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I do a different method for cumulative DC's: first I set the prime DC and the player's choose a prime actor to led the check. The other players then attempt to assist against a help DC of the Prime - 10. So lets say the boulder is DC 25 so the DC to help is 15, the first roll is 17, then an assisting player rolls a 20 and the third a 12; that means the first assistant adds 5 to the 17 because he rolled 5 above the help DC, the third fails to meaningfully contribute but doesn't hurt either (except sometimes if the situation calls for it and roll is real low). With a total of 22 the boulder budges but isn't fully moved.
For your "what skill should be used to hide an object" question at 9:25, these are the types of situations where I like to remind everyone that there is no such thing as a "Skill Check" in 5e. It is an Ability Check, which means you should look to the base ability scores first. For this specific situation, hiding an object would not be Dexterity based because there's no one watching. Instead, it would be either Intelligence or Wisdom (to know where best to hide it). I would likely say Wisdom, as an awareness of where in the room is least obvious. After that, you can apply proficiency if you are proficient in Stealth, Investigation, or any other skill that you can argue will help. But it should never be a straight-up Dexterity (Stealth) check.
Nathaniel Soule this comment just made my day! That is SO WELL SAID!!! I could not agree more with everything you said! You broke it down so flawlessly that is EXACTLY the answer there! Once you said “nobody is there to watch” for sure dexterity goes out the window! Man that was some good adjudication bro! For real!
Keaton Tiner HAHAHA! I never thought about it this way! literally laughed out loud! I was thinking of it moving sneakily through a tavern being destroyed by flames and not being seen by the dragon now haha 😆
One thing I wasn't clear on here, what's the risk of the Erosion DC? Do you fail if you miss the DC once? Or do you only fail if someone prevents you from continuing?
A LOT of great tips packed into one video! I totally agree with the incremental 5's system for regular DCs, BUT I still use a DC of 5 if a PC is trying to do something in combat that would normally be an auto success!
Bob World Builder thanks man! I usually only use DC 5 as funny or flavor things Because if a character “should be able” to do something out of combat since it’s like a character defining trait, I wouldn’t hate to make them feel awful / loose their core identity/ special thing that they are good at by asking for a roll that they know they could do, and fail... those have been awkward moments in the past where I have to describe how a character that should totally be able to do that... doesn’t... just has felt bad. That’s just my 2 cents, but I totally see combat being more difficult to do stuff in 👌🏼
I do tend to use a DC 5 ability check when I run my games due to how 5e is balanced. Since the numbers stay relatively close to each other due the 5e's bounded accuracy, even a 20th level character has a fair chance of failing a DC 5 check in a skill or ability they're not good at (unless they're a rogue grmbl grmbl...). Remember the sorcerer in your party who has a -1 on Wisdom (perception), they still have a 25% chance of failing a DC 5 skill check for that, which is pretty significant in my opinion. Now a caveat to this is that I: • Don't make players roll if there is no danger of failure, no matter the DC. No need to bring in the dice when there wouldn't be any consequences to rolling low. • Tend to call for a lot more pure ability checks so lower DCs stay relatively important throughout the game • Always try to have any failure fail forwards, meaning that them failing a DC 5 check doesn't halt the game, it just leaves room for something comedic and/or additional complications.
I use DCs by 5s as a base in ideal conditions and add one for any external variables (rain, chase, etc) so raining and being chased may be a DC12 for a rogue or 17 for a dwarf paladin in full plate
As a newer dm, I often find myself waiting to see the roll, then deciding a sort of fail/mixed success/success based on how close it is to an increment. For example, if they’re doing something that would have a dc of either 15 or 20, and you could make an argument for both, I’d treat a roll of 18 as a mixed success, like it happens but it takes longer, or breaks stealth, or causes a different roll.
My rule set: pick two identical dice, increasing the size of the dice based on how difficult I think the task is, then add a flat modifier to the result. Easy: 2d4 Moderate: 2d4+4 Challenging: 2d6+6 Difficult: 2d8+8 Master: 2d10+10 Impossible: 2d12+12.
DC 5: Anybody can do it. DC 10: Anybody can potentially do it. DC 15: You need to be particularly skilled in that task or have a big bunch o'luck DC 20: Even if you are skilled you need luck to succeed/ there is no guarantee of success. DC 25: You only have a realistic chance if you are a prodigy in your craft. DC 30: You need enormous skill and even then you most likely need luck to succeed. DC 35: You just accomplished a in a life time legendary task or have demigod like abilities.
Your revised DC chart makes more sense to me than the PHB. I agree - DC 20 is very hard! Imagine a level 5 character proficient in a skill with a +3 ability modifier (total +6) - they still need to roll a 14 to succeed, even though this is something a naturally talented, trained and reasonably experienced PC is attempting.
in the dc "5" senario, I've said to my player in it's place, "just don't roll a nat 1" and then had them roll. In the small handful of nat 1's that came from that, it's been funny, but most of the time they're fine. This works when i know they "Can" fail on a nat 1 (or even a 2 or three, but I limit it to a nat 1 for them)
I love these ideas! I recently gave all the members of my party horses for travel, but the barbarian has a negative animal handling, and has only once succeeded his check. The erosion DC gives me a great way to let him "work up to" being able to ride his horse over time. Almost like he's learning a new skill altogether! These are great! I already have implemented your skill challenge rules to great effect, I can't wait to use these!
TheDresdenForge gah!! What a great application of this DC I never thought about before!! DC 15... but every success brings it down by one or even brings it down by the differential! So cool!!
In general I don't favor the incremental method. It seems like since 3e, the game has tended towards big gaps in DC, and imo life is more subtle. Even if you're trying to simplify, I don't think this is the best area to do that. I do like the idea that each room has its own number, for DC, AC, Saves, whatever, just to keep it simpler. (Prof DM is big on this.) One good thing 3e did introduce, which has been forgotten it seems, is the Take 10/20 option for tasks that are low/no stress under good conditions. In other words, why roll when you can just take your time and do it right?
With the beam situation I homebrew: DC 15 +/1 for minor elements (wind, weather etc) +/-2 for dramatic situations (people shooting at you, running etc). Elements stack up: DC 15 +1 rain +1 strong wind +2 enemies chase you = DC 19I really hate the fixed DCs as they do not count in minor problems.
I think your DC scale holds up as long as you're testing a PC's strengths, when you have a single player in mind to accomplish a specialized task. However that scale changes (shifts down by five) when you're thinking about something anybody in the party could approach (perception checks, general knowledge checks, etc) or if you're testing weaknesses (save DCs). I like to do DC under 10 checks for failure recovery tests, to avoid the worst case scenarios. I find that I can get my players to attempt more difficult checks or riskier plays if I don't leave the degree of failure to a single roll. For example a rogue player fails to pickpocket a key off a guard. I'd make how much they rolled under the DC for a Charisma save to avoid combat with the guard. I usually describe the results after the second roll, as that gives me more to work with narratively. For instance if that Charisma save had a higher DC, meaning they really screwed up the pickpocket attempt, but the player rolled really well on the save. I'd tell the player that they actually dropped the key into a nearby bush during the attempt, but they managed to play it cool enough the guard didn't notice, so they may be able to come back for the key later. A fail forward situation. I use saves for recovery rolls unless the player comes up with a backup skill to use before they roll. As a rule they can't use the same skill to recover and, save or skill, it has to use a different attribute than the first roll. If another player is helping on the first roll they may also be the one to make the recovery roll, whoever has the best bonus rolls.
Erosion DCs look awesome. ICRPG has a system similar to this called effort. Essentially each task has its DC, but sometimes a task has a DC and the amount of Effort needed to complete the task. For these, the player rolls a d4-d12 after a successful check. This second roll plus mods is subtracted from the Effort needed. It’s basically AC and hit points but for any task the GM wants to make more important than one check. Love the channel. Peace!
Matt Smith HAHAHAHA You just “Peaced” me! That made me laugh lol! NICE!! That sounds like an awesome system, I think there’s so much to learn from other systems! Glad this was a good shot at it! Thanks Matt
Your homebrew DCs sound amazing. Sometimes mechanics inspire us to create scenes, and when we lack a mechanic that represents certain narrative obstacles we may not use them in our games. Those DC you've introduced cover situations that now DMs can come up with by just reading them.
If you change the DC scale, because you don't understand or agree with the designers DC scale, you just create a different problem. Still, an interesting set of ideas.
How to D&D o I am not “officially” changing it, that is just my outlook on things when I set DCs to try and give a “feel” for how I think. Definitely don’t want to cause confusion, because at the end of the day these words to describe them are subjective anyway 👌🏼
I have been trying to find a way to make more "cinematic" battles, and the erosion DC would be a perfect way to have awesome skill checks going on in the background. I'm definitely going to use this.
YES! Some big thing that’s happening during the battle that they can choose to spend actions or bonus actions on! Action = roll with ADV Bonus Action = normal roll Is what I did for him in this challenge
Your engagement is awesome for someone who's just starting out. It's because you're doing it right. Keep it up man. Btw if you haven't done it already start a patreon and have your top donators do one shots with you. Since your engagement is so high I promise you people will pay $25 or $50 to have you DM them. Good luck my dnd brother. Nm. You got this. Just saw you have at least 5 patreons paying you 100 bucks a month to have you DM. From what I can tell from your videos, they aren't paying enough!
Fure2 hahaha wow dude! Thank you so much for that! Was funny to read the first part then the second! I have been blown away by all the support! But for real I’m always open to feedback! Thanks again!
My philosophy on rpgs is changing. I used to be attracted to lots of homebrew to give the player more options and simulate stuff better. However I've read a book called XDM : Xtreme Dungeon Master, which is very funny but its thesis is this. The entire d20 system comes down to a single dc. All the proficincies, bonuses, ac, etc comes down to a roll of a d20 that needs to exceed a target number. The system they propose is that the dm just sets a dc based on what the player is trying to attempt, and their character concept and class. A level 2 paladin wants to cross a beam in heavy armour? DC 15. A level 5 acrobat? They can cartwheel across it if they want, no dc, as to them it would be simple. It just completely abstracts out the proficiencies! Seeing as the dm sets the dc, it kinda makes sense that they can also estimate the proficicies too! I love it. I much prefer your group dcs to help actions, which I never really liked.
I felt that extra rules gave freedom, but now I feel like extra rules actually limit player options. Rules light has way more things a player can do, just requires more trust in the dm I suppose. So siked for your Trantmonk collab! That guy knows his stuff.
Dom Minniti I have read that as well and LOVE IT! When I do “on the fly DMing” that’s how I do it, no proficiencies or modifiers just rolls that I abjucatebon the fly! It’s simple and still a Blast!!!
Found your channel a few days ago and I’m already taking so many notes, I’ve always wanted my own campaign to have some spice and pizazz to it but didn’t know where to start. These videos have already helped so much and are giving me the exact vibe I want for my players!! Thanks a ton coach!
Damn, you are fast becoming my favorite channel for straight to the point, specific, well researched and thought-out D&D advice. Thanks for your hard work, and thanks for respecting my time :)
Wow! That is EXACTLY what I’m going for! Thank you so much for that! That’s the goal! 👍🏼 A lot of people probably don’t realize how much research and time I put into it, so I appreciate that
Congratulations on the collab with Treantmonk; he's the OG master of DnD tips. I remember reading his guides back when I started playing DnD a decade ago, and I still watch his youtube videos whenever they're released. That's awesome, man.
Don't tell the other youtubers I said this, but... Hot Damn Coach! This is the most useful D&D video on the internet! I already use some weird DCs, like double DC, which are one check made to pass 2 separate DCs, but I am seriously going to use all your DC alternatives! Very inventive and I can see the game flow already. I cannot wait to try these out :)
haha YES! Cameron you have already been a great part of this community! I still remember your idea for the backstory of the pugilist and monk! I think I’m still small enough for them to not even know who I am yet lol so your safe! I am seriously so glad to be so helpful to you! That’s the goal!
I just saw your video half an hour or so ago and I loved the erosion mechanic. I decided to blend it into a boss battle I was planning for way down the line. But instead of an eroding DC, I made and eroding AC. Quick recap. The players have been treading on the toes of this evil, fire-necromancy nomadic warlord, and in their final battle to defeat him, they confront him in the middle of a ritual. In my world all the dragons are dead (because of an accidental off hand comment I said to one of my players). He is trying to summon the spirit of a dragon and put it inside himself to strengthen him. Now to the battle: My players are to walk in as the warlord plunches a dragon's tooth into the chest of a sacrificial NPC. He levitates 5 feet up and is consumed by furious fire blowing everything towards him - basically a firestorm(in game terms, to move away from him is just difficult terrain). His AC is then say 23(haven't decided - depends on my players level), and is then an erosionary AC. While this is going on, he auto-casts(dunno if that is a thing but now it is) "Dominate person" on his bandits that were there to help him with the sacrifice(again the number depends on the players level). Every bandit that is affected by this spell, is then almost possesed by fire. They are immune to fire damage and has firery eyes(he have already made them resistant to fire). The warlord can control a certain amount of his cronies at a time, and he can choose when they use their reaction. The only reaction they can take is "explode". The fire within them explodes outwards, bursting the hosting body and damages everyone in a 5 ft radius (dex saves are possible ofc.). Every turn a 1d4 will decide what kind of bandit will come next turn. 1=none and 4=the warlords guardsmen with other levels in between. When the warlord's firestorm-AC is reduced to 0, his outer shell explodes in a firery ball of what should have been death. He is now again a mere mortal. He takes an obcene amount of damage (rolled in front of the players for theatrical effect) but it is not over yet... The dex save will then also be a falling DC (3 less for each 5 feet from the warlord) to avoid the blast wave of fire emminating from the collapsing fire shell. As a mortal he can use his normal stat block (with the lost HP accounted for ofc) but he can no longer cause his bandits to explode. He can though walk into a fire and teleport out into another one on the battle field (with a recharge of 6 because it is mainly for the shock effect). Thanks alot for the inspiration man! It really laid the ground work for all my ideas to spring from!
Lauge Christophersen AHHHHHHHHHHHH THATS BAD ASS!!! I am blown away and love that you took inspiration from me and RAN with it! Haha seriously an EPIC battle mechanics there, you inspired me now lol
The system of 5s is a good, rough guideline, especially when improvising something, but I still like to tweak the numbers around to get each check just where I like it, difficulty-wise. Nothing wrong with having a DC13 this and a DC17 that.
An idea came to me when you were talking about erosion DCs. Perhaps if the roll was too low (say below 20 or 15), then the DC increased by the difference between that minimum result (so if you decided the roll had to be at least above a 20, and they rolled an 18, then the DC of 30 increases to 32). This would keep fighting an Erosion DC from becoming just a time sink, and instead, something with a chance of failure. In your example, by undoing the magic which kept the daughter in stasis, the chronomancer might be able to reverse time and keep her from dying, but might not be strong enough to stop time from progressing and resulting in her death.
Intelligence 14 Wisdom 2 ooooooooo YES!! Something that’s unstable and could go either way!? YES!!! They’d really have to come together for the roll and make it count!!
@@TheDungeonCoach just an addition to a great idea I can't wait to use. I have to say, this was one of the best DM guide videos I've had the pleasure to watch.
Ok, mate, these are AMAZING ideas for DCs. Specially the Cumulative and Erosion DCs. Those filled my mind with lots of ideas, and I want to use them in campaigns. I will be using those for sure. I don't use contested DCs, since Pathfinder 2 prefers to only have one side roll against a DC. So, for example, an Athletics check against a Reflex DC (dex save) to trip them in the ground. Or a Survival Check against a creature Survival DC to track them. Other great idea is the take 10 and take 20 ideas. Take 10, you spend more time making sure that you do your work well (you treat the check as if you rolled a 10 in the die) And take 20, you fail over and over again until you succeed (this includes critical failures). Like for example trying to climb a tree for several minutes until you get up there. Passive skills is also an idea I like a lot. It makes players feel competent at their role. But I consider how much pressure there is as well. High stakes make failures more likely. To your last point, I have being flirting with how Mouse Guard RPG handles failures: When you fail, the GM can either introduce a complication, or, say that you succeed but you now have a condition. They use "angry" or "hungry", or "fatigued" or "sick" as conditions. I still have to come up with a way to traslate this into our games, since those conditions don't mean the same in our systems.
Javier Morales MAN I love your perspective on these and I love that my content can still help you!! I love your take on the taking 10 and 20 and the failing system to actually add some mechanics to it!
Not that other d&d youtubers arnt great, but I enjoy your high energy and charisma. And you have some good ideas too. You seem like a natural for this. Keep the videos coming.
Ooh the cumulative DC has a lot of good potential in places where everyone wants to try the same skill check - searching a room, finding a trail, maybe even some kind of knowledge check where they talk through what they know together and figure something out? On failing forward: Storypath has a system for this that lets players decided how they fail. Additional 'complications' outside of total failure, add +1 or +2 to the difficulty, which the DM explains before the roll. (A base difficulty in the system is just 1, so complications make up most of the DC). If you don't roll high enough for all of them, you choose which ones to buy off. Maybe you're stealthily trying to climb through a broken window on the second floor, and you just barely miss the DC. So, in that moment when you where about to fall, did you grab the window shutter and make a bunch of noise? Or did you wrap your arm around the windowsill and cut yourself on broken glass?
Teanjel I LOVE the failing forward with succeeding at the task but introducing a new problem or damage taken (broken glass) that’s great!! And I love team collaboration talks lol
I have a scaling DC system for when my players want to "do as much as they can" eg. They want to carry large logs and there is a pile of 100. I set the DC to 15 to carry 3 but for every 3 higher they can carry another. So if the barbarian rolls a 24 he can carry 6 of them and the rogue who rolled a 10 can only carry 1.
Nice - your house rules manage to grant options & add immersion without undue complexity, and slot into existing rules without disrupting them. These particular suggestions provide a framework for setting DCs that adds excitement to the game, whilst actually making it easier to manage - well done! And the final comment re flexibility with an emphasis on storytelling is the icing on the cake. Genius video - required watching for all DMs.
DC 5 has a 20% chance of failure if you have no bonuses. That's reasonable for something easy but that could be reasonably failed. Like going fast across a foot wide plank of wood. I'd expect most people to succeed but some people would mess up.
Great tips even though I don't think walking the plank is DC 15. Most normal people can do that. (assuming plank can hold the weight :p). At least if there is no pressure from being chased. I would pick DC 10 if it had to be in increments of 5.
pallenda thanks man! I try and have all tips be usable regardless of the numbers selected! 👌🏼 I said 15 because - thin beam about the width of your foot, 2+ stories high (fear factor) 10 just seemed too simple for that, BUT I can totally see the logic for 10 too!
@@TheDungeonCoach :) It's all good. That's the cool thing about your tips, quickly get to the thought "hmm it's either 10 or 15", would be fast to than quickly after pick something in between if needed. I will for sure study more of your videos, there seems to be many great ideas. Cheers for the reply. :)
I consider that DC 20 is actually a good DC for the task. It is wood, not as strong as steel so it would bend and, unfortunately, it is not between a short distance and therefore, the piece of wood would be longer and less stable.
Calebo347 for sure! I totally see that! I also think it’s important that the DM accurately describes these scenarios well enough so that the players have a good feel of what the DC would be. The way that you describe that, I totally see 20 being perfect!
I think there is an emphasis on making DCs higher then they need to be. A 1st level elf rogue with expertise in acrobatics would only have a +7 (+4 from expertise and +3 from dexterity) assuming standard array or point buy. This means that even on a DC 10 they would fall 10% off the time. I think what separates a good DM from a great one is the extra stuff. The elf in light armor with a pair of daggers - fine, the 250 lbs half orc barbarian with a great sword goes plummeting as these beam breaks despite the fact that he rolled a 20. If the halfling fails by one maybe he gets an athletics check to grab the ledge as he accidentally shifted the board too much and it falls.
Harmon Ward I totally agree that this is an on the fly skill situationally fit to who makes the checks 👍🏼 I just hope conversations like this can help people with those!
Oh man these are sooooo good. Definitely going to work some of these in. I’ve actually done something like your cumulative DCs but I didn’t have a name for it. For certain kinds of physical skill checks, I also have a kind of reverse of your erosion DC. If there is a failure, the DC goes up by 2 for that PC. The idea is that if you’re trying repeatedly to lift something, you’re going to tire out. The DC resets after a short rest.
@@TheDungeonCoach I was thinking that a combo of that and your Erosion DC would be cool. If you succeed, the next DC is lower. If you fail, then the next DC goes up (not necessarily by how much you missed... that sounds too brutal). It sounds like a cool push/pull on the tension!
Stefan Podell for sure! I’ve even done one where it was good guys vs bad guys and each side could add to the total and pull it in each direction (I allowed for negative numbers)
I've done something similar to cumulative DC's where i just allow a player to add their proficiency bonus to the other players roll, i don't do it often but I have done it when I feel its better to give a set number rather than advantage for helping.
The Erosion DC is certainly intriguing. I'm interested if you could somehow use it in a custom Resurrection system as an alternative to Matt Mercer's. I like the Mercer Res-system, but this one sounds like a way to fight the clock if there was a limited time window for a Resurrection to go off
DM Shower Thoughts I can TOTALLY see that! A DC they need to bring down to 0 to bring them back. Or i can see a cumulative DC that the group needs a certain number for to work together to bring them back!
I know I'm a little late to this video, but dang this helps so much! I can't wait to have my party working together as a group-- Especially with the Erosion DC, that is so epic! Thanks DC!!
I came to this video hoping to find a "proper" method because I had defaulted to the method you suggested (10, 15, 20) and I was feeling bad about it. But now I feel validated with that method. Thank you!
I set the athletics DC for swimming 20 ft (1 m/s) to 15, 30 ft (1.5 m/s) to 20, 40 ft (2 m/s) to 30, and 50 ft (2.5 m/s) to 40. Every additional 5 ft adds 10 to the DC because the current WR over 50m is 2.4 m/s.
Eyy a sponsor at last! And a great one too - been using Table Fables to homeBREW some potions this week (🥁🥁🛎) Loved this vid. What I try and bear in mind for crafting DCs is that 21 is IMPOSSIBLE for us commoners, so I see anything above 15 as ruddy tough! I am wondering what would’ve happened if your Chronomancer had rolled a natty 1 straight off the bat though?!?! ☠️
combine the modifiers scores of two skills, make a list of 10 or more skill combos. The DC is the reciprocal of the modifier combos. Example Medicine + Nature = 10
I have a pact of the chain warlock with a sprite who likes to try and do weird things. Knowing how terrible it's strength score is, I have actually used a DC 5 check when it comes to the players sprite familiar to perform some actions.
Sengem Barom heck yea! It’s a big moment type of DC, to wear something down! I also saw your stream the other day (at least 10/20 min about flushing out the jobs/ farmlands etc! But I was on my phone and couldn’t log on!
Awesome DC rule setting. I tend to allow players do stuff too without check depending on their stats and class. And of course depending on time to do it. When you are on a hurry, you can't focus correctly. Any bright idea lowers the DC but I don't tell them. Just roll with it and describe the effect of their plan when they succeed. And you must tell how that lich encounter ended, I'm really curious. Awesome scenario !
Ernesto Figarella that finale is too epic to spoil!! I’ll have to save it for a big video reveal! 😆😘😇 (Teaser: the Druid Shapeshift into a radiant elemental that fuses together with the Paladin during the fight!) BUT I love that you just let things happen without rolls, it’s important to the characters identity!!
To your question about the beam walk it would depend on who is doing it. Rouge with a high dex + acro? maybe 10. Big barbarian with a low dex? maybe a 15-18 depending on how far the gap to cross it.
I made it to the 3:54 mark and even prior with the arbitrary DC example and set the DC to 18. My reason, as a former fan of balance beam walking, walking on a thin piece of wood designed for one foot in front of the other requires a lot of dexterity. Now, say you character is a rogue with high dex with leather armor. Maybe his DC for it would be lower. However, say the character is a goliath fighter in plate armor. His added weight would counter his dex, in a logical sense. He could not get across as easily. Now, add in that a beam that stretches 6 feet between buildings would be sturdier than one stretching 12 feet. Certainly it's not fair to punish a character for being less nimble nor one who is dexterous.
When you said a thing beam I was picturing something like a 1" pipe or taught cord between the two buildings. This to me would be a DC 20, for novice characters. It would go down a bit based on how much experience they have had with a particular skill.
A lot of this comes down to being aware of your PCs' stats. For example, my new campaign of 3 players, 2 of them rolled pretty underwhelming stats and there are many abilities between the 3 of them where a +1 is the highest bonus. So it would be stupid of me to set a DC 25 History check for something, because it's mathematically impossible for any of my players to roll a 25 History (unless they were guided or something I suppose) so for my party right now, a 25 should be "nearly impossible" (and just outright impossible in many cases) which would shift that whole grid the other way - 20 is very hard, 15 is hard, 10 is medium, and 5 is easy. This is what I'd probably leave until level 4 when they get an ASI and their PB goes up.
DC of 5 does work. Many hero’s have ‘0’ modifiers or negative modifiers meaning it’s still a 20% or higher chance of failure. Sure it’s easy and they SHOULD pass but when they don’t fun and interesting stuff can happen. So while I rarely use the easy DC I don’t agree it should be entirely dismissed out of hand.
Gareth Hamilton I use it for things that are meaningless/ for fun, and they know if I ask for the roll then you’d have to really screw up to fail here. But it’s a fringe case and not used for serious situation/ combat . I have before and it felt real bad when someone failed a check they were supposed to be good at. But I’d like you said a character with a negative mod tried it, I’d see a DC 5 there 👍🏼
There's no automatic failure on skill checks if you roll a 1. DC 5 checks are the things that are second nature to the skilled but novices could potentially mess up. A character with a +4 in a skill can't fail a DC 5, but an arrogant character with no bonus has 1/4 chance of it blowing up in their face.
Stephen Harris I personally rule a Nat 1 is a failure and at 20 is a success haha but that’s a WHOLE new topic and much more of a “hot topic” I love the hyperbolic feel of epic highs and lows but has to be handled correctly and too complex of a topic 😆 so I’ll save that for a later video, or live stream discussion
02:25 Well that depends. What's the distance between the buildings? 5ft? 10ft? 100ft? How thin is the beam? Finger? Arm? Thigh? Back? Is there crazy wind or inconsequential wind? What's the beam made off? Is the player exceptionally heavy? Light? Or are they an average? Can the beam even support them? You gave me non of the info whatsoever and usually when this kind of scene comes up you as the dm have almost all if not all of this in your mind already or on the way. But when I saw your beam well I'd have to agree with your dc. Originally I wanted to say 15, but then I started questioning all of the above and went to 20, maybe 23. Then I figured the scene probably wasn't as insane as I imagined so i brought it back to 16. Then I saw the beam and the dc and realized we were thinking of two similar but wary different scenes. So once I adjusted my imagination I'd have to agree 13 is probably right
content was great as always, however the lighting was off on this one I assume this was a result of the new lighting you got and trying to get used to it.
Arny you are 100% right! I changed my lighting and the aperture on the camera But didn’t realize until after I already filmed everything! Should be 100% better in next video lol
I prefer the increments set by, I think it was Dungeon Dudes, but it could have been The Web DM. It has increments of 3 rather than 5, so had more increments, but it also does what you have done and considers how difficult the task would be for a commoner, rather than a player.
Matthew Parker more options! I see it! 💜 Because at the end of the day I want to help people set a fair and balanced game, and be able to do it quickly 👍🏼
For easy checks (usually when my players find an unexpected easy solution) I just say "Roll for anything but a 1 to succeed". And, of course, that calls for someone to roll a 1.
DC14 - 12 if they was a Swashbuckler. Raining DC16 with Seaelf potentially getting 14-15 depending on their foot wear. 14 for Leather while heavy armor would be a 15. Walking on a thine bean would depend on the race and armor - Tabaxi in leather - 15 while a Tabaxi with Heavy armor would be require another check to see if the bean breaks
@@TheDungeonCoach Also one thing you didn't bring up was Backstory. Let's use a Drow Druid as example. She have live in Eotrus Forest for the past 200 years, guide travelers so they doesn't end up in the Feywild by mistake, hurt a Dryad tree etc. In that case I would allow her and her companions to just walk through the forest without require check (only Eotrus Forest) and make DC for her in Similiar forest something like 5 and the other if she are guiden them DC 10. I would also drop the sunlight sensetitive since it's reasonable to presume her eyes have adapted to sunlight (maybe say her Dark Vision is 90 ft) and in Eotrus give her advantage with Perception and Survival (consider maybe also given Nature and Animal handling in that forest)
Danny Kriegbaum Laursen O I totally agree and reference this at 14:57 in this video I could definitely say something about backstory specifically but that “specific power” is what I was referencing about keeping in mind WHO you are asking this check from. 👍🏼 And I love your example about characters overcoming flaws, perfect!!
What if in addition to erosion DC, there’s another method where the DC increases by half of how much they beat it by, like it gets harder over time, and they have to beat it a set number of times
You're probably more dexterous than your viewers, that's probably why you set the DC for that acrobatics check lower than most other people! ;) How would you handle that party stone moving situation if they fail? If nothing is stopping them from trying again, do they just succeed automatically? Or does it get stuck after the first try so another try is not even possible? It's really difficult to sometimes rule if/when a check can be made multiple times. Have you been using you own version of Chronomancy Wizard or did you find a good one from somewhere? There was one in the recent 5E book, but I'm very interested to hear which one you've used!
Rampe haha I guess I am pretty agile! (Kind of lol) That is a great question and should have totally been in the video! I’m once someone makes a check to do something (Str to brute force move it) someone can join in with them, ONE more person, or the main person can roll with ADV But after that they would have to describe something different that they’d have to come up with. But worst case scenario for the Boulder is yea they’d never get to the other side, unless they come back the next day if they were real determined! But as the DM you need to make sure not to put important plot points behind blockades
@@TheDungeonCoach What recommended list? The one you show the people on patreon and they can vote or is there a list I'm not aware of? I love all things related to time so I've been looking for a Chronomancer for a long time!
Rampe I have a recommended list I get with my top tier patrons with to choose from and out on the list, then the rest of the Wyrmlings and up vote on that list for what videos I make! 👍🏼
For the erosion dc, how many attempts would you allow and what happened if the wizard falls short on rolls, just unsuccessful for that attempt but keeps trying?
The beam is a 10 or 12. 50% chance of walking over the beam with no bonus. Characters who are note very dexterous would be harder. Characters who are very dexterous much easier.
boyfromoz7 we both have a pretty similar thought process, I probably added a bit more to get to 14 from the “fear factor” of the heights lol But I love your description!
What happens if you were to fail a check on an erosion DC? Like say after the first or success. You roll really low and after the + it short by like 4. Does it just take 1 turn longer. Does the DC go back up by the amount you failed by?
Jonathan F Whats SO COOL is the answer to that is YES, both of those can work and I’ve had it change based on what the style of mechanic I want, I do love when it increases though lol
oh big thing about DC, Tell your players what they are before they roll it. They should know you didn't lower or raise it form them. I love open information like this, Players feel so much less screwed over if they knew going into it what it was.
For the tightwalk, i said ten, I'm hesitent to kill a player if they fail something like that. I've had weird situations in previous games with literal rope bridges that our DM made everyone do a roll for because it swung around lol
Dylan Haire hahah bridge PTSD, I got ya. Also I only put it 20 ft in the air (so 2d6 damage if fall) and you can always set it at 15, and if they get a 10-14 they slip but catch themselves 👍🏼
I was also thinking 10 because while a literal tight-rope is extremely difficult, a regular structural beam that's sturdy and decently wide... I feel like the average person has a 50/50 shot at doing it. I have zero acrobatic training but I do silly stuff like walk along the parking bumpers in lots or on other stuff, and sometimes I lose my balance, but it's not that hard.
A DC 10 means anyone can do it sometimes. A DC 13 might be a challenge for a low-level thug but a master thief? A master thief should only need to roll a six to pick a DC 13 pocked with their +7. Sure the thug has to roll a 13 but they are untrained and should not be good at it. The thug should fail most of the time. Your example of walking across a beam between two builds is not something the average person could do. So back to our master thief (+7 acrobatics) and thug (no training Dex +0). So if 10 is easy the master thief again moves across the beam with 3 or higher but that thug chasing them needs to roll a 10 (50%) or higher with no other complications or difficulties. A 50% chance of success sounds pretty good for an untrained mook. So let's add some complications ... It's dark outside DC 15 (Mod) the Master thief needs to roll an 8 while our thug needs to roll a 15. and it starts to rain DC 20 (Hard) the master thief now needs to roll a 13 to pull off this trick but our thug has close to no chance with his nat 20. Now, what if it's raining, dark, and the guards are not giving them time to take that walk 20 feet the air. (A DC 25) Sure the Thug is going to fail. He is an untrained mook way in over his head. While our master thief is still under pressure with their roll of 18 or higher. So a DC 10 is easy for a skilled individual, not a low-level/ CR creature.
@@TheDungeonCoach to be fair I've not look at your video list. I just click a dnd video everyone in a while to try and increase my knowledge. I like yours for new stuff. But you do a lot of homebrew. I'm still trying to learn the basic rules to be a dm for dnd. Learning what checks to use for what. I use to play a lot of white wolf. Such as vampire the masquerade. I am subscribed. I'm pretty new to 5th edition anyways. I played a lot of advanced but that knowledge is very outdated. I have tons of resources that I can convert though. Just learning how. Do you have a video about changing advanced to 5th... like items from the encyclopedia magica?
@@TheDungeonCoach after implementing them at my table, usually about one a session for the last few weeks, my players just requested that they get to do them more often! They are the FUTURE!
dc to walk a thin beam. I am assuming its at some height. The distance wasnt given but even still thats at least a DC of 15 and probably closer to 20 but it also depends on class in my campaign. What is a piece of cake for a rogue halfling would be very hard for a half orc in full plate
How do YOU set DC's? Do you have any Homebrew Methods?
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Codex Anathema hahaha 💜
I feel like rain won't affect DC but be a advantage/disadvantage scenario there.
And erosion DC is similar as crafting worked in 3.5. Maybe you want to take a look at that.
I do a different method for cumulative DC's: first I set the prime DC and the player's choose a prime actor to led the check. The other players then attempt to assist against a help DC of the Prime - 10. So lets say the boulder is DC 25 so the DC to help is 15, the first roll is 17, then an assisting player rolls a 20 and the third a 12; that means the first assistant adds 5 to the 17 because he rolled 5 above the help DC, the third fails to meaningfully contribute but doesn't hurt either (except sometimes if the situation calls for it and roll is real low). With a total of 22 the boulder budges but isn't fully moved.
@@talesoffallenangels good point!!
For your "what skill should be used to hide an object" question at 9:25, these are the types of situations where I like to remind everyone that there is no such thing as a "Skill Check" in 5e. It is an Ability Check, which means you should look to the base ability scores first.
For this specific situation, hiding an object would not be Dexterity based because there's no one watching. Instead, it would be either Intelligence or Wisdom (to know where best to hide it). I would likely say Wisdom, as an awareness of where in the room is least obvious. After that, you can apply proficiency if you are proficient in Stealth, Investigation, or any other skill that you can argue will help. But it should never be a straight-up Dexterity (Stealth) check.
Nathaniel Soule this comment just made my day! That is SO WELL SAID!!! I could not agree more with everything you said! You broke it down so flawlessly that is EXACTLY the answer there!
Once you said “nobody is there to watch” for sure dexterity goes out the window! Man that was some good adjudication bro! For real!
But wouldn’t the dc be lower if the taverns being attacked because everyone would be panicking
Keaton Tiner HAHAHA! I never thought about it this way! literally laughed out loud!
I was thinking of it moving sneakily through a tavern being destroyed by flames and not being seen by the dragon now haha 😆
One thing I wasn't clear on here, what's the risk of the Erosion DC? Do you fail if you miss the DC once? Or do you only fail if someone prevents you from continuing?
I had the same question: What happen if you miss? Does it go back up? Stay there?
A LOT of great tips packed into one video! I totally agree with the incremental 5's system for regular DCs, BUT I still use a DC of 5 if a PC is trying to do something in combat that would normally be an auto success!
Bob World Builder thanks man!
I usually only use DC 5 as funny or flavor things
Because if a character “should be able” to do something out of combat since it’s like a character defining trait, I wouldn’t hate to make them feel awful / loose their core identity/ special thing that they are good at by asking for a roll that they know they could do, and fail... those have been awkward moments in the past where I have to describe how a character that should totally be able to do that... doesn’t... just has felt bad.
That’s just my 2 cents, but I totally see combat being more difficult to do stuff in 👌🏼
I do tend to use a DC 5 ability check when I run my games due to how 5e is balanced. Since the numbers stay relatively close to each other due the 5e's bounded accuracy, even a 20th level character has a fair chance of failing a DC 5 check in a skill or ability they're not good at (unless they're a rogue grmbl grmbl...). Remember the sorcerer in your party who has a -1 on Wisdom (perception), they still have a 25% chance of failing a DC 5 skill check for that, which is pretty significant in my opinion.
Now a caveat to this is that I:
• Don't make players roll if there is no danger of failure, no matter the DC. No need to bring in the dice when there wouldn't be any consequences to rolling low.
• Tend to call for a lot more pure ability checks so lower DCs stay relatively important throughout the game
• Always try to have any failure fail forwards, meaning that them failing a DC 5 check doesn't halt the game, it just leaves room for something comedic and/or additional complications.
Tavern Master Zeyv I agree with ALL THREE of those points and that is very well said!! You got a good DC head on your shoulders!!
I use DCs by 5s as a base in ideal conditions and add one for any external variables (rain, chase, etc) so raining and being chased may be a DC12 for a rogue or 17 for a dwarf paladin in full plate
As a newer dm, I often find myself waiting to see the roll, then deciding a sort of fail/mixed success/success based on how close it is to an increment. For example, if they’re doing something that would have a dc of either 15 or 20, and you could make an argument for both, I’d treat a roll of 18 as a mixed success, like it happens but it takes longer, or breaks stealth, or causes a different roll.
Exactly! That’s what I was meaning by failing forward! That’s a perfect way to do it!
I have done something similar when I couldn't think of a DC. I feel like I am biased towards the outcome I want. So I feel like I'm cheating :(
This is exactly what I do. Hard success / fail without "flavor" is kinda boring imo (unless the task itself is mundane).
My rule set: pick two identical dice, increasing the size of the dice based on how difficult I think the task is, then add a flat modifier to the result.
Easy: 2d4
Moderate: 2d4+4
Challenging: 2d6+6
Difficult: 2d8+8
Master: 2d10+10
Impossible: 2d12+12.
DC 5: Anybody can do it.
DC 10: Anybody can potentially do it.
DC 15: You need to be particularly skilled in that task or have a big bunch o'luck
DC 20: Even if you are skilled you need luck to succeed/ there is no guarantee of success.
DC 25: You only have a realistic chance if you are a prodigy in your craft.
DC 30: You need enormous skill and even then you most likely need luck to succeed.
DC 35: You just accomplished a in a life time legendary task or have demigod like abilities.
Your revised DC chart makes more sense to me than the PHB. I agree - DC 20 is very hard! Imagine a level 5 character proficient in a skill with a +3 ability modifier (total +6) - they still need to roll a 14 to succeed, even though this is something a naturally talented, trained and reasonably experienced PC is attempting.
Treantmonk's Temple were synced up again then bro! That’s exactly how I was thinking of it too!
in the dc "5" senario, I've said to my player in it's place, "just don't roll a nat 1" and then had them roll. In the small handful of nat 1's that came from that, it's been funny, but most of the time they're fine. This works when i know they "Can" fail on a nat 1 (or even a 2 or three, but I limit it to a nat 1 for them)
GunnarWahl YES! I should have added that moment in there! I do the SAME thing! I literally said “don’t roll a nat 1” haha!
I love these ideas! I recently gave all the members of my party horses for travel, but the barbarian has a negative animal handling, and has only once succeeded his check. The erosion DC gives me a great way to let him "work up to" being able to ride his horse over time. Almost like he's learning a new skill altogether! These are great! I already have implemented your skill challenge rules to great effect, I can't wait to use these!
TheDresdenForge gah!! What a great application of this DC I never thought about before!! DC 15... but every success brings it down by one or even brings it down by the differential! So cool!!
In general I don't favor the incremental method. It seems like since 3e, the game has tended towards big gaps in DC, and imo life is more subtle. Even if you're trying to simplify, I don't think this is the best area to do that. I do like the idea that each room has its own number, for DC, AC, Saves, whatever, just to keep it simpler. (Prof DM is big on this.) One good thing 3e did introduce, which has been forgotten it seems, is the Take 10/20 option for tasks that are low/no stress under good conditions. In other words, why roll when you can just take your time and do it right?
With the beam situation I homebrew: DC 15 +/1 for minor elements (wind, weather etc) +/-2 for dramatic situations (people shooting at you, running etc). Elements stack up: DC 15 +1 rain +1 strong wind +2 enemies chase you = DC 19I really hate the fixed DCs as they do not count in minor problems.
I think your DC scale holds up as long as you're testing a PC's strengths, when you have a single player in mind to accomplish a specialized task. However that scale changes (shifts down by five) when you're thinking about something anybody in the party could approach (perception checks, general knowledge checks, etc) or if you're testing weaknesses (save DCs).
I like to do DC under 10 checks for failure recovery tests, to avoid the worst case scenarios. I find that I can get my players to attempt more difficult checks or riskier plays if I don't leave the degree of failure to a single roll.
For example a rogue player fails to pickpocket a key off a guard. I'd make how much they rolled under the DC for a Charisma save to avoid combat with the guard. I usually describe the results after the second roll, as that gives me more to work with narratively. For instance if that Charisma save had a higher DC, meaning they really screwed up the pickpocket attempt, but the player rolled really well on the save. I'd tell the player that they actually dropped the key into a nearby bush during the attempt, but they managed to play it cool enough the guard didn't notice, so they may be able to come back for the key later. A fail forward situation.
I use saves for recovery rolls unless the player comes up with a backup skill to use before they roll. As a rule they can't use the same skill to recover and, save or skill, it has to use a different attribute than the first roll. If another player is helping on the first roll they may also be the one to make the recovery roll, whoever has the best bonus rolls.
Erosion DCs look awesome. ICRPG has a system similar to this called effort.
Essentially each task has its DC, but sometimes a task has a DC and the amount of Effort needed to complete the task. For these, the player rolls a d4-d12 after a successful check. This second roll plus mods is subtracted from the Effort needed.
It’s basically AC and hit points but for any task the GM wants to make more important than one check.
Love the channel.
Peace!
Matt Smith HAHAHAHA You just “Peaced” me! That made me laugh lol! NICE!!
That sounds like an awesome system, I think there’s so much to learn from other systems! Glad this was a good shot at it! Thanks Matt
Your homebrew DCs sound amazing. Sometimes mechanics inspire us to create scenes, and when we lack a mechanic that represents certain narrative obstacles we may not use them in our games. Those DC you've introduced cover situations that now DMs can come up with by just reading them.
Miguel Rebollo awesome! That’s what I’m trying to do here! Make DMs lives easier!
If you change the DC scale, because you don't understand or agree with the designers DC scale, you just create a different problem. Still, an interesting set of ideas.
How to D&D o I am not “officially” changing it, that is just my outlook on things when I set DCs to try and give a “feel” for how I think. Definitely don’t want to cause confusion, because at the end of the day these words to describe them are subjective anyway 👌🏼
@@TheDungeonCoach Yep. I see you applied some older mechanics to DC's which was very interesting.
I have been trying to find a way to make more "cinematic" battles, and the erosion DC would be a perfect way to have awesome skill checks going on in the background. I'm definitely going to use this.
YES! Some big thing that’s happening during the battle that they can choose to spend actions or bonus actions on!
Action = roll with ADV
Bonus Action = normal roll
Is what I did for him in this challenge
Your engagement is awesome for someone who's just starting out. It's because you're doing it right. Keep it up man. Btw if you haven't done it already start a patreon and have your top donators do one shots with you. Since your engagement is so high I promise you people will pay $25 or $50 to have you DM them. Good luck my dnd brother.
Nm. You got this. Just saw you have at least 5 patreons paying you 100 bucks a month to have you DM. From what I can tell from your videos, they aren't paying enough!
Fure2 hahaha wow dude! Thank you so much for that! Was funny to read the first part then the second! I have been blown away by all the support! But for real I’m always open to feedback! Thanks again!
@@TheDungeonCoach np. Like I said you got this. Just keep going.
My philosophy on rpgs is changing. I used to be attracted to lots of homebrew to give the player more options and simulate stuff better. However I've read a book called XDM : Xtreme Dungeon Master, which is very funny but its thesis is this. The entire d20 system comes down to a single dc. All the proficincies, bonuses, ac, etc comes down to a roll of a d20 that needs to exceed a target number. The system they propose is that the dm just sets a dc based on what the player is trying to attempt, and their character concept and class. A level 2 paladin wants to cross a beam in heavy armour? DC 15. A level 5 acrobat? They can cartwheel across it if they want, no dc, as to them it would be simple. It just completely abstracts out the proficiencies! Seeing as the dm sets the dc, it kinda makes sense that they can also estimate the proficicies too! I love it.
I much prefer your group dcs to help actions, which I never really liked.
I felt that extra rules gave freedom, but now I feel like extra rules actually limit player options. Rules light has way more things a player can do, just requires more trust in the dm I suppose. So siked for your Trantmonk collab! That guy knows his stuff.
Dom Minniti I have read that as well and LOVE IT! When I do “on the fly DMing” that’s how I do it, no proficiencies or modifiers just rolls that I abjucatebon the fly! It’s simple and still a Blast!!!
Found your channel a few days ago and I’m already taking so many notes, I’ve always wanted my own campaign to have some spice and pizazz to it but didn’t know where to start. These videos have already helped so much and are giving me the exact vibe I want for my players!! Thanks a ton coach!
James Echevarria that’s exactly why I’m making these!! Thanks so much for that! It’s all about finding the right vibe at YOUR table! Love it!
The contest DC is actually reflected a bit in XGE. When setting traps, the DC is based on your roll when making the trap.
Daniel Turner ooooooo I think I remember that now! Dang, totally forgot about that!
Damn, you are fast becoming my favorite channel for straight to the point, specific, well researched and thought-out D&D advice. Thanks for your hard work, and thanks for respecting my time :)
Wow! That is EXACTLY what I’m going for! Thank you so much for that! That’s the goal! 👍🏼
A lot of people probably don’t realize how much research and time I put into it, so I appreciate that
Congratulations on the collab with Treantmonk; he's the OG master of DnD tips. I remember reading his guides back when I started playing DnD a decade ago, and I still watch his youtube videos whenever they're released. That's awesome, man.
I’ve watched his stuff for a while now too! And after talking with him, he’s such a cool dude!!
Don't tell the other youtubers I said this, but... Hot Damn Coach! This is the most useful D&D video on the internet! I already use some weird DCs, like double DC, which are one check made to pass 2 separate DCs, but I am seriously going to use all your DC alternatives! Very inventive and I can see the game flow already. I cannot wait to try these out :)
haha YES! Cameron you have already been a great part of this community! I still remember your idea for the backstory of the pugilist and monk!
I think I’m still small enough for them to not even know who I am yet lol so your safe!
I am seriously so glad to be so helpful to you! That’s the goal!
I just saw your video half an hour or so ago and I loved the erosion mechanic. I decided to blend it into a boss battle I was planning for way down the line. But instead of an eroding DC, I made and eroding AC.
Quick recap. The players have been treading on the toes of this evil, fire-necromancy nomadic warlord, and in their final battle to defeat him, they confront him in the middle of a ritual.
In my world all the dragons are dead (because of an accidental off hand comment I said to one of my players). He is trying to summon the spirit of a dragon and put it inside himself to strengthen him.
Now to the battle:
My players are to walk in as the warlord plunches a dragon's tooth into the chest of a sacrificial NPC. He levitates 5 feet up and is consumed by furious fire blowing everything towards him - basically a firestorm(in game terms, to move away from him is just difficult terrain). His AC is then say 23(haven't decided - depends on my players level), and is then an erosionary AC. While this is going on, he auto-casts(dunno if that is a thing but now it is) "Dominate person" on his bandits that were there to help him with the sacrifice(again the number depends on the players level). Every bandit that is affected by this spell, is then almost possesed by fire. They are immune to fire damage and has firery eyes(he have already made them resistant to fire). The warlord can control a certain amount of his cronies at a time, and he can choose when they use their reaction. The only reaction they can take is "explode". The fire within them explodes outwards, bursting the hosting body and damages everyone in a 5 ft radius (dex saves are possible ofc.). Every turn a 1d4 will decide what kind of bandit will come next turn. 1=none and 4=the warlords guardsmen with other levels in between.
When the warlord's firestorm-AC is reduced to 0, his outer shell explodes in a firery ball of what should have been death. He is now again a mere mortal. He takes an obcene amount of damage (rolled in front of the players for theatrical effect) but it is not over yet...
The dex save will then also be a falling DC (3 less for each 5 feet from the warlord) to avoid the blast wave of fire emminating from the collapsing fire shell. As a mortal he can use his normal stat block (with the lost HP accounted for ofc) but he can no longer cause his bandits to explode. He can though walk into a fire and teleport out into another one on the battle field (with a recharge of 6 because it is mainly for the shock effect).
Thanks alot for the inspiration man! It really laid the ground work for all my ideas to spring from!
Lauge Christophersen AHHHHHHHHHHHH THATS BAD ASS!!! I am blown away and love that you took inspiration from me and RAN with it! Haha seriously an EPIC battle mechanics there, you inspired me now lol
The system of 5s is a good, rough guideline, especially when improvising something, but I still like to tweak the numbers around to get each check just where I like it, difficulty-wise. Nothing wrong with having a DC13 this and a DC17 that.
An idea came to me when you were talking about erosion DCs. Perhaps if the roll was too low (say below 20 or 15), then the DC increased by the difference between that minimum result (so if you decided the roll had to be at least above a 20, and they rolled an 18, then the DC of 30 increases to 32). This would keep fighting an Erosion DC from becoming just a time sink, and instead, something with a chance of failure. In your example, by undoing the magic which kept the daughter in stasis, the chronomancer might be able to reverse time and keep her from dying, but might not be strong enough to stop time from progressing and resulting in her death.
Intelligence 14 Wisdom 2 ooooooooo YES!!
Something that’s unstable and could go either way!? YES!!!
They’d really have to come together for the roll and make it count!!
@@TheDungeonCoach just an addition to a great idea I can't wait to use. I have to say, this was one of the best DM guide videos I've had the pleasure to watch.
Intelligence 14 Wisdom 2 wow thanks man! I had so much fun making it! I don’t see anyone make videos like this... so I’ll keep em coming!
Ok, mate, these are AMAZING ideas for DCs. Specially the Cumulative and Erosion DCs. Those filled my mind with lots of ideas, and I want to use them in campaigns. I will be using those for sure.
I don't use contested DCs, since Pathfinder 2 prefers to only have one side roll against a DC. So, for example, an Athletics check against a Reflex DC (dex save) to trip them in the ground. Or a Survival Check against a creature Survival DC to track them.
Other great idea is the take 10 and take 20 ideas. Take 10, you spend more time making sure that you do your work well (you treat the check as if you rolled a 10 in the die) And take 20, you fail over and over again until you succeed (this includes critical failures). Like for example trying to climb a tree for several minutes until you get up there. Passive skills is also an idea I like a lot. It makes players feel competent at their role. But I consider how much pressure there is as well. High stakes make failures more likely.
To your last point, I have being flirting with how Mouse Guard RPG handles failures: When you fail, the GM can either introduce a complication, or, say that you succeed but you now have a condition. They use "angry" or "hungry", or "fatigued" or "sick" as conditions. I still have to come up with a way to traslate this into our games, since those conditions don't mean the same in our systems.
Javier Morales MAN I love your perspective on these and I love that my content can still help you!! I love your take on the taking 10 and 20 and the failing system to actually add some mechanics to it!
Not that other d&d youtubers arnt great, but I enjoy your high energy and charisma. And you have some good ideas too. You seem like a natural for this. Keep the videos coming.
Wobbly Bobbly thank you so much! Yea I do have a little different style (always been that way IRL too lol) I’ll keep em comin for ya!!
Ooh the cumulative DC has a lot of good potential in places where everyone wants to try the same skill check - searching a room, finding a trail, maybe even some kind of knowledge check where they talk through what they know together and figure something out?
On failing forward: Storypath has a system for this that lets players decided how they fail. Additional 'complications' outside of total failure, add +1 or +2 to the difficulty, which the DM explains before the roll. (A base difficulty in the system is just 1, so complications make up most of the DC). If you don't roll high enough for all of them, you choose which ones to buy off.
Maybe you're stealthily trying to climb through a broken window on the second floor, and you just barely miss the DC. So, in that moment when you where about to fall, did you grab the window shutter and make a bunch of noise? Or did you wrap your arm around the windowsill and cut yourself on broken glass?
Teanjel I LOVE the failing forward with succeeding at the task but introducing a new problem or damage taken (broken glass) that’s great!!
And I love team collaboration talks lol
I have a scaling DC system for when my players want to "do as much as they can" eg. They want to carry large logs and there is a pile of 100. I set the DC to 15 to carry 3 but for every 3 higher they can carry another. So if the barbarian rolls a 24 he can carry 6 of them and the rogue who rolled a 10 can only carry 1.
Caleb hall YES!!! I should have put that in the video! That’s a GREAT thing to do!
Nice - your house rules manage to grant options & add immersion without undue complexity, and slot into existing rules without disrupting them. These particular suggestions provide a framework for setting DCs that adds excitement to the game, whilst actually making it easier to manage - well done! And the final comment re flexibility with an emphasis on storytelling is the icing on the cake. Genius video - required watching for all DMs.
This has quickly become one of my favorite D&D channels. Thanks for the video
chummer2060 daaaang thanks! It always crazy to hear people say that! I appreciate it! I’m still grinding haha
Been playing and dming/creating for over 30 years and these tips are some of the best. DC is very impressive.
As someone who hasn't played since AD&D, I cannot describe how useful your channel is!
DC 5 has a 20% chance of failure if you have no bonuses. That's reasonable for something easy but that could be reasonably failed. Like going fast across a foot wide plank of wood. I'd expect most people to succeed but some people would mess up.
Great tips even though I don't think walking the plank is DC 15. Most normal people can do that. (assuming plank can hold the weight :p). At least if there is no pressure from being chased. I would pick DC 10 if it had to be in increments of 5.
pallenda thanks man! I try and have all tips be usable regardless of the numbers selected! 👌🏼
I said 15 because
- thin beam about the width of your foot, 2+ stories high (fear factor)
10 just seemed too simple for that, BUT I can totally see the logic for 10 too!
@@TheDungeonCoach :) It's all good. That's the cool thing about your tips, quickly get to the thought "hmm it's either 10 or 15", would be fast to than quickly after pick something in between if needed. I will for sure study more of your videos, there seems to be many great ideas. Cheers for the reply. :)
I consider that DC 20 is actually a good DC for the task.
It is wood, not as strong as steel so it would bend and, unfortunately, it is not between a short distance and therefore, the piece of wood would be longer and less stable.
Calebo347 for sure! I totally see that! I also think it’s important that the DM accurately describes these scenarios well enough so that the players have a good feel of what the DC would be. The way that you describe that, I totally see 20 being perfect!
I think there is an emphasis on making DCs higher then they need to be. A 1st level elf rogue with expertise in acrobatics would only have a +7 (+4 from expertise and +3 from dexterity) assuming standard array or point buy. This means that even on a DC 10 they would fall 10% off the time.
I think what separates a good DM from a great one is the extra stuff.
The elf in light armor with a pair of daggers - fine, the 250 lbs half orc barbarian with a great sword goes plummeting as these beam breaks despite the fact that he rolled a 20.
If the halfling fails by one maybe he gets an athletics check to grab the ledge as he accidentally shifted the board too much and it falls.
Harmon Ward I totally agree that this is an on the fly skill situationally fit to who makes the checks 👍🏼
I just hope conversations like this can help people with those!
Thanks for doing what you do!
You've helped me through a lot of the anxiety I have as a DM. Can't wait to apply all of these in game!
That makes my day man! That’s what I want to do! Make DMing exciting instead of scary! Fun instead of overwhelming!!
Oh man these are sooooo good. Definitely going to work some of these in. I’ve actually done something like your cumulative DCs but I didn’t have a name for it.
For certain kinds of physical skill checks, I also have a kind of reverse of your erosion DC. If there is a failure, the DC goes up by 2 for that PC. The idea is that if you’re trying repeatedly to lift something, you’re going to tire out. The DC resets after a short rest.
Stefan Podell ooooo I for sure do that too! I should have put that in this video!!! Good call
@@TheDungeonCoach I was thinking that a combo of that and your Erosion DC would be cool. If you succeed, the next DC is lower. If you fail, then the next DC goes up (not necessarily by how much you missed... that sounds too brutal). It sounds like a cool push/pull on the tension!
Stefan Podell for sure! I’ve even done one where it was good guys vs bad guys and each side could add to the total and pull it in each direction (I allowed for negative numbers)
I've done something similar to cumulative DC's where i just allow a player to add their proficiency bonus to the other players roll, i don't do it often but I have done it when I feel its better to give a set number rather than advantage for helping.
The Erosion DC is certainly intriguing. I'm interested if you could somehow use it in a custom Resurrection system as an alternative to Matt Mercer's. I like the Mercer Res-system, but this one sounds like a way to fight the clock if there was a limited time window for a Resurrection to go off
DM Shower Thoughts I can TOTALLY see that! A DC they need to bring down to 0 to bring them back. Or i can see a cumulative DC that the group needs a certain number for to work together to bring them back!
I know I'm a little late to this video, but dang this helps so much! I can't wait to have my party working together as a group-- Especially with the Erosion DC, that is so epic! Thanks DC!!
Kaiseraihn hahah no worries! Glad ya found it and it helped ya! 👌🏼
I came to this video hoping to find a "proper" method because I had defaulted to the method you suggested (10, 15, 20) and I was feeling bad about it. But now I feel validated with that method. Thank you!
I set the athletics DC for swimming 20 ft (1 m/s) to 15, 30 ft (1.5 m/s) to 20, 40 ft (2 m/s) to 30, and 50 ft (2.5 m/s) to 40. Every additional 5 ft adds 10 to the DC because the current WR over 50m is 2.4 m/s.
Eyy a sponsor at last! And a great one too - been using Table Fables to homeBREW some potions this week (🥁🥁🛎)
Loved this vid. What I try and bear in mind for crafting DCs is that 21 is IMPOSSIBLE for us commoners, so I see anything above 15 as ruddy tough! I am wondering what would’ve happened if your Chronomancer had rolled a natty 1 straight off the bat though?!?! ☠️
Fushi Con Hahahaha ooooo he could be frozen in time with her forever!!?!?
And yes!! I use those books all the time too! Working on the video now!
"There are two schools of thought here" *holds up four fingers* :P
Hahah. Another great vid, DC. :)
Hahahah I didn’t think about the other hand!! DRATS!!! I gotta re-shoot the whole thing!! 😆
combine the modifiers scores of two skills, make a list of 10 or more skill combos. The DC is the reciprocal of the modifier combos. Example Medicine + Nature = 10
Cheers DC, love the failing forward mechanic, works really well in 1:1 games and builds great tension into the game.
totsytaylor oooo I could definitely see that being big in 1:1! Good call
I have a pact of the chain warlock with a sprite who likes to try and do weird things. Knowing how terrible it's strength score is, I have actually used a DC 5 check when it comes to the players sprite familiar to perform some actions.
Kevin willis and THAT is a perfect example of when I would totally use DC 5 checks too, especially if that modifier is really negative!
awesome video, love the different kind of DCs....will definitely consider using an erosion DC in one of my campaigns.
Sengem Barom heck yea! It’s a big moment type of DC, to wear something down!
I also saw your stream the other day (at least 10/20 min about flushing out the jobs/ farmlands etc! But I was on my phone and couldn’t log on!
I would base concealing an item on Sleight of Hand, since the rules indicate that as an example of what to do with SoH, IIRC
These are all great! I really love Cumulative DCs. I'm going to try that with Group Stealth checks and other contested checks.
Awesome DC rule setting. I tend to allow players do stuff too without check depending on their stats and class. And of course depending on time to do it. When you are on a hurry, you can't focus correctly. Any bright idea lowers the DC but I don't tell them. Just roll with it and describe the effect of their plan when they succeed. And you must tell how that lich encounter ended, I'm really curious. Awesome scenario !
Ernesto Figarella that finale is too epic to spoil!! I’ll have to save it for a big video reveal! 😆😘😇
(Teaser: the Druid Shapeshift into a radiant elemental that fuses together with the Paladin during the fight!)
BUT I love that you just let things happen without rolls, it’s important to the characters identity!!
Thanks Coach! Great advice here and I'm super looking forward to using DC erosion for my next boss battle.
Devin Sloane YEEEESSSSSS! I’m excited for you, comment back and let me know how it goes!!
To your question about the beam walk it would depend on who is doing it. Rouge with a high dex + acro? maybe 10. Big barbarian with a low dex? maybe a 15-18 depending on how far the gap to cross it.
I made it to the 3:54 mark and even prior with the arbitrary DC example and set the DC to 18. My reason, as a former fan of balance beam walking, walking on a thin piece of wood designed for one foot in front of the other requires a lot of dexterity. Now, say you character is a rogue with high dex with leather armor. Maybe his DC for it would be lower. However, say the character is a goliath fighter in plate armor. His added weight would counter his dex, in a logical sense. He could not get across as easily. Now, add in that a beam that stretches 6 feet between buildings would be sturdier than one stretching 12 feet. Certainly it's not fair to punish a character for being less nimble nor one who is dexterous.
Awesome, I'm glad I found my way to your content and materials.
When you said a thing beam I was picturing something like a 1" pipe or taught cord between the two buildings. This to me would be a DC 20, for novice characters. It would go down a bit based on how much experience they have had with a particular skill.
Cynthia Shipley for THAT I’d totally agree! I should have been more clear with my description!
6:42 - you forgot to add the card for the video you are pointing to ;)
A lot of this comes down to being aware of your PCs' stats. For example, my new campaign of 3 players, 2 of them rolled pretty underwhelming stats and there are many abilities between the 3 of them where a +1 is the highest bonus. So it would be stupid of me to set a DC 25 History check for something, because it's mathematically impossible for any of my players to roll a 25 History (unless they were guided or something I suppose) so for my party right now, a 25 should be "nearly impossible" (and just outright impossible in many cases) which would shift that whole grid the other way - 20 is very hard, 15 is hard, 10 is medium, and 5 is easy. This is what I'd probably leave until level 4 when they get an ASI and their PB goes up.
DC of 5 does work. Many hero’s have ‘0’ modifiers or negative modifiers meaning it’s still a 20% or higher chance of failure. Sure it’s easy and they SHOULD pass but when they don’t fun and interesting stuff can happen. So while I rarely use the easy DC I don’t agree it should be entirely dismissed out of hand.
Gareth Hamilton I use it for things that are meaningless/ for fun, and they know if I ask for the roll then you’d have to really screw up to fail here. But it’s a fringe case and not used for serious situation/ combat . I have before and it felt real bad when someone failed a check they were supposed to be good at. But I’d like you said a character with a negative mod tried it, I’d see a DC 5 there 👍🏼
Great video 👍 very informative keep up the great content
Farrell Williams III thank you for the comment and the support!
Tug of war. Contest DC. Your perception vs. Enemy stealth.
Thanks for another great video, Coach!
Time Lair thanks for taking the time to tell me that! I really do appreciate it!
There's no automatic failure on skill checks if you roll a 1. DC 5 checks are the things that are second nature to the skilled but novices could potentially mess up. A character with a +4 in a skill can't fail a DC 5, but an arrogant character with no bonus has 1/4 chance of it blowing up in their face.
Stephen Harris I personally rule a Nat 1 is a failure and at 20 is a success haha but that’s a WHOLE new topic and much more of a “hot topic”
I love the hyperbolic feel of epic highs and lows but has to be handled correctly and too complex of a topic 😆 so I’ll save that for a later video, or live stream discussion
I ended up finding this video early. Good stuff as usual.
Indominus Olympus haha thanks man! I usually have them up but hidden... until the right moment 😈
02:25 Well that depends.
What's the distance between the buildings? 5ft? 10ft? 100ft? How thin is the beam? Finger? Arm? Thigh? Back?
Is there crazy wind or inconsequential wind?
What's the beam made off?
Is the player exceptionally heavy? Light? Or are they an average?
Can the beam even support them?
You gave me non of the info whatsoever and usually when this kind of scene comes up you as the dm have almost all if not all of this in your mind already or on the way.
But when I saw your beam well I'd have to agree with your dc. Originally I wanted to say 15, but then I started questioning all of the above and went to 20, maybe 23. Then I figured the scene probably wasn't as insane as I imagined so i brought it back to 16.
Then I saw the beam and the dc and realized we were thinking of two similar but wary different scenes. So once I adjusted my imagination I'd have to agree 13 is probably right
Excellent video!
Joaquin Llamazares thank you!! This one was a really fun on to make!
content was great as always, however the lighting was off on this one I assume this was a result of the new lighting you got and trying to get used to it.
Arny you are 100% right! I changed my lighting and the aperture on the camera
But didn’t realize until after I already filmed everything! Should be 100% better in next video lol
What is a Spell Check? Is that like Arcana? Or is it like a roll with your proficiency plus your spell casting ability modifier?
I prefer the increments set by, I think it was Dungeon Dudes, but it could have been The Web DM. It has increments of 3 rather than 5, so had more increments, but it also does what you have done and considers how difficult the task would be for a commoner, rather than a player.
Matthew Parker more options! I see it! 💜
Because at the end of the day I want to help people set a fair and balanced game, and be able to do it quickly 👍🏼
For easy checks (usually when my players find an unexpected easy solution) I just say "Roll for anything but a 1 to succeed". And, of course, that calls for someone to roll a 1.
DC14 - 12 if they was a Swashbuckler.
Raining DC16 with Seaelf potentially getting 14-15 depending on their foot wear. 14 for Leather while heavy armor would be a 15.
Walking on a thine bean would depend on the race and armor - Tabaxi in leather - 15 while a Tabaxi with Heavy armor would be require another check to see if the bean breaks
Danny Kriegbaum Laursen I love your specifics, very fine tuned! 👍🏼
@@TheDungeonCoach Also one thing you didn't bring up was Backstory.
Let's use a Drow Druid as example.
She have live in Eotrus Forest for the past 200 years, guide travelers so they doesn't end up in the Feywild by mistake, hurt a Dryad tree etc.
In that case I would allow her and her companions to just walk through the forest without require check (only Eotrus Forest) and make DC for her in Similiar forest something like 5 and the other if she are guiden them DC 10.
I would also drop the sunlight sensetitive since it's reasonable to presume her eyes have adapted to sunlight (maybe say her Dark Vision is 90 ft) and in Eotrus give her advantage with Perception and Survival (consider maybe also given Nature and Animal handling in that forest)
Danny Kriegbaum Laursen O I totally agree and reference this at 14:57 in this video
I could definitely say something about backstory specifically but that “specific power” is what I was referencing about keeping in mind WHO you are asking this check from. 👍🏼
And I love your example about characters overcoming flaws, perfect!!
What if in addition to erosion DC, there’s another method where the DC increases by half of how much they beat it by, like it gets harder over time, and they have to beat it a set number of times
Evan White OOOOOOOOOO I have never thought of that!! That’s so good!! I couldn’t definitely think of times where that would come into play!
Argggh! 389 - so close. I really wish I had friends so I could recommend this channel.
blakscot haha same here! I appreciate the thought! Haha I’m putting it on my recommended list for next months voting!
Link right here!
(Points to thin air)
Great video though. Super helpful!
Zack Wheeler o no!! What part?? I thought I had all my cards in there! I’ll have to check when I get my laptop lol
Zack Wheeler thanks for the heads up!
You're probably more dexterous than your viewers, that's probably why you set the DC for that acrobatics check lower than most other people! ;)
How would you handle that party stone moving situation if they fail? If nothing is stopping them from trying again, do they just succeed automatically? Or does it get stuck after the first try so another try is not even possible? It's really difficult to sometimes rule if/when a check can be made multiple times.
Have you been using you own version of Chronomancy Wizard or did you find a good one from somewhere? There was one in the recent 5E book, but I'm very interested to hear which one you've used!
Rampe haha I guess I am pretty agile! (Kind of lol)
That is a great question and should have totally been in the video!
I’m once someone makes a check to do something (Str to brute force move it) someone can join in with them, ONE more person, or the main person can roll with ADV
But after that they would have to describe something different that they’d have to come up with. But worst case scenario for the Boulder is yea they’d never get to the other side, unless they come back the next day if they were real determined!
But as the DM you need to make sure not to put important plot points behind blockades
Rampe and yea it’s a Homebrew Wizard subclass that I’ve made with the player, I’ll put that in the recommended list
@@TheDungeonCoach What recommended list? The one you show the people on patreon and they can vote or is there a list I'm not aware of? I love all things related to time so I've been looking for a Chronomancer for a long time!
Rampe I have a recommended list I get with my top tier patrons with to choose from and out on the list, then the rest of the Wyrmlings and up vote on that list for what videos I make! 👍🏼
For the erosion dc, how many attempts would you allow and what happened if the wizard falls short on rolls, just unsuccessful for that attempt but keeps trying?
The beam is a 10 or 12. 50% chance of walking over the beam with no bonus. Characters who are note very dexterous would be harder. Characters who are very dexterous much easier.
boyfromoz7 we both have a pretty similar thought process, I probably added a bit more to get to 14 from the “fear factor” of the heights lol
But I love your description!
What happens if you were to fail a check on an erosion DC? Like say after the first or success. You roll really low and after the + it short by like 4. Does it just take 1 turn longer. Does the DC go back up by the amount you failed by?
Jonathan F Whats SO COOL is the answer to that is YES, both of those can work and I’ve had it change based on what the style of mechanic I want, I do love when it increases though lol
@@TheDungeonCoach I like the idea that failing adds back to the DC. It makes it feel like a power struggle in situations where it matters most.
Jonathan F oooo yes power struggle is a great description!
Yo, good morning Dungeon Coach.
Poseiden Sheilds MORNING! You were the first one here!
oh big thing about DC, Tell your players what they are before they roll it. They should know you didn't lower or raise it form them. I love open information like this, Players feel so much less screwed over if they knew going into it what it was.
For the tightwalk, i said ten, I'm hesitent to kill a player if they fail something like that. I've had weird situations in previous games with literal rope bridges that our DM made everyone do a roll for because it swung around lol
Dylan Haire hahah bridge PTSD, I got ya. Also I only put it 20 ft in the air (so 2d6 damage if fall) and you can always set it at 15, and if they get a 10-14 they slip but catch themselves 👍🏼
I was also thinking 10 because while a literal tight-rope is extremely difficult, a regular structural beam that's sturdy and decently wide... I feel like the average person has a 50/50 shot at doing it. I have zero acrobatic training but I do silly stuff like walk along the parking bumpers in lots or on other stuff, and sometimes I lose my balance, but it's not that hard.
great video Coach!
deaf strike there he is! Always know I’ll be seeing you! Thanks for being so reliable 💜
@@TheDungeonCoach Anything to raise the popularity of this channel in the D&D community Coach!
deaf strike you rock man!
@@TheDungeonCoach Thanks Coach!
@@TheDungeonCoach oh man where half way to the like goal!
Where's that Group Stealth Check you mentioned? :)
Video is called one round skill challenge of mine 👍🏼
@@TheDungeonCoach Awesome! Great content!
I went with 15, sight unseen
What if I get a 42 on a persuasion check? ...
I can admit I read it as a tightrope in the poll haha
Alex Fikar Yea lol I could have done a better job of phrasing it!
A DC 10 means anyone can do it sometimes. A DC 13 might be a challenge for a low-level thug but a master thief?
A master thief should only need to roll a six to pick a DC 13 pocked with their +7. Sure the thug has to roll a 13 but they are untrained and should not be good at it. The thug should fail most of the time.
Your example of walking across a beam between two builds is not something the average person could do. So back to our master thief (+7 acrobatics) and thug (no training Dex +0).
So if 10 is easy the master thief again moves across the beam with 3 or higher but that thug chasing them needs to roll a 10 (50%) or higher with no other complications or difficulties. A 50% chance of success sounds pretty good for an untrained mook. So let's add some complications ...
It's dark outside DC 15 (Mod) the Master thief needs to roll an 8 while our thug needs to roll a 15.
and it starts to rain DC 20 (Hard) the master thief now needs to roll a 13 to pull off this trick but our thug has close to no chance with his nat 20.
Now, what if it's raining, dark, and the guards are not giving them time to take that walk 20 feet the air. (A DC 25) Sure the Thug is going to fail. He is an untrained mook way in over his head. While our master thief is still under pressure with their roll of 18 or higher.
So a DC 10 is easy for a skilled individual, not a low-level/ CR creature.
Do you not make videos anymore? Every video I've seen and or watched is a year ago or more.
I make 2 videos a week! That’s weird! Search by video 👍🏼
@@TheDungeonCoach to be fair I've not look at your video list. I just click a dnd video everyone in a while to try and increase my knowledge. I like yours for new stuff. But you do a lot of homebrew. I'm still trying to learn the basic rules to be a dm for dnd. Learning what checks to use for what. I use to play a lot of white wolf. Such as vampire the masquerade. I am subscribed. I'm pretty new to 5th edition anyways. I played a lot of advanced but that knowledge is very outdated. I have tons of resources that I can convert though. Just learning how. Do you have a video about changing advanced to 5th... like items from the encyclopedia magica?
The individual Skill Challenge
Yeeeeessss I love it! I’m probably a little too obsessed with skill challenges... but they’re just so great!
@@TheDungeonCoach I think they are the future of table top - I'm not sure how, but I feel it in my bones
blakscot I am down for the future then!! They are the best!
blakscot I feel it too!
@@TheDungeonCoach after implementing them at my table, usually about one a session for the last few weeks, my players just requested that they get to do them more often! They are the FUTURE!
Amazing stuff
damn youre really fucking good
winter dhamers wow! Thank you so much! Haha so bold! 💜
Dc was my guess
dc to walk a thin beam. I am assuming its at some height. The distance wasnt given but even still thats at least a DC of 15 and probably closer to 20 but it also depends on class in my campaign. What is a piece of cake for a rogue halfling would be very hard for a half orc in full plate
Hahaha loved the image of the half orc trying to do that and the beam snaps lol
But yea I agree 👍🏼👍🏼