The SOLUTION for AUTOGAIN?? || Noiseworks GainAim
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- Опубліковано 30 лип 2024
- Check GainAim here: noiseworksaudio.com/products/...
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INDEX:
00:00 - Intro
01:02 - What is a rider?
01:47 - Different modes
02:20 - Autogain?
02:57 - Boring...
03:17 - First look
03:51 - Disclosure
04:26 - Testing
05:42 - Why is this a plugin?
07:27 - Squash and Fast
08:53 - Can it autogain?
10:05 - Conclusion
10:48 - Support me! - Навчання та стиль
Check the new clips channel --> youtube.com/@whiteseaclips
@whiteseastudio - What do you think for live streaming DJ sets, always looking for tools to push full dynamics as loud as possible and dip a little when playing 2 tracks at once?
For being useful as a gain compensation box this thing should have a side chain.if you send pre your waves plugins into the sc you could have automatic gain compensation on all of your plugins.
Great point about this needing to be integrated into DAWs. Also, it's crazy to me that every plugin doesn't automatically come with auto-gain. We have the technology. The benefits are obvious.
Exactly! He had an epiphany and it really grabbed my attention. We already spend enough time programming automation and this could help simplify all kinds of mix elements and allow you to focus on other tasks
The thing is that a lot of plugins rely on gain increase to trick people into thinking they are doing a good job while they're totally useless.
For those, implementing auto-gain is shooting their own foot
@@yeezythabest Well put, my friend. I've heard that waves plugins will add 1db to the signal after taking it out of bypass in sneaky ways to make that subtle affect to make your mind play tricks on you... I see pro's often say... "it sounds good" playing dumb as if they don't care that they are being fooled just like everyone else
You can do it in FL
@@PiddeBas thats cool. looks a bit clunky though and this plugin has several "algorithims" to allow for different reactions
I bought this plugin after trial because it is basically a volume leveller serves as a compressor+expander but without actually altering the transient of the signal! Very natural volume levelling. I use it before compressor so the compressor doesnt need to work as heavily as before, also i can use compressor more for transient shaping/tonal colouring. Compressor and limiter works better if the signal’s volume is already quite stable before hitting it
Nice way to use it indeed, a cool trick to share with us, thanks :)))
I work with rap vocals (not the autotune singing kind) and every voice is different and dynamic. Latest project has more than 8 people on it, and it’s been a pain to level them all out. This might save me tons of work in such instances, and also not having to let the compressor do so much work is is big plus. I’m not an engineer, but this is basically auto gain staging when you put everything on the same loudness right? Or is that peak focused instead of average loudness focused?
@@bagoftrix i guess the plugin 's algorithm calculates the signal's volume within certain length of time, rather than reacts to every transient/peak. I would use the plugin of a general levelling , and use the compressor to catch those peak/transient
@@benbenzon I used it and I think it’s a buy for me. It’s so convenient and very handy visually
how fast does it respond though? doesn't it add huge transients if it takes a few ms to respond?
You can set up something like automatic riding in reaper but it just takes a few steps. Kenny made a video on it some years back. Essentially you can a meter on a track and then print an envelope based on the measurement. You can choose whatever you want, e.g. a loudness meter measuring momentary LUFS. You'll get an envelope that follows the waveform. Then you just need to invert the envelope. Plugin looks nice and more convenient but just a tip if you want something free on Reaper.
the noise floor threshold would also be good (theoretically) for not amplifying breaths but still leveling
One more innovation toward the future of audio. I think I need this thing. And as to boring? This is the mundane stuff that is at the heart of good mixing and recording. Levels. EQ. Gain staging. Mic placement. The building blocks of good sound.
Mennnnn !!! Was waiting for this thing to make my synth sit at the best place in the mix without butchering equ's and really nice for vocals too ;-) Thanks !
Brilliant idea dude!...rider/ intelligent faders with top and bottom treshold settings.
I am producing mostly electronic musik but - i do not often use my faders. After 20 yrs. i let my Faders as they are. I level with abletons Utiliy if nessesary. And so i do have always the option free to make everything more quiet or louder. The next thing is i do make Subgroups. So i can use ontop of the Group effects like compression. Or some Amping or use the "External Route" for routing it to my Mixer and go analog. there i can LEVEL everything a bit more analog - so often all i do is drive the gain a bit harder and Mix Mono AMP to the Signal to fatten it up. THATS ALL. It makes such a huge difference. BUT i found a way that comes pretty close using spl Twin Tube and Utility MONO mode on Aux Bus. For self made Upward Compression. And i have to say - THOSE Plugins blew my mind: SPL Vitalizer mk2-T, Maag EQ4, BX_2098 eq, BX Console 4000 G, BX Master Desk, Waves Puigtech, Using these the right way makes a Mix to a whole new level. I would love to have the vitalizer the maag eq4 and the Creme as harware.. but i have not the money. I truly believe - that there is a difference in use between "ROCK" or Instrumental Musik and Electronic Musik. In that one you can use static gain settings. In Real recordings a compressor is more a need to compensate small gain differences. To make everything more glue. That is not the case when using synth. They often come with fixed volumes and its more a "make it more thick"moment for the Gain and plugins. Often by manipulating the envelopes. In the end you want in electronic musik all in to face - becourse that is modern Sound. If you mix like rock pop and so on - you will sound like in the 90s. Oldscool. So it is style and genre that diktate what you NEED to use. But i prefer using static settings with small automations. On off of the LFO Tool or on off of an compressor. Or side chain. I always pick the problem - fix it. And often it doesnt need to be inactive after work. Becourse nothing happens. So there is a bit of Musikal aspekt too. There is a mixing Technique using automations for riding a Gain curve to create Tesion. That is often a nice thing. Just go 1-2db for more Tension and more Dynamik feel. But you can create tension to by layering without using Gain. Just use a 2nd Layer that comes in. Gain ridings are always a option. But there is a fingerprint in Mixing style to do things a specific way. Many do mix like they have been shown. I have learend it by try and error. And Gain Rides are painfull if somthing is a very complex arrangement. It blew everything up. Making it more and more. A mix can win but often it is - more Komplex means more to look for. And Failures can come! Sometimes things like drops can make hours of searching. Or Pops Bleps Clicks that come from automations that are just not done right. A mix has to work like it is - level it keep it and work around it with it. But dont make Stupid nonsense ridings. If you need that or want it use UTILITY and not the Faders. That lesson was learned hardway and it works.
I agree that it would be highly beneficial if digital audio workstations (DAWs) could incorporate an internal feature that can selectively scan a track for leveling changes and automatically fix them.
What do you think using it to re-render tracks "autogained" to comparable levels and not use trim all the times? There is a program for dj called platinum notes but i think it not work really good, i want to do the same for free in ableton
It does seems nice but how is it different than Melda Autogain ? this one also have some target level and some range of action, with adjustable speed. Maybe a bit less fancy UI but seems pretty on the gain part.
Should I input the bass sound into the mixer, defined as VuMeter -3db + so that the kick together is 0 db? I still can't decide...
I saw a video where they just hang TR5 Clipper +6db on the master and work without VU Meter with sounds
This is one of those things that I’ve always wondered why it didn’t exist… I remember looking up autogain plugins and thinking “Not only does nobody make this, but nobody is even talking about it”. But in sound design sessions, some of the smaller more creative developers don’t have autogain and I get that, but there’s no excuse for the big guys. Completely agree with that functionality being integrated into the daw, imagine having an autogain button on your console 😳
Well we've had Waves Vocal Rider and Bass Rider for over a decade.
I can confirm that this plugin is fantastic. Easy to use, transparent, fast, convenient and flexible. I much prefer it to the Waves RIDER plugins, which I have never really been able to tweak to my liking, at least for BUSS implementation
This could be very practical for TV work, where we composers often receive roughly-mixed dialogue. This would help greatly to smoooooth things out and get your DIAL track to (roughly) where it should be
There are quite a lot of podcasts and YT vids that could benefit from some automatic volume riding too.
I am still intending to Programm a plugin for just adding auto gain to a chain... just need to learn how to do it propperly. Cause like... Maybe have a mode for the normal kinda level as it is displayed in a daw and then maybe have one setting where you can put in either the normal hearing curve of the human or one that you did with a test... maybe from a doctor or yourself... don´t know yet... maybe I can include it into the programm. So you can have auto gain matching the way you hear... don´t know if that would make sense to do though...
If you end up using it on your mic levels in future videos, I would love to see a follow up of what you think after having used it a while.
I guess it works as follows: it basically calculates the short term or momentary loudness value and adjusts it to the desired value by applying gain while excluding the signal below the noise floor threshold from the calculation but instead keeping the level constant for these parts. If it works like that the concept behind this is actually pretty simple.
This is EXACTLY what I need for Live Streaming
I think Sound Radix's POWAIR has this same level rider baked into a section of their compressor. It's not new, but it's worth looking into as an alternative. Very recommended!
What do you think is better? This one or MAutoVolume? I can't find a proper comparison anywhere.
Will try this to level out theatre or discussion rounds where actors/speakers have very different speech volume.
Looks like a cool alternative to MAutoVolume and Outlaw.
Hello I'm so agree with you on audio level match. An extension for my browser would be cool too so we wouldn't be fooled by audio demo Dry/Wet by Plugin Manufacturers (Wet version is usually louder) :) Thanks your channel and Rant are very useful to me.
Because Max For Live is built into some kind of Ableton API thing you can program a plugin that does this quite well.
I can see this as a quick solution for Podcasts or Overdubs. But yes, this should be standard in every DAW.
The hornet autogain plugins can write automation. Can't remember off the top of my head which one was the equivalent of this but I think all the ones I have were
Waves had a few Rider plugins which were really useful. Problem with Waves though, I didn't need 10 compressors or 15 EQ units, so this fills that niche really well.
write automation in to the daw: for plugin it possible to do it, i think there is waves rider that can write automation in to the daw that you can later change manually, so developer of plugin if you read comments try do it somehow
but yeah as option in reaper i.e. it will be cool
why it's not part of the DAW? because in many use cases you want this pre-FX but also simultaneously post-FX (which is fader default),
there is no DAW with dual faders so far....
I wonder how this compares to waves vocal or bass riders?
Cool Plugin, def. need a replacement for Waves Rider. Regarding reading the audio data in advance: all DAWs and plugins do that with the buffer size. FFT never works on a single chunk of data and is always processed over a buffered period. And In for example Samplitude there are many tweakable settings for track- and object buffers which add up in a pre playback delay. The DAW then calculates effects etc. in advance. This works really well and doesn't compromise real-time editing.
Hornet plugins have a few gain riders/auto gain plugins that do similar and very affordable.
@@phadrus true
I think this is one of the most exciting things 😮
is it similar to Vocal Rider by Waves or am I wrong?
In reaper you can write mesurement graphs as volume automation, eighter short term, momentary or integrated lufs or rms, but all of those react after the fact. Eg. if you have a podcast, and have a break for 3 seconds, it's going to mess everything up. So stupid to that we still use compressors like they're analog, reacting instead of calculating based on the result. Hell, there are hardly any compressors with a lookahead. Very happy that this get's attention in a good video on a good channel.
reacomp lookahead is my savior for transient heavy stuff like guitars
@@slurpbeats I prefer fircomp, it's free too. Reacomps precomp feature is acting out on me.
@@CaeSharp thanks for the recommendation! didn't know that one yet
it takes me a bit to get the fitting lookahead time in reacomp but it usually works out fine
Before watching the video, it's bascially a waves vocal rider?
Hm. I';ve just tested it on a podcast recording. I've set the leveler on the master for -16. And the rendered file has -13.5 LUFS. Hmmm.
Doesn’t Sonible smart comp 2 has this built in?!
A direct comparison to other rider plugins like PoWair and the ones from Waves would be awesome. I already own some and would like to know if Gainaim would add new value to the lineup.
Do you think it's better than vocal rider by waves ? Which has automation writing option, by the way...
Yes, it's not bad either. Sometimes the bassrider works better on some vocals for some strange reason. Try it
@Alex HAIKINE What plugin tool or instrument plugin or hardware
Over the last 10 years or so I've just printed what Vocal Rider does and never needed to allow it to write it to MIDI for editing. Maybe just me.
@@thekeysman6760 because once the automation is written you can go back and fine tune it manually. If you don't then you are bound what the algorithm is doing.
@@GingerDrums Which is why I set the thresholds properly in the first place, and print it! How dynamically fluctuating are vox/bass/guitar takes to warrant spending even more time messing about and fine tuning what was obviously too dynamic of a take in the first place? You need a more contained level of dynamics in the first place. They are tools to help an imperfect take, or to make one perfect. End of. Get it right first, and don't be misusing these tools in the wrong way. You really shouldn't need them at all.
Oh....why doesn't my Cubase 12 Pro have auto write automation from a rider??!! I mean its not exactly a cheap DAW. What a really good point Wytse! Surely though I can just set my automation track to W and record this plugin riding in real time? Surely? Am I missing something - then bypass it once written? Yeah? No? 🧡
The way you describe a rider at 1:31 ish
Isn’t that just an RMS style compressor? Where it still can react “quickly” but doesn’t catch peaks and spikes in signal
That’s how I understand it
Edit: nevermind you sorta addressed my question in the video
How does this compare to waves playlist rider
To me it seems just a limiter/expander/gate with 3 or 4 preset combinations of attack and release. Nice to have it in one package, but nothing you can't already do with stock plugins.
Talking about stone age of audio and daw... there is still handfull of them wich dont have pre/post fader fx options wich is not really a huge deal breaker but at the times it really pisses me off... :s
Tell us which song / artist this is please :)
Oh yeah we definitely got some Bon Iver fans here - great track really love that vibe.
I was waiting for this plug-in, for side chain
waves have 2 of these. one for bass stuff and one for vocals... but tbh you could use them for anything and I have. does exactly the same thing as this. i do not like Waves marketing but I actually think these 2 are just as good if not better than these as they both focus on specific ranges.
I like it, but as there are many gain rider plugs to choose from whether paid-for or free, I dunno. I use Rough Rider 3 and the one by TBPro Audio (I forget its name). 🙂
Rough rider 3 is not a gain rider at all, It's a normal compressor. I can understand why it would get confused but it's a totally different thing conceptually and in practice.
we need somethiing like this on drums, goooood it would be great
Isn't Hornet's "TheNormalizer" an autogain plugin?
i think, hornets CLMS is rather intended as auto gain plugin.
Yes, they have a few other auto gain plugins too-and dirt cheap. There are a few other auto gain plugins out there too.
Yes! I have it.
The follow up is hornets AutoGain Pro MK2
The JS Plugin Sphinx 2 from Tukan has a built in Rider
I can’t believe gainaim doesn’t have automatic gain compensation for it’s gain compensation 😂
Love the ah moment!! I agree!! This should have been a PART of every DAW!! " YOU, my lord should creath a DAW"
You should see the new one they came out with recently
You might like HorNet's Autogain Pro.
FINALLY! lol. I see you took my and probably many others advice and found a good gain matching plugin :P
We need Post-fader inserts in our DAWs
Kinda useless without a sidechain option isn't it? I mean volume is entirely perceived in context because of masking, and masking can't be judged on LUFS because it's about neighbouring frequencies.
Ah. I'm not sure GainMatch from LetiMix has that noise floor functionality. good to know
Nice idea, let the DAW write the rider moves as automation, which you then later adjust!
Reaper have it
Does Reaper has it? Where?
All MIDI devices can be automated manually, and some will write the automation info for you. Why is this so special? We have had Vocal Rider and Bass Rider for 10+ years.
Autogainer? You sold this for me with that!
it seems like Kenny Gioia already thought about this and found the solution in Reaper:
ua-cam.com/video/tjnrGU83PB4/v-deo.html
Great ! Thanks!
It DOES NOT write an automation??
I like Letimix Gainmatch more for this as it lets you A/B moves more easily.
Ableton Live users, you're welcome ;) Re: Autogain devices
1. Volume Buddy by Cats & Beats: ua-cam.com/video/etEbK1vSfcI/v-deo.html
2. Volume Compensator by LAEX: ua-cam.com/video/E504CD4bw3o/v-deo.html
Quick correction, Volume Buddy is by Noir Labs.
Right! Started to sound as a more Interesting topic 😁
For Reaper, as always, we can count on Kenny for some ways to manage situations like this, not automatic with Vol envelop, but helps...
ua-cam.com/video/tjnrGU83PB4/v-deo.html
Or Linking FX parameters ua-cam.com/video/3ZaKL8ZdzXc/v-deo.html
Thanks for your "Honest reviews" videos!
that was my reaction as well!
so this is basically like a really good mastering compressor
Very interested to demo this as a definitive auto-gain riding plugin is the holy grail of blissful quality of life mixing tools IMO… that being said, my biggest concern here is gonna be the CPU load of each instance because if this maxes out my CPU with multiple instances then it just isn’t worth it…
Im the developer, its actually really CPU friendly :) but dont take my word for it, the demo is free
i doubt this uses any cpu at all
@@moritzsur997 Nice work! The idea that AG should be in the DAW itself was also great. Maybe sell this to Reaper?
@@moritzsur997 about to buy it today
UPDATE: Just demo’d it and got to say it’s a really nifty little plug-in! Yes, CPU load is basically zero, works particularly well with instrument stems - actually levelled my test mix better than I had to be honest lol! Anyway, well done 👍🏼
Comment for da algorithm
Streak count: 126
We need more GAIN in life.
Yes: Reaper should have a rider feature!
00:1:03 A rider is simply a guy on a vehicle rides and compressing his seat with his bud!
But except the naming plug-in seems to be interesting
You can do this in Reaper. :)
8:36 or you can use lo-fi pro tools plugin 😜
I wasn't looking at the screen and thought who the hell names a plugin as "Gay Name" when I first heard it. :D
😂😂😂😂
Hornet AutoGain can write automation and it's ridiculously cheap.
Riders in DAW? Holy. Thats actually genius. Ableton, do it!!
Ableton will not do shit. They are so behind. Ableton will introduce ARA2 in 20 years when everyone else will be using ARA10
@@jackc8120 I'm spamming the ableton forums since years to implement ara .. fingers are still crossed
Probably a preset to do it already in Ableton. Bitwig calls fader riding 'Reference Level'. Basically chuck it at the end of the chain, say what level you want maintained and it maintains it against your set attack, decay, threshold, hp & lp parameters.
@@IAMCORNHOLIOINEEDTP good I support that, I've been doing the same, they just don't care. Too bad. I switched to cubase
@@jackc8120 fun fact : i am Steinberg certified, but i almost never use Cubase anymore. I use Ableton for producing, mixing, and mastering. i guess not everyone like the same things for there work and it's ok.
Also @Petter , there is 8yo MaxForLive racks, and more recent M4L devices to ride your track, calculating on Peak or LUFS incoming signal, if you need this kind of tools :)
outlaw from w.a production rulesssssssssssssss
Waves vocal rider has been around for years
did i read autogain? fuck yea
"why isnt this part of a daw" asking myself this for 10 years :D
The song sounds just like a bombay bicycle club song
Wave rider is a fantastic rider but Pro Tools only, but it beats everything I have tried.
most used atmosphere sounds recorded with mics
reaper is the best
😶🌫
There should be a general boycott of plugins without autogain. It is the single biggest factor in learning to make good mixes.
Edit: just so it's clear... Im joking with the boycott...
Agree
...waves left the chat. Oh, and oversampling should be the next on the list for anything non-linear.
"It is the single biggest factor in learning to make good mixes" ...Sorry, I couldn't disagree more. It is handy, no doubt, but that won't make or break your mix.
@@Mansardian I suspect the OP means learning how to gain stage from beginning to end. It really could make or break a mix if mishandled. I don’t think AGC is the magic bullet though. Gonna have to rely on your ears for many vol decisions.
@@Mansardian Thats why I said "biggest factor in LEARNING", not in mixing. learning to gainmatch (with or without autogain) is the exact thing, the holy grail that allows you to learn to hear the difference that any given processing is making. Before that its all obfuscated by level changes and you are chasing your tail. 2 db louder makes more difference than bus compression... As for mixing, you can still learn and make great mixes without gainmatching anything, but the learning curve will be 10x slower.
I could tell that you saId "Write" and not "Ride" immediately because "Ride automation" makes no sense!
Of course, I've been watching your videos for a number of years and here in the upper midwest (Wisconsin specifically) it's not all that uncommon to interact with immigrants from the Netherlands and other northern Eurpoean countries so we're more used to those accents and have less problems understanding them!
Who named this plugin? Whytse is trying so hard not to say "G*y Name." WTF
How come there's no jokes about Gay Name in the comments ?
Naming of this plugin is just amazing
I’m sure someone will get around to that, but there are 1000 ways to tell strangers that they’re wrong first.
@@tobytodelafontena what's next? FormerTrans? LesBiAmp? If Netflix make plug-ins..
@@AlexeyFayzulin I think you're driving dangerously.
Auto gain doesn't matter
Auto gain will save everyone hours of mixing
Useful but $40? Nah.
Didn’t really need to watch this just look at the face in the thumbnail
This plug-in sucks. I'd highly recommend just adjusting the output gain if you're hearing an audible increase in loudness. And yes, if it's audibly louder but states it's the same loudness (to which I doubt it'll be the same most the time anyway), just turn it down till it has the SAME perceived loudness as before to see if any changes are actually improving the source. Will this plug-in never work? Well no, I think it's better for beginners - but if already have experience in Engineering and/or mastering, this plug-in is moot and useless.
lol ! Riders VSTs are out there since like 10 years, and used by many, many ingeeners, it's just a time saver, so as you don't need to ride/automate a gain plugin every single track manually.
Stupid comment. When you don't know, don't speak, it's better for your chakras.
@@tobytodelafontena Your comment is actually worse than mine, you're not even trying to give me a valid reason as to why my comment is "stupid". I'm talking from a perspective on audible loudness, not calculable loudness. I'll explain it too you as well. If your snare is at -10 LUFs, and you throw this plug-in on to "adjust" for a saturation plug-in you intend to use, you might still get the same calculated loudness of -10 LUFs, but the catch is you just increased your perceived loudness! Want to know something cool? Perceived hearing in loudness will be heard louder, what a shock!
@@Gamervidsman2000 You just put yourself upon everybody else and speak about a plugin you didn't even try. The only thing you try is to show that you are better and know better, and I really don't care about that, even if it were true. Have a good life, dude!
@@tobytodelafontena Stop assuming things, it's a "riding" plug-in. Like, Rman stated... It isn't anything new, and people have used these many times. But it's by all means not a "final step" in adjusting the levelling. All you'd be doing is slightly making your job "easier". Could probably just, you know... Reduce the gain on the channel. This plug-in doesn't work like a compressor either, so if what you're getting at is that it "averages out the level", then you're wrong. I will have a good life, thanks!
Gay name?
Test the P11 ABYSS Compressor!