I know, but unfortunately it all falls under one word: money. You can not financially produce a traditional animated film with a reasonable budget and expect it to double your profits in theaters. I thought this film is an unsung masterpiece. But even back then the budget was 1.2 Million, and the film lost 300 Thousand in theaters.
An absolute masterpiece. I have the honor of watching this as a kid and studying it when I was in art school. Nothing like this has ever been done before, and since. So detailed and precise. Rotoscoping isn't easy. A lot of hard work and it shows. I'm not even gonna mention the music, acting and vibe, that's the charm of the 80s, but animation wise, this is gold. Pure excellence!
The best part is these two(Bakshi, Frazetta)NEVER SOLD OUT TO DISNEY. God bless both of them, they are two of the most important artists of the 20th and 21st century. RIP Frank. 🙏🏻
Thank you. The longhaired layout guy with the deep voice is my spouse of 40 years, Tim Callahan. I am sorry to hear every vestige of this colorful romp is obliterated. BTW, Those 2 hipstery plaid shirted dudes are: Jim "Dinotopia" Gurney and, Tom, Painter-of-Light Kinkade, in their breakout roles. Tim taught me how Frazetta "fingerpainted". and I have utilized it in my work.
That’s so awesome! They are all so skilled. Thanks for pointing that out I’m a fan of Jim Gurney and Dinotopia especially. I work in cgi vfx and he came and spoke at our studio and he signed my Dinotopia books, it was really cool to meet him in person.
@@Maldunn So cool that you connected. It was a fun time. Tim observed Frazetta's painting style, reported that he "fingerpainted" to some degree. I started doing the same. I had scored a gig at Hanna Barbera as a background stylist and utilized that technique in some of my work. (HB was rather experimentla in those days). Good times for us.
Many japanese animated movies are still made like this i.e. studio ghibli, studio 4C, Madhouse etc. Too bad disney stopped doing this a decade ago, 3D animated movies will never have the same feel as traditional animations
I just think that with the newer options available while I'm not so great someone like me can even make a animation it seems that people don't have to search as hard on how to make stuff and I'm not talking just techniques I think it's creativity mixed with little to no material that makes a unique film Simple yet effective techniques are always amazing except when it's repeated so often Computer animation is awesome but it's done so much it's loses its charm
Disney may have done rotoscoping, but it wasn't as hugely used by them as it was by Bakshi or many of the other independent animators out there. What is weird though is that in things like Adobe Premiere you can very easily rotoscope, having all of it be digital artwork.
For its time this was a landmark process. The true artistry came in taking the rotoscopes and applying the exaggerated drawing styles to the creatures and monsters. Just wonderful !.
I love how rotoscope (invented by Fleischer Studios, the creators of Betty Boop) allows animated film to achieve a more lifelike feel. My only problem with it, is that (as with mocap in CG film) it can become easily abused.
+Misterprickly Personally, I feel that rotoscoping always produces inferior results to freehanded animation using live action footage only for reference. The whole point of animation is that it puts the rhythm of physical motion entirely within the artistic control of the animator. Rotoscoping removes it again, and the final result will only be as good as the cinematographer who filmed the initial footage. It's a useful shortcut, but it comes at a dear price.
Zé Luiz Soares It's not that the animator COULDN'T do it, it's that if the animator has just been instructed to trace over the live action footage, his input into the dramatic effect of the sequence is going to be severely limited. Rather than determining the key frames necessary to convey the optimal emotion of a scene, the animator is a slave to following the rhythm of the source footage.
I didn't see this movie when it first came out but I did see it in the early 90s and was just blown away with the life like movement. It reminded me so much of He-Man when I saw it since He-man used about a dozen or so rotoscoping scenes but thinking this movie was like the epitome of this form of animation.
I don't know what I make of the rotoscoping process utilised by Bakshi on films like this and Lord of the Rings. It certainly adds a realistic feel to the characters, but I don't know why you'd want to place these strict limitations on animation. Disney's Cinderella was drawn from live-action reference but I the character's aren't so limited and carbon copies of real life like some of Bakshi's production. (Rant over and I really enjoyed this vid)
Ironically, Bakshi actually hated the process of rotoscoping. The only reason he used it for so many of his movies was because he couldn't afford experienced animators
So is the original video of the actors acting the parts gone? Or does anyone have a link to that?Tbh I got to see the liberties they took between tiger's ass and the original actresss'.
I don't know the name of the actress by heart, but if you do a google search for along with fire and ice, you will actually get some rare photo's of her acting her scenes, and I can tell you...the artists took MAJOR liberties with her proportions.
That's not true! Technology is only a tool. You still need hundrets of creative artists for making an animated or life action movie. Many animators from the 80s now work on computergenerated animation. You still need people with the know how for setting pictures to motion.
Yeah and technology isn't just for machinery either... Advances in technology allows us to discover new tools for traditional work too. So new tools, new ways for creating Art. It's a question of choice, more than anything. The process can be pretty much the same.
This was a fairly new way to animate-- it's not my favorite, because you can definitely lose a lot of the imaginative and creative processes of animation. If you're not careful it can look like tracing, and you might as well just FILM the entire thing. But Fire and Ice still manages to be a treasure.
I know it, was a rotoscope technique, that's why so amazing literally they do 2 movies, because in that times there no was motion capture or capture softwares, just sweat and tears 😊
Even though it's rotoscoped there's a certain organic energy to this process. Today everything is so perfectly rendered with computers which just sucks the life and personality right out of the animation.
The only thing I hate about Bakshi movies is the sound department. The sound in the actions sequences and the volume of the music is turned down so much for my taste.
Thanks for uploading this, I got this on dvd but theres no making of on it :( I wonder what all these people are doing today, whats an old rotoscope animator to do in this day and age, when hardly anything is animated in the u.s. anymore?
I totally knew this film was rotoscoped some parts in the beginning with that ice king dude were hand traditional but other than that the entire thing is rotoscoped. Anyone can trace over video footage doesn’t really count as animation to me. But at least it looks pretty cool.
The movie system is too bland. Should have done this tracing animation based style to help just in case if budget or other issues were in the way. Fire and Ice is awesome.
ughh, the pains. its hurting your arm more than traditional. sometimes i feel like just grab that knife, stab, cut and pull out that bracioradishitwhatever muscle, that thing in your arm. i think tracing put more strain because you limiting the movement. Salute to the arm and eye of those animator. they did well.
@@fajinu1320 no he was only a god amongst those who are easily duped; mostly dumb red-necks and art-Nazi brigaders. Fire and Ice was supposed to look like Frazetta's work, but failed to appreciate that Frazetta was not a popular artist outside the very small world of Fantasy. Also the film was rotoscoped so it wouldn't have looked like FF anyways which is quite old fashioned. Presumably Batski though the name would add kudos-it didn't and the film bombed.
It is such a shame that animated movies like this are not made these days.
it's even more shameful that there aren't too many rotoscoped films.
The Japanese still create them. America is so hidebound in its tastes. Bakshi and a few others were outliers.
Spine of Night, check it out
I know, but unfortunately it all falls under one word: money. You can not financially produce a traditional animated film with a reasonable budget and expect it to double your profits in theaters. I thought this film is an unsung masterpiece. But even back then the budget was 1.2 Million, and the film lost 300 Thousand in theaters.
That was literally handmade, cant see that today nobody want to work so much, at the point that use the ia for almost everything
An absolute masterpiece. I have the honor of watching this as a kid and studying it when I was in art school. Nothing like this has ever been done before, and since. So detailed and precise. Rotoscoping isn't easy. A lot of hard work and it shows. I'm not even gonna mention the music, acting and vibe, that's the charm of the 80s, but animation wise, this is gold. Pure excellence!
The best part is these two(Bakshi, Frazetta)NEVER SOLD OUT TO DISNEY. God bless both of them, they are two of the most important artists of the 20th and 21st century. RIP Frank. 🙏🏻
Thank you. The longhaired layout guy with the deep voice is my spouse of 40 years, Tim Callahan. I am sorry to hear every vestige of this colorful romp is obliterated. BTW, Those 2 hipstery plaid shirted dudes are: Jim "Dinotopia" Gurney and, Tom, Painter-of-Light Kinkade, in their breakout roles. Tim taught me how Frazetta "fingerpainted". and I have utilized it in my work.
That’s so awesome! They are all so skilled. Thanks for pointing that out I’m a fan of Jim Gurney and Dinotopia especially. I work in cgi vfx and he came and spoke at our studio and he signed my Dinotopia books, it was really cool to meet him in person.
@@Maldunn So cool that you connected. It was a fun time. Tim observed Frazetta's painting style, reported that he "fingerpainted" to some degree. I started doing the same. I had scored a gig at Hanna Barbera as a background stylist and utilized that technique in some of my work. (HB was rather experimentla in those days). Good times for us.
Many japanese animated movies are still made like this i.e. studio ghibli, studio 4C, Madhouse etc.
Too bad disney stopped doing this a decade ago, 3D animated movies will never have the same feel as traditional animations
5tonyvvvv Not like Betty Boop or the Disney princess line up.
Bakshi cops a feel on the actress whilst being carried on the actor’s shoulder.
Theres a beauty thats lost with the new cgi animation style.. i love the watercolor backgrounds and rotoscoping techniques
I just think that with the newer options available while I'm not so great someone like me can even make a animation it seems that people don't have to search as hard on how to make stuff and I'm not talking just techniques
I think it's creativity mixed with little to no material that makes a unique film
Simple yet effective techniques are always amazing except when it's repeated so often
Computer animation is awesome but it's done so much it's loses its charm
Disney may have done rotoscoping, but it wasn't as hugely used by them as it was by Bakshi or many of the other independent animators out there.
What is weird though is that in things like Adobe Premiere you can very easily rotoscope, having all of it be digital artwork.
This method is like basically making two movies, lol. A real life version and an animated one. So much work!
I would´ve really loved to see the "Behind the scenes stuff" as in the live action segments before animation. Imagine watching this movie live action.
A young James Gurney and Thomas Kinkade at 6:31. An interesting start painting landscapes for these two accomplished painters.
More like incredible or incredibly interesting eh? Imagine having Frazetta hanging around while you work? Too amazing!
Bryan Coombes- REMAX The James Gurney who Illustrated & published the 4 part Issues of DINOTOPIA years later after this?
@@dylangeltzeiler946 the very same
One of my favorite animated films, Bakshi and Frazzetta’s works are amazing.
Wow, what a tedious process... Amazing!
Insane how labor intensive that process is. Now animators use motion capture and the computer can fill in between key frames.
This is pure magic!
This film is part of my childhood. It’s fucking awesome.
Just did the math. If 4 seconds of screen time= 40 hours of work then the movie took 54,000 hours of labor just for the initial drawing
Thanks for uploading this. Much kudos and again many thanks for sharing.
I love the actress of Teegra screaming 😱😂 4:41
For its time this was a landmark process. The true artistry came in taking the rotoscopes and applying the exaggerated drawing styles to the creatures and monsters. Just wonderful !.
Masters of animation
I love how rotoscope (invented by Fleischer Studios, the creators of Betty Boop) allows animated film to achieve a more lifelike feel.
My only problem with it, is that (as with mocap in CG film) it can become easily abused.
+Misterprickly Personally, I feel that rotoscoping always produces inferior results to freehanded animation using live action footage only for reference. The whole point of animation is that it puts the rhythm of physical motion entirely within the artistic control of the animator. Rotoscoping removes it again, and the final result will only be as good as the cinematographer who filmed the initial footage. It's a useful shortcut, but it comes at a dear price.
TheInflicted Oh agreed 100%
Rotoscoping is nice and all but it will never replace traditional animation.
It's pretty much the mocap of 2D.
+TheInflicted Tell me an example of an action that the animator would like to do and coundn't do it with rotoscoping.
Zé Luiz Soares It's not that the animator COULDN'T do it, it's that if the animator has just been instructed to trace over the live action footage, his input into the dramatic effect of the sequence is going to be severely limited. Rather than determining the key frames necessary to convey the optimal emotion of a scene, the animator is a slave to following the rhythm of the source footage.
TheInflicted very true!
Gurney and Kinkade 👏👏👏🎨🎨
I didn't see this movie when it first came out but I did see it in the early 90s and was just blown away with the life like movement. It reminded me so much of He-Man when I saw it since He-man used about a dozen or so rotoscoping scenes but thinking this movie was like the epitome of this form of animation.
the amount of work and creativity it took to make this amazing movie, wow!
Thomas Kinkade at 6:39! So young,
I don't know what I make of the rotoscoping process utilised by Bakshi on films like this and Lord of the Rings. It certainly adds a realistic feel to the characters, but I don't know why you'd want to place these strict limitations on animation.
Disney's Cinderella was drawn from live-action reference but I the character's aren't so limited and carbon copies of real life like some of Bakshi's production. (Rant over and I really enjoyed this vid)
matthew eyre I'm pretty certain the answer to that would be money.
Ironically, Bakshi actually hated the process of rotoscoping. The only reason he used it for so many of his movies was because he couldn't afford experienced animators
I never noticed any limited movements.
The manual "hands on" techniques were so great.
It's a tremendous loss that this is gone forever.
the paintings are gorgeous
huge thanks for uploading it, man! It's so cool and interesting!
James Gurney spotted
I was surprised to find out he worked on Fire and Ice
That's how they did it. I wish Beowulf was done in this style instead of the cgi.
We need more...2021 Dune should have been made like this.
🤩 thank you!! never seen this before! 🤩🙏
All their painstaking efforts were taking forward step to computer animations..thanx to them
thank you for posting this. As someone who is interested in animation this was a real eye opener!
Thank you very much for uploading this mind-blowing piece of PURE AWESOMENESS! Thanks!
So is the original video of the actors acting the parts gone? Or does anyone have a link to that?Tbh I got to see the liberties they took between tiger's ass and the original actresss'.
I don't know the name of the actress by heart, but if you do a google search for along with fire and ice, you will actually get some rare photo's of her acting her scenes, and I can tell you...the artists took MAJOR liberties with her proportions.
Look up Cynthia Leake.
Go to 3:16 and 4:16 of this video ive linked and your answer is revealed, bit of a let down really.
ua-cam.com/video/8aWzoRLM7r4/v-deo.html
Previously there was a concern with quality and great artists made history in the animated film!
Wow! Thank you for this gem!
thank for this as the commentary on the dvd release wasn't the greatest
Thank you very much.
Oh, so that's why most of the characters didn't have any clothes. They had to read the body movements of the stunt live action actors properly.
So many beautiful careers replaced by technology, interesting.
That's not true! Technology is only a tool. You still need hundrets of creative artists for making an animated or life action movie. Many animators from the 80s now work on computergenerated animation. You still need people with the know how for setting pictures to motion.
Yeah and technology isn't just for machinery either...
Advances in technology allows us to discover new tools for traditional work too. So new tools, new ways for creating Art. It's a question of choice, more than anything. The process can be pretty much the same.
I wish there were more of these.
I am trying to make my youtube series using same technique but with softwares.
This was a fairly new way to animate-- it's not my favorite, because you can definitely lose a lot of the imaginative and creative processes of animation. If you're not careful it can look like tracing, and you might as well just FILM the entire thing. But Fire and Ice still manages to be a treasure.
I know it, was a rotoscope technique, that's why so amazing literally they do 2 movies, because in that times there no was motion capture or capture softwares, just sweat and tears 😊
Can't believe Aeon Flux director Peter Chung worked on this!
He-Man was also drawn over photo models acting out the motions like this.
Strains the muscle in the hand and fingers. Thank goodness for computer animation now, back then it was a big deal to pull it off perfect.
Amazing
Even though it's rotoscoped there's a certain organic energy to this process. Today everything is so perfectly rendered with computers which just sucks the life and personality right out of the animation.
The only thing I hate about Bakshi movies is the sound department. The sound in the actions sequences and the volume of the music is turned down so much for my taste.
Thanks for uploading this, I got this on dvd but theres no making of on it :( I wonder what all these people are doing today, whats an old rotoscope animator to do in this day and age, when hardly anything is animated in the u.s. anymore?
AWESOME! SKILLS FUUUCK
Yep
Voices here are better than the voices of the actual movie.
I totally knew this film was rotoscoped some parts in the beginning with that ice king dude were hand traditional but other than that the entire thing is rotoscoped. Anyone can trace over video footage doesn’t really count as animation to me. But at least it looks pretty cool.
Anyone, huh? Someone should tell the animators and artists that worked on this that any guy off the street could have put out a similar product.
I am no man, but you're welcome anyway! :)
11:42 she is hot!...
Please can u do it a real movie this year i love dis ...fire and ice 2019
Is adult animation movies dead?!
The movie system is too bland. Should have done this tracing animation based style to help just in case if budget or other issues were in the way. Fire and Ice is awesome.
You should of hired Bob Ross
LOL
Made myself laugh
But he was doing his show in 83
So Bill Alexander is probaly a better choice.
ughh, the pains. its hurting your arm more than traditional. sometimes i feel like just grab that knife, stab, cut and pull out that bracioradishitwhatever muscle, that thing in your arm. i think tracing put more strain because you limiting the movement. Salute to the arm and eye of those animator. they did well.
이럴바엔 그냥 실사 영화로 촬영하는 게 수고를 덜 듯....
it was a box office flop, and having a second rate illustrator like Frazetta on board didn't help either
what are you even talking about frank frazetta was a god amongst fantasy illustrators
@@fajinu1320 no he was only a god amongst those who are easily duped; mostly dumb red-necks and art-Nazi brigaders. Fire and Ice was supposed to look like Frazetta's work, but failed to appreciate that Frazetta was not a popular artist outside the very small world of Fantasy. Also the film was rotoscoped so it wouldn't have looked like FF anyways which is quite old fashioned. Presumably Batski though the name would add kudos-it didn't and the film bombed.
@@fajinu1320 no he was not