The Plane that Was Deadly Even to Itself
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- Опубліковано 2 тра 2024
- It was 1956, and Grumman Aircraft had developed a new aircraft that could counter the MIG-15, a Soviet jet fighter establishing its dominance over the skies of Korea, engulfed in a furious war between Communism and the Free World.
Like the Mig, Grumman had introduced the F11F Tiger: an innovative, swept-wing carrier-based fighter that had already achieved an impressive Mach 1 speed during its maiden flight, turning it into the second US Navy aircraft to reach supersonic speeds.
Test pilot Thomas Attridge was now testing the Tiger’s 20-millimeter guns off the coast of Long Island while simulating a dogfight. The pilot aimed at the ocean, then fired four quick, accurate bursts and immediately went into a dive. Precisely 11 seconds later, he noticed something unusual.
Something had struck his Tiger’s canopy glass and one of the engine intake lips. The Tiger began going down immediately. Attridge was sure it was a bird, but the truth was much more unusual…
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Join Dark Skies as we explore the world of aviation with cinematic short documentaries featuring the biggest and fastest airplanes ever built, top-secret military projects, and classified missions with hidden untold true stories. Including US, German, and Soviet warplanes, along with aircraft developments that took place during World War I, World War 2, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Cold War, the Gulf War, and special operations mission in between.
As images and footage of actual events are not always available, Dark Skies sometimes utilizes similar historical images and footage for dramatic effect and soundtracks for emotional impact. We do our best to keep it as visually accurate as possible.
All content on Dark Skies is researched, produced, and presented in historical context for educational purposes. We are history enthusiasts and are not always experts in some areas, so please don't hesitate to reach out to us with corrections, additional information, or new ideas. - Авто та транспорт
The F-11 was the nicest flying plane I ever flew. It would practically fly itself in formation and was easy to land. It was under powered with the J-65 and didn't have the range that the F-8 did. The F11F-1F reengined with the J-79 was a world beater in performance, easily topping Mach 2. It was as fast as the F-104 and had much better handling characteristics. Grumman offered the -1F to the Germans and Japanese who's pilots much preferred it to the 104, but bribery won out over capability.
Very much appreciate reading comments from firsthand experience. Absolute gold. Thanks.
@goodbonezz1289 that's an AI generated comment. Sorry.
@@connorbaniak really??..why do you say that? It seems like such a sincere, cogent statement from personal experience, I never would have guessed it to be AI…what about it, tells you it’s AI?
It was such a generic looking ac. Like something every 11 year old boy draws if you ask em to draw a jet
The super tiger would have been a much better purchase than the f 104
My Dad was with Grumman for over 40 years. When he was in Flight Test, the F-11 was one of the programs he was on. What the AI narrator fails to mention is the "coke bottle" shape of the fuselage. That was one of the big reasons for the performance of the aircraft. Tommy Attridge was one of the best "pure" pilots ever. He and Dad were often roommates on the road. He was a crazy man, but, God, could he fly! The family stories about the wild stuff Tommy did were legion. Tommy gave me my first ride in a jet -- an F-9F-8T. It was a 12th birthday present. (Never could do that nowadays!)
As the head of the flight test photographic team on the project, I'm sure many of the film clips in this are Dad's. Especially those of Jake Swirbul, one of Grumman's founders and a true aviation genius. Quite the trip down memory lane.
While not exactly the same experience, my wife and I wrangled a unique location for my son's 6th birthday. He was crazy about aircraft, particularly airliners. I called the City of Houston department responsible for running Bush International Airport to see if they could arrange something for Gavin's b-day. They went out of their way to include a tour of the security surveillance area where the camera feeds from around the airport are displayed. Then our group saw one of the Continental Airlines maintenance facilities, the subway train used to access a portion of the airport's underground tunnel system and one of the old control towers still in use back then (this was January 2000). But the crowning activity was having Gavin's b-day cake served to our group of 15 or so by flight attendants while sitting in a Continental Embraer jet (an ERJ 140, I think) which had just finished some exterior maintenance. In retrospect, the most unique part of this party was seeing the surveillance area and the underground tunnel. This was pre-9/11, and all these areas are now off-limits to the public and will likely remain that way. This created a type of "parent bragging" that's hard to top, but your experience definitely does it. I did manage to sit in the cockpit of the TBM-3S Avenger my father flew in the early 1960s to conduct anti-submarine missions. But we never left the ground and the ventral area where all the cool electronics and the ASW officer were located was off-limits. Loved your story, hope mine wasn't too "braggy."
Bet your Dad knew Corky Meyer from those days too.
He didn't mention the shape, but he did mention the Area Rule, the principle behind it.
Very cool for a young kid. You were lucky!
@@R760-E2 Absolutely!
The self-shootdown was quite famous at the time, with the pilot appearing on the panel game show I'VE GOT A SECRET with that story
Engineers from that era were badass
I concur with Bob Harrison. I managed 29 hours in the last phase of Advanced Jet Training at NAAS Chase Field, Beeville TX ... VT-25 IIRC. Sweeter than any other jet I've flown, from T-2Js to G600s. If the Navy had the Air Force budget and politics, there would have been thousands ordered, but it was the wrong time. I went to the F-4B/J which were fabulous workhorses, but the Tiger was a thoroughbred.
It's a shame that our clickbait emphasis makes you concentrate on the dramatic titles and incidents.
He was Superman. Faster than a speeding bullet.
I really appreciate this documentary. Growing up seeing the Blue Angels fly these jets and never seeing them set up for combat, I never understood how such a great aircraft was never deployed to the Navy for duty. Now I know. Thank you!
F11F-1Tiger was a good aircraft, which served well. The Blue Angels flew it, over crowds. They wouldn't fly a widow-maker in such a venue. The Tiger wasn't the only fighter to "shoot itself down" by it's own guns. Happened with the USAF's F-100 Super Saber too. The fault was the flight course matching the 20mm projectiles. We don't see this nowadays due to higher velocities of later 20mm guns.
F-100 was one that really was a danger to itself, killing many pilots on landing, it was a seriously unstable aircraft, even more dangerous than the Thud (F-105) which in some ways gets a undue bad reputation, even though I do love to make fun of it too. The 105s massive losses having more to do with modern anti air systems like the SA2 being extraordinarily dangerous, more than the thud being a bad plane, even if it is remembered today as the only aircraft put out of service because of such high losses.
that and closed-ended ammo systems
Good stuff. I didn't know anything about this jet, thinking it was the original Phantom, McDonnell FH-1. And I only know of that jet because an all time fav of mine is the McDonnel F-4... the wingtips, tail geometry, and those fat smoky engines, the J-79 09:19 I understand a gun pod was added temporarily, and a lot of other modifications had to take place to get it to be effective in Viet Nam. But the plane and the basic design has hung around forever. And it was still in use not so long ago as the wild weasels? I just have a soft spot for the old girl.
I'd love to hear any of your opinions on this plane.
@@scottgregory6129 F-4 was a awesome aircraft, and severed right through the 1990s as a wild weasel. Of course by that time the F-16 replaced it as a multirole fighter and the F-15 as air superiority, and the F-18 as a carrier based multirole, but still the F-4 had a good run. I totally agree with you about its looks. Some say the F-4 was ugly, but I couldn't disagree more, I think it's one of the coolest looking aircraft of the cold war with it's down swept tail and upswept wings, mean and aggressive looking. I have a model of one facing off against a model of a Mig-21 on a bookshelf.
In all fairness to that aircraft labeled "the Widowmaker".....It wouldn't have that nickname if the Germans hadn't tried to train their boys to use it in an air to ground role.
I saw the Blue Angels in 1967 at NAS Dallas Hensley Field flying the F11F Tiger.
Great timing on this one, just saw the 2 Tigers preserved at the Valiant Air Command museum in Titusville, FL. As well as an F-105 and F-100, plus many other 1st generation fighter jets. Great museum.
Such a pretty bird! You can see the Tomcats DNA in her!
looks more like a Thunderchief than a tomcat
You can see a beautiful F-11 in the Blue Angels color scheme at the Cradle of Aviation Museum in Garden City, NY on Long Island. Grumman's factory where the Tiger was built is a few miles away from the museum.
They were a great looking aircraft. After decades of interest in navy aviation I'm kind of bemused that I'd never really been aware of the F-11 until quite recently.
Iv'e heard of the phrase shooting your self in the foot but this takes it to a new level lol
It was supposed to match the MiG 15, but the MiG 17 was introduced in 1952 and the MiG 19 in 1955.
I agree. The MiG 15 was obsolescent by the time the Tiger was designed.
That's USS Forrestal, not USS Forester.
Made by Subaru!
AKA THE U.S.S. FOREST FIRE! 😂😂😂
Love this one. Also, the music was weirdly apropos. Thanks!
The F11F-1 Tiger was the only Grumman aircraft that could be described as svelte. The Cougar was sleek and beautiful, but next to its successor, it looked positively chunky.
The Tigercat was IMO rather sexy.
Not mentioned was the use of the F11 in Navy Training Command in the 60's to introduce flight students to high performance fighters before joining the fleet.
the flip at 06:44 is wild
The instant he mentioned the damage to the aircraft I assumed it was its own ammo. When the velocities of the craft and its ammo get close to each other and other factors too, things can get quite scary.
Another great Grumman product.🙂🙂
One of the Navy's most beautiful aircraft
👌Great stuff.
I was a kid back in the 60s when my dad was a Navy Commander seals in South somewhere Sunnyvale California I remember the Tigers flying with blue angels we were on the rooftop of a building directly across from the freeway from Moffett Field
Well, the navy needed to create parity after the air force got the F-104 that posed more of a danger to its crew than to the enemy.
Flew the F100 and its directional stability thing.
Yeah that's going to save a lot of space just a little the tip of the wing folding just the tip
Thoroughbreds are known to throw even experienced riders. That’s the nature of anything created for pure performance.
At 12:39 the narrator mistakenly refers to the ship as the USS Forester, which is totally wrong as the CVA 60 is actually the USS Saratoga. My home for two fun filled Med cruises with VF103 (66 & 67).
Ah yes, I remember...the Blue Angels used to fly over our home in this jet near NAS Alameda in 1962 practicing for the air show on the base. Where does the time go?
Hard to believe the Blue Angels replaced this with the F-4. The F-4 may have been an excellent plane but it wasn’t as well suited for acrobatics.
They showcase what the fleet is using
@@Patrick-xd8jv and replaced it with the more nimble A-4 Skyhawk.
I totally disagree! I flew the F4E. The bird was great at aerobatics if you knew how to fly it and understood how to use its characteristics to your advantage. Talk to old school stick and rudder pilots who actually know how to fly. Not just play military grade video games.
Saw that fly at the Toronto CNE. Beasts. Way too big and didn't like watching them.
The Tiger looked like a “show plane.” Svelte, sleek and emblematic of the times. The F4 Phantom was emblematic of its time too, muscular, loud and very very fast.
You first called the carrier ForeSTAR. LOL
Coincidentally I read an article last night about this aircraft in a 2015 issue of Naval History magazine.
I love this music! Is this offered in a single? If you were to somehow get air time for these awesome tunes, your UA-cam enterprise could make trillions.
Haha I came here to complain how annoying it was lol
Blue Angels flew them extremely well. If it looks right, it is right - the F-11 was exemplary. Area ruled "coke bottle" fuselage was a lesson the F-102 had to re-learn. Europe with so many borders close to each other would have been a great operating environment.
Now I think I know which jet they were illustrating the Sailor Jack books with.
This a/c has a strong resemblence to the Douglas D558 "Skyrocket." Just sayin'
THE LARGEST PROBLEM WAS THE GUN PLACEMENT .... FAR TOO CLOSE TO THE INTAKES .
Just like every movie F-5 and F-35 has guns firing FROM the intakes lol.
ah, check the kill ratio between the mig 15 and the F86. Not enough close.
MiG-23: "Yeah, that sucks doesn't it?"
Um. The Mig-15's max speed was Mach 0.87, saying that it could fly "as fast as the speed of sound" is misleading. Even the Mig-17 and the Mig-17pf ("pf" had an afterburner) couldn't hit the sound barrier. I do have to say that it has always baffled me completely why the US stayed with straight wing configurations for so long, even the Bell X-1 had straight wings. What the hell were they thinking back then? "Swept wings are fer Commies!" or something like that??
The F-104 also had straight wings( even if tapered). F-16 wings aren't what I'd call swept either. Aerodynamics change as knowledge is gained. For fun check out X-29.
I think you meant Forrestal.
I'm very well read up on fighter aircraft and I've never heard of the F-11
THE BLUE ANGLES FLEW IT FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS AT MANY AIRSHOWS SO I GUESS YOU IS LYING..... YOU ARE 'NOT' WELL READ UP 😊
Looks like you'er not as read up up as you thought. The last use of the F-11 was as an advanced trainer in VT-23 and VT-26 in the '60s. It was the first jet a student Naval Aviator flew that didn't have a 2 seat version.
Well if you don't know now you know, n166a.
F-14 TOMCAT...NOW THAT WAS A TRUE BAD BOY...!
What really made the Tomcat such a great choice for US carriers was it's insane optical and radar capabilities. Combined with it's Phoenix missile system, the Soviet bloc had nothing close.
The de Havilland Vampire DH-100 often flew into it's own ammunition.
Fun Fact: Navy test pilot a young Alan Shepard killed the F-11. Obviously he had more knowledge but have to admit it was a beautiful bird. And YES, even aviation design icon Kelly Johnson said you can tell because it just "looks" right.
Great plane once the J79 was fitted. It would've served the NATO forces better that the F-104 Starfighter. The F-11 was more versatile; no F-104 flew from an aircraft carrier. Too bad the 'alleged' Lockheed sales scandal potentially tanked the Grumman sales.
Alleged? Didn't know anyone was disputing Lockheed's bribery .
@@paulqueripel3493 Yup - I put alleged in quotes because that was stated by the video's narrator near the beginning of the video. You're 100% right about the bribery.
Should have sold it as a supersonic a-4
Four accurate bursts does that mean he hit the sea?
Oooh! an inflated Folland Gnat/ Midge……….😅
...which flew about a year later.
That guy at 10:13 is in every one of these videos!
That's Jake Swirbul "The Bullfrog". Co-Founder of Grumman and a true genius. He was also a wonderful man. He and Leroy Grumman never had private offices. They sat at a "Partners Desk". (Little side note.)
@@TimDocHarper Thanks for the info!
Was fine as it was, drop the music.
I believe they still use these for red team/blue team training on red teams.... Or maybe it's a new variant also called Tiger. Edit: nope, it's the F-5 Tiger I'm thinking of - they look very similar.
F5 Tigershark I think.
I don't see how you could confuse the 2. Just hold 3 views of the 2 next to each other, and you'll see how different the 2 are.
@@winternow2242agreed, harder to find similarities than differences.
FYI: The MiG-15 did not reach the speed of sound. It's top speed was Mach 0.9
The tiger is my birthday twin!
I didn’t know this one. It looks like they based the “Hot Shots” movie Phallus planes from this design.
Those were real planes, the Folland Gnat jet trainer.
Charlie Sheen was a Top Gun instructor from 85-87 and a great F14 pilot. His brother Emilio was his RIO.
no DEI in that era...just brilliant engineers
I always thought it was one of the prettiest jets.
The soviets copied the German TA183.
What about the F86?
What about the F-86?
2950 NICE
And most important, they were the planes used in Hot Shots!
No they were not. Those planes were british jet trainers gnats
Didn't Dark Skies already cover this plane in a video from 2 years ago?
Can you please either turn the background music down or off completely.
imagine the super tiger vs migs in the skies over nam!
It had a lower thrust to weight ratio than the MiG-21 and the MiG-19, and was slower than either of them.
@@winternow2242 right, still couldve been pain in the ass for mig 17 they key is keep it above 450
@@TacticalMania-xe1xh that was true for all tactical aircraft at the time.
@@winternow2242 who had hydraulic boosted control surfaces had the upper hand at high speed turn burn. reading the geometry and anticipating the other guy moves always came ahead though
It looked good, but it wasn't.
Seen the crash at the CNE Airshow in Toronto Canada. Sort of.
I was just a young aeroplane nuts kid and watched the crossover of the two planes, and as fate would have it I watched the one that went right/ not the one that went left, and so did not SEE the crash. The black smoke rising from the crash, yes but was too small with all the men standing up. Sad day for the Blue Angels.
I am glad I didn't. Pensacola has a couple, and dam they look deadly efficient.
Just goes to show.
MiG 15 could not reach Mach one
Why didn't you tell us what the MiG-15's NATO designation was?
The Grumman F-11 tiger was a flawed aircraft
Here for the moaning fans that are always here moaning about something.😂😂
The cockpit was placed in front of the nose. No it wasn't.
Wrong pilot. That flight was flown by Corki Meyer. My Father ran Grummans Flight Test. This stuff was dinner table conversation at our house.
Who was your Dad? If your family traveled with the aircraft, as we did, we probably ran into each other at Pax River or Stuart, Fl. (or Bethpage or Calverton, LOL!) Oh, and Dad always said it was Tommy -- but hell, over 60 years, who knows!
@@TimDocHarper Hi Tim, My father was Walt Foster. He ran Grumman's Flight Test Department from 1941-1964. We lived in NY. He had offices and facilities (Foster's Hanger, for one) in Bethpage and Peconic. Corki Meyer was my God Father. I know Dad traveled to PAX River and even Carriers. I know he was on board the Wasp CV7, as a Grumman Engineer doing flight testing. I was a kid. Eventually we moved to Cocoa Beach. Dad was George Skurla’s peer on Apollo. He retired in 1978, after 39 years with Grumman.
@@wmffmw1854 Cool. Didn't know your Dad but I'm sure mine did. He went with Grumman a few years after the war. He had tried to re-start his athletic career but had been shot up pretty badly at Normandy, so that didn't work out. Not sure just when but late '40s I'd guess, few years after I was born. We lived (or at least had a house on the Island) in NY as well, but we eventually had a place near Pax River and built a house in Florida. Dad transitioned to the Aerospace side of the company also. Was very involved in the LEM. In the early '60s Grumman built him a lab in Stuart because he wanted to leave NY permanently. They were great about stuff like that. I remember as a teen, playing golf with Dad and Clint Towl (who had taken over the company by then) and Mr. Towl telling me how Dad kept showing up for meetings in a lab coat, golf slacks and mismatched socks. Someone said something about executive dress once and Dad showed up at the next meeting in cut-off bluejeans and a t-shirt. They allowed the lab coat would be fine.
Grumman was a company with so many larger than life characters! Dad retired in around '82. It really was a family.
👍👍👍❤❤❤✈✈✈
its amazing how military technology were presidential way earlier than IT nowadays
If your not first your last 😂
Complimentary algorithm enhancement comment!😊
you can send this to ukraine
For their museum?
For their museum?
Of all the awful music on these vids, I think this is the worst
America's pilots should not be chemming Americans...
How can anyone listen to this narrator without getting irritated ? The 153 people who left a comment are definetely courageous adventurers, I stopped at 11 seconds, "oh no it's Dev... uhm Dark Skies" that the UA-cam logarythm automatically led me to. Whenever he's around, my ears scream "Cover" !!!!
Discussion of the Crusader opens with footage of the A-7 Corsair II....do you really think we're not paying attention? For the serious history buffs out there it may be necessary to unsubscribe until this practice comes to a halt.
What aircraft did you fly, Captain Smug?
This permanent fast speech drivel really sucks!
Lose the annoying fucking music!
Dude, that's crazy. It's awesome, I keep watching the video over and over just to listen to that great jam😂🤣😂🤣😂🤡🤡
MUSIC SUCKS
Stop calling people by their last names. Call them by their first names.
I would like to see you 'Dark Skies' folks spend a little more time & effort editing your "story clips"...
I've watched other peices you've done & they are a mess, especially when it comes to ACCURATE citing
of events.....I think you are in it for the $$ and not true Archivests.
Narration is quite painful. Z get a better voice with better diction. This is hard on the ears. A pity.
Another who uses imperial measurements only.👎
Dark skys, worst UA-cam channel ever.
In 1956 tell about free world to segregated afro-americans, buddy, or to half million Japanese in concentrated camps in USA ;)
The Japanese were not placed in concentration camps!! My brother-in-law was born in one of the camps. Not the Ritz for sure but not even close to a concentration camp. Read the experiences of Japanese in US POW camps. Their biggest complaint was US rice. You will notice that all minorities in the US now have hiring preferences in most government entities.
@@bobharrison7693 First of all, that camp is anyway limitation of freedom in segregated location by nationality even if you are American. Second, what about black lives in 1956? Third, what about preference to the normal white heterosexual man? It's limitation of my human rights for equal competition again. So don't tell me about free world. Neither in 1956 nor today. And anyway my notice is a hint to Dark Skies to remove propaganda shit from his brilliant technical and historical stories.
Get context.
Sure was a beautiful plane...makes me wonder if any are still flying today?