I feel like the main problem is how the DPS passive effects tanks, so individual changes to HP and shield HP wouldn't be the way to go. The best option would probably be changing how the DPS passive effects tanks and not changing the health on tanks or their shields.
I still think it should have to be a damage threshold based on percentage of total base health. That way tanks can still be impacted, but won't have to deal with the oppression of the passive all the time.
The problem was, though, that tanks could stand in the open getting pocketed and literally never die. Literally you could not kill hog, Orisa, dva, rein, mauga, ram, etc especially if they were double pocketed and even remotely used their cooldowns well at all. 3 to 4 people blasting a hog would see his health GO UP. We can’t go back to that. It’s miserable.
Almost like they should nerf tank survivability and add a second tank to compensate. There used to be a game that did that exact thing. Only issue was shields but theyve pretty much fixed that in OW2.
@@buffhorses3632 Ya'll need to stop glorifying stuff everyone bitched about for years. When Overwatch 2 came out it was nearly universally said that 5v5 was an improvement. The revisionist history is wild.
Improvement compared to double shield double mitigation (sigma, orisa) abandonedwatch @@BilingualRainbow 6v6 when nobody picked that shit was great, and I played OW1 since closed beta, I dont need shi+heads like you to decide if I can remember something or not
@@BilingualRainbow Because it was somthing new. How many years was it that they just left ow1 to rot to work on the PVE content of ow2? They only bitched about it because that's what we had at the time. Guess what they're bitching about 5v5 now and even if we go back to 6v6 they're going to bitch. There's no right answer only the lesser of two evils. Which is 6v6.
In reference to emmongs healing comment it is a pretty simple fix. Decreasing a tanks health but giving them damage reduction will make the healing that they receive more impactful.
Yeah no amount of number changes can fix the role. The tank is the crux of any team fight and whoever’s tank is better in the 1v1 will win more often than not. Because of that, resources/big cooldowns and counter picking will almost always be centered around the tank making the whole experience not worth the effort and again NO AMOUNT OF NUMBER CHANGES WILL ALLEVIATE THAT BECAUSE THAT IS HOW THEY DESIGNED THE GAME WITH THE TRANSITION TO 5v5. For my tank mains out there, how many times have you been instantly counter swapped for performing slightly above average in the first team fight? A lot, it happens a lot and it’s infuriating. That’s why queue times are still abysmally low even though we’ve hit 100 million accounts on overwatch which is honestly crazy. 5v5 absolutely can work for a hero shooter, but that’s not how overwatch was originally designed and it’s rearing its head for the tank role specifically. Their reluctance to even acknowledge this issue makes it more apparent they have no idea what to do
and for anyone arguing that counter-swapping isn’t as effective as outplaying someone. It isn’t, that’s why a meta is a meta. It’s the most effective strategy for the least amount of effort at all levels.
@@thederpydazer to be a bit more specific, the meta has seeped into all ranks because of counterswapping. There will always be a meta, but as long as it requires skill to execute, then it'll still be a fair meta. Counterswapping takes zero skill. That's why *everyone* gets tired of Hog/Orisa/Mauga meta, because everyone from Bronze to GM is affected by it.
I played a game yesterday (Rein the whole match) where the other tank literally swapped to every tank hero except ball in the match. It happens quite a lot.
@j.r.6271 yeah if they play a tank then go ram then mirror the go stuff like hog mauga orisa and they still lose. That's more of a team difference at that point
pharah is so high because of how much damage and Splash damage she does imo like i have to aim to actually hit you in the air but you can hit the ground next to me and do 50-100 damage. at lower ranks people.can.not.AIM! so she goes Uncontested with a mercy pocket or an ana shoving heals in her back. they should nerf the splash damage a bit and the range of it and i think shes fine.
Even if you have relatively decent aim the splash damage of her rockets will eliminate you before you can deal enough damage. And if you arent a master at dodging rockets you wont be able to run behind cover, because the AOE is so huge.
pharah is even stronger at high ranks than low ranks. it doesn't take good aim to hit a pharah, but better pharahs do a much better job of staying alive
What's crazy to me is that I have the Rein win % they listed as 'very high' as a high gold/low plat Rein. I'm sitting at exactly 60% win rate on Rein this season as of this morning. I'm also rocking a 55% win rate on JQ which is crazy because she feels really weak to me.
I mean as a junkerqueen main literally if you play her even if u time her playstyle correctly she literally constantly die u get in there face u die u pull em to u die. Literally if theres mauga u instantly die.
2k hp shield for Reinhardt is back. I hate how I legit said like 3 months ago "we're more likely to get 2k hp Rein shield than 6v6" Hope they nerf Pharah somewhat though. Not really sure how, but I think she needs a lil tweak rn.
I think they should change the tank passive to be a 50% reduction to all debuffs/cc (including the dps passive). Once they do that, they can nerf their healthpools or damage to make sure they aren't oppressive. Imo that'd improve the consistency of the role so it feels less boom or bust.
I've been saying this for so long. Tank passive doesn't need to be a survivability passive like knockback and damage, all tanks already have ways to mitigate that (Fortify, Commanding Shout, Roll form, etc.) They need a bad ailment protection that reduces CC effectiveness and negative status conditions (discord orb, slows, anti-nade, etc.) For the role whose job is to absorb as much CC and damage for their team, they're probably the role that dies to CC the quickest.
@@akai_shuichi_x that could work but hog would probably need his old take a breather back so he can be punished his only counter play is anti and discord currently
@@savage3PC Probably, honestly I really dislike Hog's evolution. Instead of being a glass cannon he can vape/hook whenever he wants. If they gave him 1 or 2 of his old nerfs, he would be less frustrating to play against with a 50% cc reduction: - He couldn't use cooldowns during his ultimate - Couldn't move during vape, - Had a higher hook cooldown - Couldn't one-shot
Lowly Bronze support here. We need 2 supports on Mauga at all times, because he deciedes to charge 1v5 on low health. In the open. He probably thinks he rolled a Salvador's Sexual Tyranosaurus build on Borderlands 2.
For rein in particular, his shield needs an active that makes it take reduced damage, or maybe even no damage, for a short time. His shield is great when shuttling your team from cover to cover, but the moment a team fight breaks out, your shield is gone in 2 seconds and you're reduced to a face tank hammer bot. Being able to actually block something significant like a tank mode bastion is something every tank needs to be able to do if they manage their cooldowns correctly. As it is, the only way rein can counter a high dps ability like tank bastion, soj/sold ult etc is to play hard cover and pray to GabeN his team does too.
They are always too quick to let nerfs settle. The whole reason the win rate drops so dramatically after nerfs was because those characters were playing on easy mode the whole time (Orisa) and people never really learnt how to be good at those characters because they didn't need to be.
I don’t know anymore. People hate when tanks have too much hp, too much armor, or too much shield. People also hate when tanks die fast. I don’t know what the answer is anymore. People don’t like when the tank is unkillable and they also hate when the tank doesn’t have any big effects like making huge plays. Tank weak = bad, tank neutral = bad, tank strong = bad.
@@D9bi Not sure why the devs said this though there are a lot of ways where their tankiness is turned off like a switch (swap comps and hard countering tank above all others). It definitely should be approached differently.
This is why I stopped playing OW2. No one is ever happy playing it. Why play a game where you only get the one fun game every 20 games. I forgot that I used to play games to have fun. Overwatch is not fun because they made it competitive focusedZ
There has never been a moment in overwatch history that the entire population of players was happy that I can remember. There is no right answer. 2 tanks is way more fun for the player and solves most of the tank issues. However it makes 4 other players game worse because of que times. So really the answer is we need more tank players total so we can go back to 6v6
@7:22 ...i think its a pretty interesting balance idea to add 1 or 2 more passives per role so you can avoid overbuffing some heroes like tracer...its probably a balancing nightmare though so i doubt it...but i can hope for at least 1 more passive per role...like maybe something that buffs dps move speed at lower hp (or increased reload speed?)? or something that lets armor regen like shields do? or maybe let the supports healing split to heal hp AND armor/shield at same time?
hearing them talk about fulfilling rein's hero fantasy by buffing his shield worries me. He's a massive german armored dude with a F#%* you hammer that he swings around when he's not rocket-charging opponents into a wall, and they think his shield is the hero fantasy?
It’s all from the dps passive, it was fine when they nerfed it mid season cuz supports were able to actually keep up, now that it’s back up to its release percentage supports are starting to struggle and lord forgive you if your team doesn’t use natural cover, Overwatch seems to be entering a only dps players can have fun era and I fear the other roles will suffer from it (or they just leave support in the mud for 5 seasons who knows)
Take the stun/interupt mechanic off the hog hook so you can fight back and people will stop being upset about it. I also think tank passive should prevent a tank from being pulled full distance by a hook or jq knife
JQ knife pull on tanks was explicitly changed to ignore the knockback reduction *because* it felt really bad for her to barely pull tanks with the knife. Maybe it could be slightly reduced from normal but overall I feel it's better for her effectiveness to ignore that knockback reduction (and plus, tank is the one role where that sorta CC belongs)
@@DJBaphomet I'm aware they did that but I think it makes more sense for it to be hard to move tanks with it. just my opinion tho. I don't even play tank
@@Andrew00279 it is pointless if they only get pulled 2 inches by the knife though. But I always said that it made no sense that Hog can pull a tank the full distance and not get the tank passive applied to his hook.
I would rather see four or five DPS passives. Sniper - 50% more headshot damage. Sustain - reduces healing by 20%. Assassin - first half of the magazine deals more damage. Stuff like that. And make sure only one affects the target to keep confusion to a minimum.
hmmm...random idea for rein buff - make it so that taking dmg to his shield gives him TEMPORARY shield overheal (like ball or sigma)...that way even if his shield is insta nuked he at least has some bonus to survival
I do feel like they should do this with all the categories Make two support categories, two DPS categories and two tank categories so they get different passives and can be balanced separately Cuz in no way should Winston and mauga be balanced similarly
@@sebastianrodriguez8992 i agree with this but we should also think about the idea that if it takes this much to balance role passives they should just be removed from the game entirely. the hero cast is so diverse in their kits that role passives are distributed unfairly across the game. every tank, every dps, every support will never get equal value from a role passive as their counterparts.
@@sebastianrodriguez8992 role passives, as they are now and as they have been since ow2 began, feel entirely experimental and with no noticeable affect; or impact the game so much that the rest of the game is held hostage by it(dps passive). adapting and reworking role passives again and again has only added to the power creep in ow2. they have cancelled everything that makes ow2 a sequel except for the things that have caused problems for the game because that's the little bit of identity the new dev team has left to call it their own.
i don't like how long it takes them to implement changes. Possibly having to wait until season 12 for a few balance changes? It always feels like you're playing a bad version of the game and arbitrary deadlines are being set for changes that everyone wants ASAP. I understand they can't patch the game whenever they want because of crossplay, but this is hurting the PC community. They should make it so PC ranked is updated more frequently and let quickplay be bottlenecked by console release schedules
Are we gonna have to try every single number before the devs understand that this isn’t good enough for tanks to be fun and viable in 5v5. Half the tanks should just be moved into the dps role because the only tanks your allowed to play is hog, Orisa, mauga.
They fucked the tanks with the armour changes and the dps passive. No amount of "talking" can fix that. They made the game for DPS players now, it used to be a support game in the first 8 seasons. It was never about tanks
It was in seasons 1 to 3, do you not remember how strong Zarya and Hog were, how about Ram with infinite ult or those 2 week spells where Doom, Rein and JQ got giga buffed before being nerfed again.
It's been a DPS game since we went to 5v5: > Notice how all the "good tanks" are legit just beefy DPS characters. > During Support-dominant seasons the dominant supports were basically DPS with a million escape tools and "I win" buttons. The DPS passive was a necessary evil to kill both of the above. Damage numbers need to be dialled back for each role at this point though on top of per hero changes. Tanks would stop blowing up as quickly if they did that.
@bigfudge2031 it's only ever one character being extremely dominant which implies the character is broken not the role. Also when was rein ever gigabuffed I played for a year straight and bro got legit 2 changes until recently(One of which was a nerf)
@@bigfudge2031not to be that guy , I know what ur saying BUT Tanks weren’t strong in season 1-3 bc the devs wanted them to be strong . They were strong as an aftermath of going to 5v5 . They were overtuned bc they didn’t know how to balance them to be in 5v5(they still don’t but not the point lol ) . That’s why tanks haven’t been strong since .
“Man reins a bit of a slog to play, I feel like I just stand around with my shield” WE HEAR YOUR CRIES, MORE SHIELD HEALTH FOR REIN!! “Wait..no-“ JOB COMPLETE! TIME FOR AN IPA!
I like watching emongg from time to time, but bro, every season he's like "I'm having fun, but i understand the problem" to the. Being like not even a season later "i was terrible feeling to play tank like 2 seasons ago"
Please not another passive or exception to a rule in the game. Its already confusing enough with the various different passives, exceptions to them and inconsistencies between roles, don't add even more.
if you're talking about picture-in-picture (exiting an app with the video staying in a box), afaik it should work for anything that youtube doesn't count as music. At least, thats how it works on ios
How hard can it be? Change all CC to take half effect on tanks, Anas sleep already has that effect on tanks 3 vs 6 seconds on tanks vs dps, let the same be for Anas anti-nade, same damage but half the duration you can't be healed, the dps passive down to 10%, zen discord orb which is easier to deal with since you can just LoS, and then it can't be re-applied for 8 seconds, tanks still needs to be punished for mistakes, that is why cc and area of effect still needs to exist, however diminished. However tanks don't need more damage or shorter cooldowns! They need to feel more tanky, not more damage! Tanky means surviving longer! I also saw the most stupid take from devs - Future supports will have less mobility, since they don't need to shoot back! There is a reason the OW2 dev team was the only team on whole Blizzard that didn't recieve any bonus - The game was and is still too bad! In their world one role needs to be bad in order for another role to be strong - And if they had beta-testers they would have gotten the data that the dps passive of 20% would destroy tanks, then they nerfed it just to buff it back up again - Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results!
@ Arron Keller, look maybe YOUR hero fantasy for Rein is holding up his shield but maaaaaaaaaaaaaan it's not most people's hero fantasy for playing Rein.
I have a love hate relationship with tanke as support player. On one hand i agree that tanks needs to be buffed. On the other hand i dont want to encourage more tank players to charge to narnia cause they believe its my ana ass jobb to hookshot myself forward like a widow to bail them out.
They don't need to be buffed, idk where everyone gets the idea that tanks are weak? They FEEL bad because they get the hard focus from the enemy team. We are hitting mega mega MEGA power creep territory. How much can tank be buffed until they are unstoppable? Because I don't think there is a between balanced state. It is either tank is going to get hard focused and die, or hard focused and kill everything. They already got buffed, and now next season is a tank patch too???
Bro they will do all this constant bugs and needs to tank when the answer is 6v6 that way thanks can take control of the map again feel impactful and make moves.
just go back to 2 tanks, but put them at lower HP than the current role queue, so it's not just shield spam. lower health + passive health regen seems like an ok balance
Idk about you guys, but being stuck down here in the medal ranks makes me think tanks are tanky. Although its probabky just because nobody can shoot anything, even the biggest targets in the game.
The problem with tank balance, is tanks do way too much f*cking damage, to also be tanky. Most of the tanks can oneshot combo, or quickly 2 shot someone before supports can react. If they want tanks to be tanky and fill a tank role, they need to nerf their damage and overall solo kill potential, while buffing their ability to make space and control fights. Hog being able to hook more often would be fine if he wasn't out here deleting people. Zarya if fundamentally broken, as she either gets focused and deleted, or she just runs around with max or near max charge and deletes everyone. Zarya needs something like 3 bubbles and dramatically reduced damage compared to current max charge. As for Rein, more shield sounds like the most unfun bs, but Rein has nothing on his Ctrl keybind, and they could give him a damage reduction ability/short speed boost to engage in melee combat and take space. There's also nothing fun about doom pounding you into a wall and killing you with his primary while you are sitting in a stun and can do nothing. Tanks are just poorly designed.
Reduce dps passive for tanks to 10%. Reduce the ult charge you will keep as a tank when counterpicking to 0 and give tanks a little advantage when getting high burst dmg, stun, hack and so on. This advantage could be reduced cooldowns or even ult charge, so they can get value of getting focused to much or hardcountered. This will not solve the rock, paper, scissors but playing tank will be more fun. These changes should be tested before fully implemented, but they should test drastic changes bc the tank role is really fucked up right know. Thats my standpoint :)
Who cares which tanks counter each other, that is part of the problem. it seems like all tank players want to do is counter-swap instead of toughing it out or at the very least have a respectful mirror match.
@@bigfudge2031 yes i agree. I'm so anti swap in qp i one trick rein and relish when the enemy tank goes through 5 tanks and we still win. There's always a chance but sometimes it seems there's a whole team of rein counters lol. Disclaimer: Console silver qp
Per Hero passives should be a very good option and it is a thing in many other hero-based games and mobas. One that comes to mind is League of Legends, where the passive ability is part of the kit and just as important and impactful as the other abilities on the character.
Are you kidding me… you want to make tanks more tanking? I am waiting for VALORANT on console and I will switch immediately. I play support and our entire team rolled by an enemy orissa. This is ridiculous
I agree with Emongg I don’t think the problem is how tanky they are. If anything they are too tanky right now because it feels like a sustain meta now which is the least fun and exciting imo. Make the support passive a passive for every role with the same amount of time to start health regeneration. Remove the tank and dps passives and armor changes. Then just make tanks have slightly lower health but make them more threatening so they’re more fun to play. That would fix literally every issue everyone has with the game balance right now.
I'm sorry emongg but this narrative that Rein is "fun" to play against NEEDS TO STOP. Shooting at shields is not fun. Streamers need to STOP LYING about this.
If it's boring then go play something else. Most ppl just have the issue of the game being infuriating but they still feel the want to play. If you don't like playing it and it bored you then move on. Come back in a month or two
I feel like the main problem is how the DPS passive effects tanks, so individual changes to HP and shield HP wouldn't be the way to go. The best option would probably be changing how the DPS passive effects tanks and not changing the health on tanks or their shields.
I still think it should have to be a damage threshold based on percentage of total base health. That way tanks can still be impacted, but won't have to deal with the oppression of the passive all the time.
Found the silver
All they have to do is decrease the effectiveness on tanks and then individually nerf mauga
I still Think The Dps Passive Should Require Like (50) So Damage, Before The Effects Gets Applied. Obviously it can get adjusted accordingly
@@brendanwild3946So, tell me, how is it down there in silver?
The problem was, though, that tanks could stand in the open getting pocketed and literally never die. Literally you could not kill hog, Orisa, dva, rein, mauga, ram, etc especially if they were double pocketed and even remotely used their cooldowns well at all. 3 to 4 people blasting a hog would see his health GO UP. We can’t go back to that. It’s miserable.
Almost like they should nerf tank survivability and add a second tank to compensate. There used to be a game that did that exact thing. Only issue was shields but theyve pretty much fixed that in OW2.
@@buffhorses3632 Ya'll need to stop glorifying stuff everyone bitched about for years. When Overwatch 2 came out it was nearly universally said that 5v5 was an improvement. The revisionist history is wild.
@@BilingualRainbow The ONLY improvement was queue times, and we don't even know if it'll be bad in 6v6 now that it's F2P
Improvement compared to double shield double mitigation (sigma, orisa) abandonedwatch @@BilingualRainbow
6v6 when nobody picked that shit was great, and I played OW1 since closed beta, I dont need shi+heads like you to decide if I can remember something or not
@@BilingualRainbow Because it was somthing new. How many years was it that they just left ow1 to rot to work on the PVE content of ow2? They only bitched about it because that's what we had at the time. Guess what they're bitching about 5v5 now and even if we go back to 6v6 they're going to bitch. There's no right answer only the lesser of two evils. Which is 6v6.
In reference to emmongs healing comment it is a pretty simple fix. Decreasing a tanks health but giving them damage reduction will make the healing that they receive more impactful.
Yeah no amount of number changes can fix the role. The tank is the crux of any team fight and whoever’s tank is better in the 1v1 will win more often than not. Because of that, resources/big cooldowns and counter picking will almost always be centered around the tank making the whole experience not worth the effort and again NO AMOUNT OF NUMBER CHANGES WILL ALLEVIATE THAT BECAUSE THAT IS HOW THEY DESIGNED THE GAME WITH THE TRANSITION TO 5v5. For my tank mains out there, how many times have you been instantly counter swapped for performing slightly above average in the first team fight? A lot, it happens a lot and it’s infuriating. That’s why queue times are still abysmally low even though we’ve hit 100 million accounts on overwatch which is honestly crazy. 5v5 absolutely can work for a hero shooter, but that’s not how overwatch was originally designed and it’s rearing its head for the tank role specifically. Their reluctance to even acknowledge this issue makes it more apparent they have no idea what to do
and for anyone arguing that counter-swapping isn’t as effective as outplaying someone. It isn’t, that’s why a meta is a meta. It’s the most effective strategy for the least amount of effort at all levels.
Also there’s no reason for censoring this comment either, the sentiment is there and you KNOW it’s true
@@thederpydazer to be a bit more specific, the meta has seeped into all ranks because of counterswapping. There will always be a meta, but as long as it requires skill to execute, then it'll still be a fair meta.
Counterswapping takes zero skill. That's why *everyone* gets tired of Hog/Orisa/Mauga meta, because everyone from Bronze to GM is affected by it.
I played a game yesterday (Rein the whole match) where the other tank literally swapped to every tank hero except ball in the match. It happens quite a lot.
@j.r.6271 yeah if they play a tank then go ram then mirror the go stuff like hog mauga orisa and they still lose. That's more of a team difference at that point
pharah is so high because of how much damage and Splash damage she does imo like i have to aim to actually hit you in the air but you can hit the ground next to me and do 50-100 damage. at lower ranks people.can.not.AIM! so she goes Uncontested with a mercy pocket or an ana shoving heals in her back. they should nerf the splash damage a bit and the range of it and i think shes fine.
Even if you have relatively decent aim the splash damage of her rockets will eliminate you before you can deal enough damage. And if you arent a master at dodging rockets you wont be able to run behind cover, because the AOE is so huge.
pharah is even stronger at high ranks than low ranks. it doesn't take good aim to hit a pharah, but better pharahs do a much better job of staying alive
Not to mention, half the cast literally cannot interact with her if they're equally skilled. What a terribly designed hero.
I really think they should revert her projectile buff
@derunfassbarebielecki sounds like a skill issue
The thing that has historically separated Overwatch from other shooter games for me has been the focus on team play.
What's crazy to me is that I have the Rein win % they listed as 'very high' as a high gold/low plat Rein. I'm sitting at exactly 60% win rate on Rein this season as of this morning. I'm also rocking a 55% win rate on JQ which is crazy because she feels really weak to me.
I mean as a junkerqueen main literally if you play her even if u time her playstyle correctly she literally constantly die u get in there face u die u pull em to u die. Literally if theres mauga u instantly die.
2k hp shield for Reinhardt is back.
I hate how I legit said like 3 months ago "we're more likely to get 2k hp Rein shield than 6v6"
Hope they nerf Pharah somewhat though. Not really sure how, but I think she needs a lil tweak rn.
I think they should change the tank passive to be a 50% reduction to all debuffs/cc (including the dps passive). Once they do that, they can nerf their healthpools or damage to make sure they aren't oppressive.
Imo that'd improve the consistency of the role so it feels less boom or bust.
I've been saying this for so long. Tank passive doesn't need to be a survivability passive like knockback and damage, all tanks already have ways to mitigate that (Fortify, Commanding Shout, Roll form, etc.) They need a bad ailment protection that reduces CC effectiveness and negative status conditions (discord orb, slows, anti-nade, etc.) For the role whose job is to absorb as much CC and damage for their team, they're probably the role that dies to CC the quickest.
this is stupid some tanks will become braindead because of this hog and Mauga especially
@savage3PC But if they had less hp/damage they'd be more punishable.
@@akai_shuichi_x that could work but hog would probably need his old take a breather back so he can be punished his only counter play is anti and discord currently
@@savage3PC Probably, honestly I really dislike Hog's evolution. Instead of being a glass cannon he can vape/hook whenever he wants.
If they gave him 1 or 2 of his old nerfs, he would be less frustrating to play against with a 50% cc reduction:
- He couldn't use cooldowns during his ultimate
- Couldn't move during vape,
- Had a higher hook cooldown
- Couldn't one-shot
Lowly Bronze support here. We need 2 supports on Mauga at all times, because he deciedes to charge 1v5 on low health. In the open. He probably thinks he rolled a Salvador's Sexual Tyranosaurus build on Borderlands 2.
Funny enough the jet black skin make him look like Salvador
Best thing is if the Mauga uses his lifesteal on full health and then, when it’s on CD he then decides to go in 1v5.
Wait that's actually hilarious tho 😂
Been a minute since I heard a bl2 joke
Love the Salvador reference, most fun Borderlands character imo
at this point wouldn't it be easier to just do away with the tank role.
They’re gonna micro buff sojourn ult charge next season guaranteed
For rein in particular, his shield needs an active that makes it take reduced damage, or maybe even no damage, for a short time. His shield is great when shuttling your team from cover to cover, but the moment a team fight breaks out, your shield is gone in 2 seconds and you're reduced to a face tank hammer bot. Being able to actually block something significant like a tank mode bastion is something every tank needs to be able to do if they manage their cooldowns correctly. As it is, the only way rein can counter a high dps ability like tank bastion, soj/sold ult etc is to play hard cover and pray to GabeN his team does too.
They need to let that sojurn 44% win rate and leave it up to the player base to figure out the playstyle.
They are always too quick to let nerfs settle.
The whole reason the win rate drops so dramatically after nerfs was because those characters were playing on easy mode the whole time (Orisa) and people never really learnt how to be good at those characters because they didn't need to be.
I have a suggestion for a tank passive: Reduce HP, reduce Dmg, and to compensate for that the passive will allow for 2 tanks per team
I don’t know anymore. People hate when tanks have too much hp, too much armor, or too much shield. People also hate when tanks die fast. I don’t know what the answer is anymore. People don’t like when the tank is unkillable and they also hate when the tank doesn’t have any big effects like making huge plays. Tank weak = bad, tank neutral = bad, tank strong = bad.
@@D9bi Not sure why the devs said this though there are a lot of ways where their tankiness is turned off like a switch (swap comps and hard countering tank above all others). It definitely should be approached differently.
Almost like having one character that is supposed to be two is out of place in ow
This is why I stopped playing OW2. No one is ever happy playing it. Why play a game where you only get the one fun game every 20 games. I forgot that I used to play games to have fun. Overwatch is not fun because they made it competitive focusedZ
There has never been a moment in overwatch history that the entire population of players was happy that I can remember. There is no right answer.
2 tanks is way more fun for the player and solves most of the tank issues. However it makes 4 other players game worse because of que times. So really the answer is we need more tank players total so we can go back to 6v6
@@demigurlxd5781true tbh I’m tired of hating every decision they make , idc if it’s in 5v5 if somehow they make tank fun again I’ll take it 😩
@7:22 ...i think its a pretty interesting balance idea to add 1 or 2 more passives per role so you can avoid overbuffing some heroes like tracer...its probably a balancing nightmare though so i doubt it...but i can hope for at least 1 more passive per role...like maybe something that buffs dps move speed at lower hp (or increased reload speed?)? or something that lets armor regen like shields do? or maybe let the supports healing split to heal hp AND armor/shield at same time?
hearing them talk about fulfilling rein's hero fantasy by buffing his shield worries me. He's a massive german armored dude with a F#%* you hammer that he swings around when he's not rocket-charging opponents into a wall, and they think his shield is the hero fantasy?
Idk what it is but I hate season 11 iv had no fun outside of dps and I'm not a dps player
that's how I've felt since season 9
Same used to play tank and heals now I pretty much lock dps
It’s all from the dps passive, it was fine when they nerfed it mid season cuz supports were able to actually keep up, now that it’s back up to its release percentage supports are starting to struggle and lord forgive you if your team doesn’t use natural cover, Overwatch seems to be entering a only dps players can have fun era and I fear the other roles will suffer from it (or they just leave support in the mud for 5 seasons who knows)
And im a rein main and I Don't even want more sheild I want him to have a hammer insted of the pool nuddle hes swinging now 😂
@@Dfm25387 What? You kill dps/support in 2-3 hits with hammer. Sounds like skill issue.
Take the stun/interupt mechanic off the hog hook so you can fight back and people will stop being upset about it. I also think tank passive should prevent a tank from being pulled full distance by a hook or jq knife
Wait....actually good hook take?
JQ knife pull on tanks was explicitly changed to ignore the knockback reduction *because* it felt really bad for her to barely pull tanks with the knife. Maybe it could be slightly reduced from normal but overall I feel it's better for her effectiveness to ignore that knockback reduction (and plus, tank is the one role where that sorta CC belongs)
@@DJBaphomet I'm aware they did that but I think it makes more sense for it to be hard to move tanks with it. just my opinion tho. I don't even play tank
@@DJBaphomet I want her to have that CC. She's my fave tank when I do dabble in tanking but maybe other tanks just shouldn't be the target of it?
@@Andrew00279 it is pointless if they only get pulled 2 inches by the knife though.
But I always said that it made no sense that Hog can pull a tank the full distance and not get the tank passive applied to his hook.
I would rather see four or five DPS passives. Sniper - 50% more headshot damage. Sustain - reduces healing by 20%. Assassin - first half of the magazine deals more damage. Stuff like that. And make sure only one affects the target to keep confusion to a minimum.
hmmm...random idea for rein buff - make it so that taking dmg to his shield gives him TEMPORARY shield overheal (like ball or sigma)...that way even if his shield is insta nuked he at least has some bonus to survival
..now if only there were two of them per side..
Love this break down. But can you highlight the text as you read with the mouse cursor? It helps me to follow along! Luv u emong
time to split up dps roles again. give em different passives
I do feel like they should do this with all the categories
Make two support categories, two DPS categories and two tank categories so they get different passives and can be balanced separately
Cuz in no way should Winston and mauga be balanced similarly
@@sebastianrodriguez8992 i agree with this but we should also think about the idea that if it takes this much to balance role passives they should just be removed from the game entirely. the hero cast is so diverse in their kits that role passives are distributed unfairly across the game. every tank, every dps, every support will never get equal value from a role passive as their counterparts.
@@missingeuphoria I think the concept could work tho the devs just ain't the best but they're trying
@@sebastianrodriguez8992 role passives, as they are now and as they have been since ow2 began, feel entirely experimental and with no noticeable affect; or impact the game so much that the rest of the game is held hostage by it(dps passive). adapting and reworking role passives again and again has only added to the power creep in ow2. they have cancelled everything that makes ow2 a sequel except for the things that have caused problems for the game because that's the little bit of identity the new dev team has left to call it their own.
i don't like how long it takes them to implement changes. Possibly having to wait until season 12 for a few balance changes? It always feels like you're playing a bad version of the game and arbitrary deadlines are being set for changes that everyone wants ASAP. I understand they can't patch the game whenever they want because of crossplay, but this is hurting the PC community. They should make it so PC ranked is updated more frequently and let quickplay be bottlenecked by console release schedules
Are we gonna have to try every single number before the devs understand that this isn’t good enough for tanks to be fun and viable in 5v5. Half the tanks should just be moved into the dps role because the only tanks your allowed to play is hog, Orisa, mauga.
sad that when they mentioned the tanks that were doing good, rammatra was no there :(. no dance emote and no decent winrate.
They fucked the tanks with the armour changes and the dps passive. No amount of "talking" can fix that. They made the game for DPS players now, it used to be a support game in the first 8 seasons. It was never about tanks
It was in seasons 1 to 3, do you not remember how strong Zarya and Hog were, how about Ram with infinite ult or those 2 week spells where Doom, Rein and JQ got giga buffed before being nerfed again.
It's been a DPS game since we went to 5v5:
> Notice how all the "good tanks" are legit just beefy DPS characters.
> During Support-dominant seasons the dominant supports were basically DPS with a million escape tools and "I win" buttons.
The DPS passive was a necessary evil to kill both of the above.
Damage numbers need to be dialled back for each role at this point though on top of per hero changes. Tanks would stop blowing up as quickly if they did that.
@bigfudge2031 it's only ever one character being extremely dominant which implies the character is broken not the role. Also when was rein ever gigabuffed I played for a year straight and bro got legit 2 changes until recently(One of which was a nerf)
@@bigfudge2031not to be that guy , I know what ur saying BUT Tanks weren’t strong in season 1-3 bc the devs wanted them to be strong . They were strong as an aftermath of going to 5v5 . They were overtuned bc they didn’t know how to balance them to be in 5v5(they still don’t but not the point lol ) . That’s why tanks haven’t been strong since .
Tanks shouldn’t take the full DPS debuff, because, you know, they’re a TANK
“Man reins a bit of a slog to play, I feel like I just stand around with my shield” WE HEAR YOUR CRIES, MORE SHIELD HEALTH FOR REIN!! “Wait..no-“ JOB COMPLETE! TIME FOR AN IPA!
I love that he still has people in his chat coping that 6v6 is the answer to fix overwatch lmao
I’m a tank main in plat that normally solo ques…. PHARA has ruined my life.
I like watching emongg from time to time, but bro, every season he's like "I'm having fun, but i understand the problem" to the. Being like not even a season later "i was terrible feeling to play tank like 2 seasons ago"
Rein should get shield bash, but a tank version of it.
Tanks should have a dps passive reduction by maybe 5% or something.. idk
@@ducky_7122 I have been begging for debuff resistance for so long, it's like the one thing
Please not another passive or exception to a rule in the game. Its already confusing enough with the various different passives, exceptions to them and inconsistencies between roles, don't add even more.
@@Swyfty_ I agree with this.
then hog just dumps 300 health on himself. with ana grenade 500 ....
How is it possible that i'm able to minimise the youtube app but only on emongg's videos?
Emongg keeps his video swear free Is probably the reason.
if you're talking about picture-in-picture (exiting an app with the video staying in a box), afaik it should work for anything that youtube doesn't count as music. At least, thats how it works on ios
Incoming Orisa, Mauga, and Hog buffs and nothing else.
9:52 honestly in qp silver console holding up shield feels useless. So i don't even bother with chokes. Just flank and charge baby! Lol
I think the biggest problem is low ranks not being able to shoot fucking supports
How hard can it be? Change all CC to take half effect on tanks, Anas sleep already has that effect on tanks 3 vs 6 seconds on tanks vs dps, let the same be for Anas anti-nade, same damage but half the duration you can't be healed, the dps passive down to 10%, zen discord orb which is easier to deal with since you can just LoS, and then it can't be re-applied for 8 seconds, tanks still needs to be punished for mistakes, that is why cc and area of effect still needs to exist, however diminished.
However tanks don't need more damage or shorter cooldowns! They need to feel more tanky, not more damage! Tanky means surviving longer!
I also saw the most stupid take from devs - Future supports will have less mobility, since they don't need to shoot back!
There is a reason the OW2 dev team was the only team on whole Blizzard that didn't recieve any bonus - The game was and is still too bad!
In their world one role needs to be bad in order for another role to be strong - And if they had beta-testers they would have gotten the data that the dps passive of 20% would destroy tanks, then they nerfed it just to buff it back up again - Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results!
No way they're actually going to make tanks even MORE unkillable. What a joke.
They just need to scrap role passives at this point
@ Arron Keller, look maybe YOUR hero fantasy for Rein is holding up his shield but maaaaaaaaaaaaaan it's not most people's hero fantasy for playing Rein.
I have a love hate relationship with tanke as support player. On one hand i agree that tanks needs to be buffed. On the other hand i dont want to encourage more tank players to charge to narnia cause they believe its my ana ass jobb to hookshot myself forward like a widow to bail them out.
They don't need to be buffed, idk where everyone gets the idea that tanks are weak? They FEEL bad because they get the hard focus from the enemy team. We are hitting mega mega MEGA power creep territory. How much can tank be buffed until they are unstoppable? Because I don't think there is a between balanced state. It is either tank is going to get hard focused and die, or hard focused and kill everything. They already got buffed, and now next season is a tank patch too???
Bro they will do all this constant bugs and needs to tank when the answer is 6v6 that way thanks can take control of the map again feel impactful and make moves.
Literally Orisa is unkillable can we please enable crits while fortified since tanks have reduced headshot damage
just go back to 2 tanks, but put them at lower HP than the current role queue, so it's not just shield spam. lower health + passive health regen seems like an ok balance
Idk about you guys, but being stuck down here in the medal ranks makes me think tanks are tanky. Although its probabky just because nobody can shoot anything, even the biggest targets in the game.
tanks are tanky.. its a tank that has like no ammo and is pretty much useless
The problem with tank balance, is tanks do way too much f*cking damage, to also be tanky. Most of the tanks can oneshot combo, or quickly 2 shot someone before supports can react. If they want tanks to be tanky and fill a tank role, they need to nerf their damage and overall solo kill potential, while buffing their ability to make space and control fights. Hog being able to hook more often would be fine if he wasn't out here deleting people. Zarya if fundamentally broken, as she either gets focused and deleted, or she just runs around with max or near max charge and deletes everyone. Zarya needs something like 3 bubbles and dramatically reduced damage compared to current max charge. As for Rein, more shield sounds like the most unfun bs, but Rein has nothing on his Ctrl keybind, and they could give him a damage reduction ability/short speed boost to engage in melee combat and take space. There's also nothing fun about doom pounding you into a wall and killing you with his primary while you are sitting in a stun and can do nothing. Tanks are just poorly designed.
Tanks are literally immortal and devs think tanks need a buff?? wtf are they smoking??
Reduce dps passive for tanks to 10%. Reduce the ult charge you will keep as a tank when counterpicking to 0 and give tanks a little advantage when getting high burst dmg, stun, hack and so on. This advantage could be reduced cooldowns or even ult charge, so they can get value of getting focused to much or hardcountered. This will not solve the rock, paper, scissors but playing tank will be more fun. These changes should be tested before fully implemented, but they should test drastic changes bc the tank role is really fucked up right know.
Thats my standpoint :)
Whick tank does rein even counter? Seems all tanks counter rein.
Correct. Reinhardt has okay matchups and bad ones. Thats it
Who cares which tanks counter each other, that is part of the problem. it seems like all tank players want to do is counter-swap instead of toughing it out or at the very least have a respectful mirror match.
@@bigfudge2031 yes i agree. I'm so anti swap in qp i one trick rein and relish when the enemy tank goes through 5 tanks and we still win. There's always a chance but sometimes it seems there's a whole team of rein counters lol. Disclaimer: Console silver qp
Rein was made for 6v6. I don't think he will ever be good in 5v5
They just need to lower the DPS passive amount, 15% was literally fine
When it was 15% the game went back to supports ruining everything hell no 20% is the hotspot they could make it so tanks are at 15%.
I think it's just that tanks individually should get reduced less
Everyone else should keep 20
@@bruhscoutray Lol
@@bruhscoutrayI think they should just get rid of that shit passive , and just nerf supports tbh
U all still complaining just shows u guys are still Gold
5v5 sucks
Indeed
Per Hero passives should be a very good option and it is a thing in many other hero-based games and mobas. One that comes to mind is League of Legends, where the passive ability is part of the kit and just as important and impactful as the other abilities on the character.
Iv always thought of this since I 1st started Overwatch, its crazy how "innovative" that sounds
Are you kidding me… you want to make tanks more tanking? I am waiting for VALORANT on console and I will switch immediately. I play support and our entire team rolled by an enemy orissa. This is ridiculous
Well they are doing individual balance so I'd assume orisa isn't getting changes because of that
Shoot orisa
this game is done forget it go praise the lord
I agree with Emongg I don’t think the problem is how tanky they are. If anything they are too tanky right now because it feels like a sustain meta now which is the least fun and exciting imo.
Make the support passive a passive for every role with the same amount of time to start health regeneration. Remove the tank and dps passives and armor changes. Then just make tanks have slightly lower health but make them more threatening so they’re more fun to play. That would fix literally every issue everyone has with the game balance right now.
Not quite but it would be a nice start
How about devs admit that Hanzo is not hanzoey enough
There's no power creep in Overwatch! 🎉🤡
Just buff mercy
I'm sorry emongg but this narrative that Rein is "fun" to play against NEEDS TO STOP. Shooting at shields is not fun. Streamers need to STOP LYING about this.
Devs talking up 🐍 oiL
Ow2 is boring asf. Even winning doesn't help.
If it's boring then go play something else. Most ppl just have the issue of the game being infuriating but they still feel the want to play. If you don't like playing it and it bored you then move on. Come back in a month or two
Hello @Emongg Plaguedot here i just found you in your Two channel 😂😂
A tank should be shielded, all tanks could have a passive shield that regens after time but healing does not regenerate the shield