Best Subwoofer Amp - Crown XTI vs Behringer NX vs Dayton APA1200DSP
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2022
- Ever wonder which is the Best Subwoofer Amp? In this video I'll look at the Crown XTI2002, the Dayton APA1200DSP and the Behringer NX6000D / NU6000D to see which is the best Subwoofer Amp. How can I do this? I own all three, so you can get some real life experience with each one and why one of them might be the best subwoofer amp for you.
Best Subwoofer Amp
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![The King of Pro Audio? Crown XLi 1500 Amp Dyno Test and Review [4K]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/s5_PegGVF9k/mqdefault.jpg)
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Which do you think is best and why? Links in the description if you want to know more.
Make sure to add your vote to the poll on the community page: ua-cam.com/users/123Toidcommunity
The metal band I played in in the 90's we used Behringer amps, pre-amps and 48 ch mixing board. Ran a 10,000 watt system. Blew the roof off the bars and clubs we played in. Amazing sound quality with very little harmonic distortion, could run full wattage without heat problems. Oh and ran 4 subs, with 6-18", 4 mids, 2 highs and 2 ultra top horns.
@@franklaferriere5754 nice! Glad to hear you had a good experience with them. Sounds pretty awesome!
@@Toid If I went back to playing? Behringer equiptment would be used again.
Crown. I had two QSC K12 PA's in 2012 used for DJing.
Both had 2000 watt crown amps. 135 db peak. Super reliable. Never overheated. Amazing sound.
Crown 👑 for me. Also love QSC to be clear.
Cheers
Can't argue with the Crown. They've been rock solid for decades.
I use the Behringer nx6000d pushing 2, 18" ultimax subs tuned to 17hz. Rca sub out from receiver split to both inputs. Never an issue. Only one time did it over drive and self attenuate. It's quiet, rock solid, got it soon after that came out.
Shakes the house with barely any movement of the subs.
man, if you would get the crown xti 6002 or 4002, along with a laptop and crowns high q net system architecture software for advanced control, you would hear a huge difference. Definitely worth the price.
If the cones are hardly moving, odds are you're not really pushing neither the drivers nor the amp that hard. That's good for sound quality, lower distortion and thermal stress, but it doesn't say much about the quality of the amp.
@@TokeBoisen When you play a vented woofer or subwoofer near or at the tuning frequency of the box, even near rated continuous power, you'll find the woofer or subwoofer won't move all that much anyway even when being driven correctly due to it being most efficient at that frequency, when you start to get 5hz lower than tuning frequency in a vented box, the woofer begin to unload and move more with less power because there will be less backpressure to control the cone acting like a spring. Still applies if it was sealed, in which case, there will always be a degree of backpressure regardless of frequency because of it being sealed, that's why sealed acoustic suspension designs when build correctly yield the best hifi sound, quick accurate midrange and bass, now even if you're using a passive radiator, instead of a port in the pr's case, you get below tuning frequency of the pr, the active woofer will still start to move more. It'll need to do twice the work for the same output to go lower than the pr's tuning frequency at that point. Still, I can say with absolute certainty, a crown xti will absolutely smash the heck out of any Behringer product, especially if you go qsc, a qsc rmxa amp with an active crossover on it will dominate any subwoofer due to them "unlike any other pro Amp out there" rating their amps both channels drivin, 20hz to 20khz power ratings, no 1khz cheating like everyone else. Still, Behringer always will be junk, no audio professional who knows his craft has anything nice to say about them, besides maybe their 32x console, due to them buying midas.
I wish I saw this video a little bit earlier because I’m a little frustrated as I’ve spent the last three days trying to figure out why I was getting nearly no sound out of my Crown amp. I appreciate that you address the gain issue, but it blows my mind why I out of all the research I’ve done never once has it been mentioned that even though other UA-cam channels suggest using these all the time in AV.
I have a Crown XLS 2502 driving a set of Skar DDX15-D2 sub woofers. Even though my Crown has RCAs in, using them only gives about 60% of the rated power.
If one needs to run the Crown at full power from RCA cables as I did, I had to use an ART Cleanbox Pro.
With any pro amp being driven by a theater amp, you need to connect them through an ART Cleanbox Pro.
I am also using a Crown XLS 1002 as a mono block to drive another 500 watt sub, but in this case, the cleanbox is not needed, as 60% of 1100 watts is plenty enough power.
I am seeing some HiFi vendors using the Dayton at audio shows. I use the XLS. And so far it has proven to be extremely effective. Perfect connection and feature set. Plenty of power.
Crown makes amazing amplifiers! Love the comparison and thanks for the video shout out!! 👍
Anytime for one of the best UA-camrs and best guy around. I really appreciate you and what you do for the audio community.
Just for your viewers' reference, I'm driving my 4-ohm B&C 18" pro cinema sub with one of the 7 channels of an old Onkyo AVR (rated for 6 ohm min), about 100 watts or so considering that all channels are being driven. It fills my high ceiling 1000 square foot listening space quite effectively at 100+db SPL with no "sloppiness". But I use it for 2 channel music only, not for cinema LFE or overblown bass shootout tracks.
The Crown XLS2502 is a class D amp with sleep mode and remote power trigger. It could be a nice choice too and it has RCA inputs + standard binding posts. It comes with built-in filtering and limiter. If DSP is needed, someone could use miniDSP or maybe the integrated DSP of your AV Receiver (if it's sufficiently advanced).
Good vid. I have a Crown XLi 2500, was $453.00 , ( had originally bought 2 OSD SMP 1000 DSP mono amps,) but didn't want DSP because I have a Mini DSP Pro 2x4 that I plan to run my 2 DIY Eminence Lab12C based subs. I have an Anthem MRX1140 as my control unit, in the 7.2.4 system. No calibration done yet, my PC is down, so can't run ARC Genesis or REW yet. That being said, the system sounds pretty good in this 12' x 12' x 8' room, no noise from the Crown fans, though the Anthem, the 2 ATI 520 series, and the Outlaw 5000X outboard amps all have AC Infinity S series coolers on them, an we have no A/C. And the Zappiti NAS is also in the same rack. The Dayton unit you reviewed has a similar look to my 2 OSD amps, one of which will be used to power a 3rd Eminence 12 " sub in the back of the room.
I like the class D amps because they are super-efficient, and they drive sub woofers extremely well. I have a class D, Crown XLS 2502 driving a set of Skar DDX15-D2 sub woofers. Even though the XLS series of Crown pro amps have RCAs in, using them only gives about 60% of the rated power. If one needs to run the Crown at full power from RCA cables as I did, I had to use an ART Cleanbox Pro. The Art Cleanbox Pro is a converter that makes home sound equipment’s connections compatible with pro-equipment. The cleanbox has two internal sections. One section converts balanced (XLR) to unbalanced (RCA), the other converts unbalanced to balanced. These sections cannot cross talk, but do share the boxes pre-amp gain controls. So for this to work properly, you have to run RCA cables from the theater amp’s pre-outs to the cleanbox, and XLR cables from the cleanbox to the pro amp. I am also using a Crown XLS 1002 as a mono block to drive another 500-watt sub. But in this case, the cleanbox is not needed, as 60% of 1100 watts is plenty enough power.
I Like Crown and QSC both are great quality amps..
I've owned probably 40 amplifiers in my life and I would have to say the Crown CTS 2000 that I owned was the best that I ever had as far as sound quality.
I had a Crown CTS 2000 driving a pair of original Carver amazing loudspeakers. The carvers are an almost impossible load to drive and the Crown did it no problem at all and sounded phenomenal.
I think that you have the crown xls amplifiers as well. I like my xls amplifiers because they have the rca inputs that work well with the home audio levels, I think that they are great subwoofer amplifiers as well
I've gone from a stereo ICEPower 200ASC x2 amp to an IMG Stageline STA-1000D (which uses a Pascal S-pro 2 module with a custom input buffer) to now something as esoteric as an Artcoustic CPH-1000D, driving first one and now dual subs, and my takeaway is that wattage and damping factor are paramount for subwoofer amps. Sure, you don't want excessive distortion, but having a tight leash on those drive units and having the output to avoid clipping are the key features for good bass sound. So the Crown is probably helped a lot from being Class AB, with a healthy dose of dynamic headroom for the big swings, and all three have ample damping factor but maybe the Behringer is just a tad bit starved for current (as its inflated spec would indicate)
Behringer is garbage and if it lasts 6 months it's 3 year warranty is impossible to use. I have QSC amps that are 20 years old still work and Crowns have always been top of class, got two of those as well.
Qsc gives me piece of mind as well, you can buy them 2nd hand for cheap
Holy zoom Batman. Easy on the zooms
And pans my man. Makes it really hard to take in information. My rule of thumb is you should have to check the edges of the frame of the user to tell if the camera is zooming or not. A little goes a long way.
Thanks for the info. I think best amp for subs for ease of use, pro and home application, whisper quiet, efficient and don’t break the bank are the crown XLS Amps. 1002, 1502, 2502. They have gobs of power and a user friendly interface. Plus .775 and 1.4 voltage input settings. Hard to do better for the money.
Using the Onkyo TX-NR686 btw. My amp is the behringer nx1000d
Thinking about using my XTI2002 for my 18" Sub. I have the sub wired for 2ohms. Not sure how the crossover settings would be. Looks like I can only get down to 4ohms bridged using the crown.
Crown or QSC. Never again will I purchase ANYTHING made by Behringer. Good video.
I run Crown CDI, XLS, XTI, X-core for various PA systems. Asides from a common issue on the kick-start circuitry (easily fixed), they are beastly amps.
I also use WASI, Powersoft, Lab Gruppen... Crown is the best for the price.
Hi Nick, I just purchased the Crown XLS 2002 for my home theatre. Do you provide remote services to configure this amp properly? I'm still in my learning phase with setup and DSP.
What one would you use on a pair of JBL CS 3115s. I’m thinking the crown. Thanks 😊
Your mic picks up a loud low freq rumble that sounds kinda ominous, or maybe that's background music...
I've been looking for a good modern recommendation for a sub build I'm planning next year. Thanks!
As someone who does audio for a living my money would be on the crown amplifier the components will be of good quality and those things are expected to last 10-20 years beringer will do the job but there cheaply made and quality control issues are really common.
Also qsc make really good amplifiers don’t be afraid to look at qsc amplifiers they are really good at there job.
I had a low end QSC running an 18" sub in a home setup...less than 500 watts I think. Had horrible ground hum even with grounding the main pre-amp chassis with the sub amp chassis. Final solution was to use a 2 prong "cheater power plug" for the QSC amp, basically a "ground lift". Quiet as a church mouse after that! Problem Sol-Ved!!!
@@fookingsog the issue with that is if your device has a fault and doesn’t have a ground the next path to ground could be you when you touch it and I know at least in a country with 240v power that’s not something i want to risk.
I always run balance audio cables for that reason where ever i can as that’s the most simple way to stop a ground loop, or some devices have a built in ground lift button that doesn’t comprises the safety of the device. If you need to run unbalanced audio such as over rca or unbalanced 1/4 jack instead of the usual xlr cable then this is the time I would spend the money on a well shielded cable to try and get rid of the interference.
@@Leo-fluffy It *WASN'T* "interference"!!! It was 60Hz AC hum from the *POWER LINE!!!* ...and just so you *know* , common (white) and ground (green) *BOTH* return to the *same* circuit breaker box!!! Green is just a "safety" precaution!!! Most likely, the 60Hz was somehow inductively introduced/injected by a slight AC voltage differential between neutral & ground which was then messing with the low level pre-amp signal. Believe me, I used to work on copy machines which is what I would compare to a computing device coupled with a hair dryer. A device which required a correct Amperage circuit *AND* could only have a AC line voltage variance of 5% or less AND had to have an extremely low voltage differential between common and ground. Otherwise, random error codes would be generated. Not cool for troubleshooting!!!🙄
@@fookingsog never had an issue with qsc, sounds like a user issue, have 3 of their amps, an A3.7 from the 70's mx 700 from the 1990's and a rmx 1850HD from about 2010, never had an issue with any of them, dead silent and reliable...
I have the Crown XTI1002 powering an 18" Ultimax. Awesome amp, but the fan is a bit loud. How do you know what specs to use for a replacement fan?
i have nu6000 and for the money it can play but today i vould choose a crown amp instead but its more money for it alot more, so for home playing its more then you ever gonna need
I have been using a Crown XTi for the past 8 years--no problems. Sure, it could be quieter, it could have a highpass that goes down to 10 Hz and throw some RCAs with a switch like the XLS. Oddly enough, the XTi series has not been updated for around 10 years so hopefully Samsung/Harmon will come wout wt a series 3. A more flexible DSP down to 10Hz, maybe dynamic limiting like the NX Berries (you missed that!) and soon. The pro amp market froze 2 years ago because the pro market was shot because the bars, nightcubs and world tours went away. I'm really looking forward to NAAM and what the pro market has new for 23. QSC, Samsung/Crown, and maybe LABGruppen might rll out something--yeah, Berry owns LAB but I cansee LABGruppen moving into the midrange with some Class D love and Merlin DSP magic. Not for us HT schleps..the pro market but we might catch a break! Now if NAMM does the SSDD thing (Same Stuff Different Decade) then sucks to be me but 2023 should show off something new since they have been sleeping a few years--strike while the market is hot and in recovery. Good video though, those Inukes....errrr, NX really have jumped in price lately.
Yeah that would be really neat if they could do that. And thanks for showing what I missed I appreciate that.
Can you use any of these for four of the buttkicker LFE? Need one amp to handle them all with full range.
Hi, I purchased the Crown 1002, but an important question, you claim that the RCA connection needs amplification and I don't have RCA, only a speaker output or a mono output to the subwoofer, can I connect the Crown to the speaker output? Thanks for your response
I'm building a fully active system with a 2x8 DSP - any recommendations for a passive sub amp?
What's with the ominous backing track? lol.
I run an iNuke 1,000 dsp in my computer system and it does decent for the price. I did replace the fan on it because the stock was just so freaking loud, but it does work fairly well for the price. It doesn't have too much juice though as my 10" Dayton RS HF sub can handle juuuust about every single watt the iNuke can dish out in a vented enclosure.
I'm less interested in "how loud does it get" and more interested in "How well does it cope with instantaneous Dynamic change and current demand". For bass demands I think this is a crucial matter as the Power supply in most SMPS units has too little "on tap" current, and therefore this needs to be built in with caps, or you go back to a toroidal transformer.
Who is looking at actual Audio quality?... I guess that's the question surrounding mine. I appreciate a little effort toward that with your remarks on the Crown Unit seeming to have more sustained bass reserve.
Whats the difference between the Crown XLI and XTI series? I notice the XLI has unbalanced inputs (RCA) and is available in different wattage configurations.
Can the Denon x3300 be connected with RCA to balanced with the Crown?
well you could purchase higher imp drivers and run them in parallel and then connect them both to the dayton..
Got an incredible deal on an XTi 6002 a couple years ago, so I kinda started this journey backwards from most people. Ended up building 2 GSG Audio MBM's as I'm using these as part of a DJ rig. Just tuning things in now, having a bit of trouble with the amp and the software. Crashes on one computer, won't even run on another. Had to borrow an old laptop from my buddy, but I'm finally back to tuning later today. Slowly figuring it out, had them sounding pretty good before the software crashed. Any videos you can point me towards though going through the features of this amp and how to best set it up for subs?
I have the Beringer for two Ultra Max 18’s, I’m hoping it’s enough, got it on sale for $400, and the drivers for $260, flat packs were a bit more. Some day I will put them together
That's a great price for it right now. I think you'll be completely happy with that.
Since the Dayton is a stereo amp with DSP, can it be used to run a 2 Way passive speaker with no physical crossover? (In theory atleast)
I have an anthem avm70 processor. Can I just do the DSP in the anthem program?
Buy adapter cables? What’s wrong with getting out the old soldering iron? ;)
Crown Macro-Tech 600/ 1200/2400/3600/5000VZ. this is the best level! sound and power!
So this only for inhouse.
Any video related to sound system for outside 200-300 peoples?
Can I connected two subs passiv with car audio?
I have the crown XLS 1502 and it is kicking 2 in stereo DIY 15" Dayton classic subs, but I think the punch can be better and something wrong in my setup because the meter lights never goes beyond 2-3 lights.
My XTI 4002 also rarely lights the 3rd bulb. I assume it's because of the lower level sub output from the receiver. Still plenty of power though!
How do we build a sub amp on a budget that compares?
You're a lifesaver for bringing up the Art Cleanbox pro! I just started building dual 18" Ultimaxs' in GSG Martycubes so I bought an NX6000D. I just wanted to test out the amplifier so I connected a little 10" Klipsch Synergy sub that's been in my attic for years since it's amp died to the NX6000D and it seemed really underwhelming. I was thinking the sub would basically explode if I cranked the NX volume knob up but it honestly wasn't that loud, and it sounded like the sub wasn't putting out certain low frequencies it normally would. Do you think getting an Ary Cleanbox pro would correct this?
It’s really hard to say without knowing how you have it set up. but in general, it’s not going to hurt to have it. Out of curiosity, did you run your room correction? I only ask because the amps gain might not be set correctly on your AVR.
@@Toid I honestly just turned the amp on and connected the speaker to the end of a speakon connection and plugged it in lol. I just did it real quick in my garage because I had everything out. I'm waiting to really set everything up once the enclosures are totally built. I'll also need to connect the amp to my computer so I can adjust the DSP. It kind of seemed like it was out of phase with a ton of power going to the little 10" sub so it sounded weird. I'm sure everything with the amplifier is fine, it probably just needs to be adjusted. This is my first time using pro audio so I'm kind of a noob lol. Do you know how high do people generally set the volume knobs of the NX6000D for a subwoofer like an Ultimax? I heard someone on youtube say to always have the knobs turned/set to 2/3rds of all the way up. Does that sound right?
@@justinmanny86 there’s a lot of variables to know for sure exactly where you’re gonna want to turn yours up to. I would just wait until you have it all set up and run your room correction. I think at that point in time you’re going to be pretty surprised at the difference that you’re getting right now. As far as the art clean box pro it’s hit or miss depending on the receiver that you have. however you’re not happy with the when you’re done and feel like you’re leaving room on the table then that’s when you definitely want to buy an art clean box pro
Hello sir. In this video. You had mentioned using a clean box to get the proper voltage through the cables going from the AVR to the amp. How would I know if my AVR has the proper voltage from the sub input?
You can test it with a miltimeter
I bought a "behringer inuke 12000" back in 2021 and in june 2022 I was playing music a out of nowere it goes in protection mode a the fan stop working.
Crown XLS is the way to go. Also has RCA with Input sensitivity adjustment for RCA. Then use a MiniDSP DDRC-24 (or upgraded 2x4HD or the new Flex) and run DiracLive, the ultimate setup.
Hypex makes some killer plate amplifiers too
I wish I understood what you just said. I do have the smaller Crown XLS1002 powering two JBL P1222 bridged at 4 ohms. I’m running two of them. What are all the things you mentioned? I want more bass or better bass or whatever it is you’re selling. Lol help me out.
@@1SR71 Dirac is room correction software, it's similar to Audyssey, ARC... MiniDSP is a standalone processor you can use with whatever amplifier you want. I don't sell, I just use it, works great!
XLS is entry level. Better off with behringer
Behringer is the entry level brand overall. I’d take Crown over Behringer no question
What about Wais tech 1 amplifier In comparison with these amplifier?
I have had a Dayton Audio HPSA1000R for years pushing an old DVC 12" Earthquake and an old DVC 12" Eclipse, both in ported boxes. Series parallel for a 4 ohm load. I love it, the thing rips!
My question is how do you supply power to these things as mine can dip the input voltage by 10 volts. Super capacitor bank? Voltage regulated power conditioner? Are they more efficient at 240 input voltage?
20 Amp circuit instead of a 15 Amp circuit???🤔 I used to work on copy machine which are a computing (cpu) AND heating device (hot fuser to fuse powdered toner to paper). Well, smaller machines were 15A and the larger machines were 20A and a 5% plus/minus voltage variance was allowed. Even a *POWER STRIP* could drop the voltage by several volts and daisy chaining power strips was a *HUGE* no-no!!! So having a dedicated circuit/breaker for heavy current draw items AND not using more than one power strip/surge protector can help!!! If you can go to your local Harbor Freight Tools and look in the electrical meter section for a device called "Kill-a-Watt"...shows device power draw at the wall socket, which might help you assess your situation.
@@fookingsog It is on its own 20amp circuit.
Great video. I was rooting for the crown 👑. I did like the Dayton too. I wonder if Dayton makes a more powerful amp?
dayton needs a more powerful amp honestly
@@user-yi3ju3oz8n They should make a more powerful amp. Show everyone they can. 👍
Why you didn't add Crown xls series to the comparison? That's best competitor to behringer inuke.
Yamaha px 10 amplifier for live program ?
Anyone know if the Dayton audio can run the Dayton kraken sub ?
You could use a dsp instead of the arcon
Crown; reliability, warranty and post sale customer service.
I've had a NU3000DSP since 2016/2017. Good amp but weak power. Expect 600w clean bridged at 4 ohm. (48/50v out of the amp) 150w per channel at 4 ohm or 300w at 2 ohm. That's what I've noticed over the years at least. Anything past those voltages and the amp sounds uncontrolled and distorted. (Not my subs causing that unless you think a full marty on 150w/25v at 4 ohm is going to be full of distortion. And when bridged it sounds clean past that 150w until 600w or 50v)
I was just looking at old videos and stumbled across this comment. Great comment. I appreciate the input.
I like the crown personal
Curious, why do you say that?
User friendly, lots of features sounds amazing. Still want to get a clean box for it.
I have the 2002 myself for two passive subwoofers. Even at the lower input voltage (AVR RCA to XLR), it’s substantial and clear. Great video!
Agree. QSC products use Crown along with Mackie.
Crown rules 👑
Crown Corporation (city of London).
Lots of new cheap amps on the market. Would the 600 watt fosi power a sub today
I'm kind of surprised you didn't do a video on the Crown XLS drivecore2. the main reason I got the XLS 2002 was as a subwoofer amp. the only disappointment I have is the power trigger which is not a typical 12v trigger. btw the reason I chose the xls was due to its power consumption. and I think that once you convert the input signal to a balanced signal it's kind of hard even knowing its D class amp. I wonder why you chose the XTI over the XLS. I'm sure the XTI is a super great amp.
There are two main reasons why I left the XLs series off. The first is the Dsp is pretty much nonexistent for subwoofer use. It’s very limited and the crossover points are not usually what you want for home theater. So that point in time we are having to buy another DSP in addition to the amplifier. The other reason being the XLS series has a non-defeatable 30 Hz highpass on it. That makes it less than ideal for a subwoofer amplifier. It’s not to say that people don’t do it, but you’re definitely going to have to DSP around the loss that you’re going to get in the low end. I would much rather have an amplifier that allows me to get those lower frequencies by default for Subwoofer use.
@@Toid I agree. it does have a very limited crossover. and I did notice it has a hard time dipping below 27hz.
I know you like perfection. which is totally understandable. you want to total freedom of controlling low-end frequency. I guess if they had added some software that could be used to change the parameters internally it would be a decent choice. the main problem with the XLS is it has a low-end limit of right around 27hz. but it's not such a bad amp for those who want to DIY subs.. the problem I have with high-power class AB amps is their power consumption. that was the main reason I chose the
XLS 2002. I own a Yamaha RX-A6A in which you can totally control the crossover of each speaker including the sub. but I totally understand your point. Thanks
@@JadeB628 I agree with you. I would much rather it be a class D for the power consumption. The efficiency would be very nice. I also wish they would do some thing about the software like you had mentioned. And I don’t want you to think that I don’t think the XLS is a good choice. I would actually rather have the XLS than the Barringer myself. Just do the fact that I trust it to last longer.
@@Toid One of the main reasons I chose the Yamaha A6A was so I have full control of the crossover on each channel separately. and I knew ahead of time that the Crown XLS has limited crossover capability. another factor I took into consideration is the power it can produce without clipping. (I don't always trust the manufacturer's measurements. (I use them as a reference guide) and even if I needed only 300 WPC I would get an amp with twice the rated power in order to avoid clipping and distortion.
if Crown only added a USB and an ethernet port plus software utility to the XLS series could produce much better results.
You also brought up a very important point that most overlook. This amp needs a good-quality converter box with a preamp. those RCA inputs are very confusing. thinking that if you set the input sensitivity to .775 that the signal will be strong enough to drive the amp to its full potential. we know it's not true, and it also affects the DSP.
A lot of av receivers only produce 1 VRMS. from the Preouts. which is insufficient to drive an external amp. A good receiver should produce a bare minimum of 2 VRMS unclipped from the pre-out.
and that was one of the main starting points in choosing a new receiver. Yamaha gives you 4 VRMS unclipped. and 8 VRMS from the XLR outputs, that's an actual measurement, This is one of the most common mistakes done by many in the audio industry. especially when incorporating a Pro amp into an HT system.
BTW; have you heard of a company called stereo integrity? As crazy as it sounds I'm thinking of buying two hs-24. if you have any experience with them I'd love to hear your feedback.
anyways. I do enjoy your channel content we seem to have a lot of shared interest in this field. Thanks again,
Great video. Question tho, just wondering why was the Crown XLS 2502 not selected for this comparison considering it has DSP AND is stable and bridgeable.
The XLS has a 30hz high pass that you can’t bypass. This makes it less than ideal for subwoofer use. This means your low end rolls off steeper than other amplifiers mentioned in this video. Making it harder to obtain your low end.
@@Toid I didn't know that. I'm using mine to power my outdoor sub. Thanks dude. I pulled up a post on the DIY AUDIO Forum and this was their findings : "Contacted Crown. The XLS series of amps have a built-in rolloff of 12 dB per octave below 20 Hertz. Presumably this is to reduce rumble and other noises common to Hi Fi or PA systems."
Toid, Can you expand on this pls?
@@ben23a31 you can check out ASR who measured the XLS. You can see that the roll off starts around 100hz. audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/crown-xls1002-pro-amplifier-review.16211/
Is there a good way to trigger on/off those pro audio amps when you turn on/off your receiver? Like a trigger controlled power strip or something? Do you use something like that or do you turn them on/off manually?
I think there are some pro audio rack mount power strips/surge protectors that have the ability for adjustable time delay startup/shutdown with one device being sensed as the "master" and the other delayed components being the "slaves".
Check out the furman cn2400s. Can be found for ~1/2 MSRP if you shop around
I'll stay with the K2
How does the damping factor and slew rate (volts per micro-second) compare between these different amplifiers? I would think you'd want a decently high damping factor, especially for a home theater subwoofer?!🤔
I used to think that too, until I hooked up my lower damping factor Yamaha MX-1000 to my subs. Been there ever since.
xtis have a dampening factor of 500 at 20hz, the xls have a dampening factor of 200 and the now discontinued macrotech I series has a dampening factor over 5000 at 20hz... Slew rates for all are more than quick enough... Grab a 2502 or an xti for subs and you'll see what a real Amp can do, they control woofers like nobody's business.
@@bobking7347 the xls needs to go below 30 hz all the way to 10hz and it needs to do it with authority.
Behringer used to be a solid budget brand, now it creeped up in price so much that you might as well go Crown.
They were never good, seen more of their stuff blow their guts than I can count
With all the respect to everyone's opinion I own xti1002 , macrotech 3600 two of them, nx6000dsp. And inuke12000. For the subs I choose inuke12000
That’s the great thing about audio in general. We can all have an opinion, and even disagree, but as long as you find, what do you think works best in your environment, that’s all that matters. I’m glad you found one that works best for you.
I've used several fan modded inukes threw the years on 18" DIY subs. I've always felt they were a little sloppy. Guess I should've tried out these Crown xti series.
If I had a "sloppy sub", I'd be using an acoustic suspension sealed box instead of a ported box to tighten things up!!!🙄
@@fookingsog Yeah, but the inukes are junk overall, pretty much all of their amps are, sure some of their highend stuff have more advanced dsp then the budget xls drivecore amps, but, the crown xls stuff in terms of not only reliability but sound quality and also real measurements "especially the xls 1502 and up" kicks the inuke stuffs teeth in. This is especially true if you get the xti 4002 and crowns High q net system architect software. Then It really embarrasses the Behringer stuff.
@@fookingsog Agree. Sealed for SQ sound quality.
@@tinhatrancher904 Compression & Rarefaction of the enclosed space *IS* a component of the suspension!!!
@@fookingsog Agree. I don't like port noise!
I have a PA amplifier that I want to use for a subwoofer but it doesn't have a built in low pass filter, how would I go about filtering out the higher frequencies as I can't find a filter than can handle 3kw. Would I need a DSP or something? Thanks :)
You would want a Dsp of some kind. I’d recommend something like the Dayton 408 amzn.to/3PaTQg8 or the mini Dsp 2x4
The Crown XLS 2002 is dead silent unless driven hard and has rca inputs, It’s also $625.
Another really great amplifier. The only reason why I left it off this list is do the fact that the DSP section on the XLS is relatively limited compared to these. Unless they've updated it, the last time I used an XLS it's high pass cut off at 30 Hertz versus 20 HZ and below with these models. That typically is better for home theater.
Is the xls hp/lp filters defeat-able?
Curious, how do amps like these work with mains (towers)?
Cerwin Vega cvp2153 fits perfectly with crown xti 4002
For those with a minimum soldering ability ... just build a DIY amp based on Hypex or Anaview, it will blow away those model commented here for more or less the same price.
nope
@@bobking7347 cardboard hear detected!!!!
@@Leo_Vulkan nah, crown xti 4002 would smoke that hypex amp
@@bobking7347 xti series are absolutly bullshit, certified
its been tested the crown has no competition for the hypex
I really want to have a review from anyone who set up a combination between amcron xti 6002 and JBL STX 818s. What does it sound like? if it okay, i will do it. Thank you so much indeed!
I have used all of these amplifiers. I have to agree the Crown is the best sounding. The Behringer iPuke are just terrible amplifiers. I have to say I am not happy with the new digital Dayton audio amplifiers at all either. I have the AP1000 as my sub amp in my main listening area and it absolutely stomps the APA digital crap. I also got a 250-dsp plate amp for my studio sub build and I hate it. I am going back to a QSC power amp. It sounds beautiful... I just put a noctua fan in it yesterday. lol. The digital amp sub is going in the woodshop and I am building a new passive sub for the studio.
exactly
Dayton rules!!!!
How about yamaha px-5
the background rumbling sound you got on is really distracting for me, but great video nevertheless
this is true i own a dual 18 inch pa subwoofer that's 6400watts
what's going on with the dramatic background music looping?
Please help me, is this amplifier suitable for the Infinity RS 1B? thank you for your answer
Yes. This would be a great choice for those.
@@ToidThank you very much for your reply...I'm confused because on the Internet they write that I need a servo crossover or a servo amplifier
😂
No question the Crown is a good product but prices vary in different countries making the choice simplier. The Behringer is now going on 10 years based on iNuke DSP or refreshed NXD series. What is rather odd is how you have a comparison with the iNuke 6000 which has no DSP yet you then show images of Nx Edit software. So it seems your comparing two amps with DSP and one that does not have it..
Can you clarify please?
The one I have is the nu6000 without the dsp. The only difference in the nu6000DSP is the DSP. But I believe that a fair comparison needs to be all the amplifiers having DSP or all not having DSP. I think it's in the beginning that I said the inuke has been replaced with the NX series. As far as performance goes, I don't know that there's much of a difference between the two. But I can't properly evaluate the NX series since I don't have it and don't plan on purchasing it, especially at its current price point.
I see many reviews and tests of Crown and Behringer amps, but why no one tested Dynacord or Electro Voice?
I work like a DJ many years and from my experience I know, that Behringer is one of worst sounding amps and Dynacord and EV is the best sounding amps!
I building new speakers in home and searching amp for the subs and I cant find either one video in which have a Dynacord or EV amps and I'm wondering why no one tests this brands?
Why did you not compare the Crown XLS 2002 (or XLS 2502) amp rather than the Crown Xti 2002 amp? It is a class-D like the Behringer and Dayton. Applies to applies.
The XLS has an undefeated 30hz high pass which makes it undesirable for subwoofer usage. I talked about it here: ua-cam.com/users/liveCe42HMzOM6w?si=w5aISVjXGlSTaO_G check around the 1 hour and 21 minute mark
Great information. I was wondering why the ASR graphs showed the Crown to have a rolloff at 20 Hz. Truth to tell, I will be using this as a subwoofer amp for music only, so the rolloff might not be too obtrustive, although I'll check out the XTi version also. Do need to keep the DSP online permancently to retain the settings?
A XTi 2002 is a class D amp
Hey!!! I see the texas flag buc'ess hat. What city are you in? I'm in South Houston Clear Lake area
No, I just really like the hat. I’m not from Texas. Although there’s a lot of great people I know in Texas. Seems like a great state.
MC2 MC1250.
Long time ago I bought 10- XTI amps, mix of 2000 and 4000. NEW .. had to send back to Crown for repair after I used on my contracted events.. New amps I had to replace to do my business ... classless manufacturer ...
ive had all kinds of power amp in my bands over the years. lol!! one thing i found out? the good ones have some weight to them!! new class d is great . but i have friends that work in electronic shops and all agree? we are not going to get away from the old heavy workhorses for right now. i always thought the beringer i nuke idea is cool as hell!! light desent power.. but?? reliablity!!! thats the problem ticket. see alot in shops for repair, ect. and behringer like turbosound is european germany brand made in china in that city, i cant remember the name. but repalacment parts and customer service, not any good. buy from amazon? like being you own dentist!!! lmfao!! good luck!!
anyways?? great reviews!!!!!!
Saying not having rca, well balanced signals will drop the noise floor and fix if you have anything causing noise to be significantly reduced.
I wont touch rca after working with balanced, (xlr)
I wish the fools talking about ground loop hum would have been smarter and not misslead me when i was a child.
Optical is another workaround to jump outof a noisy digital output. The gnd on those will screw up anthing it touches. Balanced can help alot working around that.
On sub jobs i would never touch anything without balanced or optical separating the noise. Isolators i used just introduced new noise in the 8khz peak.
The problem is when using a home theater receiver your only output on it is RCA. If you’re going pro audio or a high end separate processor you can have the option of balanced, but for most home theater RCA is the only way to do it.
What the heck happened to the Dayton? Cant find it anywhere anymore.
I believe it was discontinued
@Toid that sucks big time. It was new. I have the other one and it don't have xlrs. In fact the one I have is so old it branded Leon. I hope someone brings it back. It was a gem.
Subwoofer. That’s somewhat a misnomer. The first part of the word, sub, means below. At first I took it to mean the speaker had response below 20Hz as the average decant speaker went down to 25 hz or so. But now everyone has a 2.1 system if not a full surround setup. A subwoofer that responds below what is audible makes total sense as it provides the impact of certain sounds in a movie. It truthfully has no musical purpose, unless the recording you’re listening to makes heavy use of a synthesizer. but now days a so called subwoofer cover frequencies from about 180 Hz to 35 or 35 Hz, which is what a regular woofer would provide. My mains are smaller two ways the have an F3 of 45 hz. My sub has an F3 of 23 hz, and 18 Hz occurs at about -6 db. But the Q of the subwoofer is .81, which rests a hump at 50 hz. This is a low as the Subwoofer’s amp crosses over. So my 2.2 system provides a full frequency response of 23Hz to 23 KHz. By themselves the mains are very musical while providing great imaging and detail. The sub isn’t muddy at all. Most mass produced subs don’t play much below 35-40 Hz and they, themselves need a subwoofer. why not just buy or build a decent speaker to begin with? It’s easy, profit margin and consumers who pay through the nose for buzzwords and industry hype instead of learning what is what and buying quality over hype. Sure good speakers are larger than your wife or girlfriend might like. Remind her that the kitchen is hers along with the bedroom where she has 30 pillows on the bed surrounded with poofy shit. Ok, rant over!
Why not just use a "tactile transducer" too?!🤔
Back of the bus pro......
CrowN all day long
The Crown is a Class-AB amp and it is not fair to compare that to a Class-D. An AB is always going to hit harder. Now, they are not the most power proficient, but the results speak for themselves.
Nonsense. Put the XLS2502 against the other 2 and they will still be stomped back into the ground where they belong. Crown knows their shit.
crown xls plays well with consumer electronics, fan never comes on, power is about right in the 1502 for an altimax 18". i am going hypex ucd2000 or nc 1200 next time though
I would recomment buying a FP14K Clone frome China if you are not affraid of loud fans. Those things will outperform the shown Amps with ease.
Crown Xti 2002=760$ - 2x800Waes/4Ω Behringer NX6000D=598$ - 2x1300Wrms/4Ω Dayton APA1200DSP=870$- 2x560Waes/4Ω it is not comperable. the beringer is far the best (acoustically too)
There's actually a really good discussion on the Forum about acoustically why the crown is actually considered better over the Behringer due to it's dampening factor. If you'd like to talk more about it, join up on the Forum and put your thoughts out there. It'd be interesting to see other points of view. As far as your pricing goes come I'm not sure where you're getting that. The Behringer right now is about $720 and the dayton apa is about $550 at least in the US. Of course if you're from another country the Dayton goes up considerably.
@@Toid regarding the pricing, i'm in australia and the crown is currently $2100 and the behringer is $1200, really curious why there's such a difference?
wondering if the crown made in the us? it could just be down to international shipping from the us being extremely expensive. for example, ordering even small things from the us is currently $300 shipping, and since the crown is class ab it's likely heavier and therefore more expensive.
this didn't used to be a problem, i got myself an emotiva xpa-2 about a decade ago and that thing was nearly 50kg shipped and only $150-200 in shipping.
Every single brand compared to Behringer is the best!
This comment literally made me laugh out loud
You always want subwoofers mono.
Oh, you meant bridge
Just get yourself a DBX Driverack or something similar and run it out of your reciever!