Does this apply to COVID vax info? Does this apply to Alex jones, Nick Fuentes, Stefan molineax who were all deplatformed, debarked and put on no-fly lists in some cases just for speech? You and the holy poster hypocrites agreed by way of silence
Fox propaganda network tries to tell them what their opinion is. They do the “research” for them. Like “Don’t listen to Taylor Swift or other celebrities… unless it’s Ted Nugent”
I’m loving the discourse on this channel. I’m a Christian, and this reasoning is exactly what is needed. Also, the history lessons of other videos are fascinating.
Jesus was loved by his followers , and hated by many simply because he told us the truth. As a Christian I know Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior. I do not judge anyone that's his task, but I will never ever support sin of any kind or rationalize it .
@@ezbody The lack of self-awareness in a statement like this is amazing. Sexual liberation, feminism, and bodily autonomy are dogmas as much as anything that Christians purport. A Christian could just as easily say that those dogmas are being elevated over the Love of defenseless humans, i.e. the unborn.
Outstanding content. I think Reiner’s message is similar to Ghandi’s opinion. “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” He’s not wrong, but the observation is not complete because of all the believers who do practice “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. The value of this exchange is both sides learning from one another.
I know more non-Christians who actually live the Golden Rule in their every day lives than I do Christians who do. If anything, Christians usually use God as an excuse to treat people like crap.
@@bkucenski That's true. If someone leaves Jesus, they weren't really his to begin with. That said; I (HYPOCRITICALLY) encourage every servant of Christ to find & stay in fellowship ASAP. There are a good reasons God commands that we are to be in fellowship with each other.
I left the Church AND I left Jesus -- and your attempt to claim that "if someone leaves Jesus, they weren't really his to begin with" is a fallacy. I was a _fanatical_ believer in Christ for seven years of my life: I devoted my entire existence to Jesus. I accepted him as my Lord and Savior, prayed to him every day, carried my bible around with me everywhere I went, attended church several times a week, hung around with only Christian friends, listened to only Christian music, "witnessed" to people, organized my entire existence around Jesus Christ, and believed with all my heart that everything in the bible was true. And for you -- and plenty of other Christians like you -- to sit there and say "you weren't really a Christian", my response would be: then WTF _is_ a Christian? If I wasn't one, nobody is. I was an absolute believer in Jesus, 100%. The fact that I eventually came out of that and departed the faith doesn't mean I wasn't a believer to begin with: that's a fallacy. It's called the "No True Scotsman" fallacy, where you move the goalposts after the fact to say "Oh, then they weren't really a true Christian in the first place." Bullshit! I believed in Jesus with all my heart. I just _stopped_ believing, that's all. As for why I stopped believing: because I could no longer sweep the idea of *hell* under the rug. I couldn't rationalize it anymore. You simply cannot reconcile the idea of a "loving God" with the existence of a hell of everlasting torment and pain: those are mutually exclusive concepts, and when I finally stopped being able to do the mental gymnastics of accepting those mutually exclusive concepts -- in other words, when I started to let *logic* back into my thinking -- the doctrine of hell began to unravel...followed eventually by the rest of the whole illogical religion. I saw, one after another, the gaping holes in biblical doctrine, and the whole irrational edifice collapsed like the house of cards it always was. Took me years to finally deprogram myself -- Christian ideas lingered in my mind for a long time -- but I eventually eradicated almost every trace of my Christian faith. I was 100% a believer, and now I'm 100% _not_ a believer -- and there are millions of others like me. And you can't sweep us conveniently under the rug by trying to claim that we were "never believers in the first place", because that's simply not true.
My observation is that the vast majority of pro-lifers are not extreme "in all circumstances" people. I think it is the same for pro-choicers. If we could just stay back from the edges of extreme, I think we would find that there is not that much ground to cover to get to a middle ground. But then, I am an optimist.
I have gotten into discussions lately with people on the pro-choice side, and most of them have the idea of sentience. So around 20-24 weeks we see the neurons in the brain firing that are the ones related to sentience and experience when studied in the human mind. They start around 20-24 weeks. So even "pro-choice all 9 months" folks I talk to make the point there are ways to end the pregnancy for the woman while keeping the child viable. Now, the farther you go of course the higher likelihood of the child being alive, and we need to do more the make that a solution, but I can see that as an argument and think if THATS how it was discussed I can see it I can get it. The gender affirming care for kids I have seen the discussion as the care that is irreversible is done rarely if ever on anyone under 17 because the anatomy just isn't there. Puberty blockers are used on kids who are not trans so they are tested and safe, hormone replacement during teen years if monitored by a doctor can be reversed before adulthood if necessary. So, before puberty gender affirming care is a hair cut, different clothes, and Alexa being called Alex. Personally, if it means a kid grows up at all (which studies find that when they are accepted by parents/friends/their community rates of depression and thoughts of suicide PLUMMET in transgender youth) then fine. I don't know how god will feel about them when they pass, but I am not without sin so I will not judge.
@dalewilliams4359. It’s not reasonableness vs. fanaticism. That’s an exceedingly inhospitable way to think of it. If you yourself believed that abortion was murder, you would become an “in all circumstances” extremist. This is a disagreement that we are having, a reasonable disagreement. I think you’re terribly wrong…but only because the infant’s right to life should take priority over the mother’s issues of bodily autonomy and legitimate self-interest.
I disagree. The pro-lifers may not be aware of it, but their assumptions must include the idea that women are not people. Once they've successfully incorporated that idea, it's easy enough to babble about unicorns or magical fetus or baby. All that is necessary is to diminish the woman as a human and suddenly, anything is possible and well, does it really matter if she suffers or dies? she's worthless. That is the base assumption that the pro-lifer MUST have and they'll deny it. They don't want to admit this horrific inhumanity. they want to be viewed as nice and good. Savita Halapanavar is dead. Kate Cox had to flee Texas. And the fact is that the pro-lifers have committed a lot of long distance murder. part 2 coming in replay
part 2 How? Look up maternal mortality rates. Logically speaking, women should have a predictable risk of harm from a pregnancy. but we see that the conservative pro-life states have a jump in that number. That's the murder rate. This is how pro-lifers murder human beings and get to pretend they are good people. And when you factor race into this, it's clear that we have a racial motive as well. Black babies aren't desired. Black women aren't people. All this group wants is white babies. That's why the images are of white babies mostly. It's white replacement theory. part 3 next
part 3. And Christianity is an anti-sex religion. It's very neurotic. Have you ever heard a pro-lifer say "well, you should have kept your knees shut"? Think of what that logically implies. that pregnancy is a punishment. That pregnancy is a sign of sinfulness. Again, this group does not like women. (and women have internalized this dangerous idea. Especially white women because well.. they want power and they are willing to sacrifice everybody to gain that power. They're too close to white male power to be trusted.) *oh.. and standard not all white people, not all white women, not all white men. Think of why they oppose gay marriage? It's because they can't tell if this group has had sex and show the signs of their "sin". The pro-lifers are not to be trusted because they are not sincere people. They just use words. But the end result is that women are dead because pro-lifers believe in "animal sacrifice" of women. That's their truth. If they actually saw women as people, they'd never be able to push their will on women's bodies. That's what you do to your pet or your property..you know.. like branding a cow or declawing your cat. This is how they view women because this is their policy positions. They are not good faith and they are not to be trusted. Evil. That's what they really are.
So the concept Phil is looking for is called "mutuality". Its the idea you would be ok with the standards you apply on another person also being applied to you. So like with sexuality and gemder: are you ok with someone deciding what type of clothes you should wear? Can "real men" wear pink? Are floral prints allowed? Are woman allowed to wear pants? The thing with creating rules for someones gender expression, is you also have to be ok with having someone rule on your gender expression. The same with sexulity: are you allowed to have adult toys? Is what happens in the bedroom just your business or can the community regulate it. We seem to have agreed that when it comes to sexuality its best for folks to have "a right to privacy". That is in the US we dont control what happens in the bedroom. This type of mutually: realizing that certain areas of life should be excluded from regulation: is the basis of rights. Like why are you allowed to worship how you want? If the US randomly became controlled by Episcopalians, couldnt they say "we believe the Episcopal church is the one true church. From now on everyone must be Episcopalian"? We realize that certain things like sexuality, freedom of conscience, freedom or association, right to a fair trial, access to healthcare, education, housing, food and water. Are areas of life that are shouldnt be touched by a religious worldview, because they are so fundamental to a person as a human being, it would be unconscionable to accept being under the rule of another persons idea of what they should be. You see this in countries where Christianity is a minority. Christians when they are oppressed have the clearity of mind to advocate for freedom of religion. When subject to one-child policies, advocate for the freedom to have the family you think you should have. The problem of Christian nationalism: it wants to have its human rights, but deny them to others too. Like "oof, you mean we must learn how to live with lgbtq folks, non-believers, feminist, and immigrants? Those things dont help us. Those actually help the folks we are against." Which is interesting, because Jesus taught love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, when asked to go one mile go two, pick up your cross and follow me. Who ever tries to save their life will loose it, whoever looses their life will gain everlasting life. I think its hard to imagine a Jesus who is down with the Christian nationalist movement.
@@SongSwanJames' Jesus tales were for his brother who he knew was not divine and had the same parents as himself. He was not a Christ for Jews but, as Rob Reiner said, his teachings supersede sky fairies and are basic for humanity. You could follow Jesus as Jesus, but not Christ, and you had to circumcise yourself...or have a Rabbi do it.
A lot of Romans were happy to follow the Jewish Jesus, but that circumcision thing was an impediment. I think they needed to be assured it didn't cost them anything for the procedure, Rabbis worked for tips.
I find it hard to believe that Rob Reiner really means what he said about “if you are voting your beliefs, you are not forcing.” In 2008, the people of California voted in favor of proposition 8, which defined marriage as between a man and a woman. The people voted, and it passed. However, Rob and Michele Reiner didn’t like that, so they set up the American Foundation for Equal Rights to file lawsuits to overturn proposition 8. Sounds like The Reiners were forcing their beliefs on the people of California.
Rob Reiner is one of my favorite directors- he made some of my favorite movies- in fact those 4 posters behind him- Stand By Me, A Few Good Men, The Princess Bride, and The American President- switch the last 2 and those are my Top 4 favorite movies of his. I know Skye loves Stand By Me, so I'm surprised to not see him in this discussion. I thought he'd want to talk with the director of one of his favorite movies. I would have never thought that this atheist director would be on a podcast with the creator of VeggieTales, but wow- this is my dream crossover- LOL! I didn't agree with everything Rob said, but the discussion was very interesting. I would love to see God and Country. :) EDIT: Skye is in the movie- I thought he'd be in this video.
The thing about "Christian" nationalism is that in four Gospels Christ never even remotely suggests that His disciples should have dominion over anyone, or that non-believers should be coerced into living according to "biblical" standards. What He DOES say is "My Kingdom is NOT of this world". And of course He says the second part of The Greatest Commandment is to "love your neighbor as yourself", but if you force your neighbor to live according to your own personal beliefs, that isn't loving your neighbor.....that's despising them. Finally, I just have to say, I have always just adored Rob Reiner, and can't wait to see this film.
So it’s also wrong that the state forces us to live so-called progressive Christian values by handing out welfare, universal healthcare and the refugee resettlement program, correct?
I partially agree as a Lutheran who reads the bible often. I don’t fully agree with your statement because Jesus does say in Matthew 28:18-20 NRSV that “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go there for and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, and of the son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the days”. However, Christian nationalism does not always treat those who aren’t Christian as humans who need Christs love. Some put the Nation over God and bastardized the faith with hate for those who are different.
@Sebman1113 You must firstly believe that passage, written generations after Jesus' death by someone who never met him, and never claimed to meet him, is accurate. Then you must believe it is divinely inspired to be true. Then you must believe you are interpreting it correctly. I wonder, when it says "teaching them to obey" do you read this as meaning "forcing them, against their will, to obey"? And if not then imposing "Christian" values here on others would be against Jesus' teachings, would it not? And society, overwhelmingly, is against Christians forcing their values on others, especially with regard to abortion (which, by the way, Jesus never specifically addressed). Yes?
@@Sebman1113 Well, but that's just it. All authority has been given to CHRIST, not Humans, and He in no way suggests that His disciples should "control" or have authority over others. You don't force someone to become a disciple. This is the same reason that we are forbidden to judge others....Christ has been given ALL judgment (John 5:22)....plus the fact that Christ tells us we can judge others ONLY if we ourselves are without sin. And the #1 favourite thing of the "Christian" nationalist is judging others based on their own myopic take on scripture.
You make a good point. If you read the (quite short) Wikipedia entry on Dominion Theology you will find yourself quite shocked at the tenets of this ideology that has come to dominate US fundamentalist evangelical churches. I’m now in my 60’s and I can remember as a teenager growing up in a very conservative Baptist world (the late Jerry Falwell Snr was an occasional preacher in our church so you get the flavor) and I can distinct remember when one of the leading elders started teaching a Bible study course in Dominion Theology and how Christians ‘must’ in this day and age seek to take over the levers of (secular) power. That elder himself was a wealthy man and involved in right wing politics. If he were alive today I’m sure he would be the local Republican Party chairperson.
The problem is that conservative christian politicians often approach politics as rulers and not representatives. Once elected they belief they've been empowered to dictate their own beliefs on the people. That means even when it would be representative of their constituents to support abortion rights they will reject it, vote their own opinion, and then try to refocus those constituents on the latest culture war talking points to remain in power.
Im an evangelical born again, but Ive always understood that if a Muslim cant make me live under Sharia law, I cant tell a 15 year old rape victim that you cant get an abortion. We all agreed to be separate but equal, and this is apart of that
Can you tell someone by way of governmental enforcement that they cannot enslave another human being? If so, why? Can you tell someone by way of governmental enforcement that they cannot kill an innocent human being? If so, why?
Your comment reads: "I can't tell a 15yo rape victim she cant get an abtn" Which begs the (sincere, hopefully gentle, well-received) question: Can you tell her that GOD knits all babies in their mothers womb & that GOD says to murder ANY human baby is a sin? Can you plead with her to not sin against our 3rce Holy God? Can you assure her that God is bigger than all the excruciating trauma she's bn thru & will ever know? not only CAN he, but WANTS TO heal her thru it all (& any/all else she may encounter in this wicked world?) That God can &WANTS to take what is meant to DESTROY us & turn it into amazing blessings-all glory to HIM? She's not expected to handle any of that. Infact, shes COMMANDED not to. Though God doesn't FORCE us, he says that's for HIM to handle.Infact, its out of OBEDIENCE that we fully trust him with ALL our sorrows & difficulties & lean not on our own understanding. Can you tell her that God wants comfort her & guide her to blessing ideal adoptive parents? (Fun fact: I learned "God is bigger!" from VeggieTales eps I watched with my grandchildren😉). Your comment also reads: "We all agreed to be separate but equal & this is a part of that" When you became born again, did you promise to serve Jesus above all, incldg mankind & man's law when the two are at odds? Bc that's a part of it. Infact, it's EVERYTHING. Idk if it helps you to hear this, but I can assure you; its perfectly okay to not agree with & not go along with every belief of the hosts/pundits. As a long-time, consistent viewer, I can assure you: They'd be quick to tell you that themselves. I hope & pray you'll get alone with Holy Spirit about this. PS: I, too, am born again. And I, too, am an evangelical- tho I'm compelled to qualify with OLD SCHOOL evangelical" considering the modern definition/ connotation. And I whole-heartedly believe in separation of church & state/constitution. Let us not only SEPARATE, but hold God's will infinitely & consistently ABOVE the constitution & ABOVE all man's laws when the two disagree.
@@Anabee3 There is no god and people like you make me shake my head. Total life illiteracy. Let people make their choices according to their situation. You make yours and I'm fine with that. You do not get to dictate my life choices.
@@Anabee3 I have appreciated many of your comments over the years. I know you love Jesus... I have another viewpoint about it and I love Jesus too... Life is not just about birth it's not just about having children or procreation. But You know that. Life in all it's forms are a precious gift. If that precious child has an abortion, do you think Jesus turns away and refuses to comfort and heal her trauma? Of course you don't! He would lean in even further rather than deny her own humanity. He said as much when he said he came to call not the righteous but the unrighteousness. Sin abounds in all forms in the world, but somehow women and the poor and marginalized must pay more for those sins. God sees that and says we ourselves should do better. I know women who made both choices. Their humanity is affected by all kinds of choices on a daily basis, their own and others. I also know gun enthusiasts who love Jesus too. Some of them vote for sanity, But so many never think of taking responsibility for the deaths of gun suicides or school shootings, or their neighbor shopping down the street. Why is that do you think, when they are so eager to take on the responsibility to champion life in the womb? my guess is because they themselves will never have to suffer the cost. I am not suggesting that you are not sincere. I believe you are. The difference I see is the lens that we're looking through
ok... if you dont believe in abortion, dont have one. But, if you believe no one should have abortions, you believe that people should be forced to be pregnant, even when that pregnancy might seriously harm or even kill them.
Oh, and the Bible does talk about abortions. Leviticus gives a method to abort an unborn baby. The bible says babies aren't "alive" until they take their first breath.
Ah yes...the old straw man of "extreme health threats" from pregnancy which happen far less than every proponent of abortion claims. Abortion is the legacy of Adolf Hitler. Hitler in his mind , never killed a single human in the death camps...he simply redefined what it meant to be human and killed what didn't meet his definition on an industrial scale to suit his purposes at the time. The abortionists insist they've never killed a single human being...like Hitler...they simply redefined what it means to be human and murdered what doesn't meet their definition, on an industrial scale to suit their purposes at the time. Every one who murders an innocent human in the womb is going to be judged.
@JewandGreek Re your queries here is the scholarly consensus: 1. Numbers 5:11-31 Where a man suspects (without evidence) his wife was unfaithful he is instructed to take his wife to the priest who gives the wife a potion intended to cause an abortion (and make her barren) if a pregnancy had resulted from being unfaithful. 2. In Jeremiah 1:5 it says that the Lord told Jeremiah he knew him BEFORE he was conceived. This was not intended to mean that human life begins BEFORE conception. Same thing with the John the Baptist verse.
I listened to the entire podcast on the website. I thought this was a fair interview. One thing I disagreed with was Rob's statement that it was threatening to a lot of people that a black man can be president. Many people didn't vote for Obama because 1) They never vote Democrat, and 2) Obama was way too progressive.
Christian nationalism is a term that has been talked about recently and in my opinion it’s just a way to get opposing sides to attack Christians. I go to church regularly and visit different churches, and I have never seen any examples of Christian nationalism. The people who are accusing Christians of being Christian nationalist in my opinion are people who don’t attend church at all because they’re not seeing from the other side. But there’s nothing wrong with being patriotic, as well as being a Christian. Patriotism was once a virtue that was looked on admirably in this country, but now with all the anti-America hate it’s simply become a word that equates you with a far right radical.
How can i listen to the whole episode? I see the link in the show notes, but once I'm there, nothing is active. I can look at the menu but it doesn't work
@@HolyPost I read the link. It grieves me that I cannot afford to join patron due to my physical disabilities growing so severe that (pathetically & only with Christ can I bare the humility ); my adult children are paying my rent until social security comes thru. I can't ask them for one dime that's not an absolute necc. Do you allow any acceptions? H.P. is the only s.m. content I care about enough to even ask.
@@Anabee3if you have access to any podcast service, you can still listen to the entire episode for free. Spotify, Apple, etc. The change is just for UA-cam.
@@HolyPost Odd choice. Most people just make a separate "clips channel." Putting the full show behind the paywall feels like you're giving a lot of us casual fans the shaft.
He would be amazed how many people need to be told that killing, stealing, and adultery is against God and wrong. The law is our school master. Christ is the fulfillment of what that law calls for to bring us back to the God that we offended.
To the atheist there is no objective morality (only subjective making life meaningless). When you say that what Hitler did was wrong then you must steal objective morality from God through the Ten Commandments. God gave us innate value with a moral conscience/compass to guide us what is objectively wrong.
Creator of my most favorite movie of all time! Inconceivable thats he is on here. I do appreciate Rob's comments concerning Christ and Christianity. Wish he'd turn his life toward Him and acknowledge Him as the Messiah.
He sets up a catch 22. He says “ of course you should vote your beliefs “, but if your vote results in the codifying of a law into the code than you are forcing someone else who voted the other way to comply by government force. He seems to be confused.
Pick one: A) "Hey God, I made illegal such things as cigarettes, booze, drugs, porn, abortion and profanity... and with great strength, swift judgement and no mercy I rounded up all of the violators and punished them by putting them in prison... I do this for you." B) "Hey God, I choose NOT to smoke, drink, do drugs, watch porn, opt for abortion, or cuss because... well... none of these things help or reflect my growing faith and trust in you. I choose to always act with kindness, patience and encouragement... and while standing graciously firm in what I believe, I respect (and will not impose upon) the right of others to choose their own path, as you have allowed from the beginning... I do this for you."
The words of Jesus don’t matter much until you begin to know the man who said them. It’s not the word but the spirit and the Son of Man who died and rose again that gives life to those teachings and those words. No one can live up to the teachings of Jesus Christ except Jesus Christ and that is why the faith relationship in Christ and the teaching of rebirth is so important. I am a miserable person with so many personal issues and failures and sin. I am always inspired by people who also have personal struggles and are humble and who embrace Jesus Christ as their Lord. I think a lot of people cringe when they hear that term Lord. I think a lot of people cringe when you talk about Jesus and faith and salvation and sin and hope and hell. The thing is that these things are very real. They are as real as pain and death. If you want hope then read the gospels and pray to God. If you are sincere I think God will honor your prayers and do something very significant in your life.
7:37-47 Rob Reiner is really nice about the pro-life position here- something I wouldn't have expected from his Twitter page in all honesty, but I really dislike "I don't like abortion but I won't force that onto others." If something is immoral, it's not okay for anyone. "I don't like child/spouse abuse, but I won't force that onto others." "I don't like school shootings, but I won't force that onto others." So on and so forth. If you don't like abortion, you wouldn't want children to be aborted, regardless of if they are yours or not.
Not good comparisons since the abortion topic is more loaded than that. Abortion includes for medical concerns as well such as miscarriages and the baby dying inside of the wound.
@@jhuh24 Pro-lifers tend to believe in medical exceptions. In fact, ectopic pregnancy is not considered an abortion- for example. A person who has this stance is saying they wouldn't abort for financial reasons or rape or personal connivence, but they wouldn't stop someone else for doing that.
@zacharysiple629 You are taught, in church, that the rights of personhood begin at conception... even though the bible does not specifically make any such claim. Most other people, when thinking about abortion, are instead concerned with pragmatic reduction of suffering.
I think Rob Reiner's statement is not clear. I believe a better statement would be that he does not believe in medically unnecessary abortions. Abortion is a medical procedure. Women and her doctor need to make decisions in medically necessary abortions. Choosing to abort in heathy situations can be a morally religious debate. Please vote.
@kaycocco9867 I'm wondering if there is any nuance to your abortion views, apart from medical. No-one would deny your right to make moral choices for yourself. But what about when imposing those moral choices on others through the law? Eg 1. At conception there is nothing except a single cell. Is it murder, in your view, if that cell is intentionally flushed out medically? If so, how many years should the woman, her partner and anyone else involved receive as punishment? If no, then at what point of ongoing division of those cells is it sufficient to invoke murder penalties? And if you are not invoking murder penalties, why not? 2. Should a foetus have MORE rights than a young child? E.g. The foetus requires the mother's bodily fluids to survive and thrive. You say that the woman cannot reject provision of those bodily fluids. So if a young child similarly requires bodily fluids from a parent to survive and thrive (eg blood transfusions) then should parents be forced to connect themselves up to provide those fluids, indefinitely and whenever required? Or can they choose not to?
Abortion is nowhere near the top of my issues list. Women will get abortions regardless of what the law says. If is an all powerful god (or gods) that disagrees so much with abortion, let him (or them) step in and stop them, or deal with it in the afterlife.
A lot of people would benefit from forgetting everything they learned about Christianity, turning off the news and commentary, scrubbing their brain with soap, and then just go through the 4 gospels and write down everything Jesus told you to do. And then go back to studying the rest of the Bible.
Ironically atheists as a group consistently score higher on religious knowledge tests than Christians. A common theme among atheists is that studying the bible is what converted them to becoming an atheist.
Vote for who you want to vote just don’t force us to vote for who you want to vote. Is basically what Reiner is trying to say here. As for abortion, unless you are actually willing to help a woman that you impregnate and she gave the consent to but out of her life. It’s not like you’re going to help raise the kid especially when all you are is a complete stranger. And have no personal relationship with them.
Jesus said the path to glory in heaven is to sell all your possessions, give the money to the poor, and follow him (Matthew 19:21) Why do Christians ignore this clear directive from Jesus? Why are Christians not voting instead for social welfare programs that support the poor, like Jesus said to? This would be a practical measure which would reduce abortions by mothers who can see they cannot support their existing children let alone support a new one.
@@canwelook that maybe so but something tells me you have not seen the movie spotlight. And i only mentioned women here. Until you’ve seen the movie spotlight that is actually based on a true story all over the world don’t give me what Jesus says here. Bc even religious people take advantage of what Jesus does say to do. And trust me you won’t believe what disgusting things these religious ppl are willing to do.
@Holy Post I did find it a little inaccurate that Rob resonates with the teachings of Jesus… probably except his teaching that he is the Son of God and died for all our sins
REINER would have been better off a SILENT partner. Only AFTER the movie had played should he have come forward. Whatever the case, GOOD luck w/ the documentary.
Religious extremism is on the way out, and atheism is growing faster than ever. That's the best thing happening in the world today. Religion isn't all bad, but it's mostly bad. This channel is the only place where I have seen Christians talking rationally. Keep up the good work.
I disagree vehemently. When any person goes to the ballot box and uses their faith to decide to vote remove a freedom from the general public, that is a vote in the hopes of being able to force someone’s else into the submission of the voters faith. Have a strongly held belief, as is your right. Practice that belief in your life, as is your right. Teach that faith to your children, as is your right. Congregate with others who share that belief, as is your right. But when you vote, your vote should seek to not only protect you and your rights but the rights of other people as well; even those people you disagree with.
Wow , wow what teuth and straight from the Bible and Paul.. and Jesus too. If you love your neighbor then all commandements are covered .. Truth 2 Commanents I give you, Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and might and Love your neighbor as yourself.. all summed up so correctly in the freedom we get when we believe in Jesus..
Another thoughtful discussion , thanks. Isn’t the issue about whether the government/ legal system should continue to enforce white Christian religious beliefs on an increasingly diverse society that doesn’t want that? If you have an objection to abortion, then don’t get one. If you think LBGTQ is sinful, don’t do that, minding your own business.
Christians wonder why people are leaving Christianity in droves. The Christian share of the population drops by about 1% every year. And these persistent attempts to impose their morality on other people (instead of managing their own moral behaviour) is a key reason.
Rob said you can't "make" someone vote/believe like you, etc...But, that goes back to Phil's LGBTQ question when conservative folks feel "made" to act, work, etc...a certain way because of someone else's beliefs. Acting out of "religious" principle is inescapable.
Anyone who uses the expression, " the teachings of Jesus" does not understand Christianity. Rob is doing his darndest, and is trying to be fair. But " love your neighbor as yourself" is not only Jewish in origin, it's also universal. So where is the objection? This is never really clarifed.
@@Ex_christianGovernment was founded on God (the one true God, one true religion, the eyewitness testimonies of Christ). Every form of American currency says “in God we trust.” Plus license plates say that. Romans 1:20-21 No one is without excuse for not knowing God (the sky and creation testifies for a creator). Also, “Separation of church and state” was to convey religious freedom, so the government does not interfere with Christianity.
@@silasbucur685 and it’s obvious you follow the Malevolent war god of Abraham who committed Genocide, allows Murder, Rape, Incest, etc. all in his name! Why would any person want to follow an evil god that needs us to worship his pathetic being?
"The Bible doesn't mention "abortion".🙄 Mmm.hmmm... Just like many other terms that were not terms at that time. So...correct! HOWEVER: its GLARINGLY OBVIOUS by reading all related Biblical verse that God commands us to not kill babies-incldg those he is currently knitting in the womb. (Logic dictates...) Also, NO ONE separates their ethics from politics. And for us (genuine) Christians: Its not even about what WE believe, it's about what GOD believes & being faithful to him & his commandments: not leaning on our own understanding. As KAITLYN once pointed out: (slightly paraphrased)- "God created us & the world we live in. Therefore, HE knows the best way for us to live as fallen ppl in this fallen world." Nowhere in the Bible does it say "Brush your teeth atleast 2ce per day" either, but we can read other scripture that tells us we are to take care of ourselves, incldg our physical selves& put 2-n-2 together. Im disappointed Rob used that ridic trope, further confirming that High I.Q is not synonymous with WISDOM. I DO agree that the Trumpy approaches & reactions are anti-Christ, tho.THAT'S glaringly obvious, too. No ifs, ands, or but's.
10:12 Finally, the real meat of the issue (about abortion rights vs faith). -- Rob says voting to outlaw abortion is *not* an attempt to force an anti-abortion belief onto others. But of course it is. Because by voting to outlaw or greatly restrict abortion based on the voting-person's religious (or "spiritual") beliefs, the voting-person is trying to create a situation where: Someone who wants a legal and safe abortion has no access to it because of legal *force* being used to shut down all such access. Moreover, we're talking about force backup by literal guns, night-sticks, tasers, etc, along with the equally-immediate threat of prison (or worse)). Additionally, if someone attempts to have (or assist, or provide) an abortion in violation of that law (a law voted into law by Christians and for religious reasons), then: they attempt that under threat of being arrested (at gun point) and thrown into a prison cell (and/or executed). Why is this so difficult for Christians to understand? Every vote cast in any attempt to create or perpetuate any criminal law, ... is always and automatically an attempt to mobilize violent force, as a means to force compliance (with those laws) into others. Voting for any criminal law means voting for enforcement OF that law via threat of physical violence. That includes the immediate violence of the police-threat itself, and then the violence of an arrest, and then the follow-up violence in prison, and the fatal violence that happens at a person's execution (in case such a law goes far; which some would), etc. We must also consider the violent consequences to the larger family OF the arrested persons. Remember. "Violence" isn't always a matter of sudden kinetic energy directly traumatizing soft-tissues. Violence is any act or choice which predictably results in any form of trauma (physical, psychological, or emotional). We must also consider the violent consequences to any later-formed children that are forced into existence under parent(s) who knew during the first trimester that they wouldn't be able to provide for all that future-child's needs. We must also consider the violent consequences to pregnant women (and tiny, underage girls, age 8-teens) per the danger to their own lives when forced to carry non-viable pregnancies, and/or forced to carry a pregnancy to term after being told by a qualified physician that said pregnancy would likely result in their own death. All of that is, by definition, unavoidably, inarguably., an attempt to mobilize a government's physical force and threat of violence to impose that law onto others. And to whatever extent it causes physical and/or psychological trauma (either directly or as a predictable result) it is actively committing violence against any citizens whom would suffer those consequences. Additionally, voting to ban or greatly-restrict access to legal and safe abortions results (inevitably) in a sharp rise in fatalities from young girls and women utilizing illegal abortions and self-administered abortions. All the while, the very act of fighting or voting to criminalize access to abortions is a direct and blatant violation of the "moral principal of free will" that Christians claim to prioritize. How much sense does it really make(?) for a religious person to argue that "the reason" their GOD allows so much suffering in our world, and so then "the reason" he doesn't interfere by means of any force whatsoever, is that: HE prioritizes "Free Will" (for this world) OVER that of His own will, because "reasons". - Reasons like: "He wants to prove how badly things go for humans when they don't fully surrender to his will and moral-laws". But then the very same religious people argue that GOD sent THEM to FORCE moral-compliance (with some cherry-picked issues) over people who aren't in his "one true religion" (or. "one true "totally not a religion")? If your GOD wants YOU to force compliance with some moral-laws, then why not for ALL moral-laws? And if he's cool with you acting AS HIS HANDS in this world, to weaponize a government against citizens who don't share your views and values, to FORCE compliance with his moral laws, then: How can that claim be harmonized with the claim that he's letting "this wicked world" do whatever it wants, without him interfering, because "reasons"? He's either for OR against enforcing moral-law-compliance against "the world". Which is it? Meanwhile, if a 1st-trimester fetus is "a person" with "a soul", then what happens to them when they "die"? If they go straight to heaven forever, isn't that more preferable than being later-born onto an Earthly-life? "Down here", their ODDS of avoiding "eternal damnation" are super-BAD once they reach some "age of accountability". And that's compared to 100%-assured if they are aborted. Right? Whereas, if you say you don't know IF those "babies" end up in a HELL, then that's the same as saying you don't know IF your God is super-evil or not. And you don't really have the luxury of saying you "don't know what your God would do" if the REASON you are a Christian is because you're impressed by EXACTLY what that proposed-Entity's moral values are. Whereas, if you entertain hypotheticals which avoid both outcomes, like saying "maybe they get born to other parents later instead", then wouldn't that mean they aren't "dying" but are merely being relocated? For being part of a larger "church" of deep-thinkers, who are "spirit led" (by a perfect omni-everything BEING) into all (necessary) understanding, and who have had THOUSANDS OF YEARS to hash all of it out (philosophically and morally), I remain impressed by how much the whole lot of you haven't really 'thought it through'.
Sorry...if you don't have a uterus, you don't get to tell any pregnant person what to do with their body. Period. I will not be engaging in any comments that follow under mine. Yes, I'm a Christian--Cradle Catholic, in fact.
Well that’s a shame you don’t want to defend your statement since most of us are hear to listen, dialogue, learn, and share. Don’t throw your gauntlet down and walk away. I have a uterus but guess what? It’s not about me as the possessor of the uterus but about God Almighty who is the actual Creator of the uterus. He created it and therefore gets to decide what is done with it. Period. And because He is God Almighty He can bring any woman through the most harrowing of circumstances when she trusts in Him 🙏🏾
We have all kinds of laws about what you can do with your body - tattoo laws ... drug laws .... we even throw people into a psych ward if they try to harm themselves. Gender has nothing to do with it. It's about what we deem acceptable as a society.
9:49 I would phrase that as: "You can have a Christian reason for being pro-life, but in terms of politics, you should focus on the secular reasons for being pro-life." (IE Life begins at conception.)
Right, the secular reasoning is why personally, even as a believer in christ, I look at the 20-24 week mark as the parts of the brain that gives the spark of sentience, humanity, is about that point. I can't think of secular reasoning before that. Then after that we have ways that we can preserve the life of the child and you can't do anything but those period.
There are no objective secular reasons for being prolife. Secular sources can only tell you when human life begins... No objective reasons why that human being is valuable..
@amritaasher3855 Your use of the word secular seems misplaced. Did you mean scientific? Wants, desires, preferences, and matters of morality are by their nature subjective, and never objective... for both the religious and the secular.
@@canwelook there's an objective reason why human beings are valuable in judeo Christian worldview.. that human beings are created in the image of God.. take away judeo Christian worldview, no such objective reason remains.. what remains are subjective preferences.. this is why I feel pro life causes are doomed.. Christian pro lifers assume sanctity of human life, which doesn't really make sense in a post Christian world! Secular prolifers also assume sanctity of human life, but are unable to give a reason for that! BTW, I meant secular in its most primitive meaning: without religion..
Rob R. "Of course its not wrong to vote your belief'. "You just can't force someone to have those beliefs". Rob, how do I vote my belief on abortion without forcing someone to have that belief? The only way I can "vote my belief" on abortion would be to vote for someone who wants to ban abortion. And by doing that it would be forcing someone to have that belief (or at least abide by that belief). So in essence it leaves pro-life Christians in a catch 22. I also question if he really hates abortion because if you really hate something, you want it to stop. Rob's statements are contradictory. The whole idea of fighting for for your political beliefs is to enact those ideas. You cannot fight for your beliefs without forcing them on someone.
@@ohyeah3365 Thanks for proving the point. You are ultimately stating that if Christians consider abortion killing an innocent human (the most scientifically appropriate description, BTW) they cannot enact governmental policy by way of their vote and political support to limit and severely restrict it. That is precisely the double standard Phil brings up.
You can vote against abortion but that doesn't force anyone to accept your worldview. They will still believe abortion is fine. The problem is that the vast majority of the country supports abortion but it is being made illegal by a minority. God put a tree in the garden that brought death and destruction to everyone. I think we can handle abortion being legal and worry more about removing the reasons people seek one out. The church is not absolved by criminalizing abortion. The church will be absolved when they actually take care of mothers and children. About 3/4th of abortions are financially motivated. The US is the only wealthy country where a single mother is more likely to be poor.
@@ohyeah3365 All laws are a means of forcing the belief of the majority on others. If Bob thinks he should be able to drive any speed he likes on the interstate but the rest of us believe there should be limits, posting speed limits is forcing our belief on Bob. Yet there is nothing wrong with doing that. Because we all agree Bob is a reckless idiot.
I worked for the government near Atlantic City and never saw such undercutting, gaslighting, abuse, and poor quality control as in this technical center known locally as a country club. The jingoism, conflation of personal ambitions with the "mission", and tribal thinking / group think was childish and selfish. Many of know the problem is less with religion and more with the worship of a systen which justifies privilege and conflates patriotism with themselves.
Ok... I’m starting with the man in the mirror, then moving on to aid the least of these, to imagining all the people sharing all the world and being the change you wish to see, to live simply, so others can simply live, as darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that, Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that... so i’m... Pro💜Love 👣🕊👽
You have a right to your beliefs, but the right is limited because of our secular form of government and you need to understand that. If you don't like our Constitution or or our form of democracy, you might consider moving to another country aligned with your beliefs.
Who cares what he thinks? He thinks he’s important. If his father didn’t sell his tv series idea to Calvada Productions nobody would know who his son Robby was. He didn’t write, create, or produce All in the Family. The door opened to him.
@@Ex_christian I have read it numerous times in Spanish and English. It's their job to answer. If they haven't even read the entire Bible, they should shut up.
@@EnthusiasticTent-xt8fh that’s the problem! MOST in the Christian cult have NEVER read the Bible! If they did, they wouldn’t be in the Christian cult! You have the Malevolent war god of Abraham who committed Genocide, allows Murder, Rape, Incest, etc. all in his name! That IS the god of the Bible!
@@EnthusiasticTent-xt8fh the Bible shows the Malevolent war god of Abraham who committed Genocide, allows Murder, Rape, Incest, etc. all in his name! Doesn’t look like a loving god to me!
I'm glad this conversation happened, but I think there was a missed opportunity to have an honest conversation about how members of the left try to force others to adopt their beliefs on transgenderism and homosexuality, for example. Anyone who respectfully expresses opposition to their viewpoint is labeled as trans/homophobic and no further discourse is allowed. This approach should not be acceptable from either side.
I think a key part of the question is, How does your opposition play out? “They can’t have the same rights as me because I object” is infringing on them. “I don’t want to see them” (i.e., I want them out of sight, out of mind) is infringing on them. If we agree that LGBT folks have equal rights, then we’re on the same page. What avenues for opposition are you thinking of?
The best way to prevent self-harm among members of the LGBTQ community is for them to be affirmed as fellow human beings and not have much of society condemn their existence as being inherently sinful. If maintaining your beliefs is more important to you than keeping them safe, then I don't know what to tell you.
On this part where abortion isn't in the Bible I don't know if it is or isn't. But if God did make life why would he want you to take life it doesn't make any sense to me. And there is The ten commandments which says do not kill ect.
Ok to vote your belief? Well if enough share your belief you can now force others to follow your belief under threat of law. I reject that and will fight oppression be it de jure or de facto. If your God is as in control as you say, then let God sort it out. And when you die, head on off to pasture under His will. People who fail to convince so decide to command must be opposed at all costs.
Why is abortion such an issue for Americans? Why do you insist that to be a Christian you must also be against abortion? In most civilized countries abortion is just another medical procedure, not to be requested for trivial reasons and only carried out if medically necessary. I’ve spoken to a few people who have this American mindset and they are frighteningly fixated on it, incapable of holding a reasoned conversation about it. Why?
Christians obey God. And God is pro-life. Furthermore...the modern day abortion fight is actually about men and women who want to preserve a promiscuous lifestyle and avoid the consequences of their promiscuity. As Christians, did God tell us to support promiscuity ? No.
@@markanthony3275 promiscuity has always been a thing. Why wasn't abortion prohibited in Scripture? If it was that important, surely God would've made it a command.
@@averageuser4367 God did more than prohibit abortion in the Bible...He prohibited the refusal of a man to create offspring for his dead brother through his dead brother's wife . And God put Onan to death because the continuation of life was that important. If the continuation of life and family was that important , then would God be against the ending of life and family through abortion? Absolutely! Some things don't have to be a written command to be God's will.
The “Didache” although not Cannon is a first century guide for Christian discipleship. It outright condemns not only abortion but those who facilitate it.
So if I don't force my beliefs on others aka anti abortion you are okay with me. But I am "forced" to pay for something, aka abotion, something I do not believe in and I should just shut up about that. Always Hypocrisy.
You aren't forced to pay for abortions. There is more than enough money from the people who support abortions to pay in the rare cases where the government pays.
ABORTION is murder ! Who Says 🤔 GOD THATS WHO.. ISAIAH 📜 CHAPTER 44 VERSE 24... 🌿🌺📜📖🌺🌿 ASK YOUR PHONE OR COMPUTER FOR THESE KING JAMES GOSPEL SCRIPTURES AND MAY GOD BLESS YOU BOUNTIFULLY FOR READING GOD'S HOLY WORD
Bro never read: Psalm 139:13-16 For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. Or: Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations." Or: Romans 1:28-32 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, !murder!, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. Or: Proverbs 6:16-19 There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.
That would work, if you could then find the part of the Bible that says abortion is murder. But, the reality is that the only place killing a fetus is mentioned, God says you can pay some money to deal with it. Not be executed like you would for a murder. There's a reason why Christians before the 1960s all disagreed about abortion. There were pro-choice Baptists, even. If it was in the Bible, it would have been clearly wrong from the get-go.
@@turkeypedal If you are saying it was immoral for God to kill people in the Old Testament then how is your moral right of abortion justifiable? (in this way abortion is playing God)
So meathead - Should I be forced to take the Covid vaccine to keep my job or obtain medical care? Can I use discourse to discuss the stolen 2020 election without being banned on social media??
If the 2020 election was stolen, why did Trump lose all but one of his court cases? If the 2020 election was stolen, why didn't the Democrats steal more Senate seats? They've barely been able to do anything with a 50/50 Senate.
The second question: no. Lying is a sin. And social media is not controlled by the government. Private companies have a right to kick you out. The first question? Probably not, if you have already had COVID recently enough. But if you haven't, then you are risk to others, and they have a right to protect other workers or other patients. And it was Archie who called him Meathead. Archie was a bigot. He always learned that "Meathead" was right by the end of the episode.
Rob: "They should watch the film and decide for themselves"
America: "But that's not how we do things."
Haha pretty much
I hate how accurate this statement is.
Does this apply to COVID vax info?
Does this apply to Alex jones, Nick Fuentes, Stefan molineax who were all deplatformed, debarked and put on no-fly lists in some cases just for speech?
You and the holy poster hypocrites agreed by way of silence
Plenty of people say “Do your own research.” But that’s not quite what they mean!
Fox propaganda network tries to tell them what their opinion is. They do the “research” for them. Like “Don’t listen to Taylor Swift or other celebrities… unless it’s Ted Nugent”
I’m loving the discourse on this channel. I’m a Christian, and this reasoning is exactly what is needed. Also, the history lessons of other videos are fascinating.
Stick around! More history lesson videos are coming soon!
Agreed!
Jesus was loved by his followers , and hated by many simply because he told us the truth. As a Christian I know Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior. I do not judge anyone that's his task, but I will never ever support sin of any kind or rationalize it .
@@davidkuharich9269
Best moral posturing of the day 👍
Dogma above Love, letter above spirit, perception above reality 👍
@@ezbody
The lack of self-awareness in a statement like this is amazing.
Sexual liberation, feminism, and bodily autonomy are dogmas as much as anything that Christians purport.
A Christian could just as easily say that those dogmas are being elevated over the Love of defenseless humans, i.e. the unborn.
Outstanding content. I think Reiner’s message is similar to Ghandi’s opinion. “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” He’s not wrong, but the observation is not complete because of all the believers who do practice “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. The value of this exchange is both sides learning from one another.
I know more non-Christians who actually live the Golden Rule in their every day lives than I do Christians who do. If anything, Christians usually use God as an excuse to treat people like crap.
Frederick Douglass said the same thing. It's a very common sentiment. People leave the church, they don't leave Jesus.
@@bkucenski That's true. If someone leaves Jesus, they weren't really his to begin with.
That said; I (HYPOCRITICALLY) encourage every servant of Christ to find & stay in fellowship ASAP. There are a good reasons God commands that we are to be in fellowship with each other.
I left the Church AND I left Jesus -- and your attempt to claim that "if someone leaves Jesus, they weren't really his to begin with" is a fallacy. I was a _fanatical_ believer in Christ for seven years of my life: I devoted my entire existence to Jesus. I accepted him as my Lord and Savior, prayed to him every day, carried my bible around with me everywhere I went, attended church several times a week, hung around with only Christian friends, listened to only Christian music, "witnessed" to people, organized my entire existence around Jesus Christ, and believed with all my heart that everything in the bible was true.
And for you -- and plenty of other Christians like you -- to sit there and say "you weren't really a Christian", my response would be: then WTF _is_ a Christian? If I wasn't one, nobody is. I was an absolute believer in Jesus, 100%. The fact that I eventually came out of that and departed the faith doesn't mean I wasn't a believer to begin with: that's a fallacy. It's called the "No True Scotsman" fallacy, where you move the goalposts after the fact to say "Oh, then they weren't really a true Christian in the first place." Bullshit! I believed in Jesus with all my heart. I just _stopped_ believing, that's all.
As for why I stopped believing: because I could no longer sweep the idea of *hell* under the rug. I couldn't rationalize it anymore. You simply cannot reconcile the idea of a "loving God" with the existence of a hell of everlasting torment and pain: those are mutually exclusive concepts, and when I finally stopped being able to do the mental gymnastics of accepting those mutually exclusive concepts -- in other words, when I started to let *logic* back into my thinking -- the doctrine of hell began to unravel...followed eventually by the rest of the whole illogical religion. I saw, one after another, the gaping holes in biblical doctrine, and the whole irrational edifice collapsed like the house of cards it always was. Took me years to finally deprogram myself -- Christian ideas lingered in my mind for a long time -- but I eventually eradicated almost every trace of my Christian faith. I was 100% a believer, and now I'm 100% _not_ a believer -- and there are millions of others like me. And you can't sweep us conveniently under the rug by trying to claim that we were "never believers in the first place", because that's simply not true.
@@Anabee3 I am afraid of disagreement.
My observation is that the vast majority of pro-lifers are not extreme "in all circumstances" people. I think it is the same for pro-choicers. If we could just stay back from the edges of extreme, I think we would find that there is not that much ground to cover to get to a middle ground. But then, I am an optimist.
I have gotten into discussions lately with people on the pro-choice side, and most of them have the idea of sentience. So around 20-24 weeks we see the neurons in the brain firing that are the ones related to sentience and experience when studied in the human mind. They start around 20-24 weeks. So even "pro-choice all 9 months" folks I talk to make the point there are ways to end the pregnancy for the woman while keeping the child viable. Now, the farther you go of course the higher likelihood of the child being alive, and we need to do more the make that a solution, but I can see that as an argument and think if THATS how it was discussed I can see it I can get it.
The gender affirming care for kids I have seen the discussion as the care that is irreversible is done rarely if ever on anyone under 17 because the anatomy just isn't there. Puberty blockers are used on kids who are not trans so they are tested and safe, hormone replacement during teen years if monitored by a doctor can be reversed before adulthood if necessary. So, before puberty gender affirming care is a hair cut, different clothes, and Alexa being called Alex. Personally, if it means a kid grows up at all (which studies find that when they are accepted by parents/friends/their community rates of depression and thoughts of suicide PLUMMET in transgender youth) then fine. I don't know how god will feel about them when they pass, but I am not without sin so I will not judge.
@dalewilliams4359.
It’s not reasonableness vs. fanaticism. That’s an exceedingly inhospitable way to think of it. If you yourself believed that abortion was murder, you would become an “in all circumstances” extremist. This is a disagreement that we are having, a reasonable disagreement.
I think you’re terribly wrong…but only because the infant’s right to life should take priority over the mother’s issues of bodily autonomy and legitimate self-interest.
I disagree. The pro-lifers may not be aware of it, but their assumptions must include the idea that women are not people. Once they've successfully incorporated that idea, it's easy enough to babble about unicorns or magical fetus or baby. All that is necessary is to diminish the woman as a human and suddenly, anything is possible and well, does it really matter if she suffers or dies? she's worthless.
That is the base assumption that the pro-lifer MUST have and they'll deny it. They don't want to admit this horrific inhumanity. they want to be viewed as nice and good. Savita Halapanavar is dead. Kate Cox had to flee Texas. And the fact is that the pro-lifers have committed a lot of long distance murder.
part 2 coming in replay
part 2
How? Look up maternal mortality rates. Logically speaking, women should have a predictable risk of harm from a pregnancy. but we see that the conservative pro-life states have a jump in that number. That's the murder rate. This is how pro-lifers murder human beings and get to pretend they are good people. And when you factor race into this, it's clear that we have a racial motive as well. Black babies aren't desired. Black women aren't people. All this group wants is white babies. That's why the images are of white babies mostly. It's white replacement theory.
part 3 next
part 3.
And Christianity is an anti-sex religion. It's very neurotic. Have you ever heard a pro-lifer say "well, you should have kept your knees shut"? Think of what that logically implies. that pregnancy is a punishment. That pregnancy is a sign of sinfulness. Again, this group does not like women. (and women have internalized this dangerous idea. Especially white women because well.. they want power and they are willing to sacrifice everybody to gain that power. They're too close to white male power to be trusted.)
*oh.. and standard not all white people, not all white women, not all white men.
Think of why they oppose gay marriage? It's because they can't tell if this group has had sex and show the signs of their "sin".
The pro-lifers are not to be trusted because they are not sincere people. They just use words. But the end result is that women are dead because pro-lifers believe in "animal sacrifice" of women. That's their truth. If they actually saw women as people, they'd never be able to push their will on women's bodies. That's what you do to your pet or your property..you know.. like branding a cow or declawing your cat. This is how they view women because this is their policy positions. They are not good faith and they are not to be trusted. Evil. That's what they really are.
So the concept Phil is looking for is called "mutuality". Its the idea you would be ok with the standards you apply on another person also being applied to you.
So like with sexuality and gemder: are you ok with someone deciding what type of clothes you should wear? Can "real men" wear pink? Are floral prints allowed? Are woman allowed to wear pants?
The thing with creating rules for someones gender expression, is you also have to be ok with having someone rule on your gender expression.
The same with sexulity: are you allowed to have adult toys? Is what happens in the bedroom just your business or can the community regulate it.
We seem to have agreed that when it comes to sexuality its best for folks to have "a right to privacy". That is in the US we dont control what happens in the bedroom.
This type of mutually: realizing that certain areas of life should be excluded from regulation: is the basis of rights.
Like why are you allowed to worship how you want? If the US randomly became controlled by Episcopalians, couldnt they say "we believe the Episcopal church is the one true church. From now on everyone must be Episcopalian"?
We realize that certain things like sexuality, freedom of conscience, freedom or association, right to a fair trial, access to healthcare, education, housing, food and water.
Are areas of life that are shouldnt be touched by a religious worldview, because they are so fundamental to a person as a human being, it would be unconscionable to accept being under the rule of another persons idea of what they should be.
You see this in countries where Christianity is a minority. Christians when they are oppressed have the clearity of mind to advocate for freedom of religion. When subject to one-child policies, advocate for the freedom to have the family you think you should have.
The problem of Christian nationalism: it wants to have its human rights, but deny them to others too. Like "oof, you mean we must learn how to live with lgbtq folks, non-believers, feminist, and immigrants? Those things dont help us. Those actually help the folks we are against."
Which is interesting, because Jesus taught love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, when asked to go one mile go two, pick up your cross and follow me. Who ever tries to save their life will loose it, whoever looses their life will gain everlasting life.
I think its hard to imagine a Jesus who is down with the Christian nationalist movement.
But he was ok with Jewish nationalist,read your Bible
@@SongSwanJames' Jesus tales were for his brother who he knew was not divine and had the same parents as himself. He was not a Christ for Jews but, as Rob Reiner said, his teachings supersede sky fairies and are basic for humanity. You could follow Jesus as Jesus, but not Christ, and you had to circumcise yourself...or have a Rabbi do it.
A lot of Romans were happy to follow the Jewish Jesus, but that circumcision thing was an impediment. I think they needed to be assured it didn't cost them anything for the procedure, Rabbis worked for tips.
Do you consider yourself a Christian?
@@dthomas9230 Christian Nationalism is made up nonsense.The left just wants to silence the church so only they will be heard.
I find it hard to believe that Rob Reiner really means what he said about “if you are voting your beliefs, you are not forcing.”
In 2008, the people of California voted in favor of proposition 8, which defined marriage as between a man and a woman. The people voted, and it passed.
However, Rob and Michele Reiner didn’t like that, so they set up the American Foundation for Equal Rights to file lawsuits to overturn proposition 8. Sounds like The Reiners were forcing their beliefs on the people of California.
Outstanding episode! This is a keeper!
Rob Reiner is one of my favorite directors- he made some of my favorite movies- in fact those 4 posters behind him- Stand By Me, A Few Good Men, The Princess Bride, and The American President- switch the last 2 and those are my Top 4 favorite movies of his.
I know Skye loves Stand By Me, so I'm surprised to not see him in this discussion. I thought he'd want to talk with the director of one of his favorite movies.
I would have never thought that this atheist director would be on a podcast with the creator of VeggieTales, but wow- this is my dream crossover- LOL!
I didn't agree with everything Rob said, but the discussion was very interesting. I would love to see God and Country. :)
EDIT: Skye is in the movie- I thought he'd be in this video.
@@bobbobberson5627 I'm not sure if I have heard that or not...
I enjoyed this. Thanks for the insight.
The thing about "Christian" nationalism is that in four Gospels Christ never even remotely suggests that His disciples should have dominion over anyone, or that non-believers should be coerced into living according to "biblical" standards. What He DOES say is "My Kingdom is NOT of this world". And of course He says the second part of The Greatest Commandment is to "love your neighbor as yourself", but if you force your neighbor to live according to your own personal beliefs, that isn't loving your neighbor.....that's despising them. Finally, I just have to say, I have always just adored Rob Reiner, and can't wait to see this film.
So it’s also wrong that the state forces us to live so-called progressive Christian values by handing out welfare, universal healthcare and the refugee resettlement program, correct?
I partially agree as a Lutheran who reads the bible often. I don’t fully agree with your statement because Jesus does say in Matthew 28:18-20 NRSV that “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go there for and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, and of the son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the days”. However, Christian nationalism does not always treat those who aren’t Christian as humans who need Christs love. Some put the Nation over God and bastardized the faith with hate for those who are different.
@Sebman1113
You must firstly believe that passage, written generations after Jesus' death by someone who never met him, and never claimed to meet him, is accurate. Then you must believe it is divinely inspired to be true. Then you must believe you are interpreting it correctly.
I wonder, when it says "teaching them to obey" do you read this as meaning "forcing them, against their will, to obey"?
And if not then imposing "Christian" values here on others would be against Jesus' teachings, would it not? And society, overwhelmingly, is against Christians forcing their values on others, especially with regard to abortion (which, by the way, Jesus never specifically addressed). Yes?
@@Sebman1113 Well, but that's just it. All authority has been given to CHRIST, not Humans, and He in no way suggests that His disciples should "control" or have authority over others. You don't force someone to become a disciple. This is the same reason that we are forbidden to judge others....Christ has been given ALL judgment (John 5:22)....plus the fact that Christ tells us we can judge others ONLY if we ourselves are without sin. And the #1 favourite thing of the "Christian" nationalist is judging others based on their own myopic take on scripture.
You make a good point. If you read the (quite short) Wikipedia entry on Dominion Theology you will find yourself quite shocked at the tenets of this ideology that has come to dominate US fundamentalist evangelical churches.
I’m now in my 60’s and I can remember as a teenager growing up in a very conservative Baptist world (the late Jerry Falwell Snr was an occasional preacher in our church so you get the flavor) and I can distinct remember when one of the leading elders started teaching a Bible study course in Dominion Theology and how Christians ‘must’ in this day and age seek to take over the levers of (secular) power.
That elder himself was a wealthy man and involved in right wing politics. If he were alive today I’m sure he would be the local Republican Party chairperson.
The problem is that conservative christian politicians often approach politics as rulers and not representatives. Once elected they belief they've been empowered to dictate their own beliefs on the people. That means even when it would be representative of their constituents to support abortion rights they will reject it, vote their own opinion, and then try to refocus those constituents on the latest culture war talking points to remain in power.
A civil discussion between a Christian and an atheist. It is possible.
It can be difficult, though. Because each side thinks the other is metaphysically challenged.
When any party believes their dogma is infallible and cannot be challenged, then productive discussion is scuppered.
Yes, as long as the Christian has an open mind and know that what they believe is myth.
Im an evangelical born again, but Ive always understood that if a Muslim cant make me live under Sharia law, I cant tell a 15 year old rape victim that you cant get an abortion. We all agreed to be separate but equal, and this is apart of that
Can you tell someone by way of governmental enforcement that they cannot enslave another human being? If so, why? Can you tell someone by way of governmental enforcement that they cannot kill an innocent human being? If so, why?
Your comment reads: "I can't tell a 15yo rape victim she cant get an abtn"
Which begs the (sincere, hopefully gentle, well-received) question:
Can you tell her that GOD knits all babies in their mothers womb & that GOD says to murder ANY human baby is a sin? Can you plead with her to not sin against our 3rce Holy God? Can you assure her that God is bigger than all the excruciating trauma she's bn thru & will ever know? not only CAN he, but WANTS TO heal her thru it all (& any/all else she may encounter in this wicked world?) That God can &WANTS to take what is meant to DESTROY us & turn it into amazing blessings-all glory to HIM? She's not expected to handle any of that. Infact, shes COMMANDED not to. Though God doesn't FORCE us, he says that's for HIM to handle.Infact, its out of OBEDIENCE that we fully trust him with ALL our sorrows & difficulties & lean not on our own understanding.
Can you tell her that God wants comfort her & guide her to blessing ideal adoptive parents? (Fun fact: I learned "God is bigger!" from VeggieTales eps I watched with my grandchildren😉).
Your comment also reads: "We all agreed to be separate but equal & this is a part of that"
When you became born again, did you promise to serve Jesus above all, incldg mankind & man's law when the two are at odds? Bc that's a part of it. Infact, it's EVERYTHING.
Idk if it helps you to hear this, but I can assure you; its perfectly okay to not agree with & not go along with every belief of the hosts/pundits. As a long-time, consistent viewer, I can assure you: They'd be quick to tell you that themselves.
I hope & pray you'll get alone with Holy Spirit about this.
PS: I, too, am born again. And I, too, am an evangelical- tho I'm compelled to qualify with OLD SCHOOL evangelical" considering the modern definition/ connotation.
And I whole-heartedly believe in separation of church & state/constitution. Let us not only SEPARATE, but hold God's will infinitely & consistently ABOVE the constitution & ABOVE all man's laws when the two disagree.
@@StumblingThroughItAll I ❤ your s.m. handle. 🤗
@@Anabee3 There is no god and people like you make me shake my head. Total life illiteracy. Let people make their choices according to their situation. You make yours and I'm fine with that. You do not get to dictate my life choices.
@@Anabee3
I have appreciated many of your comments over the years. I know you love Jesus... I have another viewpoint about it and I love Jesus too...
Life is not just about birth it's not just about having children or procreation. But You know that. Life in all it's forms are a precious gift.
If that precious child has an abortion, do you think Jesus turns away and refuses to comfort and heal her trauma? Of course you don't! He would lean in even further rather than deny her own humanity. He said as much when he said he came to call not the righteous but the unrighteousness.
Sin abounds in all forms in the world, but somehow women and the poor and marginalized must pay more for those sins.
God sees that and says we ourselves should do better.
I know women who made both choices. Their humanity is affected by all kinds of choices on a daily basis, their own and others.
I also know gun enthusiasts who love Jesus too. Some of them vote for sanity, But so many never think of taking responsibility for the deaths of gun suicides or school shootings, or their neighbor shopping down the street. Why is that do you think, when they are so eager to take on the responsibility to champion life in the womb? my guess is because they themselves will never have to suffer the cost.
I am not suggesting that you are not sincere. I believe you are. The difference I see is the lens that we're looking through
Must say, I was surprised to see Rob on the channel! I was also delighted to see Rob on the channel at the same time!🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
ok... if you dont believe in abortion, dont have one.
But, if you believe no one should have abortions, you believe that people should be forced to be pregnant, even when that pregnancy might seriously harm or even kill them.
Oh, and the Bible does talk about abortions. Leviticus gives a method to abort an unborn baby. The bible says babies aren't "alive" until they take their first breath.
@@paulj8539 Where does it say that? John the Baptist was filled with the Spirit in his mother's womb.
Ah yes...the old straw man of "extreme health threats" from pregnancy which happen far less than every proponent of abortion claims. Abortion is the legacy of Adolf Hitler. Hitler in his mind , never killed a single human in the death camps...he simply redefined what it meant to be human and killed what didn't meet his definition on an industrial scale to suit his purposes at the time. The abortionists insist they've never killed a single human being...like Hitler...they simply redefined what it means to be human and murdered what doesn't meet their definition, on an industrial scale to suit their purposes at the time. Every one who murders an innocent human in the womb is going to be judged.
@JewandGreek
Re your queries here is the scholarly consensus:
1. Numbers 5:11-31 Where a man suspects (without evidence) his wife was unfaithful he is instructed to take his wife to the priest who gives the wife a potion intended to cause an abortion (and make her barren) if a pregnancy had resulted from being unfaithful.
2. In Jeremiah 1:5 it says that the Lord told Jeremiah he knew him BEFORE he was conceived. This was not intended to mean that human life begins BEFORE conception. Same thing with the John the Baptist verse.
@@canwelook You are wrong. Numbers 5: 11-31 has nothing to do with being pregnant...it has to do with being unfaithful.
I listened to the entire podcast on the website. I thought this was a fair interview. One thing I disagreed with was Rob's statement that it was threatening to a lot of people that a black man can be president. Many people didn't vote for Obama because 1) They never vote Democrat, and 2) Obama was way too progressive.
Great discussion Phil.
Christian nationalism is a term that has been talked about recently and in my opinion it’s just a way to get opposing sides to attack Christians. I go to church regularly and visit different churches, and I have never seen any examples of Christian nationalism. The people who are accusing Christians of being Christian nationalist in my opinion are people who don’t attend church at all because they’re not seeing from the other side. But there’s nothing wrong with being patriotic, as well as being a Christian. Patriotism was once a virtue that was looked on admirably in this country, but now with all the anti-America hate it’s simply become a word that equates you with a far right radical.
How can i listen to the whole episode? I see the link in the show notes, but once I'm there, nothing is active. I can look at the menu but it doesn't work
Why are we only seeing 10 minutes and not the whole podcast😢
We're making a switch on how we use UA-cam. Find out more here www.holypost.com/post/youtube-update
@@HolyPost I read the link. It grieves me that I cannot afford to join patron due to my physical disabilities growing so severe that (pathetically & only with Christ can I bare the humility ); my adult children are paying my rent until social security comes thru. I can't ask them for one dime that's not an absolute necc. Do you allow any acceptions? H.P. is the only s.m. content I care about enough to even ask.
@@HolyPost
gonna miss your face Phil 😔
@@Anabee3if you have access to any podcast service, you can still listen to the entire episode for free. Spotify, Apple, etc. The change is just for UA-cam.
@@HolyPost Odd choice. Most people just make a separate "clips channel." Putting the full show behind the paywall feels like you're giving a lot of us casual fans the shaft.
He would be amazed how many people need to be told that killing, stealing, and adultery is against God and wrong. The law is our school master. Christ is the fulfillment of what that law calls for to bring us back to the God that we offended.
no such thing as christian nationalism
Agreed. Two words that conflict. No harmony. Warring each other. Sad
Great discussion. Looking forward to seeing 'God & Country'
VOTE OUT MAGA/KKK NATIONWIDE, VOTE BIDEN 2024 💙💙💙💙💙
"You cant have an abortion because my faith forbids it."
"Well, my faith allows it. So, by your logic, you now have to get one."
Well, not exactly. “Well, my faith allows it” would logically mean you’re allowed to get one, not that you’re obligated to get one.
@@Wren_Farthing perhaps, but this joke was more about forcing beliefs on another. Forgive the clunkiness, I was trying to be brief.
@@AresAlpha I hear you!
To the atheist there is no objective morality (only subjective making life meaningless). When you say that what Hitler did was wrong then you must steal objective morality from God through the Ten Commandments. God gave us innate value with a moral conscience/compass to guide us what is objectively wrong.
Creator of my most favorite movie of all time! Inconceivable thats he is on here. I do appreciate Rob's comments concerning Christ and Christianity. Wish he'd turn his life toward Him and acknowledge Him as the Messiah.
He sets up a catch 22. He says “ of course you should vote your beliefs “, but if your vote results in the codifying of a law into the code than you are forcing someone else who voted the other way to comply by government force. He seems to be confused.
Pick one:
A) "Hey God, I made illegal such things as cigarettes, booze, drugs, porn, abortion and profanity... and with great strength, swift judgement and no mercy I rounded up all of the violators and punished them by putting them in prison... I do this for you."
B) "Hey God, I choose NOT to smoke, drink, do drugs, watch porn, opt for abortion, or cuss because... well... none of these things help or reflect my growing faith and trust in you. I choose to always act with kindness, patience and encouragement... and while standing graciously firm in what I believe, I respect (and will not impose upon) the right of others to choose their own path, as you have allowed from the beginning... I do this for you."
B!! This is beautiful
The words of Jesus don’t matter much until you begin to know the man who said them. It’s not the word but the spirit and the Son of Man who died and rose again that gives life to those teachings and those words. No one can live up to the teachings of Jesus Christ except Jesus Christ and that is why the faith relationship in Christ and the teaching of rebirth is so important.
I am a miserable person with so many personal issues and failures and sin. I am always inspired by people who also have personal struggles and are humble and who embrace Jesus Christ as their Lord. I think a lot of people cringe when they hear that term Lord. I think a lot of people cringe when you talk about Jesus and faith and salvation and sin and hope and hell. The thing is that these things are very real. They are as real as pain and death. If you want hope then read the gospels and pray to God. If you are sincere I think God will honor your prayers and do something very significant in your life.
If "All In The Family" were remade today. Rob Reiner could play Archie Bunker now that he's older, LOL
Even the way you speak. You don’t want people forced. You just want people to believe what you believe, or you’re wrong.
Can you post the link to the movie or info about where to see it?
7:37-47 Rob Reiner is really nice about the pro-life position here- something I wouldn't have expected from his Twitter page in all honesty, but I really dislike "I don't like abortion but I won't force that onto others."
If something is immoral, it's not okay for anyone.
"I don't like child/spouse abuse, but I won't force that onto others."
"I don't like school shootings, but I won't force that onto others."
So on and so forth. If you don't like abortion, you wouldn't want children to be aborted, regardless of if they are yours or not.
AMEN TO THAT! Logic dictates...
Not good comparisons since the abortion topic is more loaded than that. Abortion includes for medical concerns as well such as miscarriages and the baby dying inside of the wound.
@@jhuh24 Pro-lifers tend to believe in medical exceptions. In fact, ectopic pregnancy is not considered an abortion- for example.
A person who has this stance is saying they wouldn't abort for financial reasons or rape or personal connivence, but they wouldn't stop someone else for doing that.
@zacharysiple629
You are taught, in church, that the rights of personhood begin at conception... even though the bible does not specifically make any such claim.
Most other people, when thinking about abortion, are instead concerned with pragmatic reduction of suffering.
@@canwelook I never said anything about personhood.
Great snippet! Headed to the website to listen to the rest...
I think Rob Reiner's statement is not clear. I believe a better statement would be that he does not believe in medically unnecessary abortions. Abortion is a medical procedure. Women and her doctor need to make decisions in medically necessary abortions. Choosing to abort in heathy situations can be a morally religious debate. Please vote.
Very well stated
@kaycocco9867
I'm wondering if there is any nuance to your abortion views, apart from medical. No-one would deny your right to make moral choices for yourself. But what about when imposing those moral choices on others through the law?
Eg
1. At conception there is nothing except a single cell. Is it murder, in your view, if that cell is intentionally flushed out medically? If so, how many years should the woman, her partner and anyone else involved receive as punishment? If no, then at what point of ongoing division of those cells is it sufficient to invoke murder penalties? And if you are not invoking murder penalties, why not?
2. Should a foetus have MORE rights than a young child? E.g. The foetus requires the mother's bodily fluids to survive and thrive. You say that the woman cannot reject provision of those bodily fluids. So if a young child similarly requires bodily fluids from a parent to survive and thrive (eg blood transfusions) then should parents be forced to connect themselves up to provide those fluids, indefinitely and whenever required? Or can they choose not to?
Great discussion!
My rule for politics is to vote for the least evil candidate.
But many in the Christian cult vote Republican, which is disgusting.
Yes Trump and his followers are Anti Christ!
Nice discussion! We’re growing up 😊 !
Abortion is nowhere near the top of my issues list. Women will get abortions regardless of what the law says. If is an all powerful god (or gods) that disagrees so much with abortion, let him (or them) step in and stop them, or deal with it in the afterlife.
They are politicizing this the government does not have the right to dictate my personal life it is between God and I.
A lot of people would benefit from forgetting everything they learned about Christianity, turning off the news and commentary, scrubbing their brain with soap, and then just go through the 4 gospels and write down everything Jesus told you to do. And then go back to studying the rest of the Bible.
I think they could benefit far more from reading fiction/literature and philosophy. Maybe look into art and artists. And just living life!
Ironically atheists as a group consistently score higher on religious knowledge tests than Christians.
A common theme among atheists is that studying the bible is what converted them to becoming an atheist.
Vote for who you want to vote just don’t force us to vote for who you want to vote. Is basically what Reiner is trying to say here. As for abortion, unless you are actually willing to help a woman that you impregnate and she gave the consent to but out of her life. It’s not like you’re going to help raise the kid especially when all you are is a complete stranger. And have no personal relationship with them.
Jesus said the path to glory in heaven is to sell all your possessions, give the money to the poor, and follow him (Matthew 19:21)
Why do Christians ignore this clear directive from Jesus? Why are Christians not voting instead for social welfare programs that support the poor, like Jesus said to? This would be a practical measure which would reduce abortions by mothers who can see they cannot support their existing children let alone support a new one.
@@canwelook that maybe so but something tells me you have not seen the movie spotlight. And i only mentioned women here. Until you’ve seen the movie spotlight that is actually based on a true story all over the world don’t give me what Jesus says here. Bc even religious people take advantage of what Jesus does say to do. And trust me you won’t believe what disgusting things these religious ppl are willing to do.
@Holy Post I did find it a little inaccurate that Rob resonates with the teachings of Jesus… probably except his teaching that he is the Son of God and died for all our sins
REINER would have been better off a SILENT partner. Only AFTER the movie had played should he have come forward. Whatever the case, GOOD luck w/ the documentary.
Religious extremism is on the way out, and atheism is growing faster than ever. That's the best thing happening in the world today. Religion isn't all bad, but it's mostly bad. This channel is the only place where I have seen Christians talking rationally. Keep up the good work.
I disagree vehemently. When any person goes to the ballot box and uses their faith to decide to vote remove a freedom from the general public, that is a vote in the hopes of being able to force someone’s else into the submission of the voters faith. Have a strongly held belief, as is your right. Practice that belief in your life, as is your right. Teach that faith to your children, as is your right. Congregate with others who share that belief, as is your right. But when you vote, your vote should seek to not only protect you and your rights but the rights of other people as well; even those people you disagree with.
What if you believe your vote impacts the people you disagree with in a positive way?
Can I have an example?
Wow , wow what teuth and straight from the Bible and Paul.. and Jesus too. If you love your neighbor then all commandements are covered .. Truth
2 Commanents I give you, Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and might and Love your neighbor as yourself.. all summed up so correctly in the freedom we get when we believe in Jesus..
Hello all just wondering how do people rationalize the peaceful loving JC with Matthew 10:34 - Luke 14:26
Phil's eyebrow celebration at 10:36 🤣
That's where half of the acting in Veggie Tales came from--the eyebrows! 😂
"Love your neighbor as yourself." Leviticus 19:18.
Another thoughtful discussion , thanks. Isn’t the issue about whether the government/ legal system should continue to enforce white Christian religious beliefs on an increasingly diverse society that doesn’t want that? If you have an objection to abortion, then don’t get one. If you think LBGTQ is sinful, don’t do that, minding your own business.
Christians wonder why people are leaving Christianity in droves. The Christian share of the population drops by about 1% every year.
And these persistent attempts to impose their morality on other people (instead of managing their own moral behaviour) is a key reason.
7:14-19 Considering that Rob Reiner is a pro-choice atheist, I'm very happy to see him point that out.
Yet he does not seek to impose that personal moral choice onto others through the law.
I'm looking forward to viewing this movie more than I did viewing " The Passion of the Christ".
Nobody on here this video is asking the tough questions that get to the heart of the issues. Nobody. Just dancing around and around.
Why would abortion be “a tough decision” if it isn’t an unborn human? Wouldn’t it be akin to having a mole removed?
Jesus said slaves obay your masters even the cruel ones .Christianity does not hold the moral high ground
Rob said you can't "make" someone vote/believe like you, etc...But, that goes back to Phil's LGBTQ question when conservative folks feel "made" to act, work, etc...a certain way because of someone else's beliefs. Acting out of "religious" principle is inescapable.
Anyone who uses the expression, " the teachings of Jesus" does not understand Christianity.
Rob is doing his darndest, and is trying to be fair. But " love your neighbor as yourself" is not only Jewish in origin, it's also universal. So where is the objection? This is never really clarifed.
The separation of church and state. Thats the bottom line. Theocracys blow. Keep your religious views away from my government.
YES! But we know the Christian cult loves to spew their lies and hate and screw up our government!
YES! But we know the Christian cult loves to spew their lies and hate and screw up our government!
@@Ex_christianGovernment was founded on God (the one true God, one true religion, the eyewitness testimonies of Christ). Every form of American currency says “in God we trust.” Plus license plates say that. Romans 1:20-21 No one is without excuse for not knowing God (the sky and creation testifies for a creator). Also, “Separation of church and state” was to convey religious freedom, so the government does not interfere with Christianity.
@@silasbucur685 and it’s obvious you follow the Malevolent war god of Abraham who committed Genocide, allows Murder, Rape, Incest, etc. all in his name! Why would any person want to follow an evil god that needs us to worship his pathetic being?
"The Bible doesn't mention "abortion".🙄 Mmm.hmmm... Just like many other terms that were not terms at that time. So...correct! HOWEVER: its GLARINGLY OBVIOUS by reading all related Biblical verse that God commands us to not kill babies-incldg those he is currently knitting in the womb. (Logic dictates...)
Also, NO ONE separates their ethics from politics. And for us (genuine) Christians: Its not even about what WE believe, it's about what GOD believes & being faithful to him & his commandments: not leaning on our own understanding. As KAITLYN once pointed out: (slightly paraphrased)- "God created us & the world we live in. Therefore, HE knows the best way for us to live as fallen ppl in this fallen world."
Nowhere in the Bible does it say "Brush your teeth atleast 2ce per day" either, but we can read other scripture that tells us we are to take care of ourselves, incldg our physical selves& put 2-n-2 together. Im disappointed Rob used that ridic trope, further confirming that High I.Q is not synonymous with WISDOM.
I DO agree that the Trumpy approaches & reactions are anti-Christ, tho.THAT'S glaringly obvious, too. No ifs, ands, or but's.
10:12
Finally, the real meat of the issue (about abortion rights vs faith).
--
Rob says voting to outlaw abortion is *not* an attempt to force an anti-abortion belief onto others.
But of course it is.
Because by voting to outlaw or greatly restrict abortion based on the voting-person's religious (or "spiritual") beliefs,
the voting-person is trying to create a situation where:
Someone who wants a legal and safe abortion has no access to it
because of legal *force* being used to shut down all such access.
Moreover, we're talking about force backup by literal guns, night-sticks, tasers, etc,
along with the equally-immediate threat of prison (or worse)).
Additionally,
if someone attempts to have (or assist, or provide) an abortion in violation of that law (a law voted into law by Christians and for religious reasons), then:
they attempt that under threat of being arrested (at gun point) and thrown into a prison cell (and/or executed).
Why is this so difficult for Christians to understand?
Every vote cast
in any attempt to create or perpetuate any criminal law, ...
is always and automatically an attempt to mobilize violent force, as a means to force compliance (with those laws) into others.
Voting for any criminal law
means voting for enforcement OF that law via threat of physical violence.
That includes the immediate violence of the police-threat itself,
and then the violence of an arrest,
and then the follow-up violence in prison,
and the fatal violence that happens at a person's execution (in case such a law goes far; which some would), etc.
We must also consider the violent consequences to the larger family OF the arrested persons.
Remember. "Violence" isn't always a matter of sudden kinetic energy directly traumatizing soft-tissues.
Violence is any act or choice which predictably results in any form of trauma (physical, psychological, or emotional).
We must also consider the violent consequences to any later-formed children that are forced into existence under parent(s) who knew during the first trimester that they wouldn't be able to provide for all that future-child's needs.
We must also consider the violent consequences to pregnant women (and tiny, underage girls, age 8-teens) per the danger to their own lives when forced to carry non-viable pregnancies, and/or forced to carry a pregnancy to term after being told by a qualified physician that said pregnancy would likely result in their own death.
All of that is, by definition,
unavoidably,
inarguably.,
an attempt to mobilize a government's physical force and threat of violence
to impose that law onto others.
And to whatever extent it causes physical and/or psychological trauma (either directly or as a predictable result) it is actively committing violence against any citizens whom would suffer those consequences.
Additionally, voting to ban or greatly-restrict access to legal and safe abortions
results (inevitably) in a sharp rise in fatalities from young girls and women utilizing illegal abortions and self-administered abortions.
All the while, the very act of fighting or voting to criminalize access to abortions is a direct and blatant violation of the "moral principal of free will" that Christians claim to prioritize.
How much sense does it really make(?) for a religious person to argue that "the reason" their GOD allows so much suffering in our world, and so then "the reason" he doesn't interfere by means of any force whatsoever, is that:
HE prioritizes "Free Will" (for this world) OVER that of His own will, because "reasons".
- Reasons like:
"He wants to prove how badly things go for humans when they don't fully surrender to his will and moral-laws".
But then the very same religious people argue that GOD sent THEM to FORCE moral-compliance (with some cherry-picked issues) over people who aren't in his "one true religion" (or. "one true "totally not a religion")?
If your GOD wants YOU to force compliance with some moral-laws, then why not for ALL moral-laws?
And if he's cool with you acting AS HIS HANDS in this world, to weaponize a government against citizens who don't share your views and values, to FORCE compliance with his moral laws,
then:
How can that claim be harmonized with the claim that he's letting "this wicked world" do whatever it wants, without him interfering, because "reasons"?
He's either for OR against enforcing moral-law-compliance against "the world".
Which is it?
Meanwhile, if a 1st-trimester fetus is "a person" with "a soul", then what happens to them when they "die"?
If they go straight to heaven forever, isn't that more preferable than being later-born onto an Earthly-life?
"Down here", their ODDS of avoiding "eternal damnation" are super-BAD once they reach some "age of accountability".
And that's compared to 100%-assured if they are aborted. Right?
Whereas, if you say you don't know IF those "babies" end up in a HELL, then that's the same as saying you don't know IF your God is super-evil or not.
And you don't really have the luxury of saying you "don't know what your God would do" if the REASON you are a Christian is because you're impressed by EXACTLY what that proposed-Entity's moral values are.
Whereas, if you entertain hypotheticals which avoid both outcomes, like saying "maybe they get born to other parents later instead", then wouldn't that mean they aren't "dying" but are merely being relocated?
For being part of a larger "church" of deep-thinkers, who are "spirit led" (by a perfect omni-everything BEING) into all (necessary) understanding,
and who have had THOUSANDS OF YEARS to hash all of it out (philosophically and morally),
I remain impressed by how much the whole lot of you haven't really 'thought it through'.
Don't Murder Your Children.
Yet the god of the Bible doesn’t have a problem with it……
@@Ex_christianYou must follow Molech the god of the pagans if you believe in child sacrifice my man.
Sorry...if you don't have a uterus, you don't get to tell any pregnant person what to do with their body. Period. I will not be engaging in any comments that follow under mine. Yes, I'm a Christian--Cradle Catholic, in fact.
What if the man wants to keep it but the woman doesn't?
Well that’s a shame you don’t want to defend your statement since most of us are hear to listen, dialogue, learn, and share. Don’t throw your gauntlet down and walk away. I have a uterus but guess what? It’s not about me as the possessor of the uterus but about God Almighty who is the actual Creator of the uterus. He created it and therefore gets to decide what is done with it. Period. And because He is God Almighty He can bring any woman through the most harrowing of circumstances when she trusts in Him 🙏🏾
We have all kinds of laws about what you can do with your body - tattoo laws ... drug laws .... we even throw people into a psych ward if they try to harm themselves. Gender has nothing to do with it. It's about what we deem acceptable as a society.
Well I guess woman should never have a male doctor 🙄
How can I be removed from this mythological cult group?
9:49 I would phrase that as: "You can have a Christian reason for being pro-life, but in terms of politics, you should focus on the secular reasons for being pro-life." (IE Life begins at conception.)
Right, the secular reasoning is why personally, even as a believer in christ, I look at the 20-24 week mark as the parts of the brain that gives the spark of sentience, humanity, is about that point. I can't think of secular reasoning before that. Then after that we have ways that we can preserve the life of the child and you can't do anything but those period.
There are no objective secular reasons for being prolife. Secular sources can only tell you when human life begins... No objective reasons why that human being is valuable..
@amritaasher3855
Your use of the word secular seems misplaced. Did you mean scientific? Wants, desires, preferences, and matters of morality are by their nature subjective, and never objective... for both the religious and the secular.
@@canwelook there's an objective reason why human beings are valuable in judeo Christian worldview.. that human beings are created in the image of God.. take away judeo Christian worldview, no such objective reason remains.. what remains are subjective preferences.. this is why I feel pro life causes are doomed.. Christian pro lifers assume sanctity of human life, which doesn't really make sense in a post Christian world! Secular prolifers also assume sanctity of human life, but are unable to give a reason for that!
BTW, I meant secular in its most primitive meaning: without religion..
@@canwelook Sure, I guess scientific would be a more appropriate word.
Rob R. "Of course its not wrong to vote your belief'. "You just can't force someone to have those beliefs".
Rob, how do I vote my belief on abortion without forcing someone to have that belief? The only way I can "vote my belief" on abortion would be to vote for someone who wants to ban abortion. And by doing that it would be forcing someone to have that belief (or at least abide by that belief). So in essence it leaves pro-life Christians in a catch 22. I also question if he really hates abortion because if you really hate something, you want it to stop.
Rob's statements are contradictory. The whole idea of fighting for for your political beliefs is to enact those ideas. You cannot fight for your beliefs without forcing them on someone.
Other people don't believe unborn babies have personhood. So yes, you are forcing your beliefs on others.
@@ohyeah3365 explain to me how I can vote my belief that abortion is murder without forcing it on someone then.
@@ohyeah3365 Thanks for proving the point.
You are ultimately stating that if Christians consider abortion killing an innocent human (the most scientifically appropriate description, BTW) they cannot enact governmental policy by way of their vote and political support to limit and severely restrict it.
That is precisely the double standard Phil brings up.
You can vote against abortion but that doesn't force anyone to accept your worldview. They will still believe abortion is fine. The problem is that the vast majority of the country supports abortion but it is being made illegal by a minority.
God put a tree in the garden that brought death and destruction to everyone. I think we can handle abortion being legal and worry more about removing the reasons people seek one out. The church is not absolved by criminalizing abortion. The church will be absolved when they actually take care of mothers and children.
About 3/4th of abortions are financially motivated. The US is the only wealthy country where a single mother is more likely to be poor.
@@ohyeah3365 All laws are a means of forcing the belief of the majority on others. If Bob thinks he should be able to drive any speed he likes on the interstate but the rest of us believe there should be limits, posting speed limits is forcing our belief on Bob. Yet there is nothing wrong with doing that. Because we all agree Bob is a reckless idiot.
I worked for the government near Atlantic City and never saw such undercutting, gaslighting, abuse, and poor quality control as in this technical center known locally as a country club.
The jingoism, conflation of personal ambitions with the "mission", and tribal thinking / group think was childish and selfish.
Many of know the problem is less with religion and more with the worship of a systen which justifies privilege and conflates patriotism with themselves.
Phil, those weren't really hard questions, it would have been better if you would have probed a but more.
Ok...
I’m starting with the man in the mirror, then moving on to aid the least of these, to imagining all the people sharing all the world and being the change you wish to see, to live simply, so others can simply live, as darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that, Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that... so i’m...
Pro💜Love
👣🕊👽
If you wanted to speak to conservative Christians, then partnering with Rob Reiner was a very dumb choice. Was Rachel Maddow not available lol?
Very good discussion
What film were you referring to?
"God and Country" an upcoming documentary about Christian Nationalism
You have a right to your beliefs, but the right is limited because of our secular form of government and you need to understand that. If you don't like our Constitution or or our form of democracy, you might consider moving to another country aligned with your beliefs.
Opposing the use of force is libertarianism. Rob Reiner sounds a lot like a libertarian in this video.
Hollywood does not speak for me 🇺🇲 my family or my community.
Make your movies; we just might pay to see them.
A movie about god in this country .I want to see how much religion is in this country in 10 yrs
Who cares what he thinks? He thinks he’s important. If his father didn’t sell his tv series idea to Calvada Productions nobody would know who his son Robby was.
He didn’t write, create, or produce All in the Family.
The door opened to him.
Have you read the entire Bible?
Almost all Christian’s lack in this. They only know what they are told on Sundays…….
@@Ex_christian I have read it numerous times in Spanish and English. It's their job to answer. If they haven't even read the entire Bible, they should shut up.
@@EnthusiasticTent-xt8fh that’s the problem! MOST in the Christian cult have NEVER read the Bible! If they did, they wouldn’t be in the Christian cult!
You have the Malevolent war god of Abraham who committed Genocide, allows Murder, Rape, Incest, etc. all in his name! That IS the god of the Bible!
@@EnthusiasticTent-xt8fh the Bible shows the Malevolent war god of Abraham who committed Genocide, allows Murder, Rape, Incest, etc. all in his name! Doesn’t look like a loving god to me!
@@EnthusiasticTent-xt8fhreading it and understanding it are two very different things.
I'm glad this conversation happened, but I think there was a missed opportunity to have an honest conversation about how members of the left try to force others to adopt their beliefs on transgenderism and homosexuality, for example. Anyone who respectfully expresses opposition to their viewpoint is labeled as trans/homophobic and no further discourse is allowed. This approach should not be acceptable from either side.
I think a key part of the question is, How does your opposition play out? “They can’t have the same rights as me because I object” is infringing on them. “I don’t want to see them” (i.e., I want them out of sight, out of mind) is infringing on them.
If we agree that LGBT folks have equal rights, then we’re on the same page. What avenues for opposition are you thinking of?
The best way to prevent self-harm among members of the LGBTQ community is for them to be affirmed as fellow human beings and not have much of society condemn their existence as being inherently sinful.
If maintaining your beliefs is more important to you than keeping them safe, then I don't know what to tell you.
Bro calls speaking up, out, and against certain things is wrong
On this part where abortion isn't in the Bible I don't know if it is or isn't. But if God did make life why would he want you to take life it doesn't make any sense to me. And there is The ten commandments which says do not kill ect.
It is read Numbers 5:11-31.
Is it me or is the interviewer an ogre?
A defacto abortion IS mentioned in the Bible. See Numbers 5:11.
Amen.
Ok to vote your belief? Well if enough share your belief you can now force others to follow your belief under threat of law. I reject that and will fight oppression be it de jure or de facto. If your God is as in control as you say, then let God sort it out. And when you die, head on off to pasture under His will. People who fail to convince so decide to command must be opposed at all costs.
elementary,...simply vote the bible. never vote for the days' "trash" trends. religion slays politics, every time.
Hosea 13:16
Why is abortion such an issue for Americans? Why do you insist that to be a Christian you must also be against abortion? In most civilized countries abortion is just another medical procedure, not to be requested for trivial reasons and only carried out if medically necessary. I’ve spoken to a few people who have this American mindset and they are frighteningly fixated on it, incapable of holding a reasoned conversation about it. Why?
They have been conditioned to care about it at the expense of everything else by years of propaganda.
Christians obey God. And God is pro-life. Furthermore...the modern day abortion fight is actually about men and women who want to preserve a promiscuous lifestyle and avoid the consequences of their promiscuity. As Christians, did God tell us to support promiscuity ? No.
@@markanthony3275 promiscuity has always been a thing. Why wasn't abortion prohibited in Scripture? If it was that important, surely God would've made it a command.
@@averageuser4367 God did more than prohibit abortion in the Bible...He prohibited the refusal of a man to create offspring for his dead brother through his dead brother's wife . And God put Onan to death because the continuation of life was that important. If the continuation of life and family was that important , then would God be against the ending of life and family through abortion? Absolutely! Some things don't have to be a written command to be God's will.
The “Didache” although not Cannon is a first century guide for Christian discipleship. It outright condemns not only abortion but those who facilitate it.
@brentmiller,ur not my master,this is America and Im aChristian and im not obeying my slave master.Ilearned to fight back.
So if I don't force my beliefs on others aka anti abortion you are okay with me. But I am "forced" to pay for something, aka abotion, something I do not believe in and I should just shut up about that. Always Hypocrisy.
Instead of worrying about that, maybe we should work toward a society that renders abortion obsolete.
You aren't forced to pay for abortions. There is more than enough money from the people who support abortions to pay in the rare cases where the government pays.
I thought the trailer looked really good.
This is Anti-Christian
Rob Reiner is so disingenuous.
ABORTION is murder !
Who Says 🤔
GOD THATS WHO..
ISAIAH 📜 CHAPTER 44 VERSE 24...
🌿🌺📜📖🌺🌿
ASK YOUR PHONE OR COMPUTER FOR THESE KING JAMES GOSPEL SCRIPTURES AND MAY GOD BLESS YOU BOUNTIFULLY FOR READING GOD'S HOLY WORD
"Abortion isn't even mentioned in the bible". How about though shall not murder?
Bro never read: Psalm 139:13-16 For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.
Or:
Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations."
Or:
Romans 1:28-32 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, !murder!, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
Or:
Proverbs 6:16-19 There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.
@@silasbucur685 That doesn't say that abortion is a sin. It just one guy saying God was responsible for his birth and praising God for it.
That would work, if you could then find the part of the Bible that says abortion is murder.
But, the reality is that the only place killing a fetus is mentioned, God says you can pay some money to deal with it. Not be executed like you would for a murder.
There's a reason why Christians before the 1960s all disagreed about abortion. There were pro-choice Baptists, even. If it was in the Bible, it would have been clearly wrong from the get-go.
@@turkeypedal If you are saying it was immoral for God to kill people in the Old Testament then how is your moral right of abortion justifiable? (in this way abortion is playing God)
Most are just concentrating on abortion how about all the other sins of Trump?
No brainer, except for zealots.
So meathead -
Should I be forced to take the Covid vaccine to keep my job or obtain medical care?
Can I use discourse to discuss the stolen 2020 election without being banned on social media??
If the 2020 election was stolen, why did Trump lose all but one of his court cases?
If the 2020 election was stolen, why didn't the Democrats steal more Senate seats? They've barely been able to do anything with a 50/50 Senate.
The second question: no. Lying is a sin. And social media is not controlled by the government. Private companies have a right to kick you out.
The first question? Probably not, if you have already had COVID recently enough. But if you haven't, then you are risk to others, and they have a right to protect other workers or other patients.
And it was Archie who called him Meathead. Archie was a bigot. He always learned that "Meathead" was right by the end of the episode.
@@turkeypedalyes, and Rob is a bigot too. The "You missed the point by idolizing them" meme comes to mind.
The 2020 election was not stolen only the Trumpism believes that so sorry for you.
Hey it's "Meathead" from Archie Bunker, LOL
Wow Rob Reiner.... Better known as neat head.😂😂
Rob Reiner? That's like asking the pharisee is Jesus a good guy?😅