(NOS) National Osteoporosis Questioned About Calcium, Milk and Plant Based Diets
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- We had an interesting conversation with the National Osteoporosis Society. It came about after they reached out to us following our critical video about their press release and subsequent media tsunami, which suggested that dairy was required for healthy bones. The phone call was between myself and Robbie Lockie from Plant Based News, as well as Dominika Piasecka from the vegan society, and Sarah Wolf and Sarah Leyland from the National Osteoporosis society. Robbie Lockie led the call.
Find out more about their work here: nos.org.uk/
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I ate a high dairy diet all my life, I was diagnosed at 30 with osteoarthritis, osteoporosis, severe degenerate disc disease, and spinal stenosis. I have been a vegan for over four months, my inflammation and chronic pain has greatly subsided since going vegan, I have never felt healthier and never been happier. God bless all the youtubers who helped persuade me to go Vegan you have changed my life and I will be forever grateful, much love :)
tara lee E
It is wonderful that you have had such a wonderful experience with veganism. It has helped me too. I no longer have to worry about health issues. For many years as a vegan I am grateful to the person that introduced me to this way of life. It is a great blessing. May your journey be filled with more and more blessings.
Peace and love ❤️
tara lee E teach me what you eat.
I am a vegan who craves carb.. I have high metobolism and play video games which burns even more sugar in my body.
Could we share in recipe and greens? I hunger for satisfaction~
Forgotten Arrow I follow UA-camr cheaplazyvegan she has awesome videos with affordable quick and easy recipes. She is alot of fun to watch, I suggest you check her out she has helped me so much with meal ideas that don't break the bank. I eat a high carb diet, but dont restrict healthy fats like nuts, seeds, and advocado. I eat alot of oatmeal, potatoes, grains, beans, rice. I never calorie restrict, I even treat myself to a vegan burger or hotdog on occasion. I am new to this lifestyle myself, but would love to share recipes and help in any way I can, much love and carb away everyday :)
tara lee E yum, ill check her out ;]
You said you're having trouble satisfying your craving for carbs so I would suggest you eat as many potatoes (of any variety) until your hunger is satisfied. They did a study and found that potatoes are most satiating food by far. Number 2 was fish and number 3 was oats.
www.researchgate.net/publication/15701207_A_Satiety_Index_of_common_foods
And, of course, keep eating fruits, vegetables, and some legumes, nuts and seeds. But if satiety is your problem then potatoes should make up the bulk of your diet.
My mother no longer lactates so apparently I no longer need milk. Funny how that works.
Peace and love ❤️
Apparently it was too much for my kindergarten teacher to have my mum accompany me to school so I decided to let the tit go home!
As you like it!!
Peace and love ❤️
😂😂😂😂
Kindergarten??!! Oh my you should have been weaned long before then!! 😂😂
It always annoys me when people say that dairy is healthy but approximately 65 percent of the human population is lactose intolerant after infancy. This is very common for people that are of East Asian, West African, Arab, Jewish, Greek, and Italian descent.
ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/lactose-intolerance#statistics
milk.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000661
Shouldn't that be an obvious sign that we haven't even fully adapted to consuming dairy? So how can they label this as "healthy"?
My question to the National Osteoporosis Society is: why promote dairy consumption if there is no positive correlation with bone health? Why wait for more evidence to prove it's bad for our bones, rather than say there is no evidence it's good for our bones and therefore we can't recommend it. The article they published was clearly intended to put people off reducing their dairy consumption so they are acting on behalf of the dairy industry to perpetuate their myths about milk. If they had strong evidence that we need cows milk for healthy bones it would be a no brainer, but they don't.
I’ve just heard this conversation. That was very valuable. I hope the National Osteoporosis Society have read more studies since this was recorded.
You're being far more cordial that I would have been. Good examples of their PR bluster. They got their press release. They're agreeing with you, but they're not. It's very annoying. They say to keep following the research but without acknowledging existing conclusions, again that's just a PR tactic to delay and look like they agree when they don't. Smoking companies did that for a while. Taking the "let's wait more" tactic.
If they had made it a pointed effort to mention that all dairy nations of the world have the highest osteoporosis rates based on the science, and thus dairy should be specifically avoided at all costs to avoid osteoporosis they'd have to return their financing and maybe they could save money on their PR too. They'd need it to fight the diary industry. Dairy is paying them and they muddle the message so that Dairy isn't suing them. It's cowardly. Their "conversation" is not going to be about facts against dairy, they'll always muddle to include it. It won't change the press response.
Also any support to include vegan options may only be used to help tailor their message but at the end of the day dairy will still be included in their messaging and the press will focus on that. As long as dairy does not come under question, the news will not change.
Go look at who funds them -- four of the companies are pharmaceuticals. One makes Fosamax.
My mom was a vegetarian her whole life. huge fan of cheese. 4 years ago MRI scan shows 4 of her back bones were disolved. Literally! She had to go through a surgery where they place titanium screws in her back.
Sorry...that sucks....shes still into dairy?
Thanks very much to Robbie, Klaus and Dominika for their time this morning and for a really interesting chat.
OsteoporosisSociety take a look at the evidence please!
I'm impressed. This is some next level advertising.
OsteoporosisSociety It's great that you were willing to talk. I'd recommend really taking a good look at the evidence and making sure you know who's funding research. Your organization itself may be funded by the meat and dairy industry. If that is so, I would ask you to do what's best for people rather than your organization and not be swayed by those large industries. The world is changing and it's up to you to decide what side of history you're going to be on. Thanks again for being willing to talk and providing a very interesting debate.
OsteoporosisSociety you have 0% integrity. your supposed to tell us this infomation. not wait for trends to overpower sneeky funding. help find solutions please to maybe avoid people suffering from this in the first place. mind you then what would you do.
nutritionfacts.org/?fwp_search=Milk&fwp_content_type=video
Dairy is the worst sources of calcium.
you can get all the calcium you need from a variety of nuts, seeds and vegetables
fruits too
Anything that isn't dairy.
Calcium is found in 99% of fruits and vegetables.Also in 99% of Legumes, grains, nuts, seeds etc.
big-boobed 11 year olds with painful periods. gotta love that dairy.
Translation; "we really really want to Not recommend dairy, but there's just no funding. Please fund us."
All of this press and attention regarding actual medical studies showing the link between dairy intake and cancers/bone fractures within the past 2 years really has them on their toes. They clearly are worried about appearing as if the information they put out has been influenced by the dairy companies and they made sure to stop accepting 'donations' 😉 from them in 2015.
Great chat guys. They know damn well they will be under the spotlight and to APPEAR squeaky clean.
And as always,
#VeganForLife ✊🏼
Fabulous that they are open to discussion with you. The Society seemed to be barking up the wrong tree. I had heard that bone health requires ample silica (and that calcium is a myth) and also resistance exercises strengthen the bones too. Nothing is isolated in the body, so I hope that they will change their marketing scope to exclude the dairy myth.
she spoke on BBC Radio 4. said that our children are at risk of calcium deficiency. said that we need to ensure that our kids get the equivalent of 1.5 glasses of milk a day. recommended milk as a the convenient source of calcium. but the most important thing was the interviewer that got her to say it unambiguously and exposed her as a shill.
"Milk = Strong bones" reminds me "More doctors smoke camels than any other cigarette" from the '60s ...
Her claims that there is no evidence that dairy is a cause of osteoporosis are false. It would have been good if there was a plant based health professional with accurate information on the subject to debate this topic with her.
They need to check out Dr. Greger.
6:30 Oh no, let's not frighten people with reality.
Oh I know exactly! We must hide from that big scary truth stuff that will save our bones. Totally yeah
+Frenchblue8 lmao
Fucal " without our bones we "d be like gelatin( god-forbid) thank goodness for my skeleton!".
Courtesy, The Bubble
Guppies☺' A Bunch of Bones'
+Frenchblue8 that lyric sounds oddly morbid, i imagined a boneless body xD
Fucal it's actually only a part of a lyric from an educational kids show in a song teaching kids about their bones. If I could remember how to post a link I would do that LOL but just go to UA-cam and type in Bunch of Bones the Bubble Guppies. the lyrics are actually really clever totally amazing for children of all ages and it's musically wonderful as well.
she moon-walked so good Michael Jackson would be impressed!
Gotta love how they dances around what they been asked lol
well done plant based news.
A dairy company could set up companies to donate and so it would not look like it was them. This does happen, donation laundering. Are NOP going to give out a press release about how we should eat our greens to have strong bones?
How often do they "suggest" nondairy alternatives to people concerning their osteoporosis conditions? Really, how educated are the "nursing" staff in veganism and plant based calcium rich foods?
Edited because I didn't finish my statement!
I want to know what they tell people about plant based sources of calcium. Do they say anything? I don't think so.
Peace and love ❤️
Peace.Love.Vegetables Hi. I am about to qualify as a nurse next year after being seconded by my trust. I became vegan about the same time I started my training. The more I go into this, the more I realise I would like to do something else. I believe in prevention rather than treatment( I do agree that accidents are another thing and require immediate intervention) and I would like to go into something else as a career. Any suggestions?
Although it requires nursing training you could look into nurse midwifery. I have been a midwife for many years and have encouraged many people to live vegan lifestyles. Midwifery is more intervention oriented if you make it so. I prefer a holistic approach and have found it to be a very satisfying career. I retire soon so am already mourning my loss of my patient family.
Think carefully about what you want to do for the rest of your life. The dreams of youth are the regrets of the mature. Follow your heart. It is a very important decision.
Peace and love ❤️
Peace.Love.Vegetables I am a 37 year old male with wife and a 1 year old baby. I was thinking more like natural healing with some kid of holistic aproach. I also have a keen interest for Chiropody(Podiatry) but at that time when I was looking for a course regarding this, thats when I went for interview for nursing course secondment. Thank you though for the kind words :D I ll figure out something that I can enjoy a lot. I love helping people and I have a hospitality background so I might go "solo" even though I enjoy team work.
japanluv - many diabetic people, both Type 1 and (the exponentially more common) Type 2 have specific foot problems. As T2 diabetes is skyrocketing - perhaps some vegan diet counseling for diabetic
patients, whilst you work on their foot issues, could be rewarding for you...?
Drunk Vegan Gal Thank you. Thats what I was thinking and plus I can come up with a more natural foot cream or so:D Have a lovely weekend:D
huge props to NOS for showing up and having this conversation. Every society in the States has cowered into the corner and won't take calls about these types of issues. So I always take not when charities/non profits etc stand up and are willing to chat. Huge props.
And why aren't they putting this out into the wider world rather than just vegan world? They won't as they will loose funding. They are deflecting the flak rather than addressing the issue.
If I'm drinking any mammal milk it'll be human milk because I'm a human.
I know... mind blown.
It's *so* refreshing to hear a measured conversation about this on UA-cam - well done both parties for coming at the subject with an open mind and intelligence
I ticked all the boxes for NOT getting osteoporosis: exercise, sunshine, dairy etc as well as being vegetarian. Result: 5 compression fractures of the lumbar spine. So it is hard to believe in dairy. I am now on a Plant based diet. We have a big drive in New Zealand to eat dairy for healthy bones and after a lot of reading and some hard experience I think it needs a good re-think. Keep up the investigation.!
This is comical to me, denial in its finest form. These ladies were sweating hard during this conversation. You put out the press release and you get funding, no matter how small percentage (probably still equivalent to their wages) from the Dairy Industry.... it's a no brainer, you're not capable of releasing non-biased information. The US is even worse unfortunately. Thanks PBN for another awesome video, keep up the great work!
really excellent :) thanks for making this
her voice sounds like she knows shes on the wrong side, and she is only on their side because they pay her, despite her morals not aligning with that
Well done Klaus!
Thank you sooooooo sooooooo much for sharing this call, it is brilliant to see the NOS admitting that dairy is not "essential" for bone health
Who is deficient in calcium ? Where are these people?
such a good conversation. I am so glad that the nos was willing to be open to this kind of conversation.
I smell guiltiness
Thank you so much for watching...
She drinks milk 😳
Yeah but she's having second thoughts..... her voice says it all
not only is it well known by health experts (and ppl with interest) that dairy isnt neccessary but that it has a negative impact on bone health
Great video! Thanks!
Thanks for the video guys. I am blending nettles and adding to water daily now to help my osteoporosis. I believe pesticides are a problem! I am trying to grow organic microgreens and sprout broccoli seeds to promote bone health. I consume wild herbs like plantain daily. Exercise is important too. Vitamin D from the sun.
I keep a health diary and have found that dairy makes me allergic to animals. Wheezing, sneezing phlemg etc. I have no phlemg at all now thanks to my plant based diet. Yet my daughter and her dad cough up a lot of phlemg daily. Both eat dairy. My point is, sadly dairy causes health problems in some people. So we should address this, and look at the other problems it might cause. There are plenty of You Tube videos talking about how people have cured their asthma by not consuming dairy. But the media does not seem to pick up on this.
Doctors should be encouraging their patients to keep health diaries so we can learn from people's diets.
I don't want to be a health burden on my daughter, which is why I changed my diet. I am not perfect.and I do fall off the wagon sometimes. But now we are getting a dog, I know there is no way I will be able to eat dairy as dairy makes me allergic to pets.
Is it the antibiotics they pump the animals with, who knows?
if there is not enough evidence that dairy is harmful, one of the NOS ladies said that, is there any that it is helpful? if not why is it being promoted?
Basically they wasn't going to upset any powerfull companies or brands. but the "service" is supposed to be there to help us. more buildings just paying wages.
WAIT! What if the dairy industry actually payed the MEDIA?!
The objection to the correlation between higher bovine dairy intake and higher fracture rates is that it is "just a correlation and doesn't prove anything" misses the point entirely. Any hypothesis must explain the observed data and do so better than any other alternate explanation in order for it to be judged to be a valid scientific hypothesis. The basic hypothesis on offer is "calcium from bovine breast milk (BBM) is good for adult human bone health". For this to be true it must match observations and make predictions. The obvious prediction that would flow from this hypothesis is that the more BBM consumed, the lower rates of osteopenia and osteoporosis. if you plot the rate of osteoporosis against the average national consumption of bovine breast milk the resulting correlation should be negative, that is as total milk consumption goes up the rates of osteoporosis should go down. However, when you look at the actual trends it is exactly the reverse of this.
Does this prove that the hypothesis that BBM is good for adult human bone health is false? No, because it is indeed "just" a correlation. BUT what it does mean is that for it to still be true despite the data showing exactly the opposite of what would be expected is that globally in country after country there must be some other factor in the national diet and/or lifestyle that A) exactly trends with the consumption of BBM (i.e. the more BBM consumed the more of this other factor is consumed) and B) that this other factor has a stronger negative effect on bone health than the positive effect that BBM has. So while it is still theoretically possible for milk to be good for bones, the scientific hurdle that this hypothesis has to clear in order for it to be scientifically true is now very very much higher.
And needless to say the converse hypothesis that BBM is harmful to adult human bone health is now very much easier to verify since it is extremely well supported by observations. No hidden factor is required to explain the discrepancy between theory and data. Instead research can move on to the next phase and see if biologically valid pathways by which consumption of BBM can negatively affect bone health. And here the picture isn't as crystal clear with additional research needed to fully explore the methods by which consumption of BBM is causing bone health to suffer.
BUT that in no way means that we have to wait until those detailed biochemical studies are completed before we can make recommendations about the consumption of BBM. if consumption of BBM were the only viable method to get sufficient calcium, then perhaps we would have to recommend its continued consumption, but of course it is not. There are many plant based sources including plant milks. So if nothing the precautionary principle should come into play and we should avoid consuming breast milk of all mammalian species until we know for certain that it is safe to do so.
I couldn't listen to it all. Too much smoke and mirrors from the NOS reps to fight through. Hope it went well! 2 1/2 years without animal products and I've never felt healthier. My recent health check up was my best ever! :)
it needs further investigation
i feel they may not want a cure, no more will payments
she sounds all most pained to talkl
Everyone needs to watch "WHAT THE HEALTH". From the same creators of cowspiracy.
"What The Health" is such an important film. Can plant based news organise a whole "month" of all vegans having a "what the health" profile picture on facebook? We are much more effective at delivering a message when we act in unison and collaboration with each other.
I love you guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was diagnosed with colitis I was on pentasa medication. 8 pills a day along with pain meds just to get through the day. Been vegan since Nov 20th 2016. Today all my symptoms have disappeared. I take zero medication. the power of plants is amazing , I will forever be vegan.
How dare you, bringing impovershment to the dairy and pharmaceutical industries!!!
Even if you get plenty of calcium, you must have enough vitamin d and vitamin K2. K2 is the most important but doctors never tell osteoporosis patients about it even though there are countless studies showing how important it is. It’s sick.
Excellent - Phew! I've had a few vegan conversions recently and then all this rubbish comes out. Boy did I need that back up. (You Tube just told me off for sharing too many videos!) Thank you so much for this.
At the end of this phone chat I would have really liked to have heard both your opinions of the chat you just had
I must say I am disappointed. Studies have shown that the more dairy consumed the more brittle your bones. This has even been published in What the health. It shows how the acidic reaction we have to animal protein found in dairy turns out PH acidic. Then our bodies needs the calcium in dairy to neutralise this. But that is not enough so our bodies then leach the calcium straight out of our bones... proven. This is in more than one study. This point should have been driven home harder. But otherwise a good interview.
It is not just about calcium. I think dairy is inflammatory. I have broken both my hips due to low bone density, and I find that my doctor who supposedly specializes in osteoporosis has only has two natural remedies for osteoporosis: calcium and vitamin D. I feel that this approach is sort of pathetic and uninformed. Casein in dairy is said to cause cancer. Some people are looking for ways to rationalize consuming dairy, so the wrong message is well received by these people. Great video!
wonder what she really thinks
Squeaky Vegan "We really aren't meant to be drinking the breast milk from a cow, shit, now to pretend I don't feel this way!"
I think it was pretty obvious it was dawning on her that PBS have way more knowledge and that she actually agrees.
The evidence is overwhelming!! You guys were too bloody polite!!😡😡
That smoking gun intro... =) good hook, listening now.
for strong bones, vitamins k1 and k2 and vitamin d. and a whole food plant based diet!
I am not aware we know that lady🙄 porky pies!!!!
Does anyone here know if I have to continue taking Calcium/Vit D tablets. I've beeen vegan 18 months, diagnosed with osteoporosis about 15 or 20 years ago. I only take B12. I gave up the Calcium Tabs about two weeks ago as I'm under the impression that as I'm eating a very balanced WFPB diet no oils based on starch (Dr John McDougall fan) I'll be fine. I was put on Fossimax for about 12 or 15 years and it did no good whatsoever, got worse. Then they put me on Prolia 6 monthly. Took myself off that after two shots, I had a bad reaction. I'm totally against all medications and am now begining to not trust non plant based docs and the pharma industry. So question is will I stay off the Calcium. I was only taking one anyways
Why do all the nutritionists out there have to be trained in the old way. It bugs me. In a place near me they do courses for Diabetes run by Nutritionists and they are advising them to eat meat and dairy. I asked the nutritionists if she ever heard of a WFPB diet reversing Type 2 Diabetes and she looked at me as if I had two heads!!!!
They say there's not enough convincing evidence not to promote dairy and to promote plants instead. Did they need any convincing evidence to promote dairy? Or is it just pull a food out of a hat?
Babble babble & she is still babbling 🙄
It has been put on my medical records by an NHS HRT nurse that there is a problem with my vegan diet being lacking in calcium and therefore putting me at a risk of osteoporosis which she won't remove despite there being no evidence for it. She hasn't asked about what I eat and she isn't a dietician. She won't say what studies support it either. My grandma and mother ate a diet high in dairy. They were given calcium supplements and still had bad osteoporosis. The level of bias towards diary is institutionalised within the NHS.
"quick to act" they say. Let´s hope that is the case.
okay I stopped dairy products ,also I'm trying to avoid all meat butt i need protein
Maisoon Al not sure if you're trolling? Protein presents in every single plant. The ones that have more concentration are things like beans, lentils, soy, peas, corn etc. You don't need as much as you think you do, even if you're weight lifting.
You must not worry about protein intake, but about fiber. Do you get enough fiber?
Maisoon Al just eat nuts, legumes and seeds.
The problem is I have irritable bowel syndrome and eating legumes plus some veggies worsen it...im thinking of trying hemp protein
Irritable bowel syndrome means your bowels are inflammatory. And they are inflammatory because they got acidic.
Its best if you just cure them, than resorting in secondary ways like hemp protein.
I have a friend who has inflammatory bowels too, and he tried to go plant based, but he says those veggies with fiber hurt him much, he can eat only watery veggies like cucumber, so he just got back to eating meat and such. And he got the easy excuse that veggies just dont work for him.
For me this is not a solution.
First u have to see to fix the bowels, and then u can go on with normal eating.
For to fix acidic bowels, you have to alkalize them. And you alkalize them with alkaline foods. Fruits and veggies.
But if the acidosis is heavy, and fiber in veggies make them hurt, maybe you have to go with more drastic measures, like fruit juice and such, until the inflammation calms, and then u can slowly introduce more veggies and plant foods.
I dont know....just food for thought.