Measurements for MSO: Subs + Mains Measurements
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- This is the final video in taking measurements for use with MSO. This builds on the prior Intro and Sub Only measurement videos. It walks through the required measurements for input into a subs+mains MSO optimization.
NOTE: There are some big differences in measuring subs here vs measuring subs for a subs-only optimization. On previous videos, I stated they were the same, but forgot about the 10 dB difference in volume of the LFE channel. All of that is covered in this video, but was misstated on the earlier videos. Sorry!
Intro Video: • Measurements for MSO: ...
Sub Only Video: • Measurements for MSO: ...
If I turn on the subtitles and want to change it to another language, it doesn't work. Why is that?
Can this be used with the L or R preout ? My x6700 center pre out is not working. Also can you just set the LFE signal level -10 db ? It’s not the same as the life gain level
LR is fine. Plug the subs into R and use L for the acoustic timing reference. It's actually a little faster because it requires fewer changes in most AVRs. Set the LR speakers to "Large" in your AVR / Processor to ensure you aren't impacted by a crossover.
There's really no point in adjusting the LFE signal. You just want the measurements to be 30 dB or more above the noise floor of the room across the frequencies of interest. This can be hard to do at infrasonic frequencies.
Whats wrong with just dropping AVR level by 10db or using MiniDSP to do the same vs swapping the cables?
It’s not about the SPL. It’s about getting a full bandwidth measurement and bypassing the built in LPF on the LFE channel. Some processors or AVRs allow this to be configured. Denon, for example, will let you set it as high as 250 Hz. Other devices don’t have this flexibility.
Using the R or C channel and setting that speaker to “large” works on just about every AVR or processor ever made.
Hi Jeff, the one thing I'm curious about with Subs + Mains measurements is do set sub distance to 0.0 and leave your speaker distances at whatever your room correction had them set at? After running, MSO will give an AVR sub distance adjustment and it seems that would only work correctly in conjuction with original speaker distance. For instance, if everything was set to 0.0 when you measure, it seems MSOs calculation would be off once you set your center (or mains) back to whatever they were. (eg. 7.2 feet). Am I correct with this?
Correct. MSO's results are relative to the measurement conditions. So if MSO says you need 3 ms of delay and the original was 7.2 ms. then the new delay would be 10.2 ms. Does that make sense?
I generally don't recommend doing subs+mains integrations in MSO when using some other automated room correction. It's not that it can't be done. It's that it's a more advanced topic and gets confusing quickly. Additionally, most processors don't have all the capabilities needed to properly implement things. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from doing that at all though. Learning is fun 🙂
Thank you! Great job very informative
When using the C channel for the sub, I assume the actual sub "distance" needs to be brought over to the C channel as well?
Nope. No need to move the delay over.
Hey Jeff
Thank you so much for putting together such a great tutorial! Can't thank you enough for this.
I just had one query for you.
You have mentioned - "Multiple subs on a single channel are measured at the same time and are treated as a single sub"
My setup is as follows:
1. I would be driving 2 subs from 1 LFE out of the AV Prepro [The AV prepro has 2 sub outs. But since I need to add an Auro3d Voice Of God channel, one of those Sub pre-outs gets used up for the VOG channel; thus leaving me with just one SUB pre-out]
2. How I would be doing this is by connecting the remaining SUB pre-out to the one of the inputs of a MiniDSP 2x4HD and deriving 2 outputs for the 2 Subwoofers.
So my question is - In this scenario, do I consider both subs as a single subwoofer during sweeps and measurements? - OR - are they to be regarded as 2 separate Subwoofers while taking measurements?
Many thanks in advance!
Thanks for the question! The short answer is that we need to treat each sub individually from a measurement perspective, and then take the time to properly align and integrate them with one another (using something like REW or MSO depending on your goals, more below).
The long answer below is WHY we need to treat them this way and do some extra work up front. There are also links to my other videos on the two methods I mention to help you get started.
Please keep asking questions as things come up!
Now ... the long answer ...
The important thing to keep in mind is what the AVR or SSP "sees" in this kind of config. The AVR/SSP doesn't know what we're doing with the signal. It only "sees" one channel and therefore, one sub, regardless of how many are actually playing. It could be one, two, or 20 subs.
The problem this creates is that AVR/SSP isn't capable of making sure all of those subs are actually playing well with one another to produce the best possible sound. Unless you are very, very lucky, the subs are going to be fighting each other, rather than helping each other, in some or all of the frequency range.
That fighting vs helping is why we need to align, and optionally EQ, the subs within the miniDSP. When that's done, we end up with a virtual "super sub". The AVR/SSP now sees this single "super sub" and can use its room EQ processes to their fullest extent.
Depending on your goals, you'll want to use either REW or MSO to handle the sub alignment. The short version is if you only have, or care, about a single listening position, use REW. If you care about more than one listening position (like a row or multiple rows of seats), then use MSO.
I've got videos on both methods here on my channel:
REW Method
Watch the first 10 mins or so of the EQ video first. You'll then need to go through the Alignment Tool video, and come back to the EQ video to finish things up.
EQ Proces: ua-cam.com/video/ARztXSmoQbE/v-deo.html
Alignment Tool: ua-cam.com/video/8bwpLfbLiZ4/v-deo.html
MSO Method
ua-cam.com/video/WtMq73BzOIA/v-deo.html
@@jeffmery Wow! That's a really long answer there.
Thank you very much.
I will check the videos that you pointed out. May I request you to create a YT playlist on your channel with all of your videos in the right order? I think it would be really helpful for noobs like me to follow through and understand things more cohesively.
May I share another question with you here?
Where would Room correction systems like Audyssey, etc. factor in now, in the grand scheme of things? Do we run Audyssey *after* all these steps that you speak about here?
@@diymonk7266 Doh! I thought I had put one together for REW, but it was only for MSO. I'll get one out there soon.
You are correct about room correction You would first get your subs squared away as outlined above, then run your room correction. There are always exceptions to this, but this usually provides the best results and is almost always the best place to start.
Hey Jeff, awesome video series. One question: when taking the L+R measurement, should the L/R speakers be time aligned, or just measure them both with the distance setting to zero? I only ask because they are not equidistant from the listening position(I’m calibrating for music in a garage.)
Good question. Yes, if you are optimizing for the main listening position, then the L/R need to be time aligned before integrating the subs. If they are not, you align the subs, and then align the L/R, there is a risk of that alignment breaking or at least negatively impacting the L/R + Subs alignment.
Jeff,
Great series of tutorials!
Thanks a lot!!!
By the way, I just wonder, why do you need subwoofers (4 subs!) when you got such an amazing response from L+R and incredible response from center channel? I know, that there is no top to perfection, and I respect that, but I have two studio monitors for music\work (±85-16000) and basic 5.1 setup with very poor L+R and LR+RR which have the lowers frequency response about 200-14000 and after some calibration I am totally fine with it, since subwoofer do all the work. I know it might sound really stupid, I worked in concert business and works with line arrays, have some studio experience with perfect acoustics treatment and really nice selection of monitoring systems, but I found out that "good enough" is a new "perfect". Other wise I will stuck with upgrading my setup and spending all my time and money on equipment, and I actually don't want to do that =) May be its my point of view because I'm a perfectionist and its better for me to not dive into any stuff and try to stop with "good enough", but we watched movies and few concerts on my setup (Queen at Budapest was a treat!) with my friends and we all were pleased, no matter my "poor" setup.
By the way, my sub can play "ok" from 60hz, and have phase inventor tube tuned for 75hz (I cut this frequency), and I am OK with it.
Your mains are MUCH more cooler than my whole setup and I guessing that you are very pleased with results and you have enough resources to buy, build, setup, tune, finetune this system, even resources to record and share this amazing videos series.
Anyway, I'm happy that you have time to share it. It is so cool when someone who spend a lot of time tuning the system share such amazing insights.
Wish you all the best
(I think in 10 years I will re-read my comment and will get massive cringe over it, but I'm fine with that =) )
What a great comment! Thank you! I couldn't possibly agree with you more about "good enough" is the "new perfect". There's always something out there that is supposedly "better" or the newest best thing. I'm personally at a point where I'm extremely satisfied with the sound quality I have in my room. I will probably continue to fiddle with and fine-tune different things, but that's more because I like to tinker than fixing real problems. I could also see myself swapping things in and out just to experience different brands, sounds, etc. For me the learning experience and hearing the results is what makes me happy :-).
I will also never, ever disrespect anyone for the choices they make in their rooms. The audio world can be very exclusionary with people spending more money looking down on people that didn't spend as much. It's a personal choice, full stop. More expensive does not mean "better". Things like build quality usually do improve up to a point, but after that there is definitely a diminishing return on what you spend. There's just so much to learn as well. I haven't heard most of what's out there. How do I know what a PA speaker sounds like when used in a home theater environment? Plenty of people swear by it. What about the line arrays you mention vs traditional speaker designs? Concentric drivers vs traditional. Again .. personal choice and enjoy what you have!
To answer the question of "why 4 subs" ... I like both movies and music and I try to strike a balance between the two in this room. It is not a purpose built room which makes it quite challenging in some regards. For 2-channel listening, I don't use the subs at all :-). The mains alone are great in my main listening position. That being said, they're not so good for movies on the low end. They're just not built for it. The 4 subs serve two purposes. First, they can actually play the low frequencies (flat to 16 Hz in my room) with usable output. Second, is to get an even bass response across multiple listening positions. I have my mains crossed over at 90 Hz to ensure they play the full slope of the high-pass filter on the crossover. My subs are tuned flat to 200 Hz so they can pick up the full upper end of the low-pass filter. Integration is *very* good!
I have a row of 4 theater seats in my room. With one or two subs, it's impossible to have a flat response at all 4 seating positions. Something always ends up with a large peak or null even if the MLP response looks good. With 4 subs, I can get a very flat response (+/- 3 dB @ 1/6 octave resolution) at all seating positions. I've also been fortunate in that my optimizations in MSO also result in a very linear phase response (that's not always the case and definitely a happy coincidence). This gives Dirac a much easier time integrating the subs with the non-sub channels.
I didn't move any cables around. Instead in my Denon AVR I set my main speakers to small and set the crossover at max (250hz) and sent the 10-200hz sub sweeps to the center channel. I think this accomplishes the same thing as moving cables but I would like to confirm.
Yep, that should work.
Great Video Jeff,
I have been trying to think over the last week how to get a good speaker to sub alignment in REW. But the +10db LFE was causing issues and wasn't giving me real world results.
So I used the Controls tab and brought the subs down -10db. But I knew this was still wrong as the 10db was more evident in the lower bass regions and approaching the Xo regions there wasn't a 10db difference.
My only other solution(haven't tried this yet btw) was perhaps to use JAVA, unplug the left speaker and use to measure sub(Max Xo). Use the right for time alignment. Then go back to FlexASIO to get Center speaker FR. Like you I don't have LPF-LPE control so I think the method you have used is bullet proof and good timing as I was about to ask you on AVS 👍
All the best
Jim
Nice! I wanted something simple and that could be applied nearly universally across as much equipment as possible. I think this hit that nail on the head. As long as you have 7.1 pre-outs, which even modest AVRs have these days, you're good to go.
@@jeffmery Hi Jeff - whilst on the topic of speaker and sub levels - I would appreciate your help:
1. Using the internal test tone generator and the MV at '0' (relative scale) - should one set speaker trims to read 75dB on all channels incl. the sub channel (and assuming that LFE content will be boosted by 10dB by the processor during playback) OR
2. The speakers should be calibrated to 75dB and the sub channel to 85dB.....
Honestly, I am a bit confused about speaker/sub levels, at which stage in the recording/playback chain is the 10 dB boost in LFE implemented, levels of the AVR internal test tones vs reference discs.
Would very much appreciate your views on this and may be a video just on speaker level calibration. Your videos are brilliant..thank you..
@@harshjain3801 If the subs are connected to the LFE channel, then they should automatically be 10 dB louder than the other channels. You shouldn't have to calibrate them separately. Or, to put it another way, if you set the speaker level for one of your base layer speakers to 75 dB, then your subs should automatically measure at 85 dB without changing any settings.
Now, it's likely that there are some discrepancies. The biggest one would be the standing waves (room modes) in the room and the mic position relative to them. If the mic happens to be in a peak or null, then the subs will be louder or softer, even if they are properly configured.
This will open a can of worms, but I prefer gain matching my subs to level matching them. Gain matching is easiest to do with identical subs. You just set the gain control on each one to the same position and you're done. This ensures all subs work the same amount. With level matching, the subs have their gains set so that they measure at the same volume in the MLP. They have equal volume but some are working harder than others. This may be easier if you have mismatched subs. I understand the benefits of both methods, with identical subs, I just prefer to gain match is all.
I don't recall your specific setup offhand. However, generally speaking, the best option is to get the sub channel trim in the AVR set to near the bottom of the range supported by your AVR. I think Denon supports -12 dB and Yamaha -10 dB? So on a Denon AVR, you'd want the sub trim set to -11 or -11.5. On the Yamaha, -9 or -9.5 dB.
You do this by running a one-point calibration just checking levels and see where they are. If the result is too high of a value (number closer to or above zero), turn the volume on your subs UP! This will increase the trim and get closer to the -12 or -10. If the result is too low, then you turn your subs DOWN. You know it's too low when the trim is pegged to the lowest value supported by the AVR. So on a Denon you don't want -12 dB because it could actually be at -15 dB and you'd never know.
Does this help or make things worse?! LOL
@@jeffmeryHi Jeff,
'tis a can of worms......
1. In my specific set up - I am running an older Windows PC that does not support ASIO...so I am sweeping the subs through my mains (switched off, set at a high XO). That should automatically offset the 85dB boost of the LFE channel. Once the subs are aligned, equalised and a house curve implemented, I could go and check levels again - and aim for 75 dB for the speakers and 85 dB for the subs (with low trim levels in AVR and gain knobs turned up - as you have suggested). To align subs to the centre channel, I could switch the Centre output in AVR to the Right channel and sweep - as above....
2. For mains to sub integration using a Mac - one could reduce the input signal to the subs in Mini DSP to get to 75 dB (mains originally set to 75 dB) for the measurement sweeps and then go back in the slider to get to 85 dB for a final level calibration after eq because the cuts would have brought the volume of the subs down somewhat....
Does this make any sense.....
@@harshjain3801 Yep. Makes sense. No need to worry about the offset sweeping the way you are doing it. Just double-check the levels after your calibration (which it sounds like you're already doing). And correct on alignment with the center. Moving connections around can be a pain, but it's a dead-simple work around.
Yes, one could mess with the gains to lower the subs to 75 dB, but that introduces more chance for human error. For me, it's just easer to move 1 cable and disconnect a second for a few mins grabbing sweeps. I've screwed up and left gain settings in my miniDSP and then battled trying to figure out WTF was going on when results were weird. If I accidentally leave cables wrong, it's immediately obvious what the problem is.
As always these are just my own personal preferences to help work around my sometimes distracted brain.
Hi is there a link to the MSO , sub and mains integration video?:)
And then a bug 🐛 I have find in MSO: If the mains is sub Eq out for example start at 100Hz and the sub starts at 10 to 200hz, and the measurements for the mains is starting at 100Hz and not from 10Hz, the MSO will only start by drawing the mains 100 to 20kHz and then only draw the sub 100 to 200Hz.. 🤔
I haven't done that video yet. I previously didn't have the equipment to do it properly without major recabling of things just for the video. I have new equipment now, but still haven't had time to do the video. I apologize for that, but it is on my to-do list.
If the measurements for the mains start at 100 Hz, there's nothing to graph for them below 100 Hz. I.E., there's no data for MSO to display. Measurements on the subs should be "as high as possible"; ideally taken with the subs connected to a full range speaker channel and measured from 10 - 300 Hz. Mains need to be measured at least one full octave below the expected crossover frequency. Crossovers are typically in the 60-100 Hz range. This means the mains need to be measured from 30 Hz up.
You will probably need to temporarily set the mains to "Large" to make sure you can get a full-range sweep of them without the low-pass filter of the crossover affecting the measurements.
Your comment triggered a memory! @Sergejs on sound did a subs+mains video about 6 months ago that I had totally forgotten about. I finally found it (and saved the link!) so i wanted to share it with you here:
ua-cam.com/video/DzRjVmNK9N8/v-deo.html
It's a really well done video. He uses the UMIK-X to get a bunch of measurements in a short time period, but the process is really the same with a standard, single-capsule mic. It just takes longer to get your measurements done.
@@jeffmery when doing subs + mains, is MSO taking the mains output into consideration to better optimize the subs, or is it also creating filters to be applied to the main channels. (which is not something that's typically done with a miniDSP)
@@Alex-iv5pu It's typically implementing filters on the mains as well in order to get a smooth response through the crossover region. You're right it's not often done through miniDSP as the most common use case is for home theater. We're typically using some kind of room correction which will undo any work we've done to manually integrate the speakers.
Hi Jeff, you have a new fan that has been to every single video here. Now, I have a pair of main Goldenear Triton Reference which comes each one with powered amplified subwoofers 1,600 watts with lfe inputs built in. This model manuals is very clear that you set them up as Large speakers and the option of connecting LFE cable from sub preout on avr to the internal lfe input on the main speakers. How do I get LFE signal to calibrate and align lfe responses if manual is already telling me to setup mains as Large speakers? Or what setup you recommend for this speakers? Thanks.... The only way I can think of is turning on the option on AVR that says LFE+Mains. 🤔🤔 I also have 2 extra on each side of room Goldenear Super Subs XXL and love the integration of all 4 powered subwoofers all together
Thank you! I appreciate the kind words! That's quite a setup, but does present some interesting challenges. The main challenge is that the best location for a subwoofer is rarely the same location as the main LR channels. We'll need to make sure we have things set correctly to get the best results.
(I assume the specific model is the Triton One.R but correct me if I'm wrong on that.)
I read the manual and here's what I recommend: Use both the speaker-level and LFE inputs. This will let you properly integrate the subs in the towers with the other subs in your room via MSO or whatever method you elect. Using LFE solves the issue of getting all subs an identical, mono signal.
In the AVR or Processor, I would still set the speakers to "Small" to enable bass management and crossover settings. "Large"/"Small" actually mean "Bass Management On / Off" so they either are/aren't crossed over to the subs.
The reason for going against GoldenEar's recommendation is that we're using the speakers in an advanced config that their instructions don't cover. That manual is for the average Joe, and not an enthusiast with many subs that need to be properly integrated. LFE + Small gets us the best of both worlds. We get properly managed and integrated bass along with smooth crossover to ALL subs and not just the subs in the towers.
Did I cover everything? If there's something I missed, please keep asking questions :-).
One more comment - definitely do NOT use "LFE+Mains". That causes way more problems than it solves. This is especially true with multi-sub setups such as you have.
@@jeffmery Yeyy you are awesome...Thanks so much you know since I bought this mains and the 2 XXL subwoofers from Goldenear some decent amount of $$$$$ I spent almost a year ago my head keeps thinking about it... and now you made me so happy and relieved. I'll keep setting up with MOS, REW and the minidsp and let you know results.. Thanks again my FRIEND
@@frankiejoey Sounds good. Let me know how it turns out for you!
Can you please post the link of sub + main integration video. If you made it 😊
I didn't make one and no longer plan to. That's probably disappointing but there are some real reasons for it. The main reason is that most people are using this with home theater. Outside of very high end processors, the crossover requirements cannot be met to satisfy the requirements of MSO to do what it needs to do. The second reason is that in a home theater, you're going to run room correction after the sub optimization. This is going to set its own crossover and distances that will negate anything you do from an MSO subs+mains perspective.
Sorry to disappoint on this front.
@jeffmery2636 any chance you’d reconsider the sub and mains video? I’m not sure I got everything right, but there’s some interesting tricks running MSO after room correction. I used a MiniDSP to record LCR with the high pass crossover and the MSO -> Audessey -> MSO trick to keep the subwoofer corrections low. Recorded the subs using the LPF by sending sweeps to center but with the speaker unplugged.
I believe everything measures correctly and is flat and time/phase aligned.
I also used a trick where I adjusted all the timings so that the subwoofer is at the furthest distance possible so that I can add back additional delay if needed in the MiniDSP.
Hi Jeff,
Again a super video from you.
Can you already say when the video comes to the integration, I am very excited about it.
But I still have a question because I have a DDRC88A+BM.
Does not it make more sense if after the integration as in my case dirac then still runs over it instead of the center to take the front left speaker? Because Dirac takes as a reference also the front left speaker
The important thing, is that all measurements used as input into MSO use the same acoustic reference. In my room I have 3 positions and 4 subs which means 12 measurements. Those 12 all need to use the same channel as the acoustic reference channel.
The reference channel used by the room correction software doesn't matter. I use Dirac myself and yes, it uses the L main. Other room correction software behaves differently. YPAO, for example, just sweeps each speaker, and doesn't sweep the L main each time as a reference.
I also agree on your approach. Integrate the subs and then pass them to Dirac as a single virtual sub.
@@jeffmery thx for the Answer. Can you tell me when do you make the integration and optimize video for the center and subs in mso? I mean the net step in the process ;-)
@@jeffmery hi Jeff
When comes the next Video?
@@michaelpiper6601 I’m not sure. Work has been crazy for the past few months and isn’t letting up. If the concern is aligning subs with the center channel, search for “sub distance tweak” and use the center instead of the L+R for the process.
@@jeffmery I do hope your work tails off enough for you to have some time to run the the MSO and MiniDSP process for Multi-Subs +Mains.! In your experience did doing the subs + mains produce any better results than subs only?
Thank you for the amazing MSO tutorials, Jeff!
I’ve been reading up to prepare to try to run MSO for the first time in my room. I only have two subs, and will be using a MiniDSP 2x4HD to combine the two. The subs are similar, but slightly different (an HSU VTF-3 Mk2 and a HSU VTF-3 HO), one in the front left corner between my left and center center, and the other in the back right behind where my couch is. I will have the 2x4HD combined sub signals ran into a single channel on a MiniDSP DDRC-88A-BM, where I will then run Dirac across my 5 main channels, as well as my combined subs.
I’m giving you this background just to say, is alignment with the mains still necessary/helpful in this situation, and where in the process would
I need to do it?
My current plan was again to disable everything but my time delays and level adjustments on my subs being applied by the 2x4HD, then take my sub measurements and run MSO. I’ll apply the filters from MSO into the 2x4HD, and then go into the 88A and run the Dirac calibration over everything.
Is this sufficient? Will this process already cover time aligning my subs, or no, and where in the process should I add it in?
Hope that makes sense - thanks for all your help!
That sounds like it should work. MSO will properly align the subs with one another. The result will be a single "virtual" sub that is seen by the 88A-BM. You will then run Dirac to correct the overall room and response.
I highly recommend verifying the post-Dirac results with REW. The 88A-BM does bass management, but doesn't have all the features of DLBC. One of the features of DLBC is ensuring there isn't a phase cancellation at the crossover point of the speaker pairs. You should measure the post-Dirac results (C+Subs and L+R+Subs) and look for a dip at the crossover frequency. If a dip is present in either measurement, you'll need to do the "sub distance tweak" to eliminate it. The REW Alignment Tool makes this easy.
The challenge will be deciding which measurement to optimize. Unless you are very lucky, fixing the L+R will not fix the C and vice-a-versa. You will need to choose one and then live with the response of the other. It's not as bad as it sounds (no pun intended there). The general guidance is to fix C+Subs for mostly home theater use and L+R+Subs for mostly music. I suggest trying both to see which you prefer.
@@jeffmery Sounds good, Jeff! I ran my first MSO sub only optimisation pursuant to your guide earlier this morning. FYI, the measurements I used for that were taken from HDMI 4 (the LFE channel), though I understand once I get into subs+mains, I won’t be able to do it that way.
Anyways, I was so eager to hear what everything sounded like following my Dirac calibration, but my laptop died during the final measurement! I guess MSO really took a lot of power, it was plugged in, but I guess I was using more than it could pull from the wall. 😂
I’m patiently waiting for my laptop to charge enough to redo my calibration, and then on to a sub+center MSO config after I check the crossovers like you said.
Wish me luck - thank you (and everyone else online) for putting these amazing materials together!
Hmm, actually, given the complexity is running MSO again for the center specifically, maybe I’ll just stick with the distance tweak method for now! 😂😂😂
Quick Update: I do have a dip in my center channel response with an 80hz crossover. I tried the sub distance tweak, and while it would get rid of the center channel dip, it created much worse issues with the left channel than I was willing to put up with. Ultimately, I think without the distance tweak is the best I can get it currently.
With all that said, MSO is amazing - truly great results using your earlier tutorial for the sub only optimisation. Seeing it work it’s magic, I definitely want to learn how to use it with my main channel crossovers now…
Measuring via LFE is fine for subs-only. The vast majority of the HT folks using MSO are going to let their room correction software help with the mains integration. We really have no choice as we're not creating and manually entering PEQs for them (well - again - most of us are not).
It's definitely a compromise when choosing where to align the sub (C vs L+R). One thing to verify when you check for which is best for you ... Make sure you're aligning the subs with the *combined* L+R measurement and not just L *or * R. I just wanted to be sure of that because you mentioned "worse issues with the left channel".
Hello Jeff,
You videos seems to be quite interesting on using the MSO. It's seems to be a better option.
May I check whether will it give the data(from MSO) for the center channel on which crossover & how much delay for the center channel has to be input?
Thank you once again for making this video. It's my first time using MSO.
MSO will not determine the correct crossover frequency, but it can be used to figure out the delay at the crossover frequency you have chosen. This is part of a subs-mains integration.
Another option is to use the alignment tool in REW to determine the correct delay to align with the center channel. I have another video on how to use the alignment tool. Just use a measurement of your subs. This is a measurement AFTER you have aligned them with MSO, so it will be a single measurement. The other measurement will be your center channel. The center channel is the first speaker in the tool and the subs would be the second. Then you can figure out the best delay to use for the smoothest integration.
This ^^ should be done after running your room correction software. I would use this with MCACC, YPAO, & Audyssey for sure. I would not use this with Dirac and a full DLBC license. I'm not experienced enough with ARC or some of the others to know if/how this applies to them.
I hope this helps.