The spring would need to be *wound* the other direction for it to be flipped and see a difference from a spring direction change if any. Rotating it on its head 180 degrees wouldnt do it. What's unique about the spring isn't that its so strong, a heavier spring would not allow for the assembly to bounce all the way back. It's the whole strategy they used that is fascinating.
Retired Engineer here, you guys are ready for Motion Amplification software. It should work at any fps. This will give greater insight into what is going on inside. Look at RDI.
The spring is most likely painted as a code. Where ever it is manufactured, there are probably others that look similar; but, have a different compression value.
Crazy what you can find out when you actually break the tool down instead of just driving lag bolts to compare stuff. Thanks for your time and passion for tools.
Worked construction for a decade. A small “crew” who beat themselves and tools to death. We had DeWalt tools from the 1990s to 2015. All held up and still going, minus the “concrete mixer” drill. We began trying Milwaukee towards the end as DeWalt batteries would only last a couple years. Remember, batteries cost half as much as the tool back then. Now days it’s closer. We found the Milwaukee tools to be smoother and more powerful. Unfortunately every cordless Milwaukee tool we bought broke within a year. At least 5. As far as corded drills/saws at the time, no comparison. The DeWalts performed better with nearly half the weight. But the corded Milwaukee tools don’t break either. 10-15 years later and I’m hearing the same stories from my buddy who works at a power plant. While I’ve been going towards neither brand, I said I’d lean towards Milwaukee these days. He strongly disagreed as they use Milwaukee and once worked for us. I have no favorite. Hence going to another brand after being invested in one of the big two. Just real stories.
@fZionists78 I've run milwaukee cordless since they came out with the fuel platform. I'm a framer and In that time I've gone thru around six circular saws, 3 Sawzalls, 3 drills, 3 impscts and a jigsaw. Many of the tools and batteries I'm running now are on their way out, also. Even though im heavily invested in tools and batteries I'm ready for a change. Milwaukee isnt getting any more of my money. I've watched other framers burn thru milwaukee tools as well. They just aren't reliable and they aren't worth the money in my opinion. Then again im getting sick of cordless tools in general. They are too expensive, the batteries are too expensive and they dont hold up. I will stick with cordless for the drills and impacts but for everything else im going back to the cord.
Hey y'all. Just wanted to say how much I love this channel and that it has genuinely HEAVILY influenced my tool buying tendencies. I've got most of the heavy hitters (career mechanic that also does a fair amount of work on the side) including the Astro Thor 1984 1/2" and the DCF961. Don't think I'd ever have bought either if not for the hard-earned real world numbers from your channel. Every time a coworker is considering a new tool, I always tell them about this channel first. Keep doing what you're doing, I absolutely love it.
So they designed it to be better in reverse so that it could never put a nut or bolt on without being able to take it off as well. Thats why its better in reverse. Like say if they did reverse the spring and made it better for driving. That would in turn make reverse worse than forward therefore everything you put on and tighten will never be able to be taken off with the same tool if tightened completely to the tools max (which is what alot of people do)
You always say "the tool companies know more than we do" but I very seriously doubt Dewalt did this completely on purpose. I'd bet my paycheck they watched this video and will try to emulate your test methods. This could be a legit consulting gig for you. This is super super valuable info. If you could keep your journalistic integrity for the fans, you ought to be getting seriously paid for this
But it’s an impact driver not an impact wrench. Whoever buys this is going to use the 1/4” hex with an adapter. This is more of a real world test which is what I want to see personally
It always amazes me that the whole mechanism in these tools can handle all that violence for years and years. I have never had any impact driver fail because of an issue with the hammer/anvil/spring breaking. Its always been either the plastic casing fails or at least back in the brushed days was the motor
I doubt that. Those drills and impact drivers are awesome tools. From my experience, they last forever and don’t really need much or any maintenance. Im sure that’s a result of tons of r&d. Unless you’re a Chinese company
Really interesting footage. I think this should be the baseline for dealing with problems. It’s easy to say that something isn’t normal or even broken but investigating it to the point where one clearly sees the fundamental cause is the right way to end the story. This is genuinely good information. Thank you very much!
I've seen videos of the DCF860 driving screws slightly faster than the latest M18 fuel, repeatedly. I wonder if that "dance" has a rhythm in forward that is better timed in a fastener in wood scenario vs the dyno. Otherwise it seems like it would perform worse with all that missing, even considering the slightly higher speed and listed IPM.
Any chance you could do a video on Rivnuts (nut-serts) and how strong they are? Maybe testing torque loads and force required to pull out? That'd be super cool, especially since it doesn't seem like there's any content on youtube covering this. Appreciate the content by the way!
Vibration dynamics is one of, if not the hardest subject in mechanical engineering.... this made me shivers a bit with ptsd. I guess dewalt went to find some PHDs and locked them up in a lab to tune impacts, which is something a lot of tool companies have been doing lately.
For me, the highlight of this video is the roller bearing in the nose. Finally! Combined with the longer, beefier anvil, this should be the low runout, durable impact I’ve been waiting for since the DCF895.
Problem is, the DCF887 already had that… and failed quite regularly under heavy use. The needle bearing was also a weak point on Makita’s XDT14. The 2 sealed ball bearing design on Makita’s newest models is holding up much better. And Milwaukee’s just have a bushing, which likes to seize up or go floppy.
I wonder if there isn't a slight variation between the angles on the contact faces? Say forward being square and reverse being slightly angled to add just enough thrust energy to the hammer to bounce it every second strike? To wind the spring to get the exact change in strength for the direction change would be extremely difficult. The precision required in all aspects of it's manufacture is signifigant and wouldn't come cheap.
I have stood by DeWalt for years and fully endorse them. They have had some bad tools in the past but the quality has been consistent for many years and I would say they have overtaken Milwaukee in some aspects. Their tools haven't been to great lately.
DeWalt seems to have dialed the tool in (the spring) so that you're hitting the natural frequency of the hammer assembly, with the rebound timed in just the right way to get more IPMs out of the assembly. Pretty gnarly vibrations as a result but I'm wondering if they're gonna push this on their future tools.
add to that the models that seem like they have V-Tech like performance programmed in - seems like Dewalt has been studying high rpm engines and adapting the developments made there
@@nickdecker2350honestly it is kinda reminiscent of an A-10 CAS run: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrt... All it needs is impact smoke rising up from wherever you point it. That would be fantastic in the rec room pointed at the TV: Lume female B.O. commercial comes on? Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrt Another pharma commercial comes on? Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrt
if you torque a coil in each direction and it will either expand or contract along both axis (longer/shorter and wider/skinnier). seems like the friction on the spring allows the slightest amount of that torque to 'tighten' the coil when in reverse. where when in forward that torque makes the spring expand in both directions, making it longer, thus harder to compress.
cutting the housing open maybe affect the smoothness of the internal action. definitely looks like the metal cut open formed part of the retainer for the spring and hammer
So if you wound the spring the other way, would you be able to switch the performance and have it work better in forward than reverse? You guys should totally get a custom spring made and try it.
I find all these new tool advancements amazing especially as a mechanic. This year I swapped out all my 1/4" style stuff out for 12v from the 20v because of weight and if I really need the power I'm just going to step up to a 3/8" or larger 20v anyway which thanks to the last few years of crazy competition between the brands has pretty much made these tools monsters compared to when I first started out 10 years ago (anyone remember Dewalt 18v haha). Air power is still king but man I can't remember the last time I had to resort to mine. I actually forgot I had an air powered ratchet (probably because electric ones don't try to break my hand). Innovation is a heck of a thing.
I still have my 18v DeWalt. With those NIMH batteries. Mine still works but the batteries have all gone to shit. If I remember right it was rated at a wrapping 350 inch lbs. My replacement was back in 2005 when makita came out with their first lithium batteries. Still running mine and batteries still work nearly 20 years later. I was lucky to get a few years out of those NIMH ones
Most spring manufacturers color code their springs unless asked otherwise. A yellow spring would have a different force than say a red or blue spring. In an assembly area with access to different spring bins, color coding would help with qc
I wonder if you could put some shims between the 2 ends of the springs to remove some of the torsional spring effect that the spring has to see if that would change the difference between forwards and backwards.
What if you ground down or otherwise removed part of the end of that taper on the hammer. Would it still bottom out? Is it due to stacking tolerances of the spring rate and design of hammer taper? Or is it there on purpose to limit the travel so it bounces back faster?
I'm wondering if the variance in speed has to do with the coil rotation as the torque in the forward mode what would cause the spring to expand whereas in reverse the coil contract inwards allowing for it to hit that likely designed resonance
Hello , is something different between friction ring and detent pin , with the same matterial ? And the friction ring with the hole and without the hold is anything different . Thank you
That’s funny. When I first got my DeWalt impacts (3/8” and 1/2” wrench), I was a bit skeptical. But then I started using them to finish off bolts that MAC and Snap-On both completely grenaded themselves on. Nice to finally see why without having to destroy them.
My late Father never threw away any old power tools and would often repair them for friends. Last week I spent two evenings stripping them all (30+) of their motors for scrap. The Conclusion… 1) DeWalt, old Makita and old Bosch Professional all have motors with more copper windings and just better 2) Older stuff was often much heavier and more complex in design but the internals of more modern stuff is functionally better 3) Really old stuff (like 1980 or earlier) was made for a lifetime even the cheaper brands with steel gearboxes, but the safety is questionable (metal casings with live wires protected by 1mm of insulation). 4) If the model is serviceable (easy access to bush replacement and greasing) then its quality seems to follow.
it might be better - or might be worse - i'm just you're average village idiot, but to me it looks like spring chatter (or spring surge or spring knock - i have no idea) - i thought maybe just a spring with a more progressive curve would resolve - i hope... no i pray lol that TTC starts swapping internals just to see what's theoretically possible. more beasts! more beasts! more beasts! 🤣🤣🤣
I think it might be software limiting on the forward. Pulling off you just want it off so hitting more often works just fine, but putting on you might want to torque after pushing in and by using the slower speed you get a little more control. At least that is my thoughts.
I thought the same thing about, flipping the spring. How awesome that would be to have a 6k IPM impact. Makes me wonder if you got one with the spring put in backwards.
You should do a second channel where you talk like David Attenborough over super slow motion shots of impact mechanisms working. Watching this was like watching Planet Earth but for tools.
Could you make a video on the DeWalt DCF888b? it’s supposed to be able to set torque levels using its toolconnect app, just like the $1400 milwaukee torquesense impact wrench
Hi @TorqueTestChannel, for a buing advice, would you recommend the older DCF850 for consistency and long term usage or this DCF860 as a new id on the block? Thanks
Could you take a look at 26650,26700, 26800, 32700 cells for battery packs. There's some very interesting combinations. It would also be cool to see the new 4680 cells in a pack, you can get 25AH and 250A though the BMS on the market would probably support up to 120A before the wires in the tool start melting and would be a 1.75kg behemoth for just the weight of the cells alone. I have a chart of all cells usable in 3.7v and 3.2v
Can yall test the old school holding the socket in whichever direction the impact is in and see if it makes a difference on Dino. Essentially impact it till it stops the grab the socket with ur hand and see what the difference is on the dino. In the field it makes a world of difference
I wonder if it might be spring wrap. I wonder if the center of the hammer where the spring rides was turned down a little bit then forward would be more similar to reverse.
Yes very enjoyable. Another great reveal on the insides of these tools. Do you know if Dewalt's engineers film their tools like this ? 🤔 Or any of the other tool brands for that matter.
TTC, do you think Dewalt did this sort of thing with the camera on their product during design? Or did it all thru simulations and testing with fully assembled units and never a camera and cutaway?
So, you just discovered "Spring Harmonics" a world very well known to mechanics 😂 nice video, the slow motion really let's you see the spring binding when the hammer spins on the "wrong" way, a sliding plate fixed to the spring fixes that, that's what companies did in cars, no more spring twist when turning the steering.
awesome as always, keep up the fantastic analysis. is a internal swap an option? love to see these internals in its competition, you know for science 😊
AvE is washed up. I also got shadow banned in his comments and paid him for an answer to get unbanned. He just responded that he’s never done that to anyone. Forget him.
AvE , funny, but full of guesses and speculation. Like a kool aid kid who destroys the alarm clock, taking it apart, but when it comes time to put it back together... well. I guess that is what makes him so entertaining.
Would it be possible to decrease the space between the hammer and body, with a washer or something, to increase the likelihood of it going the whiplash effect on a consistent basis?
Put a roller bearing on the bottom of the spring like the early colts have on the bottom of the hammer. Probably stop the harmonics of it scooting forward and let it max out every time like in reverse.
This is actually great. Wonder if resonant frequency is relevant. They should honestly just drill drive forward and impact on reverse. You don’t need an impact gun for anything tightening other than like wood lag bolts
Interesting, I thought it was down to programming as well so just as surprised to see an engineered solution. SBD wizards seemed to have tweaked their magic again! Thanks as always TTC!
Hammer bouncing back is a good sign for torque at the cost to tool shatter. Bounce is a sign for Hammer-anvil junction hardness. Low or no bouncing relates to inadequate junction hardness. Hence energy dissipation into metal as heat. Which kills inertia for torque. If all else are equal, the harder the better energy retention is however at the cost to brittleness and tool shattering in the field under high load. The next advantage for hammer bouncing is that creates hammer-anvil clearance. Through clearance, the hammer have avoided a “cam out” operation just before the retrieve stroke. Cam out operation is when screw driver tip slipping off the bolt head wasting a lot of energy that could benefit tool performance.
Fascinating for sure! I have seen industrial equipment have painted or coded springs for various strengths, lengths etc. but I have never seen this in a tool either. Makes you wonder if some of the first releases have initial beta springs during testing. "That yellow spring tested the best go ahead and start sending them out with that one..."😂
Cool review. So the other channel I saw, that kept having this impact jump out of the screw head wasn't faking it. That back and forth doesn't seem good or right. Seems like a flat out pain to deal with. Having the housing move all over doesn't bode for longevity either. With how lowish powered it is in forward and how stout it is in reverse doesn't seem like a usable, good or balanced tool to me. With all that combined with the highest price out there, this sure seems like a no go. Maybe a bunch of DeWalt fan boys will pick one up but don't think with all the above problems and quarks, it's not really going to get anyone to switch to team yellow and black.
wouldnt of guesssed that its the springs friction causing it ,but makes sense, needs a roller on the spring so it dosnt do that, and 3k rpm,but you have 2 hammers lobes, so a hit every 180 degree not every 360, so 5.7k isnt suprissing for ipm, just need the assembly to be tuned right, no laws of physics broken. could you try adding a slider between the spring and hammer, at leas slip ring, we used them on contra springs on scooters , also made the spring act more predictably, wouldnt get hang up when releasing throttle, and would work basicly the same after long runs, where if you have no slider the spring heats up and changes the properties of the metal
lol... try it with any compression spring, hold it on a flat surface, compress it slightly, and rotate it one way or another... the helix will dictate the direction it prefers. its always easier to rotate with the wind, winding up, rather than backwards, unwinding it... lol, yes, impact "driver" suggests it should work better when tightening... and so it may be for a roofer/builder etc that only ever drives tek screws... the general use of a rattle gun is removing those stubborn fasteners... would be nice to try with a few different variations. like a reverse helix spring... LH instead of RH. a thrust washer... just a bronze washer under the spring. replace spring with a stack of small compression springs in a spider/revolver affair... its also rather strange that the spring isnt a full contact winding... almost like theyre cut from a longer length rather than individually wound. generally a compression spring is wound closed at each end then ground flush for a proper contact surface? of course, theyre building them to a cost, so fiddling with the mechanism is solely for ones personal satisfaction...
The spring would need to be *wound* the other direction for it to be flipped and see a difference from a spring direction change if any. Rotating it on its head 180 degrees wouldnt do it.
What's unique about the spring isn't that its so strong, a heavier spring would not allow for the assembly to bounce all the way back. It's the whole strategy they used that is fascinating.
Please test all the cordless 7/16 hex drive Lineman Impacts.
I 2nd this vote
Retired Engineer here, you guys are ready for Motion Amplification software. It should work at any fps. This will give greater insight into what is going on inside. Look at RDI.
RDI?
FYI dewalt wants it driver back😮😮😮😮
The spring is most likely painted as a code. Where ever it is manufactured, there are probably others that look similar; but, have a different compression value.
I agree. That's the way springs are identified in firearms spring kits if they have multiple choices for hammer and trigger springs.
@@workingguy-OU812yea, that’s the most logical explanation. I know I have several multi colored recoil springs
@@workingguy-OU812 Yes. I am more familiar with that, than is probably good. 😎
This channel is the best thing to happen to the internet
This and "Project Farm".
@@corin164 they should do a collab video
Crazy what you can find out when you actually break the tool down instead of just driving lag bolts to compare stuff. Thanks for your time and passion for tools.
@ToolswithsoAlz
@@pbrlosermachine He needs some work that bloke "You sissies haven't worked on a job site in your life"
DeWalt should reverse that spring and internal helical and call it the DCF861 Driver, while this one becomes the DCF860 Reverser.
Yah I was thinking the same thing.
Yeah!! great idea!
Driver vs Revird
What if it had 2 springs that were opposite?
One being inside the internal diameter of the other. 🤔
@@BolonymanYou never know maybe one day
I'm beginning to think DeWalt has some dark magicians working at their R&D labs.
The tool wizards
Stanley Black&Decker madlabs!!¡
Less Black and Decker, more Black Mesa...
Worked construction for a decade. A small “crew” who beat themselves and tools to death.
We had DeWalt tools from the 1990s to 2015. All held up and still going, minus the “concrete mixer” drill.
We began trying Milwaukee towards the end as DeWalt batteries would only last a couple years. Remember, batteries cost half as much as the tool back then. Now days it’s closer.
We found the Milwaukee tools to be smoother and more powerful. Unfortunately every cordless Milwaukee tool we bought broke within a year. At least 5.
As far as corded drills/saws at the time, no comparison. The DeWalts performed better with nearly half the weight. But the corded Milwaukee tools don’t break either.
10-15 years later and I’m hearing the same stories from my buddy who works at a power plant. While I’ve been going towards neither brand, I said I’d lean towards Milwaukee these days. He strongly disagreed as they use Milwaukee and once worked for us.
I have no favorite. Hence going to another brand after being invested in one of the big two. Just real stories.
@fZionists78 I've run milwaukee cordless since they came out with the fuel platform. I'm a framer and In that time I've gone thru around six circular saws, 3 Sawzalls, 3 drills, 3 impscts and a jigsaw. Many of the tools and batteries I'm running now are on their way out, also. Even though im heavily invested in tools and batteries I'm ready for a change. Milwaukee isnt getting any more of my money. I've watched other framers burn thru milwaukee tools as well. They just aren't reliable and they aren't worth the money in my opinion. Then again im getting sick of cordless tools in general. They are too expensive, the batteries are too expensive and they dont hold up. I will stick with cordless for the drills and impacts but for everything else im going back to the cord.
Hey y'all. Just wanted to say how much I love this channel and that it has genuinely HEAVILY influenced my tool buying tendencies. I've got most of the heavy hitters (career mechanic that also does a fair amount of work on the side) including the Astro Thor 1984 1/2" and the DCF961. Don't think I'd ever have bought either if not for the hard-earned real world numbers from your channel. Every time a coworker is considering a new tool, I always tell them about this channel first. Keep doing what you're doing, I absolutely love it.
I always get a kick out of seeing one tool brand disassemble another brand. It’s silly, but I like to imagine they are sparring against each other.
Yeah it's really kinky
Me too.
Hahaha i do too!
It feels a little disrespectful, doesn't it? Haha!
I might have a dirtier mind, but I always see it as one tool screwing another. Like they are mating. Somehow going to produce little hybrid tools
The painted spring reminds me of primary clutch springs for snowmobiles and atvs, where different colors mean different compression rates
Same inside AT tranny's
Was thinking the same thing!
So they designed it to be better in reverse so that it could never put a nut or bolt on without being able to take it off as well. Thats why its better in reverse. Like say if they did reverse the spring and made it better for driving. That would in turn make reverse worse than forward therefore everything you put on and tighten will never be able to be taken off with the same tool if tightened completely to the tools max (which is what alot of people do)
Have you tried having some shims made to preload that hammer spring a bit more to see how that would effect the performance of the tools?
*affect
touch grass kid @@Slicerwizard
I need to get my hands on that and fit a 3/8" anvil on it!
No more broken adapters 😂
That’s what I did to the 850 as soon as it was released. I’ve been hammering on it every single day in the shop and it’s been an absolute machine.
@@markm0000 Did you go for the 3/8 or 1/2 anvil?
@@ianbaker4295 I do love an impact driver in to an impact wrench conversion 😂
@@BrokeLifeEU the 3/8 anvil. It’s a very easy swap if you buy small retaining ring pliers. There’s videos showing how it’s done.
You always say "the tool companies know more than we do" but I very seriously doubt Dewalt did this completely on purpose. I'd bet my paycheck they watched this video and will try to emulate your test methods.
This could be a legit consulting gig for you. This is super super valuable info. If you could keep your journalistic integrity for the fans, you ought to be getting seriously paid for this
That needs to be tested with an anvil instead of the bit chuck
Would be a wicked mod
But it’s an impact driver not an impact wrench. Whoever buys this is going to use the 1/4” hex with an adapter. This is more of a real world test which is what I want to see personally
DCF921?
@@jasonliblick9879 yes you’re right, but with it favouring reverse and being compact, would make a great compact impact
It always amazes me that the whole mechanism in these tools can handle all that violence for years and years. I have never had any impact driver fail because of an issue with the hammer/anvil/spring breaking. Its always been either the plastic casing fails or at least back in the brushed days was the motor
Steel is an amazing material
Metallurgy is an Art and Science
This channel is awesome.
You appear to have put more work into analyzing this tool than the manufacturer.
💯💯💯💯💯
I doubt that. Those drills and impact drivers are awesome tools. From my experience, they last forever and don’t really need much or any maintenance. Im sure that’s a result of tons of r&d. Unless you’re a Chinese company
Man, DEWALT came out swinging with this one! Good job!
Cool slow mo footage! That thing hits fast!
Really interesting footage. I think this should be the baseline for dealing with problems. It’s easy to say that something isn’t normal or even broken but investigating it to the point where one clearly sees the fundamental cause is the right way to end the story. This is genuinely good information. Thank you very much!
Love the analysis, and the camerawork is outstanding.
I've seen videos of the DCF860 driving screws slightly faster than the latest M18 fuel, repeatedly. I wonder if that "dance" has a rhythm in forward that is better timed in a fastener in wood scenario vs the dyno. Otherwise it seems like it would perform worse with all that missing, even considering the slightly higher speed and listed IPM.
We also show it driving faster here. Even with the uneven hits all of its faster than an m18. Up to 4750 ipm in fwd at times
That rebound effect could help hammer the drill bit into the screw so it doesn’t strip.
If it doesn't break constantly like the milwaukee they have a real winner.
Any chance you could do a video on Rivnuts (nut-serts) and how strong they are? Maybe testing torque loads and force required to pull out? That'd be super cool, especially since it doesn't seem like there's any content on youtube covering this. Appreciate the content by the way!
Vibration dynamics is one of, if not the hardest subject in mechanical engineering.... this made me shivers a bit with ptsd.
I guess dewalt went to find some PHDs and locked them up in a lab to tune impacts, which is something a lot of tool companies have been doing lately.
This is incredibly interesting! Thanks for this breakdown, guys 🙏🏽
For me, the highlight of this video is the roller bearing in the nose. Finally! Combined with the longer, beefier anvil, this should be the low runout, durable impact I’ve been waiting for since the DCF895.
Problem is, the DCF887 already had that… and failed quite regularly under heavy use. The needle bearing was also a weak point on Makita’s XDT14. The 2 sealed ball bearing design on Makita’s newest models is holding up much better. And Milwaukee’s just have a bushing, which likes to seize up or go floppy.
@@josephfox3901 the 887 doesn’t have a bearing in the nose.
Wonderful video and analysis, thank you for your dedication and for sharing!
I wonder if there isn't a slight variation between the angles on the contact faces? Say forward being square and reverse being slightly angled to add just enough thrust energy to the hammer to bounce it every second strike? To wind the spring to get the exact change in strength for the direction change would be extremely difficult. The precision required in all aspects of it's manufacture is signifigant and wouldn't come cheap.
I have stood by DeWalt for years and fully endorse them. They have had some bad tools in the past but the quality has been consistent for many years and I would say they have overtaken Milwaukee in some aspects. Their tools haven't been to great lately.
DeWalt seems to have dialed the tool in (the spring) so that you're hitting the natural frequency of the hammer assembly, with the rebound timed in just the right way to get more IPMs out of the assembly. Pretty gnarly vibrations as a result but I'm wondering if they're gonna push this on their future tools.
I was thinking the same thing. Looks and sounds like when valve springs just start to float and the valvetrain makes that buzz sound
add to that the models that seem like they have V-Tech like performance programmed in - seems like Dewalt has been studying high rpm engines and adapting the developments made there
@@nickdecker2350honestly it is kinda reminiscent of an A-10 CAS run: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrt... All it needs is impact smoke rising up from wherever you point it.
That would be fantastic in the rec room pointed at the TV: Lume female B.O. commercial comes on? Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrt
Another pharma commercial comes on? Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrt
if you torque a coil in each direction and it will either expand or contract along both axis (longer/shorter and wider/skinnier). seems like the friction on the spring allows the slightest amount of that torque to 'tighten' the coil when in reverse. where when in forward that torque makes the spring expand in both directions, making it longer, thus harder to compress.
This channel is so underappreciated. Great video great work!
This is one of those videos that reminds you to subscribe just by how extraordinary the content is.
cutting the housing open maybe affect the smoothness of the internal action. definitely looks like the metal cut open formed part of the retainer for the spring and hammer
around 8:47 it was probably by accident, otherwise id assume theyd at least have started to try to design something in to make it more consistent
So if you wound the spring the other way, would you be able to switch the performance and have it work better in forward than reverse? You guys should totally get a custom spring made and try it.
turn the spring around I wonder if the spin is making it compress easier with the springs twists rather then against
For that you'll need a spring with the opposite coil direction. Turning the spring around shouldn't change anything.
I find all these new tool advancements amazing especially as a mechanic. This year I swapped out all my 1/4" style stuff out for 12v from the 20v because of weight and if I really need the power I'm just going to step up to a 3/8" or larger 20v anyway which thanks to the last few years of crazy competition between the brands has pretty much made these tools monsters compared to when I first started out 10 years ago (anyone remember Dewalt 18v haha). Air power is still king but man I can't remember the last time I had to resort to mine. I actually forgot I had an air powered ratchet (probably because electric ones don't try to break my hand). Innovation is a heck of a thing.
I still have my 18v DeWalt. With those NIMH batteries. Mine still works but the batteries have all gone to shit. If I remember right it was rated at a wrapping 350 inch lbs.
My replacement was back in 2005 when makita came out with their first lithium batteries. Still running mine and batteries still work nearly 20 years later. I was lucky to get a few years out of those NIMH ones
Nice to see this kind of analysis on a tool which does what it says.
Now replace it with a stacked wave spring and see if the fwd/rev are equal. I bet it'd be a shorter assembly too.
Great Idea!
Most spring manufacturers color code their springs unless asked otherwise. A yellow spring would have a different force than say a red or blue spring. In an assembly area with access to different spring bins, color coding would help with qc
Two videos in a week! 💪🏼
I’ve always wanted to see a brand by brand socket strength and slipping comparison. Huge fan of your videos!
I wonder if you could put some shims between the 2 ends of the springs to remove some of the torsional spring effect that the spring has to see if that would change the difference between forwards and backwards.
What if you ground down or otherwise removed part of the end of that taper on the hammer. Would it still bottom out? Is it due to stacking tolerances of the spring rate and design of hammer taper? Or is it there on purpose to limit the travel so it bounces back faster?
Do you reckon the axial hammering has any effect on loosening, say, rusted out fasteners? Or is the energy too small for that?
Round 4 min you can see a small spark at socket and driver maybe static charge?
I wonder if the direction the recoil spring is wound effects the power output in forward vs reverse.
Quality content unbiased content. This is so much better than Tools with Sol.
I'm wondering if the variance in speed has to do with the coil rotation as the torque in the forward mode what would cause the spring to expand whereas in reverse the coil contract inwards allowing for it to hit that likely designed resonance
Could this be driven by bench power? Could try to tune the volts and see if it would improve with future battery tech
Hello , is something different between friction ring and detent pin , with the same matterial ? And the friction ring with the hole and without the hold is anything different . Thank you
That’s funny. When I first got my DeWalt impacts (3/8” and 1/2” wrench), I was a bit skeptical. But then I started using them to finish off bolts that MAC and Snap-On both completely grenaded themselves on. Nice to finally see why without having to destroy them.
Could the face angles on the anvil also be different? Might cause the harder deflection of the hammer in one direction.
My late Father never threw away any old power tools and would often repair them for friends. Last week I spent two evenings stripping them all (30+) of their motors for scrap. The Conclusion… 1) DeWalt, old Makita and old Bosch Professional all have motors with more copper windings and just better 2) Older stuff was often much heavier and more complex in design but the internals of more modern stuff is functionally better 3) Really old stuff (like 1980 or earlier) was made for a lifetime even the cheaper brands with steel gearboxes, but the safety is questionable (metal casings with live wires protected by 1mm of insulation). 4) If the model is serviceable (easy access to bush replacement and greasing) then its quality seems to follow.
Love to see a dual spring version of this with beefier hammer and motor. Might not fit in the same class but the idea shows promise
it might be better - or might be worse - i'm just you're average village idiot, but to me it looks like spring chatter (or spring surge or spring knock - i have no idea) - i thought maybe just a spring with a more progressive curve would resolve - i hope... no i pray lol that TTC starts swapping internals just to see what's theoretically possible. more beasts! more beasts! more beasts! 🤣🤣🤣
I think it might be software limiting on the forward. Pulling off you just want it off so hitting more often works just fine, but putting on you might want to torque after pushing in and by using the slower speed you get a little more control. At least that is my thoughts.
Wow, that was interesting! I'm gonna watch it again on Monday the 11th.
I thought the same thing about, flipping the spring. How awesome that would be to have a 6k IPM impact. Makes me wonder if you got one with the spring put in backwards.
You should do a second channel where you talk like David Attenborough over super slow motion shots of impact mechanisms working. Watching this was like watching Planet Earth but for tools.
He's American, it's genetically impossible for him to speak like Attenborough.
Could you make a video on the DeWalt DCF888b? it’s supposed to be able to set torque levels using its toolconnect app, just like the $1400 milwaukee torquesense impact wrench
Hi @TorqueTestChannel, for a buing advice, would you recommend the older DCF850 for consistency and long term usage or this DCF860 as a new id on the block? Thanks
Could you take a look at 26650,26700, 26800, 32700 cells for battery packs. There's some very interesting combinations.
It would also be cool to see the new 4680 cells in a pack, you can get 25AH and 250A though the BMS on the market would probably support up to 120A before the wires in the tool start melting and would be a 1.75kg behemoth for just the weight of the cells alone.
I have a chart of all cells usable in 3.7v and 3.2v
Can yall test the old school holding the socket in whichever direction the impact is in and see if it makes a difference on Dino. Essentially impact it till it stops the grab the socket with ur hand and see what the difference is on the dino. In the field it makes a world of difference
It's worth inspecting the ramps. I suspect they have a different pitch in fwd vs rev.
It looks like the forward rotation may tighten the coil of the spring reducing it's length. Just the opposite will occur in reverse.
I wonder if it might be spring wrap. I wonder if the center of the hammer where the spring rides was turned down a little bit then forward would be more similar to reverse.
Yes very enjoyable. Another great reveal on the insides of these tools. Do you know if Dewalt's engineers film their tools like this ? 🤔 Or any of the other tool brands for that matter.
TTC, do you think Dewalt did this sort of thing with the camera on their product during design? Or did it all thru simulations and testing with fully assembled units and never a camera and cutaway?
So, you just discovered "Spring Harmonics" a world very well known to mechanics 😂 nice video, the slow motion really let's you see the spring binding when the hammer spins on the "wrong" way, a sliding plate fixed to the spring fixes that, that's what companies did in cars, no more spring twist when turning the steering.
Hey. Let me suggest this. How about a stronger spring? Could you do that?
Great a two episode week on the torque test channel
Wow! That is one cool impact! That camera you have is vrey cool. Thank you have a good day!
I think ave talked about this in one episode awhile back how to get way more out of the tool with it ballanced like this.
awesome as always, keep up the fantastic analysis. is a internal swap an option? love to see these internals in its competition, you know for science 😊
That fwd rebounding reminds me of the triple hammer Hikoki you guys tested, it's definitely a powerhouse
Neat and clean version of AvE
No one can replace AvE though.
AvE is washed up. I also got shadow banned in his comments and paid him for an answer to get unbanned. He just responded that he’s never done that to anyone. Forget him.
AvE , funny, but full of guesses and speculation. Like a kool aid kid who destroys the alarm clock, taking it apart, but when it comes time to put it back together... well. I guess that is what makes him so entertaining.
Would it be possible to decrease the space between the hammer and body, with a washer or something, to increase the likelihood of it going the whiplash effect on a consistent basis?
Put a roller bearing on the bottom of the spring like the early colts have on the bottom of the hammer. Probably stop the harmonics of it scooting forward and let it max out every time like in reverse.
Congrats on 401k subs
Wow, TCC and Project Farm videos for Sunday. (No surprises from Todd).
This is actually great. Wonder if resonant frequency is relevant. They should honestly just drill drive forward and impact on reverse. You don’t need an impact gun for anything tightening other than like wood lag bolts
Can the collet be swapped for the DCF850?
How often does that which the drill is attached to not move?
PLEASE test all the cordless 7/16 hex drive Lineman Impacts.
What about dual hammer? One on the back and one on the front, and no/very soft spring? this way it would rebound into another anvil...
A-10 go: 8:38
You know the big brands watch the channel. Will be interesting to see if they get a spring wound in the other direction and truly make it a driver.
Interesting, I thought it was down to programming as well so just as surprised to see an engineered solution. SBD wizards seemed to have tweaked their magic again! Thanks as always TTC!
has TTC considered testing Line Laser Levels?
How does it get pulled back and under spring compression?
Hammer bouncing back is a good sign for torque at the cost to tool shatter. Bounce is a sign for Hammer-anvil junction hardness.
Low or no bouncing relates to inadequate junction hardness. Hence energy dissipation into metal as heat. Which kills inertia for torque.
If all else are equal, the harder the better energy retention is however at the cost to brittleness and tool shattering in the field under high load.
The next advantage for hammer bouncing is that creates hammer-anvil clearance. Through clearance, the hammer have avoided a “cam out” operation just before the retrieve stroke. Cam out operation is when screw driver tip slipping off the bolt head wasting a lot of energy that could benefit tool performance.
If you reversed the spring would it increase the forward speed?
I just saw something similar to this on Steve Morris UA-cam channel. It’s all about spring harmonics.
Fascinating for sure! I have seen industrial equipment have painted or coded springs for various strengths, lengths etc. but I have never seen this in a tool either. Makes you wonder if some of the first releases have initial beta springs during testing. "That yellow spring tested the best go ahead and start sending them out with that one..."😂
Cool review. So the other channel I saw, that kept having this impact jump out of the screw head wasn't faking it. That back and forth doesn't seem good or right. Seems like a flat out pain to deal with. Having the housing move all over doesn't bode for longevity either. With how lowish powered it is in forward and how stout it is in reverse doesn't seem like a usable, good or balanced tool to me. With all that combined with the highest price out there, this sure seems like a no go. Maybe a bunch of DeWalt fan boys will pick one up but don't think with all the above problems and quarks, it's not really going to get anyone to switch to team yellow and black.
wouldnt of guesssed that its the springs friction causing it ,but makes sense, needs a roller on the spring so it dosnt do that, and 3k rpm,but you have 2 hammers lobes, so a hit every 180 degree not every 360, so 5.7k isnt suprissing for ipm, just need the assembly to be tuned right, no laws of physics broken. could you try adding a slider between the spring and hammer, at leas slip ring, we used them on contra springs on scooters , also made the spring act more predictably, wouldnt get hang up when releasing throttle, and would work basicly the same after long runs, where if you have no slider the spring heats up and changes the properties of the metal
Seems like the spring winds up and releases in forward causing the inconsistency
The impact head reminds me of the spicy soda can, with the long travel and super thick spring
How do you remove a broken and stuck tool from the 860 collet?
lol... try it with any compression spring, hold it on a flat surface, compress it slightly, and rotate it one way or another... the helix will dictate the direction it prefers. its always easier to rotate with the wind, winding up, rather than backwards, unwinding it...
lol, yes, impact "driver" suggests it should work better when tightening... and so it may be for a roofer/builder etc that only ever drives tek screws...
the general use of a rattle gun is removing those stubborn fasteners...
would be nice to try with a few different variations.
like a reverse helix spring... LH instead of RH.
a thrust washer... just a bronze washer under the spring.
replace spring with a stack of small compression springs in a spider/revolver affair...
its also rather strange that the spring isnt a full contact winding... almost like theyre cut from a longer length rather than individually wound.
generally a compression spring is wound closed at each end then ground flush for a proper contact surface?
of course, theyre building them to a cost, so fiddling with the mechanism is solely for ones personal satisfaction...