Must LITHIUM BATTERIES be BALANCE CHARGED ? #15
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- Опубліковано 19 тра 2016
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Some years ago I installed an extra 4 kWh battery pack in my 2008 Toyota Prius, it consisted of two packs 24V of 6 LiFePO battery banks in series. The 48V was then converted into 200V and set parallel to the existing battery. After a couple of months the capacity dropped rapidly and the BMP kept moving charge from one cell to another. I decided to take the BMS completely out of the system and within two weeks the cells fully recovered and I got the full capacity back. The problem with a BMS is that it looks at voltage only, not charge.
Nice explanation, thanks for the video!
Clicked play, was interested, and a couple seconds later it had been 13 minutes.
Good video
atheist?
hentai nat Yep Yep
Bro, nice to meet you.
@ Michael Ramey, Exactly the same here.
Random question. LOL!!!
Been in electronics a looong time Best explanation I have heard. We are never too clever, or too old to learn.
Goddamn crystal clear explanation, better than my university professor !!!
Great explanation. Most people that complain and criticize never actually do what they are criticizing about. On the other hand, you are speaking from experience! Keep up the great videos!
jimginnyohio,
Thank you
@@bukolaayeni78 hello Baba, are you in the country? Can you join in a Powerwall project?
@@Cooldipo where is this going on? Interested
jimginnyohio, you explained beautifully, I own and operate a restaurant and thank God that I get very few comments coming from those kind.
This video is awesome. Thank you for the time and knowledge you put in to this!
Yay! Less cost of charging and alot less thinking involved in this aspect now. Very clear, thank you
Jehu, I love your style my friend and appreciate all that you do and teach. Great thing, please keep it up!
Professions are compartmentalized quite much so everything is a larger journey each time we dive in to a subject.
EXCELLENT presentation, keep these good vids coming, very informative!
Haha I love how the video end with your high hopes for the drone to help storytelling and it crashes at first launch. I almost picked myself. Keep up the good work sir you are not only brilliant but entertaining at the same time
great video man, there was an article in march version of home power magazine that covered this very nicely, they took 48 cells all manufactured from the same place and on the same day, they then split them into 2 groups, they made packs of 4 cells. on 6 of the packs they installed a very commonly used universal battery balancer on them. then they left the other 6 un-balanced as a pack, then they ran them under loads using the same load over and over to simulate usage on the cells to use up the cycle life of the cells tell the capacity of the cells starts to drop. in the testing they found out that the cells that were hooked up to a battery balancer during its charge cycle reached its 1/2 cell capacity limit 37% faster than the cells left unbalanced, the theory behind this is that when the balancer is balancing the cells its applying a micro load the cell that needs balanced in the pack and when it does this the pack voltage drops and the charger sees this drop in voltage and starts charging the pack over and over tell the cell is considered balanced, these micro loads and charge cycles during the balancing phase takes micro portions off the cell cycle life over time, resulting in that cell wearing out quicker... the only benefit of balancing the pack is to get slightly longer pack life out of a single charge when in use... the more cells you have in a pack that spreads the amp draw reduces your need for balancing, because the cells will stay closer in voltage as the cell capacity increases on the same load over time..
Thats really interesting. Do you have a link to this article? I think for my off grid batter bank I will be going down the route of LiPo, Hobbyking has some great deals right now on some packs and I can build a 1.5kwh 48v ish pack for very cheap. My concern was balancing but I think I will go down the route of a Meanwell variable 1.5kw supply that I can vary by a microcontroller. This will monitor cell / pack voltage and give me complete control.
I have balance chargers already so no problem doing a balance charge every 10 cycles perhaps?
William link would be a plus and thank you
A link to this would be great
I appreciate the time you put in writing this . It really helps me , you are the best 💪🏽🎰
I made a parallel pack of five 18650 cells to run a small 3.5v lamp. I charged 4 of the cells individually to the exact same voltage and forgot to charge the fifth because I wasn't going to use any battery monitor for this pack. I solder all five cells together and leave it sitting there for about an hour. I remember I didn't charge the 5th cell so I disassemble the pack to charge that one cell. To my surprise all 5 cells were exact same voltage 4.1. I know that the 5th cell was 3.8v. I guess those 4 fully charged cells charged that last one to equal them all out.
Entertained and highly informed.
I enjoy your relaxed, friendly and authoritative style. Makes me feel comfortable heeding what you say and confident to act upon your advice...
Thank you.
Thanks for the practical demonstration. It helped me to understand it better.
flip crashed that drone in the first attempt is so motivating!!!!. unlessit breaks something !!!!!! keep up
I finally got your point, Jehu. so it's not so much about perfectly matching cells, it's about designing the whole pack big enough that your discharge rate per cell stays below the discharge rate of the worst performing cell.
Now, how do you track that discharge rate cells, by the way ? do you write down how long it takes to discharge from 4.1V to 3.2V ?
I guess i can do this with the BTC3100 which tracks mAh and time elapsed during discharge (processing 4 cells separately at 1A "in parallel"). waddyathink ?
Thanks amigo.
Keep on trucking ! (from France)
Great video as always Jesus, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience
Love your channel man. You’re a good teacher. 🤙
This is so cool. Great explanation using interesting but relevant side notes and visual
That was very informative, I'm glad u explained it like that. Thanks William. Great Video
Great demonstration. Love your channel.
Great demo. Really shows the difference what a high load can do to a battery.
This video is so incredibly smooth. Damn.
Excellent video, that's why you're "THE BOSS"
I learned something new thank you very much.
What a helpful video, thanks so much Jehu!! You're single-handedly making the DIY battery world a safer place (:
Thanks man, this video was very helpful to me.
hola como esta.
queria saber cual pagina es de confianza para comprar baterías sony. si me puedes recomendar alguna
Very good explanation, thanks!
♥ thx buddy, you're videos are really great
Awesome knowledge man! Love techy nerdy stuff
Thank you JehuGarcia; this was a very helpful topic and you did an excellent job of explaining it. Btw; I like your T-shirt JAG35; nice graphics. Is it your creation?
Another great video! Thanks for sharing.
Would you mind showing how you figure out what the weakest cell in a group is? Also, in a large pack (or maybe a small one?), is there a standard C rating per cell that you try to stay below during max charge/discharge current to ensure that all cells in the pack will charge evenly?
Unrelated, but I'd love to see a follow-up to your bottom-balancing video - one where you demonstrate the process and how it's done. :)
Good video. I learned something. Thank you!
Thank you! Keep up the gr8 work.
Dang Jehu I just may have learned something and that is amazing . Thanks mon
I didn't need the long-drawn-out and simplified explanation of why some batteries may need balancing while others do not... but you did such a magnificent job at it that I just continued listening for fun lol 😅👍
hello i have a question for you i just made a battery pack with brand new samsung35E 15s6p with bms . Now in case i wanna charge it without bms can i connect the charger (60v 7 ampere) directly to the discharge cable?
Excellent analysis, keep it up
great example demo. best I've seen
I wanted to ask you a question:
What do you think about charging a 52v 20ah Li-ion battery of an ebike without balancing?
my BMS died a couple of days ago and I am debating whether to get a replacement BMS. I know how important it is to stop before low voltages and can do that with a precise monitoring app. I still have my old charger that I was thinking to modify so that each cell gets a maximum 4.1v instead of 4.2v.
Thank you in advance for your help
Very comprehensive, thanks! :)
Delta in voltage grows as well when getting fully charged or discharged at 90% (I see it on the Winston 200Ah)
@jehugarcia if you don't use BMS, what is your methodology again in charging without one? I use a BMS but one time the BMS got busted and my LIFEPO4s got screwed.
Another great tutorial ...and a good looking tele on that back wall that I can see.....
Thanks for this video! Now I understand better the use for a BMS :D
Hi Jehu, I just joined yesterday and today I opened a battery froma dead laptop and found all 8 cells are in good shape. I made a small battery bank and my led lights are working on that. Thanks for your teaching. Question:- after putting 100 used 18650 cells in a powerwall how to see ballance charging and which battery is stop working aftyer few months?
useful, thanks !
Keep on trucking ! (from France)
Is it usually/always necessary to change the charger if you go from Nicad to 18650's if you have approximately the same voltage value. (For battery drill)
Great video, and e need some help here....
I have a electric scooter 48v/52v 18ah battery and the BMS died, can i remove the BMS, and start to cherge the pack by the thick positive and negative wires? Without the risk of explsion..? i only have a 42volt battery charger that i use in my electric scooters, lke Ninebot and Xiaomi... thanks on advance :)
I just have a question I have build 60v battery pack 20ah with lishen cell 4000mah after 4 months start to get fully charge 66.7 in place off 67.2 are this can be need balancing or thats normal
Jehu.....GREAT video , as always ! What year and style ( high windows/vents )is your V-Dub, Samba ?
I'm using thunder sky lifep04 3.2 60ah batteries in a 12v solar powered system for an RV. Would I need to balance these?
The absolute hands alltheway down college level clarity. U Rock !
Thank you for explaining this so clearly.
Im trying to build a 48volt 20Ah+ battery. How can I determine how much the motor will draw and the cells supply? And how can I figure out whether it will need balancing or not?
Perfect explanation man, thanks.🍻
thats amazing , i was just thinking about this the other day , good info thanks ..
No shenanigans just excellent information. I like your style, you are very smart. Awesome electric bus you got there too. Thanks
You say you don't balance the cells, are you using a bms and letting that balance ? Or do you have some way of monitoring you battery health ? I'm looking at making my own pack and dont want to add in more expense or difficulty.
If you have covered this already could you please post a link to the video
Thanks
Good explanation, so I could do a powerwall using the cell log 8, or two of them to check my packs periodically?
I think I remember you saying that you dont leave them connected because they ironically unbalance the packs over time?
A question. I want to power my Chauvet Slim Par 56 LED lights using 18650 Li Ion cells. The battery will be mounted on the outside bottom of the light instrument. My plan is to use 9 cells ... wiring 3 sets of three in series then connecting the 3 sets in parallel. May I ask your advice in wiring this battery and using the correct onboard (PCB) charger. Do I need to use balance wiring? I am hoping to get about 6 to 8 hours when fully charged. Thank you.....I love your videos/ Very informative.
Best Video Ever! Thankyou.
Nicely explained and clearly stated. When most of us recycle all kinds of 18650 cells from old laptop batteries I'd bet most of us worry about charging and discharging them out of recommended voltage ranges. I just use two B6 chargers to manage the individual parallel banks so they are balanced. Since the cells vary wildly I never get them perfectly balanced but as you said, when they discharge at a rate of 2 amps each it doesn't matter.
I can't find a Cell Log 8 that is the same as you got there, are there others you recommend, maybe a video on some different types.
I liked the video, I was curious though what did you use for short circuit/overloads for vehicle
I love you man , this video has the best explanation on youtube . You are the best 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Fantastic video, I'm speechless...
Tesla module from model s85, do i need some extra BMS or not? If yes, what do you suggest? Thanks
I flew RC heli's with those sort of LIPO packs and many I knew didn't balance charge EVERY time; we would check the voltages of the individual cells, but often that was a cursory check done towards the end of charging, and /or as part of pre-flight. We would preach to new flyers to always balance charge, but that crowd often used the manufacturer's charger which charged thru the balancing leads anyways. However, we often didn't practice what we preached; there were many other factors far more important than balance charging.. In an ideal world, we'd balance charge every pack; but it takes longer, and always bleeds out some power doing so.
I have one ? Is there a way to trickle charge my cordless drill battery’s during down time like months of not using them, I getting sick of buying battery packs because I forgot to keep them at 60 percent charge. I keep my motorcycle battery on a battery tender and it’s fine every year after sitting for the winter. Sorry to ramble on just getting frustrated with having to buy new battery’s for my cordless tools. Tools are lithium ion packs
Very informative. Thanks!
I want to make a 18650 li-ion pack for my old motorcycle, but idk if I need to do 3 cells or 4? And does it need to be balance charged?
I still need to check the voltage output of my '71 Honda CB350, but I need to upgrade the regular & rectifier to a newer combo unit first. But I'm just curious cuz I've seen lithium batteries on the market, specifically targeted for motorcycles, and they seem to be 4 cell packs with no charge circuit or BMS or anything at all. I just don't know if it would be ok to use one with a much older and less reliable motorcycle electrical system.
Is it safe to use a 3V zener diode to protect a battery? The zener diode connected to gate of a MOSFET that controls the battery's output with a pull-down resistor of course.
I'm back, great vids. I got lost working somewhere.
Best explanation I've heard, good video
Hi i have build a 14s 6 battery 18650, can i charge my battery pack with the charger without bms? because the charger only goes to 58,8 v? Hope for anwser
experience is what matters most. thanks !
Hi can I use 10 laptop cells in parralel 14 in series 140 in total they are half 2000mah and half 2200mah but all together so they will be 50 amps continuous 5a per cell can I use a 45 a bms with this pack it is only 5 a out will this be ok on a ebike
Thank you for your Layman's explanation.
Can I parallel 2250mah and 2200?
Btw, it's 12pcs 2250mah bat and 12pcs 2200mah...
I'm planning on making 3s4p of those 2250mah and 3s4p of 2200mah... then combine that 2packs as 1 in parallel ..or maybe 3s8p with 4pcs 2250mah and 4pcs 2200mah in parallel...
Informative, thank you!
Is a 18V Li-ion power tool battery demanding enough to require balance charging? And or a battery management system?
jeh i need 624 lipo pouch 5000mah 100c bateries do you know where i can get them
Great explanation bro cheers for the info
Good info right here! This is something no people usually tell you. I've been wondering do you really really have to balance charge all the cells each and everytime.
This is a perfect video! Your explanation is clear. I have a question. Your example for uneven discharge rates was batteries wired in series. Does the same principal of discharging a cell to the weakest cell apply to cells wired in parallel? Love what your doing. I am newly subscribed. Thanks
Hi i have dilemma about charging 18650 in parallel. If i have ,say 40x 18650 connected in parallel xxxx mAh and i want charge it. Can i just connect charger to + and - right ? Any balance charging ?
I read some article about parallel charging and i saw this:
When charging batteries in parallel, the voltage of all batteries will be exactly the same the whole time. So, when the charger stops at 4.2V, all batteries will be exactly full.
Is this correct ?
On your EV do you have a system to prevent over discharge & over charge of the whole pack? Interested if you are having to manually prevent these possibilities or if you put some sort of electronic control in.
But how do you protect your 18650 cells from over-charging and under-discharging.? I want to make a 20S12P (or more parallel) li-ion pack for my E-scooter and looking for te best, safe and cheapest way to do this. Any ideas for this.?
Hi
Are batteries in M18 5A of Milwaukee impact gun, balance charging ?
This was a helpful item you pointed out, it'll be useful to know the discharge rate of the lowest denominator battery in order to get an EV to run for longer. In student FSAE there is an endurance test which will benefit from this 🙂
Interesting, but confusing. Applications vary, for instance if I need a lot of power (50A @ 28V) for a very shout period of time (45 second), with a lot of time for trickle charging in between, can I get away from balancing. Or if I always trickle charge to a lower voltage can I get away from balancing? BTW it is a LiFePO4 battery pack.
This is probably the most informational video I have seen yet on conceptualizing a battery pack for my electric vehicle. Thank you for clarifying many things. My vehicle is powered by two 500 watt, 48V hub motors. The current battery pack consists of 4 Sealed Lead Acid 12 volt batteries. Very heavy and doesn't deliver the range I need. My desire is to build a Life Po battery pack of 14s7p to provide me with 550-720 watt/hours of use. with 98 cells, I was confused about balancing vs. monitoring. Your explanation of power drain was very helpful. Since there is doubt in my mind about many of the Balancers ability to actually balance cells, I think I will stick with not having a BMS. It make further sense as I will not be requiring more than 20 amps of power at any time (most likely 10 amps steady), so the drain should be low compared to the capacity (below 2C if I am correct). Thanks again.
Good solid into - thanks!
Thanks for explanation !
You are a great teacher. Thank you.
Great video! I have a question, do you need to balance charge multiple lithium ion cells in a parallel configuration? If I'm using six 18650s in parallel, and I have all the positives and negatives connected together, do I have to charge the cells individually or can I charge them while still connected to the same rail?
both, paralleled cells become one larger cell
Interesting.. what sort of discharge rates do you use in your electric car?
Made 2 18650 battery packs. A 4s7p and 3s1p. Charged 4s7p using a 30v output connected to a buck charger. I set buck to 15.8 volts and limited current to 1 amp. On the 3s1p I used a 12v output adapter that plugs into 120v. On both, the BMS had an output and a charge input connection. I connected both to the BMS charge input to charge. The batteries worked great. But when I tried to charge the second time the charge wires got hot. On examination I found all batteries measured .4v. Should I not use the BMS charge input and just use the BMS output connection to charge? Lost a lot of money. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Probably not the proper place to post this but didn’t know where else to go. You are obviously very knowledgeable and maybe you can help. Thanks so much for your videos.
Cool video, so what type of batteries are you running in your EV? Would you still run the EV without balance charging if you were using smaller format batteries such 18650s? (assuming the appropriate number of parallel circuits of course)
+Stewart Nagle 24kWh of Tesla 18650 cells & 20kWh of LiFePO4 prusmatics