Not a bad suggestion, though an influence-intensive one. Making an Entrance would let us trash the early game copies of Exclusive Party to make the subsequent ones better.
Exclusive Party basically reads "Your minimum deck size is decreased by 6". Absolutely worth playing the first three when that's the case. And you get some credits on top? Seems like it will be very strong.
It's not quite that good but could work about that way in the right deck. There are a number of minor reasons this wouldn't be true. First is influence cost outside of Criminal. Second is that these "force" draw actions i.e. the only way Exclusive Party can be assumed to not take up deck slots is if you always want to click to draw (replicated by playing Exclusive Party) when you have it your hand. If you get Exclusive Party at a time in which you need to be running or just don't need to draw cards, it can be cumbersome. Third is that Exclusive Party is inferior to clicking to draw if you need to increase the number of cards in your hand i.e. if you're clicking to draw up to four to prevent flatine from Scorched, Exclusive Party is worse than clicking to draw. Likewise, playing Exclusive Parties instead of clicking to draw lowers your "Hit Points" against decks that are trying to run the Runner out of cards. I agree that in the right Criminal build what you're saying about it effectively shrinking your deck size is true, but there are definitely situations in which it doesn't work like that.
I use exclusive party in my apex deck where I use the first 2 to 3 copies as facedown installs and then recur them later on. It's actually pretty darn useful in that sense.
I can see it. However, one of the advantages of MaxX is the inherent ability to predict what's coming thanks to cards getting discarded each turn i.e. since stuff is being milled every turn, you get to see a lot more cards and therefore have a better idea of what's still in the deck.
That still happens with MaE, but you get to choose which cards get discarded and which you draw on your next two turns, so your last statement is rather pro-MaE. ;-)
My point is that you already get to do that without playing Making an Entrance. I think Making an Entrance would be better in a deck that didn't get to see 3 cards every turn from the ID power.
I'll have to wholly agree with you regarding Sports Hopper and Plascrete. BUT! You can't deny the cyberpunkness, and the awesome, awesome art that is Plascrete. Both vanilla, and alt art. The flavor is insane. Too bad it never was that great design, as you've stated.
I agree that Plascrete fits the cyberpunk theme very well, though I think it makes more sense to escape an exploding building with a flying car instead of just tanking it with armor ;)
The comparison to Patron is John Masanori, who on an unsuccessful run, tags you. For that extra cred, Patron has no unsuccessful run downside and gives 2 cards.
I'd say that Jinteki shell game has always been very close to tier 1. It finished second at Worlds 2014 and placed in the top 24 at Worlds 2015, not to mention it won several National and Regional tournaments throughout that time span. Here's the World's 2014 list: netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/10877/worlds-2014-2nd-place
I agree that Security Testing is better than Patron. But I believe (like most people that play netrunner) that Wyldside is better than Hard At Work. Why are 2 credits better than 2 cards in the first example but not the second? I don't necessarily think it is the cheaper one that is better. I'm guessing it is to do with the support cards around it. Andy-sucker had a great engine with Desperado, John Mas, Datasucker and Security Testing. The same with Wyldside, Pancakes, Faust, etc. So I guess if Shaper were to get a better run oriented engine Patron would be pretty powerful. However, I think that is Criminal's bit and it would be doing Criminals a disservice if Shaper became good at that style of play too.
Agreed that Shaper will likely not have a playstyle similar to old Criminal i.e. successful-run-based economy. The big thing about Desperado + Datasucker is that it gives you lots of credits to sustain the runs. Patron (and all card draw effects) are better for helping you set up especially early in the game and the three cost isn't conducive to that. Faust has somewhat blurred these lines since it's possible to use Patron to sustain runs with it, but like I said in the video, Quality Time and Diesel are strong alternatives for Patron.
+TheCOGnitiveTherapy I've been using Net-Ready Brahman, London Library for Chameleon(sentry for Swordman) and hailey trigger install D4v1d, you can reverse it if you know you're bouncing both. And then drawing bounced cards with May, it actually works really well.
London Library seems pretty cumbersome, though in the deck you describe it might be okay as a 1-2 of. Oracle May only seems worth it if you can pretty consistently use it to set up early game. Since Hayley decks generally have a spread of Hardware, Resources, and Programs, I'm not sure that I like Oracle May.
+Willingdone if you use Brahman it's pretty easy to know what's on top of the deck ;) I run two Hostage atm and Oracle May, Kati Jones and Aesop as my targets, kinda like it. Library is two-of and not super neccessary but it's nice when you get it, it's nice in any deck running Scavenge because hey free breakers :P
a Making an Entrance/Exclusive Party combo could make the 4,5,6 more consistent.
Not a bad suggestion, though an influence-intensive one. Making an Entrance would let us trash the early game copies of Exclusive Party to make the subsequent ones better.
Exclusive Party basically reads "Your minimum deck size is decreased by 6". Absolutely worth playing the first three when that's the case. And you get some credits on top? Seems like it will be very strong.
It's not quite that good but could work about that way in the right deck. There are a number of minor reasons this wouldn't be true. First is influence cost outside of Criminal. Second is that these "force" draw actions i.e. the only way Exclusive Party can be assumed to not take up deck slots is if you always want to click to draw (replicated by playing Exclusive Party) when you have it your hand. If you get Exclusive Party at a time in which you need to be running or just don't need to draw cards, it can be cumbersome. Third is that Exclusive Party is inferior to clicking to draw if you need to increase the number of cards in your hand i.e. if you're clicking to draw up to four to prevent flatine from Scorched, Exclusive Party is worse than clicking to draw. Likewise, playing Exclusive Parties instead of clicking to draw lowers your "Hit Points" against decks that are trying to run the Runner out of cards.
I agree that in the right Criminal build what you're saying about it effectively shrinking your deck size is true, but there are definitely situations in which it doesn't work like that.
I use exclusive party in my apex deck where I use the first 2 to 3 copies as facedown installs and then recur them later on. It's actually pretty darn useful in that sense.
Hmm, interesting thought. I hadn't considered that use. Pretty cool!
I really see Making an Entrance as a strong card in Maxx, planning ahead your next two turns.
I can see it. However, one of the advantages of MaxX is the inherent ability to predict what's coming thanks to cards getting discarded each turn i.e. since stuff is being milled every turn, you get to see a lot more cards and therefore have a better idea of what's still in the deck.
That still happens with MaE, but you get to choose which cards get discarded and which you draw on your next two turns, so your last statement is rather pro-MaE. ;-)
My point is that you already get to do that without playing Making an Entrance. I think Making an Entrance would be better in a deck that didn't get to see 3 cards every turn from the ID power.
Beware however, that, since MaE is putting the rest of the cards on top and NOT into your grip, you still need to click for cards in other IDs.
I'll have to wholly agree with you regarding Sports Hopper and Plascrete.
BUT!
You can't deny the cyberpunkness, and the awesome, awesome art that is Plascrete. Both vanilla, and alt art. The flavor is insane.
Too bad it never was that great design, as you've stated.
I agree that Plascrete fits the cyberpunk theme very well, though I think it makes more sense to escape an exploding building with a flying car instead of just tanking it with armor ;)
The comparison to Patron is John Masanori, who on an unsuccessful run, tags you. For that extra cred, Patron has no unsuccessful run downside and gives 2 cards.
+AristoWan John Masanori doesn't have the access replacement effect, meaning that you can use both it and Security Testing together. It's also neutral
I can see that comparison, though I'm inclined to agree with the points +Julian GeeEm made as well.
Thanks for the video. Good way for me to keep up, as I've been gone a while. Speaking of which, did a true Jinteki shell game deck ever emerge?
I'd say that Jinteki shell game has always been very close to tier 1. It finished second at Worlds 2014 and placed in the top 24 at Worlds 2015, not to mention it won several National and Regional tournaments throughout that time span. Here's the World's 2014 list: netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/10877/worlds-2014-2nd-place
Wow! I haven't really played since 2013, so this comes as quite a surprise to me. Thanks for the info!
You haven't seen the Anarch deva spoiler? Are you not looking at spoilers in general?
I've seen it, for sure! I just don't talk about spoilers in the videos.
I agree that Security Testing is better than Patron. But I believe (like most people that play netrunner) that Wyldside is better than Hard At Work. Why are 2 credits better than 2 cards in the first example but not the second? I don't necessarily think it is the cheaper one that is better. I'm guessing it is to do with the support cards around it. Andy-sucker had a great engine with Desperado, John Mas, Datasucker and Security Testing. The same with Wyldside, Pancakes, Faust, etc. So I guess if Shaper were to get a better run oriented engine Patron would be pretty powerful. However, I think that is Criminal's bit and it would be doing Criminals a disservice if Shaper became good at that style of play too.
Agreed that Shaper will likely not have a playstyle similar to old Criminal i.e. successful-run-based economy. The big thing about Desperado + Datasucker is that it gives you lots of credits to sustain the runs. Patron (and all card draw effects) are better for helping you set up especially early in the game and the three cost isn't conducive to that. Faust has somewhat blurred these lines since it's possible to use Patron to sustain runs with it, but like I said in the video, Quality Time and Diesel are strong alternatives for Patron.
You cannot use Salsette Slums on cards already in archives.
Good catch. I'm not sure why I made that mistake since I've encountered "you can't trash stuff in archives" before.
brahman.... London library, Oracle may and femme. or cyber-cypher in kit
+TheCOGnitiveTherapy I've been using Net-Ready Brahman, London Library for Chameleon(sentry for Swordman) and hailey trigger install D4v1d, you can reverse it if you know you're bouncing both. And then drawing bounced cards with May, it actually works really well.
London Library seems pretty cumbersome, though in the deck you describe it might be okay as a 1-2 of. Oracle May only seems worth it if you can pretty consistently use it to set up early game. Since Hayley decks generally have a spread of Hardware, Resources, and Programs, I'm not sure that I like Oracle May.
+Willingdone if you use Brahman it's pretty easy to know what's on top of the deck ;) I run two Hostage atm and Oracle May, Kati Jones and Aesop as my targets, kinda like it. Library is two-of and not super neccessary but it's nice when you get it, it's nice in any deck running Scavenge because hey free breakers :P