Personally, hydrogen - apart from the cost for smaller scale usage - has so many wonderful characteristics, including its energy density (~ 120 MJ/kg, 3 times gasoline), safety, environmental positives etc. As we are considering a move to solar/battery, I would love to utilise hydrogen but the up front cost is prohibitive. We're in Australia so Lavo would be our best option but at this point is too expensive, and for us, 5kW is not enough (at 240V = ~20A). As with your electric aviation channel, I'm always impressed by your contributions - many thanks from Sydney, Dave
I worked with a company 20 years ago that banked their existance on hydrogen energy. It didn't work out. That said there should be a simple solution to hydrogen production and storage. Still applaud the efforts. To make things even, the lithium is warranted for 10 years but proper use lasts much longer. Just saying
The big question for me is the efficiency? If my solar panels make 10kwh, and we use that to put into hydrogen, how much will we get back? I know with batteries that the answer is about 9.6kwh. So the loss isn't much at all. If the seasonal storage version gives a reasonable round trip efficiency then it could be interesting.
They say with the conversion from renewable energy to hydrogen en back from hydrogin to AC en den converted to DC, the efficiency will only be 38%, so from every 100 watt generated only 38 watt can be used in the house. I also wonder if this kind of system will do a better job.
@@boukeelsinghorst4848 Do you talk about cars, where the heat is waste? Hydrogen cars have an efficiency about 30%, But without the losses for fuel transport and compressing and with the use of heat in winter, the efficiency should be about 70%.
@@minimalist_h So you are agreeing the efficiency (electrical energy out / electrical energy in) is 38%. But you are saying that the lost energy (which will be heat) helps warm the building. So, these units may be best suited to colder climates. Just want to check if that is what you are saying.
Efficiency is everything! Batteries are about 90% efficient, but most hydrogen systems I've seen are about 25% efficient on a round trip basis . That said I think this system uses metal hydride to store the hydrogen and I've heard of a system using such technology achieve 50% efficiency. That's still not enough to compete. Now 40kWh doesn't turn my head at all. I'm getting a 10kWh battery and that will be more than sufficient to store daytime solar to the night time, and even have surplus to cover a cloudy day for 9 months of the year. My last challenge in my house is to capture the enormous surplus during the summertime and use it in winter. For that I need about 3MWH of storage. Now this product should be scalable. I wouldn't need additional electrolysers and fuelcells after all, but I do need the storage to be scaled upto 3MWH. Now if the waste heat from the fuel cell could be scavenged and put into the house in the winter time, then the effective efficiency could be improved further. Maybe combining this product with a heatpump could improve efficiency further!
Hydrogen 'might' make sense as a way to store excesses of power in summer for winter use but not at this price, the diy space will probably figure out a way to do it at s 10th of the price before a business get the price down low enough.
Price (although important) is not the main factor here. We all have to work for a future for our children.... if price was always standing in our way, we’d all be doomed! 🤦♂️
can you please do a video on black mantas suit from aqua man ? it looks practical to me and might be ST we can build with present technology. what do you think?
This technology is promising but really expensive for a regular household. The story will be the same as photogalvanic technology 15 years ago. We have to wait till chinese mass production going to broke down the price and it will be affortable for everyone.
I have been following these solutions with wish to install them on my home. Question: you mention the cost of the LAVO unit but not of the PICEA. Have you any information on this?
I have planned to buy a LAVO system. They company is 100km from my home and I produce 50kWh per day on average. The price is A$32,000 for 40kW with a life of 30 years (much longer than my own }. That is very competitive with other battery systems. My only apprehension is the cost of annual servicing. The tap water needs to be purified before use. You need to quote the German company based on 40kWh so there is a sensible comparison.
I love the idea but a price of $22,000 scares me. With a power bill of $100 per month how long would it take to pay that off? But for the future, sounds great.
For day-night storage in my view this doesn't make a lot of sense since batteries can handle this easily and will always be more efficient than hydrogen storage. For seasonal storage I find it very interesting, but in that case the 40 kWh of lavo doesn't make sense because this will only help you through the first days of winter. The homepowersolutions storage quantity is excellent and can indeed get a normal household through the winter, although the datasheet on the website mentions 1500 kWh, not 15000 kWh like mentioned at 2:22. But 1500 kWh is more than sufficient for a normal household.
Ok think about how much fossile fuel was used in the production of mining lithium, then think of dangers of lithium and then of course you can't forget the life expectancy of the lithium . hydrogen by way of electrolysis and storage is way more cost effective .100 dollars a month would take 18 years to repay it self . well in ca energy bills in the summer are 250 to 650 dollars a month take those numbers and hydrogen then becomes more and more affordable
This picea is a high pressure storage system and that is going to soak up a lot of power. A H2 fuel cell is only about 40% efficient, then you have losses through the inverter. All of which means you are going to be down to about 20% efficiency...thats terrible!!
so a hydrogen truck comes by to refill it every year or so? I just don't think hydrogen makes any sense, after all these used EV batteries start getting connected to the grid for end of life use then we will have enough buffer to handle the times we don't have wind or sun. Hydrogen just seems like a lost cause because it just doesn't make sense and is not the direction everything is going. They use to make natural gas heat pumps with 5hp Briggs and Stratton engines too but guess what, it was a dumb idea that just introduced levels of complexity for no reason. Still like your video, and info.
We’re going to need everything they can manufacture or create to produce energy. We’re quickly finding out without fossil fuels you cannot run a society. Going green at a flick of a switch isn’t working, and it will take many many years to get us even close to where we were before. Everything takes oil, as it’s used in just about every product we manufacture. So in my mind, we have to use everything including hydrogen.
@@synergyfiles3536 The UK has been exploring converting it's gas network to hydrogen for a number of years and has pilot schemes running. The UK has an old housing stock. My home is a 500 year old grade II listed (protected) in a conservation area. Solar, heat pumps and most recommendations for greening a home are not going to work either because of the building construction and or conservation legislation. Gas is the only efficient and cost effective way to heat the house. so either that or this are very interesting to me and use our green energy supplier to create the hydreogen off-peak and use it and the electricity as needed or hope the UK government pushes green hydrogen generation harder. Boiler conversion is not that difficult and new boiler must be manufactured to the Hydrogen Ready Standard.
Personally, hydrogen - apart from the cost for smaller scale usage - has so many wonderful characteristics, including its energy density (~ 120 MJ/kg, 3 times gasoline), safety, environmental positives etc. As we are considering a move to solar/battery, I would love to utilise hydrogen but the up front cost is prohibitive. We're in Australia so Lavo would be our best option but at this point is too expensive, and for us, 5kW is not enough (at 240V = ~20A). As with your electric aviation channel, I'm always impressed by your contributions - many thanks from Sydney, Dave
I worked with a company 20 years ago that banked their existance on hydrogen energy. It didn't work out. That said there should be a simple solution to hydrogen production and storage. Still applaud the efforts.
To make things even, the lithium is warranted for 10 years but proper use lasts much longer. Just saying
Residential Lithium will be used for 20 years... 6000 cycles
Hps picea should go public and invest in automated factory and aim for mass production and cut costs.
Well Done. Thank you for the info. I try to stay ahead of the curve. It's people like you I rely on to help educate me. Thank you again.
You are so welcome
The big question for me is the efficiency?
If my solar panels make 10kwh, and we use that to put into hydrogen, how much will we get back?
I know with batteries that the answer is about 9.6kwh. So the loss isn't much at all.
If the seasonal storage version gives a reasonable round trip efficiency then it could be interesting.
When you need elecrtricity AND heat, you should get back about 70%.
They say with the conversion from renewable energy to hydrogen en back from hydrogin to AC en den converted to DC, the efficiency will only be 38%, so from every 100 watt generated only 38 watt can be used in the house. I also wonder if this kind of system will do a better job.
@@boukeelsinghorst4848 Do you talk about cars, where the heat is waste? Hydrogen cars have an efficiency about 30%, But without the losses for fuel transport and compressing and with the use of heat in winter, the efficiency should be about 70%.
@@minimalist_h So you are agreeing the efficiency (electrical energy out / electrical energy in) is 38%. But you are saying that the lost energy (which will be heat) helps warm the building. So, these units may be best suited to colder climates. Just want to check if that is what you are saying.
@@chriswright9096 right
Efficiency is everything! Batteries are about 90% efficient, but most hydrogen systems I've seen are about 25% efficient on a round trip basis . That said I think this system uses metal hydride to store the hydrogen and I've heard of a system using such technology achieve 50% efficiency. That's still not enough to compete.
Now 40kWh doesn't turn my head at all. I'm getting a 10kWh battery and that will be more than sufficient to store daytime solar to the night time, and even have surplus to cover a cloudy day for 9 months of the year.
My last challenge in my house is to capture the enormous surplus during the summertime and use it in winter. For that I need about 3MWH of storage. Now this product should be scalable. I wouldn't need additional electrolysers and fuelcells after all, but I do need the storage to be scaled upto 3MWH.
Now if the waste heat from the fuel cell could be scavenged and put into the house in the winter time, then the effective efficiency could be improved further. Maybe combining this product with a heatpump could improve efficiency further!
25% efficient on a round trip basis - it is right
I do envision the power of hydrogen use as fuel. Cost is the main obstacle. Hopefully, it will succeed.
Hydrogen 'might' make sense as a way to store excesses of power in summer for winter use but not at this price, the diy space will probably figure out a way to do it at s 10th of the price before a business get the price down low enough.
Price (although important) is not the main factor here. We all have to work for a future for our children.... if price was always standing in our way, we’d all be doomed! 🤦♂️
Really Good
I had dismissed hydrogen storage any costing on the large system. Your videos are excellent. Liked your solar cells video as well.
It would be so great to have flywheel energy storage for home.
I've seen some for microgrids, but haven't got any prices.
Interesting idea. I've seen it at a commercial scale but not for home use. When it goes wrong though, they can be extremely destructive!
flywheel sucks, they store energy for very short time.
Extremely Pricey !
though it lasts longer than LifePo4 batteries, the lifetime will not compensate for the cost
can you please do a video on black mantas suit from aqua man ? it looks practical to me and might be ST we can build with present technology. what do you think?
This technology is promising but really expensive for a regular household. The story will be the same as photogalvanic technology 15 years ago. We have to wait till chinese mass production going to broke down the price and it will be affortable for everyone.
Very interesting!
I have been following these solutions with wish to install them on my home. Question: you mention the cost of the LAVO unit but not of the PICEA. Have you any information on this?
I havent got information
The reason is they design a system based on requirements and quote accordingly.
I have planned to buy a LAVO system. They company is 100km from my home and I produce 50kWh per day on average. The price is A$32,000 for 40kW with a life of 30 years (much longer than my own }. That is very competitive with other battery systems. My only apprehension is the cost of annual servicing. The tap water needs to be purified before use. You need to quote the German company based on 40kWh so there is a sensible comparison.
I love the idea but a price of $22,000 scares me. With a power bill of $100 per month how long would it take to pay that off? But for the future, sounds great.
Good
Do it need a combustion engine to convert it in electrical energy?
fuel cell... ICE is a worse option.
For day-night storage in my view this doesn't make a lot of sense since batteries can handle this easily and will always be more efficient than hydrogen storage. For seasonal storage I find it very interesting, but in that case the 40 kWh of lavo doesn't make sense because this will only help you through the first days of winter. The homepowersolutions storage quantity is excellent and can indeed get a normal household through the winter, although the datasheet on the website mentions 1500 kWh, not 15000 kWh like mentioned at 2:22. But 1500 kWh is more than sufficient for a normal household.
Ok think about how much fossile fuel was used in the production of mining lithium, then think of dangers of lithium and then of course you can't forget the life expectancy of the lithium . hydrogen by way of electrolysis and storage is way more cost effective .100 dollars a month would take 18 years to repay it self . well in ca energy bills in the summer are 250 to 650 dollars a month take those numbers and hydrogen then becomes more and more affordable
Hello, in addition to being a supplier of lamps, but also a supplier of energy storage, we hope to have the opportunity to cooperate.
Very good vidéo as Always
Does thé Lavo create its H2 or do we have to refill it from a truck or else ?
No. Hydrogen will be produced by the electrolyser in the system using excess electricity. Thanks
Did the series on superheroes end and if not can you do a video on ant man
Its a good idea
This picea is a high pressure storage system and that is going to soak up a lot of power. A H2 fuel cell is only about 40% efficient, then you have losses through the inverter. All of which means you are going to be down to about 20% efficiency...thats terrible!!
between 10 and 25 % is overall performance, yes.
What happened to hydrogenics?
They deal in large scale systems
Any Links?
I have placed them in the description
so a hydrogen truck comes by to refill it every year or so? I just don't think hydrogen makes any sense, after all these used EV batteries start getting connected to the grid for end of life use then we will have enough buffer to handle the times we don't have wind or sun. Hydrogen just seems like a lost cause because it just doesn't make sense and is not the direction everything is going. They use to make natural gas heat pumps with 5hp Briggs and Stratton engines too but guess what, it was a dumb idea that just introduced levels of complexity for no reason. Still like your video, and info.
We’re going to need everything they can manufacture or create to produce energy. We’re quickly finding out without fossil fuels you cannot run a society.
Going green at a flick of a switch isn’t working, and it will take many many years to get us even close to where we were before. Everything takes oil, as it’s used in just about every product we manufacture. So in my mind, we have to use everything including hydrogen.
No, both systems create and store their own hydrogen
Why storing gas at home? Stuff it into the gas network, gas is needed alltimes, and get it back in winter!
Its Hydrogen, not methane
@@synergyfiles3536 The UK has been exploring converting it's gas network to hydrogen for a number of years and has pilot schemes running. The UK has an old housing stock. My home is a 500 year old grade II listed (protected) in a conservation area. Solar, heat pumps and most recommendations for greening a home are not going to work either because of the building construction and or conservation legislation. Gas is the only efficient and cost effective way to heat the house. so either that or this are very interesting to me and use our green energy supplier to create the hydreogen off-peak and use it and the electricity as needed or hope the UK government pushes green hydrogen generation harder. Boiler conversion is not that difficult and new boiler must be manufactured to the Hydrogen Ready Standard.
@@jamesbailey9512 Thanks for your informative comment
@@synergyfiles3536 We have to change to hydrogen either. We should increase the hydrogen percentage slowly up to 100.
@@jamesbailey9512 Would there be any problems with leakage? Hydrogen being so much smaller than a gas molecule.