and a lot of players are taking bigger sizing on earlier streets, it's unusual to see a raise-fold on the river, because there just isn't enough stack depth behind. I played a hand the other night where I could have conceivably raise-folded. I turned bottom trips on a low-mid disconnected board in a single-raised pot, and slow-played it by checking back, after flat-calling V's flop c-bet. V led river for about 40% of a smallish pot. I raised 3x, with enough stack depth to fold to a 3B, especially from this particular V, who I know never puts a lot of money in without a super-strong hand. If he 3B me, I'd have been very comfortable folding, certain he turned a boat.
He went way to big on the River I would of went 450-490 to ensure a call by any Jx hand…when you go big like 700 your only getting called by a straight or a Boat and maybe Ace Jack(that’s thin)but that’s highly unlikely because there more combinations of Boats… plus if you get jammed on you are never good…if you go smaller you can ensure a call and won’t feel pot committed to call a shove
I can get behind hero's flop check for the reason he stated; solid read of the PFR as a LAG. Under most circumstances I'd donk here though. The flat call on turn is a clear mistake. I hate hero's sizing on river, it screams full house. Now maybe you can get some sus players to call with trips, but mostly you're targeting T8 and that's it. Because of the turn misplay hero is forced to raise river for value, but I think 400 is fine.
This is why we raise the turn. 2 people in the hand, turned backdoor clubs, its a slam dunk raise. Here, you only get action when youre beat. You're never getting action with the best hand. This was poorly played. You raise to 225 on turn, you get them both to call. Neither one of these opponents ever lose an extra dollar as played. Both free rolling
Positive! There are only 2 possibilities here: 1. you're beat 2. you're ahead If 1, then why are you calling? Torching your money! If 2. Then why are you calling? a) wasting opportunity to charge when ahead? b) Giving a free card to your opponent, and opportunity to beat you. c) if they do not improve, you're not getting anything on river d) giving them opportunity to bluff you when you're not going to call? SO: It's a fold or raise. Period.
You have to lead here on the flop. Most of the preflop raisers range is going to miss the flop. He's unlikely to c bet with a miss into 3 other people. Missed street of value. Plus what hands are hoping to have call a check raise? The small part of his range that is overpairs? Maybe AJ? No combo draws for the other players in the field to have. Only one combo of 76s left. Bet 50 on the flop
If you donk 50 on this flop, there's a good chance everyone folds, and you get no value at all. I prefer to check raise. As played, the turn absolutely has to be raised.
Seems like if you’re willing to fold to a 3-bet on the river, your raise should be a little smaller. Seems like you’re pricing yourself in to call it all off. No?
Why $700 Targeting a Jx or the occasional 10,8 given the fact that any sorta bet here will be perceived as strong anyway they are likely to fallback mostly on Pot odds! Make it 5-6 and juice it.
I don't think the river is a raise at all. Just a call. The small blind can have strong jacks here like AJ that would check to the pfr on the flop and then bet the turn after it checks through. But if they bet the river with trips and then get raised, how could they ever call? For that matter, even if sb had T8s how could they call a raise? Hero has a multitude of full houses here and raising trips is unlikely
I never like the raise fold move just because when I'm the villain I can never help but go for the bluff jam when I think my opponent watches Crush Live Poker.
Flop is a donkbet. You can’t trap first to act in a big multiway pot, players aren’t stupid, everyone’s going to be afraid of a potential check raise. Also this flop isn’t wet enough to cooler someone or get it in as a coin flip versus a monster combo draw. The initial raiser has AA sure he’ll probably cbet but he’s also going to call your Donkbet. What you don’t do is give free cards to gut shots like 34s. Hands like that will probably call your donkbet definitely call, possibly even try to semi bluff just because they don’t think you would ever lead with a made hand.
As soon as no one bet on flop for check raise and the 9 comes. Would just figure its not my hand and give up, still call to see if get boat but if not fold.
You're just giving up on the turn? With a set? SB could have a lot of Jx and 9x here. I'd be raising, not calling, to take control of the pot and deny equity.
@@Mathemagical55 Raising as a bluff, between the PFR and the V who took the lead on the turn, with just a missed draw? What hands are we hoping SB will fold? Are we trying to rep a turned straight that didn't raise, or a set/2P that didn't raise flop or turn and then boated up on the river? In hero's spot, if I just flat-called turn, I might just call with a straight. Hard to put SB on a range that's going to continue barreling into two opponents on the river as a bluff or for too-thin value when the board pairs, some of the draws got there on the turn, and the rest of the draws brick out. Sort of seems like one of those way ahead/way behind spots for SB with all her value combos that aren't boats. I played a weird hand like this the other night - raised pre on the BTN with QdTd. Two callers - the SB and the CO, who limped in front of me. Flopped the joint on AKJ with two clubs. Both V's check to me. I c-bet 1/3 pot, both call. Turn is a low club. Checks to me, I bet 1/3 pot again. Both call. River pairs the board with an offsuit Ace. V1 suddenly donk-leads for 40% pot. V2 insta-calls. Kinda hard for me to think either player didn't raise turn with a flush or x/r flop with 2P or a set, so I'm discounting boats and flushes. I call. V1 has trip A's with AT. V2 has a T-high flush. I can't imagine V2 raising there, as a bluff, or with a straight, for the same reason I didn't raise river with my straight - I was either way ahead or way behind.
If this guy's so smart why's he calling into the show? And why is it that every single caller mimics Bart's jargon down to the word? It's like AA or some weird cult where people memorize this new self-help language and then flaunt it everywhere they go hollering about journaling and shame spiral's or whatever hoping to sound smarter or more informed than they actually are. Bart rules and so does CLP but this is gambling, dudes. This is a world populated by rebels an anti-conformists and that's why most of us love it. These little fan boy robots need to get their own personalities
Is the raise-fold in your arsenal and what sizing would you have personally used on the river?
At the lower stakes, where the pre-flop raises are larger, and a lot of players are taking bigger sizing on earlier streets, it's unusual to see a raise-fold on the river, because there just isn't enough stack depth behind.
I played a hand the other night where I could have conceivably raise-folded. I turned bottom trips on a low-mid disconnected board in a single-raised pot, and slow-played it by checking back, after flat-calling V's flop c-bet. V led river for about 40% of a smallish pot. I raised 3x, with enough stack depth to fold to a 3B, especially from this particular V, who I know never puts a lot of money in without a super-strong hand. If he 3B me, I'd have been very comfortable folding, certain he turned a boat.
He went way to big on the River I would of went 450-490 to ensure a call by any Jx hand…when you go big like 700 your only getting called by a straight or a Boat and maybe Ace Jack(that’s thin)but that’s highly unlikely because there more combinations of Boats… plus if you get jammed on you are never good…if you go smaller you can ensure a call and won’t feel pot committed to call a shove
I love the name of the poker room. Very creative
This has became my new confort discussion pod. Ive know of you for years Bart but just now finding this show.
I can get behind hero's flop check for the reason he stated; solid read of the PFR as a LAG. Under most circumstances I'd donk here though. The flat call on turn is a clear mistake. I hate hero's sizing on river, it screams full house. Now maybe you can get some sus players to call with trips, but mostly you're targeting T8 and that's it. Because of the turn misplay hero is forced to raise river for value, but I think 400 is fine.
Thank you i have a question What do you mean Bart, why not bluff on this level?
I'm saving this for watching again later, to see if I have actually learned it. My inability to raise-fold on the river is definitely a leak.
This is why we raise the turn. 2 people in the hand, turned backdoor clubs, its a slam dunk raise. Here, you only get action when youre beat. You're never getting action with the best hand. This was poorly played. You raise to 225 on turn, you get them both to call. Neither one of these opponents ever lose an extra dollar as played. Both free rolling
Positive! There are only 2 possibilities here:
1. you're beat
2. you're ahead
If 1, then why are you calling? Torching your money!
If 2. Then why are you calling? a) wasting opportunity to charge when ahead? b) Giving a free card to your opponent, and opportunity to beat you. c) if they do not improve, you're not getting anything on river d) giving them opportunity to bluff you when you're not going to call?
SO: It's a fold or raise. Period.
Don’t trust anyone that speaks in fax.
You have to lead here on the flop. Most of the preflop raisers range is going to miss the flop. He's unlikely to c bet with a miss into 3 other people. Missed street of value. Plus what hands are hoping to have call a check raise? The small part of his range that is overpairs? Maybe AJ? No combo draws for the other players in the field to have. Only one combo of 76s left. Bet 50 on the flop
If you donk 50 on this flop, there's a good chance everyone folds, and you get no value at all. I prefer to check raise. As played, the turn absolutely has to be raised.
What about j9 of diamonds. They would have bet the turn and river
Bart, 2 of the 3 "one liners" share the 8, it effectively makes it a gut shot, to BOTH straights, does it not?
I usually play 10 8s if it's not crazy pre. I folded it once and stated I hate folding this hand. It was AIP 3 way. I would've scooped with a flush.
I folded 9 10 spades after limping. Would've floped a str8 flush beating a low flush and set
This hand is why I prefer online 100BB buyin, as I shove the Turn here
Seems like if you’re willing to fold to a 3-bet on the river, your raise should be a little smaller. Seems like you’re pricing yourself in to call it all off. No?
I cant imagine playing something where its $10 an hour. Do people rush players. Id get annoyed by tanking
$10 a hr is super good
@bluerushing8563 probably just not used to a hourly. Imagine you can't be as patient.
Time at my casino is $22/hr lol
Dude complaining when this is probably the cheapest or tied for cheapest game in the country.
Why $700 Targeting a Jx or the occasional 10,8 given the fact that any sorta bet here will be perceived as strong anyway they are likely to fallback mostly on Pot odds!
Make it 5-6 and juice it.
I don't think the river is a raise at all. Just a call. The small blind can have strong jacks here like AJ that would check to the pfr on the flop and then bet the turn after it checks through. But if they bet the river with trips and then get raised, how could they ever call? For that matter, even if sb had T8s how could they call a raise? Hero has a multitude of full houses here and raising trips is unlikely
You dont think these rec players call with AJ trips here? You serious? All day they are calling that raise with trips top kicker...
I never like the raise fold move just because when I'm the villain I can never help but go for the bluff jam when I think my opponent watches Crush Live Poker.
Flop is a donkbet. You can’t trap first to act in a big multiway pot, players aren’t stupid, everyone’s going to be afraid of a potential check raise. Also this flop isn’t wet enough to cooler someone or get it in as a coin flip versus a monster combo draw. The initial raiser has AA sure he’ll probably cbet but he’s also going to call your Donkbet. What you don’t do is give free cards to gut shots like 34s. Hands like that will probably call your donkbet definitely call, possibly even try to semi bluff just because they don’t think you would ever lead with a made hand.
I just moved to Louisville KY lol
Play at ceasers or Jaqks?
A pro player in the 1970s told me .. when you got a hand bet it.
Spoiler Shield 🛡️
As soon as no one bet on flop for check raise and the 9 comes. Would just figure its not my hand and give up, still call to see if get boat but if not fold.
Just saw the river. Not raising but calling any bet.
@@mrhumble2937 You have to raise the river because your hand looks like some missed draw and straights and Jx will pay you off.
You're just giving up on the turn? With a set? SB could have a lot of Jx and 9x here. I'd be raising, not calling, to take control of the pot and deny equity.
@@Mathemagical55 Raising as a bluff, between the PFR and the V who took the lead on the turn, with just a missed draw? What hands are we hoping SB will fold? Are we trying to rep a turned straight that didn't raise, or a set/2P that didn't raise flop or turn and then boated up on the river?
In hero's spot, if I just flat-called turn, I might just call with a straight. Hard to put SB on a range that's going to continue barreling into two opponents on the river as a bluff or for too-thin value when the board pairs, some of the draws got there on the turn, and the rest of the draws brick out. Sort of seems like one of those way ahead/way behind spots for SB with all her value combos that aren't boats.
I played a weird hand like this the other night - raised pre on the BTN with QdTd. Two callers - the SB and the CO, who limped in front of me. Flopped the joint on AKJ with two clubs. Both V's check to me. I c-bet 1/3 pot, both call. Turn is a low club. Checks to me, I bet 1/3 pot again. Both call. River pairs the board with an offsuit Ace. V1 suddenly donk-leads for 40% pot. V2 insta-calls. Kinda hard for me to think either player didn't raise turn with a flush or x/r flop with 2P or a set, so I'm discounting boats and flushes. I call. V1 has trip A's with AT. V2 has a T-high flush. I can't imagine V2 raising there, as a bluff, or with a straight, for the same reason I didn't raise river with my straight - I was either way ahead or way behind.
they shoulda just gone all the way and named the club "JAQK'T"
Hero played this hand terribly.
3 players in the hand on such a draw heavy board. Minimum value.
If this guy's so smart why's he calling into the show? And why is it that every single caller mimics Bart's jargon down to the word? It's like AA or some weird cult where people memorize this new self-help language and then flaunt it everywhere they go hollering about journaling and shame spiral's or whatever hoping to sound smarter or more informed than they actually are. Bart rules and so does CLP but this is gambling, dudes. This is a world populated by rebels an anti-conformists and that's why most of us love it. These little fan boy robots need to get their own personalities
Dude. Just, go? Away? Watch something else?
Lol wtf are you even talking about? Can you at least give examples?
Jesus man look inward. No reason to leave this comment and you didn’t even make a coherent point. Let people do what they like
You CANNOT check the flop here. Gotta get money in