First Greek (koine) lesson with Prof. Christophe Rico - Part I
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
- First Greek (Koine) class following the book "Polis" by Christophe Rico, éditions du Cerf, 2009.
Teacher: Prof. Christophe Rico
Assistant: Thomas Rego
The Polis method takes inspiration from the Total Physical Response (TPR) method, according to which learning foreign languages should follow the physical and oral process by which a mother tongue is acquired -- a process in which stages of passive learning precede those of active learning.
In this very first Greek class students are expected, following the TPR method, to show their understanding of the languages by performing the orders (in Greek!) given by the teacher.
The main innovation of the Polis method is the application of the TPR technique to so-called "dead" tongues, which it attempts to teach as though they were "living" ones. Hence, since it stimulates all the cognitive faculties of the student, the Polis method facilitates the acquisition of the grammar and vocabulary, and enables one, after two years of learning, to read and understand a simple text without dictionary or translation.
For more information about the Polis Institute, see: www.polisjerusa...
For more information about the book and the method, see: poliskoine.com
Your enriching comments are most welcome. Please respect the rules of courteousness while expressing your views.
These videos have great ideas for classroom activities. It would be great if Rico could share more of these teaching type videos as a model to other teachers. But, none the less, thanks for sharing!
The pronunciation of the koini is sufficiantly different from Modern to cause some confusion if tried in Greece. But is close enough to Modern to be understood after a while. I know Modern Greek and find this fascinating.
I am amazed at the hateful comments made here! Especially that one needs to learn Modern Greek before learning Koine Greek. Why? The rules of grammar are almost completely different, syntax is different, even definitions are different. No one is 2,000 years old so no one can say with assuredness how words were pronounced. The Erasmian pronunciation at least allows for remembering vocabulary much more easily as the vowels and diphthongs aren't flattened as in Modern Greek. Being Greek doesn't automatically give you some divine insight into Ancient Greek. Stop with the bitter comments, you're arrogance is showing!
Actually Koine/Hellenistic Greek sounded almost exactly like modern Greek. You confuse the reconstructed Greek pronunciations which pertain to Archaic and Classical/Ancient Greek with the Koine/Hellenistic. Koine/Hellenistic Greek which is the dialect written and spoken at the time of Christ sounded almost exactly like modern Greek. The so called modern Greek pronunciation is actually very old, since it mostly evolved within the timescale of the Koine/Hellenistic dialect, some 2000 years ago approximately. Furthermore, grammar, syntax, and definitions are almost exactly the same. Again, don't confuse Koine/Hellenistic with Classical/Ancient. Most of the words in the Bible are used even to this day within the Greek society, and this is also a reason as to why you won't find any Greek natives in any Koine Greek dialect seminar.
Pate Yate thats hilarious because I know Modern Greek and I understand perfectly what this man is saying, even if his accent it strange. No, the languages aren’t separate and they aren’t that different. Saying how the languages are so old and so different is, incorrect, and simply an excuse for not learning it appropriately and not improving accents.
Yes, the hateful comments are very rude as well as quite arrogant. Prof. Rico explains what pronunciation conventions he uses and why at the start of the Polis book. The commenters act like he just doesn't know what he's doing or has no reason to do it. They should read that before they comment. As you noted, the point is that he is trying to use a pronunciation convention that maximizes the distinctions that were shown in the spelling. While some of the sound changes of Modern Greek were already present in later Koine of even the 1st century, he is going for a pronunciation that would reflect how things were at the start of the Koine period (close to Erasmian) to maximize distinctiveness and also has some additional concessions to make things easier to modern learners, such as use of "th", etc. It is quite close to the phonological system in place at the start of the Koine period as evident from linguistic and historical evidence. Additionally, as all Koine is united by conventions of spelling and the Greek pronunciation of the early period reflected that spelling, spoke use using this pronunciation leads most naturally to acquiring literary fluency, as opposed to Modern Greek pronunciation in which distinctions between rough and smooth breathing, many vowels, and vowels and diphthongs were lost.
It is additionally amusing that some Modern Greek speakers say they understand him perfectly. That implies that using this pronunciation is close enough to modern to be understood by some Modern Greek speakers, fairly accurately reflects reconstructions of early Koine, and maximizes your ability to distinguish and read written words after oral practice. Sounds like a win-win-win to me.
Some modern Greek people want you to use Modern Greek pronunciation just as some Italians want you to use Ecclesiastical pronunciation for Latin (which is much closer to modern Italian pronunciation than a classical Latin one). Both languages were spoken over vast areas over a huge span of time with great variety in pronunciation. How they ended up being used by Greek Orthodox clergy or Roman Catholic clergy may not be the most important factor when considering which pronunciation you want to adopt as a learner.
@@josvah I worked with a Greek. When we read Homer he had a lot of trouble. They’re as different as Modern English is from Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. More, if you consider much of the syntax.
@@anthonycapoccia92 Just wanted to clarify that the gentleman speaking in the video is comprehensible to modern Greeks _despite_ his Erasmian pronounciation. The syntax and vocabulary he uses is similar to that of modern Greek that it is immediately intelligible to modern Greeks. To modern Greeks, he is basically speaking a kind of posh Greek with a funny accent.
As to the existence of diphtongs and accents in koine Greek that was likely because Greek was a tonal language (like e.g. Mandarin Chinese) and foreign speakers of the lingua franca of the ancient world needed some help to be able to pronounce the different tones of similar syllables correctly. The Erasmian pronounciation fails to represent this.
Really a very good video to learn Koiné. But there are just four videos. It would be very very good if you follow publishing your classes.
wonderful wonderful.this is the best way to learn.better learn without thinking just like playing
Thank you so much... this together with the book, has really helped me learning Koine Greek. Using a few other traditional course books too. The two together, this approach, with the other is really rocking! UA-cam videos i have found with these practical conversations and demonstrations to illustrate what the words mean, have helped tremendously. Although this pronunciation seems more likely to be close to the original, I still find Paul Nitz UA-cams videos online to be helpful too.
Ich finde diese Methode hervorragend. Die Aussprache ist praktikabel und in sich logisch. Congratulation! And I recommend the book, too!
Still though I am going to get through this book and try to incorporate what he knows with what I know. Thanks for all your work.
it is good to repeat the words in other situations,so the mind gets accustomed to the words.i like greek language
excellent teaching method =D would sure enjoy to be in this class =)
It is a very interesting discussion. I think that what professor is pronoucing it´s de pronoun en dative case so as to construct de dative posesive structure, a common use both classical greek and latin (so as in the koiné). That´s the razon, i think, of the pronounciation "moi". Greetings to everyone.
That's correct, as in ancient Greek grammar. I think a lot of people are missing the point of this.
This is koine greek not modern greek so pronunciation is different, We learn how Koine Greek was pronounced by greek manuscripts of the time
A study of the Greek Cypriot dialect would offer much insight into the pronunciation of older forms of Greek with many ancient forms still present.
Regarding the pronunciation of Koine Greek please look up and research the following resources:
“The Development of Greek and the New Testament: Morphology, Syntax, Phonology, and Textual Transmission”; “The Error of Erasmus and Un-Greek Pronunciations of Greek” by Caragounis
A book on NT Greek that shows the Modern and Erasmian pronunciations is “A Basic Grammar of New Testament Greek by George Hadjiantoniou”.
Do a Google search on these words: itacism, textual variants, development of the pronunciation of Greek.
@regelemihai this comparison with English is stupid. Greek is a completely different language than English.
a quote from wikipedia:
" According to one estimation, "Homeric Greek is probably closer to demotic (Modern Greek) than twelfth-century Middle English is to modern spoken English."[12]"
εὐχαριστῶ μὲν οὖν σοι ἐπιθέντι ταύτην τὴν καλὴν κινηματογραφήν. ὠφελίμη γὰρ ἐστιν. βλεπὼν δὲ τοὺς διδασκἀλους διδάσκοντας τοὺς μαθητὰς κἀγὼ τὴν γλῶσσαν τὴν Ἑλληνικὴν μανθἀνω. "πορεύθητι ἐκεἶ. ναὶ ἐκεἶ." οἱ μαθηταὶ κινοῦσιν μεν, μανθανουσιν δε. εὖγε φίλτατε!
What are you saying? That modern day Greek pronunciation sounds close to the one from 2000 years ago?
Not even English sounds the same it did 200 years ago.
The problem I have is mixing Koine Greek with Modern Greek. We need to find words from Ancient Greek that can be used to replace Modern Greek terms like "para kalo"...for instance, or Lalei Gallisti. There were no words for French and gallisti is modern greek. We need a system to make modern words into Ancient Greek parlance. the -isti ending is not an Ancient Greek ending for a word. There is : -ιστος, -ιστου, -ιστῳ,-ιστον or -ιστη -ιστης, -ιστῃ -ιστην, etc. Maybe I am wrong but I haven't come across an Ancient Greek word ending in -iστι. Unless there is a 3rd declension word out there with this ending I haven't seen it yet. Regardless, it would be third declension dative, so it makes sense in his case. But 'para kalo' does not. Possibly we should comb Plato's Dialogues and see how Socrates responds to his interlocutors to get a sense of dialogue format. The book is a good start but like always it seems we are not getting it right, no matter what we do. The pronunciation of iota subscript should always be pronounced, always. It makes no sense not pronouncing it. Also Lalie (λάλει) is a Greek word I have never seen in Ancient texts so far. Eipon (εἴπον) mostly. So Lalei seems odd. But it is in the Ancient Greek Dictionary as "chatter." I would comb Homer, Plato, Greek Tragedy, and lastly the Bible for conversational type words and use those.
Soooo, because you haven't read a word in texts that YOU read, this word doesn't exists? I'm laughing
"Γαλλιστί", 'Βρετανιστί", "Ελληνιστί" are not nouns but adverbs. There are many similar adverbs in ancient Greek texts with that ending, f.i. "λακωνιστί", "αττικιστί", "βοιωτιστί", "δωριστί" e.t.c. for a person that speaks Laconian, Attic, Boetian, Doric.
www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=attikisti&la=greek
"Λαλώ" is also very common. There is a famous ancient Greek proverb, Τὸ σιγᾶν κρεῖττόν ἐστι τοῦ λαλεῖν. Even in Paul's 1st letter to Corinthians, there is a very known passage, Ἐὰν ταῖς γλώσσαις τῶν ἀνθρώπων λαλῶ καὶ τῶν ἀγγέλων, ἀγάπην δὲ μὴ ἔχω, γέγονα χαλκὸς ἠχῶν ἢ κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον.
www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0155%3Abook%3DI+Corinthians%3Achapter%3D13%3Averse%3D1
Anway very nice video and method
Εὐχαριστω! It would be really great if there is transcription of this class.
Anyway, very useful, thanks for posting it!
There is a transcription of all the commands used in these videos in the Polis book on pages 1-3.
J'étudie avec cette méthode. Existera-t-il un deuxième livre?
il y a quatre vidéos, mais pas de plus :(
Αυτό έπαιξε στο Δελφινάριο;
Love it:)
I think "θές ὕδωρ εἰς τὸ ποτήριον" is correct, but not "... ἐν τὸ ποτήριον". Doesn't matter, some mistakes are just unavoidable. And I may be wrong, because I don't know very well κοινή - I work mostly with Attic. I am really amazed with this method. I ahve been teaching ancient greek for years and always wanted to work (also) in this way. In general I follow the same convention for the pronunciation. But for me: η and ω are always open and respectively ε and ο are always closed. I do (cannot) not differentiate ´, ` and ^ with musical (pitch) accent. I only stress the vowels. As far as I can notice, you do the same in this method (with rare exceptions). My book arrived today and I will surely make the most of all your material with my pupils (specially the videos and the songs). Enthusiastic congratulations to Prof. Rico and to Polis Institute! Hopefully I will eventually learn ancient ancient Hebrew and ancient Arabic with you!
I can say εν το ποτήριον sounds just normal for NT Greek and Katharevousa Modern Greek, meaning "in" and not "into". BTW how was your experience with the method? I am thinking of buying it too, but there is not second volume, right?
Telikos, ekousa schedon olon to video! Ti esti video eis ten Koinen. Kai nun ekouon olon to video! Ta Anglika ouk uperche osan glossan eis auten ten epochen. He Bretanike glossa en Keltike glossa!
Is there a list of the pronunciations of each letter used in this video?
im sorry I'm not fluent in Greek, i am in the learning process but i know the history of the Greek language
The method is really excellent and I have already learned a lot. But after all this discussion on pronunciation I started to study it and found it interesting that actually no one is teaching NT Greek with the most reliably reconstructed Roman period pronunciation. I found a good book on the history of Greek by Geoffrey Horrocks, it is freely downloadable. Even the Wikipedia article on Ancient Greek pronunciation is very good. But this work of scholars seems not to have produced any practice in teaching Greek. All Ancient Greek in the tube seems to be pronounced either with Modern Greek way or with Erasmian rules, and of the latter, the most with a heavy American accent. The pronunciation in this video is actually the least bad one I have found.
I have found some interesting materials after I wrote my last comment. In fact, there are Ancient Greek texts pronounced according to the most reliable reconstruction. UA-cam does not allow posting links, but you can find these materials by searching "Greek Restored pronunciation".
+Santeri Junttila Randall Buth at the Biblical Language Center uses the restored first century pronunciation.
Yes, When you actually try to use the language, it forces a lot more thought about pronunciation and what we should sound like, so It is no wonder videos like this have much more pleasant sounding pronunciation. I love the work that Polis is doing. And Yes, like Joseph says, the BLC (Biblical Language Centre) does use restore Koine pronunciation, but they do not have many videos on youtube either.
Est-ce que ce livre est un methode avec succes pour les etudes koine?
Peut-etre je veut l'achete.
Oro hoti eichate pollen somatiken gymnastiken kai poly treximon meta tou mathematos. Sygnome ean syncheo anameson ton Neo-Hellenikon kai Archaion Hellinikon alla manthano diakrinein anameson ton duon, xaris tois video eis to youtube! Ta video edokan me pollen apolausin kai eucharistisin. Eucharisto Hymin.
Ouk eida akoma olon to video alla phainetai moi kalon dia ten somatiken gymnastiken, idiateros to treximon! He prophora homoiazei meta tes prophoran tes Neas Hellinikes: Mepos o kathegetes Hellenas estin. Sygnome ean symplexo ta archaia meta ton Neon Hellinikon.
How different is Koine Greek, in your estimation, than the Greek you speak today?
I mean, what the professor speaks in this clip sounds like modern day Greek to me.
What am I missing?
Thanks.
regelemihai This is not modern Greek at all. It is not ancient Greek either. It contains many unknown words oh and the pronunciation is way off
He is using a type of "seminary" pronunciation that Christians use in seminaries. The video title uses the phrase "Koine Greek" because it uses the stage of Greek that was used approximately around the time of Jesus.
which one are you talking about there is two pronunciations of Koine Greek, Erasmian and Reconstructed. Since this is Koine Greek the pronunciation will be different than Modern since its a 2000 year old pronunciation
Technically this is not Erasmian, nor Reconstructed, nor Koine, but yes this is not Modern 😀
αιτουμαι, σε, φίλτατε, ποιησαι κινηματογραφας Ελληνιστι, χρᾶμενος τῃ προφορᾳ σου. αἱ μεν τοῦ Ρικω οφελιμαι μοι εισιν, τας δε σου ουκ οιδα.
πολλα χαιρω ιθι!
One question, he uses πιάσον/πιάσατε την σφαιραν (piason/piasate) in the sense of "catch the ball". As far as I can tell these forms come from the verb πιάνω (catch), which is a __modern__ Greek verb. I can't find in the Perseus ancient Greek dictionaries. Can anyone confirm/correct this?
Francisco Tornay Yes you are right. It is called "prostagi" προσταγή = he gives a command to other/s to catch the ball
«τό ὄνομα μοι/σοι» ἤ *«τό ἐμόν/σον ὄνομα»* I really thought it was the latter. What pronunciation are you applying? I'm not an expert but it seems to me like a mixture from different periods and a bit inconsistent. Also the accent in some words seems rather off... For example shouldn't «ἐλθὲ» be stressed on the last syllable?And what form exactly is στηθι? I thought the word should be ἵστασο or something, the other seems like the dative of the word "breast" or am I missing something?
στέθι is the aorist imperative of "ἵστεμι"
It's koinè greek, not attic greek.
In the Bible you can find examples like
ὄνομα αὐτῷ Ἰωαννής
And people who are there are learning more biblic greek than classical greek.
Wow, relax! I'm just asking a question. I'm asking because I read and speak Hebrew fluently, and I just how different ancient Hebrew is from modern day Hebrew.
If you don't have an answer to my question, have the courage to admit it.
No need to be a frustrated jerk.
Muito bom!
He's teaching greek, in greek!
Ὄνομά μοι Δαυιδ.
Στῆθι, κάθισον, περιπάτει ταχέως, παρακαλῶ περιπάτει βραδέως.
ὦ Δαυίδ, κράξον τὸ ὄνομά σοι, παρακαλῶ! 😄
Pollai ton lexeon paramenoun eis ta synchrona Hellinika.
Didn't mean to sound harsh. Tired of foreigners explaining what Greek sounded like to native speakers. Yes, there is undeniable proof that many pronunciations described as modern were already in use at that time (αι starts being pronounced as ε already in classical times, ει as ι...). Comment section on YT too short to allow for detailed answers.
Not bad but the accent to a native Greek speaker is off. I don't think that can be helped. Also, now that I think about it, many non ethnic Greek speakers of Koine Greek back then probably spoke it with a local accent. The majority of the people learned Greek because it was the trade language and the language of state and not through formal education. So this is probably how a non Greek from the era of Christ in say Roman Britain would have spoken Greek.
Ενω αν πας στην Κρήτη ή στην Κύπρο τα μιλάνε σωστά τα Ελληνικά. Έτσι είναι η τοπική τους προφορά πιστεύω γι αυτό σου ακούγονται περίεργα τα Ελληνικά τους. Δε φτάνει που μαθαίνουν Αρχαία Ελληνικά, τους τη λες κιόλας. Κάνεις και τον έξυπνο εσύ ο Ελληνας παντογνώστης. Που γνωρίζεις 2-3 λέξεις στα αρχαία και το παίζεις και κάποιος.
Καλή προσπάθεια αλλά η προφορά της γλώσσας έχει αρκετά λάθη.
Lol see things differently? what are you talking about? are you seriously saying the greek language did not change from the New Testament period to modern Greek?
search for:erasmian pronunication
It's been widely accepted for a few decades now that Erasmian pronunciation is anachronistic.
Poor Alicia, Her worst nightmare at 45:40 :D:D:D
ὄνομά μοι Λέανδρός ἐστιν 🙂
Απίστευτη κωμωδία που δεν πρέπει να την χάσει κανείς!!!!
Idk. I think the real joke is unevidenced Greek jingoism while they take money from the EU.
Koine? Whot's đat? It a seems đa prufessur is duing most'v đa tawking - which is bad fr lurning. đa studunts shud be tawking t each uđur.
Yada yada yada, the same old answers from people who refuse to see things differently and accept common sense stuff.
english way is to primary to speak the greek way
6:30
7:10
Sorry friend but you are wrong, the proffessor is trying to speak greek, but it pronounces it in latin with american accent.
An American accent? That’s a good trick, since he’s French.
Koine is Ancient Macedonian Language is not Greek , but , the Politic go so far , i cant imaginage how people sey everiting is Greek if is form Ancient time , so so bad for some one who belive that is Greek , bicouse the Ancient Greek is so deferent and not have a nothing same whit this language.
κλαμα
Αφού η γνώση σου της ελληνικής είναι άπταιστη και τα γνωρίζεις τόσο καλά τα πράγματα ώστε να κάνεις και μάθημα σε άνθρωπο του οποίου η μητρική γλώσσα είναι η ελληνική κ᾽είναι και φιλόλογος,ας μιλήσουμε ελληνικά. Λοιπόν, άντε μάθε μερικά βασικότατα πράγματα για την ελληνική φωνολογία και για τις φωνητικές εξελίξεις ανά τους αιώνες (κ᾽την περίοδο κατά την οποία συντελέσθηκαν), ζήσε στην Ελλάδα 5 ή 6 μήνες να συνηθίσουν τα ώτα σου και μετά έλα να μας την πεις.
*ἑλληνίδα* φωνήν ... not sure about the rest, I'm not that fluent, but Ἑλλάδα is the accusative of the country/place Hellas, not an adjective of any kind.
Sure and my name is Barbie and I'm a princess. It would be easier to convince a Xtian to become a Muslim, then an atheist then a Buddhist than to have foreigners accept basic facts about the pronunciation of Ancient Greek.
May I ask you If modern greek people understand the ancient greek language?
ου=u. Μου=mu, σου=su. You don't know even the basics.
xaxaxaxax
The students should speak more! The girl Alicia didn´t say a word for a long time´andd only the teacher spoke!
The method used here is basically TPR (Total Physical Response), whose primary tenet is not to pressure the learner to start speaking from the very beginning, thus creating anxiety ending in shutting oneself down. This and some other methods claim that like children, the foreign language learner first have a silent period in which they get accustomed to the language sounds and grammar, and then start speaking when they are ready. TPR underlines that in children's acquisition of their mother tongue, they mostly react to the caregiver's commands, point to actual things they want etc., first understanding what they are called and then utter them. It is often quite fun but the teacher has to be a little bit more relaxed and friendlier than this :)
Goes to prove how the contemporary pronunciation (sooooooo wrong according to foreigners who know soooo much better how Greek sounded like 2000 years ago without a single recording from that time and without ever taking the contemporary phonology into account) teaches you to accentuate correctly ΘωμΑΑΑΑ and not *Θώμα or render the enclisis ὄνομά μοι audible loud and clear. Ἀλλὰ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ unfortunately.
HA HA HA this is funny,could be maybe from 5 CENTURY GREEK? as someone comments learn to speak modern before Ancient unless you wanna study a bible study
Koine is the most common dialect in all remaining Greek texts. If you want to read anything post Golden Age Athens, Koine is a better start than Attic or Modern.
the ονομα μου doesnt sound onoma moi,it sounds onuma muj,and please learn to speak greek first before you speak ancient greek,please..
you may be mistaken, this is not ancient Greek spoken by the native Grecians, this is the Common Greek that was used throughout the territories of where the Old Greek empire once had and was used up until 330 ad.
The pronunciations would have been different depending on the area which spoken, so for Koine greek it is very arguable when it comes to pronunciations of letters and dipthongs.
what is Grecian?
koine greek is used later than 330
Yes, indeed Koine Greek was a common language between the time of 330 bc and 330 ad. and is the dialect in which writings such as Works of Josephus, Septuagint, and the New testament were written in, and is important to learn in order to study such writings.
yes,but the pronounciation is the same as modern,only some grammar changes
tiktaktik tamtamtam The pronunciation of Koiné was actually not the same as of Modern Greek, but that's right that ονομα μου is strangely pronounced here as if it were "ονομα μοι".
Please start speaking Greek fluently, spend a couple of years in the country to get a grasp of the phonology, learn how early in time (already from the classical period onwards) "modern" changes occurred, and then start talking. Enough with foreigners telling what Greek sounded like when they don't even speak the language and haven't even set foot in the bloody country.
Wow. What's your evidence Dr. Rico hasn't done this already...?