This is a wonderfully helpful video. No music, no graphics, no annoying voice - just an intelligent guy explaining the system in terms anyone can understand. Thankyou.
You are an excellent presenter and spokesman for your company - very clear and comprehensive delivery without overwhelming your audience with jargon and complex concepts. And this is from a former technical writer.
That looks a good product. I work for a housing association and we have plenty of properties with heat pumps with cylinders. Quite a lot of them are bungalows with wet rooms. The large cylinders are only used for washing up and washing hands. A terrible waste of energy. This looks like an excellent solution. I'm a plumbing and heating engineer and think we have a long way to go to for heat pumps, whether ground source or air source to work as well or as cheaply as gas boilers. Especially in social housing. This is definitely heading in the right direction.
This is probably just a demo unit to show all the pipes and bits. No telling how the final product will look. Think about it, a glass front will waste heat
Thanks Robert. As Volvo24091 says it is a demo unit with one of the sides replaced with clear perspex to show what's inside. The final product looks just the same with a white panel instead of the clear one. This is our 4th generation product - 20,000 heat batteries have been installed so far.
Fantastic bit of kit, they should look at getting that into the marine industry too, excess heat from the engines stored for hot water onboard ... good to have finally met up with you guys
I "lived aboard" a 42' Mathews cabin cruiser for over a decade through the '90s and solarvoltic wasn't worthwhile back then, we had a solar water heater on the roof and a very insulated hot water tank down in the engine space. it also was plumbed into the engines closed loop cooling system so anytime you had run the main engines you also had hot water. And many American RV buses and motorhomes also do heat recovery from the engine to the potable hot water tank
The one most important question is what does it cost over a conventional tank, their are loads of great energy devices out there but the cost makes them impartible.
From what I can find on the website. The small one is about £1500 + installation! So doesnt look too bad a price. But I don't know how nbig unit would suit most people
We have one I installed myself, it cost the same the best wet hot water tank, our hot water running costs over ther last 6 months averaged out at 80p pw. We are soon to use solar to heat our water, currently we are using cheap overnight energy.
That’s a really neat idea. The ability to store actual heat in a chemical solution where it could then sit on a shelf for a long duration without loosing the stored energy because it is no longer simple heat in a tank, then all at once you can essentially press a button and the energy will change from chemical potential in waiting back into physical heat to be used/enjoyed. It makes perfect sense why this is called a heat battery.
It doesn't store the heat chemically, it stores it as heat. Phase change materials still store heat as heat, so therefore must be insulated in the same way and the lose their heat to insulation losses the same way as hot water does. Phase change material only allows more heat to be stored (as heat) in a smaller area, but there's no chemistry here.
Very nice presentation, along with a very nice product. I have worked in industry over 40 yrs, with equip producing temp as low as -40 thru glass oven operating at 1270 deg. Can you imagine the wasted free energy, my crews have pissed out the window in that time frame.
Heat batteries using something other than water are a good idea for saving space. You can only heat water to 100C, but there are plenty of other materials that will be happy at 500C. There are some interesting designs that just use large masses of sand. The design of this system seems pretty innovative.
Amazing. Real point about Legionella. Still seems like steam engine from light trickle on heated material, then feeding a chemistry battery remains option for house. For electric vehicles has to be applications too. Electricians must know immediately.
That was really interesting, well presented and a clear explanation of an excellent product. I'm an energy assessor and this looks like it could be a game changer in the industry.
Lots and lots of questions asking about controllability of the PCM, for example when you turn a hot tap on..then off after a few seconds….does the reaction stop or does the unit discharge all its heat and then need a “re charge”. Pointedly, although this question keeps getting asked, neither Sunamp or eFixx have responded ( unless I have missed it ) ????
That was really interesting, Its a phase changing heat store, Great We need inovations like this .. But More info would be useful.... what temperature does it melt at ? How hot must your heat pump run? How hot does it make the water ? Whats its life span ( small pipes fir up) ? Whats its cost (& that might be affordable as its only a heat exchanger , salt & vinegar). ? With this the Heat Pump flow needs to be hotter than the melting point, & the melting point hotter than the hot water So here you have 2 "Hotters" , If you have a normal cylinder , the Heat pump only needs to be hotter than the hot water, 1 "Hotter". Getting the heap pump flow as low as possible is best for COP. Thoughts ?
The Sunamp is great, but sadly very few trades know anything about them and there are even less installers in the North of England. Would consider getting one to replace a hot water tank but not cheap as just an upgrade. Like the new channel!
To be fair they're extremely simple, best way to think of it is an indirect hot water tank just made smaller. The only difference is it uses something like candle wax instead of water to hold heat (melts and solidifies - phase change material). Everything else is practically the same.
@@eFIXXENERGY I guess the biggest selling point of these is that they're smaller than cylinders. The issue I have is that the cylinder ones are also sometimes heat pump cylinders anyway. I'd prefer to use a heat pump cylinder, linked in to an air source heat pump. This is also not something I'd do straight away given my aim is to make my house super air tight + then install an MVHR
What a great piece of kit! Assume you can run this from a boiler also at lower temperatures with no issue while you look to start exploring HP & low temp systems?
1.Great to see efixx going into home energy area. 2. How heavy are these? Could they be installed onto a wall like a boiler can? As it's ok being small, but if they have to be ground mounted, that reduces some of the benefits. 3. I think Fully Charged home series video included Sunamp products for a couple of tower blocks in Sunderland. Apparently, one of the benefits was low maintenance costs, but some real world costs/ testing/data would be appreciated.
Weight depends on the size of the heat battery selected. Thermino 300 - our largest unit - is 211 kg . It's actually lighter than the equivalent hot water tank full of water, saving money on reinforcing the airing cupboard where the hot water tank usually would be fitted, as well as providing a much cleaner and tidier installation. Unlike hot water cylinders, there is no mandatory annual maintenance required and no risk of legionella.
@@SunampLtd excuse my ignorance here. Few Questions if I may… if I keep applying energy and/or higher temperatures to the heat battery PCM will it continue to store more usable energy? For example applying 100oC - 200oC? Basically is there a maximum supply temperature? Will/could this degrade the PCM? If you don’t have to worry about space, what’s your main selling point/s please? Thanks for your time.
I have a heat pump installed (in 2010) and am costing a replacement. The Thermino looks great and would definitely offer space saving over the 600 litre unvented tank currently installed. Our water is very hard - how does the Thermino cope with scaling? Also the current tank has two circuits, one for the underfloor heating and one for DHW. Do I need two Thermino units? Great presentation, much appreciated.
I was experementing with this technique some years ago.. Really glad to see one tgis idea made an actual product by someone. I am wondering how you trigger the phase change when you need it.. Also something very interesting you forget to mention is tha the energy is stored individually from the environment .. what i mean is that if you store a hot water in a tank if its freezing cold outside it will loose its heat but this is independent from the environment you can have it in the snow for hours you will still have the heat once you triggered the reaction ... Even better you in a bigger scale you can store heat on summer and just trigger it months later to have heat on winter !! Well done guys
How did your experiments go? And do you know how they make their phase change material? I'd be very interested to try making one DIY style! I had thought about beeswax for storing heat from a wood stove.... I'd love to hear more about DIY projects using this principle! Any links much appreciated!
It’s not magic - you need heat to change the phase of the material in the first place. It can’t magically store it for months. It will change phase back as heat escapes and the temperature falls below the phase change point. That’s how it heats the cold water because the cold water triggers that phase change. If you have a heat pump you would need to add heat back in because releasing all that heat without cold water to absorb it would likely damage the unit. It’s efficient because it doesn’t require a lot of energy to maintain it above the phase change point.
@@justinsenryu7308 yes it can store energy for months !! If the phase its not triggered.. You can experiment pretty easy .. you can Diy the material pretty easy mix vinegar and baking soda at the right ratio and the boil it until vinegar ecvaporate.. you can find diy steps on youtube the unofficial name is Hot ice.. You can do it for sure you just need to find a smart way to trigger the solutions back to crystals when you need heat.. its a bit difficult cz sometimes its triggering by itself..
You mention a lower temp requirement since there is no risk of legionella since the water isn't stored, but it looks like the minimum input temp requirement is 65c/149f which is still quite hot as far as air to water heat pumps are concerned. Is that correct?
Looking forward to seeing more content on this channel !! I have seen these down at the National Self Build & Renovation Centre in Swindon (very much worth a visit BTW) Fascinating concept, but I REALLY would like to see some real-world data on this sort of stuff. I won't be short on space, so I am likely to go with a cylinder, but I would consider this if I saw some real end-user experience and data. As it stands, I would not have the confidence to put one of these in.
Good presentation. I have been looking at these for a while, thinking this could be an ideal solution to replace my gas boiler. Few questions I've had: 1) Could they replace my boiler for the central heating as well as heat my hot water? 2) Could I heat overnight from the grid on cheap energy as well as using my solar panels? 3) How cost efficient are they to run compared to a gas/electric boiler? 4) If I heated it up at night on cheap rate electricity could it heat my home all day? (obviously depends on size of house, how cold etc, but looking for some averages).
Imagine it as an electric hot water tank, just made smaller. The energy savings lie where you use a heat pump for the heat over the internal element. It's not really made to store enough heat to warm your entire home, more to buffer the requirements you have for heat. It would work alongside a heat pump or boiler (typically where you have large peak hot water demands), not ideal to replace them entirely.
In answer to your first question, yes - and our range for domestic space heating will be launched this year. The asnwer to your second question is also yes. In the Thermino ePV model, the solar power diverter can have a boost setting to allow the unit to charge overnight on a cheap tariff in addition to the PV demand.
Thank God they're about £2000. I'm just installing a Gledhill 200L tank which has cost me around £600 including pipes and fittings. Having said that, I'd still need a £5000 heat pump as well to make the Sunamp wor, unless I just ran it from the immersion heater. What size is the the immersion heater you can fit?
Good video with great & clear explanation. I’ve purchased the smallest version - the 70e & managed to get it into the loft of our one bedroom top floor flat. We are on the Octopus Agile tariff which is working out about 45% cheaper than Economy 7 but atm I’m scheduling the charging of the battery manually using the Smart Life App. I would like to automate this process with something like the IFTTT but my smart switch doesn’t seem to be compatible. Any recommendations how to do this?
What is the temperature, where the phase change happens? Does this fit to all kind of Heatpumps? Or is the Salt-Vinegar mixture actually adjusted to your individual system at home?
Our Thermino range of heat batteries for domestic hot water contains high performance Plentigrade P58 phase change material. the phase change happens at 58degC. We currently have models compatible with Samsung models (AE050RXYDEG/EU + MIM-E03CN; AE080RXYDEG/EU + MIM-E03CN; AE120RXYDEG/EU + MIM-E03CN); Daikin models (ERGA04DVA + EHBH04D6V; ERGA06DVA + EHBH08D6V; ERGA08DVA + EHBH08D6V) and Vaillant Arotherm Plus. You can view the full range here sunamp.com/thermino-thermal-storage-for-domestic-hot-water/
I would see that in Switzerland especially in 2nd houses (chalet) where you have a seperate system to do HW with a boiler doing 20 cycle of 20 to 75deg during the year for nothing. When you only need a pcm pluged to the main heater with the temperature around 50 deg.
I’m about to get UniQ HW 6 +i fitted in the next couple of weeks. Any feed back would be amazing it’s still not too late for me to cancel. Pro’s & Cons Thnaks
I would see this product as combo with a less complex heat pump. With this product you can simplify the HP, you can have a mono temperature heat pump. No need of special components for hight temperature heat (two speed compressor, added three way valves etc).
Is it possible to use these sunamps for hot water and supplying heat to your radiators? Am I missing something obvious? In my mind the unit is just a source of heat so it could have 2 separate feeds going in to it to heat both your hot water and run your radiators? Other questions off the back of what I have just said are: 1. how long would it take to charge up just using cheap off peak electric. 2. How long would it take to deplete it’s heat when it’s used for radiators. 3. Wouldn’t it be possible to avoid having a heat pump if you charged the sunamp with overnight cheap electricity - also charged up a solar PV battery at same time - then used the PV and or the PV battery later in the day to recharge the sunamp during peak time but using the free electric from your PV or the off peak electric stored in the PV battery? Isn’t this a sensible doable solution that avoids heat pumps that seem very expensive. Yes you have the expense of fitting PV and buying a battery. The only down side I can find (if the sunamp can be used in the way I describe) is that some people may want a heat pump to give them a cooling capability if we see those 40 degree days again. I have PV already and it pays me back around £300 per year from F.I.T and obviously it saves me more by supplying me with electricity during daylight hours so my question is why spend money on a heat pump when a solar PV battery might be a better money saver IF….a sunamp is capable of providing central heating and hot water? I welcome being educated by anyone who knows the capabilities of the sunamps.
We have an older version, the Uniq, not the Thermino, but I imagine the principle is the same. Interesting to see it explained properly at last, rather than just the 'it works like a hand warmer' I got from the Fischer Future heat fitters. I'm still not quite sure though how it works with only cold water coming through it, as it is our only source of hot water, no immersion heater tank, so does it just use electricity to turn the pcm back to it's liquid form, ready for the next time water is needed heating?
I enjoyed the video very much thank you. You mention with its 'energy efficiency' (5.10 time line) but you don't mention how efficient it is? Ideally it would be good to know how efficient is it compared to a normal domestic hot water.
It depends what's meant by efficient really, you're never going to get more heat out of this than you put in so it boils down (pardon the pun) to the insulation really.
@@russellthomas9391 No, the point is this small box would hold a similar amount or energy as a large cylinder of water as it is using a principal of heat of fusion - when a material changes sate is can absorb masses amounts of energy and not increase in temperature. Just need to pick the material whose phase change temperature matched the temperature output you need.
@@eFIXXENERGY What "efficiency" means to just about everyone who has even a rudimentary knowledge of physics and mechanical systems is how much energy is converted through the device and how much is lost. The conventional hot water heater burns gas or electrically heats an element to heat the water, this unit primarily uses heat from an outside source and a direct electrical element as a booster. Not exactly apples to apples. So how good is the material and housing at retaining heat when idle and how much heat is is absorbed from the heat pump comparing the pump side inlet/outlet temperatures to a heat exchanger in a tank of water? Simple questions that would be very easily measurable and answered. This system looks as if it would pair well with a solar hot water system. If the water was mixed with glycol and circulated in a closed loop like the heat pump allowing the solar hot water system to operate in sub freezing temperatures. Excellent concept, hope it's successful in longevity and competitive in costs.
Very informative. Can you tell me if there are any benefits to installing a Sunamp if you don't have solar panels or a heat exchanger, but instead use mains electricity?
I'm always suspicious of new products, but this sounds a viable option to gas. However what is the life expectancy of this product and does it need regular servicing?
Clever stuff! 😎👌 So it's a bit like pumping water through a grid of pipes and heat exchangers set in the chemical? Or like a storage heater stores its heat?... Salt & vinegar for your chips by the bucket full if it leaks lol.
That's exactly right, it's essentially a storage heater with the added bonus that the phase change material makes it super effective as it can store more heat than water, which makes the unit smaller than a tank. 👍
At scale it's even more advantageous for storing heat on heat networks as unlike a buffer tank, all the heat comes of at the same temperature rather than cooling as heat is taken off.
The big question for me is flow rates, as in litres per minute pass through at 60 degrees no good if it's like an undersized combi boiler having to slow the tap down to get nice hot water!
Hi, quick question. The data sheets state a 25l/min max draw off at 55 degC. If for argument sake I draw off at this rate this will give me 12 mins of 55 degC water but after this, does the temperature just degrade to a lower value? I know in reality a shower will be mixed down so this isn't a real life scenario but wanted to understand how it works. Also, from a reheat prespective how much energy is required to re-energise the phase change material? For a 300 L tank with reheat of 2hrs from 10-60 degC is 8.8kw (4.4kwh of direct electricity) what is the equivalent here? if my maths is out let me know but in priciple what is the comparison? If it can continually produce low grade heat after the initial discharge then this is very good; just thinking about a very busy house if people are having loads of showers if guests are around Thanks
A key question is in how the stored energy is released? Is it released all at once or can it be released in fractions? With the hand warmer example, all of the stored energy is released at once. It takes time to cool down, but the whole lot of sodium acetate is crystallised in one go. It's not like a battery where I can draw off just the energy I require.
@@PerhapsNoodle They state that the phase change material is sodium acetate, see 4:40 onwards. He describes the material as comprising of salt and vinegar, which is not correct, but that's probably just misspoken. Sodium hydroxide and vinegar would form sodium acetate.
Interesting. Like others on UA-cam, I'm curious about residential cost and installation procedure. I'm also state side, and there don't appear to be any distribution channels for us.
What is the flow rate you can achieve with these, the sun amp needs to heat the water to use, can you fill a bath or run a shower whilst the kitchen is being used?
First how hot does it get so how much energy does it store and will it heat up the water really instantly. Second when lets say the 300 liter capacity is spent, how long will it take until it is operational again to heat up the same amount?
Great idea but leaves me with two questions, firstly how do you trigger the crystallisation process within the unit and secondly once triggered how do you control it and prevent all the solution from crystallising at once and hence expending all the energy in one go.
As I understand they are not using up super saturated liquid (salt water) like the hand warmers do.They use paraffin wax. So it's not really a great example to use the hand warmer as a comparison. But paraffin wax holds twice as many joules per kilogram of heat vs water. They have simply designed a container for melted paraffin wax that is insulated like a hot water tank, and then they run exchangers through the paraffin to extract the heat into water as demand requires. If you leave the thermino for months without input heat the wax will eventually lose its heat and solidify, unlike a hand warmer.
The units are filled with a phase change material so arrive on site fully filled. This does make the units quite heavy compared to empty hot water cylinders.
What is the melting/freezing point of your phase change material? I want to make a coffee cup that absorbs the "too hot to drink" energy but gives it back (phase change temp) to flatten the temp drop curve to lengthen the optimal drinking temp time? Brilliant right?
Interesting. The phase change material used in the Thermino product range melts/freezes at 58°C. Sunamp has phase change materials across a widen range of temperatures for different applications, for example, -30°C for refrigeration, 5°C for cooling such as cold chain storage, 58°C for domestic hot water and space heating and 118°C for high temperature >80°C hot water applications such as sterilisation
Providing it works. Really the most important question is does it require a service and how long will it last. How hot can you get the water. How many gallons of hot water a minute will it provide.
This would depend on the heat battery size, our nominal hot water rating for our heat batteries are:, Thermino 70 - 1.59gpm Thermino 150 - 3.96gpm Thermino 210 - 5.28gpm Thermino 300 - 6.6gpm
Can this be added to a thankless water heater system? I have a gas tank less in my house. I'll be adding PV on the roof and this seems like a cost effective way to store energy
When the system fails, and it will. I can imagine the cost for someone to come out and fix it right the first time will be astronomical. It reminds me of an old Homart stainless steel porcelain lined gas furnace in a house I used to own, sure it wasn't that efficient but it chugged away every year for 50 years and it still in the house. My Sister had a new high efficiency model and had a guy out every year to fix the damn thing. Technology is great just make sure its dependable!
Totally agree, I was just reading through the comments looking for something like this. Obviously it will be beneficial for some applications, but you almost have to re-skill an entire industry. There may be a reason the old 'hot water cylinder' has been around for so long. That said, a very interesting product, and I will research it some more before committing to replace my vented cylinder with an unvented unit.
Its standby power is 7W...it's like 2 LED bulbs switched on, what does it do when standing by, why 7W for standby? For the "e" models (mains electricity only models), does it need to use the full power for hours each day, or only need the power at the moment when the hot water taps are switched on?
How many inputs does one of these have? Could I connect an oil boiler, boiler stove and solar hot water together? It looks like an interesting idea that would be worth further research. Thanks
There aren't many materials with a higher specific heat than water, and those are phase change materials. But even heat stored in phase change medium is subject to the exact same thermal losses - you don't own the heat - you only borrow it. If you don't use it, it goes away the same as if it was stored as hot water.
Nice product, but from what I've researched, the PCM melts at 58C, for domestic hot water applications. If thats correct, then the battery won't charge off a standalone, low temperature, air-to-water heat pump. You'd need a high temp heat pump or a supplemental immersion heat source. Where's the operational cost benefit in that?
Excellent video and very clear description, thank you. You mention using the heat battery for a shower or to wash up... could it be used to replace a gas combi boiler for central heating, i.e. hot-water radiators? Could it supply enough hot water to heat to run the central heating for 2-3 hours in the evening and morning? Thank you.
love when they tout new devices but never give price nor comparisons to reg heat pump hybrid units or yopu can only get price from high pressure salesperson
How does it control the crystallisation process? If the design is similar to heat pads, once crystallisation starts, it can't be stopped. In which case, you would need to use all of the energy that it is storing immediately, else it would go to waste.
Traditional heater used 4-5 times more energy, so I don't see how this would increase the efficiency. Heat pumps are efficient at low temperatures (under 50). At what temperature this phase change material works?
are there any technical documents I can look at, talking about the specific energy capacity of these units, thermal efficiency, and time to heat loss, as well as some at least some rough cost numbers so that $/BTU stored could be compared? Has there been any research into solar water heating vs. pure PV as the energy source? I could see this being an interesting idea for an off-grid house I'm designing, as an alternative to multi-thousand gallon heavily insulated water or glycol tank as a thermal battery. Thanks!
It does not make that much sense regarding the discharging of heat, but I can see this technology potential with integrated preheater "temperature ranges for pcm is not that high" in commercial hot water application, iam conducting my graduation research in this matter, Would appreciate any feedback.
so this is kind of like a combi boiler (instantaneous hot water, not stored) but instead of gas its using stored energy which can come from either heat pump or electric? How long can it hold the heat? Eg could you heat up with off peak overnight electric and use through the following day? And can this run heating as well as hot water, or mainly for hot water only?
I have an aging gas boiler that requires changing. The replacement cost is not cheap and so are you suggesting that this unit replaces the existing tank as well! Heat exchangers are not cheap either, and until prices are much lower, for me, are not an option. An indication of what it all might cost is, unfortunately, missing from this otherwise clear description of how the unit functions.
You made it sound so simple but actually there are issues with these. I looked at buying one (the largest they do), they are not cheap and as someone already has mentioned finding an installer is like finding a plumber who actually turns up.. you can’t. They also have a really bad issue in that they don’t recharge once they fall bellow a percentage of usable heat. They will leave you without hot water and god forbid you use these for central heating and hot water as they suggest you can, they will leave you cold. They do have a get out of jail feature though.. Sunamp say buy two! One for a backup. This then makes these so expensive and take up so much room what’s the point? Also you can’t install outside of the home making these pretty useless if you live in a house with not much room. Take my advice and don’t get rid of your water tank. There’s plenty of other ways of filling that with cheaper energy if you have solar or use the grid over night using an EV tariff.
Do you have any links to the sources that describe the problem you outline. What do you mean they don’t recharge, what stops this and what is the percentage you refer to?
@@jimporter I don't have sources and I'm not Lee, but I was expecting more information on this as well. Your hand warmer requires you to boil it 15 minutes. But today was kind of cloudy and it could only boil 4 minutes. Still stays solid, no phase change here. So basically the 4 minutes of heat are wasted and this product is still waiting to "recharge" (make the phase change that absorbs energy) before being able to provide (make the phase change that delivers energy). I would expect issues like this.
The only difference this has to a water tank in practicality is size. You'll get cold water regardless of using this or a water tank if you don't put enough heat in. There is no wasted heat. All energy you put into this will come back out, it doesn't require a set amount of input before it starts working.
Where has it been demonstrated to perform for a household. Can it be installed by DIY enthusiast - that would encourage the manufacturer to increase sales and provide feedback to further popularise the product.
SUNAMP
👉Check Price & Availability tidd.ly/3XGojFs
This is a wonderfully helpful video. No music, no graphics, no annoying voice - just an intelligent guy explaining the system in terms anyone can understand. Thankyou.
You are an excellent presenter and spokesman for your company - very clear and comprehensive delivery without overwhelming your audience with jargon and complex concepts. And this is from a former technical writer.
That looks a good product. I work for a housing association and we have plenty of properties with heat pumps with cylinders. Quite a lot of them are bungalows with wet rooms. The large cylinders are only used for washing up and washing hands. A terrible waste of energy. This looks like an excellent solution. I'm a plumbing and heating engineer and think we have a long way to go to for heat pumps, whether ground source or air source to work as well or as cheaply as gas boilers. Especially in social housing. This is definitely heading in the right direction.
I do like the glass front showing off all the pipes inside. It’s like a piece of artwork. Absolutely amazing tech. Thank you for sharing this.
This is probably just a demo unit to show all the pipes and bits. No telling how the final product will look. Think about it, a glass front will waste heat
@@volvo24091 you’re probably right, but it does make it into a nice art piece for your kitchen.
Thanks Robert. As Volvo24091 says it is a demo unit with one of the sides replaced with clear perspex to show what's inside. The final product looks just the same with a white panel instead of the clear one. This is our 4th generation product - 20,000 heat batteries have been installed so far.
@@SunampLtd it still looks better with clear acrylic though.
Fantastic bit of kit, they should look at getting that into the marine industry too, excess heat from the engines stored for hot water onboard ... good to have finally met up with you guys
Great idea bud, such a pleasure to meet you in person at last. 😊
The car industry. More than 50% ends up as waste heat
Well, not just marine. I could see a small(er) version be a good option for campervan heating.
@@ByteBitten my thoughts exactly
I "lived aboard" a 42' Mathews cabin cruiser for over a decade through the '90s and solarvoltic wasn't worthwhile back then, we had a solar water heater on the roof and a very insulated hot water tank down in the engine space. it also was plumbed into the engines closed loop cooling system so anytime you had run the main engines you also had hot water.
And many American RV buses and motorhomes also do heat recovery from the engine to the potable hot water tank
The one most important question is what does it cost over a conventional tank, their are loads of great energy devices out there but the cost makes them impartible.
From what I can find on the website. The small one is about £1500 + installation! So doesnt look too bad a price. But I don't know how nbig unit would suit most people
Haa but cost a solar tank , thats a tank with upto 3 inputs plus immersion heater
We have one I installed myself, it cost the same the best wet hot water tank, our hot water running costs over ther last 6 months averaged out at 80p pw. We are soon to use solar to heat our water, currently we are using cheap overnight energy.
How long it lasts is also pretty important.
@@nitelite78 No coment seems to be the answer to that one.
That’s a really neat idea.
The ability to store actual heat in a chemical solution where it could then sit on a shelf for a long duration without loosing the stored energy because it is no longer simple heat in a tank, then all at once you can essentially press a button and the energy will change from chemical potential in waiting back into physical heat to be used/enjoyed.
It makes perfect sense why this is called a heat battery.
It doesn't store the heat chemically, it stores it as heat. Phase change materials still store heat as heat, so therefore must be insulated in the same way and the lose their heat to insulation losses the same way as hot water does. Phase change material only allows more heat to be stored (as heat) in a smaller area, but there's no chemistry here.
Very nice presentation, along with a very nice product. I have worked in industry over 40 yrs, with equip producing temp as low as -40
thru glass oven operating at 1270 deg. Can you imagine the wasted free energy, my crews have pissed out the window in that time frame.
Would only take this over a traditional storage if it comes with the same showroom front plexiglas, that storage looks cool 💪
Heat batteries using something other than water are a good idea for saving space. You can only heat water to 100C, but there are plenty of other materials that will be happy at 500C. There are some interesting designs that just use large masses of sand.
The design of this system seems pretty innovative.
Amazing. Real point about Legionella. Still seems like steam engine from light trickle on heated material, then feeding a chemistry battery remains option for house. For electric vehicles has to be applications too. Electricians must know immediately.
That was really interesting, well presented and a clear explanation of an excellent product. I'm an energy assessor and this looks like it could be a game changer in the industry.
Lots and lots of questions asking about controllability of the PCM, for example when you turn a hot tap on..then off after a few seconds….does the reaction stop or does the unit discharge all its heat and then need a “re charge”. Pointedly, although this question keeps getting asked, neither Sunamp or eFixx have responded ( unless I have missed it ) ????
I'd like to know how many BTU's (or equivalent) are stored in the various sizes. That's really the only way to know if it will perform as needed.
Absolutely brilliant!
That was really interesting, Its a phase changing heat store, Great We need inovations like this .. But More info would be useful.... what temperature does it melt at ? How hot must your heat pump run? How hot does it make the water ? Whats its life span ( small pipes fir up) ? Whats its cost (& that might be affordable as its only a heat exchanger , salt & vinegar). ?
With this the Heat Pump flow needs to be hotter than the melting point, & the melting point hotter than the hot water So here you have 2 "Hotters" , If you have a normal cylinder , the Heat pump only needs to be hotter than the hot water, 1 "Hotter". Getting the heap pump flow as low as possible is best for COP. Thoughts ?
Fascinating. Once the pcm reaction starts, can it be stopped? Or all the hot water has to be consumed at one go?
That looks like a great bit of technology.
I love it! 😊
The Sunamp is great, but sadly very few trades know anything about them and there are even less installers in the North of England. Would consider getting one to replace a hot water tank but not cheap as just an upgrade. Like the new channel!
Yeah, it was brand new to us as well. Thanks for coming along for the journey. 😊
To be fair they're extremely simple, best way to think of it is an indirect hot water tank just made smaller. The only difference is it uses something like candle wax instead of water to hold heat (melts and solidifies - phase change material). Everything else is practically the same.
@@eFIXXENERGY I guess the biggest selling point of these is that they're smaller than cylinders. The issue I have is that the cylinder ones are also sometimes heat pump cylinders anyway.
I'd prefer to use a heat pump cylinder, linked in to an air source heat pump. This is also not something I'd do straight away given my aim is to make my house super air tight + then install an MVHR
What a great piece of kit! Assume you can run this from a boiler also at lower temperatures with no issue while you look to start exploring HP & low temp systems?
Yes works with all types of heating systems.
Really frustrating to me that this simple obvious “transition” question isn’t answered clearly on their website.
1.Great to see efixx going into home energy area.
2. How heavy are these? Could they be installed onto a wall like a boiler can? As it's ok being small, but if they have to be ground mounted, that reduces some of the benefits.
3. I think Fully Charged home series video included Sunamp products for a couple of tower blocks in Sunderland. Apparently, one of the benefits was low maintenance costs, but some real world costs/ testing/data would be appreciated.
We'll see if we can get some technical answers from Sunamp! 😊
I fit these regularly they weigh around 120kg and cannot be fitted on to a wall they rarely go wrong how ever they can be expensive to run
@@rhysspencer9232 expensive to run ? what do you mean ??
Weight depends on the size of the heat battery selected. Thermino 300 - our largest unit - is 211 kg . It's actually lighter than the equivalent hot water tank full of water, saving money on reinforcing the airing cupboard where the hot water tank usually would be fitted, as well as providing a much cleaner and tidier installation. Unlike hot water cylinders, there is no mandatory annual maintenance required and no risk of legionella.
@@SunampLtd excuse my ignorance here. Few Questions if I may… if I keep applying energy and/or higher temperatures to the heat battery PCM will it continue to store more usable energy? For example applying 100oC - 200oC? Basically is there a maximum supply temperature? Will/could this degrade the PCM? If you don’t have to worry about space, what’s your main selling point/s please? Thanks for your time.
We’ve installed a few, great piece of kit
Good to know, thanks for commenting!
How is the amount of heat on demand controlled? When the hand warmers stop heating and need to recharge how do you vet heat while recharging?
I have a heat pump installed (in 2010) and am costing a replacement. The Thermino looks great and would definitely offer space saving over the 600 litre unvented tank currently installed. Our water is very hard - how does the Thermino cope with scaling? Also the current tank has two circuits, one for the underfloor heating and one for DHW. Do I need two Thermino units? Great presentation, much appreciated.
Great explanation
I was experementing with this technique some years ago.. Really glad to see one tgis idea made an actual product by someone. I am wondering how you trigger the phase change when you need it.. Also something very interesting you forget to mention is tha the energy is stored individually from the environment .. what i mean is that if you store a hot water in a tank if its freezing cold outside it will loose its heat but this is independent from the environment you can have it in the snow for hours you will still have the heat once you triggered the reaction ... Even better you in a bigger scale you can store heat on summer and just trigger it months later to have heat on winter !! Well done guys
How did your experiments go? And do you know how they make their phase change material? I'd be very interested to try making one DIY style! I had thought about beeswax for storing heat from a wood stove.... I'd love to hear more about DIY projects using this principle! Any links much appreciated!
It’s not magic - you need heat to change the phase of the material in the first place. It can’t magically store it for months. It will change phase back as heat escapes and the temperature falls below the phase change point. That’s how it heats the cold water because the cold water triggers that phase change. If you have a heat pump you would need to add heat back in because releasing all that heat without cold water to absorb it would likely damage the unit. It’s efficient because it doesn’t require a lot of energy to maintain it above the phase change point.
@@mondotv4216 Yes, I understand that. Do you know the answers to my questions above? I would be very interested to hear if you do!
@@justinsenryu7308 yes it can store energy for months !! If the phase its not triggered.. You can experiment pretty easy .. you can Diy the material pretty easy mix vinegar and baking soda at the right ratio and the boil it until vinegar ecvaporate.. you can find diy steps on youtube the unofficial name is Hot ice.. You can do it for sure you just need to find a smart way to trigger the solutions back to crystals when you need heat.. its a bit difficult cz sometimes its triggering by itself..
@@alternativeenergychannel2289 Thanks! Can you explain your own system of triggering?
You mention a lower temp requirement since there is no risk of legionella since the water isn't stored, but it looks like the minimum input temp requirement is 65c/149f which is still quite hot as far as air to water heat pumps are concerned. Is that correct?
Looking forward to seeing more content on this channel !!
I have seen these down at the National Self Build & Renovation Centre in Swindon (very much worth a visit BTW)
Fascinating concept, but I REALLY would like to see some real-world data on this sort of stuff. I won't be short on space, so I am likely to go with a cylinder, but I would consider this if I saw some real end-user experience and data. As it stands, I would not have the confidence to put one of these in.
Fair points, stay tuned for future content!
There have been large trials with local authority housing in Scotland. The reports are on the Sunamp website.
Good presentation. I have been looking at these for a while, thinking this could be an ideal solution to replace my gas boiler. Few questions I've had:
1) Could they replace my boiler for the central heating as well as heat my hot water?
2) Could I heat overnight from the grid on cheap energy as well as using my solar panels?
3) How cost efficient are they to run compared to a gas/electric boiler?
4) If I heated it up at night on cheap rate electricity could it heat my home all day? (obviously depends on size of house, how cold etc, but looking for some averages).
Imagine it as an electric hot water tank, just made smaller. The energy savings lie where you use a heat pump for the heat over the internal element.
It's not really made to store enough heat to warm your entire home, more to buffer the requirements you have for heat. It would work alongside a heat pump or boiler (typically where you have large peak hot water demands), not ideal to replace them entirely.
In answer to your first question, yes - and our range for domestic space heating will be launched this year. The asnwer to your second question is also yes. In the Thermino ePV model, the solar power diverter can have a boost setting to allow the unit to charge overnight on a cheap tariff in addition to the PV demand.
Ok this is extremely interesting. I'm a plumber and this seems to be a game changer
Thank God they're about £2000. I'm just installing a Gledhill 200L tank which has cost me around £600 including pipes and fittings. Having said that, I'd still need a £5000 heat pump as well to make the Sunamp wor, unless I just ran it from the immersion heater. What size is the the immersion heater you can fit?
Good video with great & clear explanation. I’ve purchased the smallest version - the 70e & managed to get it into the loft of our one bedroom top floor flat. We are on the Octopus Agile tariff which is working out about 45% cheaper than Economy 7 but atm I’m scheduling the charging of the battery manually using the Smart Life App. I would like to automate this process with something like the IFTTT but my smart switch doesn’t seem to be compatible. Any recommendations how to do this?
What is the temperature, where the phase change happens? Does this fit to all kind of Heatpumps? Or is the Salt-Vinegar mixture actually adjusted to your individual system at home?
Iirc residential is 58C by default but they can tweak the phase change point up or down. Industrial usage is 90C for instance.
Our Thermino range of heat batteries for domestic hot water contains high performance Plentigrade P58 phase change material. the phase change happens at 58degC. We currently have models compatible with Samsung models (AE050RXYDEG/EU + MIM-E03CN;
AE080RXYDEG/EU + MIM-E03CN; AE120RXYDEG/EU + MIM-E03CN); Daikin models (ERGA04DVA + EHBH04D6V; ERGA06DVA + EHBH08D6V; ERGA08DVA + EHBH08D6V) and Vaillant Arotherm Plus. You can view the full range here sunamp.com/thermino-thermal-storage-for-domestic-hot-water/
How long until this system wears out? What is the max temperature it can work at ? how much heat loss in standby mode compared to a tank?
Might be a silly question but can you feed cold water into this to make it hot ?
I would see that in Switzerland especially in 2nd houses (chalet) where you have a seperate system to do HW with a boiler doing 20 cycle of 20 to 75deg during the year for nothing. When you only need a pcm pluged to the main heater with the temperature around 50 deg.
What is the minimum injection temperature from a heat source to charge the matterial. Do you manufacture a sea container sized heat bank.?
Great stuff. Have you looked at its compatibility with a thermodynamic heating panel system?
What about if you have poor water pressure? Still need pumps?
I’m about to get UniQ HW 6 +i fitted in the next couple of weeks. Any feed back would be amazing it’s still not too late for me to cancel. Pro’s & Cons Thnaks
so, what volume of hot water is available from this?
Enough to fill a bath for example?
Is there any studies that actually show if there are any savings in electricity with the Sun amp water heater.
Can you tell me more about the pressure relief valve?
I would see this product as combo with a less complex heat pump.
With this product you can simplify the HP, you can have a mono temperature heat pump. No need of special components for hight temperature heat (two speed compressor, added three way valves etc).
Is it possible to use these sunamps for hot water and supplying heat to your radiators? Am I missing something obvious? In my mind the unit is just a source of heat so it could have 2 separate feeds going in to it to heat both your hot water and run your radiators? Other questions off the back of what I have just said are: 1. how long would it take to charge up just using cheap off peak electric. 2. How long would it take to deplete it’s heat when it’s used for radiators. 3. Wouldn’t it be possible to avoid having a heat pump if you charged the sunamp with overnight cheap electricity - also charged up a solar PV battery at same time - then used the PV and or the PV battery later in the day to recharge the sunamp during peak time but using the free electric from your PV or the off peak electric stored in the PV battery? Isn’t this a sensible doable solution that avoids heat pumps that seem very expensive. Yes you have the expense of fitting PV and buying a battery. The only down side I can find (if the sunamp can be used in the way I describe) is that some people may want a heat pump to give them a cooling capability if we see those 40 degree days again. I have PV already and it pays me back around £300 per year from F.I.T and obviously it saves me more by supplying me with electricity during daylight hours so my question is why spend money on a heat pump when a solar PV battery might be a better money saver IF….a sunamp is capable of providing central heating and hot water? I welcome being educated by anyone who knows the capabilities of the sunamps.
We have an older version, the Uniq, not the Thermino, but I imagine the principle is the same. Interesting to see it explained properly at last, rather than just the 'it works like a hand warmer' I got from the Fischer Future heat fitters. I'm still not quite sure though how it works with only cold water coming through it, as it is our only source of hot water, no immersion heater tank, so does it just use electricity to turn the pcm back to it's liquid form, ready for the next time water is needed heating?
I enjoyed the video very much thank you. You mention with its 'energy efficiency' (5.10 time line) but you don't mention how efficient it is? Ideally it would be good to know how efficient is it compared to a normal domestic hot water.
It depends what's meant by efficient really, you're never going to get more heat out of this than you put in so it boils down (pardon the pun) to the insulation really.
Got to be use a lot less energy to get up to temp that when compared to a 300liter cylinder - even if it’s not as efficient
@@russellthomas9391 No, the point is this small box would hold a similar amount or energy as a large cylinder of water as it is using a principal of heat of fusion - when a material changes sate is can absorb masses amounts of energy and not increase in temperature. Just need to pick the material whose phase change temperature matched the temperature output you need.
@@russellthomas9391 you can't get out more than you can put in.
@@eFIXXENERGY What "efficiency" means to just about everyone who has even a rudimentary knowledge of physics and mechanical systems is how much energy is converted through the device and how much is lost. The conventional hot water heater burns gas or electrically heats an element to heat the water, this unit primarily uses heat from an outside source and a direct electrical element as a booster. Not exactly apples to apples.
So how good is the material and housing at retaining heat when idle and how much heat is is absorbed from the heat pump comparing the pump side inlet/outlet temperatures to a heat exchanger in a tank of water? Simple questions that would be very easily measurable and answered.
This system looks as if it would pair well with a solar hot water system. If the water was mixed with glycol and circulated in a closed loop like the heat pump allowing the solar hot water system to operate in sub freezing temperatures.
Excellent concept, hope it's successful in longevity and competitive in costs.
Very informative. Can you tell me if there are any benefits to installing a Sunamp if you don't have solar panels or a heat exchanger, but instead use mains electricity?
Not unless you can get cheap electricity, which normally means having the ability to delay using most of your electricity until nightime.
I'm always suspicious of new products, but this sounds a viable option to gas. However what is the life expectancy of this product and does it need regular servicing?
Good to know about this as It is so new. Was watching and thinking what’s this got to do with electrics until I realised it was a different channel 😂
😂 Easy mistake to make, stay tuned for more! 👍
Clever stuff! 😎👌 So it's a bit like pumping water through a grid of pipes and heat exchangers set in the chemical? Or like a storage heater stores its heat?... Salt & vinegar for your chips by the bucket full if it leaks lol.
That's exactly right, it's essentially a storage heater with the added bonus that the phase change material makes it super effective as it can store more heat than water, which makes the unit smaller than a tank. 👍
At scale it's even more advantageous for storing heat on heat networks as unlike a buffer tank, all the heat comes of at the same temperature rather than cooling as heat is taken off.
The big question for me is flow rates, as in litres per minute pass through at 60 degrees no good if it's like an undersized combi boiler having to slow the tap down to get nice hot water!
Looks great but you have left out the most important part. WHAT IS THE COST OF THE UNIT???
Hi, quick question. The data sheets state a 25l/min max draw off at 55 degC. If for argument sake I draw off at this rate this will give me 12 mins of 55 degC water but after this, does the temperature just degrade to a lower value? I know in reality a shower will be mixed down so this isn't a real life scenario but wanted to understand how it works. Also, from a reheat prespective how much energy is required to re-energise the phase change material? For a 300 L tank with reheat of 2hrs from 10-60 degC is 8.8kw (4.4kwh of direct electricity) what is the equivalent here? if my maths is out let me know but in priciple what is the comparison? If it can continually produce low grade heat after the initial discharge then this is very good; just thinking about a very busy house if people are having loads of showers if guests are around
Thanks
A key question is in how the stored energy is released? Is it released all at once or can it be released in fractions? With the hand warmer example, all of the stored energy is released at once. It takes time to cool down, but the whole lot of sodium acetate is crystallised in one go. It's not like a battery where I can draw off just the energy I require.
I believe they are using paraffin wax kept at high heat with a wax to water, heat exchanger running through the wax.
@@PerhapsNoodle They state that the phase change material is sodium acetate, see 4:40 onwards. He describes the material as comprising of salt and vinegar, which is not correct, but that's probably just misspoken. Sodium hydroxide and vinegar would form sodium acetate.
Hello
Do you do any training course to be an approved installer in order to get maximum warranty for the unit
Thank you
Interesting. Like others on UA-cam, I'm curious about residential cost and installation procedure. I'm also state side, and there don't appear to be any distribution channels for us.
Does the electrical circuit stop when a certain temperature has been reached?
What is the flow rate you can achieve with these, the sun amp needs to heat the water to use, can you fill a bath or run a shower whilst the kitchen is being used?
Very good product
First how hot does it get so how much energy does it store and will it heat up the water really instantly. Second when lets say the 300 liter capacity is spent, how long will it take until it is operational again to heat up the same amount?
Great idea but leaves me with two questions, firstly how do you trigger the crystallisation process within the unit and secondly once triggered how do you control it and prevent all the solution from crystallising at once and hence expending all the energy in one go.
As I understand they are not using up super saturated liquid (salt water) like the hand warmers do.They use paraffin wax. So it's not really a great example to use the hand warmer as a comparison. But paraffin wax holds twice as many joules per kilogram of heat vs water. They have simply designed a container for melted paraffin wax that is insulated like a hot water tank, and then they run exchangers through the paraffin to extract the heat into water as demand requires. If you leave the thermino for months without input heat the wax will eventually lose its heat and solidify, unlike a hand warmer.
If the piping has no issues with lime scale.... That's a great product!
Does this system need venting the site I’m choosing will be difficult to get to outside just worried about overpressure? Thanks james
Will it work with soils fuel boiler stove.
Good review. Where and when did the exhibition take place?
It was held at ExCel London 1-3 March
How heavy are these units, do they arrive empty and we add water on installation?
The units are filled with a phase change material so arrive on site fully filled. This does make the units quite heavy compared to empty hot water cylinders.
Size 3 which is the one in the video weighs around 60kg the 6 is around 120kg the next size up will probably be in the 200 range
What is the melting/freezing point of your phase change material? I want to make a coffee cup that absorbs the "too hot to drink" energy but gives it back (phase change temp) to flatten the temp drop curve to lengthen the optimal drinking temp time? Brilliant right?
Interesting. The phase change material used in the Thermino product range melts/freezes at 58°C. Sunamp has phase change materials across a widen range of temperatures for different applications, for example, -30°C for refrigeration, 5°C for cooling such as cold chain storage, 58°C for domestic hot water and space heating and 118°C for high temperature >80°C hot water applications such as sterilisation
Providing it works. Really the most important question is does it require a service and how long will it last. How hot can you get the water. How many gallons of hot water a minute will it provide.
This would depend on the heat battery size, our nominal hot water rating for our heat batteries are:,
Thermino 70 - 1.59gpm
Thermino 150 - 3.96gpm
Thermino 210 - 5.28gpm
Thermino 300 - 6.6gpm
Can this be added to a thankless water heater system? I have a gas tank less in my house. I'll be adding PV on the roof and this seems like a cost effective way to store energy
Good stuff, thanks for sharing!
Massive thanks for watching 👍🏻
When the system fails, and it will. I can imagine the cost for someone to come out and fix it right the first time will be astronomical. It reminds me of an old Homart stainless steel porcelain lined gas furnace in a house I used to own, sure it wasn't that efficient but it chugged away every year for 50 years and it still in the house. My Sister had a new high efficiency model and had a guy out every year to fix the damn thing. Technology is great just make sure its dependable!
Totally agree, I was just reading through the comments looking for something like this. Obviously it will be beneficial for some applications, but you almost have to re-skill an entire industry. There may be a reason the old 'hot water cylinder' has been around for so long.
That said, a very interesting product, and I will research it some more before committing to replace my vented cylinder with an unvented unit.
Was this PHEX exhibition? Think I missed this one
Hello,It is an interesting product. I would like to ask you, what are the losses [ kwh / day] ?
Heat loss rate kWh/24 (W) according to size of heat battery is: Thermino 70 - 0.48 (20); Thermino 150 - 0.67 (28.1); Thermino 210 - 0.77 (32.1); Thermino 300 - 0.84 (35)
Links in description not 'working'!?
great video and great idea
Its standby power is 7W...it's like 2 LED bulbs switched on, what does it do when standing by, why 7W for standby? For the "e" models (mains electricity only models), does it need to use the full power for hours each day, or only need the power at the moment when the hot water taps are switched on?
How many inputs does one of these have? Could I connect an oil boiler, boiler stove and solar hot water together? It looks like an interesting idea that would be worth further research. Thanks
There aren't many materials with a higher specific heat than water, and those are phase change materials. But even heat stored in phase change medium is subject to the exact same thermal losses - you don't own the heat - you only borrow it. If you don't use it, it goes away the same as if it was stored as hot water.
Nice product, but from what I've researched, the PCM melts at 58C, for domestic hot water applications. If thats correct, then the battery won't charge off a standalone, low temperature, air-to-water heat pump. You'd need a high temp heat pump or a supplemental immersion heat source. Where's the operational cost benefit in that?
It has an immersion element built into it.
Excellent video and very clear description, thank you. You mention using the heat battery for a shower or to wash up... could it be used to replace a gas combi boiler for central heating, i.e. hot-water radiators? Could it supply enough hot water to heat to run the central heating for 2-3 hours in the evening and morning? Thank you.
In short, no. The heat required to heat a large space far exceeds the capacity of any form of storage.
what is the unit cost vs equivalent 300l tank storage?, ignoring installation etc, just basically the cost of the unit...
love when they tout new devices but never give price nor comparisons to reg heat pump hybrid units
or yopu can only get price from high pressure salesperson
How does it control the crystallisation process? If the design is similar to heat pads, once crystallisation starts, it can't be stopped. In which case, you would need to use all of the energy that it is storing immediately, else it would go to waste.
Hi guys. Greetings from The Netherlands. Forgive me for asking a typical Dutch question, but what are we looking at here price wise?
Is, it as fast as a 250 litre tank in filling your bath. Or is as slow as combo boiler?
Traditional heater used 4-5 times more energy, so I don't see how this would increase the efficiency. Heat pumps are efficient at low temperatures (under 50). At what temperature this phase change material works?
are there any technical documents I can look at, talking about the specific energy capacity of these units, thermal efficiency, and time to heat loss, as well as some at least some rough cost numbers so that $/BTU stored could be compared?
Has there been any research into solar water heating vs. pure PV as the energy source?
I could see this being an interesting idea for an off-grid house I'm designing, as an alternative to multi-thousand gallon heavily insulated water or glycol tank as a thermal battery.
Thanks!
My house is offgrid and heated with PV but thermal energy storage is still needed for night time and multiple cloudy days.
It does not make that much sense regarding the discharging of heat, but I can see this technology potential with integrated preheater "temperature ranges for pcm is not that high" in commercial hot water application, iam conducting my graduation research in this matter, Would appreciate any feedback.
so this is kind of like a combi boiler (instantaneous hot water, not stored) but instead of gas its using stored energy which can come from either heat pump or electric? How long can it hold the heat? Eg could you heat up with off peak overnight electric and use through the following day? And can this run heating as well as hot water, or mainly for hot water only?
I have an aging gas boiler that requires changing. The replacement cost is not cheap and so are you suggesting that this unit replaces the existing tank as well! Heat exchangers are not cheap either, and until prices are much lower, for me, are not an option. An indication of what it all might cost is, unfortunately, missing from this otherwise clear description of how the unit functions.
It plugs in the wall socket!! Game over.
Can this still be used with a combi!?? I have excess solar and don’t have the space for a tank or the money to change a 3 year old boiler
I get free power between 9pm and midnight every day. I would like to store enough energy to release say 300w at 220v for 6 hours 1.8kwh
I'm in Australia. Can one to these take the rejected heat from the air conditioning heat pump that cools my house?
What is the price point and will it be available in the US?
Great bit of kit. What sort of price are they though?
Don’t get much change from a £1000 - good to see you here Brian.
Wow , brilliant
You made it sound so simple but actually there are issues with these. I looked at buying one (the largest they do), they are not cheap and as someone already has mentioned finding an installer is like finding a plumber who actually turns up.. you can’t.
They also have a really bad issue in that they don’t recharge once they fall bellow a percentage of usable heat. They will leave you without hot water and god forbid you use these for central heating and hot water as they suggest you can, they will leave you cold.
They do have a get out of jail feature though.. Sunamp say buy two! One for a backup. This then makes these so expensive and take up so much room what’s the point?
Also you can’t install outside of the home making these pretty useless if you live in a house with not much room.
Take my advice and don’t get rid of your water tank. There’s plenty of other ways of filling that with cheaper energy if you have solar or use the grid over night using an EV tariff.
Do you have any links to the sources that describe the problem you outline. What do you mean they don’t recharge, what stops this and what is the percentage you refer to?
@@jimporter I don't have sources and I'm not Lee, but I was expecting more information on this as well. Your hand warmer requires you to boil it 15 minutes. But today was kind of cloudy and it could only boil 4 minutes. Still stays solid, no phase change here. So basically the 4 minutes of heat are wasted and this product is still waiting to "recharge" (make the phase change that absorbs energy) before being able to provide (make the phase change that delivers energy). I would expect issues like this.
Thanks for the comment. Just what I was looking for.
The only difference this has to a water tank in practicality is size. You'll get cold water regardless of using this or a water tank if you don't put enough heat in.
There is no wasted heat. All energy you put into this will come back out, it doesn't require a set amount of input before it starts working.
Where has it been demonstrated to perform for a household. Can it be installed by DIY enthusiast - that would encourage the manufacturer to increase sales and provide feedback to further popularise the product.