Do I agree with
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 чер 2024
- 🔥 Learn languages like I do with LingQ: bit.ly/3TrWYqQ
🆓 My 10 FREE secrets to language learning: bit.ly/46ZawNp
CC subtitles available in multiple languages.
@JustinSung is someone I follow and find very knowledgeable when it comes to learning. But is his language learning advice as good as his videos on general studying? Let's find out.
Watch Justin's video: • Using "Interleaving" f...
⏲️ TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 - who is Justin Sung
0:49 - is it helpful to categorize knowledge?
2:26 - no clear strategy for acquiring vocabulary
5:15 - forgetting about relevance
6:53 - on the topic of critical videos
📺 WATCH NEXT:
Comprehensible/compelling input: • CI/Compelling or Compr...
What is comprehensible input: • What Is Comprehensible...
🎙️ LISTEN TO MY PODCAST:
Soundcloud: bit.ly/3iZsbic
Apple: apple.co/3z1F1lD
Google: bit.ly/2W3DYmK
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4TbcX8i...
💡 LEARN MORE:
Get my 10 Secrets of Language Learning: www.thelinguist.com
Download my FREE grammar guides: www.lingq.com/en/grammar-reso...
Join the LingQ Discord server: / discord
Read my language learning blog on The Linguist: bit.ly/2MW83Ab
Read the LingQ language learning blog: bit.ly/35yvaqK
✅ FOLLOW ME:
My Instagram page: / lingosteve_
My TikTok: / lingosteve
📲 The app I use to learn languages: bit.ly/46XClFV
🆓 My 10 FREE secrets to language learning: bit.ly/48fX8W9
❓What did you think of Justin’s advice? Tell me in the comments!
Hey Steve nic video! I am following Justin for a while now it's great to know that you also appreciate his content I think you should also check out "Benjamin keep" he also have some interesting things to say about language learning.
I HAVE BEEN COMMENTING ON MANY POLYGLOT VIDEOS INCLUDING STEVE KAUFMAN'S ABOUT TOTAL FAILURE OF CONVENTIONAL METHOD, STORYTELLING AND LINGQ IN GETTING ME TO EVEN BE BASICALLY CONVERSATIONALLY FLUENT. I HAVE WRITTEN TO LINGQ MANY TIMES. I WAS SENT SUGGESTIONS COVERING THREE PAGES. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO DO FIRST AND WHAT TO EXACTLY DO AFTER ALL THE 13 YEARS OF FAILURE. I HAVE MESSAGES ON THE PHONE OF LINGQ HEADQUARTERS.
WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? I WAS PROMISED AFTER THREE MONTHS WHEN DOING LINGQ I WOULD START TO UNDERSTAND. I WAS MORE THAN DEDICATED EVERY DAY. NOTHING HAPPENED. IT FAILED. THEN AFTER COMPLAINING I WAS SENT THE THREE PAGES THAT ARE CONFUSING.
WHAT IS WRONG?
-- GEORGE DECARLO
908-342-1275
Some people seem to think that being critical is necessarily negative. Constructive criticism is absolutely a positive thing.
Yet constructive criticism is hard thing to do cuz you have to include broad solution toward the problem you criticize.
I would say critisicm is negative, at least in my mind. What you call constructive criticism I would simply call 'analysis'. You can simply compare and contrast your way vs another person's way and give your thoughts on what works. It is up to the one who's way got analyzed to take lessons rom the analysis. To me the word criticize, is related to fixed mindset thinking. People who criticize see with certainty that only one way is right and no other way can be better.
Agree. He made a comment in one video he doesn’t like when people speak authoritatively on how to learn and study without having an understanding of the literature, but I get the impression here he hasn’t read any of the literature regarding language acquisition and is just treating it like any other subject.
I wouldn't think he is speaking as an authority on language learning, knowing his background. Justin wouldnt claim he was an expert either if you were to ask him in person. I would say it is the curse of being an authority figure. He is acting authoritative on the basis of general learning and his own learning experience. However, people who dont know him could mistakely think he's an expert specifically on language learning. This is why you should do your research and experiment yourself on what works. Dont fall into the trap of assuming authority is right no matter how many credentials they have.
@@roberttallafer2299 makes sense, in fact in this series he specifically says he isnt an expert on language learning at the beginning of in the '"interleaving" for language learning' video
I've only been a language learner for 5 years. However, I find the simple 80 / 20 rule of 80% mostly input and 20% review grammar & vocabulary to be effective.
What exactly do you mean by “input”? Do you mean “any input”, or “any comprehensible input”, or “only comprehensible input that I find compelling”, or something else?
@@Alfredecekall of the above.
I would tend to 90/10, maybe even 95/5
@@lhol1z Fair enough.
Good tip
When I was in school, high school, years ago (I'm around your age) I was terrible in Spanish class. I moved to Mexico and of course I learned Spanish "en la Calle" (and my mexican wife). Then I needed to learn Portuguese. Fortunately I saw one of your videos and took your advise. I learned Portuguese easily from UA-cam and reading stuff that interested me. Obrigado.
I learned by working in a Mexican grocery store after Highschool and watching movies, eventually visiting some Spanish countries and making friends.
What I've learned
1) in school they just hurl a bunch of words and phrases at you and with little little situational context.
2) movies can tell you how a words in a conversation in real time.
3) books can give you more vocabulary than conjunction tables
4) Visiting the country, and eating the food, participating in dances, entering the space overall.
Muito bacana seu relato!
Okay... it's great that you learned español, but my question is why did you NEED to learn Portuguese?
I've been learning my target language, Finnish, for a couple years now and would say I've made a lot of progress.
The most important factors are time, consistency, and passion/curiosity. Sometimes you will learn something and it will immediately stick. It could be the most random and useless word, but your brain decided to latch on to it. Other times, there may be an important and commonly used phrase that you need to hear, read, and say 20, 30, 40, even 50 times before it sticks.
You can learn any way you want, as long as you're putting in the time and consistency. Do grammar books interest you? Go ahead! Music and podcasts? Sure! Just stick with something that you enjoy doing for half an hour to an hour a day and switch it up every once in a while.
UA-cam gurus and polyglots have all sorts of advice. Just remember that it's advice, it's what's worked for them. You're allowed to try and see what works for you- even if a hyperpolyglot gigachad youtuber says it's ineffective. Everyone has a different brain that responds to different input in a different way.
Also, you will not become fluent in a year. Not even in Spanish or Dutch or Norwegian. And that's ok. Love the language you're studying, have fun, and put in the time every. single. day. It will come.
If you don't mind me asking, what is your native language and do you have any advice for learning finnish specifically?
I love learning new languages and I've learned a few to a certain level of proficiency without much problems. But I've been struggling with finnish and I started and quit learning it for a couple of time already throughout the years. How do you manage it, especially it's grammar?
Wow! Just imagining myself learning the way Justin says makes me fell so anxious😂
I much prefer Benjamin Keep to Justin. After watching many of Justin’s videos, I came to the conclusion that he purposely makes things so confusing so that viewers will be fearful and buy his course or else fail in life. Everything is ultimately a sales pitch. Benjamin Keep provides much more useful advice on learning.
I can't agree more!
I honestly don't see the confusion, but that might be because I'm used to math and the rigor so it doesn't proclude intuition but also refines it, it's just the way of rigor.
Steve you've helped me so much over these last couple years. I'm going to Japan to teach English soon (you really inspired me to do it) and I've learned so much from this channel. I'm so thankful to you for making these videos, and this is really my favorite language content on youtube. All of the information you provide has also bled into everything I'm learning, not just Japanese. Thank you so much Steve and best of luck with everything. I'll be staying tuned as usual :D
One thing that I notice is that he speaks very fast and doesn't change his speed to accomodate the learners they understandably look like they don't really get anything he is saying. It shows doesn't really know how it is to not understand a language
What level are those students that he's speaking to? I recognise that polite nod of "I'm not following this at all."
I really appreciate that you put the links within the description of the video. Thanks a lot 🎉
ChatGPT was a game changer for me. It allowed me to ask very specific, maybe even stupid questions that were holding me back. It also led me to a huge breakthrough - the language I was studying was spoken almost entirely in idioms. Ex: “don’t lick my eye,” translates in English to the expression: “don’t kiss my a**,” or “stop with the unnecessary flattery.”
what language is that?
@@angie.666 Spanish, but regional to Puerto Rico
@@vinceocratic Any Puerto Rican UA-camrs you could recommend? I'm following a ton of Cuban channels but could hardly find any specific to Puerto Rico with quality content, at least speaking in Spanish anyway
@@knmid El Tipo Official.
Most times I asked ChatGPT a question about Greek, I got a wrong answer. (And I"m not talking about Ancient or Koine or Byzantine Greek, but Modern Greek!)
Absolutely agree on the right to be critical
I can appreciate both sides of the argument and also respect both people involved in this critique. I feel that’s it’s worth acknowledging that the advice he gives the students is not intended to be comprehensive. Although not specifically mentioned in the video, a large part of Justin’s system is about being directed by curiosity and one’s interests - that’s a key part of making something contextually relevant and likely to be retained. I should disclaim that I am a student in his program so I may be biased, but the techniques that he teaches are not solely for academic application but learning in a more general sense including language. I suspect that comprehensible input has many similarities with the system that he teaches. In saying that, I would love to see you critique more videos of his. A conversation between the two of you would be even better!
I like this man! He brings new points of view and remains respectful and objective. New subscriber
I agree with Steve. I spend most of my time reading and listening. I simply don't like to talk, though I always serve as MC of big events.
How many languages does Justin speak? If someone only speaks his own mother tongue and the language their family speaks at home, I wouldn't take their advice on language learning.
Exactly! I wouldn't take the advice of _anyone_ who, as an adult, has never learned a language from scratch to fluency (or at least a high level of competency).
people who have only learnt languages as children don’t understand what it is like to learn as an adult. One of the worst people of this kind I ever met spoke fluent English and French. He continually corrected my French. He didn’t realise that people don’t learn by explicit instruction, and that you don’t pick up an accent in seconds after hearing the words spoken out loud. I gave up French as a result, only to restart 30 years later.
@@StillAliveAndKicking_bon courage
@@romanvercier3556 Thanks, however my French is now such that I can understand podcasts for native speakers. This is thanks to listening to the advice of many knowledgeable people including Steve Kaufmann. Language learning is a marathon, not a sprint. And more importantly we have today an incredible wealth of resources at our fingertips.
Yep, i think he might be suffering from guru syndrome.
Love that you aren’t afraid to speak your mind - something a lot of people won’t do nowadays (unless it’s behind a keyboard!).
Opinions are like arseholes; everybody has one.
Muchas gracias steve you are our inspiración!😊
😂 correction
Muchas gracias Steve tu eres nuestra inspiración
Mejoraras con el tiempo todo es práctica
Come on you the achieving
@@Expertoenergiasexual a quien corriges ? A mí, pierdes tu tiempo. I can speak and write both languages as well as him. U metiche. Bye.
This makes a great deal of sense to me. Many thanks :)
What you are talking about is what I read in a book “Toxic Positivity” and it’s a great book that talks about how people only phrase but suppress criticism or “negativity”. I love language learning and creative expression through it but must important is EMOTIONAL Expression❤ it is truly the foundation of language expression, since language learning especially for polyglots is more of an emotional based decision then logical❤ it’s our emotion, curiosity and our Brains reward system that constantly drives us to keep leaning and discovering new words and languages!
Yep, I get great pleasure😀
Yes, language learning has to be positive, if only to accept making so many errors while learning, and still retain a smile on ones face. I must admit that listening to a native French podcast, and understanding it, does bring considerable pleasure. Maybe we are dopamine junkies.
Can’t say I ever expected this crossover. You should consider a video with Justin, I think it’d be interesting seeing where you both agree and disagree when it comes to learning.
I enjoyed, thank you
I think a huge issue with the advice on languages given by ‘experts’ is that they are highly biased towards focused, academic learning - they literally cannot conceive of other types of learning useful skills outside this quite artificial world because thats how they learned, how everyone they know learned, and how they teach. They ignore the reality that millions of people now and through history learned languages very differently, usually just by absorbing the language through lived experience. This is a huge source of unconscious bias which leads to some quite awful advice, often given by very high level experts.
Good point. I've seen this with Ali Abdal too, especially with regards to his evidence based aversion to highlighting. Yes, if you're studying for exams, highlighting isn't necessarily a good strategy, but it can be useful if you're writing a complex research paper which doesn't require exam-level memorizing.
it helps, in my opinion is to sing and learn poetry in that new language.. phonentics...similar sounds. i can sing songs to n creole, but i can barely string sentence together. who listens to this dr.?
BTW i was a medical transcriptionist x 23 years Full-time. i learned latin to do that job. my job was to make it look likevthe doctor i worked for could speak good Englisjh, i spelled all the words, typed them out. latin is a great building block for many many languages. to know the history of the language helps too. did it come from phonecia? mesopotamia? egypt? the world book encyclopedia showe ancient letterforms of the word.
but yes, to actually use word, like order a pizza or go to the bathroom, ask where is the restroom? yeah, go to the market, hire a " boy" for about $2.00 to folow/ lead u around, and have your boy or maid translate, then just learn from that. i think not much is said i. these seminars or podcasts about the idea of having an employee, a servant, to help nsvigate the culture.
i think many of us, especially people from Belgium, the Netherlands, know three languages, at least.
i find myself reaching for Yiddish to describe common verbs. i think people from new york/ new Jersey/ Pennsylvania/ Connecticut, eastern seaboard, often use either irish or Yiddish words without a second thought. "schmooze,". is one ..to mean talking to people, networking, "working the room". another one in Yiddish (which is German Hebrew, now thats an oxymoron) is "Yente" or matchmaker. in Creole (French) we say "Feze'" or gossip, middleman. not a truly paid professional, but a person " in the know" whom u would consult, nonetheless.
i schmooze alot with Anish, so that hear germsn, " low german" a lot.
there is the written language, then there is the "patois" as u wouod say in French, the spoken language. i got rebuked by the Haitian people for saying '"map boule' " or " im hot" when asked how i am that day. well, temperature wise, yes i was hot. but was i really conveying temperature or was it all about sexual interest when i told them "i am hot"?!?!? yeah, useage is a big thing. "Miss Val", they said " Dont say youre hot"!! "say whats happening". or "I'm good ". M'ap Bien" in Spanish its " bueno". very similar. Sak Pase' -- Whats happening? " what it is" or " what is it?". many many words in creole are contractions , a syllable here and there. very subtle.😅
dr. larimer mellon, our main boss in Haiti where i worked at hospital albert Schweitzer, he used to study each language in the bible, and go on from there. there are gideon bibles in most hotel rooms, and they do not mind if you "borrow" them.
I think Wittgenstein's writings of languages as games further reinforces what games to you want to be competent at, do you want to be good at communicating in algebra? Spanish? C? Then you need to have plenty of input. I enjoyed learning to code when I had a project to work towards, rather than just learning IF statements stand alone.
I think Justin should read at least an introduction to Wittgenstein, Eric Bernes Transactional analysis, John Smiths essay on memory and learning, these writers already fill in a lot of what we keep rediscovering today.
This video is a good addition to the Justin Sung video, nice.
I really love and agree with what you had to say at the end about being critical! I think modern societies have become way too emasculated and emotional, so most people are scared to be honest in fear of the other person overreacting in anger. We are not to submit to such manipulation, but rather to be as honest and genuine as you can be and if someone can't handle a difference in opinion, that's their own psychological issue to work out.
Eaxctly. It's high time people who overreact to criticism were told to grow up.
Justin has a great point. It's the way I started learning recently, but he doesn’t know how to explain it properly. When Steve broke it down with writing out a text and translating, it made sense. I started learning Ukrainian two months ago, and I can already express a lot of what's on my mind. However; I am already a fluent Russian speaker. When I get tired of memorizing lengthy phrases I hop on link and upload articles to read. Going this route makes you can excellent speaker and a horrible listener😅 Some things just come down to individual prefernces and personality types.
The things is Justin Sung isn't focused on language learning. Also you can't hear him talking about things because he teaches almost everything on his course (iCanStudy), which is highly focused on academical studying and wouldn't be quite useful in a language learning context.
@@felipelunap Oh, I see. I never saw any of his videos about language learning. The small segments didn't portray the whole picture.
Reading and listening is very natural and a daily activity. Trying to strictly memorize the most common words in a language will keep you on the basic level. Saying "I spoke low" is very basic. Saying "I whispered" shows you're more familiar with the language.
There are words we don't use everyday, but when we hear them, we still know what they are many times because we read and listen in our language so much. I got more vocabulary through reading than I did trying to memorize words through brute force
A year into living in Japan and attending a language school with initially almost zero experience of the language I was ready to throw in the towel. Reading Japanese books for pleasure is so much more rewarding than cramming vocabulary that you barely, if ever, use in daily life.
I agree with you on this one
Hello I am from Morocco and I subscribed to your channel to learn English😊
We need more videos like this pointing out the good and bad of other UA-camrs. The internet in general is full of people giving advice that might or might not be correct. The "GIG Economy" or Work From Home channels are the worst. Many UA-camrs just reposting information with "I heard of this one person earning trillions of dollars delivering coconuts to people". ;-) Someone needs to point out the good information and help those trying to learn a new skill.
I completely agree, especially about the gig economy and working from home.
I just love how Steve says: "I... mean... to be critical!". And yet he isn't rude at all.
Thanks for another great video Steve. Now I have to get back to Pepper Pig in Brazilian Portugues 😀
boa sorte amigo.
@@jwiskikruger8921 thank you 😀
Comprehensible, engaging input all the way!
Do you think we can learn anything from other disciplines? For example, brands are always competing for a place in people's long-term memories. And one or the interesting ways they do that is by creating ads that rely on storytelling and making emotional appeals.
From my own experience with Korean, I find that occasionally phrases and scenes from K-dramas will come to mind (even if I've only watched them a couple times). I think because emotionally engaging, story-based media has characters, relationships, and makes people feel things it offers a kind of short-cut to retrieval. Almost subconsciously the brain thinks "oh, this is like that scene where x happens" and that makes finding contextually appropriate language relatively easy.
What are you thoughts? I'd be super interested to hear them. :)
The other interesting thing about advertising is that it has to be sticky. Media and production costs are so expensive. Time is short, and so are attention spans. So advertising strategists spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to make things more "sticky" with less (expensive) exposure.
You can not create yourself content that will be emotionally compelling and new to you while learning a language (if you know it, you don't need to learn it anymore).
But you can try and search for those things that touch you inside in the other language. That's the reason a lot of people uses "Friends" to learn languages (not just English) or read again books that know from other languages or join sport clubs while abroad...
A little bit of critic here. I want to share some of my experience learning English. I am learning English with your platform for quite a time through listening and reading. Benefited a lot, started working at company where I am communicating in English. I want to share also that I am not musical, has not musical education and considered not having talent in it. Recently I took pronunciation course and it was just groundbreaking for me. For example I couldn’t hear some sounds at all, because they do not exist in my language. I remember for example reading “Harry Potter” and in word Harry I heard it differently all the time, like hurry or herry. My first impression was English just used this sounds randomly, than I noticed that when I listened to the same sentence several times I perceived it differently from time to time. It was frustrating and of course it somewhat affected my confidence. It is even worse in the working environment when you are getting task incorrectly, working on it for some hours and then get what it really meant. 😂 So this theoretical knowledge that there exists different sound in English, that is somewhere in the middle was just groundbreaking for me. And there is several of this sounds in English, not just one. I am not of course trying to memorize rules for using this sounds, but using the language I am paying attention to them, try to produce them from time to time and with time I am sure I will be much better, especially in listening and understanding. I had same aha moments with understanding stress and rhythm in English and many other, quite theoretical instructions. So in my experience some instruction was very beneficial, having already enough exposure to the language and having experienced particular difficulties with it. I am even thinking of taking some grammar course or instruction now 😂 still not sure about it. Thank you for your platform and your inspiring videos. I just love them and would never be able to be at this point without them 😊❤
one of the most importantthings: empathy towards those you are teaching. I agree with your comments Steve, and I feel the advice is highly unpractical for learners. not everyone who is learning a language wants to know the theory about how to learn a language - there is nothing wrong with that but it shouldn't be imposed to the point where you are just confusing others...
interesting views on both sides. while i agree the tallying method mentioned isnt great for learning to even enter a conversation, it has been a good strategy for me using different languages in a work setting. small talk at work shifts day to day or depending on the background of customers so after a conversation, if ive had to ask the meaning of many words i do note them and often learn them and a variation that evening. not a great method to begin conversations but great for enhancing them
How are you supposed to keep a tally on all the words or all the common words that came up? Especially if it was a conversation? His claim on that just seems confusing.
I definitely think it depends on the person (: what works for one might be bad advice for another and vice versa
but sometimes it's not a thing of opinions, there are objective trues. The way the brain acquires languages is the same for everyone, it is like digestion, every human digestive system works the same because it has to be with the constitution of our nature. Well, it seems to be the same with the LAD (language acquisition device), it has to do with our brains constitution.
You are right❤ amazing teacher.but i have problem i didn't know how to use lingQ i mean how make lesson like import
I find it interesting how different efficient language learning is from what Justin is teaching which I will describe as 'concept relational learning.' Something I think about is if the two diciplines will converge as we come to understand the mind better. Could parts of language learning theory be applicable to general learning, and vice versa. Some day we will know.
I took justin sungs paid class online. It was horrible. Gods sake, perhaps because hes a doctor he tried to make his course the same way to pass exams on a simple course 😅. Maybe he went to a well-known school and had good grades, but thats basically all I learned from him with his course..
his advice is mainly for exams and recall. he’s recommending how you should do retrieval to make sure you’re ready for what may come up in a test/exam, as opposed to just learning each individual word (learning each word individually first, and then bringing them into different contexts and variations - interleaving). Also, when it comes to relevance and curiosity, languages are not inherently intuitive, so your brain doesn’t see any word as more relevant/easier to retain, so it isn’t as important
Sung seems to be that classic language 'advice giving' guy who has no idea what it takes to learn a language, but still tries to advise people about how to do it. There are so many people like this filling the internet with terrible advice. I can guarantee that he's never learned a language as an adult before, either that, or he's straight lying to people to make it _sound_ easy. It's bad enough that it happens on forums with posts from people who've never reached higher than A2, but it's 100x worse when it's someone trying to profit from it.
Hi @futurez12. your mean is Steven trying to profit from Sung's video?
@@hienhavan8157 It's clear they mean Sung is the one trying to profit.
@@hienhavan8157 He meant Sung is trying to profit from giving bad advice.
I've seen the video Steve's responding to here. The girls ask for advice on language acquisition and Justin states outright that his knowledge of learning doesn't apply well to language acquisition (that's where the bit about declarative knowledge vs conditional knowledge is leading to, if I remember right). But because they asked, he's trying to answer the question to the best of his knowledge. Idk what kind of content he's made since, but I wouldn't characterize him the way you have from this video alone.
Edit: I clicked through to the video linked in the description and it seems to be an edited version of the original conversation that I saw. In this version, the comment about his knowledge not applying well to language learning is not included and it seems like he has started trying to give advice for language acquisition. Still, I don't think it's coming from a dishonest place. It seems to me that he's trying to give good advice based on his understanding of the science but just doesn't have the experience to know how to guide language learners in applying that knowledge to their studies.
@@meaniezucchini5216 There's no 'science' in what he's said. If you're going to quote the 'science,' then you better be sure it applies to what you're giving advice about. He's giving advice in a field he knows nothing about. I'm assuming he's being paid for being some kind of guru, so at best, it's irresponsible that he's doing that; at worst, it's outright scamming people.
I ❤ LingQ
Cómo hacer el pago por rl acceso al servicio de ling Q?
Muchas gracias, y decirme el equivalente de un pen?
“Think about all of the possible pathways a conversation could take” literally an impossible task. I could walk up to someone and say “hello” and they could respond “cheeseburger”
Realistically, however, how likely is that? There are infinitely many combinations and yet one can correlate that certain sequences and combinations tend to appear together, indicative of causality than mere accident.
👏
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
The more I'm watching this video, the more I wish I could double-like, or triple like.
Something wasn't sitting right with Justin Sung's videos, not even on the context of language learning, but in other of his other videos as well.
Glad you took the time to do this!
Does Lingq have a tool to covert text in voice? Text to speech directly inside lingq?
Yes. If there are texts or if you import content without audio, you can generate audio for that lesson within LingQ. Lower left hand corner on lesson page.
I wish you would do 1 month free for new people that would possibly become customers. Pimsleur does this and I loved it.. it got me to purchase all the levels they have.. kinda.. they kept sending me free trials every month (I BELIEVE this was cause I kept reporting bugs) many many bugs.. I wasn't working for them.. but I think since I kept finding bugs, instead of paying me they would give me free trials. That would be what I would do anyway.. much cheaper.
I'm just halfway on the video but sometimes it seems like the strategies he presents already need to know the language in advance, BEFORE you learn the language, what it's absurd.
How can I know IN ADVANCE what variations of a word or sentence will be actually relevant to my interests and so on BEFORE I find texts or speakers of the language using them?
I used to to teach Italian and used to tell them in advance what options were important to learn as they are very useful/common/necessary due to politeness... and what options weren't, so they could focus on what was relevant to them at that stage.
BUT I WAS A TEACHER WHO ALREADY KNEW THE LANGUAGE AT A C2 LEVEL, not someone in the process of learning
I actually find Justin's advice very useful and I disagree with the criticism. I will create a video about that one day that people can click on, together with my product that I am selling.
The only thing that I don't understand is why there is a LinQ logo in Justin's clip? Is he also advertising Steve's product?
Wow❤❤❤ The most unexpected anime crossover of all time🎉🎉😂
👍
I think Steve's right here.
listening to a an educated monolingual about how to acquire a language is like learning how to make a profitable business from a business professor who own 0 business
is Justin Sung monolingual? I think he is, but I am not sure.
@@jinjurbreadman me neither, but assuming from his "method" of language learning he totally is
Unfortunately, when the self-proclaimed 'gurus' go out of their realm of expertise and start applying their heuristics universally, they tend to oversimplify and give people the wrong impression.
I think typically anyone who promises you can master a skill that others have difficulty in a very short period most often don't know what they're talking about or are grossly overestimating their abilities.
Thats unfortunately just the advertising, justin has decent credentials in teaching and learning to be a learning guru
@@jasondads9509 I get that there's marketing involved, but I think you can still market without giving people false expectations lol.
I also am somewhat familiar with Justin's content. I do appreciate that he's allowing the laity to become more familiar with metalearning and concepts in learning science. However, he has a tendency of overstepping boundaries of what the science claims and promises, and often conflates the same heuristics without noting the difference in the fact of the matter. Is it incompetence or money-grubbing? Either way, it's not a good look.
People seem to think that we acquire a second language differently than the first. Regardless of the 'methodology' we choose, the language skills still enter the brain in exactly the same way as the first. When a native speaker takes a class in economics, they are also acquiring new language at the same time, new vocabulary and new forms of mental representation and new ways to express concepts. There is no reason why we cannot do the same with a second language.
As for justin, he couldn't be more wrong. Again, regardless of what he thinks, language is not acquired explicity by studying, memorizing, translating etc, it is learnt implicitly even to the extent that meaning of language elements are formed intuitively (and independently) based on a context over a period of time. Meaning and comprehension ... EMERGE.
100% agree. Why people choose to ignore the methodology of native speakers, who comprise a sample size of billions of people, which includes themselves, is quite baffling, to be honest.
I agree
There are differences. A first language is learnt from scratch, meaning is inferred then reinforced. Some of it is taught explicitly despite what some say. Thus a child will sit on its parents lap, while the parent goes through a book pointing out animals, and their names. A second language learnt as an adult is not learnt from scratch, it is taught either via a mother tongue or some other language. Elements of grammar are often picked up by consulting a dictionary followed by huge amounts of practice. Some grammar is learnt by exposure e.g. verb endings. Yes comprehensible input is essential, yes huge amounts of learning is implicit, and yes explicit learning can be used. However elements learnt explicitly often don’t bed in properly until the learner is exposed to them in real life. Language is far too complex to be learnt explicitly, but explicit learning can help.
@@StillAliveAndKicking_ I think you underestimate the quality and quantity of comprehensible input native speakers receive between the ages of 6 to 16 which brings them from babbling to a minimum level of linguistic proficiency. These can be imitated by a language learner. If You spend thousands of hours watching science, mathematics, humanities classes in the target language, while exposing yourself daily to a wide variety of topics in the target language, and practising output consistently. You will acquire the language. It's the sheer volume that is the difference. I would caution giving excuses and saying it is impossible to learn like a native speaker when one hasn't tried.
It's different from A1 to early B2. After that you can mostly do the same things a native speaker does between the ages of 6 to 16 to reach high C1.
How do you deal with identity problems in terms of languages. You know the language pretty well and feel connected to those cultures yet the people see you as a foreigner and don't want to speak to you in the language and don't befriend you. I speak around 7 and this has been a problem for half my life (I'm 23).
Maybe is not due to the language.
There are many different components of why someone would like to speak to you, to be your friend or whatever the interaction.
As someone almost twice your age who has lived in a few countries, don't get bothered by "been treat as a foreigner", whatever it actually means, because:
-you ARE actually a foreigner and
- you can be the foreign friend/colleague/whatever of whoever and it can be as good as as any other relationship.
The goal of having a language and cultural level that fools the natives isn't realistic for over 90% of us (maybe 99%) and also...it's not actually necessary.
As soon as you can keep a conversation quite fluid for over half an hour, the issue isn't anymore language but social and personal situations.
Do you consider as friends of yourself all the rest of native speakers of your country, just because you can speak with them? Why should they consider you their friend JUST because of you been able to speak?
Be gentle, smile and always have a good joke. Most people will never be our friend in any language, but some will be. Those are the only ones who count.
PS: and you only need two or three good friends to get really deep into a certain culture. Quality overrides quantity .
People are not all the same. Some will always just see you as a foreigner, others treat you as just another person and judge you based on your personality.
I mean, Sung himself said that he is not specialized in learning languages.
That doesn't exempt him from criticism. If anything, someone who admits to being underqualified shouldn't give advice.
Right you are! That’s because you practice teaching languages. But that guy knows just a strategy, like an owl from a story about mice and hedgehogs.
So, Justun’s silly strategy just doesn’t work when it comes to real lessons.
Learning languages is like learning to play a tune on a new musical instrument.
I have a suggestion for the two of you. Learn a language unrelated to any of the languages you already know for a limited time, with your own respective methods and make a video where you two try to discuss a topic and see who manages better with what method.
the LingQ guy speaks more than 10 languages. just look at his videos.
@@superdog797 That doesn't say anything about how fast it is to learn the same language with 2 different methods.
Translating to target language using Google Translate method also can be used for generating comprehensible input for every level.
Justin just shows a master of all is a master of none.
2 ways to learn the language: move to the country, or submerge yourself completely in the media and the culture that is spoken in that language
5:00 Lingq is a mess! The timestamp doesn't work properly.
It depends on content. We are working to improve the time stamping. I use it a lot. Which language are you learning?
@@Thelinguist Hi Steve, thank you for responding. I've been learning English. I used to be a LingQ premium subscriber, but I stopped when I noticed that many lessons weren't functioning correctly. I couldn't resolve these issues, and it was frustrating. So, sadly, I decided to cancel my subscription. Thanks a lot.
Impressive demolition.
I didn’t understand why Steve didn’t like it here. As I understand it, Justin gives advice on how to develop speaking and, in general, the practical use of language in the most effective way, which in no way contradicts Steve’s methods through passive immersion in order to naturally expand your vocabulary and thereby develop your listening and reading skills. I can say from my own experience, who has been “learning” English for many years, and who has already spent thousands of hours on passive learning, through listening and reading, and 0 hours on speaking and writing (difficult, boring = laziness), in the end I came to this , that in general I understand a lot of things, but I can’t say or write absolutely anything. Now I’m thinking about the best method for myself to develop speaking/writing and I’ve already leaned towards some of the things that Justin voiced. Even so, I will continue my many hours of daily passive immersion through listening and reading to expand my level of understanding.
Something Steve mentions briefly in other videos, but makes very little mention of otherwise, is the importance of speaking a lot in order to get good at it. He believes in lots of input first, but since his schtick with Linq is mainly "input", he doesn't place emphasis on output in his videos. His video on the IELTS test with an IELTS teacher is probably more indicative of his actual views on speaking. Personally, I disagree though. You should start speaking as early as possibly, because there is a certain muscle memory and automaticity involved in speaking that takes a long time to learn. Even if you don't have much to say, you can still try to say things with the limited amount of words you know. In fact trying to say things within the limit of the words you know is a great communication skill.
@@Gabu_Dono yes, I realized a long time ago that the main message of most of his videos is to attract users to his LingQ, and thus he doesn’t say a lot of things, unfortunately. Although, it seems to me, his generally excellent tool will not suffer at all if he will covers the whole picture as a whole, impartially, and as one of the handy tools, he can recommend his LingQ for the development of passive language skills, which occupy the vast majority of the overall process of language acquisition.
Wow. I know Justin Sung as somebody who teaches how to learn subjects. I didn’t know that he is a polyglot.
Oh, I thought you were going to talk to him, lol. This is some kind of response video. OK, I’ll still watch.
His approach to learning is targeted to people in school. The first thing he mentions is university and school.
I didn't care for his advice in this video either. I'm sure anyone trying to speak a foreign language at some point will try just translating their inner monologue into the target language and it's a tiny built helpful but just a little bit. The meat and potatoes will come from consuming lots of content and having lots of conversations. I don't think he said anything useful in this video. What's more you could tell their English was very basic and he didn't grade his language at all. I was pretty blown away by that.
A lot of people struggling to learn a foreign language go looking for language learning advice and there's a LOT of Japanese people who think they want to learn English and are therefore looking for advice on how to learn English. Teaching English is a huge industry in Japan. Of course languages are really hard but if you really want to learn you're going to figure out what works for you through trial and error and sheer willpower or passion. I see people like those girls in the video and I want to tell them my advice is to stop asking other people for advice and just go figure out yourself through trial and error what works for you.
Agree. The students said nothing, which speaks volumes.
Yeah, so I don't think I'm going to be taking Mr Sung's advice about language learning. Tallying up the most common words you use? That sounds terrible. Before taking language learning advice from someone, I would find out how many languages they speak, and then find out at what point in their life they learned the language(s) (as a child, as an adult).
I totally agree with using comprehensible input about topics that you are interested in. I also think that spending 20% or so on grammar (which is not entirely unavoidable) and 80% on listening/acquiring vocabulary/speaking/reading/whatever is the best method for language learning.
Yeah, idk if Justin even speaks a second language tbh
Secret for learning a language : live in the country and avoid speakers of English & English books/videos/etc. It works every time.
A lot of people live in a foreign country without ever gaining competence in a foreign language.
@@Musicienne-DAB1995 ...because they don't avoid using their native language
I think Justin Sung is saying we should generally study with the aim of being able to express ourselves and understand a variety of related expressions, instead of merely learning, say, whatever single sentence our textbook contains. I.e., flexibility.
Justin seems very unclear in his messages much of the time. As an instructional designer with a lot of reading in the research on teaching methods I find much of what he says contentious and frankly, just him voicing opinions.
If he exercised the scientific method and performed some RCTs and published the results of those I'd be more inclined to take him seriously. Instead he seems to talk a lot about his ideas and push his courses - which means he has a conflict of interest.
Your disagreement with Sung highlights one of the most important things I've learned from Krashen's comprehensible input talks, and your content as well: that learning a language like any other basic set of facts is incredibly inefficient.
The better way to learn is to leverage the human brain's inherent method of acquiring language, rather than to treat it like any other arbitrary learning task.
I find learning the way Justin Sung describes it is a chore!! It's not fun and it forces the brain to work in ways that are not natural to the learning process that children learn when picking up languages.
The fundamental difference is that Steve treats people as human, Justin treats people as robot
I’m afraid I find Justin Sung’s videos too long winded, there is sometimes something worth hearing, but there’s too much aimless waffling. Life is short. In any case, anyone serious about language learning will know that there is only one secret to language learning, and that is huge amounts of input, and hard work.
See, I would argue that is just as vague as the advice given by Sung in the video critique. Hard work is not a strategy or set of steps. Justin’s whole things is about learning the concepts rather than the details first. Sure, you could just listen to a person speak in your target language and you eventually pick things up contextually, but it would be a lot faster if you had a strong schema through which to simplify and make sense out of the new words. I’d be keen to hear your thoughts though because in my mind, input is just the ‘quantity’ component of learning and does not address the ‘quality’ aspect of it
@@PeriodiseThis5197 My words were just a brief comment, rather than an exposition on second language acquisition. If you want to find out more, look at the theory by Stephen Krashen. Essentially an adult can learn a foreign language largely through exposure to massive amounts of so called comprehensible input (CI) i.e. example speech and text where the student understands most of it. They can look up explanations for the bits they miss, ideally in a book written in their target language. Many people, myself included, argue about details of his theory, but overall it appears to be valid. I’m going from memory, but I think JS sees language learning as an exercise in efficiently memorising, and the trick then is to maximise the efficiency of the memorisation. It isn’t, it’s totally different. We know traditional classroom based language learning does not work. You can take Stephen Kaufmann’s word for what works, or listen to others. Today while driving to and from the ice rink I was listening to French language podcasts made for French people and I understood almost every word, thanks to using CI over the last year. I had very basic French at the start. So although I have a tiny fraction of the experience of SK and others, I can assure you CI works. SK is pushing his application LingQ of course, but it’s better than most other language apps, in my opinion. I watched a video by JS on learning information such as history. The first 15 minutes was vague, and pointless. There were then a few minutes of very useful information, but not particularly well presented, at least not in my opinion. I think he has useful things to say on learning facts, but not languages.
declarative, procedural and conditional? lol... huh? I'd rather learn language like children learn!!
Children also have the advantage of greater neuroplasticity than adults. I suppose the advantage of putting fancy names to different types of knowledge is having greater specificity. When I say I learnt something, that could mean any number of things and says nothing about the category or type of knowledge that I gained. Procedural is usually seen as skills (playing football, flying a plane); declarative (facts, figures, describing processes); conditional (knowing which knowledge is appropriate and most correct for different contexts). Yes, it’s all learning, but it helps to be specific because the strategies you use to gain types of knowledge varies.
I've been watching your channel for a while and feel inspired to learn languages after watching... But what really leads me to want to learn languages is the connection i would feel yo more people around the world. This is especially true for me now, watching what is happening in Gaza to 20,000 innocent people. And i just wish with all my heart for their safety and to be able to understand Arabic, so i can witness the love and care and generosity of the doctors, the journalists, the neighbors, and the children who are being affected-- in their own language without subtitles... So than none of their brilliance is lost to translation.
And i ask you, please, as a multi-lingual person who has studied Arabic-- How does understanding the language of the oppressed give you more global understanding? How does it give you more compassion? How do you have ability to engage with media and news and see past hateful propoganda? The world knows what is happening in Gaza. But they don't know how to process it or to act. Please be a voice that helps them do that.
There is too much politics in your post, and that doesn’t belong here. But note that Arabic is not one language, it’s a bit like using Romance to mean French, Italian, Catalan, Spanish, Rumanian, Sicilian etc. Moroccans will not understand Syrians, but Palestinians might.
@@estoy_aprendiendo_espanyol The reason why you shouldn’t talk politics is because the Israel-Palestine issue is complex, and discussion would lead to off topic arguments. Most discussions I see, including yours, are extremely simplistic and one sided. Unfortunately this polarisation is a feature of most discourse today, arguably becuase social media creates and thrives on discord.
@@estoy_aprendiendo_espanyol Clearly politics had something to do with the status of the languages. How does the Israel Palestine situation relate to this video? It doesn’t. And I would recommend you to read more deeply, to understand each side, though to be honest it’s so depressing I prefer to stick to language learning.
Steve Kaufmann inshallah
言葉が好きなのは女だ
話はしても意味ない
何も通じない
力、権力の前ではなんの役にも立たないだろう
少なくとも私の人生では話をすることで楽しい思いをしたことはない
The girls in the video look mind numbingly bored.
Gudbayugevmatal
I just can't understand why some people learn so many languages. It's just a pain to be honest. I mean unless you really need it what's the point?
I learned 2 and 1/2 foreign languages out of necessity. The first I need for consuming media and at work. The second one I need at work and to be able to communicate with family and the the third one purely for work related tasks.
Luckily for me all these languages are not the most difficult to learn.
Personally I never learn something if there's no tangible or useful reasons for learning it.
Felt the need to vent a little?
I know everyone here tends to pretty much only agree with you, because it's you, but I think you've been a little off lately. I understand the need for creating content and praising on Krashen's work and comprehensible input can only be repeated so many times, but your idea of 'the words are going to appear' can only get you so far. If that were entirely true, I wouldn't keep running into new expressions and words in Polish every single week in the past 6 years (that is 6 years of fluently speaking the language) that I've lived in Poland people have different ways of talking and different patterns of speaking too, there's even a word for 'maybe' that I heard for the first time just last year. Of course on a larger scale, that makes sense, but saying you can't just think of a word and incorporate it into your vocabulary because you thought of it is absolutely not correct. You can not expect every single important word to present itself in a natural environment, there's work to be done and sometimes that work comes from our own creativity.
I've been a fan of your work for a long time, there's no doubt in that, I just feel like these video criticism is not your best one, hope you can appreciate the feedback, love from Poland.
I don’t know how this debunks what he’s saying. Comprehensible input method still applies to very uncommon vocabulary. You just have to expose yourself to the type of vocabulary you want to acquire. Ask anyone with a large vocabulary in their native language what their advice is and it’s reading or listening to podcasts a lot.
When it comes to part of the video after 2:26
I think Justin Sung is right
He simply said
-we dont want to learn only one way to speak about certain topic
-We don't want to learn words in isolation because one word will give us nothing
-We dont want to learn only "My name is Justin", we also want to learn "I am Justin, Hi"
He simply said, we should expose ourselves to different possibilities, not necessarily learn one phrase and expect it would be enough, because our listener can say the same thing in many differents ways and we can be surprised
I undestood it in this way :
-Justin Sung says exactly what is said in your Channel
-We want to learn words related to each other,
-If we learn one word, we will never use it because it has no ties with our prior knowledge
If you read book about economy, you will learn certain words which are so close because all of those words created one story,
-He emphasizes that our new knowledge has to be related to prior knowledge because it is getting meaningful for us.
- If you learn one word, then you should learn words which are related to this topic
To sum up, i think he has similar point of view but he doesn't have to think about specific plan regarding language learning because he learns something different
"no clear strategy for acquiring vocabulary" - Yes, he didn't show clear strategy, but his general idea and viewpoint are really helpful
And this is why I watch channels like yours, because you talk about language learning more specifically and you show strategy for doing it
Please notice 3:12 - 3:20
He said exactly what you say in your videos, we want to learn words in different contexts, he didnt emphasize too much that we should learn words only by memorization
Yes he said about it but he didnt highlighted it so much
3:15
The quote from Justin
"we want to practice them together and in different contexts"
It means : together, many situations, - exactly what you are talking about
I think 3:40 you slightly over-interpreted his words
4:10 - I think in this part of video you are right, frequent words will appear and we dont need to learn it by pure memorization
Edit : I started learning English seriously since February current year, i did huge progress with your channel
Edit 2:
I saw his video earlier because i also follow his Channel, when i was watching him i thought "he has similar point of view like Steve but he devotes his live for different things than learning many languages"
Olhaddayjarjeesaßkigisfatar
Uitucakfàtarceldarn
So he's giving advice on how to learn English in ... English???? If they can understand him, they can already understand English quite well... The only thing now to help them SPEAK better, is for them to acutally speak.
Agreed, the two Japanese students are already quite advanced in English, or would have to be to understand what he is saying.
The best method to acquire a foreign language is to follow the bible recommendation ... can't get into heaven unless we become children again ... children do not analyze nor do they theorize about what they're going to say ... Just say it!
'some of the misconceptions there are out there about language learning' - God hath spoken! I'm not trolling but simply trying to open people's eyes to the cult following some UA-camrs have. How can you be so conceited as to believe you know how it all works. Dedicating time to dismantling what other people say is not a good sign, Steve, nor does it reflect well on you as a person. Each and every one of you only cares about how many subscribers you've got. Sad really.
Are you the same Steve kaufmann being named in the Epstein documents?
what do you think?
So, I've been doing well through my language learning process.
I never follow any sort of advice from Chinese people.
that's it!