I have been in the fandom for 5+ years at this point. Honestly it depends on what you want out of the fandom. Fursuit? Art? Sonas? Badges? Yeah you'll need money for that. But i don't have a fursuit, and can barely afford art or other merch. But i was able to meet some really great people as a result which at the end of the day, as cheesy as it sounds, is truly priceless
Twitter followers is actually very important when you wanna sell a product. I’ve been having trouble paying bills, so I’ve slowly been opening up for simple commissions. But despite being a fairly decent artist, I get absolutely no customers. I’ve had 2, and one was a close friend.. while people with 50k followers can earn literal hundreds of dollars/euros on YCHs. I honestly have no idea how people get followers. I’ve been putting my art up on the internet for 12 years, still only have maybe 700-800 followers in total across all platforms.
I’m having the exact same issue, I see some people selling simply drawn drawings (no offence to any artist) but the art I was offering was medium quality and offered at a ridiculously low price but people still don’t take it, it’s weird
Aww, sounds like you two have run into what we call “United States business owner syndrome”. Larger people take your profit because it’s A. Easier and more “accessible”. B. It’s what’s popular or most known . C: corporate giant disorder .
it really is strange. I’m a digital anime artist of nearly 7 years and dipped my toes into the furry fandom this month by making a fresh new instagram account. within a week ive had about 5 people asking if my commissions are open and accumulated 100 followers from zero in 3 weeks, without ever mentioning/promoting this new account on my anime art main account. I think personally for me, interacting with as many people as possible (commenting compliments on others posts, joining discord servers) while posting my works on other platforms (discord & reddit for me) significantly affected my reach. I don’t really get it either.
I feel like focusing on becoming popular and "winning" the Fandom is just gotta ruin your time in the Fandom You don't need luxury items to enjoy your time in the Fandom and make friends or create art Idk maybe its just me but I think it might also be a maturity thing When I was younger I 100% was obsessed with popufurs and wanted a suit and all kinds of luxury furry items But now as an adult its like,,, man I'm just here to talk to fellow anthro fans and draw art for me and others
"The furry fandom isn't just about the money or the fursuits or the cute uwu fursonas, the one thing that has sort of kept me in the fandom has been" the mets baby, love the mets, alright baby lets go, get a home run baby, love the mets, lets go mets
Wow, I cannot believe this video turned out to be nonsense, if only someone else were to warn me beforehand! But alas, there was definitely no warnings of this issue beforehand…
This does seem to be an ongoing trait in most of the popular fandoms, not just the furry fandom itself. Perhaps some people don't realize that humans and their personalities are unreplaceable and therefore invaluable, while the costumes can be replaced so long as the required materials are left.
During the video, it reminded me of the quote you posted on Twitter: “ ‘Popular’ furries want to be treated like people” And I find it a great quote that can apply to a lot of popular people, because maybe not all UA-camrs or celebrities want to be treated as higher persons, and just want to be among the people. Also, that encourages me to want to talk to you more to become friends because that is taking me out of the mindset of “Oh, he doesn’t want to talk to me because I’m not popular or I’m a nobody to him!” And more as “He wants to be open and make more friends, or even just acquaintances with people like me, who live in the sidelines most of the time”
I feel like this applies to the Brony Fandom as well, to a much higher degree. Whats even worse is how often of the more popular people of the fandom gatekeep others.
Wow, came to comment about this too. There was this stint in say.. 2016 I feel? Of being popular, especially with "Ooo I know the analysis community" and stuff like that. I'm not really in the furry community, but theres a lot of the same "I want to be popular because I can be" going around from what I can tell.
well there is tons of stuff to win, relationships eg (friends, boyfriend/girlfriend), popularity eg (majira strawberry), money eg (being an artist or having a furry talent or again being popular and people just giving you stuff) so while i dont think its completely pay to win there is absolutely an incentive to pay more for a fursuit and commissions and make stuff
It is essentially p2w. Some people will choose friends based on who has the best art and it kinda feels like it's saying money buys friendship. At least in my experience
There's also a vary common mindset that people without fursuit aren't furries or can't be part of the community from people who do when you really look around it's a relatively common occurrence... I've been part of furry groups trying to make friends and straight up have had multiple people refuse to talk to me when they found out I don't own a fursuit even recently met someone who was talking to for awhile wanted to hangout at anthrocon and changed they mind about wanting to meet me sense I don't own a fursuit that they could pose and take pictures with.
But technically, it's not pay to win as you aren't getting items to complete an objective, it's more like a ornament / participation trophy. Sure, you could make a game where you get more points for the more furry stuff you have (like a fashion show), But that's not the main point of the fandom.
It depends on what the objective is for you. If popularity and power is the goal. Then fursuits are the items, going to furmeets, social interactions etc is the gameplay and popularity is the reward. But if you just want a fun group to hang out with, none of that matters.
i think that there is a noticeable difficulty with putting your self out there for art and as well just for creating social relationships, you try to open up and be social but there is little to no response, for the people you would want to attract socially and i do think that just puts the individual in a weird place where they need to be in a certain place in the furry ladder. And it sucks that some people judge them like that, like its an auction of friendships, where some of the people who you think want to be friends with you, only want what you offer and it makes you blind to the very few people who would like to know you but they blend in so well with the rest that its difficult. i noticed that just...many people have no time to get to know new people anymore, and it leaves genuinely good people feeling miserable
ohhhh boy, i have a lotta thoughts about this ... alright. story time so beta mentioned that there're ppl who are here for friendship and companionship, and there are some who are here for fame and materials. personally, it's a spectrum + those two types of ppl are at each end, with most, if not all, furries lying someplace in between. sometimes i feel more materialistic (on my worse days when i'm a bit more hopeless about my stay in the community)/ sometimes i feel more desire for true connections. ,, but ig my first experiences did not shape me well. i was in a few furry-adjacent servers/communities (most notably jonah scott's discord server) where a lot of its members were incelish men who seemed more geeky than furry. as such, i felt real nervous around them, and as i grew to question my own gender, i wanted to put more space in-between me and them, but it was, and still is, hard to do that when those are the only ppl that act like they'll accept you, but to me, it feels like they're tryna pull me back into the abyss of masculinity and i hate it but i derailed big-time. what was i gonna say? oh right it doesn't help that a lot of the folks with nice fursuits and lavish art of their fursonas (or who create lavish art themselves) often have the most attractive personalities and the best stories. when i look round at the new/young furries gasping for attention like it's oxygen, i see a lot of commonalities between them that i'm not interested in due to personal preferences but i don't know why they can't just be friends! or if they're looking for someone who contrasts their personality, i don't know why they don't express it...? or wait, i do know. social anxiety is a big thing. a massive thing. especially in the kids of the furry community. but in retrospect, from my perspective, i don't think i was too shy to interact with furries bc anxiety; i think it was just cos i was worried that because i didn't fit all the tropes of the "fandom." and if this is a place where individuality is supposed to be celebrated, then why do i need to fit in anyway? i don't need to be a femboy protogen, i want to bring unique ideas to the table. the fursonas i had (and still have) in mind were based off the "cool kids" from my former high school & i thought that would be weird because most furries came from geekier backgrounds and i'd seem like a threat or something idk i might edit this later. my brain's mush and i got a whole lotta other things begging for my attention rn so. who knows
I have the same opinions as yours: both sides are valid, and depends on your perspectives and experiences in the fandom. Personally, I enjoy the furry fandom for the community, not for the material goods, but I can see the opinions from the other sides and they are equally valid.
the whole point of a fandom is... your a fan of a certain thing. If you see it as a popularity contest/want to become popular in said fandom then it kinda doesnt feel like your in the fandom for its reaso, you just want all the attention. Not about fandom anymore, its about being popula.r- the total opposite of what fandom is. ok sure you may accidental your way into becoming popular and depends on how you deal with that popularity, its fine (i.e jacksepticeye vs the paul brothers). if all you want to be in the furry fandom is popular, best to get rid of that mindset. a fandom, in this case, is to share your love, appreciation and joy of anthropromorphic animals. from sonic, to disney to mlp- whatever it may be. if your 'goal' is to be popular.... just kinda defeats the spirit of what a fandom is
We see western styled furry fandom as a capitalistic game, since the richer you are the more /better art you can afford thus boosting your popularity etc, being furry is a luxury after all
Honestly the fandom is so like materialistic these days it's sad. People at fwa literally were asking for follower counts before they would even talk to you. Absolute insanity
I get what you're saying :') I feel like I'm mostly there for the people who are like me, and very accepting, but I love the idea of getting to show off my fursona and show others my love for my furrified identity. So basically, the fun luxuries are a bonus that I enjoy, but only because I can show my sona to others, and what they mean to me ^^'
I feel like this idea boils down into the concept of consumerism; pretty much all fandoms exist because of it. And sure, you can spend money on a fursuit, on art, whatever, but you can also go to local meets, or meet up online, for free. Doing one or the other doesn't make you more or less of a furry. So I say it's not a matter of pay-to-win, especially since there are furries who own, like, three fursuits and rightfully lose their following because they're awful people.
I'd say that, though looking at the fandom as if it's pay to win is valid, it is not a helpful mindset. All this thinking does is set you up to feel alienated from others due to confirmation bias. Though this thought isn't out of no where. Growing up in a mostly capitalistic society some of us don't know how to interact without the means of items to channel our thoughts and personality. A few ways I'd suggest remedying these feelings are 1. Include others that may not be as well off as you. You may not be able to afford a lot, but there is always someone that can afford less 2. Create something youself! The best way to interact in the fandom is expression. Weather that be through a suit, merchendice, videos, knitting, sculpting or drawing. If you can't afford something you want. Try and make something. 3. Support smaller artists that may not be so expensive. This is a community above all, and communities thrive through trading goods, and supporting someone who is just starting out can strengthen yours and their bonds to the community we are trying to crate. Though, money can make things easier in the moment, it won't give you the true connection everyone is striving for within the fandom, it's really getting out there and crating meaningful connections that will make you feel like you belong.
What I do, is pick who is want to hang out with. Some aren't so great and some are amazing in my eyes. But thats just it, I do and don't go for good looking art and fursuits. And even with the great ones, I actually start to make a bond with them and then slowly care less about their content and more about them as a person. Its a weird thing but I think its (not great but also not bad) sort of good. If that makes sense.
What I see from a person that's been in the fandom for 28 years. You have ones that will eat a handful of sunflower seeds for food daily to go to a con / save for a fursuit. Putting their need to go to a con / get a fursuit before health. There are ones that go to a con to drink as much as possible, hook up with as many people as possible. Most will go to just hang out, stay up late and enjoy not having to work, or go to school. "winning" really depends on the person, the one that said its pay to win is wishing they had cash to get a futsuit, goto cons and be popular. That's how they feel that's they are going to validate their fandom experience. Me being an old fart in the fandom now, my win is, go to a con, chill out, run around in my not cute suit with my good friends, run my dealers den, and not worry about my day job.
The pay to win aspect of the furry Fandom is the cost of the materials. Fursuit $3000, custom plush $2500, art $200, travel $1000, food $300. Friendship and imagination free. Life and any Fandom has something in common, what's "winning"?
I agree with you, Beta. There is a lot of overlap, whereas the Furry Fandom is inconsistent with just one lifestyle. There are multiple people whom enjoy the aspects of admiring the deep intricacies of humane friendship, whilst others want only to do with the materialistic precepts of the fandom. In essence, no matter how you look at the fandom. You will always observe something that can be traced back to hedonicity.
In all honesty life is pay to win the more money you have the longer you'll live the the more "friends" you'll have. Money doesn't buy happiness but life is set up where the less money you have the harder it is to achieve happiness.
not exactly. there is a low bar for where happiness can be achieved with a low level of money. like, so long as you have your basic needs/ bills covered, happiness can be reached. being below that level only makes it harder but not impossible. having too much too fast can have the opposite effect because the standard for happiness raises with stress of managing it without going overboard. if that makes sense.
I wish a furry youtuber would talk about all the cool things you can commission from artists for your fursonas. Like, I'm not just talking about art, I mean e v e r y t h i n g Like a list of all the things you can commission and some great creators for each. Like art (of course), badges, fursuits, plushies, fursonafy photos, vr chat models, face masks, pins, etc. Like, as somebody who loves to buy things for my fursona and give them lots of love, that'd be such a cool video :')
the problem with perspective is.... many people are right in a different way. You can say you need money, you can sayy you need connections, you can say you need logic but lets be real, at some distances, human perspective dont make sense anymore. You can think about the heat death of the universe or how the human perspective arises from nothing and at the same time you can say its all about money. You are technically correct but if thats the problem, make your niche community that isnt about money. A community is just a space people build, not a static book but if you see it that way, you will always see the people that validate your opinion
its clearly Pay to Progress. ;D or its only cosmetic, it doesn't give you a competitive advantage (it does give an advantage when attention is the win factor) (the copium response people tell themselves about a game they play.) the thing for fursuit or other "things" are more personal id than external. like. wanted those things long before knowing furries exist. and more interested in making those than just having. the thing with people though, it doesnt matter what you "have" its the personality/ the ease of relatable interests. so basically inter personal relations. communication. the exchange of thoughts in a non toxic manner. its hard to connect without communication.
money helps you in the fandom with a lot of things but you don't need it for everything within the fandom like meeting new people or maybe even a partner
Commodity fetishism is not valuing commodities more than relationships among people. It's referring to the idea that, in the said forces of production we live in, the given essential value to a certain commodity and the relationship between these commodities is how the force of production expresses itself. This is opposed to the view that the force of production expresses itself through the relationships between people involved in the creation of value (i.e. employee and employer).
Material fetishisum makes me sad, I started watching you a while back before you had your suit, your humor and speach patterns reminded me of my cousin, which at the time I found absolutely hilarious because he hated furries. I think that they might mean pay to win to become popular, in which case I’d say probably. Also I literally just joined the fandom cause I wanted to dress in a fuzzy animal costume, I’m not really here for much else lmao. So my win is kinda pay. But I agree that others can get their win without it and that whether not the fandom is pay to win depends upon what you want out of it.
I find it odd, you sound like you mock capitalism, despite enjoying all that art and decorations back there, that kinda exist because capitalism. I mean sure you can say there problems with the system, but it still gave us more than any other system ever done. And as for, is being a furry pay to win? Well... Is food pay to win? Or is living in general pay to win? I mean at this point you could just say existing is pay to win. But I don't think you really have to buy anything to enjoy the fandom . So many art sites with all kinds of furry content, all for the price of an internet connection. One should not be jealous and spiteful to those that are able to get a fur suit. Just do the things under your own financial means. That don't make you any less of a fan.
To credit though, paying for things in the furry fandom, especially things like conventions, fursuits, and furry badges, do feel kind of like a harry potter fan buying hogwarts robes and going to universal studios. Having a fursona gives you a character to represent as, and buying a fursuit allows you to cosplay (like the hogwarts robes) as a character. Paaying money, a lot of the times for a lot of people, can be like experiencing a different world with different people (who are usually much friendlier and accepting than most, as one of the fandom's highlights), and I see the liking of purchasing things, which is why I feel like I lean towards the monetary side. But for me there's no purpose if you can't have friends to talk to within the furry fandom, or friends who have fursonas, since you can make your fursona and their fursona friends as well, expanding worlds, people to go to cons with, people to talk to or roleplay with in the furry fandom, etc etc. I think the furry fandom needs both sides, and only having one would be a bit unbalanced. It'd feel lonely if there was no sense of community, but the community would struggle to meet others within it if there were no places to go for furries, or ways to express yourself.
Unfortunately, *moral* *standards* are as most things go a rare community when to people and to an exception furrys. It all fun and games until total disregard for people (no matter of they are furry or not) blames it something or someone else for the *gon* violence wrath then fix the problem.
Well, this is pretty a nice argument, i think that somewhat or in some way, furries can be pay2win (like in certain games), because people can buy fursuits, commissions like art or vtuber avatars (or all sorts of avatar ways), go to furry conventions where they are and stuff, people like me that can't buy a thing (they can't even partecipate furry events iRL, because are far af, while others can go ._.) so, yea, if there was a Robin Hood, for sure i can be happy too^^ (though idk if i'm right, i just tell facts^^")
Originally I felt: how is it possible to 'pay to win' as a furry? You don't have to pay for a fursuit or attend cons to be part of the fandom. VRChat almost everyday is a 'FurCon'; you use your avatar as a fursuit. So no I don't feel it's 'pay to win'. It's about appreciating the person behind the avatar instead of the avatar itself. Just like IRL, to appreciate the person behind the fursuit.
I came into the fandom wanting to make friends. It's been two years and I still don't have friends because people are scary and I'm a coward. But no one will reach out to me because I'm relatively unknown.
The friendships that keep you in the fandom...do you think those people would've given you a second look if you weren't a recognisable UA-camr with a fursuit? People like you really don't have the perspective to comment on the flaws of the fandom. You guys are the LEAST exposed to them
I have been in the fandom for 5+ years at this point. Honestly it depends on what you want out of the fandom. Fursuit? Art? Sonas? Badges? Yeah you'll need money for that. But i don't have a fursuit, and can barely afford art or other merch. But i was able to meet some really great people as a result which at the end of the day, as cheesy as it sounds, is truly priceless
You don't win anything in the fandom. It's simply a participation award.
Perhaps
are you sure? look at majira
Twitter followers is actually very important when you wanna sell a product.
I’ve been having trouble paying bills, so I’ve slowly been opening up for simple commissions. But despite being a fairly decent artist, I get absolutely no customers. I’ve had 2, and one was a close friend.. while people with 50k followers can earn literal hundreds of dollars/euros on YCHs.
I honestly have no idea how people get followers. I’ve been putting my art up on the internet for 12 years, still only have maybe 700-800 followers in total across all platforms.
I’m having the exact same issue, I see some people selling simply drawn drawings (no offence to any artist) but the art I was offering was medium quality and offered at a ridiculously low price but people still don’t take it, it’s weird
Aww, sounds like you two have run into what we call “United States business owner syndrome”.
Larger people take your profit because it’s A. Easier and more “accessible”.
B. It’s what’s popular or most known .
C: corporate giant disorder .
it really is strange. I’m a digital anime artist of nearly 7 years and dipped my toes into the furry fandom this month by making a fresh new instagram account. within a week ive had about 5 people asking if my commissions are open and accumulated 100 followers from zero in 3 weeks, without ever mentioning/promoting this new account on my anime art main account.
I think personally for me, interacting with as many people as possible (commenting compliments on others posts, joining discord servers) while posting my works on other platforms (discord & reddit for me) significantly affected my reach. I don’t really get it either.
I feel like focusing on becoming popular and "winning" the Fandom is just gotta ruin your time in the Fandom
You don't need luxury items to enjoy your time in the Fandom and make friends or create art
Idk maybe its just me but I think it might also be a maturity thing
When I was younger I 100% was obsessed with popufurs and wanted a suit and all kinds of luxury furry items
But now as an adult its like,,, man I'm just here to talk to fellow anthro fans and draw art for me and others
I feel that too. Hope you growth well!
"The furry fandom isn't just about the money or the fursuits or the cute uwu fursonas, the one thing that has sort of kept me in the fandom has been" the mets baby, love the mets, alright baby lets go, get a home run baby, love the mets, lets go mets
Wow, I cannot believe this video turned out to be nonsense, if only someone else were to warn me beforehand! But alas, there was definitely no warnings of this issue beforehand…
This does seem to be an ongoing trait in most of the popular fandoms, not just the furry fandom itself. Perhaps some people don't realize that humans and their personalities are unreplaceable and therefore invaluable, while the costumes can be replaced so long as the required materials are left.
During the video, it reminded me of the quote you posted on Twitter: “ ‘Popular’ furries want to be treated like people”
And I find it a great quote that can apply to a lot of popular people, because maybe not all UA-camrs or celebrities want to be treated as higher persons, and just want to be among the people.
Also, that encourages me to want to talk to you more to become friends because that is taking me out of the mindset of
“Oh, he doesn’t want to talk to me because I’m not popular or I’m a nobody to him!”
And more as
“He wants to be open and make more friends, or even just acquaintances with people like me, who live in the sidelines most of the time”
I feel like this applies to the Brony Fandom as well, to a much higher degree. Whats even worse is how often of the more popular people of the fandom gatekeep others.
Gatekeep in what way?
Wow, came to comment about this too. There was this stint in say.. 2016 I feel? Of being popular, especially with "Ooo I know the analysis community" and stuff like that. I'm not really in the furry community, but theres a lot of the same "I want to be popular because I can be" going around from what I can tell.
well there is tons of stuff to win, relationships eg (friends, boyfriend/girlfriend), popularity eg (majira strawberry), money eg (being an artist or having a furry talent or again being popular and people just giving you stuff) so while i dont think its completely pay to win there is absolutely an incentive to pay more for a fursuit and commissions and make stuff
The “stop wasting time watching my videos” killed me. But in all seriousness this discussion was good, it does really depend. A great video.
It is essentially p2w. Some people will choose friends based on who has the best art and it kinda feels like it's saying money buys friendship. At least in my experience
Can't really argue with this. Same with [insert other Fandom here]
lol like ingame purchases
Fursuit: 4399$ (TEMPORARY)
Art: 29.99$
Furcon access: 299.99$
@@ManaGoober agree with you
@@chromegism and you too dw nobody left out
There's also a vary common mindset that people without fursuit aren't furries or can't be part of the community from people who do when you really look around it's a relatively common occurrence... I've been part of furry groups trying to make friends and straight up have had multiple people refuse to talk to me when they found out I don't own a fursuit even recently met someone who was talking to for awhile wanted to hangout at anthrocon and changed they mind about wanting to meet me sense I don't own a fursuit that they could pose and take pictures with.
But technically, it's not pay to win as you aren't getting items to complete an objective, it's more like a ornament / participation trophy.
Sure, you could make a game where you get more points for the more furry stuff you have (like a fashion show), But that's not the main point of the fandom.
It depends on what the objective is for you. If popularity and power is the goal. Then fursuits are the items, going to furmeets, social interactions etc is the gameplay and popularity is the reward. But if you just want a fun group to hang out with, none of that matters.
@@andrewwatts1997 but the main goal for most people is to have fun, so I was generalising the statement
i think that there is a noticeable difficulty with putting your self out there for art and as well just for creating social relationships, you try to open up and be social but there is little to no response, for the people you would want to attract socially and i do think that just puts the individual in a weird place where they need to be in a certain place in the furry ladder. And it sucks that some people judge them like that, like its an auction of friendships, where some of the people who you think want to be friends with you, only want what you offer and it makes you blind to the very few people who would like to know you but they blend in so well with the rest that its difficult. i noticed that just...many people have no time to get to know new people anymore, and it leaves genuinely good people feeling miserable
ohhhh boy, i have a lotta thoughts about this ...
alright. story time
so beta mentioned that there're ppl who are here for friendship and companionship, and there are some who are here for fame and materials. personally, it's a spectrum + those two types of ppl are at each end, with most, if not all, furries lying someplace in between. sometimes i feel more materialistic (on my worse days when i'm a bit more hopeless about my stay in the community)/ sometimes i feel more desire for true connections. ,, but ig my first experiences did not shape me well. i was in a few furry-adjacent servers/communities (most notably jonah scott's discord server) where a lot of its members were incelish men who seemed more geeky than furry. as such, i felt real nervous around them, and as i grew to question my own gender, i wanted to put more space in-between me and them, but it was, and still is, hard to do that when those are the only ppl that act like they'll accept you, but to me, it feels like they're tryna pull me back into the abyss of masculinity and i hate it
but i derailed big-time. what was i gonna say? oh right
it doesn't help that a lot of the folks with nice fursuits and lavish art of their fursonas (or who create lavish art themselves) often have the most attractive personalities and the best stories. when i look round at the new/young furries gasping for attention like it's oxygen, i see a lot of commonalities between them that i'm not interested in due to personal preferences but i don't know why they can't just be friends! or if they're looking for someone who contrasts their personality, i don't know why they don't express it...?
or wait, i do know. social anxiety is a big thing. a massive thing. especially in the kids of the furry community. but in retrospect, from my perspective, i don't think i was too shy to interact with furries bc anxiety; i think it was just cos i was worried that because i didn't fit all the tropes of the "fandom." and if this is a place where individuality is supposed to be celebrated, then why do i need to fit in anyway? i don't need to be a femboy protogen, i want to bring unique ideas to the table. the fursonas i had (and still have) in mind were based off the "cool kids" from my former high school & i thought that would be weird because most furries came from geekier backgrounds and i'd seem like a threat or something idk
i might edit this later. my brain's mush and i got a whole lotta other things begging for my attention rn so. who knows
I have the same opinions as yours: both sides are valid, and depends on your perspectives and experiences in the fandom. Personally, I enjoy the furry fandom for the community, not for the material goods, but I can see the opinions from the other sides and they are equally valid.
the whole point of a fandom is... your a fan of a certain thing. If you see it as a popularity contest/want to become popular in said fandom then it kinda doesnt feel like your in the fandom for its reaso, you just want all the attention. Not about fandom anymore, its about being popula.r- the total opposite of what fandom is.
ok sure you may accidental your way into becoming popular and depends on how you deal with that popularity, its fine (i.e jacksepticeye vs the paul brothers).
if all you want to be in the furry fandom is popular, best to get rid of that mindset. a fandom, in this case, is to share your love, appreciation and joy of anthropromorphic animals. from sonic, to disney to mlp- whatever it may be. if your 'goal' is to be popular.... just kinda defeats the spirit of what a fandom is
your vids are such nice noise to listen to while im drawing. thank u beta
We see western styled furry fandom as a capitalistic game, since the richer you are the more /better art you can afford thus boosting your popularity etc, being furry is a luxury after all
BRO I MADE THAT ICON
LETS GOOOOO OPUS WE ARE FAMOUS
Honestly the fandom is so like materialistic these days it's sad. People at fwa literally were asking for follower counts before they would even talk to you. Absolute insanity
Some people are just observers, and simply enjoy the art from afar. They probably don't talk much.
I get what you're saying :')
I feel like I'm mostly there for the people who are like me, and very accepting, but I love the idea of getting to show off my fursona and show others my love for my furrified identity. So basically, the fun luxuries are a bonus that I enjoy, but only because I can show my sona to others, and what they mean to me ^^'
I feel like this idea boils down into the concept of consumerism; pretty much all fandoms exist because of it. And sure, you can spend money on a fursuit, on art, whatever, but you can also go to local meets, or meet up online, for free. Doing one or the other doesn't make you more or less of a furry. So I say it's not a matter of pay-to-win, especially since there are furries who own, like, three fursuits and rightfully lose their following because they're awful people.
I'd say that, though looking at the fandom as if it's pay to win is valid, it is not a helpful mindset. All this thinking does is set you up to feel alienated from others due to confirmation bias. Though this thought isn't out of no where. Growing up in a mostly capitalistic society some of us don't know how to interact without the means of items to channel our thoughts and personality. A few ways I'd suggest remedying these feelings are
1. Include others that may not be as well off as you. You may not be able to afford a lot, but there is always someone that can afford less
2. Create something youself! The best way to interact in the fandom is expression. Weather that be through a suit, merchendice, videos, knitting, sculpting or drawing. If you can't afford something you want. Try and make something.
3. Support smaller artists that may not be so expensive. This is a community above all, and communities thrive through trading goods, and supporting someone who is just starting out can strengthen yours and their bonds to the community we are trying to crate.
Though, money can make things easier in the moment, it won't give you the true connection everyone is striving for within the fandom, it's really getting out there and crating meaningful connections that will make you feel like you belong.
What I do, is pick who is want to hang out with. Some aren't so great and some are amazing in my eyes. But thats just it, I do and don't go for good looking art and fursuits. And even with the great ones, I actually start to make a bond with them and then slowly care less about their content and more about them as a person. Its a weird thing but I think its (not great but also not bad) sort of good. If that makes sense.
this proves my theory of if you pay more people will notice.
What I see from a person that's been in the fandom for 28 years.
You have ones that will eat a handful of sunflower seeds for food daily to go to a con / save for a fursuit. Putting their need to go to a con / get a fursuit before health.
There are ones that go to a con to drink as much as possible, hook up with as many people as possible.
Most will go to just hang out, stay up late and enjoy not having to work, or go to school.
"winning" really depends on the person, the one that said its pay to win is wishing they had cash to get a futsuit, goto cons and be popular. That's how they feel that's they are going to validate their fandom experience.
Me being an old fart in the fandom now, my win is, go to a con, chill out, run around in my not cute suit with my good friends, run my dealers den, and not worry about my day job.
The pay to win aspect of the furry Fandom is the cost of the materials. Fursuit $3000, custom plush $2500, art $200, travel $1000, food $300. Friendship and imagination free. Life and any Fandom has something in common, what's "winning"?
I value people for who they are.
Animals too.
I like whoever likes me.
I paid $1000 in gaming for my whole lifetime.
Amicus plushie was missing, someone stole it!!! 0:10
Reminds me of that dragon guy who you had to pay to have a conversation with-
I agree with you, Beta. There is a lot of overlap, whereas the Furry Fandom is inconsistent with just one lifestyle. There are multiple people whom enjoy the aspects of admiring the deep intricacies of humane friendship, whilst others want only to do with the materialistic precepts of the fandom. In essence, no matter how you look at the fandom. You will always observe something that can be traced back to hedonicity.
In all honesty life is pay to win the more money you have the longer you'll live the the more "friends" you'll have. Money doesn't buy happiness but life is set up where the less money you have the harder it is to achieve happiness.
not exactly. there is a low bar for where happiness can be achieved with a low level of money. like, so long as you have your basic needs/ bills covered, happiness can be reached. being below that level only makes it harder but not impossible.
having too much too fast can have the opposite effect because the standard for happiness raises with stress of managing it without going overboard. if that makes sense.
This is going to slap
I wish a furry youtuber would talk about all the cool things you can commission from artists for your fursonas. Like, I'm not just talking about art, I mean e v e r y t h i n g
Like a list of all the things you can commission and some great creators for each. Like art (of course), badges, fursuits, plushies, fursonafy photos, vr chat models, face masks, pins, etc. Like, as somebody who loves to buy things for my fursona and give them lots of love, that'd be such a cool video :')
Yo Opus!!! He’s my friend!! I wasn’t expecting to see ma friend in one of Beta’s videos sheesh!! :D
I'm actually going to a fur meet at end of month. Bbq!!!
Lmao thats a funny take imo.
I think of it as a social mmorpg with a huge market in aesthetic microtransactions.
the problem with perspective is.... many people are right in a different way. You can say you need money, you can sayy you need connections, you can say you need logic but lets be real, at some distances, human perspective dont make sense anymore. You can think about the heat death of the universe or how the human perspective arises from nothing and at the same time you can say its all about money. You are technically correct but if thats the problem, make your niche community that isnt about money. A community is just a space people build, not a static book but if you see it that way, you will always see the people that validate your opinion
Interesting take, I'm curious to see what it means and how it plays into the fandom.
Maybe it's more like pay to play which is just like how typical hobbies are, you pay with money and time and you get to play with the hobby.
Well, life itself Is pay to win.
I watched this vid will I was typing an English essay at BLFC ha I see both sides and I agree with both love both Opus and you Beta
its clearly Pay to Progress. ;D
or its only cosmetic, it doesn't give you a competitive advantage (it does give an advantage when attention is the win factor)
(the copium response people tell themselves about a game they play.)
the thing for fursuit or other "things" are more personal id than external. like. wanted those things long before knowing furries exist. and more interested in making those than just having.
the thing with people though, it doesnt matter what you "have" its the personality/ the ease of relatable interests. so basically inter personal relations. communication. the exchange of thoughts in a non toxic manner. its hard to connect without communication.
money helps you in the fandom with a lot of things but you don't need it for everything within the fandom like meeting new people or maybe even a partner
Hm I wonder how this is gonna turn out cause I have no sense in p2w only wait.. it’s a lot
Commodity fetishism is not valuing commodities more than relationships among people. It's referring to the idea that, in the said forces of production we live in, the given essential value to a certain commodity and the relationship between these commodities is how the force of production expresses itself. This is opposed to the view that the force of production expresses itself through the relationships between people involved in the creation of value (i.e. employee and employer).
Thankyou for confirming this
Material fetishisum makes me sad, I started watching you a while back before you had your suit, your humor and speach patterns reminded me of my cousin, which at the time I found absolutely hilarious because he hated furries. I think that they might mean pay to win to become popular, in which case I’d say probably.
Also I literally just joined the fandom cause I wanted to dress in a fuzzy animal costume, I’m not really here for much else lmao. So my win is kinda pay. But I agree that others can get their win without it and that whether not the fandom is pay to win depends upon what you want out of it.
That display name tho lmao
Furry fandom is thiccness to win
I want a fursuit so baaaadddd but It's so freaking expensive and I'm broke :(:(:(:((:(:(((((((((
Nah your not wasting peoples time. Lol Honestly I put your videos on in the background while I am working out at the gym😉
Im too broke to win so i learn art for free, and im currently trying to learn 3d modeling
Also didn't know there was the ability or chance to win lol
I find it odd, you sound like you mock capitalism, despite enjoying all that art and decorations back there, that kinda exist because capitalism. I mean sure you can say there problems with the system, but it still gave us more than any other system ever done.
And as for, is being a furry pay to win? Well... Is food pay to win? Or is living in general pay to win? I mean at this point you could just say existing is pay to win. But I don't think you really have to buy anything to enjoy the fandom . So many art sites with all kinds of furry content, all for the price of an internet connection. One should not be jealous and spiteful to those that are able to get a fur suit. Just do the things under your own financial means. That don't make you any less of a fan.
This is a serious topic…. But every time he said Material my brain went Material Gurrrrrlllll
To credit though, paying for things in the furry fandom, especially things like conventions, fursuits, and furry badges, do feel kind of like a harry potter fan buying hogwarts robes and going to universal studios. Having a fursona gives you a character to represent as, and buying a fursuit allows you to cosplay (like the hogwarts robes) as a character.
Paaying money, a lot of the times for a lot of people, can be like experiencing a different world with different people (who are usually much friendlier and accepting than most, as one of the fandom's highlights), and I see the liking of purchasing things, which is why I feel like I lean towards the monetary side.
But for me there's no purpose if you can't have friends to talk to within the furry fandom, or friends who have fursonas, since you can make your fursona and their fursona friends as well, expanding worlds, people to go to cons with, people to talk to or roleplay with in the furry fandom, etc etc. I think the furry fandom needs both sides, and only having one would be a bit unbalanced. It'd feel lonely if there was no sense of community, but the community would struggle to meet others within it if there were no places to go for furries, or ways to express yourself.
Unfortunately, *moral* *standards* are as most things go a rare community when to people and to an exception furrys.
It all fun and games until total disregard for people (no matter of they are furry or not) blames it something or someone else for the *gon* violence wrath then fix the problem.
This sounds true because you need to buy fursuits
My terms of understand of the title of this vidro would be
Commissioning someone if i wasn't wrong
Define "winning". Also, what if "winning" isn't your goal?
It is pay to win for shallow people. And there is no shortage of shallow people in the fandom.
I’ve been bullied by furrys more than in all my years of school all over the fact I make my fursuits
I refuse to stop wasting my time watching these videos, wasting time is fun and I will do it.
It's... saddening.
Money sure helps with most hobbies. Doesn't mean you can't enjoy it without spending a lot tho.
Well, this is pretty a nice argument, i think that somewhat or in some way, furries can be pay2win (like in certain games), because people can buy fursuits, commissions like art or vtuber avatars (or all sorts of avatar ways), go to furry conventions where they are and stuff, people like me that can't buy a thing (they can't even partecipate furry events iRL, because are far af, while others can go ._.) so, yea, if there was a Robin Hood, for sure i can be happy too^^ (though idk if i'm right, i just tell facts^^")
Pay to win?
Win WHAT?
11:55 be continued at a later date
I am furry for the friendships and relationships
*This is a certified bruh moment*
yeah it is imo
Good video Beta
You just say it isn't cuz you have everything that most ppl don't have. I think it is and its not fair
They are our of line but they are sorta right in some aspects.
Sad that Opus (person in the thumbnail) turned out to support groomers
she doesn't
Originally I felt: how is it possible to 'pay to win' as a furry? You don't have to pay for a fursuit or attend cons to be part of the fandom. VRChat almost everyday is a 'FurCon'; you use your avatar as a fursuit. So no I don't feel it's 'pay to win'. It's about appreciating the person behind the avatar instead of the avatar itself.
Just like IRL, to appreciate the person behind the fursuit.
Tbh life is kinda p2w
Life in general is pay to win.
Hmmm it's pay to pay
You’re going to Brazil
Hello :3
Hi
Beta, can we have more adastra
these frequent cuts are really disorientating kek i genuinely cant watch without gettin somewhat disoriented
Saying the fandom is pay to win seems like a pessimistic pov.
To me, i might just be dumb.
I came into the fandom wanting to make friends. It's been two years and I still don't have friends because people are scary and I'm a coward. But no one will reach out to me because I'm relatively unknown.
bro
life is pay to win
I agree
It's not pay to win it's gay to win
You don't have a fursuit? You're not a furry 👍✨
Napoli juve aperol!
yes you in youtube again yay owo bulgy wulgy kowo
The friendships that keep you in the fandom...do you think those people would've given you a second look if you weren't a recognisable UA-camr with a fursuit? People like you really don't have the perspective to comment on the flaws of the fandom. You guys are the LEAST exposed to them