I'll just say even John Moses Browning couldn't get 9mm to feed reliably in the 1911. So he designed a gun specifically for 9mm, the Browning Hi-Power.
Actually, I think he went to work for someone else, and Colt had the patent rights to his 1911. A new customer wanted 9 mm guns, and so he invented the HP to avoid patent infringement issues.
I use 9 rd mags, and only load 7 rds. I settled on simply doing it this way, as it's the only sure way around it. It's a little disappointing, but it is what it is. If I load 9, the first round will hit the very bottom of the feed ramp, the second round will hit right below middle and still jam, often setting the bullet back in the case, creating an over-pressure round that I have to throw away. Loading 7, all of them run just fine. This is with Mec-Gar mags and a Clark/Para ramped barrel. I have thought of bending the top of the mag spring under the front of the follower up a little and seeing if it helps to put more pressure under the front of the follower, but have not tried it yet, and don't want to ruin the good thing I have going with my 7 rd method.
I agree. You have a solution for your gun, mags, and ammo. Stick with it and have fun.
My Kimber 1911 9mm mags all tilted some rounds down.
I switched to Wilson mags and the tilt problem is completely gone. Feeds perfectly.
Wilson mags have a longer front and rear skirt that keeps the follower from tilting forward.
The Chip McCormack mag followers are the worst with NO front skirt, they always tilt down.
My experience with Armscor 1911A1 with 8 or 7 rds mags only is they are "more" reliable with feeding with only Seven rds in the mag.
Don't use ten rd mags. I had some break in with my pistol, and, yes, and
Use 230 ball and you will be a happy camper.
Joe chambers from chambers custom recommends using straight wall feed lip 45 magazines in the 10mm 1911 because the follower sits 40 thousands higher and helps with feeding ..I believe I'm heard him say something similar about using 38 super mags for 9mm but he didn't specify the numbers it's something you could research just if your curious about potentially doing it
Thanks David. I’m pretty set on my 1911 approach, load one less, it works for me. However I am curious as to Joe’s approach and will definitely check it out. Others may as well. Thanks again for the tip.
Mr Kelly believe it or not the Ruger and Kimber magazines in 9mm are excellent and seem to be made buy the same company, I know because I have both and have solved most problems but I load them down one round also .
Thanks Lee. I suspect you are right and the gun manufacturers outsource the mags. I suspect both Kimber and Ruger would go for top quality if they do that. I’ve recently seen mags with a leaf spring on top of the follower. That might help as well but it is additional thickness where that is not wanted. Down load by one still seems the simplest solution.
Would the same pressure relief occur by clipping a coil,or two from the magazine spring? Thanks for the fascinating video.
I suspect it would. However, I am not an engineer and am not sure how much to remove. Too much and there might not be enough upward pressure to properly load the last round or so. By downloading a round or two I am comfortable that the rest will function dependably. Just what has worked for me.
I have noticed that when the magazine is fully loaded, I can generally depress the nose end of the bullet just because of the bullet taper. It makes me question if the follower has anything to do with the phenomenon. I will go so far as say I see top bullet nose dive in every 9mm 1911 magazine I have looked at (admittedly the number is not that large, but I’ve seen a lot of U-Tubes with this same issue). I believe the pistols are designed with this issue recognized. My suspicion is the magazine feed lips may not be releasing the rear of the cartridge soon enough. I have also noticed that the bullet sometimes seems to get seated deeper into the brass case than normal. One might guess this would help, but I’ve noticed the exact opposite. The shorter cartridge allows more tilt. Were the dummy cartridges you used in the demonstration the same length? If you are in the habit of unloading your gun and returning the bullet to the top of your magazine each day, you might have seen the bullet get shorter and begin having difficulty racking back into the chamber.
Thank you for your comments. I carry empty chamber, yes I know most don’t, so recycled top rounds getting shorter is not the problem. However, short loaded ammo could well be a contributing factor. I believe that the basic .45 caliber 1911 design does not translate well to the shorter, thinner, 9mm round. It works ok most of the time but when stressed by max loads in the mag, it occasionally fails, spectacularly. Downloading by 1 or 2 seems to relieve the over pressure, increasing reliability.
I have had an additional thought about my earlier short bullet observation. Every 1911 9mm top bullet of every mag nosedives, maybe to different extents. I’m being to suspect the nosedive is seating the bullet further into the brass and results in a feed jam. I’d really like to know if anyone else can make similar observations . I bet some bullet brands are less susceptible to the bullet seating deeper into the case. I think it will resolve a lot of my issues.
My experience has been that the actual stop action nose dive jam is frequently the second or third cartridge in the mag. My guess, and it is a guess, is that the short cartridge pushed up by an overly compressed spring as the gun cycles gets out of alignment and jams as it is shoved forward. I don’t think playing with cartridge overall length will solve the basic dynamic problem. It might and perhaps someone else here will know and comment. However, I have found that downloading the mag by a round or two reduces the spring tension and increases reliability. It’s what works for me.
I can relate. I had an Armscor 1911 A1 FS in .45. It shot flawlessly for 14 years; with Hornady Critical Defense cartridges working other than standard ball. Over the last year, the problems began and got progressively worse, to the point that even ball ammo would nosedive so far down it hit below the ramp. This would also cause the bullet to be shoved farther into the case. I sent the gun back to Armscor and 3 weeks later they sent me a brand new A1 FS at no charge. They claimed the frame was "out of spec". The new gun works flawlessly. And a big thumbs up for Armscor customer service.
@@BarbosaUral thanks for the comment. Excellent customer service, worthy of being mentioned.
I always smooth out the feed lips... i try to only use the oem mags but i have promags for a few of mine and the all work flawless after spending time sanding and polishing the feed lips. I still don't trust them as 1st choice... but definitely not a bad last resort!
That’s interesting Edrick. I would think that sanding and polishing the feed lips would smooth them and make the cartridges slip out more easily. My impression has always been that the nose dive jam is caused by the spring and follower not holding the cartridge level because the feed lips on a 9mm 1911 are so short and they allow the cartridge to pop up at the back early in the feed cycle, creating a nose down orientation that jams as the cartridge is driven forward. Perhaps there is a “sticky” issue going on as well that your approach addresses. Interesting.
I agree with loading only 9 rounds per magazine. It seems to me that since 9mm rounds are slightly tapered, 10 round magazines have a tendency to force the top round to nose dive. 9 round 9mm 1911 magazines have always performed better in my experience that 10 rounders.
I get what you are saying but believe the best solution is 9 rounds in a 10 round mag, not 9 round mags vs 10 round mags. When 9mm 1911 mags are loaded to capacity, whatever that is, I see failures starting to happen.
I do not disagree, and should have been more clear with my comments. The 10 round magazines I have used work quite well when not loaded to full capacity. It's when the 10th round is present that I experience these intermittent issues as described.
@@evansumner6383 thanks for the clarification. We’re in synch. Trying for max capacity just seems to open the door for this particular issue.
Would polishing the feed ramp help this problem? My Kimber Micro 9, jams sometimes.
Perhaps. The problem is the cartridge being in a nose down position as it is slammed forward. If it tucks under the feed ramp, being polished won’t matter. If it hits at the bottom of the ramp, it might still jam or it might be able to slide up. It happens so fast and a minute difference of angle will effect the result. Less rounds than capacity in the mag will reduce spring pressure and help stop the cartridges from getting out of alignment. That is what has worked best for me but every gun is different. Polishing may be a solution for you.
Interesting video. IMO loading -1 capacity = false advertising by mag sellers. The capacity marked should be capacity that WORKS, not just fits.
I have had issues where I find I need different mag designs for different guns. The WIlson 10rd 9mm mags that work great in my Colt cause nose dives in my Springfield. I believe the mag lips are too long on the Wilson to work with the integrated ramp barrel in the Springfield. Frustrating.
You make a key point … different mag designs for different guns. OEM mags should always work at stated capacity in the gun they came with, but unfortunately the mags are likely standard mags sourced elsewhere. Mix and match yields differing results. As you say, frustrating. Downloading by 1 or 2 isn’t what we should have to do but it does seem to increase reliability.
Who buys a 1911 in 9MM? Is it really a 1911 if it is not .45 ACP?
Actually a pretty good question. 1911 was designed around the 45 acp cartridge and any other caliber is a compromise. However, 9mm is sooo much cheaper. If you shoot thousands and thousands in competition each year you can save enough to buy another gun. For CCW, smaller cartridges yield less weight and are more acceptable for some. Plus, smaller cartridges mean more ammo in the same footprint which can be meaningful in both endeavors. However, both require dependability which does suffer as noted.
To be fair, the 1911 was chambered in 9mm before anything else outside of Germany if I recall correctly. Late 1940's or early 1950's.
@@IzanReality Did not know that. Love a 1911 in 9mm, probably my favorite of all time. Still, any chambering other than .45 acp means a compromise in the design that can, and does, lead to reliability issues. That needs to be factored into the decision as to how it is used, in my opinion.
@@IzanRealityhuh? The 1911 was chamber in .45ACP first…it was DESIGNED AROUND the .45ACP cartridge. Are you saying that the 9mm was the first caliber for the 1911 or that that Germany had a 1911 chambered in 9mm chambered 1911, but no one outside of Germany, saw saw the 9mm 1911 until the 40’s - 50’s???
I just bought my 1st 1911 last week found out 1911s have this problem with the mags. Sucks you have to take one bullet out of your mag for it to function properly. I thought 1911s were the best most durable guns out there but have issues like this? Sort of disappointed
I understand completely. However, it was designed for a specific cartridge. You didn’t say but I am guessing yours is not a .45. Anything else is a compromise and reliability is effected. By going one or two rounds below max capacity in the mag there is less pressure on the mechanics involved and reliability is dramatically improved. Still can hold as many rounds as the originals, just not what the mfg offer as max.
@@jay1944 it’s a .45 I just don’t like you have to limit one or two rounds in a 10 round mag just so it can work . I might as well just run the stock 8 round mag but I like the feeling of 2 extra rounds especially in a defense situation . Just sort of disappointed. Good video tho
seems that my 9 rd mag, i should load only 8 to be sure
@@Larry-ds6ib yes. Whatever the stated mag capacity, go down by one. For a new mag with a heavy spring, down by 2 is not out of order. The problem appears to be excessive pressure of too many rounds against a tight spring in a constrained environment. Less rounds reduces the pressure below the critical point.
@@jay1944 Thanks a lot Jay! I am new to 9mm 1911, even 45acp I tried was my friend's. So now I finally own a 1911 and hope that thing not gonna disappoint me. It's a CA version SA EMP 3"
@@Larry-ds6ib fine gun. I won a state even in my class with one. Sold it and bought a SA Range Office Champion which is very similar but with a 4” barrel. Now have 11,600 rounds through it. Couple of “watch for”s. About 4800 rounds the recoil spring can start getting weak and you can get failure to feed jams. Not the dreaded nose dive, but bothersome. Call SA customer service and they will fix you up. About $50 bucks including shipping. (just ordered my second). I also replaced the extractor with a Wilson Combat “bullet proof” extractor. More robust for surer feeding and extracting. Enjoy the gun.
Found it
I had the same problem with my SPRINGFIELD EMP .40, widened the lip feed on clip, problem solved. Try Wilson combat clips.
Thank you for the comment. I have no .40 experiences so perhaps this will help others.
Having trouble with my chip mags
And this just confirmed that it is the mags fault
Also the mag doesn’t sit all the way up causing a bigger failure
Makes sense. If the mag is lower than it should be, the cartridge will be lower as well and that would contribute to the nose dive problem. Perhaps borrow some mags from another shooter and verify it is the mag and not the gun’s internals at fault.
@@Chrizy96 sometimes a mag will have a base plate or pad that doesn’t line up properly and will hit the bottom of the opening in the grip and prevent complete seating.
@@jay1944I just noticed that too, every time I get a minor nose dive and tap the bottom of the mag the slide goes forward into batttery, going to have to sand it down
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 9mm 1911, JUST ASK JOHN BROWNING - LOL!!!
PS - BUT THIS WAS A GOOD VIDEO, LOAD MAGS ONE LESS THAN MAX, GOOD IDEA!!!!!!!
Bloke when I chill u chill
Looks to me like some anti tilt followers would fix your problem.
@@jay1944 snide remarks from the content creator does not promote a productive learning environment. Anti-tilt followers are marketed by reputable manufactures like Wilson Combat. Get educated or explain your reasoning for your negative experiences with them. Snide remarks are viewer repellent.
Richard. My apologies. As I mention in most of my videos, I am an experienced user but not a trained gunsmith. I assumed that the original post was a joke and went along with it. I have checked it out with mixed results. Nothing at Brownells or Wilson Combat that I can find. Midway does sell such a device but it is for AR-15s only. A Google search shows them for AR-15s but nothing for 1911s. Everything I find indicates that the concept is valid for ARs, but not 1911s. So, while not a solution for my problem, it was potentially a valid thought being expressed. I’ll try to do better in the future.
@@jay1944
If you will do a simple Google search for "1911 anti-tilt followers " you will find several companys that sell them. I know this for a fact because i just did it myself.
100,000 rounds every minute equals to how many years? Know just figuring out why you didn’t fix the problem after the first hangup? Pro shooter with sponsors? Yes indeed
Very useful info sir, thank you
You are more than welcome. It turns out that there is actually a magazine that was designed to fight this problem. Not a replacement follower that I can find but a different style magazine. The review that I saw was less than complementary but others have at least recognized the problem. Still, it seems that loading one less than full capacity is a simple and fairly reliable solution.
Holy cow! Thank you so much for this. I have a new PDP 5in. Where 115 grain will do a nosedive every single time, but 124 grain will shoot fine. Walther said its not the mag, but Im going to test this out by checking the angle of the rrounds