A couple of aspects of sword and sorcery that isn't often mentioned: In S&S there aren't typically elves, dwarves, goblins. trolls and the like. For the most part S&S worlds are populated by humans with maybe some mysterious subhuman races living outside of civilization. Also, magic is rare and usually troublesome if not outright evil. No Gandalfs in sword and sorcery.
@@LiamsLyceum Yeah, and other fantasy authors have trodden Tolkien's path so thoroughly it's practically a highway now. I far prefer S&S and would like to see it make a comeback.
great point! from what i've seen, there is no white magic in s&s, only black sorcery and often human sacrifice. it really gives the world a dark and gritty feel which separates it from tolkien-esque fantasy.
Personally I think that’s a shame. Because I do like elves, dwarves, and orcs to be in sword and sorcery along with humans. One thing that turns me off about reading fantasy though is the politics and worldbuilding. Like come on, man. If the environment is described to be a forest of some kind, I’ve been in one before. More character drama and less worldbuilding and politics.
@@nicholascauton9648I think your problem is more about over-exposition than actual world building. Having characters say what you're looking or interpreting as if you're a 5 year old is always annoying. Anime always does this which is why i hate it so much. I still get your point though, you want more focus on the characters and less of the world.
There are a decent amount of current S&S works, but they’re sorta underground. I’m planning to read Frolic on the Amaranthyn by Chase Folmar soon, and it just came out
I've never heard the term 'Sword and Planet' used before which is why I've always considered Edgar Rice Burroughs as a forefather of the 'Sword and Sorcery' genre. John Carter is a fabulous example of the type of hero that symbolises the genre and ERB also had his less popular Venus and Pellucidar series (the latter being a 'hollow Earth' setting so not exactly another planet).
*AWESOME OVERVIEW!* ❤❤🧙♂🧙♂ Fritz Leiber's stuff led me down the Sword & Sorcery novel rabbit hole when I was like 14 (I'm 58 now), that I've never thought / wanted to free myself of it! Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser are thee most awesome buddy team! I *LOVE* Michael J. Sullivan's The Riyria Revelations and The Riyria Chronicles mainly because the two main characters are modeled after Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser! I truly appreciate ALL the authors you mentioned, Liam, as people really don't grasp that there *ARE* others out there besides R.E. Howard / Conan. In the mid-80's, I was unacquainted with C.L. Moore when I'd picked-up Jirel of Joiry in the Ace paperback edition (with the *exquisite cover* by the late Stephen Hickman!), but when I saw the words "GRAND MASTER" atop their name and the title, I knew I had to find more of their work! Obviously, I was also unaware that C.L. was a woman! I was a huge fan of John Jakes "Brak the Barbarian" and really liked Andrew J. Offutt's "War of the Gods on Earth" series (which were also heroic fantasy).
This was facinating! I especially loved the quote on free will and charting ones own destiny. Neat to understand how that works what you said earlier about this genre not being focused on saving the world. I also enjoyed some of the examples you brought up. I read The Elric Saga many years ago and want to reread it with this in mind. Thank you for putting this together!
This is great man! Thanks fir clearing this up. I have considered the smaller scale forgotten realms books as this. That's why I like forgotten realms it has allll kinds of stuff. Epic. Dark. Sword and sorcery. And much more.
I failed to mention Kull officially as the first, but oh well. I haven’t actually read any Imaro yet but I’m hoping too soon, I have to find a copy first.
You realize Red Sonja as we know her was NOT Robert E. Howard's creation in the least, right? The only Sonja Howard wrote had nothing to do with the genre.
Heyoo just came across your channel and finding out what S&S is. I Tried hoping into the discord but its invalid you still got a community on it open to the public?
Are you taking about Whetstone discord? I’m not sure which one I reference here but likely that one. I just put an updated link in the description for it
I’d check out David C. Smith’s Sometime Lofty Towers, Scott Oden’s A Gathering of Ravens, Howard Andrew Jones’ Lord of a Shattered Land, Chase Folmar’s Frolic on the Amaranthyn. Also check out the magazines Tales from the Magician’s Skull, Whetstone, and New Edge Sword & Sorcery.
Also I’m trying to track down a copy of the Naama War by Charles r Saunders and the two books in his Dossoyu series, if u have it and are willing to sell I would pay a generous amount. Thanks
WHETSTONE? WHAT KIND OF WEINER SPENDS TIME ON THEIR DISCORD???
*opens the Whetstone Tavern Discord for the 38th time today*
A couple of aspects of sword and sorcery that isn't often mentioned: In S&S there aren't typically elves, dwarves, goblins. trolls and the like. For the most part S&S worlds are populated by humans with maybe some mysterious subhuman races living outside of civilization. Also, magic is rare and usually troublesome if not outright evil. No Gandalfs in sword and sorcery.
Very true, and lots of these are because most of those tropes are established by Tolkien, who came later and has a different literary timeline.
@@LiamsLyceum Yeah, and other fantasy authors have trodden Tolkien's path so thoroughly it's practically a highway now. I far prefer S&S and would like to see it make a comeback.
great point! from what i've seen, there is no white magic in s&s, only black sorcery and often human sacrifice. it really gives the world a dark and gritty feel which separates it from tolkien-esque fantasy.
Personally I think that’s a shame. Because I do like elves, dwarves, and orcs to be in sword and sorcery along with humans. One thing that turns me off about reading fantasy though is the politics and worldbuilding. Like come on, man. If the environment is described to be a forest of some kind, I’ve been in one before. More character drama and less worldbuilding and politics.
@@nicholascauton9648I think your problem is more about over-exposition than actual world building. Having characters say what you're looking or interpreting as if you're a 5 year old is always annoying. Anime always does this which is why i hate it so much.
I still get your point though, you want more focus on the characters and less of the world.
Criminally underrated genre now. someone needs to go all in with a new character.
There are a decent amount of current S&S works, but they’re sorta underground. I’m planning to read Frolic on the Amaranthyn by Chase Folmar soon, and it just came out
The rugged individualist is currently hated and demonized by our culture.
I've never heard the term 'Sword and Planet' used before which is why I've always considered Edgar Rice Burroughs as a forefather of the 'Sword and Sorcery' genre. John Carter is a fabulous example of the type of hero that symbolises the genre and ERB also had his less popular Venus and Pellucidar series (the latter being a 'hollow Earth' setting so not exactly another planet).
*AWESOME OVERVIEW!* ❤❤🧙♂🧙♂
Fritz Leiber's stuff led me down the Sword & Sorcery novel rabbit hole when I was like 14 (I'm 58 now), that I've never thought / wanted to free myself of it! Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser are thee most awesome buddy team! I *LOVE* Michael J. Sullivan's The Riyria Revelations and The Riyria Chronicles mainly because the two main characters are modeled after Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser!
I truly appreciate ALL the authors you mentioned, Liam, as people really don't grasp that there *ARE* others out there besides R.E. Howard / Conan. In the mid-80's, I was unacquainted with C.L. Moore when I'd picked-up Jirel of Joiry in the Ace paperback edition (with the *exquisite cover* by the late Stephen Hickman!), but when I saw the words "GRAND MASTER" atop their name and the title, I knew I had to find more of their work! Obviously, I was also unaware that C.L. was a woman!
I was a huge fan of John Jakes "Brak the Barbarian" and really liked Andrew J. Offutt's "War of the Gods on Earth" series (which were also heroic fantasy).
I need to get another copy of Jirel of Joiry, mine is hardcover and missing the dust jacket
This was facinating! I especially loved the quote on free will and charting ones own destiny. Neat to understand how that works what you said earlier about this genre not being focused on saving the world. I also enjoyed some of the examples you brought up. I read The Elric Saga many years ago and want to reread it with this in mind. Thank you for putting this together!
My pleasure, hopefully it’s concise enough while still giving a good idea. I’m hoping to continue Elric in the new year, myself.
This is great man! Thanks fir clearing this up. I have considered the smaller scale forgotten realms books as this. That's why I like forgotten realms it has allll kinds of stuff. Epic. Dark. Sword and sorcery. And much more.
My pleasure. Forgotten Realms is what got me into S&S actually, and I agree with the nice variety FR has.
Thanks, Liam. Nice video
@@creweluc4732 thank you
I think you're right that the definition of Sword & Sorcery should apply to films and such, as well as books. Great video!
Really interesting breakdown! I can't wait to read some of the S&S books I've recently gotten!
Good man 😇
I finally found her!
It's C.L. Moore, not "Ciel Morris" like I heard.
A book title like for Charles R. Saunders would have helped a lot there.
Sorry! I hold up a book by her in the accompanying video, Classics of Sword and Sorcery Fantasy Literature.
Thank you for making this essay. Great job.
My pleasure, thank you!
Ahhhh great stuff, thanks for this one! Looks like I've got some additional reading to do with the Black Gate piece.....
It’s pretty thorough, especially when differing S&S from other Heroic Fantasy
Wow over one thousand views, these videos are doing great!
Look at you breaking out Imaro! That’s awesome! And a great video! You know your stuff.
I failed to mention Kull officially as the first, but oh well. I haven’t actually read any Imaro yet but I’m hoping too soon, I have to find a copy first.
Good idea for a video! Nice job.
Thank you!
Great video
You realize Red Sonja as we know her was NOT Robert E. Howard's creation in the least, right? The only Sonja Howard wrote had nothing to do with the genre.
Yes, I realize Red Sonya is not Red Sonja but the latter only came about because of the first.
Great video. Genre breakdowns are hard to put together.
I feel like I missed a few things but didn’t want it to be too long but neither unhelpful. Thanks 😊
Well done.
Thanks!
Heyoo just came across your channel and finding out what S&S is. I Tried hoping into the discord but its invalid you still got a community on it open to the public?
Are you taking about Whetstone discord? I’m not sure which one I reference here but likely that one. I just put an updated link in the description for it
what are some modern sword and sorcery writers or novels?
I’d check out David C. Smith’s Sometime Lofty Towers, Scott Oden’s A Gathering of Ravens, Howard Andrew Jones’ Lord of a Shattered Land, Chase Folmar’s Frolic on the Amaranthyn. Also check out the magazines Tales from the Magician’s Skull, Whetstone, and New Edge Sword & Sorcery.
microphone, good man, microphone...
Awesome video, very informative! Who is the author you mentioned after Scott Oden?
Jen Williams and her Copper Promise books, and then Violette Malan after her.
Also I’m trying to track down a copy of the Naama War by Charles r Saunders and the two books in his Dossoyu series, if u have it and are willing to sell I would pay a generous amount. Thanks
Sorry, I don’t have copies. I’m in the same boat, Saunders’ stuff is generally hard to find right now. 😔
@@LiamsLyceum thanks for your replies! I recently spent quite a lot for the first 3 Imaro books in their original prints.