Mormon Women and Feminism
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- Опубліковано 20 кві 2017
- Kwaku and Ian of the 3 Mormons introduce special guest Elisabeth to discuss the implications of feminism for the LDS Church.
Kwaku first talks about radical feminists and how they aren’t necessary a good representation of what feminism truly is. Instead of looking at the bad, we need to embrace all that is good in feminism. Women in leadership is among the good things and is also very prominent in the Church. Emma Smith was a powerful example of women leaders. And today, there are many women leaders who have a strong voice in the Church. Ian says that ultimately, the Church advocates equality for women.
Elisabeth says that in some regards, men should need to shape up. They shouldn’t be doing things that objectify women. Kwaku and Ian both say that it’s belittling to men to say that they can’t control their passions.
Elisabeth says that being a mom is so much to being a mom. If a woman wants to be in the workforce, she should do so and she shouldn’t be held back. If a woman wants to be a stay at home mom, she should be equally encouraged as those who are in the work force. We need to be supporters of women to empower and strengthen them.
Kwaku concludes that men should not be afraid to fight for women’s rights.
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For a discussion of feminism, you guys aren't really letting the woman talk at all. You're both speaking over her and espousing your own beliefs on the topic.
it bugs me that you haven't introduced your fish.
His name is "Fishy" no joke, and he actually has a large tank to be free in. We just keep him in the bowl for the show :)
studioc gal I find this comment hilarious :)
I've actually not paid that much attention to the fish until you mentioned it. Now I'm looking at the fish a lot. LOL!
studioc gal fish lives matter
Kwaku El "Fishy". I like it!
First time I've been "first comment, view and like". Your guys' channel is awesome! I'm a Mormon, which I've said, and I'm proud of it. I'm still kind of struggling on trying to say my prayers every morning and every night and studying my scriptures. I'm gonna get through the struggle.
These videos are great! I'm a Mormon too and I really like the sort of "open discussion" feel about these videos. You bring up topics that are kind of hard to discuss and talk about them in a church context and it's really great. Keep up the good work!
I love all of your guys videos by the way, they are super awesome!
Loved this!! Fridays have become my fav days because you guys upload :)
I really liked what Elisabeth had to say about stay at home moms! I was raised by a stay at home dad and it is for sure a profession and shouldn't be looked down on. Congrats on the baby!
Siobhan Egan thanks! And I think that's awesome! Dads have such an important role, one I think is often overlooked by society today.
I couldn't agree more with my Catholic brother, we Catholics are sick of the mormon women fixating on our RCC girls and then you have the nerve to copy how they were brought up in their Catholic families how dare you jealous slugs. GO back to hell mormons where you came from there is NOTHING Catholic about the mormons Jims right
I like this a lot (like basically all of your videos lol).
I'm a woman who doesn't identify with third-wave feminism, and on a college campus like Mizzou, that can be difficult (especially in class discussions). On the other hand, I have dear friends of mine inside and outside of the Church who take a completely different stance than I do. And I love that the Church is kind of open to most "good faith interpretations" on issues like this, when it seems like a lot of the world wants to divide us in every possible way.
could u do a video on Sunday routines and what routines Mormons do like ever day when prayer and such
Jim Caponzi I did not imply that. I am not sure if they worship Joseph over god. I find the religion interesting as I do other religions. this does not mean however that I believe in their religion fully, with some things, or not at all.
We don't worship Joseph Smith :) that's actually discussed in an earlier video!
YoYo We pray to our dear Heavenly Father, in the name of His son, Jesus Christ.
It's interesting that the two men keep interrupting/talking over the woman. Hmmm . . . Kind of feels like mansplaining.
Shut up Karen
@@thisguysgaming7246 Thank you for your well thought out and intelligent reply . . . 2 years later - hahahaha
Heather C stop womensplaining me
Here comes the karen
Hey, I was talking to one of my friends and he asked me why our church doesn't have women in the priesthood places and seemed offended. How would you respond to this?
Church is sexist.
some good points....I was surprised in general when I think of fenism I definitely do not have great outlook on it as I have seen too many radicals leading people to ideals that kill the different roles of the two different genders however on the other hand you do make some good arguments for positive things coming from the feminist movement as well.
All three of you gave really good points!!!
"Radical Feminism" is a type of feminism. The way you used radical I think you are intending to refer to "extreme" or "fundamental." Radical feminism is generally the position that the differences between men and women are mostly a social construct. I.E. "Gender norms." It is the idea that there is no male or female brain, there is a human brain. Thus, men and women are not naturally as different as society makes them. Men can be just as vulnerable, women can be just as assertive etc. This type of feminist generally argues gender stereo types are harmful and reinforce a patriarchal society.
Radical feminism is often contrasted with liberal feminism. They differ on many issues. In my estimation most people who identify as feminist today are liberal feminists. By liberal, I dont mean left, I mean liberal in the political ideology sense. I.E. Capitalism, Democracy, individual freedom, etc.
I would go further but my point is that as someone who identifies as a radical feminist, it is off putting to hear that label misapplied.
Feminism from the beginning stated in their own manifesto that the intent was to get rid of the father. Nothing has changed. Look at our society. Masculinty is basically evil. You won. Now kids have no fathers. Congradulations.
Hi I just joined the Mormon church not to long ago and I always get ask this question so can you guys please answer this for me because I'm really not too sure...ok so did Joseph smith ever ever said any false prophesy? How many prophesy did he say and did at lease one of them didn't become true??? Please answer this question this is my 3rd time asking you guys this same question
Nice thank you so much...before I was a Mormon I was teach that there will be lots of fake prophets in this world and that they will teach us the wrong teaching about God and the only way to know if he is a real prophet is by not just praying about it but to but him to the test..so the only test is if he ever said at least one fake prophecy then that is a big sign that he is fake and we should not follow him...what's your thoughts about that?
3 Mormons before I join Mormon church I was just lost and in a really bad place in my life and living here in Utah I talk to some Mormon people and they convince me that this is the only right church but now almost a year later I'm staring to have lots of questions about the church and I the more I try to find answers the more sketchy it is to me...but my church told me to not question and not look up answers in the Internet to just pray and believe what they tell me..it's hard it really is..I think I just need to go to the temple and re gain energy and hope but at this moment I'm not even allow to go to the temple because at my recommendation I said that I did drink coffe every now and then so now I can't visit the temple...what should I do guys ??? HELP ME please
3 Mormons I sure will..thank you so much and keep up the good videos
confusion One time J. Smith went to Canada to sell the book rights of the Book of Mormon (no one wanted it in the United States)
He prophesied that the book rights would be sold in a specific town, basically that everything would work out as he planned.
Well he returned, unable to sell the rights. When people asked how he could have failed when he prophesied what would happen, he said that it was a failed revelation. David Whitmer said that the revelation had come from the devil.
How would you trust Joseph Smith to follow true revelations and make the right doctrine after knowing this?
Painterlywoods wow I didn't know that....yea it seems like the more I search about j.smith the more I find out bad stuff....
Strong, good message! Greetings from Germany!
i think that feminism is something needed, and I think that Women should be able to choose. I mean, if they want to have a family or not, if they want to get married or not, if they want to have kids or not, if they want to be single mothers or not. I think everybody should be treated equally, and no, I don't think women are better tan men, and men are not better tan women. That is what feminism is for me :)
Eva Vv feminism. The idea that only women lack choices...
since we have those things dont you think Feminism should end in the Western world.... i am not sure what you mean by "if they want to have a family or not, " are you talking about birth control or abortion ?
i am talking about having the choice to do whatever they think is better. And abortion and birth control are ways of choice
sorry. i don't think you get to choose to kill a baby because it might be inconvenient to you. women have a lot of choice before it even gets to abortion. when do you think women should be able to have an abortion up to? also what about the mans right to choose if he has a family or have kids? seems unequal because he has no say and will have to pay for the child for the next 18 years.
i dont mean to come across as combative. i hope we can have a discussion about this.
The Prophet's wife did speak to the brethren however she was not a "pastor" or in a leadership role in the Church over the brethren,Equal but different roles.Also congratulations on your new baby!!!! You're so blessed !!!!
Boyd K. Packer is great when it comes to feminism. I wonder what he thinks of Kate Kelly.
and also, about the way we dress, I mean, the amount of clothing that I wear has nothing to be with the kind of person I am, I mean, if I want to wear shorts and a crop top I am not inviting people to look at me, i'm just being myself, and also, I am not Provoking people around me. Society tries to teach us that if we dress with short clothes we are easy women, and I dont think so.
so i do agree with you ^^
I mostly agree, but I think there are places where you need to dress more modestly. Church obviously, Some jobs, school, things like that.
yeah but I dont think that shorts are not modest. or crop tops. People's pov is what makes the clothes "modest". Let me explain myself. If I go ti church in A modest dress that does not make me modest. I can be thinking about How much I hate Gays (Btw, I love Lgbt people) but I would be adress as a modest and a good person. But if I dress with crop tops and shorts ,people would think the worst about me, just because I am confident with my body and maybe I want to become a nun , you know what I mean?
cindybin2001 Completely agree!
Eva: You should be able to wear what you want and it is no one's business. When people tell you what to wear, how to talk, etc. they are trying to control you.
I don't agree with the statement about how there's a problem with feminism with not fighting for men. I minored in gender studies in college (majored in political science), and feminism is for everyone. it goes further than just promoting equality, but shifting the center of what is socially normal and acceptable in society. Feminism is anti-patriarchy and anti hegemonic/toxic masculinity, not anti-male. For example, a big issue in intersectional and inclusionary feminism is how patriarchy and toxic masculinity affect sexual agrression. While women are slut-shamed/used/seen as objects, this mentality hurts men as well because they're subsequently being socially conditioned to treat women that way and in many social settings aren't considered "manly" enough unless they do so. This logic that explores how patriarchy and toxic masculinity hurts both men and women is applied to most feminist issues. One of the most beautiful things about modern feminism is the emphasis on intersections and how racism/classism/ableism/etc are considered feminist issues. While I enjoyed hearing all of your opinions on the topic, I feel like the concept of feminism in the way it was discussed was a little watered down and over simplified, Kawku seemed to be the most knowledgeable and passionate though. I'd suggest maybe doing more research about feminism and its constructs and history before speaking out on the topic "everyday feminism" online magazine is a great rescource for just about every feminist issue.
Sharon Whittaker-Sherman - Naaaaaaahhhhh
You invite a woman to come on and speak about feminism, then you talked over her and completely dominated the conversation. This is a great video of two men talking about feminism and bringing in a woman as a visual symbol and not actually highlighting her viewpoint...
Thank you so much! I am a woman and a member of the church. This is what I mean when I say I'm a feminist. Not as you said, the radical and vocal minority. I hate it when people stereotype me as such.
cheesy: Good - I'm glad you are a feminist - stay that way. Nonetheless, you will never see equality in the Mormon church and one day, if you see it, you will leave. You are allowing yourself to be a second class citizen. You will only get equality when you demand it.
Its so great how the church treats women so equally. You know the rights to leadership (except for anything that makes any sort of policy). Well, okay, maybe just being a leader over other women. But not TOO HIGH of a leader because the men need to have that responsibility because they are just naturally immoral and need the responsibility..... OKAY FINE they're sexist! I loved how all of you just disagreed with one of your apostles when you said its ridiculous to think that women dressing bad causes men to think innaproprately. Gneral Conference April 2005, Dallin H Oaks: "And young women, please understand that if you dress immodestly, you are magnifying this problem by becoming pornography to some of the men who see you"
equal doesnt mean the same. Divine roles. we both have the roles most of us follow.
Yeah I know equal doesn't mean the same. Let me explain in this way: in communism people work in collectives that are lead by collective leaders. The collective leaders are assigned by the government so that people who work in those collectives have no chance of raising their status regardless of their merit. Would you say these two people are equal but just different (that is what communist governments would have you believe too)? No, they do not have equal opportunity and whatever the leader says goes regardless of the merit of those under the leader. In capitalism and true democracy, lower status people have the opportunity, regardless of race, sex, or whatever, to raise into positions of leadership and have authority to change policy. The church does not grant equal opportunity to women in any way, I don't care how you try and justify it. You have to believe that God justifies sexist principles if you are a Mormon. It is an unfortunate circumstance which is one of the myriad of reasons I no longer believe.
not even remotely close to communism because the system is corrupt and the roles arent regarded are equally important. men and women have different roles because we are generally better at different things. i dont really care about if you believe. the church allows women to have some pretty high up positions so if you say they are sexist why would they allow a women to head DesertBook? or why even have a R.S or Primary that is lead by women if you think they are lesser than you? you cant just go around calling people sexist when you have zero evidence. i have never met an actual sexist. also you can look at a lot of stuff in the bible and call it sexist. doesn't mean anything.
First off, I am not saying that Mormons think that women are less, rather that they must follow sexist policies and therefore are sexist. Muslims don't think they are sexist when they tell women they must wear the hijab but the simple matter is that they are sexist. Furthermore, I am not saying that communism=mormonism, I am saying it is the same principle applied to a different system and they are both unjust. I use communism because I know you don't agree with communism and it helps you to get an unbiased perspective on the issue. Women can be in charge of women or children and that is it. Even in those positions, they do not hold priesthood keys (kind of messed up if a deacon's quorum president can, huh?) and therefore are subservient to the bishop's counsel more so than a deacon. Women cannot change policy in the church and never will have that ability and they will never hold the priesthood. They only can become queens and priestesses unto their husbands in the eternities. They are not equal in the household either because the man is the head of the household, it is contradictory to say they have an equal say in their families and then place one of them as the head of the house hold. A man can be sealed to more than one women if he gets a legal divorce to one or if his previous spouse dies and a woman cannot do either of those things. How is this not evidence of sexism? I don't know what you want as evidence of sexism if this is not it. I don't think you believe you are following sexist ideas but that is what you are doing.
If you don't reply I don't blame you because the church says stuff like, "contention is of the devil" and we should avoid it and "anti-mormon stuff" just takes away the spirit and is not good. However, I hope you know that again you wouldn't apply those two ideas to any other thing (at least I hope you wouldn't). You do look at both sides of an argument and try to make conversation to become more informed when it comes to gun laws don't you? How about tax levels? War in Afghanistan? Do you just not look at the opposite argument for religion? Jehovah's Witnesses don't either. Although, they are worse at that then Mormons but you would want a Jehovah's Witness to give Mormonism a chance. You might be willing to read their stuff while they aren't willing to read yours, but you aren't willing to read arguments placed in direct opposition to church, so I am asking you to give me a chance. You are not able to have a balanced position on the issue if you are not willing to investigate. Did you know that Joseph had two 14 year old wives? How about that we have fragments of the original manuscript of the Book of Abraham that falsify claims that Joseph made about it? Or that Joseph Smith would tell people he had visions of where buried treasure was and would lead people to it before he started to whole BOM thing. If you don't believe me, I will direct you to church resources on it.
-14 yr old wife of JS: www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng
-Book of Abraham: www.lds.org/topics/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng
-Treasure Hunting: www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng
Note that these are short versions of history and to get a full understanding of context I recommend reading books like "No Man Knows my History" by Faun Brody (which has questionable conjecture) or "Rough Stone Rolling" by Richard Lyman Bushman, a famous church historian who is an active member
I think it's so amazing that you guys are starting a conversation about a controversial topic but you do realize you're interrupt Elisabeth almost every time she trys to make a comment? That's not feminism.
MORMON FEMINIST X JOSEPH SMITH
"Joannah Southcot professed to be a prophetess and wrote a book of prophesies in 1804: she became the founder of a people that are now extant; she was to bring forth in a place appointed a son that was to be the Messiah, which thing has failed. Independent of this however, where do we read of a woman that was the founder of a church in the word of God? Paul told the women in his day “to keep silence in the church, and that if they wished to know any thing to ask their husbands at home;” he would not suffer a woman “to rule, or to usurp authority in the church;” but here we find a woman the founder of a church, the revelator and guide, the Alpha and Omega, contrary to all acknowledged rule, principle, and order." (Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, 1 April 1842)
Pedro Soares Silva cool, sign me up!
nothing says Feminism more than LDS church
How much is the church paying you to make this? Do you only have to pay 8% tithing?
I'm a very proud anti feminist and a Mormon but those two don't have anything to go with eachother
you barely let her, the feminist, talk
Charlie Boca - Let's face it, nobody wants to hear women speak
This video is two men mansplaining feminism.
Thought 3 Mormons would share more on Church doctrine and the issue of gender discrimination within its ranks, instead the best they could do for the church on this issue is share personal stories and thoughts. But hey the church is hip and pro-females because emma shared a few messages 200 years ago
That will actually come in another video! Don't worry, that situation hasn't been forgotten!
God you guys need to get out of provo Utah and into the actual world
Haha, sooo out of touch with reality, this show only applies to the mormon bubble and their weridness.
Have you considered that the "radicals" are just a natural result in the flaws of the philosophy?
If you define sex relations in an oversimplified framework of privilege and oppressed, casting any inequality as the result of systemic oppression (instead of personal choice), it gives moral backing to justify the bad behavior of the "radicals"
It's a utopian idea that distributions of sex ratios will perfectly fit the distributions of society at large. People have different skills and interests.
None of this is "liberal feminism," which is just about removing discriminatory barriers, it's essentially a marxist idea of equality of outcome that history has already proven can't be achieved
Marx said 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his need', not 'equality of outcome'. Marx and Engels were also NOT utopians, and wrote extensive criticisms of the utopian socialists that came prior. And neither wrote about distributing sex equally between people, ffs.
I get that the powers that be have made sure the average American never reads a paragraph of Marx and couldn't tell communism from neoliberalism if their life depended on it, but sheesh. The far right doesn't know or care what Marxists and feminists actually believe, and their arguments against either are consistently based on a straw-man definition of both. If you get your knowledge of feminism from anti-feminists, and your knowledge of Marxism from pro-capitalists, you're going to have a vary warped view of both.
I am a 1st and 2nd wave feminist. Definitely not a modern day feminist. I don't agree with what they stand for at all.
"Because she's a woman." shame on you guys. wrongly worded. I'm a LDS feminist and I'm a guy.
Anyone agreeing with this is in open rebellion against God, and has bound themselves with chains to be thrust down to Hell. "...and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." -Isaiah 3:12.
sirblackstone don't be such a drama queen!
Real feminism is based on contempt and chip-on-your-shoulder confrontation. 3 Mormons are, I think, talking about what Feminism should be, or would be in a better world.
Glen M. Danielsen Yes yes yes!
Glen: Feminism is the pursuit of freedom and equality. Women must demand Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. There is nothing mysterious about feminism - it is the quest for equality. It is a noble pursuit and should be pursued with vigor. Anything less than absolute equality should not be tolerated in any society. It also needs to be fought for - no man is better than me or any woman.
Yes! Feminism today is cancer
This video was awful. Completely ignorant of what third wave feminism is. The only sensible statement in the entire video was the last remark by Elizabeth.
Lol feminism. What a joke.