My dad bought one acre of land in Arizona in the 60's, but we lived in Texas so he never visited it after initially buying it. The taxes weren't much each year, so he paid it thinking he might sell it at a profit later. One year the tax bill never showed up. Dad contacted the tax agency and they said a developer owned the land. So, dad hired a lawyer in Phoenix to check up on it. The developer had bought all the land around it, but claimed he couldn't get ahold of my dad to buy the acre, so he just built on it like it was his. There was 3 brand new homes sitting on that acre and a judge put a hold on the sale of them until this got straightened out. Dad wound up with the land and homes, which he sold to the developer at less than market value just to be done with it. After it was all said and done dad had enough to buy some lakefront property outside of Dallas and build a home. That's where my brothers and I grew up!
Unfortunately developers have gained a lot of power since the 60’s. Regular Joe’s like us can no longer win against crooked developers. Those developers have now bought judges and politicians. We need to go back to the tax structure of the 1960’s for a better and fairer economy.
he was lucky to have gotten anything. many states have what is called adverse possession To make a successful claim for adverse possession in Arizona, a squatter must fulfill one of the following as per Arizona adverse possession laws (ARS § 12-522 - 12-526): Live in the property as a trespasser for two years (§ 12-522) Live in the property and have color of title for three years (§ 12-523
They should have thought about how expensive to remove these when they erected them in the beginning without proper land management permitting and/or approval. I hope the American taxpayer, (you and me) are NOT on the hook to pay for the company's mistake and negligence.
@@larrybruce4856 they probably did think about and most likely knew they were illegal. but the mentality of nearly every corp is they have money to fight to an end then if it doesnt go their way they claim bankruptcy and start again with another shell company....sadly superfund sites are everywhere in the US ....colorado had those copper mine toxic waste water pools that a company abandoned, right under the noses of regulators and official and when the containment dikes burst all that toxicity flowed into major headwater streams, we got that bill.....and just in the past week the residents of that foresaken town of east palestine were informed their taxes would increase drastically to pay for that corporate crime....the system is rigged for you/us to always loose
always suing for our taxed dollars. At some point some groups have to stop being tribal They don't live like tribals.... just remove the dang things. ** AND that with George Allen Kelly is hideous LET HIM OUT. protecting wife and property. cloward/piven demonocrat nazi media, do they use his entire name for emphasis Against A FELLOW AMERICAN.
The developers will just declare bankruptcy and go defunct. Not only will the Tribe not see a dime, but they'll get stuck with the abandoned turbines. And for the developers, they'll just start a fresh new business and not have to worry about the turbines rotting on the Tribe's land for decades and decades to come.
MAYBE. GET BIDEN'S DOG FACE PONY SOLDIER KERRY , AL GORE & THOSE VARIOUS CLIMATE SCAM SUPPORTERS TO HELP REMOVING THEM . **** GOT TAXPAYER DOLLARS , BIG WIGS WILL RECEIVE. THEIR GOLDEN PARACHUTES & DECLARE BANKRUPTCY ** AFTER THEY INFORM CERTAIN POLITICAL FIGURES WHO HOLD STOCK OPTIONS WITH THEM ---- ANYONE REMEMBER SOLYNDRA ???????
Every company that installs turbines should be REQUIRED to post a bond for their decommission. Instead they milk the subsidies and then sell them off to avoid liability.
We should not be installing Wind Turbines at all, just like we should not be making all drugs legal or have an open border or anything else America has done to ruin a once nice country.
According to federal mining laws, it is against the law to remove any amount of dirt or soil, for any reason, from someone else's mineral rights claim without permission or permits, even if they are not using them. You must remove a lot of dirt from the ground to build the foundations for the towers. Legally, it is considered mining when you do that.
I used a hunt a local slough for ducks and pheasants up until the farmers around this property caved into allowing these wind farms to be built. One they were erected, I watched in horror as geese flew through the blades coming from a nearby alfalfa field and were reduced to puffs of feathers. Only a handful of geese were able to flip and dive through the blades fast enough to survive. I've seen murders of crows get wiped out as well. Not to mention constants flashing of red lights across the entire horizon at night and how unsightly that is. NONE of the power generated from these farms help out our community. It's all directed to the east coast.
@@pikehunter23750 nothing more beautiful than the waterfoul migration, they have to alter the flight patterns now so we see less and less of the dark string V's of geese. Elecromagnetic emitted effects wildlife too, I think thats what killed the whales.
@@helendropinski3754 I have to drive 2 hours west to see their migration patterns now. It used to be common to see the entire sky full of ducks and geese heading south when I was a kid.
That Arizona rancher needs to be released! He has every right to protect his land. Here in Oklahoma you are sometimes warned with a sign at the front of a driveway...enter and you will be greeted by a gun...the migrant was illegally crossing the border and the rancher was protecting HIS LAND.
Prosecutors will do everything they can to make their victims believe they will spend the rest of their lives in prison if they do not accept a plea deal. If the prosecutor had the evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt they would never offer a plea deal.
Factually incorrect. Prosecutors domthis all the time. Our justice system is incredibly lazy. In this case that might be true as it has national attention and it's politically charged.
@@andrewcarlson2178 "Factually incorrect. Prosecutors domthis all the time. Our justice system is incredibly lazy. In this case that might be true as it has national attention and it's politically charged." Actually, it is factually correct. Yes, the justice system is incredibly lazy, but that is the reason they do this. It is easier than doing their job if they do not have to go to trial and prove their case, specially if they do not actually have the evidence necessary to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
@@enigma51ted He is a landowner on the southern border. Shot and killed a tresspasser. Unjustly accused by anti-American judical system. They think we have no right of self protection.
Agreed. And it has become more of a legal system, than a judicial or justice system. Whoever can pay the most to the lawyers and judges wins, and that ain’t you or me or any middle-class American. Look up anarcho-tyranny, where the state lets criminals run rampant, yet makes upright citizens pay when we defend ourselves. All by design. @@UncleSam-bu9gz
@@UncleSam-bu9gzit wasn’t the first trespasser to enter his land after crossing the border illegally, either. Some have vandalized, stolen, and threatened his wife and him. I guess this one wasn’t smart enough to leave when confronted by an old man with a gun - and similarly armed wife who was hanging back in case Mr. Kelly didn’t survive the encounter. I’m surprised but pleased the terrible prosecutor didn’t add conspiracy charges for both of them.
This case has been going on for over 10 years. Why wasn't there a court order to put a stay on construction of the windfarm, until the matter was settled... & why did the developers build anyway, when the land was being contested?
I don't know why they didn't stay construction (they should have). My guess as for why they built on a contested claim was either they didn't think the claim had merit and decided to take the risk, or they figured they could at least hit the tribe with the cost to remove the windmills by getting them in the ground before a court could stop them.
@@brianjones3644 obviously? did you just learn to spell that word today? The reporting is that they DID NOT get the permits, hence why they lost the case. Just another story of wealthy white developers assuming they would win in court as the tribe runs out of money to fight them, which would have been a thing as little as few decades ago. Friendly racist judges would allow energy companies with government contract to basicly run the court Trump style until the plaintiffs were utterly bankrupt.
Because the big money & bought for politicians run America, as do the Globalists that we give all our debt to & bow down to. There is no Judical System in America or Education System or anything else, it's just a fast track to Marxism.
And who were the smart alec developers that erected all those wind generators on Indian land without proper approval? And did they have Democrat tax breaks for developing green electricity under a political deal?
@@ericwilliams1659the politicians and the tribes are liberal. Very few citizens here are liberal though. At least in southern Oklahoma. The governor however is a piece of shit. He actively attacks native American rights.
@@vulcan2882 the government of Oklahoma is democrat controlled. I don't know what B.S. you've been listening to. The voters are republican for the most part but for some reason, we always end up with a democrat governor. Even though the representatives are primarily republican.
The senior management and the directors of the company involved need to be held responsible. They should be unable to declare bankrupt and escape that way. Jail or worse if they try !!!!!
Developers screwed over Native Americans , the judge righted a wrong ! Believe the developers will come to a financial settlement ! Justice has been served ! 😂
I think the windmill developers should restore the land. Those behemoths require huge deep cement underground boxes to hold up the stems of those windmills to the torque applied. And those blades need to be replaced every ten years. They wear out. Removing each one is millions of dollars of expense that is never fully budgeted for before building.
@@rossbuchanan3016 not at all. Can you explain why an American uses the amount of energy per year as a European? And why does it have to be coal, gas, and oil, and not wind, solar, and geothermal energy? Most probably because the big bucks of the old brigade want more revenue ...
@@ElwoodEBluesor the fact that God provided fossil fuel in a most unique way, and there is a bounty of it. These so called “green energy” components are made using fossil fuel. Green energy is terribly inefficient and simply can’t stand on its own. There’s not enough Lithium in the world to replace even a small portion of the total automobiles that run on fossil fuel. It’s just another sham taught to young people so that when they grow up they can fight for it so all the government officials and “green” corporations can make a huge profit. Not to mention the fact that they are killing a lot of birds and the fact is they pollute the land. They don’t have a plan for what to do with all the waste. It’s disgusting as is all other forms of deception and greed
They say they are too expensive to remove, replace or repair....that is why the just leave them to rust away......100 of 1000's laying to waste in America from a report I read a couple years ago. Blades don't last the long some of the turbines here in Australia have had to have blades replaced and they are only a few years old ! Worst is they just hid the old ones in the bush, investigative journalist found them not long ago. Blade have a toxic resin which leaches out. It is know to cause cancers especially in children this was also reported by WHO couple years ago. This has caused some debate. Also not widely know is the fact that they have to have oil and grease for maintenance and some where between 100 and 300 litres of oil per year for oil change. I also read where an engineer who use to install them was quoted as saying they have a small diesel motor inbuilt to start them from being idle or they have to take power out of grid to start them. I live under a bunch of them they are terrible. Everyone wants green energy but no one wants them erected near them, survey came out today so I believe
What stupid BS, green energy is there to preserve humanity, without it we all will be gone in 50 to 100 years, what is wrong with you clueless dumb and ignorant people that simply don't seem to understand that burning oil and coal is terrible idea that must stop ASAP.
@@SG-js2qn that's absolutely not a lie. Its data found easily online. Solar panels are definitely China heavy but not wind. Those turbines are heavy as shit and getting them from China wouldn't make sense
Nah the real lesson is "Don't deal with natives", there always some ancient law that says they can try and sue you later if the project makes money. Just let them keep their undeveloped land and go broke.
So a Judge made a rule stating that digging a hole in the ground to anchor a thing is actually digging for minerals? And nobody contested that? *facepalm*
I recall an Engineer demonstrating how pointless these things were in that he showed the amount of energy it takes to make one from the mining, refining, construction and transportation and assembly and that they will never produce as much energy in their lifetime as it took to create them. Virtue signaling at enormous cost.
The same goes for solar panels. Renewables aren't renewable in that they don't make enough energy to "reproduce". Wind and sun energy might be renewable, but not the means to harvest those potential energy sources.
And the endless upkeep and maintenance on them takes more petroleum as these things consume tonnes of lubricant every year and someone has to drive it out there and pump it in.@@charlottehall5191
I’m in NJ, Governor Murphy wants to destroy the south Jersey coast line with wind mills off shore that will kill the commercial fishing industry, and ruin the beauty of the coastline, I’m so sick of these mass hysteria climate zealots, it’s predicated on nothing
Those windmills are nearing the end of their useful life so I bet they’ll just abandon them and leave the mess to the Indians. On the rancher case, at 75 an 8 year sentence is life so what does he care if they give him 20? He’ll be dead anyway.
he has up to 100 at least. demoncrats what they allowed into OUR HOME,USA gave degrees and jobs / positions to SMH. we were told: "we will destroy America from the inside" 1960 and We could see it with our own eyes even before being told. Oh and NIkita told us "YOUR politicians CAN BE BOUGHT" he was dealing with wh, senate and house of demonicratnazifasciststalinblmarxist.
At his age... (AZ rancher) I wouldn't take the plea deal either... Hell, a 23 year sentence at his age is a life sentence. Talk about being taken care of in your old age.. Free houseing, clothing, health care and food for the rest of your life.. yeah, it's prison... but at his age.. what is he losing? Bills?
Glad to hear it. Those stupid things are all over California. They kill countless birds including hawks, cranes, owls and eagles. They don't work half the time and look ridiculous on our otherwise beautiful hills.
No they don't. A recent study showed negligible impact on bird populations What did impact bird populations were windows (on houses and buildings) and feral cats. So please go away and learn.
I would love to be on the rancher's jury. A man has a right to protect himself and his property. He should be acquitted with an apology from the court.
@meatpopsicle1567 The old fiberglass is originally sold as a green replacement for fossil fuels, what is so "earth friendly" about something with limited service life that cannot be recycled? The fiberglass resin is a crude oil product, the glass fibers are energy intensive formed with fossil fuel electricity?
If wind turbines were good business, good business would have built them without federal incentives. The failures and shortcomings of wind power only testify to the folly of government subsidies.
@@thedude5040 Sorry to correct you but there are HUGE tax incentives given to development and operation of wind energy. The technology has been around for decades but nothing moved until the government stepped in with large financial incentives.
From what I can find out, Tall Grass Prairie is not a reservation. It is a preserve administered by the US National Park Service. It is on what used to be the Osage reservation. So permission was presumably granted by the Federal Government to build the farm. But under the deed that the Osage gifted the land to the Feds, they keep the mineral rights.
@@dimitriosfotopoulos3689 why would they run out? As one example, many “abandoned” oil fields are 10-20% depletion. 80% of the original oil and gas deposits remain in the formation. As technology improves, a high percentage of this is recoverable.
@@dimitriosfotopoulos3689 . Not wrong. To make solar panels you need to mine rare earth materials. Most of the countries that have an abundance of these minerals are not U.S. friendly. They also have issues with child labor and human rights in general. Solar panels can't be recycled. The Physics of sun to energy aren't favorable either. Sun converts to energy at a max of 33%, current technology is at about 26%. Wind isn't much better. Wind converts at 60% max, current technology is at about 45%. A 100 megawatt wind farm would "help" to power about 75,000 homes. This would require 30,000 tons of iron ore, 50,000 tons of concrete, and 900 tons of plastic that is not bio friendly. It takes 2 kg of crude oil to make 1 kg of plastic. By the way, this planet has a 100 - 150 year supply of crude.
@@scottelkin562 well, yes, wind turbines only convert quite a few percent of the wind's energy into electric energy. So what? Coal and gas-fired power stations waste about 60% of the energy delivered by combustion. The wind is blowing anyway and driven by the sun. There is no waste in wind energy not converted by turbines. And yes, you will need a lot of concrete and steel and some more materials to build them, but the time they take to produce they energy the production of the materials took is in the range of just months. After that they continue to produce energy without any more efforts. And, of course, solar panels don't use any rare earths. That's a very common misunderstanding. The consist of two layers of glass and between them a very thin layer of plastic carrying a thin layer of silicon that is enriched with phosphor and silicon. A tiny amount of copper is needed for their connection. They take something like 3 years to produce the energy needed for their construction but will do so for decades. By the way, rare earths are not that rare and can be found in many places of the world. The problematic part about them is that they are mostly mined in China using methods which are very harmful to the environment. Instead, the United States should start using their own resources. Here in Europe rare earth resources have recently been discovered in Sweden, in the vicinity of the ore mines in the north of the country. You mentioned 75000 homes that can be powered by this wind park. But, to my knowledge, the average US home consumes about 11,000 kWh per year. In Germany, where I live, we only need about 4 to 5 thousand kWh per home and year. The reason is, we have pretty well insulated homes and do not need much air condition either. In Germany, the 100 megawatt wind park would deliver about 30MW avg. with up-to-date turbines, say, 5MW each and 160m / 530 ft. of engine elevation above ground. We calculate with 400W per home, so it would indeed be 75,000 homes - a sizable city. There are are quite many wind parks in northern Germany, and together they deliver about 20% of the total electric energy we use (approx. 100 out of 500TWh/yr). New turbines are being built every year. We have plans to extend wind parks out on the North Sea so far that they will produce about 40 to 50% of our national electric energy demand within the next 20 years. German onshore Wind is planned to be increased to 110GW (now we have 60GW), and offshore shall be increased from 8GW now to 70GW until 2045. Currently, several large hvdc lines are under construction to transfer wind energy from the north to Southern Germany. Total offshore capacity the EU plans to build is about 300GW. On average, offshore wind parks deliver 40 to 50% of their nominal power over the year, while onshore delivers just 20-30%, but is half as expensive to build. By the way Germany is about half the size of Texas, but is heavily industrialized and has about three times the inhabitant number that Texas has. I was quite astonished to learn that especially Texas has a sizable production of wind energy. Sounds good to me. Greetings from the old continent.
I freaking hate wind farms but this hardly seems like a violation of “sub surface mineral rights”. Removal seems a big waste now. Perhaps they can now settle for some share of the profits. There’s still the possibility of successful appeal and give Osage reservation nothing so that should incentivize them to come to an agreement.
It's just a cash grab by professional victims. I mean they already got money for the rights to build the wind farm far as I know, they just want more money for another loop hole they found. To be fair all they should be given is the profits from the "mineral wealth" they got mining. which is to say a couple piles of dirt they dug up for foundations. To say the entire wind farms profits belong to them because they dug a hole is beyond silly and why no one should ever deal with the tribes now imo. Let them build their own stuff for a change.
I did some more digging into this story... particularly the 2017 decision that the wind farm was somehow engaged in MINING... So, during construction, the company drilled holes to pour the foundations. Well, some of what they dug out of those holes was limestone, which they then crushed and used in the construction... my guess would be the surface roads needed to access the towers for maintenance. So... that's the reason that they (arguably) needed a mining permit... which they didn't have. So, the next problem... The Osage Nation seem to have sold the surface rights quite some time ago... but they retained the mineral rights. This means that the wind farm company didn't need permission from the Osage to build the wind farm... at least on the surface of things. (Pardon the pun!) Nor did the Osage get paid... the owners of the SURFACE rights did. So, technically, the builders DID engage in mining during the construction process.
A cost of $300M to remove vs perhaps they come to an equitable agreement and let the farm continue to generate energy (tarrif and permit fees to the land owners).
The important question is: Where is that energy that is being generated by the wind generators going ??? Example. Of all the wind turbine generators in Palm Springs California (and there are thousands) only 15% of that energy powers Palm Springs. The rest powers Los Angeles.
They are about halfway through their lifespan. Companies like to abandon these when they stop making a profit. Might as well let make them remove them now so they dog go bankrupt and leave it to the natives to clean up.
Why is that hard to imagine, Washington backs all the rich and their money making schemes no matter how much idiocy it contains. Backing "green" energy is just like saying an old, rich, entitled man that has made a living off the people his whole life a progressive warrior. They can sell anything in this country and people beg for more.
@@kharnthebetrayer1575 in Osage county it’s all about mineral rights. Digging basements or swimming pools takes permits well beyond what any other jurisdiction would require.
@@chrissmith7669 and as a former construction worker , I get illegal building even if it’s “approved “ but it’s not mining at all and words have meanings and definitions. Since they didn’t “mine” for valuable minerals like coal , gold , etc.
@@kharnthebetrayer1575 have you worked on „Indian“ land? I’ve watched them pull the „mineral rights“ card many times on any project they either wanted to either stop or get money out of. It doesn’t have anything to do with actual mining but everything to do with Osage county aka the reservation.
Ok smart guy, if you dig looking for precious metals, and never find anything for 20 years, are you still mining the property ???@@kharnthebetrayer1575
@@kharnthebetrayer1575 The way the laws are written, the removal of any amount of dirt from someone else's mineral rights claim, no matter how much or how little and for any reason, is a violation without the proper permitting.
This is a very interesting case. I’m all for protecting the rights of our indigenous peoples and their land, so I have no issue with companies having to pay them to use their land to generate electricity with their wind farms. However, this isn’t mining and electrons are objectively definitely not minerals, and they’re not mining them out of the ground, so I’m not sure how this ruling holds up as described in this news report.
I suspect the wind farm will stay, the Osage just want their cut. :-) Can’t say I blame them. They worked hard to hold onto those mineral rights. Anyone building in Osage county needs to make sure they are square with the Osage nation BEFORE spending lots of money. The people building did not do due diligence.
You cannot remove dirt for any reason from someone else's mineral rights claim without the proper permits. It does not matter how much, or little, you move, nor does it matter for what reason. You are legally barred from doing it.
@@meatpopsicle1567 again, great comment...i owned property in arkansas years ago and was approached (legally) by a mining company to buy my mineral rights whilst i still owned the property which would always convey to the corporation...they approached the whole area so i ended up selling my properties and conveyed my intact mineral rights to humans not a corporation
No. You are prohibited by federal law to remove any amount of dirt or soil from someone else's mineral rights claim, for any reason, without the proper permitting. Those towers don't just sit on top of the ground. They sit on big foundation that go below the surface of the ground. Digging a hole big enough for the foundation is considered mining, if only just to remove the dirt in the way.
They don't do anything. Those are for poor people electricity not rich people electricity. You notice they're not tearing down city blocks to put them in the cities.
I think wind farms are not green at all and should not be subsidized or allowed to chop up Bald Eagles. But calling it "mining" to put turbines up is absolute BS.
@@gregorymalchuk272 I guess the government payouts are "crop subsidies". Next thing you know, they will be paying "wind farmers" to NOT put up more turbines.
Have to say retroactive law suites like this trying to sue for money isn't doing any ones image any favors. Unless the tribes protested long before these windmills were up I am rather sick of seeing this "decade later demand money" scheme so many take up these days.
You must dig deeps holes that go down from the surface to make the foundations for the towers. Without proper permits, it is against the law to remove any amount of dirt from someone else's mining rights claim.
@@meatpopsicle1567 but it's not the minerals being extracted that is the intention. I would think, as part of the land lease agreement, putting in footings for the turbine towers would be agreed upon.
@@DevilTravels Not according to federal mining laws. Moving dirt on someone else's mineral rights claim is still considered mining, whether or not you are extracting minerals.
Good news, apart from these ugly wind mills being practically useless they are a blight on the landscape as well as being very harmful on the environment.
So, the native american who owned the land, entered into a lease with the wind farm company, shouldn't be held liable too? Seriously, some stupid leaders of the council because while most reservations are dirt poor, this could be a gold mine (so to speak) for many reservations to put these wind farms on and start eaning income for the tribes. Some idiot has to be involved in this lawsuit.
Wait a second... The claim is the wind generators are somehow related to mining of minerals beneath the surface ? ... I suggest, the only 'mining' being done, is the mining of wind blowing some 100 feet or so above the ground ... And if anyone says in effect : "Well, those poles are secured into the ground, soooo..." My reply is in effect: By that theory, every building that has a slab or basement is now some how mining ? 🙄
@@jdmb03 I watched the video. It specifically says "mining" not construction. And specifically " The Osage Nation owns the SUBSURFACE rights to minerals in that area". Perhaps you don't understand the meaning of subsurface? 🙀
@@RikSandstromCaliforniaI can tell you this for certain. If you own the subsurface rights, then no one can dig or excavate on that property even if someone else owns the surface rights. You would have the ability to rent or lease the subsurface rights for a fee as well.
Have you seen the foundations for a wind tower. They are MASSIVE. I worked on a wind farm and the wrong foundations were poured. It was going to take millions to blast the old foundations out and repour They eventually got the tower company to amend the bases to the foundations.
I’d note that land you own Mineral Rights to usually includes “Air Rights” as well. That is you own Vertically Up as well as Vertically Down (Above as Below)
to harvest the air you currently must excavate enormous pits to secure the the turbines...if you do not have proper authority to dig those pits even on leased land then its illegal...
@@misterr50 I expected a response like this. If that were the case, then every house, building, pool, EVERYTHING would also have to have the proper permits. But rights to the minerals in the ground do not restrict the rights to dig. The rights are to the minerals below the surface. To prevent the "white man" from stealing the oil, natural gas, gold, silver, uranium, rare earth metals for magnets, etc. Not to digging a hole to mine the free air. The rights would have to be updated to include the air above the ground as well. Legaleez is legaleez. The only way putting up a windfarm infringes upon minerals below the surface is if they hauled off the land they excavated to outside the reservation. This is nothing more than the reservation getting pissed off they get nothing from the windfarm because it isn't minerals below the surface. If they can't benefit, no one can.
@@misterr50 Correct. You have to get permits from the local authority. Which is usually city or county. The most local is where you go. But no one with any amount of common sense would think that an agreement that gives the mineral rights to the reservation would deduce that also means rights to the air that comes from somewhere other than the reservation. Because jet streams and such. The judge did not order the wind farm to be removed because they did not get the correct building permits from the local authority. He ordered it removed because they did not get permission from the reservation. So, clearly we can see that they obtained the proper permits from the local authority in regards to building. Which leads me to my original question, when did mineral rights below the surface also start including the air above the surface.
We watch these going up everywhere and cutting through timber filled mountains building roads and substations.IMO. Windmills are changing our weather patterns how many millions of windmills do we need across this country this land God Bless
My dad bought one acre of land in Arizona in the 60's, but we lived in Texas so he never visited it after initially buying it. The taxes weren't much each year, so he paid it thinking he might sell it at a profit later. One year the tax bill never showed up. Dad contacted the tax agency and they said a developer owned the land. So, dad hired a lawyer in Phoenix to check up on it. The developer had bought all the land around it, but claimed he couldn't get ahold of my dad to buy the acre, so he just built on it like it was his. There was 3 brand new homes sitting on that acre and a judge put a hold on the sale of them until this got straightened out. Dad wound up with the land and homes, which he sold to the developer at less than market value just to be done with it. After it was all said and done dad had enough to buy some lakefront property outside of Dallas and build a home. That's where my brothers and I grew up!
You never know how things will turn out.
Good for you all. Take this stupid cowboy 😂
Well done.
Unfortunately developers have gained a lot of power since the 60’s. Regular Joe’s like us can no longer win against crooked developers. Those developers have now bought judges and politicians. We need to go back to the tax structure of the 1960’s for a better and fairer economy.
he was lucky to have gotten anything.
many states have what is called adverse possession
To make a successful claim for adverse possession in Arizona, a squatter must fulfill one of the following as per Arizona adverse possession laws (ARS § 12-522 - 12-526): Live in the property as a trespasser for two years (§ 12-522) Live in the property and have color of title for three years (§ 12-523
Going to be very very expensive to remove the foundations.
They should have thought about how expensive to remove these when they erected them in the beginning without proper land management permitting and/or approval. I hope the American taxpayer, (you and me) are NOT on the hook to pay for the company's mistake and negligence.
It won't get that far. It just gives natives the leverage to demand compensation for the land use. They won't really demand they get taken down.
They will just dump and walk away.
@@larrybruce4856 If it was oil, we would be.
@@larrybruce4856 they probably did think about and most likely knew they were illegal. but the mentality of nearly every corp is they have money to fight to an end then if it doesnt go their way they claim bankruptcy and start again with another shell company....sadly superfund sites are everywhere in the US ....colorado had those copper mine toxic waste water pools that a company abandoned, right under the noses of regulators and official and when the containment dikes burst all that toxicity flowed into major headwater streams, we got that bill.....and just in the past week the residents of that foresaken town of east palestine were informed their taxes would increase drastically to pay for that corporate crime....the system is rigged for you/us to always loose
The farmer shooting the perp was protecting himself, this should have never been called a crime.
It’s beyond ridiculous he’s in trouble for that. Makes me sick to my stomach.
always suing for our taxed dollars. At some point some groups have to stop being tribal They don't live like tribals.... just remove the dang things. ** AND that with George Allen Kelly is hideous LET HIM OUT. protecting wife and property. cloward/piven demonocrat nazi media, do they use his entire name for emphasis Against A FELLOW AMERICAN.
The farmer is a republican. That should explain everything.
@@user-ym7vi1jz8fhe murdered a human being hello
Let me guess you call yourself a Christian as well?
It's Arizona, They have shown that the politicians and courts are lawless leftists.
The developers will just declare bankruptcy and go defunct. Not only will the Tribe not see a dime, but they'll get stuck with the abandoned turbines. And for the developers, they'll just start a fresh new business and not have to worry about the turbines rotting on the Tribe's land for decades and decades to come.
good
And u R responsible for the Clean up of the property
Just WHO ARE the developers????
Then the band will go after the government agency involved and the bill will fall on the tax payers. Thats how capitalism works.
MAYBE. GET BIDEN'S DOG FACE PONY SOLDIER KERRY , AL GORE & THOSE VARIOUS CLIMATE SCAM SUPPORTERS TO HELP REMOVING THEM .
**** GOT TAXPAYER DOLLARS , BIG WIGS WILL RECEIVE. THEIR GOLDEN PARACHUTES & DECLARE BANKRUPTCY ** AFTER THEY INFORM CERTAIN POLITICAL FIGURES WHO HOLD STOCK OPTIONS WITH THEM ---- ANYONE REMEMBER
SOLYNDRA ???????
Every company that installs turbines should be REQUIRED to post a bond for their decommission. Instead they milk the subsidies and then sell them off to avoid liability.
We should not be installing Wind Turbines at all, just like we should not
be making all drugs legal or have an open border or anything else America
has done to ruin a once nice country.
Maybe.
It absolutely is in the Northeast. As soon as they are built , they are sold off.@@pearl_kill_Gaming
@@pearl_kill_Gamingobviously .. that's why he said "should be REQUIRED" .. learn to read?
According to federal mining laws, it is against the law to remove any amount of dirt or soil, for any reason, from someone else's mineral rights claim without permission or permits, even if they are not using them. You must remove a lot of dirt from the ground to build the foundations for the towers. Legally, it is considered mining when you do that.
The Indians here in Oklahoma have a long history of making bad decisions.
they didn't remove the dirt
If that "any amount" standard actually applied you'd need a mining permit to dig fence posts.
Who takes the dirt with them after digging fence posts? Most folks dig the holes and spread the dirt. Did you think this through?
@@j.thomas7128 Do you think they removed the dirt for the windmill footings to somewhere beyond the reservation's mineral rights area?
Save the planet. Give farm fields back to food producers and Wildlife!
I used a hunt a local slough for ducks and pheasants up until the farmers around this property caved into allowing these wind farms to be built. One they were erected, I watched in horror as geese flew through the blades coming from a nearby alfalfa field and were reduced to puffs of feathers. Only a handful of geese were able to flip and dive through the blades fast enough to survive. I've seen murders of crows get wiped out as well. Not to mention constants flashing of red lights across the entire horizon at night and how unsightly that is. NONE of the power generated from these farms help out our community. It's all directed to the east coast.
@@pikehunter23750 nothing more beautiful than the waterfoul migration, they have to alter the flight patterns now so we see less and less of the dark string V's of geese. Elecromagnetic emitted effects wildlife too, I think thats what killed the whales.
@@helendropinski3754 I have to drive 2 hours west to see their migration patterns now. It used to be common to see the entire sky full of ducks and geese heading south when I was a kid.
Amen to that
As apposes to your need for electricity. Wildlife and food can be grown around windmills.
That Arizona rancher needs to be released! He has every right to protect his land. Here in Oklahoma you are sometimes warned with a sign at the front of a driveway...enter and you will be greeted by a gun...the migrant was illegally crossing the border and the rancher was protecting HIS LAND.
What was he doing there anyway?
Trespassing is not a felony. You can't kill someone for stealing a rock from your driveway and you can't kill people for trespassing.
@@jeffrey1312😂😂😂 you must be a Democrat.
How do you protect your land? By killing people?
@@thewebdiva5903 we get it you’re a democrat who wants everyone to have everything free.
Prosecutors will do everything they can to make their victims believe they will spend the rest of their lives in prison if they do not accept a plea deal. If the prosecutor had the evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt they would never offer a plea deal.
What? This is a civil matter...not criminal...no plea deals in civil matters...moron
true moo
Factually incorrect. Prosecutors domthis all the time. Our justice system is incredibly lazy. In this case that might be true as it has national attention and it's politically charged.
@@andrewcarlson2178
"Factually incorrect. Prosecutors domthis all the time. Our justice system is incredibly lazy. In this case that might be true as it has national attention and it's politically charged."
Actually, it is factually correct. Yes, the justice system is incredibly lazy, but that is the reason they do this. It is easier than doing their job if they do not have to go to trial and prove their case, specially if they do not actually have the evidence necessary to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
@@andrewcarlson2178 again...THIS IS A CIVIL MATTER...NOT CRIMINAL...SO NO PLEA BARGINS...DAMN YOU PEOPLE ARE STUPID.
Kelly should have never been arrested NOT GUILTY
He is being railroaded!!!
What does a Kelly person have to do with this?
@@enigma51ted He is a landowner on the southern border. Shot and killed a tresspasser. Unjustly accused by anti-American judical system. They think we have no right of self protection.
Agreed. And it has become more of a legal system, than a judicial or justice system. Whoever can pay the most to the lawyers and judges wins, and that ain’t you or me or any middle-class American. Look up anarcho-tyranny, where the state lets criminals run rampant, yet makes upright citizens pay when we defend ourselves. All by design. @@UncleSam-bu9gz
@@UncleSam-bu9gzit wasn’t the first trespasser to enter his land after crossing the border illegally, either. Some have vandalized, stolen, and threatened his wife and him. I guess this one wasn’t smart enough to leave when confronted by an old man with a gun - and similarly armed wife who was hanging back in case Mr. Kelly didn’t survive the encounter. I’m surprised but pleased the terrible prosecutor didn’t add conspiracy charges for both of them.
This case has been going on for over 10 years. Why wasn't there a court order to put a stay on construction of the windfarm, until the matter was settled... & why did the developers build anyway, when the land was being contested?
I don't know why they didn't stay construction (they should have). My guess as for why they built on a contested claim was either they didn't think the claim had merit and decided to take the risk, or they figured they could at least hit the tribe with the cost to remove the windmills by getting them in the ground before a court could stop them.
they obviously got permits. You e need EXTRA permits to run power distribution lines, inc. environmental impact studies
@@brianjones3644 obviously? did you just learn to spell that word today? The reporting is that they DID NOT get the permits, hence why they lost the case. Just another story of wealthy white developers assuming they would win in court as the tribe runs out of money to fight them, which would have been a thing as little as few decades ago. Friendly racist judges would allow energy companies with government contract to basicly run the court Trump style until the plaintiffs were utterly bankrupt.
Because the big money & bought for politicians run America, as do the
Globalists that we give all our debt to & bow down to.
There is no Judical System in America or Education System or anything
else, it's just a fast track to Marxism.
It was Indian land, historically you can build and extract resources from it without any repercussions since why would the Federal government care.
Prayers for this rancher!
And who were the smart alec developers that erected all those wind generators on Indian land without proper approval? And did they have Democrat tax breaks for developing green electricity under a political deal?
YES, OKLAHOMA is the most liberal state in the union.
I doubt they reduced oil welfare programs to help non-oil.
@@ericwilliams1659the politicians and the tribes are liberal. Very few citizens here are liberal though. At least in southern Oklahoma.
The governor however is a piece of shit. He actively attacks native American rights.
you do know Oklahoma has always been a red state, so explane how the dems got a tax break on this.
@@vulcan2882 the government of Oklahoma is democrat controlled. I don't know what B.S. you've been listening to. The voters are republican for the most part but for some reason, we always end up with a democrat governor. Even though the representatives are primarily republican.
@vulcan2882 It is like they live in an alternate reality. When a red state does something Blue, it is like the state had always been liberal.
The senior management and the directors of the company involved need to be held responsible. They should be unable to declare bankrupt and escape that way. Jail or worse if they try !!!!!
this will be appealed and set aside
Billions wasted and self-defense is now a crime. They had better think twice about how they handle that landowner in Arizona.
I wouldn’t convict the rancher in last story !
Neither would I.
I wouldn't either. Furthermore, I would sue for Prosecutorial Misconduct, and charge the authorities
with Malfeasance in Office.
So, you are a judge then, eh, are you?!😊
@@ErickvdK well the farmer claimed he heard shots then found the guy dead.. They ""claim"" he shot the illegal.
@@insane4wheeler1 Circumstancial evidence, objection denied!
Good for your dad for fighting back! Congrats!
Developers screwed over Native Americans , the judge righted a wrong ! Believe the developers will come to a financial settlement ! Justice has been served ! 😂
The entire nation of immigrants screwed over the real Americans, the Native Americans
i can see the judge saying that the farm now belongs to the natives and they can keep all the revenue from now on.
@@ronblack7870as it should be.
I think the windmill developers should restore the land. Those behemoths require huge deep cement underground boxes to hold up the stems of those windmills to the torque applied. And those blades need to be replaced every ten years. They wear out. Removing each one is millions of dollars of expense that is never fully budgeted for before building.
Capturing wind is not mineral mining. The judge got it wrong. The minerals were never removed
At last someone with common sense! Get rid of all wind turbines amd solar farms!
Don't forget to stop the burning of oil, coal, and gas!
@@ElwoodEBlues you are very funny
@@rossbuchanan3016 not at all. Can you explain why an American uses the amount of energy per year as a European?
And why does it have to be coal, gas, and oil, and not wind, solar, and geothermal energy? Most probably because the big bucks of the old brigade want more revenue ...
@@ElwoodEBluesor the fact that God provided fossil fuel in a most unique way, and there is a bounty of it. These so called “green energy” components are made using fossil fuel. Green energy is terribly inefficient and simply can’t stand on its own. There’s not enough Lithium in the world to replace even a small portion of the total automobiles that run on fossil fuel. It’s just another sham taught to young people so that when they grow up they can fight for it so all the government officials and “green” corporations can make a huge profit. Not to mention the fact that they are killing a lot of birds and the fact is they pollute the land. They don’t have a plan for what to do with all the waste. It’s disgusting as is all other forms of deception and greed
The above brought to you by the oil and gas lobby. Good job guys. No one will suspect.
At some point they will have to be removed. They don't last forever.
your right, blades only good for 25yrs, so its a tax right off
Then they become landfill....another giant disaster to contend with.
@@billgoin4004
LoL it's a taxpayer ripoff.
They say they are too expensive to remove, replace or repair....that is why the just leave them to rust away......100 of 1000's laying to waste in America from a report I read a couple years ago. Blades don't last the long some of the turbines here in Australia have had to have blades replaced and they are only a few years old ! Worst is they just hid the old ones in the bush, investigative journalist found them not long ago. Blade have a toxic resin which leaches out. It is know to cause cancers especially in children this was also reported by WHO couple years ago. This has caused some debate. Also not widely know is the fact that they have to have oil and grease for maintenance and some where between 100 and 300 litres of oil per year for oil change. I also read where an engineer who use to install them was quoted as saying they have a small diesel motor inbuilt to start them from being idle or they have to take power out of grid to start them. I live under a bunch of them they are terrible. Everyone wants green energy but no one wants them erected near them, survey came out today so I believe
The the poison sludge that ozes from them might. They are not like small wind generators.
"Green energy" was ALWAYS about making the landed gentry rich.
And the manufacturers of the green energy products (China). While disrupting the power grid.
What stupid BS, green energy is there to preserve humanity, without it we all will be gone in 50 to 100 years, what is wrong with you clueless dumb and ignorant people that simply don't seem to understand that burning oil and coal is terrible idea that must stop ASAP.
@@SG-js2qn 75% of the wind turbines installed in the US are made domestically. Same for the towers and nacelles.
@@HH-le1vi That's a huge lie. You have either allowed yourself to be deceived, or you are purposefully lying to promote a cause.
@@SG-js2qn that's absolutely not a lie. Its data found easily online. Solar panels are definitely China heavy but not wind. Those turbines are heavy as shit and getting them from China wouldn't make sense
Message to developers. Don't overstep your rights. Curb your greed.
Nah the real lesson is "Don't deal with natives", there always some ancient law that says they can try and sue you later if the project makes money. Just let them keep their undeveloped land and go broke.
Good,get rid of those thing.they are anything but green
So a Judge made a rule stating that digging a hole in the ground to anchor a thing is actually digging for minerals? And nobody contested that? *facepalm*
Don't you just love those technicalities!😮😂😂😊
Well they never had permission. Imagine someone building something on your property without you giving written permission.
Happy to hear. I hate thos awful monstrosities
progressives Regressing us to neanderthals.
You’ll really hate climate change then; thanks for destroying our future for your selfish needs! I’m sure your grandkids will love you for it!
They aren't worth it.
I recall an Engineer demonstrating how pointless these things were in that he showed the amount of energy it takes to make one from the mining, refining, construction and transportation and assembly and that they will never produce as much energy in their lifetime as it took to create them. Virtue signaling at enormous cost.
Yeah but politictions made a killing on them so
The same goes for solar panels. Renewables aren't renewable in that they don't make enough energy to "reproduce". Wind and sun energy might be renewable, but not the means to harvest those potential energy sources.
So you don't know how to use the internet and yet here you are.@user-hg4li3zx1x
Not to mention disposing of them when they're not functional anymore. Gonna take a lot of big holes to bury the debris and they will never decompose.
And the endless upkeep and maintenance on them takes more petroleum as these things consume tonnes of lubricant every year and someone has to drive it out there and pump it in.@@charlottehall5191
I’m in NJ, Governor Murphy wants to destroy the south Jersey coast line with wind mills off shore that will kill the commercial fishing industry, and ruin the beauty of the coastline, I’m so sick of these mass hysteria climate zealots, it’s predicated on nothing
I'm old.
Back in the 70s these idiots,probably parents, where screaming we were going to be in another ice age by now.
Is that where they tore that old lighthouse tower down last year
These people are dumb.
Not to mention whales
Those windmills are nearing the end of their useful life so I bet they’ll just abandon them and leave the mess to the Indians. On the rancher case, at 75 an 8 year sentence is life so what does he care if they give him 20? He’ll be dead anyway.
he has up to 100 at least. demoncrats what they allowed into OUR HOME,USA gave degrees and jobs / positions to SMH. we were told: "we will destroy America from the inside" 1960 and We could see it with our own eyes even before being told. Oh and NIkita told us "YOUR politicians CAN BE BOUGHT" he was dealing with wh, senate and house of demonicratnazifasciststalinblmarxist.
He's probably thinking "come and get me" just make sure he's single with no children
Amen , good move!!
A 1200 watt wind turbine on top of your patio will do you better and save you more money than those big ass wind turbines that they put on farms
Fantastic win! Don’t let them ever build these bird choppers
Someone with authority does have common sense!
Its always about POLITICS.. Re-election actions to look good to voters often the case.. It is seldom about the law or circumstances..
For all those complaining about using the term mining.
Are you good with calling industrial energy machines FARMS?
Yes, that is a stretch isn’t it.
Tax payers had to pay to put these up and take them down.
At his age... (AZ rancher) I wouldn't take the plea deal either... Hell, a 23 year sentence at his age is a life sentence. Talk about being taken care of in your old age.. Free houseing, clothing, health care and food for the rest of your life.. yeah, it's prison... but at his age.. what is he losing? Bills?
Perhaps you yourself will encounter the same chop block someday. Don't rule it out. Locked up! Free living! For u my friend!
Terrific decision on the judges part! Kudos!
About time there were some wins against corporate thieves.
Wow! This is a fantastic piece of news! (It is also strange that the other story is included!) I wonder what will happen to the turbines!
They'll make a deal with the Osage to split the profits. That was their goal the whol time, I reckon.
Glad to hear it. Those stupid things are all over California. They kill countless birds including hawks, cranes, owls and eagles. They don't work half the time and look ridiculous on our otherwise beautiful hills.
You make up good stories ..one of those saying my electricity comes out of the outlet !
No they don't. A recent study showed negligible impact on bird populations What did impact bird populations were windows (on houses and buildings) and feral cats.
So please go away and learn.
@@macmcleod1188 demoncratnzmarxchina counting system again!
They say those offshore ones kill whales too.
And planes don't?
I would love to be on the rancher's jury. A man has a right to protect himself and his property. He should be acquitted with an apology from the court.
The guy was protecting his property. The AG needs to be jailed
This removal needs to happen everywhere!
I always admite when people refuse plea agreements and stand for the truth of their innocense.
Self defense!
Al Gore and John Kerry lose.
How about ordering the retired wind turbines be properly recycled instead of just buried in the ground?
How do you recycled old, weakened fiberglass? The stuff has been around for decades and no one has been able to figure that out in all this time.
@meatpopsicle1567 The old fiberglass is originally sold as a green replacement for fossil fuels, what is so "earth friendly" about something with limited service life that cannot be recycled? The fiberglass resin is a crude oil product, the glass fibers are energy intensive formed with fossil fuel electricity?
@@PAPOOSELAKESURFER Yup. Totally "green."
There are companies that recycle fiberglass
I've read that they can't recycle these -- have to research what kind of metal they are made of .
If wind turbines were good business, good business would have built them without federal incentives. The failures and shortcomings of wind power only testify to the folly of government subsidies.
They're just way too expensive to maintain and don't generate energy frequently enough to justify in most places
Dumbs Dumbs windmills are highly profitable and I belive most these days are built without any subsidy
@@thedude5040 I worked in the industry dumb dumb. I know what the numbers are. You don't.
@@thedude5040 Sorry to correct you but there are HUGE tax incentives given to development and operation of wind energy. The technology has been around for decades but nothing moved until the government stepped in with large financial incentives.
@BulletproofPastor you realize there are many days in the south west power pool grid where our electricity is 50% wind generated?
$300 million to remove 84 turbines... Money laundering 101.
From what I can find out, Tall Grass Prairie is not a reservation. It is a preserve administered by the US National Park Service. It is on what used to be the Osage reservation. So permission was presumably granted by the Federal Government to build the farm. But under the deed that the Osage gifted the land to the Feds, they keep the mineral rights.
And the right to be stupid too.
@@markverani5088 lol We ALL have that right. 🤣
Glad to see some people are waking up to the lie of wind power.
You'd better hope you are wrong. Because after the oil and other fossil fuels inevitably run out, solar, wind, and nuclear are what is left.
Exactly.
@@dimitriosfotopoulos3689 why would they run out? As one example, many “abandoned” oil fields are 10-20% depletion. 80% of the original oil and gas deposits remain in the formation. As technology improves, a high percentage of this is recoverable.
@@dimitriosfotopoulos3689 . Not wrong. To make solar panels you need to mine rare earth materials. Most of the countries that have an abundance of these minerals are not U.S. friendly. They also have issues with child labor and human rights in general. Solar panels can't be recycled. The Physics of sun to energy aren't favorable either. Sun converts to energy at a max of 33%, current technology is at about 26%. Wind isn't much better. Wind converts at 60% max, current technology is at about 45%. A 100 megawatt wind farm would "help" to power about 75,000 homes. This would require 30,000 tons of iron ore, 50,000 tons of concrete, and 900 tons of plastic that is not bio friendly. It takes 2 kg of crude oil to make 1 kg of plastic. By the way, this planet has a 100 - 150 year supply of crude.
@@scottelkin562
well, yes, wind turbines only convert quite a few percent of the wind's energy into electric energy. So what? Coal and gas-fired power stations waste about 60% of the energy delivered by combustion. The wind is blowing anyway and driven by the sun. There is no waste in wind energy not converted by turbines. And yes, you will need a lot of concrete and steel and some more materials to build them, but the time they take to produce they energy the production of the materials took is in the range of just months. After that they continue to produce energy without any more efforts.
And, of course, solar panels don't use any rare earths. That's a very common misunderstanding. The consist of two layers of glass and between them a very thin layer of plastic carrying a thin layer of silicon that is enriched with phosphor and silicon. A tiny amount of copper is needed for their connection. They take something like 3 years to produce the energy needed for their construction but will do so for decades.
By the way, rare earths are not that rare and can be found in many places of the world. The problematic part about them is that they are mostly mined in China using methods which are very harmful to the environment.
Instead, the United States should start using their own resources. Here in Europe rare earth resources have recently been discovered in Sweden, in the vicinity of the ore mines in the north of the country.
You mentioned 75000 homes that can be powered by this wind park. But, to my knowledge, the average US home consumes about 11,000 kWh per year. In Germany, where I live, we only need about 4 to 5 thousand kWh per home and year. The reason is, we have pretty well insulated homes and do not need much air condition either. In Germany, the 100 megawatt wind park would deliver about 30MW avg. with up-to-date turbines, say, 5MW each and 160m / 530 ft. of engine elevation above ground. We calculate with 400W per home, so it would indeed be 75,000 homes - a sizable city.
There are are quite many wind parks in northern Germany, and together they deliver about 20% of the total electric energy we use (approx. 100 out of 500TWh/yr). New turbines are being built every year. We have plans to extend wind parks out on the North Sea so far that they will produce about 40 to 50% of our national electric energy demand within the next 20 years. German onshore Wind is planned to be increased to 110GW (now we have 60GW), and offshore shall be increased from 8GW now to 70GW until 2045. Currently, several large hvdc lines are under construction to transfer wind energy from the north to Southern Germany.
Total offshore capacity the EU plans to build is about 300GW.
On average, offshore wind parks deliver 40 to 50% of their nominal power over the year, while onshore delivers just 20-30%, but is half as expensive to build.
By the way Germany is about half the size of Texas, but is heavily industrialized and has about three times the inhabitant number that Texas has. I was quite astonished to learn that especially Texas has a sizable production of wind energy. Sounds good to me.
Greetings from the old continent.
I freaking hate wind farms but this hardly seems like a violation of “sub surface mineral rights”. Removal seems a big waste now. Perhaps they can now settle for some share of the profits. There’s still the possibility of successful appeal and give Osage reservation nothing so that should incentivize them to come to an agreement.
It's just a cash grab by professional victims. I mean they already got money for the rights to build the wind farm far as I know, they just want more money for another loop hole they found. To be fair all they should be given is the profits from the "mineral wealth" they got mining. which is to say a couple piles of dirt they dug up for foundations. To say the entire wind farms profits belong to them because they dug a hole is beyond silly and why no one should ever deal with the tribes now imo.
Let them build their own stuff for a change.
I hate those worthless bird killing turbines🤮 nothing but another green energy scam
I did some more digging into this story... particularly the 2017 decision that the wind farm was somehow engaged in MINING...
So, during construction, the company drilled holes to pour the foundations.
Well, some of what they dug out of those holes was limestone, which they then crushed and used in the construction... my guess would be the surface roads needed to access the towers for maintenance.
So... that's the reason that they (arguably) needed a mining permit... which they didn't have.
So, the next problem...
The Osage Nation seem to have sold the surface rights quite some time ago... but they retained the mineral rights.
This means that the wind farm company didn't need permission from the Osage to build the wind farm... at least on the surface of things. (Pardon the pun!) Nor did the Osage get paid... the owners of the SURFACE rights did.
So, technically, the builders DID engage in mining during the construction process.
It's a simple money grab
There is no Osage Nation reservation. It was disestablished by Act of Congress in 1906.
Why are you showing the Tehachapi California Wind Farm on a Story about an Oklahoma Wind Farm?
Yes thank you Jesus!
Thanks Judge
The land owner has a right to defend his property
A cost of $300M to remove vs perhaps they come to an equitable agreement and let the farm continue to generate energy (tarrif and permit fees to the land owners).
The important question is: Where is that energy that is being generated by the wind generators going ??? Example. Of all the wind turbine generators in Palm Springs California (and there are thousands) only 15% of that energy powers Palm Springs. The rest powers Los Angeles.
Indians are too F'n stupid to do the smart thing.
They are about halfway through their lifespan. Companies like to abandon these when they stop making a profit. Might as well let make them remove them now so they dog go bankrupt and leave it to the natives to clean up.
No jury in AZ (outside of Phoenix) will find this man guilty. I hope they call me to serve on his jury.
Plant crops and trees! I can't believe the us is still screwing the Osage people!
Why is that hard to imagine, Washington backs all the rich and their money making schemes no matter how much idiocy it contains. Backing "green" energy is just like saying an old, rich, entitled man that has made a living off the people his whole life a progressive warrior. They can sell anything in this country and people beg for more.
You don’t get how the Osage mineral rights work. Digging deeper than to plant a shrub requires permission.
Digging for footers is not mining.
@@kharnthebetrayer1575 in Osage county it’s all about mineral rights. Digging basements or swimming pools takes permits well beyond what any other jurisdiction would require.
@@chrissmith7669 and as a former construction worker , I get illegal building even if it’s “approved “ but it’s not mining at all and words have meanings and definitions. Since they didn’t “mine” for valuable minerals like coal , gold , etc.
@@kharnthebetrayer1575 have you worked on „Indian“ land? I’ve watched them pull the „mineral rights“ card many times on any project they either wanted to either stop or get money out of. It doesn’t have anything to do with actual mining but everything to do with Osage county aka the reservation.
Ok smart guy, if you dig looking for precious metals, and never find anything for 20 years, are you still mining the property ???@@kharnthebetrayer1575
The Democrats waste so much of this country’s money!
WAKE UP HALF OF AMERICA !!!!
Wind turbines use electricity to run when the wind doesn’t blow. They can use more electricity than they generate.
They don't run when the wind isn't blowing. Total idle use by the control systems is probably in the single digit amperes (likely even less than that)
They should move the turbines to Washington DC. All that constant hot air and wind bags should power the country.
@@mikeh.1408 👍
Kelly shoild be set free for defending his land from invaders
Oh it's really only about the $$$. (Cynical but true.)
Reality is a thing.
Windmill farms are the equivalent of nails dragged across nature's chalkboard
Sounds like a win!
Mining? That's absurd!
Each wind turbine base is a major excavation, so yes “mining” took place.
@@timothyorendorff7642so they got minerals? Or did they dig for footers ….. your logic is pure nonsense.
@@kharnthebetrayer1575 Sorry I hurt your feelings, no really.
@@kharnthebetrayer1575 The way the laws are written, the removal of any amount of dirt from someone else's mineral rights claim, no matter how much or how little and for any reason, is a violation without the proper permitting.
Incase any one is wondering, the Sherriff in the county about the rancher is a democrat
Thank you
This is a very interesting case. I’m all for protecting the rights of our indigenous peoples and their land, so I have no issue with companies having to pay them to use their land to generate electricity with their wind farms. However, this isn’t mining and electrons are objectively definitely not minerals, and they’re not mining them out of the ground, so I’m not sure how this ruling holds up as described in this news report.
absolutely insane. the amount of damage this judge is doing over a shakey definition of "mining"
I suspect the wind farm will stay, the Osage just want their cut. :-)
Can’t say I blame them. They worked hard to hold onto those mineral rights. Anyone building in Osage county needs to make sure they are square with the Osage nation BEFORE spending lots of money. The people building did not do due diligence.
I agree there needed to be a reservation council approval but a mining permit? What's next a breathing permit?
You cannot remove dirt for any reason from someone else's mineral rights claim without the proper permits. It does not matter how much, or little, you move, nor does it matter for what reason. You are legally barred from doing it.
Don’t give them any ideas.
@@meatpopsicle1567 again, great comment...i owned property in arkansas years ago and was approached (legally) by a mining company to buy my mineral rights whilst i still owned the property which would always convey to the corporation...they approached the whole area so i ended up selling my properties and conveyed my intact mineral rights to humans not a corporation
Glorious! 😁👍
wind is a mineral?
RIIIGHT!
Their are definitely minerals (rocks) in the heads of those claiming that. And in the head of the judge that agreed with them.
No. You are prohibited by federal law to remove any amount of dirt or soil from someone else's mineral rights claim, for any reason, without the proper permitting. Those towers don't just sit on top of the ground. They sit on big foundation that go below the surface of the ground. Digging a hole big enough for the foundation is considered mining, if only just to remove the dirt in the way.
Good riddance to the wind farm. Money foolishly spent.
The old man farmer should be let go ... stop picking on the good people in 'for those who are not from are country ' keep him free.!!!
Rancher deserves a medal for protecting the border - not a prison!
The rancher shouldn't be convicted!
He just got caught by someone woke.
They don't do anything. Those are for poor people electricity not rich people electricity. You notice they're not tearing down city blocks to put them in the cities.
I think wind farms are not green at all and should not be subsidized or allowed to chop up Bald Eagles.
But calling it "mining" to put turbines up is absolute BS.
You have it backwards. Watch the video again.
@@dmk1529 Maybe you need to.
there are so many bald eagles they are not endangered at all
Well it certainly isn't a "farm". Unless an oil field is an "oil farm" or a coal mine is a "coal farm".
@@gregorymalchuk272 I guess the government payouts are "crop subsidies".
Next thing you know, they will be paying "wind farmers" to NOT put up more turbines.
Have to say retroactive law suites like this trying to sue for money isn't doing any ones image any favors. Unless the tribes protested long before these windmills were up I am rather sick of seeing this "decade later demand money" scheme so many take up these days.
Huh? If the wording refers to the mineral rights below ground, how does that equate to above ground?
You must dig deeps holes that go down from the surface to make the foundations for the towers. Without proper permits, it is against the law to remove any amount of dirt from someone else's mining rights claim.
@@meatpopsicle1567 but it's not the minerals being extracted that is the intention.
I would think, as part of the land lease agreement, putting in footings for the turbine towers would be agreed upon.
@@DevilTravels Not according to federal mining laws. Moving dirt on someone else's mineral rights claim is still considered mining, whether or not you are extracting minerals.
Hallelujah they distract from the beauty of the land and horrible for our beautiful birds❤
How the hell can you call a windmill a mining operation? Incredible!
The mining classification comes from the amount of soil dug up to place footing down.
@@glennsmethurst2235Yep.
How about its Native land and should be justly compensated no matter the classification.
You have to dig in the ground pretty deep to put your foundation in!
Yea but wouldn't think it would constitute Mining!
So every outhouse is a mine?
Nah, that’s a money grab. It’s not mining, and will get tossed out.
Good news, apart from these ugly wind mills being practically useless they are a blight on the landscape as well as being very harmful on the environment.
So, the native american who owned the land, entered into a lease with the wind farm company, shouldn't be held liable too? Seriously, some stupid leaders of the council because while most reservations are dirt poor, this could be a gold mine (so to speak) for many reservations to put these wind farms on and start eaning income for the tribes. Some idiot has to be involved in this lawsuit.
Why not just free power for life?
Tesla wanted electricity to be free to all people.
Who will be paying for this "free" power?" Are you going to volunteer to maintain these things for no compensation?
I once lived in Osage County. Wndr if a judge might rule that my house was a mine. We did, after all, dig into the ground to plant a flower bed.
So, what minerals were extracted by the windmills?
Digging a major huge hole for the concrete base removes minerals from the ground. That is considered mining.
Why would you need a mining permit if your wind " farming"?
Wait a second... The claim is the wind generators are somehow related to mining of minerals beneath the surface ? ... I suggest, the only 'mining' being done, is the mining of wind blowing some 100 feet or so above the ground ... And if anyone says in effect : "Well, those poles are secured into the ground, soooo..."
My reply is in effect: By that theory, every building that has a slab or basement is now some how mining ? 🙄
Didn't watch the video?
@@jdmb03 I watched the video. It specifically says "mining" not construction. And specifically " The Osage Nation owns the SUBSURFACE rights to minerals in that area". Perhaps you don't understand the meaning of subsurface? 🙀
You should’ve stayed in school past the sixth grade.
@@RikSandstromCaliforniaI can tell you this for certain. If you own the subsurface rights, then no one can dig or excavate on that property even if someone else owns the surface rights. You would have the ability to rent or lease the subsurface rights for a fee as well.
Have you seen the foundations for a wind tower. They are MASSIVE. I worked on a wind farm and the wrong foundations were poured. It was going to take millions to blast the old foundations out and repour They eventually got the tower company to amend the bases to the foundations.
They are actually fans that modify the weather.
No doubt there will be an appeal.
Not sure how wind would be considered subsurface.
It's the foundations genius.
I’d note that land you own Mineral Rights to usually includes “Air Rights” as well.
That is you own Vertically Up as well as Vertically Down (Above as Below)
"Air RIghts" are usually call gas rights in subsurface deeds (gas and oil) (gas in that context does not mean gasoline).
@@2Truth4Liberty lol
I'd reject that plea bargain too. All it takes is one juror.....and he'll probably have several. Looks like the prosecution knows that.
How on earth is air above the surface considered minerals below the surface?
to harvest the air you currently must excavate enormous pits to secure the the turbines...if you do not have proper authority to dig those pits even on leased land then its illegal...
@@misterr50 I expected a response like this. If that were the case, then every house, building, pool, EVERYTHING would also have to have the proper permits. But rights to the minerals in the ground do not restrict the rights to dig. The rights are to the minerals below the surface. To prevent the "white man" from stealing the oil, natural gas, gold, silver, uranium, rare earth metals for magnets, etc. Not to digging a hole to mine the free air. The rights would have to be updated to include the air above the ground as well. Legaleez is legaleez. The only way putting up a windfarm infringes upon minerals below the surface is if they hauled off the land they excavated to outside the reservation. This is nothing more than the reservation getting pissed off they get nothing from the windfarm because it isn't minerals below the surface. If they can't benefit, no one can.
@@jbuck9821 dont know where you live but every place ive lived you need a permit every item you listed plus have inspections and reinspection.
@@misterr50 Correct. You have to get permits from the local authority. Which is usually city or county. The most local is where you go. But no one with any amount of common sense would think that an agreement that gives the mineral rights to the reservation would deduce that also means rights to the air that comes from somewhere other than the reservation. Because jet streams and such. The judge did not order the wind farm to be removed because they did not get the correct building permits from the local authority. He ordered it removed because they did not get permission from the reservation. So, clearly we can see that they obtained the proper permits from the local authority in regards to building. Which leads me to my original question, when did mineral rights below the surface also start including the air above the surface.
What are they going to do with the 84 Turbine wind mills? Oh I forgot it does not matter as they are "GREEN". Pollution at its best.
We watch these going up everywhere and cutting through timber filled mountains building roads and substations.IMO. Windmills are changing our weather patterns how many millions of windmills do we need across this country this land God Bless