The real tragedy is that on paper, Miquella's plan was perfect, it was genuinely born from kind and compassionate intentions, but when he realized he had to sacrifice more to fulfill his goals, he began to abandon everything to resolve himself for his wish. Hhe believed that his dream would remain pure, separate from his actions, but the moment he decided to abandon his flesh, his sacrifices and his resolve, would all be in vain. His connection to the living, the mortal part of his demigod blood, that allowed him to sympathize with others, would be twisted the moment he ascended to godhood, and remained in St. Trina. St. Trina holds the true personality of Miquella, and the one we face at the end is a diety that can no longer comprehend or enact the human kindness he wished to guide the world towards. Just the blinded "compassion" of a god who could no longer understand the human heart. How could a god save something they can't comprehend? It would be a salvation deprived of sympathy. The same kind any other god in the Lands Between would bring. Miquella's wish, would only ever be a contradiction.
no he's not they share zero similarities aside them both possessing charisma. miquella's goals however he achieves them are selfless, he truly grieves for the world and wants to change it for the better meanwhile Griffith is the complete opposite. He's not concerned by anything except his selfish goals of wanting to rule over a kingdom and nothing more
Keep in mind that as a student of Golden Order fundamentalism, Miquella would be deeply familiar with the Law of Causality, which imposes a form of deterministic order upon the world. Going even further, Golden Order fundamentalism was developed in large part by Radagon, who trained in Carian astrology, and so it is highly likely that Miquella was aware that before Radahn came along, the stars had the power to control fate, and even now, fragments of starlight can usurp the will of mortals. He may have been casual about removing free will because he might not have believed free will existed to any significant degree to begin with, and decided that people were better off having their wills steered by a god who loves them rather than far off stars like Astel who don't care one way or the other.
While I compared Miquella to a cult leader in the original base game instead of the outright Antichrist, I was one of the few that wasn't on Team Miquella then. I noticed the holes in the "savior" image Miquella projected, especially when the Bewitching Branch revealed he gained worship through mind control. I feel vindicated.
the lore would of been perfect if godwyn was the promise consort and maybe they used radahns body as the vessel because his ways of war would of went against miquellas peaceful world
I think that the point of Elden Ring is that everyone is trying to become God, but they all eventually fail because... Well they can't. The way they become God is by removing something from the world, Marika removed death, while Miquella wants to remove freedom. God, or the Greater Will, created all these things, so trying to remove them would go against his will. A "proper" God would embrace all things equally, ironically Ranni's ending is closer to this, although I don't like her as a character
I think Miquella's curse of nascency is more than just being young looking forever. A lot of lore analysis type of content creators think it's directly relating to him starting things and never being able to finish them, which directly runs into an unfortunate circumstance considering Malania being cursed by the god of rot. Another thing about this game that is so interesting is the direct comparisons to Christianity so consistently, in regards to Marika more than anyone else. Its a thing that's even more interesting given the Japanese history around Christianity.
Honestly I feel a lot of the connections to western religions (especially Christianity) are more aesthetic than meaningful, to encourage the fantasy vibe, even in Elden Ring. Just because Marika is stated to give "grace" and is crucified doesn't mean she's a stand in for Jesus. Same with the healing church in Bloodborne, etc.
Miquella is both Griffith, and your archtypical Dark Messiah, except instead of wanting to bring about some world of like, fear and death and all that, he wants to bring about peace, love, and order, through basically stripping away free will
I think honestly, the villains and characters in the dlc are some of the best in the game. Miquella is a brilliant villain and so is Messmer. Also, I still think Mohg was a bad guy. His bloody fingers thrive on tormenting other people. He's very much obsessed with power, I think. Technically the most "good" demigod in the game is Morgott, although he is misled. Maybe also Radahn, but he's not really cogniscent at any point during a playthrough. I guess there's also Rennala, because she banned a lot of the inhumane magic practices that turn people into rocks and graven masses, but she's also seen better days. (she's also not a demigod, though)
I've always wanted a explanation as to why our tarnished doesn't kill Rennala like the other holders of the great runes is it because canonically we are always helping ranni ie. Why we're not killing her mother.
@@Hankering5656 Well for starters, she kinda surrenders and gives you her great rune. Phase 2 of the boss fight is just a projection created by Ranni and when you beat that, she realizes that it's pointless resisting.
@@Patrick-bn5rp idk seems to be more I mean our tarnished doesn't really let people live I guess it'd make sense if there was a similar situation but it's only her the entire game you don't spare anyone else
@@creedencequestions It's not a perfect 1 to 1. But the dung eater's quest line is very pro-omen in that he wishes for everyone to become an omen. When the tarnished fulfills this, they're setting up omens as the default/core of the Elden Ring, i.e. omens become the normal state of life, regardless of the nightmares they experience. Mohg also is pro-omen and embraces his omen blood, though he seems to be more in favor of his dynasty assuming political control rather than expanding omen-ness. But the idea of "omens on top" is the same in both cases. Either way, I don't think Mohg should be seen as the inherently "best future" or "salvific path" out of the demigods. He created the bloody fingers and kidnapped the war surgeons, still perpetuating the cycle of violence like all the other demigods.
The first red flag we should have seen was when his name changed from "the Unalloyed" to "the Kind" They turned him into a different character, I'm telling you
@@creedencequestions considering all the things they changed in the lore to make the "promised consort" reveal, I wouldn't be surprised if they changed it
@@genesischaparro8954 The bewitching branch and the kamikaze-ing haligtree soldiers are still in the base game which hinted at Miquella's true nature. But I agree the whole dlc seems a little jolting
You know, people dunk on Miquella and call his methods reprehensible...but how is he doing anything different from what the player is doing? We go around and butcher practically anything and anyone with any sort of authority in the lands between (and most of its wildlife) with nothing but our own lust for power and craving for violence as justification. Hey, if we want we can even curse the land or destroy it altogether on nothing but a whim. Suddenly Miquella taking extreme measures to ensure peace in the land via forcefully pacifying its inhabitants don't seem so "villainous" any longer. I mean Ranni, Miquella's supposed "good" counterpart plans to remove any semblance of order from the Lands Between in the name of "freedom" when this is guaranteed to cause even more chaos and warfare until there's no one left or some other tyrant takes the helm and everything's back at square one.
You seem unaware but "Satan" is a title and used in ways such as "the satan" meaning the opposer, as in a member of the angels that god has taken on this role to give god some pushback
I'm well aware. It seems like you're referring to Heiser's work. This use of Satan is most probable in the book of Job, but Heiser also states that Jesus and the NT writers use 'satan' and 'devil' differently in the NT and it refers to one singular primary adversary, the 'ancient serpent who is the devil and satan' from Revelation who will be cast into the pit at the end of days.
@@creedencequestions tbh I’m just referring to original meaning as written in the scriptures. I would say Christianity just poorly copied, just like how Islam extremely poorly copied because their writer couldnt even read. You’re using Jewish texts, so for understanding those you prob want to ask the Jews
As for methodoly, inventing a hell realm and threatening people with it, doesnt seem to be the ideal, so the search continues No solution can come from gods, as its top down, and does not adress the unique needs of every being that is a product of this pluralist world
it wasn't a hell realm, it was the center of the Lands Between, Marika sent the entire region into the Shadow to hide it and keep her hated enemies suffering forever, it IS a real physical place though, as it lines up perfectly with the map from the Lands between.
Marika's "other half" Radagon was as completely seperate person she fused with try and create the Alchemic Rebis, the Divine Hermaphrodite, wikipedia "Rebis", the problem is that Radagon was no Sulfur, he was Pyrite, fools gold, Miquella does this in reverse, to try and recreate it fully with Radahan, him being the masculine Sulfur
6:48 the problem of evil does not apply to Miquella because he is never claimed to be an all powerful god and he also never created the universe. If the god of the bible is all powerful and it created the universe, then it would not have created one where gratuitous suffering was unavoidable. I think the take away here is that Miquella's kindness is not kindness at all because it comes in the form of compulsory subjugation. Just like how the god of the bible's love is not love at all, because it comes with the threat of eternal torture if denied. If you love someone, you let them go. You don't throw them into a pit of fire. I'd have to say Miquella comes out on top here, at least he doesn't torture us for eternity
I take your point but I still think Miquella shows that the lack of free will is necessary for true life to take place. Free will necessitates both evil and good. As a note, God doesn't torture anyone for eternity, they are disinherited and left to the inheritance of the devil. You can't inherit paradise without understanding it, otherwise it would be completely worthless, and God has presented us with ample evidence to understand and accept his gift.
The real tragedy is that on paper, Miquella's plan was perfect, it was genuinely born from kind and compassionate intentions, but when he realized he had to sacrifice more to fulfill his goals, he began to abandon everything to resolve himself for his wish. Hhe believed that his dream would remain pure, separate from his actions, but the moment he decided to abandon his flesh, his sacrifices and his resolve, would all be in vain.
His connection to the living, the mortal part of his demigod blood, that allowed him to sympathize with others, would be twisted the moment he ascended to godhood, and remained in St. Trina. St. Trina holds the true personality of Miquella, and the one we face at the end is a diety that can no longer comprehend or enact the human kindness he wished to guide the world towards.
Just the blinded "compassion" of a god who could no longer understand the human heart. How could a god save something they can't comprehend? It would be a salvation deprived of sympathy. The same kind any other god in the Lands Between would bring.
Miquella's wish, would only ever be a contradiction.
This was acctualy a great interpretation and a realy cool insight on Miquellas actions
Miquella is basically fromsoft Griffith, as Miyazaki loves berserk references, tho Griffith is effectively the anti-christ of berserk
no he's not they share zero similarities aside them both possessing charisma.
miquella's goals however he achieves them are selfless, he truly grieves for the world and wants to change it for the better meanwhile Griffith is the complete opposite. He's not concerned by anything except his selfish goals of wanting to rule over a kingdom and nothing more
Keep in mind that as a student of Golden Order fundamentalism, Miquella would be deeply familiar with the Law of Causality, which imposes a form of deterministic order upon the world. Going even further, Golden Order fundamentalism was developed in large part by Radagon, who trained in Carian astrology, and so it is highly likely that Miquella was aware that before Radahn came along, the stars had the power to control fate, and even now, fragments of starlight can usurp the will of mortals. He may have been casual about removing free will because he might not have believed free will existed to any significant degree to begin with, and decided that people were better off having their wills steered by a god who loves them rather than far off stars like Astel who don't care one way or the other.
This is an interesting perspective
While I compared Miquella to a cult leader in the original base game instead of the outright Antichrist, I was one of the few that wasn't on Team Miquella then. I noticed the holes in the "savior" image Miquella projected, especially when the Bewitching Branch revealed he gained worship through mind control. I feel vindicated.
the lore would of been perfect if godwyn was the promise consort and maybe they used radahns body as the vessel because his ways of war would of went against miquellas peaceful world
I think that the point of Elden Ring is that everyone is trying to become God, but they all eventually fail because... Well they can't. The way they become God is by removing something from the world, Marika removed death, while Miquella wants to remove freedom. God, or the Greater Will, created all these things, so trying to remove them would go against his will. A "proper" God would embrace all things equally, ironically Ranni's ending is closer to this, although I don't like her as a character
I think Miquella's curse of nascency is more than just being young looking forever. A lot of lore analysis type of content creators think it's directly relating to him starting things and never being able to finish them, which directly runs into an unfortunate circumstance considering Malania being cursed by the god of rot. Another thing about this game that is so interesting is the direct comparisons to Christianity so consistently, in regards to Marika more than anyone else. Its a thing that's even more interesting given the Japanese history around Christianity.
Honestly I feel a lot of the connections to western religions (especially Christianity) are more aesthetic than meaningful, to encourage the fantasy vibe, even in Elden Ring. Just because Marika is stated to give "grace" and is crucified doesn't mean she's a stand in for Jesus. Same with the healing church in Bloodborne, etc.
Miquella is both Griffith, and your archtypical Dark Messiah, except instead of wanting to bring about some world of like, fear and death and all that, he wants to bring about peace, love, and order, through basically stripping away free will
miquella the glorious would never do such things!
You mean Miquella the Mohglester?
I think honestly, the villains and characters in the dlc are some of the best in the game. Miquella is a brilliant villain and so is Messmer.
Also, I still think Mohg was a bad guy. His bloody fingers thrive on tormenting other people. He's very much obsessed with power, I think. Technically the most "good" demigod in the game is Morgott, although he is misled. Maybe also Radahn, but he's not really cogniscent at any point during a playthrough. I guess there's also Rennala, because she banned a lot of the inhumane magic practices that turn people into rocks and graven masses, but she's also seen better days. (she's also not a demigod, though)
I've always wanted a explanation as to why our tarnished doesn't kill Rennala like the other holders of the great runes is it because canonically we are always helping ranni ie. Why we're not killing her mother.
@@Hankering5656 Well for starters, she kinda surrenders and gives you her great rune. Phase 2 of the boss fight is just a projection created by Ranni and when you beat that, she realizes that it's pointless resisting.
@@Patrick-bn5rp idk seems to be more I mean our tarnished doesn't really let people live I guess it'd make sense if there was a similar situation but it's only her the entire game you don't spare anyone else
@@Hankering5656 To be fair, Renalla is also the only boss that kinda gives up. Though I agree it could have been portrayed in a more clear manner.
I definitely think Melina is the one true good aligned character in the game
Mohg’s ending is already in the game as the dung eater questline
Hmm how do you consider DE's ending to be Mohgs?
@@creedencequestions It's not a perfect 1 to 1. But the dung eater's quest line is very pro-omen in that he wishes for everyone to become an omen. When the tarnished fulfills this, they're setting up omens as the default/core of the Elden Ring, i.e. omens become the normal state of life, regardless of the nightmares they experience. Mohg also is pro-omen and embraces his omen blood, though he seems to be more in favor of his dynasty assuming political control rather than expanding omen-ness. But the idea of "omens on top" is the same in both cases.
Either way, I don't think Mohg should be seen as the inherently "best future" or "salvific path" out of the demigods. He created the bloody fingers and kidnapped the war surgeons, still perpetuating the cycle of violence like all the other demigods.
The first red flag we should have seen was when his name changed from "the Unalloyed" to "the Kind"
They turned him into a different character, I'm telling you
I thought of this, do you think they mistakenly changed from unalloyed or did miquella intentionally change his title to 'kind'
@@creedencequestions considering all the things they changed in the lore to make the "promised consort" reveal, I wouldn't be surprised if they changed it
@@genesischaparro8954 The bewitching branch and the kamikaze-ing haligtree soldiers are still in the base game which hinted at Miquella's true nature. But I agree the whole dlc seems a little jolting
You know, people dunk on Miquella and call his methods reprehensible...but how is he doing anything different from what the player is doing? We go around and butcher practically anything and anyone with any sort of authority in the lands between (and most of its wildlife) with nothing but our own lust for power and craving for violence as justification. Hey, if we want we can even curse the land or destroy it altogether on nothing but a whim. Suddenly Miquella taking extreme measures to ensure peace in the land via forcefully pacifying its inhabitants don't seem so "villainous" any longer. I mean Ranni, Miquella's supposed "good" counterpart plans to remove any semblance of order from the Lands Between in the name of "freedom" when this is guaranteed to cause even more chaos and warfare until there's no one left or some other tyrant takes the helm and everything's back at square one.
You seem unaware but "Satan" is a title and used in ways such as "the satan" meaning the opposer, as in a member of the angels that god has taken on this role to give god some pushback
I'm well aware. It seems like you're referring to Heiser's work. This use of Satan is most probable in the book of Job, but Heiser also states that Jesus and the NT writers use 'satan' and 'devil' differently in the NT and it refers to one singular primary adversary, the 'ancient serpent who is the devil and satan' from Revelation who will be cast into the pit at the end of days.
@@creedencequestions tbh I’m just referring to original meaning as written in the scriptures. I would say Christianity just poorly copied, just like how Islam extremely poorly copied because their writer couldnt even read. You’re using Jewish texts, so for understanding those you prob want to ask the Jews
As for methodoly, inventing a hell realm and threatening people with it, doesnt seem to be the ideal, so the search continues
No solution can come from gods, as its top down, and does not adress the unique needs of every being that is a product of this pluralist world
it wasn't a hell realm, it was the center of the Lands Between, Marika sent the entire region into the Shadow to hide it and keep her hated enemies suffering forever, it IS a real physical place though, as it lines up perfectly with the map from the Lands between.
@@keithfilibeck2390 i was talking about Jesus
Everything comes from God technically. If we create a problem, we can't create the solution.
Not sure if I'm understanding your objection fully
@@creedencequestions "god" created diffrence, but expects uniformity, which obviously wont lead to salvation for all
He the anti Christ of Elden Ring
Marika's "other half" Radagon was as completely seperate person she fused with try and create the Alchemic Rebis, the Divine Hermaphrodite, wikipedia "Rebis", the problem is that Radagon was no Sulfur, he was Pyrite, fools gold, Miquella does this in reverse, to try and recreate it fully with Radahan, him being the masculine Sulfur
This is a great note and topic for discussion
I thought wed get a miquella ending like ranni but it wasn't to be
Take it back! He is God!
6:48 the problem of evil does not apply to Miquella because he is never claimed to be an all powerful god and he also never created the universe. If the god of the bible is all powerful and it created the universe, then it would not have created one where gratuitous suffering was unavoidable. I think the take away here is that Miquella's kindness is not kindness at all because it comes in the form of compulsory subjugation. Just like how the god of the bible's love is not love at all, because it comes with the threat of eternal torture if denied. If you love someone, you let them go. You don't throw them into a pit of fire. I'd have to say Miquella comes out on top here, at least he doesn't torture us for eternity
I take your point but I still think Miquella shows that the lack of free will is necessary for true life to take place. Free will necessitates both evil and good.
As a note, God doesn't torture anyone for eternity, they are disinherited and left to the inheritance of the devil. You can't inherit paradise without understanding it, otherwise it would be completely worthless, and God has presented us with ample evidence to understand and accept his gift.