Michael Shermer Tests the Polygraph and Lie Detection Part 2
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- Can the polygraph machine really scientifically measure if someone is lying, or are all those graphs and numbers just pseudoscience in the service of law enforcement? Can we tell if someone is lying to us by their body language or facial expressions? Michael Shermer puts both the polygraph and lie detection to the test in this dramatic episode that features O.J.'s jury consultant lie detection expert.
Body language can only tell you when people are feeling uncomfortable, worried, excited, happy etc. But many people get used to one particular body language which they tend to show when neutral and this varies greatly.
Yeah they were pretty lousy...
I wonder how much of it is cultural. Would Joe Allen be as good if she interviewing people living in other countries?
I'm not the slightest bit impressed with this Jo Ellen.
And the woman who sits and argues that body language is not a 100% safe - does she know anything about science? 80% hit rate would be really good. Who asked for 100%?
Me too, Ive the EXACT same experience. I get nervous & anxiety often for no reason, sometimes the slightest hint or mention of something that reminds me of something uncomfortable or negative. Mere thoughts of those things can send me into panic, especially bad memories or reminders of previous panic attacks. I've always had this fear that I'd be accused of a crime I didn't do & fail a polygraph b/c I'm nervous & the police think I did it b/c I panic & get anxious when interrogated & show fear.
My careers ruined because she thought I was lying about my college communications club. Oh well, if you want to make an omellette...
I think that the point was that the body language (admittedly not a science) is more accurate than the polygraph (calmed to be science.)
Police interviews can ask difficult questions and also bring in evidence after someone has started telling their side of the story. The object is making them think you have more evidence on them than they do. This would help exaggerate the "fear of lying" in order to help distinguish in a polygraph test. Similar to confessions, the results cannot be used to conclusively sentence someone but they could change the direction on where to look for evidence, such as in a murder trial, a confession can help the police home in on who to look for evidence for rather than trying to look for evidence possibly from multiple people. Obviously if no evidence is found of the confessor or failed polygraph testee actually committing the crime then back to the search elsewhere.
The test isn't so great. When you are supposed to lie (like they were instructed to), you lie differently than you would if you lie if you rehearsed the lie or if you lie about something you honestly want to lie about. Lying about stupid stuff like stealing office supplies doesn't invoke the same response. They might have also changed their body language when they were supposed to tell the truth which they normally wouldn't have done if they didn't know this was a test. Hawthorne effect.
oh yea another thing, it'll suck for someone who's unfaithful to have her as a wife. you can't get a way w/ anything.
Microexpressions... Indeed. They are the crucial skills to any human lie detector.
I agree with Furlong, body language is just as flawed as the polygraph, high stress situations always illicit a response that can be conceived as betraying a lie, when it may simply be discomfort.
She asked questions that were a easy target for them to lie about "have you ever stole office supplies" haha.. Take some one who was walked to the meeting and take someone that has been sitting for 45mins up to the meeting and let's guess who shifts there wait more...
The better you get at detecting lies the less friends you'll have. Sometimes you accept what people say without believing them because if they wanted you to know they would have told you.
Not because you spot lies it means you have to reveal them all.
In that case you don't have friends because of lack of social skills, not just because you spot lies.
No doubt, there are "countermeasures" to human lie detectors as well, though they may not be as simple as a couple physical exercises. Against a practiced liar or a good actor I doubt her skills would be worth much at all. Which is fine as long as she and her clients keep that in mind, and that it's more art than science.
I think with knowledge about the techniques used to detect lies, people will eventually come up with ways to move those techniques into obsolescence. Joe Allen can be fooled with practice. All one needs to know is find out what she is looking for.
They should put that Tim the waiter guy from the "bottled water" and "the best" episodes of Penn & Teller Bullshit for her to test. I bet he could lie through all questions without her noticing a thing.
Michael Michael - you didnt double blind the test with the woman and the body language... she might have read your body language - cold reading, during the sitting with you.
She's certainly good though. This reminds me of Malcom Gladwell's "blink." I'm pretty good at spotting liars, as are most people really, but I haven't developed the expertize to get really good.
Just goes to show...some people lie better than others!
King Robert... Well actually it depends on who is judging. I mean according to this video, no matter what you do and no matter how you hold your body or say words, you’ll be perceived as a liar and not a truth teller.
yah that's the good way to do it instead of measuring their heart beat or whatnot
I'm confused by the inclusion of the Clinton bit, because it doesn't seem valid to compare Clinton's grand jury testimony (something less familiar, where he is being questioned on alleged criminal behavior) with his public speaking (something very familiar, where the pressures are more political in nature than legal). They're totally different settings.
... you gotta use a frying pan.
No, body language can't be fooled.
Very especially the microexpressions, there are certain muscles in the face that only reacts unconsciously, and emotions you can't be block consciously, those are shown even without your knowledge.
But isn't that entirely subjective and based solely on the biases of the observer?
A man who does not admit to making mistakes can't recognize when other people are making them. So what are your mistakes then, oh yes falling for the ETFO myth!
I believe body language does say something, but requires high training and natural environment. If I get to learn some tricks beforehand I'd easily fool her. (but not everyone's learning tricks, right?)
It seems like people who has social anxiety give a lot of the same reactions as people who are lying. A person could be telling the truth and be accused of lying simply because they show how uncomfortable they are.
Exactly
One word...inadmissible. Polygraph tests are inadmissible in the court of law, they do not provide definitive, conclusive evidence. You could make the argument that they represent a gut instinct, no more. Some people call it `lie detector` but it is incorrect as it does not detect lies, it is the person behind it that decides if you lie or not based on vital signs of the body the machine reads. Polygraps were designed as an intimadation & interrogation tool and for that they work pretty well! The law enforcement carrying out polygraph tests are banking on the examinee being stupid, ignorant & uneducated!
Of course you can get a read off body language. Poker players do it all the time.
that's true yes...but I think Michael is aware of these methods as he has investigated these as well and cold reading on 80 questions....that's tough too
How would you like to be married to her? You couldnt get away with anything!
hahahaha omg too funny
@guitarplayer4real The problem with declining to take a polygraph test is that people will the immediately be suspicious. "If he's innocent, why not take the polygraph?" It's a no win situation. I can't believe those things are taken seriously.
good
You might be one of the lie wizards in potential.
The capacity of spotting lies are based on how well and quick you can identify the personality traits of someone and how well you can identify the odd gestures and voice intonations.
Some people do all this subconsciously, they don't know why, but they have a "gut feeling" that something is wrong.
These "body language" experts are terrible people. How many people have been locked up for years because of nonsense like this .. even just because of the sway of public opinion
"office Herbert...." , with that accent. ;-]
However this is much more use than the polygraph. Everyone read a body language book. Trust me you see the world in a much clearer light.
A Dune reference, are you serious? Thats more geeky than me knowing it.
'..just two (2) false accusations.'
And that could translate to 'just two (2)' false guilty verdicts in 'just two (2)' separate criminal trials.
No, thank you. I prefer limiting voodoo and magic to fantasy anime and movies.
what is this guy the new mythbusters?
Question Everything? Except that which comes from people of authority right? So question everything EXCEPT the government, because they would never lie to you. Question Everything except those with PhD's? So if you want to truly question everything, why do you mock conspiracy theorists who have a lot of questions and demand evidence from the government?
@othewire23 Yeah that was pretty bad lying. Hang gliding? Are you serious? Say bowling or knitting.
Lies are easy to spot when they're that obvious. But if you try to catch someone lying when they just move their legs or shift position in their chair, you're going to accuse a lot of people who are telling the truth.
With the interviewees, I dunno if it's a proper test, because when you know you're being scrutinised and you're trying to look as if you're not lying, you tend to act suspiciously anyway, even if you're telling the truth. Also, I think these interviewees might decide to throw her off track by looking as if they're lying when they're really telling the truth. But that doesn't really relate to everyday situations.
blackadder says:
"on occasion I am wrong"
On that he is right.
I wonder how she would fare with someone with Asperger's.
This would be very interesting to try with good poker players
How can lie detector tests even be used at all?
interpreting body language > the body language itself...imho
Wow i must be an expert on body language too. cuz i guesed all of the lies too.
This is a very poor test because Shermer is giving her feedback in the middle of her analysis. This means that the analysis is not solely on body language. It also increases the chances of hits as the analysis progresses.
Poor controls = unreliable results.
This is a shame because I'm sure we'd all like to know what she's really capable of..
he's being around for a while, it's just now you've seen him, well a month ago anyways.
Wow! I learned something unexpected today.
Good body language readers are capable of noticing when someone lies within reasonable accuracy.
It's not 100% accurate and is a lot less (LOT LOT LOT LESS) certain than mathematical laws.
People are varied, but they're also similar, shown in this very study!
bene gesserit witch!
but anyway, all the people here sucked at lieing, OJ, and orthers would be much harder to spot
I'm a big Shermer fan but this is a very sloppy analysis. She's asking obvious questions which, when you get down to it, equate to stuff like, "Have you ever stolen paper clips from work?" When the answer is obviously yes and the person says no, this has nothing to do with body language and more to do with common sense. They should've had a third-party person pre-formulate all the questions to give her less flexibility and force her to judge everything purely on body language.
just pay me i can tell if ur lying
eh, women can see orther women lieing from a mile away IMO