This was SUPERB Ape! Very good explanation and data results between both mix types. Bravo! For those using really high power (legal limit) I would suggest the type 2 mix as it will take the heat much better than 43, but at the expense of peaking on only a few bands. There is not enough inductance for 160-80M unless you use a very LARGE T-400A-2 toroid. Do NOT use type 2 as a RF choke to attenuate common mode currents on the coax shield. Type 2 mix is a high Q factor and is perfect for making inductors and tuned circuits, but it is not good for absorbing a wide range of frequencies like RFI. This is why I use 43 or 31 mix for my CM chokes. 73👍
Why is it whenever you say "Toe_Roid, I think Hemroid ....LOL??? Love your content. Best on the net. I carry two 9-1 transformers. One is best on higher bands, the other on lower bands as tested. It's hard to get a transformer that performs great on both sides of the spectrum. Or maybe I'm just lazy. In either case, I like having the most efficient antenna system I can make.
I'm surprised it worked as well as it did. Looking it up, those cores have an AL value of around 10, which gives 1uH of inductance or 130ohms of impedance at 21Mhz. Type 43 cores have an Al value of 850 and give 70uH inductance with 9 turns, which is around 10k ohms impedance at 21mhz. You need low values of inductance for filters, these things will probably shine in filter application - maybe repurpose them for high-pass AM blocking.
I apologize if this was already asked; The spread sheet says T200 Mix 2? Maybe you mentioned something in the video. I'm sure you tested Mix 6 and the sheet was just a typeo, but thought to ask to be sure.
A red and clear (or gray) powdered iron core is a Mix-2 core, not a Mix-6 core. Mix-6 is a yellow and clear (or gray) core. People get confused about the 'clear' notation since the core material itself is a gray color, so in the case of core materials, a clear coating gives you gray. Thermal considerations aside, the widely accepted rule of thumb for broadband transformer applications like this antenna impedance matching application is that they are typically implemented best with a ferrite core, like the Mix-42, while powdered iron core materials like Mix-2 and Mix-6 are typically best for specific frequency (meaning tuned/resonant circuits,) applications like IF stage coupling, or filters. Generally, Mix-2 is better for the lower HF range while Mix-6 is better above 20 meters. Again, this is for specific, tuned frequency applications, not broadband applications. Powdered iron is simply too lossy in broadband applications.
to use a mix2 at low frequencies you will have to stack the cores or put on more winding. Those cores have vastly different AL values. Really, the only way to do this is to have the same amount of inductance on the cores. There is nothing wrong with the red core, your test was done wrong.Powdered ferritite 2 mix cores have lower loss than a mix 43 ferrite. Ferrites and powdered iron cores can not be compared 1:1 unless the AL of the core is being taken into consideration. What you made was a 20+Mhz transformer. With those few wires a red mix 2 core would NEVER work on lower frequencies. You just do not get enough inductance and coupling with those few windings.
Learn about Chokes, Baluns and UnUns for Ham Radio Antennas: ua-cam.com/play/PLm8ROkpFeqoqkGQtBYfcT9Y-2GCKxBuuk.html
I love these videos.
Will you be covering air core ununs?
Thanks for the awesome content!
Glad you like the videos. I have really messed with the air cores but I suppose I could look into it...
Great test done with simple test equipment in an easy to understand format. What more could I ask for! Thanks Ape!
Thanks Fox, glad you liked it 👍
Such an intelligent man. Explains thing very well and smiply.
Thanks
Thanks Mike, glad you liked the video 👍
Great service APE keep up the great work.
Thanks Ferdinand 👍
Always like a good toeroid video
haha, me too
Them red toroids will snatch your soul 🤣 Good stuff, Ape.
Yes they will, beware!
This was SUPERB Ape! Very good explanation and data results between both mix types. Bravo!
For those using really high power (legal limit) I would suggest the type 2 mix as it will take the heat much better than 43, but at the expense of peaking on only a few bands. There is not enough inductance for 160-80M unless you use a very LARGE T-400A-2 toroid. Do NOT use type 2 as a RF choke to attenuate common mode currents on the coax shield. Type 2 mix is a high Q factor and is perfect for making inductors and tuned circuits, but it is not good for absorbing a wide range of frequencies like RFI. This is why I use 43 or 31 mix for my CM chokes. 73👍
Great info Hollywood, thanks for the comment 👍
Really interesting and well put together, thanks
Thanks Dave, glad you liked it...
“TheSmokinApe Industries”, where do I send my application?
Email I guess, don't forget the 50$ application fee!
I think there are special creams to treat toe-roids. Might make walking difficult until fully absorbed.
I need some of that stuff!
Great info as always. Thanks for the testing
Thanks for checking it out Jason, much appreciated 👍
Execellent Job presenting this!
Thanks man, glad you liked it 👍
Awsome Video, Ape 💯👌
Thank you, glad you liked it!
Why is it whenever you say "Toe_Roid, I think Hemroid ....LOL??? Love your content. Best on the net. I carry two 9-1 transformers. One is best on higher bands, the other on lower bands as tested. It's hard to get a transformer that performs great on both sides of the spectrum. Or maybe I'm just lazy. In either case, I like having the most efficient antenna system I can make.
I think we all have a bunch of antennas, lol. Glad you liked the video John, thanks for watching.
Awesome!! Thanks for sharing this!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Red is how they get ya.
Yep.
I'm surprised it worked as well as it did. Looking it up, those cores have an AL value of around 10, which gives 1uH of inductance or 130ohms of impedance at 21Mhz. Type 43 cores have an Al value of 850 and give 70uH inductance with 9 turns, which is around 10k ohms impedance at 21mhz.
You need low values of inductance for filters, these things will probably shine in filter application - maybe repurpose them for high-pass AM blocking.
You know, I was surprised too 👀
I apologize if this was already asked; The spread sheet says T200 Mix 2? Maybe you mentioned something in the video. I'm sure you tested Mix 6 and the sheet was just a typeo, but thought to ask to be sure.
D'OH! You're right, good catch!
@@TheSmokinApe Really good information and helpful. I've never considered iron over ferrite, but now I know why I shouldn't :) Thanks
@@TheSmokinApeactually the cores in the video are TYPE 2. Type 2 are red and type 6 are yellow!!!
I wonder why the instructions for my EARC End Fed 6-40 m antenna specify a T130-2 powdered iron toroid?
That was a popular core back in the day, here is a video I did on the Earchi: ua-cam.com/video/9KPZO2-K76g/v-deo.html
wonder which would get hotter faster the ferrite core or the powdered iron core when you shove 100-200 watts into it.
I suppose we need to test that, thanks for watching Thump 👍
A red and clear (or gray) powdered iron core is a Mix-2 core, not a Mix-6 core. Mix-6 is a yellow and clear (or gray) core. People get confused about the 'clear' notation since the core material itself is a gray color, so in the case of core materials, a clear coating gives you gray.
Thermal considerations aside, the widely accepted rule of thumb for broadband transformer applications like this antenna impedance matching application is that they are typically implemented best with a ferrite core, like the Mix-42, while powdered iron core materials like Mix-2 and Mix-6 are typically best for specific frequency (meaning tuned/resonant circuits,) applications like IF stage coupling, or filters. Generally, Mix-2 is better for the lower HF range while Mix-6 is better above 20 meters. Again, this is for specific, tuned frequency applications, not broadband applications. Powdered iron is simply too lossy in broadband applications.
Totally agree John, and I did get the 2 and the 6 mixed up.
They sell an ointment for when you got red toe-roids.
I need some of that stuff.
And that's all you can say about that.
Just about.
I had a case of toe-roids once. Some antibiotics took care of it. I still think you have an EE degree but are too humble to admit it.
Be careful Threadripper, like a bad check toe-roids always comes back...
This is almost as hard to wrap my head around as freaking OpAmps.
At first it's all confusing, over time it become more clear.
Cool.
Oh, drop a 10k across that 470 and it will be REAL close to 450.
Good idea, thanks Lee 👍
Good science, thank you, de KI5DPA
Thanks for watching Michael 👍
Don't let them fool ya! Toroids is flat, not round!
I thought that it was our secret?
to use a mix2 at low frequencies you will have to stack the cores or put on more winding. Those cores have vastly different AL values. Really, the only way to do this is to have the same amount of inductance on the cores. There is nothing wrong with the red core, your test was done wrong.Powdered ferritite 2 mix cores have lower loss than a mix 43 ferrite. Ferrites and powdered iron cores can not be compared 1:1 unless the AL of the core is being taken into consideration. What you made was a 20+Mhz transformer. With those few wires a red mix 2 core would NEVER work on lower frequencies. You just do not get enough inductance and coupling with those few windings.
Thank for the info GJ
You look roided out.🥴
We appreciate your suffering for all of us!😊
How does that itty bitty vna get so many data points?😮
I am roided out, you can increase the points in the software.
@@TheSmokinApe wow, I didn't know that. Nice!
Book yourself into a day spa to escape toe-roids. :)