I see the two products as serving two parts of the same market. The 2600+ is to serve pure nostalgia while the 7800+ is to serve those who like atari games but aren't very fond of the original controllers and the overall design, the 7800 controller gives a much more familiar feel to people who are used to modern controllers and the console having controller ports and switches on the front is much better from an usability standpoint.
Indeed. I got into pre-'85 home gaming just this year, and honestly, I'm torn between buying a VCS or a 7800+. I'm not really interested on importing a 2600+.
It's for ALL retro gamers. Apart from die-hard ATARI 2600 fans, the wider retro gaming public doesn't care or is even interested in the 2600 as they see it as way too primitive to be enjoyable. They do however like the 7800 because it's the closest thing ATARI has to the big 8-bit systems of the day. As for ATARI's P.R., just read the product descriptions as I have yet to see any YT people tell people that the new games have all been enhanced and are not just vanilla re-issues of the O.G. homebrews they're based on.
The only argument against that is that the 7800+ gamepad controller is also compatible with the 2600+. Even the wireless ones will work on the 2600+ via an adaptor. So the only genuine differences are - aesthetics, the pause button, and the fact that the 7800+ has the controller ports on the front of the system as opposed to the back.
I strongly support the current Atari company and am happy with the direction they are going, both with breathing a little life into the old stuff by giving us an easy way to play the original cartiges, but also with revamping old games in ways to generate new interest. But, this release of the 7800 plus is way, way too soon. Its kind of a knife to the people who bought the 2600. Had they waited a couple of years, and instead focused on the gaming side (like designing new 7800 and 2600 games), it would have been better. It was just too soon, its a bad look.
I’m a huge Atari fan and I love that they’re releasing these consoles. I have a 2600+ so the 7800+ is not something I’d be interested in buying, but I hope it does well so that Atari does future releases that I might want.
When they announced the 2600+ last year, I did not like that it included 7800 functionality. Really I wanted Atari to focus on the 2600, and then later do something with the 7800. Now, I am glad they included the 7800 functionality into the 2600+ because there were some problems with the 7800 emulation, which will now not be present in the 7800+.
I'm looking at the 7800+ because I don't have an original Atari game system and I only have a retron 77 and while it's good.. I want to get 7800 games and home brew games.
I can’t really argue. I have 27 versions of Starscream-some with multiple copies and/or US/Japan versions)-from Gen 1 through Earthspark (vice _all_ Bayformers, including the Doritoscream with asteroid alt (🤦♂️)), a few of which cost more than both consoles combined,* and there aren’t even 27 different Transformers series/movies (yet)... * Transformers need Optimus and Megatron with Atari 2600 and Intellivision alt forms, respectively - like their versions with SNES/Genesis alt’s. It’s one-stop licensing, Hasbro - and I bet for almost nothing, especially if you put a two-issue Atari Force x Transformers comic set in every package, along with an Atari/Intellivision catalog of all the VCS onward stuff, once Atari releases the Intellivision-/+ (minus every possible aspect of the controllers, which would be a huge plus, lol). The branding, alone, would be more than worth it, for Atari.
I was debating getting a 2600+ when the 7800+ got announced. I had the 7800 back in the day and love the system. I ordered my 7800+ immediately. I am very excited to receive it. All that said, these are very valid criticisms. I talked to a friend who bought the 2600+ last year. He ordered the 7800+ not knowing or remembering the 2600+ could play 7800 carts. I wonder how many casual users will double dip for that reason.
You bring up an excellent point about how the 7800+ would fare regarding the 2600+ issue. You said that negative criticism would be reduced 40 percent toward the 7800+. I would say that criticism would be reduced 90-95 percent.
For me, the 7800 support in the 2600+ was just a cool extra. I didn't have any 7800 games and it made me go buy some. I would have 100% still bought the 2600+ if it never had 7800 support. I'm still getting a 7800+ anyway and will play my 7800 games on there from that point forward, but yeah it seems a bit pointless now with how they did it. I would have for sure been more hyped for the 7800+ if they never had support for it in the 2600+.
I personally think Atari added 7800 support on the 2600+ because they really wanted to do right by the 2600 being their best selling console (30 million units sold I think) and it was the console that was really going to appeal to most people as it is extremely memorable and popular. I am guessing it was a success and they figured let's use the same recipe on 7800+. I think a Jaguar+ would really show they mean business and that's what I hope for. Either way, I own the 2600+ and pre-ordered the 7800+ as a collector 😅
In my opinion, the root cause of its criticism is that the 2600+ is going to be a year old, and yet Atari did not release an update patch to address all of the main issues with this system including a lot of necessary 7800 support fixes. Not every 2600+ owner is willing to create an AtariAge account, to get access to BETA fixes with convoluted instructions that are only available for Windows users. Atari and Plaion should have taken a page from Retro Games, ATGames and My Arcade on their software update strategies. Having a 7800+ with all those fixes that should also be available on the 2600+ is distasteful.
@CFF1974 Yep, this is my main issue as well. Give us an *OFFICIAL* and easy to install firmware update on the 2600+ before releasing another Plus system. Here in Europe *MULTIPLE* 7800 carts (including the new 2024 re-issue of “Food Fight”) will not run on the 2600+ since their PAL support has lots of issues and Atari is not addressing these.
People will find something to complain about no matter what. If they didn’t include 7800 compatibility with the 2600+, you’d have people complaining that they wouldn’t have bought it and they’d have waited for the 7800+ 🙄
Great speculation and observations. For me personally I am frustrated that the 2600+ has not gotten an official firmware update in a year, but they are releasing this 7800+ WITH the update that allows one to play the home brews and numerous 7800 games. I mean, maybe they might give us the official firmware soonish, but until then the lack of attention to a successful release leaves a bad taste in my mouth for the future of Plus products. Officially fix the original so I can purchase these home brews ATARI!
I think your estimate numbers of the 7800 “boost” for the 2600+ last year is spot on. And some people have a connection to one or the other and a few have to both. So I completely understand why they made both and in the order they did. Hope the 2600+ gets the 7800+ firmware improvements soon. I also think the Intellivision+ needs to be next console for all reasons you gave us last week. Great thought process Jon and loving the content 👊🏻🕹️😎
I think they messed it up by adding 7800 support to the 2600+, then immediately going on to make 7800+. People are nostalgic for the 2600, the 7800 was just way too late for way too little - so it's natural that it wouldn't sell in the same numbers. They should just have labelled the 7800+ as a limited edition, then go back to making more of an updated 2600+ with a new exclusive game in order to get back on track. At the moment it's something that'll forever live in a box, or something that'll annoy people when they realise it did almost nothing new.
In my opinion, it would have been so much better to do a 5200+. Being able to play 5200 with an actual analog and working joystick. I would buy one in a heartbeat. Im currently using my 400 mini for 5200, which leaves much to be desired
How about this crazy idea. Come up with the Atari VCS 2.0 with support for all modern Atari games as currently but add a cartridge slot that is compatible with the 2600, 7800, etc….one device all compatible.
You've got to wonder if that's where we're going. From a consumer standpoint, "Give me that right now!" From a marketing standpoint, "Let's work our way there and continue to earn revenue along the way."
That's an idea I was hoping for ever since the VCS was first announced. Shame they never did it. But if they did a VCS 2 that supported carts, I would 100% buy one. My VCS right now is mainly on my entertainment center to look cool. lol
@@GenXGrownUp yes like the Walkman features , then the following year with Dolby, then the following year with auto reverse etc…. I guess a new feature every year. Ah well. I am happy to own the 2600+. But will wait for a VCS 2.0 with my dream features included.
I think that would be an awesome idea. I have the 2600+, VCS, game station pro along with my older systems and I would still get a newer VCS if they had a cartridge slot on it to simplify the clutter, but I would definitely still keep my older systems just for nostalgia and a collection.
I think it was smart of them to release the Atari 2600 + last year with 7800 backwards capability. I believe it brought a bunch of interest and jumped started Atari back into retro news, collecting & gaming. The 7800+ is not probably gonna do as well just for the fact that almost everyone who grew up had or knew someone who had a VCS but will probably still do good because collectors will still buy one. Hopefully they figured out how to play those games with chips and home brews that wouldn't play before
I have a 2600+ and never planned playing any 7800 games on it, mostly because I don't have any. But when the 7800+ was announced I ordered one and some games.
This reminds me of when the C64 Maxi came out. It can also emulate a VIC-20. They also came out with it in VIC-20 form that can emulate a C64. (Really the same internals, if not mistaken)
First of all, don't forget we buy these objects for passion, for the memories and for the love of that magical period that was our childhood, not for real need, and maybe we will not use them often, we just love to have. Personally I think the release of the new 7800 plus is a very good news and I will buy it as soon as it is available in Europe, even if I already have the 2600+ and a ton of cartridges for the 2600 but none for the 7800. So for me the (and I think many others) 7800 compatibility had no inpact when I bought the 2600+, we can estimate about 15% 20% wanted it. Now, they introduce the 7800 plus and the retro-compatibility with VCS 2600 cart is a must have (for almost 80% possible customers that have tons of 2600 cart and few 7800 cart), so technically the project is correct. More I also think it is right to support Atari with a small expense, to thank for the effort made. Of course it would have been much more useful and profitable for Atari to produce the Intellivision Plus, to capture all the fans of this console (there are many), who have always had problems with emulation because of the Intellivision controllers, very difficult to emulate. Surely producing a new platform takes time, but I think it will be Atari's next move.
What you say here is an extended version of comments I’ve made on your last few videos on the console. A few potential lost sales on an appropriate 2600+ may well have been made up for, and then some, on a follow-up 7800+. As it is, their chosen strategy lost them my purchase for the 7800+. I can’t also help but wonder if taking a longer break in between the two, with possibly a 5200+ in between, would have helped strengthen the overall appetite for the three.
Good points, Jon, but I don’t think that the 7800+ hit the nerdy zeitgeist like the 2600+ did. I’m one of the many (like you) who weren’t into the original 7800 back in the day and I think if this came out alone it would flop big time. Nostalgia for the 2600 is high. As it is right now I’m on the fence as to whether to grab this or the 2600+. Maybe this for the newer chips but I do like the 2600 form factor so much more…..
I'm with you on this. Not only did the 2600 have some serious gaming history, the fact that the 2600+ included 7800 support helped wrangle in some 7800 fans. All in all it helped ensure the 2600+ would be a hit. The 7800 itself, however, came out during the NES era, so their simply isn't that big of an audience for it. Therefore, the ability to play 7800 games is more of a bullet point feature than a product in its own right. That said, I do feel that the 15-20% additional interest in the 2600+ because of the 7800 support is not only accurate, but it might have been what got it to cross the finish line during the investment period. Like, without it, it might just not have had enough interest to make it a "2600 PLUS" versus merely a "2600 with HDMI".
This is the correct take! 😃The Millions of 2600 fans moved to colecovision, c64, nintendo and sega. I have been a avid gamer since 1976 and the 7800 was nothing to me. It was a cool bonus for the 2600+ that help push the sale. It picqued my interest and lead me to discover the homebrew community. Atari has now embraced that community, releasing those homebrew games. The new Atari is making great decisions IMO.
@@jasonmann3775I went from 2600 to 7800 (the 7800 being my first console) to NES. My enthusiasm for the 2600+ was not impacted by 7800 support, but the 2600+’s 7800 support did have such a negative impact in my interest in the 7800+ that I won’t be buying one.
@@SumDumGy Yes it was great it included 7800 support and not feel you need to buy a console every year. I will be getting a wireless controller and a new cart or two.
I did not get a 2600+ last year and recently picked up the Atari GSP (After finding your channel and watching the Atari related content.) and have been playing and adding games to it using the custom firmware and having a blast. I have pre-ordered the 7800+ with a few of the games and an extra controller. I am looking forward to the console and the price point is great. Maybe the 7800+ will have better compatibility then the 2600+.
I think you're spot on with all your points. As a side note, since we ocassionally chat on your other Jon of GenXGrownUp channel, this type of content is awesome. Interesting, engaging, and great to see!
Jon, you are spot on with your speculation. However, I'm happy as hell that my 2600+ has the ability to play 7800 games. With that being said, I'm a sucker for Atari related stuff and will most likely add the 7800+ to my collection!!! Thank you Jon for another awesome vid!!!
If the 2600+ didn't have 7800 compatibilitiy, It might not have sold as well. The Hyperkin 77 plays most 2600 games, plus it has SD card support. So the 2600+ had to offer more. Hopefully someone figures out how to make the Harmony cart fully functional on the plus units. Right now you can only load 1 game on an SD card and play on the 2600 plus.
I thoroughly LOVE the idea of the 7800+, honestly. I didn't get the 2600+, but went for the Gamestation Pro, which I've been generally happy with, however I'm considering the new console.
@@GenXGrownUp would definitely be more expensive, but not by too much. The AVS NES uses FPGA and those sold for about $200. For me it would be worth it if it functioned essentially like original hardware, like being able to play homebrews and flashcarts withouthaving to update the firmware for each title, while having the benefit of HD.
Great video. I don’t even think its honestly controversial. I don’t believe that the 7800+ will sell as many as the 2600+. Many more Atari 2600 were sold and the games are dirt cheap out there. The 7800 didn’t sell well. I can remember seeing the 7800 maybe a three times at my Kiddie City Toy store and only Desert Falcon game. I do own a 7800 and I did preorder the new 7800+ for the simple reason of the wireless controllers. I will say that I debated it for about four days before I ordered it because there wasn’t a big difference. In the end Atari market is the retro community and they will buy it. I also think you’re 110 percent right that we need a Intellivision+, I just hope they add a SD cart into it. There are plenty of homebrew games out there.
I wouldn't have picked up the 2600+ without the 7800 support. Retron 77 did 2600 carts already. 7800 support PLUS offical Atari and 2600 design sold me on the device. I would have been irritated if I'd bought a 2600+ then a 7800+ comes out a year later that does both?! No, I think this is fine as is. Maybe they get some of the non capable 2600 controllers working on the new hardware. Atari Age forums show how much the folks involved with this project care about the community.
@@GenXGrownUp Yeah, I'm sure I'm in the minority on the reasons I bought it. It's a neet little device, but I love how dedicated they've been at getting the games all functional. Pitfall 2 was my biggest hope and they got it working! I wounder how many people have more nestalgia for 7800 than 2600 shell.
I do not understand this criticism. If the 7800+ isn't something that interests you, then simply don't buy it or else wait until you get it used for cheap. This is how I felt about the GameStation Pro. I refused to pay full retail price for it, as I felt the retail price was absurd. I did eventually buy one for $30 - a price I felt was reasonable for the GameStation Pro. The 7800+ has some key advantages over the 2600+. The controller ports and difficulty switches are front-facing as opposed to rear facing, making changing the switches mid-game easier and not wasting controller cord length. It also comes with a wireless Europad and Bob Decrescenzo's attempt to give the 7800 a decent platformer, Bently Bear's Crystal Quest. These are key reasons to consider the purchase. That said I fully understand the 7800+ isn't necessarily for everyone who bought a 2600+. You ultimately don't need both. If that's you, then hey, just ignore it. Myself, I'll be selling my 2600+ once I have the 7800+. I don't need both.
IDK. Now a days, it is just a retro collecting thing I think. I think just to have the 7800 model, (for looks and collectors) I think that the percentage of people buying it still will be high. I think the 2600+'s compatability won't play too much into it. At this point we all have WAY too many ways to play our atari games. And we are still dumb enough to keep buying every single system. We love it! I think just for the looks and joysticks and wireless, people will still go after it.
I think that mainly collectors will buy the 7800+ or people who did grow up using this console. If Atari's expectations are not too high, this will be a cool release. Perhaps a collectors edition of the 2600+ named the "7800+" would have been a better idea ??
I thought about getting the 2600+ but just never got around to it. As soon as i saw the wireless controllers on the 7800+ I was in. That made a huge difference for me. I hope that they've improved the compatibility list since the 2600+.
I doubted about the Atari 2600+ also because I have everything emulated on my arcade cabinet. Now that the 7800+ comes with wireless controllers I want to buy it now. So.. uuh yeah❤
I don't have the same nostalgia for the 7800 as I do for the 2600. I never had one as a kid and had moved to 8-bit computer games (the 800XL) by the time I was a teenager. The 400 Mini scratched that nostalgia itch, especially with its ability to use a USB. The 7800+ just doesn't have enough new features for me to be interested, and since I don't have boxes of old 7800 games (like I do with 2600) it's just going to be a pass. If people want it, cool, but it's not for me.
I wonder if the ability to play 7800 also gave more people the desire to get the 2600+. I mean at the time it came out, I was looking for something that played both because I had a little of both in my closet. If they're both functionally the same, just a different form factor/shell might as well have released both at once and called it something else so it was clear you're choosing based on preferences/aesthetics/nostalgia alone. Yeah I know the new one has this wireless pad but eh that's not enough to buy a whole new thing, in my opinion.
Maybe I'm in the minority but the 7800 compatibility is what pushed me over the edge to get a 2600+ in the first place. In a scenario that the 2600+ did not play 7800 games, I would have not bought it and would now be over the moon for one that does both. But because the 2600+ _did_ play 7800 games as well, I bought it, and I'll buy the 7800+ as well. So Atari will get two sales out of me where in the scenario Joh brought up, I'd have only bought the 7800+ and skipped the 2600+.
Imo the 7800+ is worth picking up for the wireless controller and the pack in game, also as a collector it will look great beside my 2600+, my gaming room has the space for it and it certainly isn’t that expensive to add to my collection.
I think you've hit the nail on the head Jon. What may have been a better move would have been to retrospectively upgrade the 2600+ at a later date to include 7800 compatability, after the 7800+ release to level the playing field and announce the Atari+ Platform moving forward. Great insight Jon and thanks for sharing :-)
I agree, but all I can think is the plus name was because the 2600+ also played 7800 games. So, would there be a plus line of games and consoles at that point? Might have been called something else. Mini is popular (so glad they didn't). LMAO Be interesting to be able to go back and see how things may have changed. Again, spot on, brother.
Loved your comment. I see your points. But what will Atari think if (big if) 7800 sells way better than 2600? What precedent will it open for the next consoles from Atari? Btw, I will buy one 7800😊
At least the 7800+ looks far better than the 2600+. I just ordered a Gamestation Pro and can’t wait to play it. I also ordered the bigger paddle knobs that were reviewed on his channel. Excellent video as always!
Apple release a new phone every year that is basically the same as last years model. People will still rush out to buy it. If people want to complain that's fine don't buy it. Personally its a neat looking machine with some upgrades. And who knows Atari might have some yet to be dosclosed surprises under the 7800+ hood 😊
While I did like the fact that the 2600+ could play 7800 games, the aesthetic of having a 7800 console was missing. So, I think it is best to have the 7800+ coming soon, so that particular aesthetic, can be re-experienced. And recently seeing the Atari 400 mini brought back memories of Karateka, Blue Max, and Star Raiders. Now, let's not say there should have been a 5200+, cause if you were going to do that, you also had to remake the add-on to play 2600 cartridges, remake the trackball add-on, and the system was also at it's time, priced for the elitists, so a 5200+ would have cost more than the 2600+ & 7800+ and we would probably be re-enacting the Video Game crash of 1983, not to mention the control ports & cartridge design were proprietary. And as we all remember, the 5200 was a flop, as the controls didn't work half of the time, there was a limited library of games, and it was basically an Atari 8-Bit Computer (Like the Atari 400 or Atari 800 or Atari XEGS) in a console shell. And you could get more with the 8-Bit computers alone, and the 5200 games were basically ports of the 8-Bit Computer library. Back in the day, I called the Atari 7800 an Atari 5200 with a Major Design Overhaul and Major Bugfix Patch. Also, when you do think about it... 2600 + 5200 = 7800 (Do The Math).
They don't have a P.R. problem, because if people read the peoduct descriptions posted ON ATARI's website, you will have seen that all of the games, bat the multi carts*, have been enhanced over the indie originals. Real Sports Basketball also gets its first EVER official cartridge release. All I'm hearing is overthinking, and moaning.
Me too. I wonder if Atari will both going after that property, though, since nearly all of Coleco's game library were licensed out from arcade companies.
So I'm happy that the 7800+ is coming out, as I don't have the 2600 yet. It also looks much better in terms of design and that's why it caught my interest. Together with the Spectrum it creates a nice picture.
I absolutely Love the new Atari. I bought a 2600+ and enjoy it. The firmware update needs a simple method (like via a website ala Stadia controllers and many others), the current method is ridiculously stupid & windows only. The 7800 is my favorite Atari console aesthetically. So I'll pony up. They're putting out a lot of great products; I feel as though it's amazing to have Atari back. However, I'd be lying if I didn't admit this whole situation had burned up some goodwill. That "The CX Stick" didn't help either. The cherry on top of the crap sundae is the shipping firmware in the 7800+ will play nice out the box with the Number Pad, Driving Controller etc (thanks to its new chips) but the 2600+ MAY never gain that ability. "Still working on it".
I didn’t buy the 2600+ so I don’t have the investment in that unit. But because of that I’m very excited about the 7800+ . I still get the compatibility in a more attractive box. The wireless controller and the in-box game also has me looking forward to this unit. Another plus is the Miner 2049er sequel that will be available for it. 😊
I have historically spent money on Atari since I have been an adult (The Vader 2600 was a Christmas gift when I was a kid). I am an original owner of the Jaguar and Jag CD and the Lynx. I bought the VCS 2 years ago and the Atari 2600 Plus last year. I just bought another VCS during the labor day sale when I realized the controllers alone got me to within $30 of the whole system price if I were to buy them separately. I have also bought a couple of fixer upper Atari Computers (400 and 800XL). I am willing to spend money for things I think I "need". I have not reached the "I think need" level with the 7800 Plus, especially since the wireless controller will be backwards compatible. If I had Nostalgia for the 7800 case it might be different. I do not have anything to gain by buying it. Thanks for the video and opening up the discussion, you made me think about why I had low interest for the system. I do like the peripherals and the games that are being released around this system.
I think the sales of the 2600+ would have been hurt if it didn't have 7800 compatibility. I didn't realize at first that it was compatible with 7800 cartridges. But it ONLY plays game cartridges and that's why I wasn't interested. What is this? The '80s? I never had nor wanted the original Atari VCS (later renamed 2600) so I never had anything to do with the game cartridges. I only had game cartridges for my 8-bit Atari Home Computers that STILL only fit in the old computers. It wasn't until earlier this year, when I got an actual Atari 7800 Pro System along with about two dozen game cartridges, that I even realized that the 7800 could play 2600 cartridges. I was just taking a second look at the 2600+ because the joysticks on my 7800 don't work right. That's when they announced the 7800+ and I actually got excited. I personally think it looks nicer than the 2600+ but all I really need is a replacement for the old joysticks so I have the CX78+ on preorder (I'm pissed that I missed the wired version of this.) The 7800+ may be the same thing the 2600+ is in a new box, but it also has all the firmware updates which I understand haven't even been officially released for the 2600+ yet and if you can get them you need a Windows PC to apply them so that counts me out. I 'm really looking forward to a side-by-side comparison of the 2600+ and the 7800+ (and maybe a 7800 Pro System as well).
I agree Jon, if they had maybe included 5200 game support within the 2600+, that progression would have covered that timeline as a completed set making the 7800+ the remaining of the original hardware and enabled the added introduction of the wireless functionality as the enhance driver to make it a worthy purchase in 2024. So yes, they might have dropped the ball here on the 7800+
Agreed. I think Wade Rosen (bless his heart!) has his hands full trying to make Atari glorious and fruitful, but being overloaded with the attendant responsibilities, slipped up a little with this.
I’m a 2600 kid, so I purchased 2600+. I do greatly enjoy that it plays 7800 games! Since day one, “Impossible Mission” has been parked in the cartridge slot! Anyway, I fully agree with your take. It appears that Atari failed to think this through - then again, I will probably buy a 7800+ even though I don’t need it. At 130 bucks, it’s a steal!
Personally Im very excited for the 7800+. If I had bought the 2600+ then I might not be. I can see that point of view. Still, I do think it is a little weird to be critical of the new console just because you got extra functionality on the first one. But ok.
Neither of these emulation machines in disguise really sits right with me. Using fancy 2020s tech to build something that’s objectively worse than what we had in the 1970s in some ways - it’s a VCS, now with added loading times and reduced compatibility! Though it gets us HDMI output, which is a lot more useful these days than RF… I guess I’d prefer a combined 2600/5200/7800/130XE with a new VCS-*inspired* design.
I think you're exactly right. And I think they would sell more 7800 +(es) but on the flip side then people would be complaining that we should've waited to buy the 7800+ They're darned if they do and darned if they don't.
I kinda feel like they should have just dropped both at the same time. They do the same thing, save the wireless capabilities of the 7800+, but like the PC Engine/CoreGrafx/TurboGrafx minis, it's mostly aesthetic preferences. I think a lot of people would have preferred a 5200+ with new controllers which, of course was the weak point of the console. I certainly like the idea of these, but timing of these releases is odd.
I get you. If the 7800+ exists because of the success of the 2600+, then dropping at the same time wasn't an option because the latter wasn't yet planned. And if they were both planned for release (together or a year apart), having feature parity seems odd - unless, I suppose, it's just a design preference thing.
I think its about choice? So may like the look of the 7800+ better, personally I do like the look of it better than the 2600, so if it was me would go for the 7800
If they'd either released them simultaneously or at least made it public last year that a 7800+ version was in the works, it would have allowed customers to decide which one they'd rather purchase ahead of time (for those who wanted only one).
Either one looks like terrible business strategies. First choice they'd end up having to set up two entire production lines without much assurance if either one would sell well, increasing the risk of taking a loss, second choice they'd have a bunch of customers deciding not to buy the 2600+ waiting for the 7800+, giving a poor outlook of the product's market appeal
@@jackmcslay It's still a valid reason as to why a lot of customers might be pissed after hearing the announcement. I'm sure many who already bought the 2600+ would have preferred to go with the 7800+ package instead, had they known about it ahead of time.
@JackHammer77 I don't think a 7800+ was even on their minds until the positive response they got from the 2600+. They've been in contact with everyone on the AtariAge forums taking in feedback. I think this has some tweaks and is less confusing about it because you clearly know the newer hardware.
Oh for Pete’s sake. If a person buys a thing they bought that thing because they wanted it. A company is not allowed to come out with something else a year later? Next years car model now comes with a moon roof standard, you’re a sucker cause you bought last years model. Making me tired
I'm also a Gen X Grownup called Jon :) I have to agree, I think the 2600+ should have left 7800 compatibility in the locker room, because now there are two consoles, both of which have an identity crisis. I personally prefer the styling of the 7800+, but can also see the appeal of the 2600+, but I wouldn't want both (Well I have a real 7800 and several 2600 Jrs, so I don't need them). However I can see the collectors appeal, and I wonder if that is what it's aimed at. It also makes me wonder if the 2600+ may have a limited lifespan now that the 7800+ is out on the market. Not sure there is a good market for both and the 7800+ fits the bill better as the original had backwards compatibility too. What I do think is a great move though is the re-issue of the CX78 joypad in the + and wireless forms, and I have just pre-ordered the wireless model as I have a lot of machines it'll work with.
What gets me is the lack of information and answers to the questions the community has. With the new internals, does that provide better compatibility with controllers and games that dont work on the 2600+ or would a firmware update fix that? Because of the new interals, if it did provide better compatibility, I would buy it. Right now, I just dont know because I have not heard anything. I have looked on the website and it says near full compatibility with 3rd party games, but clicking on the "click here" does nothing. Hopefully they will clarify some things soon.
If it was internally identical.... so what? At the present price point you could have the 2600+ in one room, the 7800+ in another. You get to share downloads and carts. Win, win.
First off, if the 2600+ only played 2600 games. There would be more backlash l as people who paid $130 for the 2600 would have real reason to be upset with an inferior product. The only way this would have worked is if the 2600+ was $49.99 for it to only play 2600 games. There is nothing wrong with a reskin, etc.
From the UK marketplace standpoint, it's not looking all that rosy for the 7800+. I'm not sure how many preorder units of the 2600+ were sold in the first month but according to Amazon, over here the 2600+ and 7800+ are selling at the same rate of between 50 and 100 units a month. In contrast, The Spectrum has more than 2000 on preorder. Of course, it was the computer that a huge chunk of Brits would have owned BITD but many of us also had the 2600 as our first foray into gaming.
@@GenXGrownUp had original Atari with 6 switches, then the last 2600 so i could continue playing my favs. Never had the 7800 but my best friend did . So i think ill get the 7800+
I think you supposition is correct. It would have greatly changed my personal opinion of the 7800+… if I had already purchased the 2600+. But, with the added features, be they ever so slight, it makes the 2600+ a complete no-go for me now. I would only be looking at the 7800+. One thing that I am waiting to hear is if they fixed some of the cartridge compatibility issues that the 2600+ had. It wasn’t many. But, I have some of those.
Definitely grabbing a 7800+ and Bounty Bob game to show my support to the “new” Atari- but a Jaguar+ is the one I’m really waiting for! The Jag homebrew games just don’t stop coming it’s wild!
I was born in 1980 so I didn't have this stuff growing up. We did have a hand me down Intellivision (which I hope they do a plus of) but I have a Atari 2600 6xer made in Sunnyvale CA so I didn't get the 2600 plus but the 7800 plus I will get. It has more of an 80's look too. If Champ Games homebrew games worked on the 2600 plus I would of gotten it but I keep my og for the homebrews.
I personally think they should make them in a way where the 2600+ should only play 2600 and 2600+ games then the 7800+ only play 7800 and 7800+ games and at the same time the 7800+ having its backward compatibilities with 2600 and 2600+.
I missed the 2600+ launch and all the sweet collectible "XP" cartridge launches around it. I am here for the 7800+ a system I never owned and building a collection of 7800 titles so I'm happy for the form factor, gameplay, and even minor updates. Hopefully we'll see some "XP" limited run games along with it.
this video is also my exact same response, i also thought why, what for? i got the 2600+ great, then this just dropped as preorder on amazon, im in uk and uk release date is 29th nov, and i noticed the spectrum is the next retro games machine preorder for 22 nov over here in uk. i had to think about the 7800plus, i have indeed preordered because im nuts but yeah, erm i dont get it. i do love the wireless pad idea tho, nice.. these machines i think are aimed at us crazy folk anyway so they know we will buy them. amazon again ive just grabbed c64 maxi and the vic-20 machines, again the same thing as far as i know. waiting on delivery tho. we need a mattel intelevision cart machine next
Thanks for watching. I theorize as to who the 7800+ is best suited and more in this video from a week or two ago: ua-cam.com/video/0cB7f3Ozwvs/v-deo.html
If it didn't have the PAL styling, it would be a must have for me. As it is, I do want one, but I still have a working 7800, so it's hard not to see the 7800+ as a less compatible, worse looking small version of what I already have. It's like a Sega Genesis 3.
I think you're right that in hindsight (knowing that the 2600+ did so well ) Atari shouldn't have added support for 7800 carts in the 2600+ if they knew the 7800+ was coming. But on the other side... then they couldn't have named it 2600+, because then the plus wouldn't make any sense, knowing that the original 2600 does more (except for outputting HDMI). Maybe they could have called it the 2600-HD then
I think this product serves two different groups of people. People like you grew up with the old Atari. I think there is a group of people who may have been a bit too young for the old Atari but grew up with the 7800. I think for those people maybe the amount of things the console could do isn't necessarily the point. Now those people who remember the 7800 as their first console can have their nostalgic console for them.
I agree with you Jon. Atari should have not made the 2600+ retroactively play 7800 at this time. I also felt, my personal insights and opinion anyway, is that because of the success of the 2600+'s release they rushed into this possibly to market to those that preferred the 7800 esthetics over the 2600. However I think/believe had they withheld until next year the possibility of it landing better with the Atari community would have been accepted better that I've read on Atari groups on FB so far.
I saw the site and notice the info is the same as the 2600 plus, that is so weird. I have the org one back in the 90's and I love it and will not stop playing games on it. Since I got the GameDrive for the system. I can play the games without ware and tear on the cartridge slot. Plus it plays really good with the up convert on the video port. Plus new controllers that looks like the org 7800 game pad. LOVE IT!
So I look at this very much like TheC64 and TheVIC20. They both do the same exact thing, the only difference being the shell color, key caps, and there's some small differences in the included games. Otherwise, they're identical in terms of functionality. It gave VIC20 fans something to look forward to which didn't have the costs of creating an entirely new platform (though TheVIC20 was branded as a limited run TheC64 rather than a "new" unit). It's a low risk move that expands the fan base they can tap into. What we have here is the same situation, except the 7800+ gets an additional bonus since it supports wireless controllers out of the box. This is Atari catering to 7800 fans, which is something we should be happy about. I'm pretty sure much (if not all) of the software stack will be shared between both units, so again, a much lower cost to bring to market vs an entirely "new" unit and it's expanding their audience. It's not like 2600+ owners are losing anything**. If you're not a die-hard 7800 fan and already have a 2600+, there's no reason to double dip. If you're a 7800 fan, here's something that may get you to buy into the ecosystem they're trying to establish. If you're a fan of both, you get to decide if there's reason enough to buy twice. I'm just glad Atari is looking to reach as many folks as possible, it's good for them, their fans, and good for homebrew developers that want to see their games reach more people. ** = Assuming Atari does release a full 2600+ update package that's on par w/ whatever the 7800+ gets. Again, if they're common hardware and software wise, that should make it easier to support both platforms and they may even use the same firmware bundle / update process. It'd be the smart move, and it'd keep owners of both systems at the same compatibility level. It's just up to Atari to get firmware updates released in a timely fashion going forward.
Ultimately I think it would have been a better idea to create a 5200+, rather than the 7800+, since its features are already included in the 2600+, but it's still a good thing.
i preordered it, but this is about the same price as a real 7800 and has the euro style controllers. It hooks up no problem to a modern tv and the controllers are wireless. An improved model of something I wanted at a reasonable price.
That's an interesting conversation. Neither one really tugs at my nostalgia, so when I saw the release, I said to myself "Neat!" and moved on. On the one hand I can understand some of the frustration, but at the same time, it might be easier to swallow if people think of this along the lines of a console variant. Like a 2600+ with slightly upgraded control options (wireless capabilities baked in), and a 7800-themed skin. All in all it's a lot like when modern consoles will do an exclusive deco. ie the Nintendo Switch has it's normal deco, but they also make Switches that are inspired by Pokemon, Super Mario Bros, Legend of Zelda, Animal Crossing, etc. Xbox and PlayStation do the same thing with some of their games. You don't have to buy every version of these consoles, but some fans will pick up a variant of the console because they're a fan of the franchise. I think that might be the best way to view these consoles, especially if they plan to release other Atari consoles.
I agree with you that the 2600 should not have been compatible with 7800. The 7800+ would sell more but... when I find the reason to budget to buy yet another game system, I will order the 7800+. Why, I am an ATARI fan and this piece is cool. Now, what does ATARI have planned for that ATARI 5200. And since ATARI has the rights to Intellivision.....The story continues.
I see the two products as serving two parts of the same market. The 2600+ is to serve pure nostalgia while the 7800+ is to serve those who like atari games but aren't very fond of the original controllers and the overall design, the 7800 controller gives a much more familiar feel to people who are used to modern controllers and the console having controller ports and switches on the front is much better from an usability standpoint.
Indeed. I got into pre-'85 home gaming just this year, and honestly, I'm torn between buying a VCS or a 7800+. I'm not really interested on importing a 2600+.
It's for ALL retro gamers.
Apart from die-hard ATARI 2600 fans, the wider retro gaming public doesn't care or is even interested in the 2600 as they see it as way too primitive to be enjoyable.
They do however like the 7800 because it's the closest thing ATARI has to the big 8-bit systems of the day.
As for ATARI's P.R., just read the product descriptions as I have yet to see any YT people tell people that the new games have all been enhanced and are not just vanilla re-issues of the O.G. homebrews they're based on.
@@DaveMoorland-zv3tn The fact they're packing in a game that's less than 10 years old suggest their focus isn't just to play retro games.
The only argument against that is that the 7800+ gamepad controller is also compatible with the 2600+. Even the wireless ones will work on the 2600+ via an adaptor. So the only genuine differences are - aesthetics, the pause button, and the fact that the 7800+ has the controller ports on the front of the system as opposed to the back.
@@jackmcslay Totally agree on these points. 7800 is a far superior design. I want one just for the front facing ports.
I strongly support the current Atari company and am happy with the direction they are going, both with breathing a little life into the old stuff by giving us an easy way to play the original cartiges, but also with revamping old games in ways to generate new interest.
But, this release of the 7800 plus is way, way too soon. Its kind of a knife to the people who bought the 2600. Had they waited a couple of years, and instead focused on the gaming side (like designing new 7800 and 2600 games), it would have been better.
It was just too soon, its a bad look.
I’m a huge Atari fan and I love that they’re releasing these consoles. I have a 2600+ so the 7800+ is not something I’d be interested in buying, but I hope it does well so that Atari does future releases that I might want.
When they announced the 2600+ last year, I did not like that it included 7800 functionality. Really I wanted Atari to focus on the 2600, and then later do something with the 7800. Now, I am glad they included the 7800 functionality into the 2600+ because there were some problems with the 7800 emulation, which will now not be present in the 7800+.
I'm getting a 7800+ even though I already have a 2600+!
Me too
Me too
I'm looking at the 7800+ because I don't have an original Atari game system and I only have a retron 77 and while it's good.. I want to get 7800 games and home brew games.
As you should.
I can’t really argue. I have 27 versions of Starscream-some with multiple copies and/or US/Japan versions)-from Gen 1 through Earthspark (vice _all_ Bayformers, including the Doritoscream with asteroid alt (🤦♂️)), a few of which cost more than both consoles combined,* and there aren’t even 27 different Transformers series/movies (yet)...
* Transformers need Optimus and Megatron with Atari 2600 and Intellivision alt forms, respectively - like their versions with SNES/Genesis alt’s. It’s one-stop licensing, Hasbro - and I bet for almost nothing, especially if you put a two-issue Atari Force x Transformers comic set in every package, along with an Atari/Intellivision catalog of all the VCS onward stuff, once Atari releases the Intellivision-/+ (minus every possible aspect of the controllers, which would be a huge plus, lol). The branding, alone, would be more than worth it, for Atari.
I was debating getting a 2600+ when the 7800+ got announced. I had the 7800 back in the day and love the system. I ordered my 7800+ immediately. I am very excited to receive it. All that said, these are very valid criticisms. I talked to a friend who bought the 2600+ last year. He ordered the 7800+ not knowing or remembering the 2600+ could play 7800 carts. I wonder how many casual users will double dip for that reason.
You bring up an excellent point about how the 7800+ would fare regarding the 2600+ issue. You said that negative criticism would be reduced 40 percent toward the 7800+. I would say that criticism would be reduced 90-95 percent.
Oh, yeah? I was trying to be conservative! 😁
For me, the 7800 support in the 2600+ was just a cool extra. I didn't have any 7800 games and it made me go buy some. I would have 100% still bought the 2600+ if it never had 7800 support. I'm still getting a 7800+ anyway and will play my 7800 games on there from that point forward, but yeah it seems a bit pointless now with how they did it. I would have for sure been more hyped for the 7800+ if they never had support for it in the 2600+.
I personally think Atari added 7800 support on the 2600+ because they really wanted to do right by the 2600 being their best selling console (30 million units sold I think) and it was the console that was really going to appeal to most people as it is extremely memorable and popular. I am guessing it was a success and they figured let's use the same recipe on 7800+. I think a Jaguar+ would really show they mean business and that's what I hope for. Either way, I own the 2600+ and pre-ordered the 7800+ as a collector 😅
In my opinion, the root cause of its criticism is that the 2600+ is going to be a year old, and yet Atari did not release an update patch to address all of the main issues with this system including a lot of necessary 7800 support fixes. Not every 2600+ owner is willing to create an AtariAge account, to get access to BETA fixes with convoluted instructions that are only available for Windows users. Atari and Plaion should have taken a page from Retro Games, ATGames and My Arcade on their software update strategies. Having a 7800+ with all those fixes that should also be available on the 2600+ is distasteful.
The delay in a fully-baked, official firmware update is a valid ding against Atari & PLAION.
Yeah, the lack of a fully-baked, official firmware update is a valid ding against Atari & PLAION.
@@CFF1974 totally agree 1000%! Love my 2600+, just give me an official firmware, now, please, so I can buy these home brews and 7800 games.
@CFF1974 Yep, this is my main issue as well. Give us an *OFFICIAL* and easy to install firmware update on the 2600+ before releasing another Plus system.
Here in Europe *MULTIPLE* 7800 carts (including the new 2024 re-issue of “Food Fight”) will not run on the 2600+ since their PAL support has lots of issues and Atari is not addressing these.
💯
People will find something to complain about no matter what. If they didn’t include 7800 compatibility with the 2600+, you’d have people complaining that they wouldn’t have bought it and they’d have waited for the 7800+ 🙄
Great speculation and observations. For me personally I am frustrated that the 2600+ has not gotten an official firmware update in a year, but they are releasing this 7800+ WITH the update that allows one to play the home brews and numerous 7800 games. I mean, maybe they might give us the official firmware soonish, but until then the lack of attention to a successful release leaves a bad taste in my mouth for the future of Plus products. Officially fix the original so I can purchase these home brews ATARI!
Yeah, the lack of a fully-baked, official firmware update is a valid ding against Atari & PLAION.
I think your estimate numbers of the 7800 “boost” for the 2600+ last year is spot on.
And some people have a connection to one or the other and a few have to both. So I completely understand why they made both and in the order they did. Hope the 2600+ gets the 7800+ firmware improvements soon.
I also think the Intellivision+ needs to be next console for all reasons you gave us last week. Great thought process Jon and loving the content
👊🏻🕹️😎
Thank you for being here, for watching, and always contributing constructively to the discussion! 😁
I think they messed it up by adding 7800 support to the 2600+, then immediately going on to make 7800+. People are nostalgic for the 2600, the 7800 was just way too late for way too little - so it's natural that it wouldn't sell in the same numbers. They should just have labelled the 7800+ as a limited edition, then go back to making more of an updated 2600+ with a new exclusive game in order to get back on track. At the moment it's something that'll forever live in a box, or something that'll annoy people when they realise it did almost nothing new.
In my opinion, it would have been so much better to do a 5200+. Being able to play 5200 with an actual analog and working joystick. I would buy one in a heartbeat. Im currently using my 400 mini for 5200, which leaves much to be desired
I think with greater resources, the 5200 would've been tackled next. But the path to the 7800+ was much shorter after the 2600+ was done.
Jon, thanks for bringing most excellent and bodacious content to all of us Gen Xers.
My pleasure!
How about this crazy idea. Come up with the Atari VCS 2.0 with support for all modern Atari games as currently but add a cartridge slot that is compatible with the 2600, 7800, etc….one device all compatible.
You've got to wonder if that's where we're going. From a consumer standpoint, "Give me that right now!" From a marketing standpoint, "Let's work our way there and continue to earn revenue along the way."
That's an idea I was hoping for ever since the VCS was first announced. Shame they never did it. But if they did a VCS 2 that supported carts, I would 100% buy one. My VCS right now is mainly on my entertainment center to look cool. lol
@@GenXGrownUp yes like the Walkman features , then the following year with Dolby, then the following year with auto reverse etc…. I guess a new feature every year. Ah well. I am happy to own the 2600+. But will wait for a VCS 2.0 with my dream features included.
I think that would be an awesome idea. I have the 2600+, VCS, game station pro along with my older systems and I would still get a newer VCS if they had a cartridge slot on it to simplify the clutter, but I would definitely still keep my older systems just for nostalgia and a collection.
The 7800+ will be my Christmas present to myself. Been using a flashback but have 50+ games ready to go.
I think it was smart of them to release the Atari 2600 + last year with 7800 backwards capability. I believe it brought a bunch of interest and jumped started Atari back into retro news, collecting & gaming. The 7800+ is not probably gonna do as well just for the fact that almost everyone who grew up had or knew someone who had a VCS but will probably still do good because collectors will still buy one. Hopefully they figured out how to play those games with chips and home brews that wouldn't play before
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
I have a 2600+ and never planned playing any 7800 games on it, mostly because I don't have any. But when the 7800+ was announced I ordered one and some games.
5200+ !!!!
This reminds me of when the C64 Maxi came out. It can also emulate a VIC-20. They also came out with it in VIC-20 form that can emulate a C64. (Really the same internals, if not mistaken)
First of all, don't forget we buy these objects for passion, for the memories and for the love of that magical period that was our childhood, not for real need, and maybe we will not use them often, we just love to have.
Personally I think the release of the new 7800 plus is a very good news and I will buy it as soon as it is available in Europe, even if I already have the 2600+ and a ton of cartridges for the 2600 but none for the 7800. So for me the (and I think many others) 7800 compatibility had no inpact when I bought the 2600+, we can estimate about 15% 20% wanted it.
Now, they introduce the 7800 plus and the retro-compatibility with VCS 2600 cart is a must have (for almost 80% possible customers that have tons of 2600 cart and few 7800 cart),
so technically the project is correct.
More I also think it is right to support Atari with a small expense, to thank for the effort made.
Of course it would have been much more useful and profitable for Atari to produce the Intellivision Plus, to capture all the fans of this console (there are many), who have always had problems with emulation because of the Intellivision controllers, very difficult to emulate.
Surely producing a new platform takes time, but I think it will be Atari's next move.
I didn't forget! ua-cam.com/video/eQHeYK7gPcU/v-deo.html 😁
@@GenXGrownUp Right!
What you say here is an extended version of comments I’ve made on your last few videos on the console. A few potential lost sales on an appropriate 2600+ may well have been made up for, and then some, on a follow-up 7800+. As it is, their chosen strategy lost them my purchase for the 7800+.
I can’t also help but wonder if taking a longer break in between the two, with possibly a 5200+ in between, would have helped strengthen the overall appetite for the three.
It very well may have. Thanks for watching!
Good points, Jon, but I don’t think that the 7800+ hit the nerdy zeitgeist like the 2600+ did. I’m one of the many (like you) who weren’t into the original 7800 back in the day and I think if this came out alone it would flop big time. Nostalgia for the 2600 is high. As it is right now I’m on the fence as to whether to grab this or the 2600+. Maybe this for the newer chips but I do like the 2600 form factor so much more…..
I'm with you on this. Not only did the 2600 have some serious gaming history, the fact that the 2600+ included 7800 support helped wrangle in some 7800 fans. All in all it helped ensure the 2600+ would be a hit. The 7800 itself, however, came out during the NES era, so their simply isn't that big of an audience for it. Therefore, the ability to play 7800 games is more of a bullet point feature than a product in its own right.
That said, I do feel that the 15-20% additional interest in the 2600+ because of the 7800 support is not only accurate, but it might have been what got it to cross the finish line during the investment period. Like, without it, it might just not have had enough interest to make it a "2600 PLUS" versus merely a "2600 with HDMI".
This is the correct take! 😃The Millions of 2600 fans moved to colecovision, c64, nintendo and sega. I have been a avid gamer since 1976 and the 7800 was nothing to me. It was a cool bonus for the 2600+ that help push the sale. It picqued my interest and lead me to discover the homebrew community. Atari has now embraced that community, releasing those homebrew games. The new Atari is making great decisions IMO.
@@jasonmann3775I went from 2600 to 7800 (the 7800 being my first console) to NES. My enthusiasm for the 2600+ was not impacted by 7800 support, but the 2600+’s 7800 support did have such a negative impact in my interest in the 7800+ that I won’t be buying one.
@@SumDumGy Yes it was great it included 7800 support and not feel you need to buy a console every year. I will be getting a wireless controller and a new cart or two.
I did not get a 2600+ last year and recently picked up the Atari GSP (After finding your channel and watching the Atari related content.) and have been playing and adding games to it using the custom firmware and having a blast. I have pre-ordered the 7800+ with a few of the games and an extra controller. I am looking forward to the console and the price point is great. Maybe the 7800+ will have better compatibility then the 2600+.
I received my shipment notice this morning. It will be here on Saturday.
I think they're not yet being manufactured.
@@GenXGrownUpI received my package today. I ordered the $169 bundle. Atari sent all the items in the bundle except the 7800 + console.
@@terrymobley6235 That makes sense. I think that's not coming until a bit later. Did you also receive the wireless controllers?
@@GenXGrownUp No
I think you're spot on with all your points. As a side note, since we ocassionally chat on your other Jon of GenXGrownUp channel, this type of content is awesome. Interesting, engaging, and great to see!
Indeed - I see you over there regularly. I'm gonna be talking about this one in the morning! 😁
@@GenXGrownUp Oh boy, I hope I'm not spamming you! I'll slow down on the comments! 😀
@@synthsoniq No, not at all - keep 'em coming!
Jon, you are spot on with your speculation. However, I'm happy as hell that my 2600+ has the ability to play 7800 games. With that being said, I'm a sucker for Atari related stuff and will most likely add the 7800+ to my collection!!! Thank you Jon for another awesome vid!!!
If the 2600+ didn't have 7800 compatibilitiy, It might not have sold as well. The Hyperkin 77 plays most 2600 games, plus it has SD card support. So the 2600+ had to offer more. Hopefully someone figures out how to make the Harmony cart fully functional on the plus units. Right now you can only load 1 game on an SD card and play on the 2600 plus.
I thoroughly LOVE the idea of the 7800+, honestly. I didn't get the 2600+, but went for the Gamestation Pro, which I've been generally happy with, however I'm considering the new console.
I have the 2600+ and ordered the 7800+. I have a few televisions in my home so it was a no brained for me.
Wish these consoles were FPGA instead of emulation boxes. Would not have all their compatability issues with FPGA, would buy that in a heartbeat!
I wonder how that sort of tech would impact the cost of a product like this. I'm thinking more than double.
@@GenXGrownUp would definitely be more expensive, but not by too much. The AVS NES uses FPGA and those sold for about $200. For me it would be worth it if it functioned essentially like original hardware, like being able to play homebrews and flashcarts withouthaving to update the firmware for each title, while having the benefit of HD.
@@southtexasatlatl No debate here about the benefits of FPGA!
Great video. I don’t even think its honestly controversial. I don’t believe that the 7800+ will sell as many as the 2600+. Many more Atari 2600 were sold and the games are dirt cheap out there. The 7800 didn’t sell well. I can remember seeing the 7800 maybe a three times at my Kiddie City Toy store and only Desert Falcon game.
I do own a 7800 and I did preorder the new 7800+ for the simple reason of the wireless controllers. I will say that I debated it for about four days before I ordered it because there wasn’t a big difference. In the end Atari market is the retro community and they will buy it.
I also think you’re 110 percent right that we need a Intellivision+, I just hope they add a SD cart into it. There are plenty of homebrew games out there.
For those that didn't get the 2600+ I see it as an Aesthetic option. I skipped the 2600+ but am considering the 7800+
I wouldn't have picked up the 2600+ without the 7800 support. Retron 77 did 2600 carts already. 7800 support PLUS offical Atari and 2600 design sold me on the device. I would have been irritated if I'd bought a 2600+ then a 7800+ comes out a year later that does both?! No, I think this is fine as is. Maybe they get some of the non capable 2600 controllers working on the new hardware. Atari Age forums show how much the folks involved with this project care about the community.
Fair enough. You'd fall in my 15% estimatea.
@@GenXGrownUp Yeah, I'm sure I'm in the minority on the reasons I bought it. It's a neet little device, but I love how dedicated they've been at getting the games all functional. Pitfall 2 was my biggest hope and they got it working! I wounder how many people have more nestalgia for 7800 than 2600 shell.
I do not understand this criticism. If the 7800+ isn't something that interests you, then simply don't buy it or else wait until you get it used for cheap. This is how I felt about the GameStation Pro. I refused to pay full retail price for it, as I felt the retail price was absurd. I did eventually buy one for $30 - a price I felt was reasonable for the GameStation Pro.
The 7800+ has some key advantages over the 2600+. The controller ports and difficulty switches are front-facing as opposed to rear facing, making changing the switches mid-game easier and not wasting controller cord length. It also comes with a wireless Europad and Bob Decrescenzo's attempt to give the 7800 a decent platformer, Bently Bear's Crystal Quest. These are key reasons to consider the purchase.
That said I fully understand the 7800+ isn't necessarily for everyone who bought a 2600+. You ultimately don't need both. If that's you, then hey, just ignore it.
Myself, I'll be selling my 2600+ once I have the 7800+. I don't need both.
IDK. Now a days, it is just a retro collecting thing I think. I think just to have the 7800 model, (for looks and collectors) I think that the percentage of people buying it still will be high. I think the 2600+'s compatability won't play too much into it. At this point we all have WAY too many ways to play our atari games. And we are still dumb enough to keep buying every single system. We love it! I think just for the looks and joysticks and wireless, people will still go after it.
I think that mainly collectors will buy the 7800+ or people who did grow up using this console. If Atari's expectations are not too high, this will be a cool release. Perhaps a collectors edition of the 2600+ named the "7800+" would have been a better idea ??
I thought about getting the 2600+ but just never got around to it. As soon as i saw the wireless controllers on the 7800+ I was in. That made a huge difference for me. I hope that they've improved the compatibility list since the 2600+.
I doubted about the Atari 2600+ also because I have everything emulated on my arcade cabinet. Now that the 7800+ comes with wireless controllers I want to buy it now. So.. uuh yeah❤
I don't have the same nostalgia for the 7800 as I do for the 2600. I never had one as a kid and had moved to 8-bit computer games (the 800XL) by the time I was a teenager. The 400 Mini scratched that nostalgia itch, especially with its ability to use a USB. The 7800+ just doesn't have enough new features for me to be interested, and since I don't have boxes of old 7800 games (like I do with 2600) it's just going to be a pass. If people want it, cool, but it's not for me.
I wonder if the ability to play 7800 also gave more people the desire to get the 2600+. I mean at the time it came out, I was looking for something that played both because I had a little of both in my closet. If they're both functionally the same, just a different form factor/shell might as well have released both at once and called it something else so it was clear you're choosing based on preferences/aesthetics/nostalgia alone. Yeah I know the new one has this wireless pad but eh that's not enough to buy a whole new thing, in my opinion.
Maybe I'm in the minority but the 7800 compatibility is what pushed me over the edge to get a 2600+ in the first place. In a scenario that the 2600+ did not play 7800 games, I would have not bought it and would now be over the moon for one that does both.
But because the 2600+ _did_ play 7800 games as well, I bought it, and I'll buy the 7800+ as well. So Atari will get two sales out of me where in the scenario Joh brought up, I'd have only bought the 7800+ and skipped the 2600+.
Imo the 7800+ is worth picking up for the wireless controller and the pack in game, also as a collector it will look great beside my 2600+, my gaming room has the space for it and it certainly isn’t that expensive to add to my collection.
I think you've hit the nail on the head Jon. What may have been a better move would have been to retrospectively upgrade the 2600+ at a later date to include 7800 compatability, after the 7800+ release to level the playing field and announce the Atari+ Platform moving forward. Great insight Jon and thanks for sharing :-)
I agree, but all I can think is the plus name was because the 2600+ also played 7800 games. So, would there be a plus line of games and consoles at that point? Might have been called something else. Mini is popular (so glad they didn't). LMAO Be interesting to be able to go back and see how things may have changed. Again, spot on, brother.
Loved your comment. I see your points. But what will Atari think if (big if) 7800 sells way better than 2600?
What precedent will it open for the next consoles from Atari?
Btw, I will buy one 7800😊
At least the 7800+ looks far better than the 2600+. I just ordered a Gamestation Pro and can’t wait to play it. I also ordered the bigger paddle knobs that were reviewed on his channel. Excellent video as always!
Apple release a new phone every year that is basically the same as last years model. People will still rush out to buy it.
If people want to complain that's fine don't buy it. Personally its a neat looking machine with some upgrades. And who knows Atari might have some yet to be dosclosed surprises under the 7800+ hood 😊
While I did like the fact that the 2600+ could play 7800 games, the aesthetic of having a 7800 console was missing. So, I think it is best to have the 7800+ coming soon, so that particular aesthetic, can be re-experienced.
And recently seeing the Atari 400 mini brought back memories of Karateka, Blue Max, and Star Raiders.
Now, let's not say there should have been a 5200+, cause if you were going to do that, you also had to remake the add-on to play 2600 cartridges, remake the trackball add-on, and the system was also at it's time, priced for the elitists, so a 5200+ would have cost more than the 2600+ & 7800+ and we would probably be re-enacting the Video Game crash of 1983, not to mention the control ports & cartridge design were proprietary.
And as we all remember, the 5200 was a flop, as the controls didn't work half of the time, there was a limited library of games, and it was basically an Atari 8-Bit Computer (Like the Atari 400 or Atari 800 or Atari XEGS) in a console shell. And you could get more with the 8-Bit computers alone, and the 5200 games were basically ports of the 8-Bit Computer library.
Back in the day, I called the Atari 7800 an Atari 5200 with a Major Design Overhaul and Major Bugfix Patch. Also, when you do think about it... 2600 + 5200 = 7800 (Do The Math).
They don't have a P.R. problem, because if people read the peoduct descriptions posted ON ATARI's website, you will have seen that all of the games, bat the multi carts*, have been enhanced over the indie originals.
Real Sports Basketball also gets its first EVER official cartridge release.
All I'm hearing is overthinking, and moaning.
👌
I want a coleco plus
Me too. I wonder if Atari will both going after that property, though, since nearly all of Coleco's game library were licensed out from arcade companies.
So I'm happy that the 7800+ is coming out, as I don't have the 2600 yet. It also looks much better in terms of design and that's why it caught my interest. Together with the Spectrum it creates a nice picture.
I absolutely Love the new Atari. I bought a 2600+ and enjoy it. The firmware update needs a simple method (like via a website ala Stadia controllers and many others), the current method is ridiculously stupid & windows only.
The 7800 is my favorite Atari console aesthetically. So I'll pony up. They're putting out a lot of great products; I feel as though it's amazing to have Atari back. However, I'd be lying if I didn't admit this whole situation had burned up some goodwill.
That "The CX Stick" didn't help either. The cherry on top of the crap sundae is the shipping firmware in the 7800+ will play nice out the box with the Number Pad, Driving Controller etc (thanks to its new chips) but the 2600+ MAY never gain that ability. "Still working on it".
I didn’t buy the 2600+ so I don’t have the investment in that unit. But because of that I’m very excited about the 7800+ . I still get the compatibility in a more attractive box. The wireless controller and the in-box game also has me looking forward to this unit. Another plus is the Miner 2049er sequel that will be available for it. 😊
I have historically spent money on Atari since I have been an adult (The Vader 2600 was a Christmas gift when I was a kid). I am an original owner of the Jaguar and Jag CD and the Lynx. I bought the VCS 2 years ago and the Atari 2600 Plus last year. I just bought another VCS during the labor day sale when I realized the controllers alone got me to within $30 of the whole system price if I were to buy them separately. I have also bought a couple of fixer upper Atari Computers (400 and 800XL). I am willing to spend money for things I think I "need". I have not reached the "I think need" level with the 7800 Plus, especially since the wireless controller will be backwards compatible. If I had Nostalgia for the 7800 case it might be different. I do not have anything to gain by buying it. Thanks for the video and opening up the discussion, you made me think about why I had low interest for the system. I do like the peripherals and the games that are being released around this system.
It’s fine. And it makes sense. I would have preferred the 7800 controller though. I have the original control pad too but prefer the 7800 joysticks.
I think the sales of the 2600+ would have been hurt if it didn't have 7800 compatibility.
I didn't realize at first that it was compatible with 7800 cartridges.
But it ONLY plays game cartridges and that's why I wasn't interested. What is this? The '80s?
I never had nor wanted the original Atari VCS (later renamed 2600) so I never had anything to do with the game cartridges.
I only had game cartridges for my 8-bit Atari Home Computers that STILL only fit in the old computers.
It wasn't until earlier this year, when I got an actual Atari 7800 Pro System along with about two dozen game cartridges, that I even realized that the 7800 could play 2600 cartridges.
I was just taking a second look at the 2600+ because the joysticks on my 7800 don't work right.
That's when they announced the 7800+ and I actually got excited. I personally think it looks nicer than the 2600+ but all I really need is a replacement for the old joysticks so I have the CX78+ on preorder (I'm pissed that I missed the wired version of this.)
The 7800+ may be the same thing the 2600+ is in a new box, but it also has all the firmware updates which I understand haven't even been officially released for the 2600+ yet and if you can get them you need a Windows PC to apply them so that counts me out.
I 'm really looking forward to a side-by-side comparison of the 2600+ and the 7800+ (and maybe a 7800 Pro System as well).
I agree Jon, if they had maybe included 5200 game support within the 2600+, that progression would have covered that timeline as a completed set making the 7800+ the remaining of the original hardware and enabled the added introduction of the wireless functionality as the enhance driver to make it a worthy purchase in 2024. So yes, they might have dropped the ball here on the 7800+
Grrrr I’m looking forward to my 7800+ stop bagging it out
Bagging it out?
I agree with you Jon, you really broke it down!🤘🏻👍🏻🇺🇲
Agreed. I think Wade Rosen (bless his heart!) has his hands full trying to make Atari glorious and fruitful, but being overloaded with the attendant responsibilities, slipped up a little with this.
I’m a 2600 kid, so I purchased 2600+. I do greatly enjoy that it plays 7800 games! Since day one, “Impossible Mission” has been parked in the cartridge slot!
Anyway, I fully agree with your take. It appears that Atari failed to think this through - then again, I will probably buy a 7800+ even though I don’t need it. At 130 bucks, it’s a steal!
The 'didn't last year's version do that' logic never seemed to matter to AtGames with the Atari Flashbacks
Great point. But Atari's getting beat up over it.
Personally Im very excited for the 7800+. If I had bought the 2600+ then I might not be. I can see that point of view. Still, I do think it is a little weird to be critical of the new console just because you got extra functionality on the first one. But ok.
Neither of these emulation machines in disguise really sits right with me. Using fancy 2020s tech to build something that’s objectively worse than what we had in the 1970s in some ways - it’s a VCS, now with added loading times and reduced compatibility! Though it gets us HDMI output, which is a lot more useful these days than RF… I guess I’d prefer a combined 2600/5200/7800/130XE with a new VCS-*inspired* design.
I think you're exactly right. And I think they would sell more 7800 +(es) but on the flip side then people would be complaining that we should've waited to buy the 7800+ They're darned if they do and darned if they don't.
I kinda feel like they should have just dropped both at the same time. They do the same thing, save the wireless capabilities of the 7800+, but like the PC Engine/CoreGrafx/TurboGrafx minis, it's mostly aesthetic preferences. I think a lot of people would have preferred a 5200+ with new controllers which, of course was the weak point of the console. I certainly like the idea of these, but timing of these releases is odd.
I get you. If the 7800+ exists because of the success of the 2600+, then dropping at the same time wasn't an option because the latter wasn't yet planned. And if they were both planned for release (together or a year apart), having feature parity seems odd - unless, I suppose, it's just a design preference thing.
I think its about choice? So may like the look of the 7800+ better, personally I do like the look of it better than the 2600, so if it was me would go for the 7800
I'm not getting either one because I only go with original hardware run on CRT's, but I do agree with you on this topic
If they'd either released them simultaneously or at least made it public last year that a 7800+ version was in the works, it would have allowed customers to decide which one they'd rather purchase ahead of time (for those who wanted only one).
Either one looks like terrible business strategies. First choice they'd end up having to set up two entire production lines without much assurance if either one would sell well, increasing the risk of taking a loss, second choice they'd have a bunch of customers deciding not to buy the 2600+ waiting for the 7800+, giving a poor outlook of the product's market appeal
@@jackmcslay It's still a valid reason as to why a lot of customers might be pissed after hearing the announcement. I'm sure many who already bought the 2600+ would have preferred to go with the 7800+ package instead, had they known about it ahead of time.
@JackHammer77 I don't think a 7800+ was even on their minds until the positive response they got from the 2600+. They've been in contact with everyone on the AtariAge forums taking in feedback. I think this has some tweaks and is less confusing about it because you clearly know the newer hardware.
Oh for Pete’s sake. If a person buys a thing they bought that thing because they wanted it. A company is not allowed to come out with something else a year later? Next years car model now comes with a moon roof standard, you’re a sucker cause you bought last years model. Making me tired
@@dougzer0x Relax, Chief. I don't have any interest in buying either one. Just hypothesizing about the uproar.
I'm also a Gen X Grownup called Jon :) I have to agree, I think the 2600+ should have left 7800 compatibility in the locker room, because now there are two consoles, both of which have an identity crisis. I personally prefer the styling of the 7800+, but can also see the appeal of the 2600+, but I wouldn't want both (Well I have a real 7800 and several 2600 Jrs, so I don't need them). However I can see the collectors appeal, and I wonder if that is what it's aimed at. It also makes me wonder if the 2600+ may have a limited lifespan now that the 7800+ is out on the market. Not sure there is a good market for both and the 7800+ fits the bill better as the original had backwards compatibility too. What I do think is a great move though is the re-issue of the CX78 joypad in the + and wireless forms, and I have just pre-ordered the wireless model as I have a lot of machines it'll work with.
What gets me is the lack of information and answers to the questions the community has. With the new internals, does that provide better compatibility with controllers and games that dont work on the 2600+ or would a firmware update fix that? Because of the new interals, if it did provide better compatibility, I would buy it. Right now, I just dont know because I have not heard anything. I have looked on the website and it says near full compatibility with 3rd party games, but clicking on the "click here" does nothing. Hopefully they will clarify some things soon.
We're starting to get some of those answers. Recent videos released on AtariAge apparently show the keypad working with the 7800+.
If it was internally identical.... so what?
At the present price point you could have the 2600+ in one room, the 7800+ in another. You get to share downloads and carts. Win, win.
They could sell a new game with the update in it , that would be an easy way to fix all the issues with the 2600 plus
First off, if the 2600+ only played 2600 games. There would be more backlash l as people who paid $130 for the 2600 would have real reason to be upset with an inferior product. The only way this would have worked is if the 2600+ was $49.99 for it to only play 2600 games. There is nothing wrong with a reskin, etc.
From the UK marketplace standpoint, it's not looking all that rosy for the 7800+. I'm not sure how many preorder units of the 2600+ were sold in the first month but according to Amazon, over here the 2600+ and 7800+ are selling at the same rate of between 50 and 100 units a month. In contrast, The Spectrum has more than 2000 on preorder. Of course, it was the computer that a huge chunk of Brits would have owned BITD but many of us also had the 2600 as our first foray into gaming.
These are relatively inexpensive collectors devices. You have a choice of which to buy, both for sale and for
Indeed.
@@GenXGrownUp had original Atari with 6 switches, then the last 2600 so i could continue playing my favs. Never had the 7800 but my best friend did . So i think ill get the 7800+
Can't wait to get one , personally. Love it
I think you supposition is correct. It would have greatly changed my personal opinion of the 7800+… if I had already purchased the 2600+. But, with the added features, be they ever so slight, it makes the 2600+ a complete no-go for me now. I would only be looking at the 7800+. One thing that I am waiting to hear is if they fixed some of the cartridge compatibility issues that the 2600+ had. It wasn’t many. But, I have some of those.
Definitely grabbing a 7800+ and Bounty Bob game to show my support to the “new” Atari- but a Jaguar+ is the one I’m really waiting for! The Jag homebrew games just don’t stop coming it’s wild!
I was born in 1980 so I didn't have this stuff growing up. We did have a hand me down Intellivision (which I hope they do a plus of) but I have a Atari 2600 6xer made in Sunnyvale CA so I didn't get the 2600 plus but the 7800 plus I will get. It has more of an 80's look too. If Champ Games homebrew games worked on the 2600 plus I would of gotten it but I keep my og for the homebrews.
I personally think they should make them in a way where the 2600+ should only play 2600 and 2600+ games then the 7800+ only play 7800 and 7800+ games and at the same time the 7800+ having its backward compatibilities with 2600 and 2600+.
I missed the 2600+ launch and all the sweet collectible "XP" cartridge launches around it. I am here for the 7800+ a system I never owned and building a collection of 7800 titles so I'm happy for the form factor, gameplay, and even minor updates. Hopefully we'll see some "XP" limited run games along with it.
It's never too late to jump in!
Will it play the Atari age games? If so that’s worth the upgrade.i like my 2600 plus, but it won’t play most of my home brews
this video is also my exact same response, i also thought why, what for? i got the 2600+ great, then this just dropped as preorder on amazon, im in uk and uk release date is 29th nov, and i noticed the spectrum is the next retro games machine preorder for 22 nov over here in uk. i had to think about the 7800plus, i have indeed preordered because im nuts but yeah, erm i dont get it. i do love the wireless pad idea tho, nice.. these machines i think are aimed at us crazy folk anyway so they know we will buy them. amazon again ive just grabbed c64 maxi and the vic-20 machines, again the same thing as far as i know. waiting on delivery tho. we need a mattel intelevision cart machine next
Thanks for watching. I theorize as to who the 7800+ is best suited and more in this video from a week or two ago: ua-cam.com/video/0cB7f3Ozwvs/v-deo.html
@@GenXGrownUp The 7800 is for whoever is interested. Seems like you already have your opinion, don’t know why you’re asking others
If it didn't have the PAL styling, it would be a must have for me. As it is, I do want one, but I still have a working 7800, so it's hard not to see the 7800+ as a less compatible, worse looking small version of what I already have. It's like a Sega Genesis 3.
I think you're right that in hindsight (knowing that the 2600+ did so well ) Atari shouldn't have added support for 7800 carts in the 2600+ if they knew the 7800+ was coming. But on the other side... then they couldn't have named it 2600+, because then the plus wouldn't make any sense, knowing that the original 2600 does more (except for outputting HDMI). Maybe they could have called it the 2600-HD then
waiting for Xegs+ with 4 joystick ports
I think this product serves two different groups of people. People like you grew up with the old Atari. I think there is a group of people who may have been a bit too young for the old Atari but grew up with the 7800. I think for those people maybe the amount of things the console could do isn't necessarily the point. Now those people who remember the 7800 as their first console can have their nostalgic console for them.
I agree with you Jon. Atari should have not made the 2600+ retroactively play 7800 at this time. I also felt, my personal insights and opinion anyway, is that because of the success of the 2600+'s release they rushed into this possibly to market to those that preferred the 7800 esthetics over the 2600.
However I think/believe had they withheld until next year the possibility of it landing better with the Atari community would have been accepted better that I've read on Atari groups on FB so far.
I saw the site and notice the info is the same as the 2600 plus, that is so weird. I have the org one back in the 90's and I love it and will not stop playing games on it. Since I got the GameDrive for the system. I can play the games without ware and tear on the cartridge slot. Plus it plays really good with the up convert on the video port. Plus new controllers that looks like the org 7800 game pad. LOVE IT!
So I look at this very much like TheC64 and TheVIC20. They both do the same exact thing, the only difference being the shell color, key caps, and there's some small differences in the included games. Otherwise, they're identical in terms of functionality. It gave VIC20 fans something to look forward to which didn't have the costs of creating an entirely new platform (though TheVIC20 was branded as a limited run TheC64 rather than a "new" unit). It's a low risk move that expands the fan base they can tap into.
What we have here is the same situation, except the 7800+ gets an additional bonus since it supports wireless controllers out of the box. This is Atari catering to 7800 fans, which is something we should be happy about. I'm pretty sure much (if not all) of the software stack will be shared between both units, so again, a much lower cost to bring to market vs an entirely "new" unit and it's expanding their audience. It's not like 2600+ owners are losing anything**.
If you're not a die-hard 7800 fan and already have a 2600+, there's no reason to double dip. If you're a 7800 fan, here's something that may get you to buy into the ecosystem they're trying to establish. If you're a fan of both, you get to decide if there's reason enough to buy twice. I'm just glad Atari is looking to reach as many folks as possible, it's good for them, their fans, and good for homebrew developers that want to see their games reach more people.
** = Assuming Atari does release a full 2600+ update package that's on par w/ whatever the 7800+ gets. Again, if they're common hardware and software wise, that should make it easier to support both platforms and they may even use the same firmware bundle / update process. It'd be the smart move, and it'd keep owners of both systems at the same compatibility level. It's just up to Atari to get firmware updates released in a timely fashion going forward.
Ultimately I think it would have been a better idea to create a 5200+, rather than the 7800+, since its features are already included in the 2600+, but it's still a good thing.
i preordered it, but this is about the same price as a real 7800 and has the euro style controllers. It hooks up no problem to a modern tv and the controllers are wireless. An improved model of something I wanted at a reasonable price.
5200+ with modern controllers that are backwards compatible would be another great option. They would turn a profit from controller sales alone
Especially of those things could be connected to a PC via USB!
That's an interesting conversation. Neither one really tugs at my nostalgia, so when I saw the release, I said to myself "Neat!" and moved on.
On the one hand I can understand some of the frustration, but at the same time, it might be easier to swallow if people think of this along the lines of a console variant. Like a 2600+ with slightly upgraded control options (wireless capabilities baked in), and a 7800-themed skin.
All in all it's a lot like when modern consoles will do an exclusive deco. ie the Nintendo Switch has it's normal deco, but they also make Switches that are inspired by Pokemon, Super Mario Bros, Legend of Zelda, Animal Crossing, etc. Xbox and PlayStation do the same thing with some of their games. You don't have to buy every version of these consoles, but some fans will pick up a variant of the console because they're a fan of the franchise.
I think that might be the best way to view these consoles, especially if they plan to release other Atari consoles.
I agree with you that the 2600 should not have been compatible with 7800. The 7800+ would sell more but... when I find the reason to budget to buy yet another game system, I will order the 7800+. Why, I am an ATARI fan and this piece is cool. Now, what does ATARI have planned for that ATARI 5200. And since ATARI has the rights to Intellivision.....The story continues.
I ordered a 7800+ and i already have a 2600+.