I really love the way you translate Tolkien works. Quite unique from Nerd of the Rings UA-cam channel of whom i am a fan favorite. I really got more insight into The High King Gil-galad
Lovely, Re-doing Gil-Galad ECH after all these years!!! I find it funny in some Franshises, we were are, "Who are the parents?" But this time it's Professor Tolkien and Christopher checks the notes and Wonder...Not us Fans!!! Thanks again for redoing this ECH, Until Gothmog's ECH...Marion Baggins Out!!!
Yep, pretty much a crime. How badly they butchered his character in ROP..... 1 of the main reasons I can not even watch rop anymore! I lasted 6 episodes before I gave up
@@kristianpadley5562 Character butchering, Game of Thrones-y vibes, empty corporate pandering, cynical writing, aged Elves indicating a lack of understanding for Tolkien’s writing, Galadriel changed into a warrior princess indicating a lack of appreciation for Tolkien’s work under the selfish assumption that it’s somehow flawed… even the opening dialogue in the trailer about there being ‘light’ in the world ‘despite it being so old’ shows that the show is being written by people who have no real interest in the books, because in truth, the world at the time had probably never experienced darker days in actuality. It seems more like they’re skimming through the Silmarillion looking for pretty words, and writing around them.
Fingon as the father of Gil-Ghalad fits a lot better than Orodreth. As for the Kingship going first to Turgon is not an issue thanks to Maedhros who gave the crown to Fingolfin. As we don't know everything so it is possible that Gil-Ghalad did the same. There are other options but it is not a problem for Turgon to take the crown before Gil-Galad. If I recall correctly the Crown going to Turgon was the problem for Tolkien which could be fixed by making Orodreth the father. That creates other problems so in my opinion CH.T. made the correct choice
I think the correct choice is to leave it open, as Christopher later stated. We just don't know who his father was, and that makes him even more special in my opinion.
@@timtas1968 on the one hand I agree on the other it is about the High King descended from Finwe. It is important to know who sits on the throne and why
@@wbfwbl8434 As I undersood the whole thing, all mentioned fathers have their problems, why Gil-Galad followed Turgon. But I might be wrong, I'm not that proficient in Elven rules of throne heritage.
@@timtas1968 in my opinion there is no problem Maedhros gave the Kingship to Fingolfin creating a possibility for the Elves to make exceptions to the rules. As a historian and lawyer I don't see a problem in Gil-Ghalad taking the crown after Turgon if he gave it freely to Turgon after Turgon was slain.
In an interview with Mark Ferguson (Gil-galad) and Craig Parker (Haldir), Ferguson stated that it had been planned for his death to be depicted onscreen as in the book, but it was considered too violent.
"From one king to another." I'll admit I often overlook the last high king of elves, in favor of Elrond or kings of men. But he ended the kingship the way it was meant to b from the beginning. Just, honorable, and even with hope at the end.
Great video, thank you. He is one of my favourite characters. I like more the idea that he was son of Fingon, but his story is important, not his birth.
The literal 2 seconds of screen time we get of him in the prologue in Fellowship of the Ring is better than the entire screen time of him in Rings of Power
Elrond and Elros were not "boys" when they were "set free" after the death of Maedhros and Maglor. They were full grown half-elves, and had been full grown for decades. Elrond was explicitly involved in the War of Wrath (presumably El;ros as well). In at least one variant Maedhros and Maglor make their way to Balar after the Third Kinslaying. Elrond and Eleros would have been "free" then. And if not, by the time they were 'mature' at 24 years of age.
Giving The Peoples of Middle-earth precedence over The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, and The Children of Hurin with regard to Gil-Galad's ancestry, as many younger Tolkien fans seem to do these days, is just plain crazy. Maybe Christopher Tolkien should have left Gil-Galad's ancestry ambiguous as he later came to believe, but he didn't. There is no ambiguity about it in the published works. Ereinion Gil-Galad was the son of Fingon. Any other versions of his ancestry were just undeveloped musings by Tolkien that are impossible to reconcile with the larger story as written, which is why Christopher didn't attempt to incorporate them. It would have required far too much retrofitting with no significant benefit to the story. That's probably why he continued to stick with Orodreth as Finrod's brother as opposed to the son of Angrod and father of Gil-Galad in The Children of Hurin, which was published a decade after The Peoples of Middle-earth. Personally, I'm glad he made Gil-Galad's ancestry unambiguous. To do otherwise would have been extremely unsatisfying. And publishing a version of The Children of Hurin that wasn't in agreement with The Silmarillion and Narn I Hin Hurin from Unfinished Tales would have been even worse. The History of Middle-earth series is extremely interesting and a valuable resource concerning Tolkien's creative process, but almost none of its contents can be viewed as completed works.
His most developed ancestry is Gil-Galad, son of Finrod, actually. The one used in the first edition of the Lord of the Rings, since Gil-Galad was unambiguously Finrod's son during its writing and publication. It's the only version where we know the identity of both his parents (Finrod & Meril of Eglarest, kinswoman of Cirdan), and the one that gives him unique relationship with Celebrimbor, who in part chose not to follow his father Curufin because of the close friendship he developed with Meril and young Gil-Galad. And Christopher himself admitted to editing his father's text of "Of the Rings of Power..." chapter changing Felagund to Fingon in several places (the text he used originally said "Gil-Galad, son of Felagund, was their king", and his letter to Aldarion's father originally stated "Finellach Gil-Galad of House of Finarfin"). He was Fingon's son in one pencil note with a question mark in the Grey Annals, and belonged to the House of Finarfin for 90 % of his literary history within the Legendarium.
the noldor kings were really unlucky... every king in middle earth met a gruesome death... maybe that's why no one claimed the position after GilGalad...
Thank you very much for this very informative video. I'm a big Gil-Galad fan (my favourite elf), and plan to write some fan-fiction about him, so I'm very happy about as much information about him as possible, as long as it is in line with "The Lore" (so nothing from The Rings of Power...). As you seem very well informed about all Tolkien things, I have a few questions which you might be easily being able to answer: - We know that Gil-Galard was never married. Could he however have been engaged early in his life? Does this contradict any writing, elven rules or genereral character traits? - Is it clear whether Sauron took the "single" combat with Gil-Galad and Elendil to them, or did they take it to him? And why at the slopes of Mount Doom? "Tolkien Untangled" mentions the possibility of Sauron wanting to cause Mount Doom to erupt and therefore drive the alliance away like this, so they took the fight to him. "Lore of The Rings" however claims that Sauron took the fight to them, hoping by defeating them, their armies would dissolve. Is there any clear evidence for either theory, or is it open to interpretation? (I prefer them taking the fight to him) - I usually read that Gil-Galad was sent to Cirdan together with his mother, here you don't mention her. Is this also open? (I prefer the mother being along). Btw: I would leave the question of his fatherhood deliberately open, as this seems also what Christopher Tolkien in the end wanted.
That's a great question! Perhaps I may say that is further evidence of his different lineage, as the other High Elves were of the House of Fingolfin with '-gon' at the end of at least two of their names, while Gil-galad would rather be of the House of Finarfin.
Objection! Lego LotR confirmed his survival as captive in Mordor xD . . . Alright, jokes aside. I actually quite liked that twist, even though its definitively not canon lore by any stretch. And a very cool way to tie one of my favorite elves in the legendarium into the game xD
Gil-Galad is one of my favourite characters and RoP truly let me down with their portrayal of him. Didn''t feel like the Gil-Galad I know. I'm pretty certain he was compromised/manipulated by Sauron already in season 1, but I'm not quite sure how they would rectify this mess of a character.
It’s a common trope for the elves to always have this cold brown hued hair (ashy brown, chocolate) or cool black (jet black) or cold blonde hair (dirty blonde, platinum). Silly that I almost never see warm blonde and warm/cool red hair (hot yellow, flaxen, burgundy, orange, strawberry blonde, copper). Where are the yellow haired and red haired elves?
So, why is Glorfindel such a single miracle? He lived, he died; he died a hero, and entered the Halls of Mandos...but then he was back, in an instant, and even lasted till the War of the Rings, and beyond. Elves are immortal, and more than just "unaging". Even when their bodies die, their fea perseveres, and they can be reembodied, so why does this thing that seems intended for all Elves instead seem to happen only rarely? Why was Gil-Galad left to linger in rhe Halls, when his skills, and leadership, could have done much for so many? Obviously, part of it is so death has meaning, as it does in our world; when people die here, they never miraculously return, but then why establish that this is a thing, at all. Why send back Glorfindel? If we knew that Gil-Galad was alive again, but just compelled to reside within Valinor, where the immortals are meant to be, that would make it easier, but here, it just seems like several "important" Elves should have already returned to life, as is their immortal prerogative, instead of just waiting for Tolkien's Armageddon, which he later decided might NEVER. happen.
Well, Glorfindel was sent to ME to help, as were the five Istari, so sending more elves is not really necessary. The other reason is that the Valar are somewhat jerks :D
All Elves that die in middle earth are going to the halls of mandos and are then reborn in valinor, as it is there fate to live there, thats why all the living elves in middle earth must leave middle earth finally, because otherwise they would fate there and become spirits. That glorfindel was sent back to middle earth is a rare exception for his great deeds he had done in the first age. Gil-Galad obviously also did an great deed in defeating Sauron, but maybe the valar knew eru´s plan and that Gil-Galad had no more role to fullfil in that plan, unlike Glorfindel who was meant to be helping our heroes of the lord of the rings until finally he also has no more role to fullfil and is thus going back to valinor with gandalf and the other elves.
For sure we know that Finrod Felagund got a new body. As for the rest, besides Glorfindel, we can't be sure of that. We would have to start from the moment the elvish soul is ready to get the body recreated with the help of the Valar. Gil-Ghalad deserves the get back on his feet asap. Lets say he was good to go after a few hundred years. Lets say he is willing to go to ME, he is able to overcome his desire to be in the undying lands, would the Valar let him do it? I'm sure that among thousands of elvish souls who suffered because of Sauron many would want to go back to ME to kick his a... and go back to the Valar. Yeah the Valar are jerks esp. towards men who were always the worse children. I'm not talking about the ban for entering the undying lands. Besides Ulmo the rest seem not to like men
In the Fourth Age, Aeglos, the spear of Gil-Galad is found by a dwarf. Chained by magic, a wraith of a man from Angmar is bound to the spear as a punishment. In 1183 of the Fourth age, a quest to discover a Palantir is started that leads to adventures unknown.
I really love that you always tell us to use those heroes as examples to be the best we can!
Really needed in these darkening days.
I really love the way you translate Tolkien works. Quite unique from Nerd of the Rings UA-cam channel of whom i am a fan favorite. I really got more insight into The High King Gil-galad
I miss your old video of this with the singing intro :)
Please bring back the sung version of Gilgalad’s tale as soon as possible
I really love these looks that help draw people who only know the movies into the wider legendarium.
Lovely, Re-doing Gil-Galad ECH after all these years!!!
I find it funny in some Franshises, we were are, "Who are the parents?" But this time it's Professor Tolkien and Christopher checks the notes and Wonder...Not us Fans!!!
Thanks again for redoing this ECH, Until Gothmog's ECH...Marion Baggins Out!!!
Gil-galad update let’s go Yoystan
"Things are finally looking up for Ol' Gil!" -Gil-Galad, just before facing Sauron
Gil-Galad is an amazing character
Now this is a guy i could follow, not the Wendy's manager we got in RoP.
😂
Lol Wendy’s manager
lmao it fits i don't know why
Yep, pretty much a crime. How badly they butchered his character in ROP..... 1 of the main reasons I can not even watch rop anymore! I lasted 6 episodes before I gave up
@@kristianpadley5562 Character butchering, Game of Thrones-y vibes, empty corporate pandering, cynical writing, aged Elves indicating a lack of understanding for Tolkien’s writing, Galadriel changed into a warrior princess indicating a lack of appreciation for Tolkien’s work under the selfish assumption that it’s somehow flawed… even the opening dialogue in the trailer about there being ‘light’ in the world ‘despite it being so old’ shows that the show is being written by people who have no real interest in the books, because in truth, the world at the time had probably never experienced darker days in actuality. It seems more like they’re skimming through the Silmarillion looking for pretty words, and writing around them.
Fingon as the father of Gil-Ghalad fits a lot better than Orodreth. As for the Kingship going first to Turgon is not an issue thanks to Maedhros who gave the crown to Fingolfin. As we don't know everything so it is possible that Gil-Ghalad did the same. There are other options but it is not a problem for Turgon to take the crown before Gil-Galad. If I recall correctly the Crown going to Turgon was the problem for Tolkien which could be fixed by making Orodreth the father. That creates other problems so in my opinion CH.T. made the correct choice
I think the correct choice is to leave it open, as Christopher later stated. We just don't know who his father was, and that makes him even more special in my opinion.
@@timtas1968 on the one hand I agree on the other it is about the High King descended from Finwe. It is important to know who sits on the throne and why
@@wbfwbl8434 As I undersood the whole thing, all mentioned fathers have their problems, why Gil-Galad followed Turgon. But I might be wrong, I'm not that proficient in Elven rules of throne heritage.
@@timtas1968 in my opinion there is no problem Maedhros gave the Kingship to Fingolfin creating a possibility for the Elves to make exceptions to the rules. As a historian and lawyer I don't see a problem in Gil-Ghalad taking the crown after Turgon if he gave it freely to Turgon after Turgon was slain.
In an interview with Mark Ferguson (Gil-galad) and Craig Parker (Haldir), Ferguson stated that it had been planned for his death to be depicted onscreen as in the book, but it was considered too violent.
Yes, "Gil-Galad was destroyed", as Elrond puts it, sound rather violent....
Thank you
Back around 2005 I lived in a house where a few doors down lived two Rottweilers named Gil Gilad and Gil Gerard. Everyone knew them!
Nice 👍
"From one king to another."
I'll admit I often overlook the last high king of elves, in favor of Elrond or kings of men. But he ended the kingship the way it was meant to b from the beginning. Just, honorable, and even with hope at the end.
Nice work dude thanks
Great video, thank you. He is one of my favourite characters.
I like more the idea that he was son of Fingon, but his story is important, not his birth.
The literal 2 seconds of screen time we get of him in the prologue in Fellowship of the Ring is better than the entire screen time of him in Rings of Power
Another great video. Thanks.
How do I tag Amazon Prime lore masters on this video? =D
Elrond and Elros were not "boys" when they were "set free" after the death of Maedhros and Maglor.
They were full grown half-elves, and had been full grown for decades.
Elrond was explicitly involved in the War of Wrath (presumably El;ros as well).
In at least one variant Maedhros and Maglor make their way to Balar after the Third Kinslaying. Elrond and Eleros would have been "free" then. And if not, by the time they were 'mature' at 24 years of age.
Giving The Peoples of Middle-earth precedence over The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, and The Children of Hurin with regard to Gil-Galad's ancestry, as many younger Tolkien fans seem to do these days, is just plain crazy. Maybe Christopher Tolkien should have left Gil-Galad's ancestry ambiguous as he later came to believe, but he didn't. There is no ambiguity about it in the published works. Ereinion Gil-Galad was the son of Fingon. Any other versions of his ancestry were just undeveloped musings by Tolkien that are impossible to reconcile with the larger story as written, which is why Christopher didn't attempt to incorporate them. It would have required far too much retrofitting with no significant benefit to the story. That's probably why he continued to stick with Orodreth as Finrod's brother as opposed to the son of Angrod and father of Gil-Galad in The Children of Hurin, which was published a decade after The Peoples of Middle-earth. Personally, I'm glad he made Gil-Galad's ancestry unambiguous. To do otherwise would have been extremely unsatisfying. And publishing a version of The Children of Hurin that wasn't in agreement with The Silmarillion and Narn I Hin Hurin from Unfinished Tales would have been even worse. The History of Middle-earth series is extremely interesting and a valuable resource concerning Tolkien's creative process, but almost none of its contents can be viewed as completed works.
His most developed ancestry is Gil-Galad, son of Finrod, actually. The one used in the first edition of the Lord of the Rings, since Gil-Galad was unambiguously Finrod's son during its writing and publication. It's the only version where we know the identity of both his parents (Finrod & Meril of Eglarest, kinswoman of Cirdan), and the one that gives him unique relationship with Celebrimbor, who in part chose not to follow his father Curufin because of the close friendship he developed with Meril and young Gil-Galad. And Christopher himself admitted to editing his father's text of "Of the Rings of Power..." chapter changing Felagund to Fingon in several places (the text he used originally said "Gil-Galad, son of Felagund, was their king", and his letter to Aldarion's father originally stated "Finellach Gil-Galad of House of Finarfin"). He was Fingon's son in one pencil note with a question mark in the Grey Annals, and belonged to the House of Finarfin for 90 % of his literary history within the Legendarium.
Why did rings of power do the ship right like that. He looks like he’s in a band with Willie Nelson
Good video
I wonder what would have happened if he had not given his ring to Elrond
Elrond would have taken it anyway, after Gil-Galad was slain...
the noldor kings were really unlucky... every king in middle earth met a gruesome death... maybe that's why no one claimed the position after GilGalad...
Thank you very much for this very informative video. I'm a big Gil-Galad fan (my favourite elf), and plan to write some fan-fiction about him, so I'm very happy about as much information about him as possible, as long as it is in line with "The Lore" (so nothing from The Rings of Power...). As you seem very well informed about all Tolkien things, I have a few questions which you might be easily being able to answer:
- We know that Gil-Galard was never married. Could he however have been engaged early in his life? Does this contradict any writing, elven rules or genereral character traits?
- Is it clear whether Sauron took the "single" combat with Gil-Galad and Elendil to them, or did they take it to him? And why at the slopes of Mount Doom? "Tolkien Untangled" mentions the possibility of Sauron wanting to cause Mount Doom to erupt and therefore drive the alliance away like this, so they took the fight to him. "Lore of The Rings" however claims that Sauron took the fight to them, hoping by defeating them, their armies would dissolve. Is there any clear evidence for either theory, or is it open to interpretation? (I prefer them taking the fight to him)
- I usually read that Gil-Galad was sent to Cirdan together with his mother, here you don't mention her. Is this also open? (I prefer the mother being along).
Btw: I would leave the question of his fatherhood deliberately open, as this seems also what Christopher Tolkien in the end wanted.
This video is worth more than the insipid rendition we got in RoP
Why was Gil-galad named so differently from all the rest of the high Elven kings?
That's a great question! Perhaps I may say that is further evidence of his different lineage, as the other High Elves were of the House of Fingolfin with '-gon' at the end of at least two of their names, while Gil-galad would rather be of the House of Finarfin.
Gil-galad is an epesse, or after name.
👍👍
Sad that rings of power ruin him (in the show, not in general, he can never be ruined)
Objection! Lego LotR confirmed his survival as captive in Mordor xD
.
.
.
Alright, jokes aside. I actually quite liked that twist, even though its definitively not canon lore by any stretch. And a very cool way to tie one of my favorite elves in the legendarium into the game xD
Gil-Galad is one of my favourite characters and RoP truly let me down with their portrayal of him. Didn''t feel like the Gil-Galad I know. I'm pretty certain he was compromised/manipulated by Sauron already in season 1, but I'm not quite sure how they would rectify this mess of a character.
It’s a common trope for the elves to always have this cold brown hued hair (ashy brown, chocolate) or cool black (jet black) or cold blonde hair (dirty blonde, platinum). Silly that I almost never see warm blonde and warm/cool red hair (hot yellow, flaxen, burgundy, orange, strawberry blonde, copper). Where are the yellow haired and red haired elves?
Why did you replace the song
Ereinion*
Thanks lol, will fix that. Was typing too fast I think 😂
It's a case of whose the daddy when it comes to the Great king 😊😅
Things about Gil-Galad the Bible doesn’t tell you
erenion or eregion?
So, why is Glorfindel such a single miracle? He lived, he died; he died a hero, and entered the Halls of Mandos...but then he was back, in an instant, and even lasted till the War of the Rings, and beyond. Elves are immortal, and more than just "unaging". Even when their bodies die, their fea perseveres, and they can be reembodied, so why does this thing that seems intended for all Elves instead seem to happen only rarely? Why was Gil-Galad left to linger in rhe Halls, when his skills, and leadership, could have done much for so many? Obviously, part of it is so death has meaning, as it does in our world; when people die here, they never miraculously return, but then why establish that this is a thing, at all. Why send back Glorfindel? If we knew that Gil-Galad was alive again, but just compelled to reside within Valinor, where the immortals are meant to be, that would make it easier, but here, it just seems like several "important" Elves should have already returned to life, as is their immortal prerogative, instead of just waiting for Tolkien's Armageddon, which he later decided might NEVER. happen.
Well, Glorfindel was sent to ME to help, as were the five Istari, so sending more elves is not really necessary. The other reason is that the Valar are somewhat jerks :D
All Elves that die in middle earth are going to the halls of mandos and are then reborn in valinor, as it is there fate to live there, thats why all the living elves in middle earth must leave middle earth finally, because otherwise they would fate there and become spirits. That glorfindel was sent back to middle earth is a rare exception for his great deeds he had done in the first age. Gil-Galad obviously also did an great deed in defeating Sauron, but maybe the valar knew eru´s plan and that Gil-Galad had no more role to fullfil in that plan, unlike Glorfindel who was meant to be helping our heroes of the lord of the rings until finally he also has no more role to fullfil and is thus going back to valinor with gandalf and the other elves.
For sure we know that Finrod Felagund got a new body. As for the rest, besides Glorfindel, we can't be sure of that. We would have to start from the moment the elvish soul is ready to get the body recreated with the help of the Valar. Gil-Ghalad deserves the get back on his feet asap. Lets say he was good to go after a few hundred years. Lets say he is willing to go to ME, he is able to overcome his desire to be in the undying lands, would the Valar let him do it? I'm sure that among thousands of elvish souls who suffered because of Sauron many would want to go back to ME to kick his a... and go back to the Valar. Yeah the Valar are jerks esp. towards men who were always the worse children. I'm not talking about the ban for entering the undying lands. Besides Ulmo the rest seem not to like men
In the Fourth Age, Aeglos, the spear of Gil-Galad is found by a dwarf. Chained by magic, a wraith of a man from Angmar is bound to the spear as a punishment. In 1183 of the Fourth age, a quest to discover a Palantir is started that leads to adventures unknown.
Source?
@@williamference9221 I'm writing it. New Shadow Rising and the Red Tree on Wattpad.
@@shadowofchaos8932 Probably should mention the fanfic part in your original comment.
@@boc120 it's implied with the date. 1183 is way past anything previously written.
@@shadowofchaos8932 Looking forward to it!
Ew. Don’t use images from Rings of Power. Thats not LOTR.
Grow up.
It would have been an epically brutal end to have seen if they had included Gil-Galad's incineration in Sauron's hand in the LOTR movies.