Sourdough slap-and-fold: sorry, you're doing it wrong
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- Опубліковано 4 чер 2023
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Are you missing this key step to build awesome strength in your sourdough (for a better rise!) when you do the slap and fold technique?
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I must admit, the slap and fold is my favourite part of making sourdough. I still have a ways to go on my sourdough journey and this advice is gratefully welcomed 😊
It's a great stress reliever, isn't it? 😜 So glad the video is helpful to you! Thanks for your support, Samantha!
Thanks for the tip of stretching the dough to its full potential before the "fold." Before, i would slap and fold for hours without developing any gluten strength. With my most recent loaf, i was able to get a window pane in less than 5 minutes. Cheers!
I want to clarify that I'm not saying the slap and fold is the only way - or even the best way - to build gluten strength. Classic stretch and folds, coil folds, these are all great methods too. You have to find the one that works best for you 🙌
Thank you ! you just helped me so much !
I just discovered this method and tried it today. Just love it. The dough is so beautiful resting in its bowl. Looking forward to taste it 🥰
I definately appreciate your teaching . thank you !
wonderfully explained ! thank you !
She merely say to switch from Stretch & Fold , instead of Slap & Fold...to which I think makes a big difference. Thankyou so much. I will focus on stretching the dough from now on.
Great explaination! Looking forward to trying the method you demonstrated.
Love the video. Thank you for teaching me.
You are so welcome!
I never heard of this technique before, I will try it. Great video!
Thank you so much for this important tip.I’m practicing myself to get it right,so I will try it your way. Thank you
I really appreciate this tip! I was doing it wrong! I was not stretching it like you said. I did not find your title offensive at all. Thank you!
I'm so glad to help! Thanks for watching!
This was a great video. I’m just a beginner and I have had several successful loaves. But I know my technique of slapping fold is not very good. I like your technique that you call stretch and fold. One thing you said was the slap on the table is to stick it to the table. That’s very important, I was always trying to get but the table needs to hold it as you stretch it toward you and I think this really answered a lot of questions. Thank you very very much.
Love your videos. Thanks. 😊
Awesome! Thank you for the information.
You're so very welcome!
Hello! Awesome technique! How many times should web do this? Is this a one time process or should i do it two, three times? Thank you! ❤️
so glad you brought this up because I watched so many people do it online and then came to your conclusion just naturally. It goes to show that at some point you need to let your intuition take over, which comes from making lots and lots of loaves haha
Yes, well done! Trust your hands, trust your own observations. Keeping a bread journal is also useful.
She is doing stretch and fold, not slap and fold. But as bakers we all choose what suites us best. :)
Awesome short video!
Great explanation
Glad it was helpful!
We don’t kink shame here. As long as the bun got back, hun. Slap and fold as you like 😂😂
I make Einkorn sourdough and I never slapped or folded, I just mix it with a spoon, leave it an hour, stretch it a bit to shape it and stick it in a tin, leave it until it starts to get less springy when poking with finger, slit the top with a knife and cook it... works fine...
The technique looks good. Richard Bertinet is the gold standard for slap and fold and i learnt from that and have done 85% hydration doughs for pizza (a bit of stretch and fold before slap and fold).
It doesn't look like the original technique thought. One of the main points on Bertinet's guide was never leave your hands from the dough. Am not saying i managed just that the demonstrated technique does not look like the creator's slap and fold. As long as it works i guess is fine
@@p2bas1another point he makes is to always keep the top on top unlike here where she says to flip the dough over.
But then he also says rotating the dough is "lazy" which is a technique Thomas Teffri Chambelland teaches and he's also a renowned baker so who knows lol
Switch between right and left for your muscles and posture body
Fold is the way to go 😊
"sorry, you're doing it wrong" I'm sorry but you have absolutely no idea how I'm doing it.
Great and thorough explanation. Thank you! At what hydration percentage is slap and fold suggested? Above 80%? 85%? 90%?
It all depends on your comfort level for handling wet doughs. But I've used it with hydration as low as 75%.
Yeay. I have thought this all along. It is a stretch and fold. I have seen different names for techniques pop up but it essentially is just that. I say do what works for you. If you get the right results, then that is all that matters.
Richard Bertinet demonstrated this method perfectly 10 yrs ago on youtube. Few words, all technique.
He showed the method while working on sticky dough. Which is the sort of dough you will work with when making danishes.
It's imperative to learn this technique and seeing it shown by an expert takes the despair out of working those doughs the first time.
Go watch him.
And Bertinet shows that you should not turn the dough a quarter each time!
I knew nothing about this. I never made bread, but I do like eating fresh, hot or warm bread. Like fresh yeast rolls at Ryan's. Then sour dough is great for hamburgers!
Grazie
prego
I grap it in the center when doing my slap and folds. I dont know that grabbing from the end is propper slap and fold method.
I'm at a point where I don't really do any kneading or slap n folding any more. Just give the dough some time to develop the gluten by itself. Also prevents extra oxidation of the dough
Thankyou..
Good video, I learned something here... and please ignore those annoying comments.
Oh my gosh I have never heard of the slap and fold 😯
thanks for this
How do I get it to stop sticking to literally everything!?!?! And how many time to I stretch and fold and can I over do it?
Hey there! I seem to be running into the same problem each time. My dough gets nice and tight after a few folds, then it splits and turns goopy after 3-6 minutes! I have tried to change so many variables but the same thing happens each time
Is this method doable for a hydration as high as 75%?
Depends on what type of flour. I find that with 12 or 13% protein 75% hydration is perfect. Slap and fold is suitable for that hydration.
I do slap and fold for years and I found that if you do a slap and fold for 3 minutes, then cover the dough with an upside down bowl and let it rest for 3 minutes, it gets its strength faster without constantly doing the slap and fold. I always do stretch the dough while doing the slap and fold too.
Is there a mechanical alternative to slap-and-fold? I have a bad wrist.
Yes, there are absolutely alternatives. If you don't have a spiral mixer, I recommend sticking with stretch and folds or "coil folds" right in the bowl.
My dough seems to become stickier. Even after 6-10 mins of slap and fold! It seems tight be then starts ripping and gets progressively stickier. What am I doing wrong?
Slap and fold has most significantly changed my pizza game. When I learned to make sourdough no one emphasized the importance of slap and flap focusing rather on stretch and fold and my gluten development remained poor.
I'm so glad the slap and fold is working for you, Nancy!
I like to use slap-and-fold to make pizza dough. It's so much fun.
How long do you typically need to perform this method?
It really depends on the speed of your slap and fold. I look for the visual clues I mention in the video -- a smooth surface (sign that gluten bonds are no longer weak and tearing) and do a window pane test.
The thing is, slap, when strong enough, actually stretches the dough with centrifugal force.
Boy, you really look healthy!
I must have taken a wrong turn somewhere.
Is the stretch and fold done after the 1 or 2 hour autolyse or later?
Most tutorials I've seen start their stretch and folds 1 hour or so after autolyse. They then do a series of stretch and folds, usually every 30 minutes, four times. So the stretch and folds take about 2 hours.
@@mygirldarby Thanks, I've seen that too. But here I was wondering because this slap and fold makes the dough so much more worked than the stretch and fold which leaves the dough more tight imo.
Why incorporate air? Isn't there CO2 from the yeast and later on steam during baking?
Oxygen temporarily strengthens the gluten bonds, this is great for a quickly risen dough but accelerates the deterioration of gluten in a longer-risen dough such as sourdough.
With oxygen present, yeast respires aerobically which leads to faster gas production. Again this is great for quickly risen bread, however not so if you want yeast and lactic acid bacteria to ferment and develop flavour alongside CO2, which you typically do in sourdough bread.
So yes, you are correct to question…
I will, however, commend her in not fully developing gluten at this stage as it will continue to develop during bulk fermentation. She also comments very well on how the dough behaves during kneading or “slap and folds”.
With my sour dough i find that when i let the dough rest for several hours in the fridge or even on the counter, the surface of the dough seems to break along the top and the tightness of the dough is lost. What am i doing wrong? I thought i was over working it, but you work your dough more than me.
Do you mean during the proofing stage? After the shape?
@@TrueFoodTV Yes. Am i making it too tight?
Making sauerkraut and kimchi are fairly easy too.
Hi, great shows and information. Have you tried an Instant Pot? Works well. Dark green leafy vegetables, beans, rice, legumes, yogurt etc. Also, the Clearly Filtered water filter pitcher works well. Sprouted organic grain flour is interesting. Grind in your mill. Thank you all for all you do.
The goal of any kneading is building gluten strength. **NO** kneading method will "incorporate air" into the dough. That what the yeast is there for.
*Great Info. Cheers!!!!* 😃👍
Have you ever considered adding soluble oat fiber to bread to make it healthier? Even psilyum husks put in fast blender isn't gritty or such when blended in water real good. Add fiber to the bread or even pasta should get some more time on earth. I ask as you're the cook. Then with salted olive oil you did earlier would go with fresh bread.
Strangely I don't do slap and folds, but instead coil folds and my loaves look exactly the same 😁. My loaves are 80% hydration. I would post a pic if I could. Maybe the title is a bit precarious. Slap and folds are not necessarily necessary as long as gluten formation is formed properly.
That's what she said.
I do not miss this step. For those who don’t want to watch - it’s to stretch after the slap
I thought the technique was called "stretch and fold." I didn't know some people called it "slap and fold." That would be misleading! The stretching and the folding are both equally important, inlike slapping.
Why even slap it? Just place it on the counter, pull, fold and repeat.
Do not turn 90 degrees after flipped over. Just flip and stretch sidewise.
Wyh should you incorperate air as the yeastpart does it's work also. Nonsens!
Breadman
I thought ‘stretch and fold’ sounded vaguely lewd. I was naive.
bona fide
So it’s slap-stretch-and-fold
Exactly...or Slap-stick-stretch and fold. If the originator of this method had named it correctly there would be less confusion.
Bologna!!!!!!!!
Cold Fermentation eliminates the need to do this.
interesting method but not for me. I'll continue with my pull/stretch and fold and turn method.
I cam across your video by accident.
This is not a rude post, I mean no offense. Just facts.
_You_ are doing Richard Bertinet's slap and fold incorrectly according to Bertinet who developed the method.
You _are_ doing stretch and fold and _not_ slap and fold.
Your on dangerous ground when you say "Your getting it wrong" in bread baking. There are so many variants of kneading. Each home baker will have their preference. Having tried all of them over many years I settled on three depending on the dough I'm trying to develop and the slap and fold, being one I use is a slight variant on Richard Bertinet's where I rotate the dough ninety degrees after each slap and do not do the side pulling motion. My dough develops faster that way, which means less work. Am I wrong? No. Are you wrong? No.
The slap is really important. When gluten first forms it develops weak gluten to gluten bonds. ANY, kneading breaks these bonds allowing the strong Sulphur to Sulphur gluten bonds to form. The slap makes this happen faster.
Here's and experiment for you. Use your stretch and fold techniques, for that is what you are actually using, but at the end slam the dough onto the worktop really hard three or four times. Now as the dough develops and you do intervelled folds you should see a real difference in the dough.
Incorporating air is an old myth. The yeast is in anaerobic mode and does not need oxygen and trying to incorporate air might increase gluten oxidisation and reduce the bread's final flavour. This was one Prof. Raymond Calvel's central theme's in his famous book 'The Taste of Bread'. Though he was mainly talking about machine mixing. Fortunately for us research shows that the amount of hair incorporated using any hand kneading technique is small and has no effect on the dough.
Best to you, be well.
P.S. Check out "The Bertinet Method: Slap & fold kneading technique" with Richard Bertinet
this is the lazy version of the Bertinet method.
i promise you're not incorporating air. sorry. not only that this whole nonsense of folding and what i consider to be overworking the dough which is proven when it starts to tear. example here 1:22, after this fold you have a smooth surface. after the following fold you've torn the dough and now you've broken the gluten strands that you've formed.
you don't need to do any of this. enough gluten can be created just with time.
mix your dough. let it rest for 15 minutes, do those folds gently so you don't tear your dough. once you tear it, you've broken the dough. you can prove this to yourself when forming a loaf, or after portioning. make a nice smooth ball, then keep making the ball tighter and tighter until you've broken the surface. Now try and make that ball of dough a nice smooth, cohesive piece of dough again without adding flour. It's almost impossible, and I would say impossible, because you've already pulled the gluten past it's point of no return and now it needs to rest before you can incorporate it and make it homogenous again.
if you think i'm full of it, feel free to look at my channel i have two videos that i streamed live showing my whole process.
I never suggest that people should do slap-and-fold over any other method for building strength. Stretch and folds, coil folds, these methods work just as well. However, this is for people who want to try slap and fold (which can be a quicker way to get to the end result). The "breaking of gluten" strands you mention is occurring because strength hasn't been built yet, which is a goal of the entire process as you work the dough.
@@TrueFoodTV if you're tearing the gluten strands at any point of the development you are literally going against your goal
telling people that they are doing it wrong is every bit as clickbait-ish as those titles that claim that some one is keeping things secret from us.
welcome to UA-cam! wish we didn't have to do things like this but there are only so many ways to cut through the noise.
@@TrueFoodTV I like your content and your channel you don't need to cut through anything just say it clearly. don't get trapped by marketing people into misrepresenting yourself.
You do not need to slap and fold at all . This ancient method was developed by pizza makers to deal with their high gluten flour . It was done in order to stretched the pizza better , more evenly by hand . The real gluten strength improvement method is a 4 fold method to the dough after mixing with low gluten flour or high hydration . No need to slap the dough at all , just a simple fold and overlap of all 4 sides of the dough . It’s provided ( depending on. Temperature and bread ingredients) between 30 min and 2 hours for the first time and another hour or two for the second time .
When it comes to danish dough or puff pastry dough you actually want the dough underdeveloped because the sheeter is finishing the kneading process.
Regarding your last point. How many home bakers are going to have a sheeter. As for your 4 fold method (as you described) you are allowing time to develop the gluten. Al methods work. It is is just a matter of what fits in with your schedule. The end product is the decider in what is a successful method.
You are doing a 90 deg turn at each step which is not what Richard BERTINET recommends. Doing your way you miss to stretch the dough on the side just after slapping it which is one of the most important part. You do not keep the dough in your hand at all times while this is what Richard does. So for me you are doing it wrong as well.
You don't need to incorporate air - the CO2 in the bread is doing this.
“Doing it wrong” is insulting all the bakers that do it differently. There are many ways to make sourdough bread, as attested by the many bakers that produce beautiful loves using a different method.
Wait..what...i do a fold..no slap...this i gotta watch.
Funny that people on UA-cam claim that everyone else is doing it wrong...... It's a no brainer that you should stretch the dough...... I'm not doing it wrong...... Å🙄👎
Literally everyone is trying to teach everyone else how to make artisan bread but why is no one doing it the old fashion way to be eaten rather than looked it? Just search YT on sourdough bread and see what people are taking about. No one even kneads bread any more so that it has a fine grumb.
😂😂😂 pro? 😂😂😂
Lovely people, there were no bread scientists 5000 years ago.
Click bait
sorry, its not needed
First!!!!
I'm not gonna watch the video, I just wanted to say that I despise that strategy of titling your videos accusing the audience of ignorance ("you're doing it wrong" and so on). Evidently, it works because many youtubers do it but I think it's insulting regardless
That and the fact she never answers any legit questions. It’s like her attitude is I do I better than you do and you’ll never do it as well as I do because I simply will ignore you. Pfffft!
Do you have a question that I can answer for you?
I’ve had many. I never asked them because I’ve watched how you ignore questions from others.
I agree wholeheartedly. I almost always block channels that do that.
@@TrueFoodTVYou didn't answer his question but you certainly proved his point.
Internet. Intranet is within an organization. Love your videos!
Thank you so much!
Everyone's an expert 🤦