I have a funny little story about this koan. I was at the Ryumonji Zen Monastery in northern Iowa for a summer practice period. That afternoon we were presented this koan as part of the head monk ceremony that was going on. When that was over, one of the visitors needed a ride to La Crosse, WI to catch the train, so I volunteered to drive him there. When we got to La Crosse, sitting at a stop light, I noticed that people were flashing their headlights at me for some reason. Finally someone yelled out, "Hey, your tire is flat!" I thanked him. I got the tire filled and the visitor to the train station and ended up being able to get that tire replaced in less than a couple of hours and got back to the monastery. That evening I told everyone that I had experienced first-hand the thousand hands and eyes of the Bodhisattva, right there in LaCrosse. So many hands and eyes.
The original Pali name for the "Loving Kindness Meditation" is Metta Sutta. Metta means "loving kindness" - not compassion. The Pali for compassion is "karuna." It is not about being "nice" to others but concern for their suffering. Metta and Karuna are the first 2 of the 4 "divine abidings" (bramaviharas). 1. "May all beings be happy" - Metta 2. "May all beings be free from suffering" - Karuna When you want someone to be happy, you give them what they want. When you want someone to be free from suffering, you give them what they need. When I recognize the other as myself, I give them what they need. When I do this without thinking, it is like adjusting a pillow in the middle of the night. This is compassion.
I’m more familiar with the Tibetan tradition of Mahayana practice, but my understanding of Loving-Kindness meditation (irrespective of its Pali origin) is that it has nothing to do with “being nice,” but rather with taking an opportunity to pause one’s baseline self-centeredness (a central cause of all suffering, ours and all beings’) while wishing for the cessation of (relief from) suffering by family and friends, acquaintances, strangers, and even “enemies.” It’s a skillful practice, not a social nicety, just as meditation is not about “relaxation” but rather skillful awareness of all that’s perceivable in the ever changing, non-inherent, now (including “mind” and its discontents).
I was hitchhiking north out of Gallup NM on #491 heading towards Window Rock when an old Native man in a pickup truck pulled over. He put two 1 Gallon jugs of water on the roadside and said: "You'll need these.'' I said: "That's 16lbs of water.'' Without turning back he replied: "Get stronger.'' and drove away. 😉
- Here's a quote from Chan Master Sheng Yen's (2013) The Infinite Mirror: "... completely enlightened beings do not attach to phenomena. They respond to phenomena, but not with a mind of attachment. Such people look normal to us. They eat, sleep, walk, talk, work and laugh, yet the source of their actions, thoughts and words are wisdom, not attachment. They react to phenomena spontaneously, immediately, and without intellectual discrimination. Their actions stem from an immediate intuition whose source is wisdom, and they respond to the needs of sentient beings as a result of their vows. Thoroughly enlightened beings are not blocks of wood or zombies. They are fully aware and fully functioning." Sounds like just what you are saying!
My personal intuition is that when you express true compassion your sense of self goes to sleep. You can finally rest! Get your pillow and sleep all night! There is nothing to do nowhere to go for you. I see it as a beautiful though infuriatingly indirect expression of the equivalence of compassion and freedom. What do you think?
hey Brad. im that guy from germany and thank u very lot for answering, that I was really looking for. i can see clearly now. and I mean it as I say. rhx for not letting me alone with the sbgz chapter😅 regredably there is no german translation by "from beyond zen"
The fact that you felt the need to describe the difference between Marvel and DC in detail makes me think you haven't seen a big budget Hollywood movie since about 2007
Your example and explanation really perked my ears up. I've often thought about Kannon as the compassionate action of the Buddhas in the mundane world, but it's hard to picture exactly what that looks like. Nichiren would often say "living beings are the Buddha," while Zen dudes like to say "your mind is Buddha." All mind is of the same ultimate source, and the nature of enlightenment is inherent in everything. Moreover, Mahayana argues that the "seeds of enlightenment" are present in all sentient beings regardless of perceived purity. If we think about the fundamental unity of all things in this way, compassion shown from one to another is like a man helping himself without even realizing it. And said compassion is automatic and constantly at work, stemming from the originally enlightened root of all "mind" which permeates the universe. It's like a Buddha tucking himself in! In Shobogenzo, Dogen writes: "Because the merit of the One Bright Pearl takes some ‘visible’ form... Avalokiteshvara and Maitreya exist right now, seeing Its forms and hearing Its sounds. And there are old Buddhas and there will be new Buddhas who manifest in bodily form in order to give voice to the Dharma." Great stuff as always, Brad! Love these kinds of heavy topics.
I have to say that Gabrielle Linnebach's German translation of the SBGZ (under the guidance of Old Gudo) is written in a superb German, and I think her translation is to be recommended for German speaking people. I once was at a place in Germany where they had it, and started to read it for fun and was amazed at the quality of the language.
Fun thing- I’m sure you might be aware, but what a lot of people are referring to when they say “Pali Canon,” is the collection called the Nikayas. We have these teachings in Mahayana too called the Agamas. They’re not exact replicas, but the teachings correspond. I’ve also heard that most of this stuff was being written down in the same relative period of time- not sure how accurate that is but it makes sense. I’m by no means an “expert”
@@EvanBerry. Interesting. I used to have an anthology of Superman comics through the years. I never got into Spider-man except for the old cartoon series.
At our Temple, we have elements of the Pali Canon in our daily liturgy. We also often chant the Enmei Juku Kanongyo (I'm not sure of the spelling). I agree with what you're saying about compassion but I'd like to say something about my experience of regularly chanting compassion liturgy. On the surface, it can certainly be taken as a "reminder" to "be compassionate". However, as a practitioner who has been "soaking" in this... "bath" for... well dang, it's getting close to a decade now I guess, I have a bit of a different perspective. I don't think our teachers included these regular chants about compassion to "remind" us to be compassionate. It's more that, as humans living in a difficult word, we almost certainly aren't as spontaneously compassionate as we could be. Not that we should have to "reach" for compassion, but the more we "soak" in the bath of bodhisattva embodiment, the more we naturally embody bodhisattva. Gosh. That was... not clear. Maybe. Anyway, thanks for your videos, Brad. Always a pleasure.
I think you’ve misunderstood the point of the Metta sutta/Metta meditation. You say Zen is about going deep into philosophical problems (which ones and why?), to me that is not what Buddhism is about or what the Buddha taught, rather it is about going deep into positive experience/feelings/mental states and that is the point of the Metta sutta. The lines repeating ‘outside of me and inside’, ‘above and below’, ‘born and to be born’ etc etc are merely to emphasise the unconditional nature of Metta, no being/thing has to do anything to ‘deserve’ metta. Metta really has nothing to do with the other/the object of metta and everything to do with how you feel (towards the other/circumstances). It’s not some wishful thinking that believes it is doing good outside of you, although it likely does (it will affect your future actions, but also there are people out there that truly feel unloved and the thought/knowledge that there are wise people somewhere that love unconditionally, that sit and send you love, can be of great comfort). Instead it is about the internal cultivation of positive abiding, it’s joyful. Karuna (compassion) is just a subset of Metta (for those in suffering) but has the same feeling tone, it’s light and warm and joyous. Compassion is not ‘I feel bad for (guy I sent obscure text to)’ or the taking on of other’s grief, it should also feel good. To an enlightened person it may seem that love/compassion arises without intention, but right view and right intention are still there they have just become somewhat unconscious/automatic (the hand reaching for the pillow during sleep). Metta meditation, and others, are the process of making the conscious process unconscious, it is the rewriting of the emotional circuits (strengthening some and weakening/eliminating others) to the point where, without thinking, it becomes impossible to dwell outside of joy(a form of love) and peace. That is the nature of the enlightened mind…peace and love.
Positive emotions and negative emotions arise from the very same place. Going deeply into positive states is precisely the same as going deeply into negative states.
@@HardcoreZen To me they are not precisely the same. An experience of intense grief or anger feels markedly different to one of intense love/joy or serenity. I’m no neuroscientist (nor do I claim to be an expert in Buddhism, certainly not Zen) but even if the brain-body pathways/circuits are indeed the exact same for all emotions there is conditioning (I suspect there is at least overlap as I feel that I myself have ‘rewritten’ ‘pathways’ that, for example, used to carry grief/melancholia but now flow with a more joyous love and acceptance/peace). That’s what I believe the Buddha taught, and that with right effort and mindfulness, right view and intention, right concentration etc you can condition a very favourable, joyous and peaceful experience. I gather there was no word for emotion at the time of the Buddha and he spoke more about mental states(thought patterns/views) and feeling tones(subconscious/whole bodily feelings). Even if one couldn’t cultivate/manipulate the latter, which I believe one can, one can seemingly (consciously) change the former (unless you believe no free will or predetermination I guess).
Don’t think chanting the metta sutta came from Suzuki Roshi, the sfzc liturgy underwent development under succeeding abbots. We also chant the “Pali Refuges”.
great talk... Have you thought about how this perspective overlaps with Christ words : "do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing" ? I believe the message is : do not let your self-gratifying machinery get in the way. Another superimposition I thought about just yesterday and would like to bring to your attention is the following one : -Vakkali Sutta (400-200 BC) : He who sees me sees the Dharma - Gospel (John ?) He who sees me sees the Father. A bold claim would point at the absence of difference....fundamentally...would you ?
I think motivation and stillness can complement one another. We make plans sometimes and then we let go others. I life without any purpose might get boring,
For me metta is loving kindness and Karuna the drive to get people out of samsara through the appropriate use of upaya. I'm right, I'm wrong, I'm right and wrong and I'm nor right nor wrong. 😂
I enjoyed your discussion Brad; I identify most with teachers like Nisargadatta who I've heard you speak about. I've also heard Zen teachers espouse non-duality. But interestingly you didn't mention that. In Advaita or Zen non-dualism, there are no others to help; it's a mind identified illusion, maya, ignorance. How about some straight up philosophy? I think of compassion as the Theravada tradition rooted in dualism and progressive paths. Still, I liked your analysis.
Could you comment on this term attributed to Dogen - grandmother's mind? “You can understand all of Buddhism, but you cannot go beyond your abilities and your intelligence unless you have robai-shin, grandmother mind, the mind of great compassion.” -Eihei Dogen
Without intention-without thinking? The movement of compassion is not rational or irrational. Seems like compassion has come to mean a little more than sympathetic in the west.
The view of compassion you talk about strikes me as very similar to the Taoist view of virtue, where it is said that the "highest" virtue really has no idea that it is being virtuous. It just does it's thing naturally and without forethought. Nevertheless, I think it's healthy to keep the Golden Rule in mind as we go about our business.
Cool, but personally would not be so quick to dismiss good intentions and wishing others well. It's basically what prayer and chanting is. I used to be a skeptic but I've come to believe that it can work.
How much money, time and effort Zen fans spend trying to be more "Zen" , the robes, incence, staues, books and scripts , all attatchements tney cant let go of.
In Buddhism, compassion is not an emotion or feeling but a state arising from wisdom and understanding of suffering It is calm, objective, and directed towards all sentient beings, rather than being a spontaneous, emotional response to an individual's suffering
I have a funny little story about this koan. I was at the Ryumonji Zen Monastery in northern Iowa for a summer practice period. That afternoon we were presented this koan as part of the head monk ceremony that was going on. When that was over, one of the visitors needed a ride to La Crosse, WI to catch the train, so I volunteered to drive him there. When we got to La Crosse, sitting at a stop light, I noticed that people were flashing their headlights at me for some reason. Finally someone yelled out, "Hey, your tire is flat!" I thanked him. I got the tire filled and the visitor to the train station and ended up being able to get that tire replaced in less than a couple of hours and got back to the monastery. That evening I told everyone that I had experienced first-hand the thousand hands and eyes of the Bodhisattva, right there in LaCrosse. So many hands and eyes.
@@brione2001 Great story! And the La Crosse area must be a hot bed of Zen. Hokyoji is nearby too.
The original Pali name for the "Loving Kindness Meditation" is Metta Sutta. Metta means "loving kindness" - not compassion.
The Pali for compassion is "karuna." It is not about being "nice" to others but concern for their suffering.
Metta and Karuna are the first 2 of the 4 "divine abidings" (bramaviharas).
1. "May all beings be happy" - Metta
2. "May all beings be free from suffering" - Karuna
When you want someone to be happy, you give them what they want.
When you want someone to be free from suffering, you give them what they need.
When I recognize the other as myself, I give them what they need. When I do this without thinking, it is like adjusting a pillow in the middle of the night. This is compassion.
Well said.
May you be happy
May you be healthy
May you be safe
May you live a life of ease
What an opportunity: to write the first American song about Compassion.
Love and compassion is not always "nice". Sometimes love and compassion is firm, hard, and direct.
I’m more familiar with the Tibetan tradition of Mahayana practice, but my understanding of Loving-Kindness meditation (irrespective of its Pali origin) is that it has nothing to do with “being nice,” but rather with taking an opportunity to pause one’s baseline self-centeredness (a central cause of all suffering, ours and all beings’) while wishing for the cessation of (relief from) suffering by family and friends, acquaintances, strangers, and even “enemies.” It’s a skillful practice, not a social nicety, just as meditation is not about “relaxation” but rather skillful awareness of all that’s perceivable in the ever changing, non-inherent, now (including “mind” and its discontents).
Cool explanation Brad, this makes me think about patience. The minute you think you’re being patient, you are they not being patient!
I was hitchhiking north out of Gallup NM on #491 heading towards Window Rock when an old Native man in a pickup truck pulled over.
He put two 1 Gallon jugs of water on the roadside and said: "You'll need these.''
I said: "That's 16lbs of water.''
Without turning back he replied: "Get stronger.'' and drove away. 😉
- Here's a quote from Chan Master Sheng Yen's (2013) The Infinite Mirror:
"... completely enlightened beings do not attach
to phenomena. They respond to phenomena, but not with a mind of attachment. Such
people look normal to us. They eat, sleep, walk, talk, work and laugh, yet the source of
their actions, thoughts and words are wisdom, not attachment. They react to
phenomena spontaneously, immediately, and without intellectual discrimination. Their
actions stem from an immediate intuition whose source is wisdom, and they respond to
the needs of sentient beings as a result of their vows. Thoroughly enlightened beings
are not blocks of wood or zombies. They are fully aware and fully functioning."
Sounds like just what you are saying!
My personal intuition is that when you express true compassion your sense of self goes to sleep. You can finally rest! Get your pillow and sleep all night! There is nothing to do nowhere to go for you. I see it as a beautiful though infuriatingly indirect expression of the equivalence of compassion and freedom. What do you think?
My personal intuition is that when your sense of self goes to sleep, you express true compassion. (Same thing really.)
hey Brad. im that guy from germany and thank u very lot for answering, that I was really looking for. i can see clearly now. and I mean it as I say. rhx for not letting me alone with the sbgz chapter😅 regredably there is no german translation by "from beyond zen"
The fact that you felt the need to describe the difference between Marvel and DC in detail makes me think you haven't seen a big budget Hollywood movie since about 2007
Your example and explanation really perked my ears up. I've often thought about Kannon as the compassionate action of the Buddhas in the mundane world, but it's hard to picture exactly what that looks like.
Nichiren would often say "living beings are the Buddha," while Zen dudes like to say "your mind is Buddha." All mind is of the same ultimate source, and the nature of enlightenment is inherent in everything. Moreover, Mahayana argues that the "seeds of enlightenment" are present in all sentient beings regardless of perceived purity.
If we think about the fundamental unity of all things in this way, compassion shown from one to another is like a man helping himself without even realizing it. And said compassion is automatic and constantly at work, stemming from the originally enlightened root of all "mind" which permeates the universe. It's like a Buddha tucking himself in!
In Shobogenzo, Dogen writes: "Because the merit of the One Bright Pearl takes some ‘visible’ form... Avalokiteshvara and Maitreya exist right now, seeing Its forms and hearing Its sounds. And there are old Buddhas and there will be new Buddhas who manifest in bodily form in order to give voice to the Dharma."
Great stuff as always, Brad! Love these kinds of heavy topics.
Great explanation. I love the orange tree analogy.
Hi Brad - Remember my invitation to come to Costa Rica after the pandemic? Well, here we are. And it's December - perfect weather. Let me know!
I have to say that Gabrielle Linnebach's German translation of the SBGZ (under the guidance of Old Gudo) is written in a superb German, and I think her translation is to be recommended for German speaking people. I once was at a place in Germany where they had it, and started to read it for fun and was amazed at the quality of the language.
Yes, it's superb. A direct translation from Japanese to German. Highly recommended.
Fun thing- I’m sure you might be aware, but what a lot of people are referring to when they say “Pali Canon,” is the collection called the Nikayas. We have these teachings in Mahayana too called the Agamas. They’re not exact replicas, but the teachings correspond. I’ve also heard that most of this stuff was being written down in the same relative period of time- not sure how accurate that is but it makes sense. I’m by no means an “expert”
Sadly, not everyone's reflexes end up as wholesome actions
Fun stuff, thanks
Funny thing is there is an episode of family guy where they become the simpsons.
The answer my Friend ..😊
As far as I know, Mahayana Buddhists also accept the Pali Canon as canonical.
A song about compassion:
Sympathy/Rare Bird
The reason Spider-Man was given a hyphen was to differentiate it a little better at first glance on the comic racks from Superman.
@@EvanBerry. Interesting. I used to have an anthology of Superman comics through the years. I never got into Spider-man except for the old cartoon series.
We must remind the Germans (and other folk) that trying to be happy (or good) is unhappiness (or evil).
great opener!
I’m one of those westerners that lap it up😂
i giggled at the homer thing
At our Temple, we have elements of the Pali Canon in our daily liturgy. We also often chant the Enmei Juku Kanongyo (I'm not sure of the spelling). I agree with what you're saying about compassion but I'd like to say something about my experience of regularly chanting compassion liturgy. On the surface, it can certainly be taken as a "reminder" to "be compassionate". However, as a practitioner who has been "soaking" in this... "bath" for... well dang, it's getting close to a decade now I guess, I have a bit of a different perspective.
I don't think our teachers included these regular chants about compassion to "remind" us to be compassionate. It's more that, as humans living in a difficult word, we almost certainly aren't as spontaneously compassionate as we could be. Not that we should have to "reach" for compassion, but the more we "soak" in the bath of bodhisattva embodiment, the more we naturally embody bodhisattva. Gosh. That was... not clear. Maybe. Anyway, thanks for your videos, Brad. Always a pleasure.
I wonder if compassion is a type of passion...
I think you’ve misunderstood the point of the Metta sutta/Metta meditation. You say Zen is about going deep into philosophical problems (which ones and why?), to me that is not what Buddhism is about or what the Buddha taught, rather it is about going deep into positive experience/feelings/mental states and that is the point of the Metta sutta. The lines repeating ‘outside of me and inside’, ‘above and below’, ‘born and to be born’ etc etc are merely to emphasise the unconditional nature of Metta, no being/thing has to do anything to ‘deserve’ metta. Metta really has nothing to do with the other/the object of metta and everything to do with how you feel (towards the other/circumstances).
It’s not some wishful thinking that believes it is doing good outside of you, although it likely does (it will affect your future actions, but also there are people out there that truly feel unloved and the thought/knowledge that there are wise people somewhere that love unconditionally, that sit and send you love, can be of great comfort). Instead it is about the internal cultivation of positive abiding, it’s joyful. Karuna (compassion) is just a subset of Metta (for those in suffering) but has the same feeling tone, it’s light and warm and joyous. Compassion is not ‘I feel bad for (guy I sent obscure text to)’ or the taking on of other’s grief, it should also feel good.
To an enlightened person it may seem that love/compassion arises without intention, but right view and right intention are still there they have just become somewhat unconscious/automatic (the hand reaching for the pillow during sleep). Metta meditation, and others, are the process of making the conscious process unconscious, it is the rewriting of the emotional circuits (strengthening some and weakening/eliminating others) to the point where, without thinking, it becomes impossible to dwell outside of joy(a form of love) and peace. That is the nature of the enlightened mind…peace and love.
Positive emotions and negative emotions arise from the very same place. Going deeply into positive states is precisely the same as going deeply into negative states.
@@HardcoreZen To me they are not precisely the same. An experience of intense grief or anger feels markedly different to one of intense love/joy or serenity. I’m no neuroscientist (nor do I claim to be an expert in Buddhism, certainly not Zen) but even if the brain-body pathways/circuits are indeed the exact same for all emotions there is conditioning (I suspect there is at least overlap as I feel that I myself have ‘rewritten’ ‘pathways’ that, for example, used to carry grief/melancholia but now flow with a more joyous love and acceptance/peace). That’s what I believe the Buddha taught, and that with right effort and mindfulness, right view and intention, right concentration etc you can condition a very favourable, joyous and peaceful experience.
I gather there was no word for emotion at the time of the Buddha and he spoke more about mental states(thought patterns/views) and feeling tones(subconscious/whole bodily feelings). Even if one couldn’t cultivate/manipulate the latter, which I believe one can, one can seemingly (consciously) change the former (unless you believe no free will or predetermination I guess).
Calling Dr Howard, Dr Fine, Dr Howard
Don’t think chanting the metta sutta came from Suzuki Roshi, the sfzc liturgy underwent development under succeeding abbots. We also chant the “Pali Refuges”.
There’s “Affection” by Jonathan Richman but that’s not quite the same.
great talk...
Have you thought about how this perspective overlaps with Christ words : "do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing" ?
I believe the message is : do not let your self-gratifying machinery get in the way.
Another superimposition I thought about just yesterday and would like to bring to your attention is the following one :
-Vakkali Sutta (400-200 BC) : He who sees me sees the Dharma
- Gospel (John ?) He who sees me sees the Father.
A bold claim would point at the absence of difference....fundamentally...would you ?
awesome backdrop. hi zig.
I think motivation and stillness can complement one another. We make plans sometimes and then we let go others. I life without any purpose might get boring,
The theory is that motivation gets replaced by illumination.
I’m distracted by the clip from one of the greatest of three stooges episodes
Linking Karuna (compassion) and metta (loving kindness) is a bit of a stretch.
@@eumeswil Why? It doesn’t seem like a stretch at all.
For me metta is loving kindness and Karuna the drive to get people out of samsara through the appropriate use of upaya. I'm right, I'm wrong, I'm right and wrong and I'm nor right nor wrong. 😂
I enjoyed your discussion Brad; I identify most with teachers like Nisargadatta who I've heard you speak about. I've also heard Zen teachers espouse non-duality. But interestingly you didn't mention that. In Advaita or Zen non-dualism, there are no others to help; it's a mind identified illusion, maya, ignorance. How about some straight up philosophy? I think of compassion as the Theravada tradition rooted in dualism and progressive paths. Still, I liked your analysis.
Could you comment on this term attributed to Dogen - grandmother's mind?
“You can understand all of Buddhism, but you cannot go beyond your abilities and your intelligence unless you have robai-shin, grandmother mind, the mind of great compassion.” -Eihei Dogen
Without intention-without thinking? The movement of compassion is not rational or irrational. Seems like compassion has come to mean a little more than sympathetic in the west.
The view of compassion you talk about strikes me as very similar to the Taoist view of virtue, where it is said that the "highest" virtue really has no idea that it is being virtuous.
It just does it's thing naturally and without forethought.
Nevertheless, I think it's healthy to keep the Golden Rule in mind as we go about our business.
Cool, but personally would not be so quick to dismiss good intentions and wishing others well. It's basically what prayer and chanting is. I used to be a skeptic but I've come to believe that it can work.
How much money, time and effort Zen fans spend trying to be more "Zen" , the robes, incence, staues, books and scripts , all attatchements tney cant let go of.
They should only spend money on my books! They are the only books that make you more Zen!
Love you Brad
In Buddhism, compassion is not an emotion or feeling but a state arising from wisdom and understanding of suffering
It is calm, objective, and directed towards all sentient beings, rather than being a spontaneous, emotional response to an individual's suffering