"It will never be fight" while her horse is desperately trying to escape the contact and put his head in a natural frame... Yes, makes complete sense Anky..
The FEI guidelines are clear: Hyperflexion was banned as a mental abusive method for horses. We have a clear and systematic problem of judging in dressage up to now. Don't give up to point it out.
When people say “We cannot force horses to do what they do not want to do” and “their ears wouldn’t be up if they weren’t happy”.... horses have prey animal instincts and remain stoic as much as possible. Also, the amount of leverage in those medieval torture bits being used is incredibly high. Their gum tissue (which the bit rests upon) is even *way* thinner than the skin over our shin bones... it doesn’t matter how strong the creature, the pain is phenomenally horrific and yes, we can cause them severe long term damage without them fighting back over it. The horse would not be in that position if not for the pain.
but the thing that is really frustrating is that the FEI are completely contradicting everything they state in there rules, go onto the website and look at there rules for dressage, about where the horses head should be, the poll is meant to be the highest point of the horses head, and the fact that Anky is v.open about her training, is even worse because she publically announces that she uses rollkur yet NOTHING IS DONE.
Well I think Anky says it all when she says "I haven't got a clue". Note that she says this many times. If we are really talk about interval training, then shouldn't you know how long the horse is in stretch verses flexion.
My suggestion for all the riders who insist on using Rollkur: you should tie down your own head, too. Rider and horse are a pair, right ? So in order to match the style of your horse, and to give an example of physical harmony, please glue your chin to your chest whilst riding. I am sure that would impress the judges even more.
Holding my chin to my chest for only 30 seconds is already hurting my entire spine so much I cannot imagine how it is like doing this over and over and over with an added weight on your back
"Time flies when you're having fun." wtf? Make your horse over bend and say it's fun. In the video, the horse obviously does not want to get into that position. Wtf, just wtf.
And at the end when she says 'If a horse doesn't want to do it, it wont do it." WRONG. Horses may not want to do something, but they have SOOO much heart and respect for us that they will keep going. It is a wonder they even let us on their backs or do as they are told/asked. They dont have to do anything we ask of them, they chose to because they trust us and have hearts that are so big I don't think anybody will ever realize how much a horse will do for his rider. Even if he doesnt want to..
I feel sorry for Anky. In my view, she has lost her way in any having any feeling and empathy for the sentient creatures she is training. I do not know why this is. I feel also extremely sad, and angry about the way the her horses are being treated. (I would NOT say they are being trained) M J Hannah, MA (Psychotherapist) BHSAII
Anky says the horses are not fighting, but you can see at least two instances in the video where the horses is fighting the riders hand and is FORCED to put his head back down. It can happen when a horse that is not strong enough yet for self carriage to come behind the bit for a moment, but as she says that the horses are all high level performers, they should be supple and respect the bit and not try to escape it by trying to put the nose up as you can see it in the video!!!!!
With the first horse, you can see the tension in his back via the position in his tail. There is such a thing as over stretching a muscle, and that's exactly what she's doing to the horse's longimus dorsi muscle. He's shaking his head and his mouth is open and pinched in discomfort.
The curb bit has a strong leverage effect. One should take them these bits away to see, what they are doing then, without the strength , the power they get through these bits.
- fallding123: It's proved that it DOES damage the horse. The windpipe of the horse gets blocked, nerves and senses squeesed together and the head-position damages the back of the horse and the legs
Pt 1: Anky has been getting more involved in the Western style sport of Reining. As comfortable as she is in using abusive methods, I am surprised that she isn't doing Western Pleasure, in which some abusive trainers are regarded as celebrities. She'd be right at home with some of the crap they do.
- as for the ears, horses pay attention to their sorroundings whether stressed or not. also, rolkur can damage the vertebre near the poll. this may affect the control the horse has over his ears, explaining why they are so 'bouncy' and relaxed looking when the rest of the horse isnt.
Read 'tuck of war', watch 'if horses could speak' and you'll learn that her and other hyperflexion-riders' horses show a massive amount of tension and un-wellbeing throughout the tests.
“Everyone know that if a horse dosent want to do it, it won’t do it”… oh how tired I am of people using that excuse time after time😑 horses are the most willingly and forgiving animal. They will do almost everything to remain safe and AVOID pressure. You won’t believe how many horses I have seen being forced… horses that showed clear pain signals but the rider choose to give it a smack or added some more/stronger equipment to “fix” it. Horses that was terrified by jumping some jumps, so the rider kept kicking, whipping and her instructor was swinging a whip behind it. We can and do force horses all the time, it’s something we dosent even realize, because we hide it behind quotes like this, by calling our horses stupid, stubborn, naughty, testing you, etc. by teaching others that what they do arent wrong because the horse does it (even though it shows or did show (at the start) conflict behavior).
I feel sorry for Anky. In my view, she has lost her way in any having any feeling and empathy for the sentient creatures she is training. I do not know why this is. I feel also extremely sad, and angry about the way the her horses are being treated. (I would NOT say they are being trained) Posted by Margaret Hannah, MA (Psychotherapy) BHSAI
Can someone please tell me why grand pre horses are ridden in those double bits rather than a snaffle when they claim its 'accepting' the bit? Genuine question, because I have no trouble with my warmblood getting a connection and going in an outline.
@ImmortalHappyness God, this used to be about helping the horse to a better working position, to balance the horse by engaging the hind legs, and the effect of doing so was that the horse worked more with its back, and the effect of THAT was that the neck was lengthened and THE EFFECT OF THAT is that the head gets in a more vertical position! That's just the byproduct! Now we're so obssessed with the heads placement, we don't even care if it's damaging! It used to be the other way around.
Anky smiles, invites us to come and observe thus shifting focus to the interviewer, avoids answering and tries to manipulate the interview. she is dishonest and I don't like her or rollkur. I am a horse owner of 30 years. Bad business these folks.
I know how to read horse's body language and that horse is clearly stressed out. Studies have also been done and it has been found out that rolkur can damage the vertebre in the poll area.
Im just going to say this ..... " THIS IS A LOAD OF BULLs**T" I ride dressage and frankly high level horses do not need to be hyperflexed..... I dont believe in this... and this is cruel.... shame on you ANKY!
In my opinion, there is only one thing to be respected about this interview, and that is horses shouldn't be worked in the 'competition frame' all the time. But, that should never mean that hyperflexion should be used, it means that long and low work should be done.
she seemed like she was truly avoiding the question and just rambling on to try and talk her way out of it. i never got a straight forward answer out of it. also, if she wanted to show how it was done and ride her own horse in the clinic, she probably should have thought twice about that. because even her horse was having troubles keeping his head in that position for too long, it seemed.
Well... I'm very glad to know that FEI does not permit excessive or prolonged Hyperflexion in any equestrian sport.. But onfortunatly we can't control what she does at home :/
Pt 2: In NRHA and AQHA Reining, horses routinely have their tails given alcohol nerve blocks to keep the horse from being able to swish their tail during performances. Are blocked tails something that the FEI checks for at its Reining competitions?
Am curious to know why many of the horses being shown in dressage events are foaming at the mouth including champions like Moorlands Totilas that was exhibited by Edward Gal who showed him with Totilas' head almost touching his chest and his neck in the hyperflexion and/or rollkur position. What does foaming at the mouth indicate for a horse that is being ridden with its neck in this hyperflexion position : extreme pleasure or pain?
I'm not by any means a top champion rider, but having been taught classical riding by german and swedish trainers and I find it hard to believe that hyperflexion benefits the horse in any way. Right from the beginning you are taught that the horse's head position is secondary to relaxation and freedom of movement, where as hyperfelxion totally blocks these two things. Ive been taught if you want "variation" in your horse, you let the neck stretch and relax, no matter what level the horse is at.
If she wants variation in her training program.. Why doesn't she ride her horse in a muuuch healthier and more natural forward/downward position? If she wants to train every muscle in her horses' bodies, why doesn't she simply let them jump over fences, canter them outside, uphill and downhill? Why?
I believe in gymnastic excercises such as grids, lateral work, strengthening the cardio system, back, neck, tendons through hill work and long and low stretching. I flex my horse occasionally on the flat, for example when trotting round a circle to the right, softly flexing left....just checking he is supple and attentive.it seems modern dressage is all about domination and being able to place the horse wherever they want whenever. This whole thing was a twisting of the truth. Disgusting stuff.
as I've already told you, no it doesn't restrict their vision and no it doesn't put them off balance. They need to be balanced first in order to maintain that position.
the only time i've ever had a horse do that to me was when she was asking for relief from the bit. it was a very young filly (3yrs) just begining training and she wasnt used to bit contact, obviously. the horse in the video was asking for relief, which he of course didnt get.
Maybe you should watch the video first before you commented. Anky told the lady who asked her how long would be considered a safe amount of time to keep a horse in Rollkur, "To be honest when I'm riding I don't time. Maybe you should stand next to the arena & put a clock there because I don't have a clue. Even when I'm training my horse - like - TIME FLIES WHEN YOU'RE HAVING FUN. So I don't know if I'm riding my horse for 3 minutes or 15 minutes I have to look at the clock to realize my time."
I understood the stretching the head to the inside in the beginning, I do that to get my horses muscles warmed up. But do they really have to be held in hyperflexion for for so long, or be held in that position at all?
I see her riding, and I almost start to cry, because she hurts her horses and they show that pretty well... And she says that time flies, when you have fun... fun! maybe we should flex her a little... THAT would be no fun for her....
that article was also done based off the horse's behaviour and refers to past studies, including one that was done on your average everyday lesson horse.
@dreamhorseaustralia I agree with you that it's not natural to teach any creature without any negative reinforcement. However, you can train a horse to be obedient 100% without shutting it down. You can see Phillipe Karl's horses for instance. They are extremely correct and precise and still look vibrant and proud. But the biggest problem with Anky is really her phisicaly detrimental training methods.
@BanRollkur it will never be a fight because i am sure if someone pressed on your mouth in a uncomfortable/painful way and was sat on your back you would give way. Horses try to please us anyway they can but they are not machienes they feel too, until you know what makes you horse avaid the bit (which is what causes hyperflexion in the first place because the horse is trying to relieve pressure or pain) you can't say it is right. Sorry if i misinterperetted you comment.
will everyone stop saying she doesnt know how a horse feels when she uses it she did state that she does not use it on young horses becasue well they are young, and as the horse gets older it gets stronger.... she is very true teaching any horse to work in an outline is about building up muscle in the right areas and although this is a forced outline over time the muscles are built up there making it a little easier...........
@Emma8887 so true! that's why dressage used to be a recreational form of art that kept horses working healthy way beyond their 20s... make it into a sport and this was bound to happen. If at least they would actually evaluate by the right standards...
I don't need to be told what harmony looks like I KNOW and I still don't have an issue with this video. It might interest you to know that Anky has said that this horse is very challenging and I doubt very much that you could create harmony the way she has done. Yes, Anky falters in the halts sometimes but you've never seen her score sheets so you don't know what marks she gets- even if she was getting 0s she would make up for it based on the 10's she recieves in her piaffes and half passes.
This woman is ill in her head. 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤢🤢🤢You should do hyperflexion on yourself then you see how fucking painful it is i hate humans that do this to these poor animals you should have fun and your horse should have fun but not like that this is just for the money. If you would know a horse as a friend a teammate then you could see very clearly that the Eyes tell you everything about the horse they are the gateway to their soul and if you would really know anything about horses then you would know that. 🤬🤬🤬
2:47 i may be wrong, but the horse really doesnt look like he wants to be in that postition. He lifts up his head and trys to avoid it but she just pulls him back into that postition and continues riding. His ears are back as well, which i always thought meant that the were in pain/angry or something like that. :(
I honestly can't see why people are hating on her so much.... The thing I hear her say the MOST, is that people should NOT use this method if they don't know what they're doing, it's not for young horses etc. etc. etc. Anky knows her horses. She's got more horseback hours than most of you by far. Ride as you think is right, and tell people who are inexperienced, useless and uses her method incorrectly they're idiots instead.
i have mixed feeling about this. i do believe in variation in a horse's muscles to prevent stiffness -- like anky said. that is why we ride our horses long and low, right? so asking a horse to go behind the bit for a minute or two could help to loosen and stretch his muscles, given that you do not use excessive hand pressure. the princible in itself is fine, but extreme hyperflexion for long periods of time is not natural and should be forbidden.
Glad you they her have her say, it couldn't be any clearer, and for me, I have seen much more misuse from a common snaffle, than a the hyperflexion training method. Understanding that this is a stretch, and a strengthening exercise is what is logical. Just as people, dancers etc use yoga, and other means to cross train, this is to stretch and strengthen. Anything can be abused or made extreme, from trotting, to shoeing to hyperflexion. Opposition to her method is based mainly on ignorance...
Opposition to her training is based on medical facts that this method causes inflammation, rips in the muscles, the horse cannot see, the windpipe gets tight so the horse has to fight its own body to even breathe, causes bone growth in places where there shouldn't be, puts an immense stress on the horse (this was proven by blood testing, even a little behind the vertical raises the horse's cortisol levels), reduces their quality of life and so on. This is in no way beneficial for the horse. I'm really hoping you have educated yourself on this matter, as your comment is 11 years old. If not, I hope you never ride a horse ever again.
did you miss the part where i said i've delt with minis to drafts and everything in between? you need to learn how to read. and also study up on bits. bits can cause loads of pain if the rider decides. you notice the reins are constantly tight when she's rollkuring the horse. the only reason the horse stays in that position is because if he fought her she'd just yank on the reins, possibly spur him, and cause him even more pain. horses arent stupid. they take the less painful route every time.
It's ugly because it's unnatural, which makes it bad for the horse. Hyper flexion has no place in any riding program, much less in the highest echelons of equestrian sport. I hope this perversion stops soon.
'All of the horsepeople know that a horse doesn't wanna do something, it doesn't do it'. Well I saw enough horses with crippled bodies that kept on walking, or else they would get beaten up till they bled. Most horses don't show their pain, they just keep on going.
if you could get your friend to verify that that would be awesome. has she got any photos etc? I saw similar things in stall kasselmann in germany and Im always keen to find out what really goes on with these so called professionals...
"In conclusion, this study showed that DRES horses trained according to the Rollkur method suffered no more stress than did REC horses not trained for competition." animalsandsociety(dot)net\assets\library\114_jaws09015.pdf
And you need to open your eyes and study on this subject! I listen to Anky, but it's all bullshit she's saying I have studied on rollkür, so I know that it hasn't anything to do with trained or untrained horses, so I don't actually give a shit for what she's saying :) She KNOWS it's bad! That's why she's so nervous, which you can obviously see in her eyes, and the way she speak. I might have hurt your feelings because you're maybe a fan of her, but I'm not. She knows what she's doing is bad.
@BanRollkur couldn't agree more! thats the reason (among other things) for the strong bitts in the horses' most sensitive place! It "makes" us stronger then them, and they have to listen, or go through a lot of pain!
horsetalk.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/hyperflexion.jpg Figure C horsesinthesouth.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/hyperflexion.jpg Picture showing what happens(strung out behind, flailing front, BTV)
-never tried, or had, to fight me for release. i rode everything from 'stubborn' drafts to 'pain in the ass' ponies and i rarely had a problem because i actually listened to the horse. i didnt ignore them for my own selfish gratification, or for something as stupid as a competition.
The study I linked in my below comment measures the horses stress levels clinicly...........this clearly indicates you do NOT know what abuse looks like!
For our western pleasure horses, of course we ask them to break at the poll and go behind the vertical, but it is only for a split second. You can just see those overdeveloped muscles in the horse's neck bulging out. I have always respected Anky for her Olympic rides, but after discovering her use of rollkur and hyperflexion I am severely disappointed.
I have. It's not my fault you don't understand English, but it'll make myself more clear. Just because a horse acts up once during rollkur, doesn't mean it's abused. Horses in the competition frame act up as well. As I said, they're not robots. They're animals, they have personalities and they act up, or spook from time to time. Plus I think it's a little over the top to call the horse in the video a brat, just because he acts up once. Conveniently, they don't show the rest of the demonstration.
On a positive note, Anky did not appear to have her horse cranked in as tightly as some of the others I have watched lately. Although, I have no idea how she is when the camera is not on her. Some videos I have watched are super sad. Rollkur defeats the purpose anyway. Gain a horse's trust and loyalty and he will give you his heart every time. I have been there many times with my horses.
What a lovely comment. I couldn't agree more. Although I train using Equitation Science principles, there is much cross over with the Classical approach. Welfare, comfort and relaxation has to be of priority in all training, whether SJ, SR or XC - that the horse responds lightly and immediately to a light aid in self carriage - that's the goal. Constant overt pressures are harmful both physiologically & psychologically. My horse would buck & become tense beyond belief, if I ever used RK on him.
i actually plan on ventually making a video on rolkur, showing how it effects the horse physically since many people, like you, dont know how it actually effects them. even people that are against rolkur dont really know how it effects horses. i will admit they sometimes go overboard, like saying rolkur blinds the horse. it doesnt blind the horse but it does restrict their vision more than usual.
I don't get how those people can just ignore all the poofs that this system is not ideal at all for the training of horses. If it weren't so sad I would've started laughing when she said: "Time flies when you're having fun." Fun for whom? Her tortouring the horse or the horse having to walk in a position that's more than unnatural? And I believe that there is no difference in whether Anky does it or someone else. In this case it's about what you do, not how. And the result is the same.
Hey, I can't read your mind. And from your comment it's not clear you didn't mean the horse in the video. After all, we are in the comment section of a horse that acts uo during rollkur, so I think most people would make that leap, don't you? Have you ever watched Anky train in real life? Have you ever seen her ride during competition in real life? Have you ever ridden and experienced the strength and felixibility of an international grand prix horse?
And its also not my fault if you dont understand english either. I was talking about in general, not JUST the video. I wasnt talking about the video, i was using the brat thing as an example of what i was saying, again, go back and read my comment. it's been awile since i've seen the video and i dont feel like watching the abuse again. Anky's horses are a reflection of her torture aka 'training' sessions. Their eyes are dull and lifeless, they express great unhappiness during training and often-
to be honest, just because they have the luxuries, it is only because they are successful horses and go to nice venues, however when saying successful, yes in modern day terms they are, however if we look at the bigger picture here, no it isn't just Anky who does it, the majority of top riders use rollkur,however the reason why the judges do not comment, is probably because they have used these methods to get themselves to the top of the ranks and so it isn't looked at twice,
These horses are NOT in pain. If you look at the "cycle" carefully, you will see a bending/loosening of the jaw, when the hyper-flexion takes pace, follow by Anky releasing the rein, and the horse either stretch down, or remaining in self carriage. If in pain, you would see pinned ears, bucking, serious tail clamping, and eventual lameness. Period.
And what she says about: "If the horse is asked to do something which it won't do, it doesn't do it".. Yeah, shut it, will you? She's of course right, but not in HER situation. Rollkür FORCES the horse down, it's an easy and fast way to crack an angry horse, to say so.. Okay that sentence was very directly translated from danish, but I hope you got the point. The horse is forced to do it, because if it defense itself, it will just make the muscles tired and it will hurt the horse.
I don't know how she can say it is to stretch his muscles when it is infraction the opposite. And that it is accepted with ease when the horse clearly wants to fight her but can't from that position. He can't fight, it is like having a bear in a snare. It is an all powerful bear but it is still a snare and if he fights too much he is just going to strangle himself! Dressage is supposed to be willingness and lightness, a partnership, not slavery!
If it was truly harmful to the horse, they wouldn't be able to risk their reputation considering the controversy surrounding it. Read the link, there is clearly a definition between "forced" and "relaxed" rollkur. That makes any of your arguments regarding it being harmful to the horse void.
I do not think this method is wrong or bad in a professionals hands. like she said this is for top level horses only. they are extremely fit. athletes must train all their muscles. a ballerina can do the splits and it doesnt hurt cause she has stretched and trained her body to do it. she would have to over or hyper flex to feel the stretch. same here. this horse isnt acting abused or hurt in any way. people who dont understand are putting human emotions on the animals.
This is quite sad. Especially since she can't even gauge her time that she has the horse in this method. Sad thing is-there's no rule against it apparently and she's still winning competitions. So wrong or not, she is still a highly renowned rider world-wide. =/
So because she is very skilled and experienced she can do no wrong?? Please even the best of people with the best intentions can be wrong and not know they are doing harm.
No matter how happy the horses look, hyperflexion is not good. It is causing an unnecessary break in one of the vertebrae that should not happen. It is also harder for the horse to breathe. And despite the fact that she doesn't use Rollkur all the time, she still uses it. No matter what anybody tells me, I will always be 100% against it. End of story.
and you should SERIOUSLY stop assuming things about me. I have a mini that does airs above the ground, piaffe, passage, side pass and she's only 5yrs old. i've had her since she was born and started seriously training her at 2yrs old.
"It will never be fight" while her horse is desperately trying to escape the contact and put his head in a natural frame...
Yes, makes complete sense Anky..
A human's body is really adaptable. A horses neck is not build for this extreme type of bending.
The FEI guidelines are clear: Hyperflexion was banned as a mental abusive method for horses. We have a clear and systematic problem of judging in dressage up to now. Don't give up to point it out.
The horse isn't fighting back because it simply learned not to, its called "learned helplessness".
The fact that she's a gold medalist is pretty sad.
When people say “We cannot force horses to do what they do not want to do” and “their ears wouldn’t be up if they weren’t happy”.... horses have prey animal instincts and remain stoic as much as possible. Also, the amount of leverage in those medieval torture bits being used is incredibly high. Their gum tissue (which the bit rests upon) is even *way* thinner than the skin over our shin bones... it doesn’t matter how strong the creature, the pain is phenomenally horrific and yes, we can cause them severe long term damage without them fighting back over it. The horse would not be in that position if not for the pain.
"It will never be a fight."
And then you see her pulling the horse in the mouth.
Makes perfect sense.
With 2 bits and Chains.. jesus
but the thing that is really frustrating is that the FEI are completely contradicting everything they state in there rules, go onto the website and look at there rules for dressage, about where the horses head should be, the poll is meant to be the highest point of the horses head, and the fact that Anky is v.open about her training, is even worse because she publically announces that she uses rollkur yet NOTHING IS DONE.
Well I think Anky says it all when she says
"I haven't got a clue". Note that she says this many times. If we are really talk about interval training, then shouldn't you know how long the horse is in stretch verses flexion.
My suggestion for all the riders who insist on using Rollkur: you should tie down your own head, too. Rider and horse are a pair, right ? So in order to match the style of your horse, and to give an example of physical harmony, please glue your chin to your chest whilst riding.
I am sure that would impress the judges even more.
Holding my chin to my chest for only 30 seconds is already hurting my entire spine so much I cannot imagine how it is like doing this over and over and over with an added weight on your back
"Time flies when you're having fun."
wtf? Make your horse over bend and say it's fun. In the video, the horse obviously does not want to get into that position. Wtf, just wtf.
And at the end when she says 'If a horse doesn't want to do it, it wont do it." WRONG. Horses may not want to do something, but they have SOOO much heart and respect for us that they will keep going. It is a wonder they even let us on their backs or do as they are told/asked. They dont have to do anything we ask of them, they chose to because they trust us and have hearts that are so big I don't think anybody will ever realize how much a horse will do for his rider. Even if he doesnt want to..
I feel sorry for Anky. In my view, she has lost her way in any having any feeling and empathy for the sentient creatures she is training. I do not know why this is. I feel also extremely sad, and angry about the way the her horses are being treated. (I would NOT say they are being trained)
M J Hannah, MA (Psychotherapist) BHSAII
Anky says the horses are not fighting, but you can see at least two instances in the video where the horses is fighting the riders hand and is FORCED to put his head back down. It can happen when a horse that is not strong enough yet for self carriage to come behind the bit for a moment, but as she says that the horses are all high level performers, they should be supple and respect the bit and not try to escape it by trying to put the nose up as you can see it in the video!!!!!
With the first horse, you can see the tension in his back via the position in his tail. There is such a thing as over stretching a muscle, and that's exactly what she's doing to the horse's longimus dorsi muscle. He's shaking his head and his mouth is open and pinched in discomfort.
The curb bit has a strong leverage effect. One should take them these bits away to see, what they are doing then, without the strength , the power they get through these bits.
- fallding123:
It's proved that it DOES damage the horse.
The windpipe of the horse gets blocked, nerves and senses squeesed together and the head-position damages the back of the horse and the legs
Can someone just buy Anky a motorbike?
Pt 1: Anky has been getting more involved in the Western style sport of Reining. As comfortable as she is in using abusive methods, I am surprised that she isn't doing Western Pleasure, in which some abusive trainers are regarded as celebrities. She'd be right at home with some of the crap they do.
- as for the ears, horses pay attention to their sorroundings whether stressed or not. also, rolkur can damage the vertebre near the poll. this may affect the control the horse has over his ears, explaining why they are so 'bouncy' and relaxed looking when the rest of the horse isnt.
Read 'tuck of war', watch 'if horses could speak' and you'll learn that her and other hyperflexion-riders' horses show a massive amount of tension and un-wellbeing throughout the tests.
"time flies when you're having fun"
Get this woman away from horses.
“Everyone know that if a horse dosent want to do it, it won’t do it”… oh how tired I am of people using that excuse time after time😑 horses are the most willingly and forgiving animal. They will do almost everything to remain safe and AVOID pressure. You won’t believe how many horses I have seen being forced… horses that showed clear pain signals but the rider choose to give it a smack or added some more/stronger equipment to “fix” it. Horses that was terrified by jumping some jumps, so the rider kept kicking, whipping and her instructor was swinging a whip behind it. We can and do force horses all the time, it’s something we dosent even realize, because we hide it behind quotes like this, by calling our horses stupid, stubborn, naughty, testing you, etc. by teaching others that what they do arent wrong because the horse does it (even though it shows or did show (at the start) conflict behavior).
When she is so convinced that her method does not harm the horse, she wouldn't have to explain it that way...
I feel sorry for Anky. In my view, she has lost her way in any having any feeling and empathy for the sentient creatures she is training. I do not know why this is. I feel also extremely sad, and angry about the way the her horses are being treated. (I would NOT say they are being trained)
Posted by Margaret Hannah, MA (Psychotherapy) BHSAI
Can someone please tell me why grand pre horses are ridden in those double bits rather than a snaffle when they claim its 'accepting' the bit? Genuine question, because I have no trouble with my warmblood getting a connection and going in an outline.
There is *SO* much wrong about this!
@ImmortalHappyness God, this used to be about helping the horse to a better working position, to balance the horse by engaging the hind legs, and the effect of doing so was that the horse worked more with its back, and the effect of THAT was that the neck was lengthened and THE EFFECT OF THAT is that the head gets in a more vertical position! That's just the byproduct! Now we're so obssessed with the heads placement, we don't even care if it's damaging! It used to be the other way around.
Now everybody, bend your head forward until your chin is on your neck/chest. Now hold it for 3 min.
Perhaps this is how the horses feel..
Even worse for them. Do that while running and lifting someone/somethign that weighs about 15% of your weight.
Anky smiles, invites us to come and observe thus shifting focus to the interviewer, avoids answering and tries to manipulate the interview. she is dishonest and I don't like her or rollkur. I am a horse owner of 30 years. Bad business these folks.
I know how to read horse's body language and that horse is clearly stressed out. Studies have also been done and it has been found out that rolkur can damage the vertebre in the poll area.
Im just going to say this ..... " THIS IS A LOAD OF BULLs**T" I ride dressage and frankly high level horses do not need to be hyperflexed..... I dont believe in this... and this is cruel.... shame on you ANKY!
In my opinion, there is only one thing to be respected about this interview, and that is horses shouldn't be worked in the 'competition frame' all the time. But, that should never mean that hyperflexion should be used, it means that long and low work should be done.
she seemed like she was truly avoiding the question and just rambling on to try and talk her way out of it. i never got a straight forward answer out of it. also, if she wanted to show how it was done and ride her own horse in the clinic, she probably should have thought twice about that. because even her horse was having troubles keeping his head in that position for too long, it seemed.
She says she does not fight it yet it does show the horse trying to get out of it.
There is no 'positive note' here, the horse is still suffering whether she does it as badly as others or not!
Well... I'm very glad to know that FEI does not permit excessive or prolonged Hyperflexion in any equestrian sport.. But onfortunatly we can't control what she does at home :/
Its ok you can't hear them scream! Im so glad this method is banned.. its so cruel physically, mentally and emotionally...
Pt 2: In NRHA and AQHA Reining, horses routinely have their tails given alcohol nerve blocks to keep the horse from being able to swish their tail during performances. Are blocked tails something that the FEI checks for at its Reining competitions?
Am curious to know why many of the horses being shown in dressage events are foaming at the mouth including champions like Moorlands Totilas that was exhibited by Edward Gal who showed him with Totilas' head almost touching his chest and his neck in the hyperflexion and/or rollkur position. What does foaming at the mouth indicate for a horse that is being ridden with its neck in this hyperflexion position : extreme pleasure or pain?
I'm not by any means a top champion rider, but having been taught classical riding by german and swedish trainers and I find it hard to believe that hyperflexion benefits the horse in any way. Right from the beginning you are taught that the horse's head position is secondary to relaxation and freedom of movement, where as hyperfelxion totally blocks these two things. Ive been taught if you want "variation" in your horse, you let the neck stretch and relax, no matter what level the horse is at.
If she wants variation in her training program.. Why doesn't she ride her horse in a muuuch healthier and more natural forward/downward position?
If she wants to train every muscle in her horses' bodies, why doesn't she simply let them jump over fences, canter them outside, uphill and downhill? Why?
I believe in gymnastic excercises such as grids, lateral work, strengthening the cardio system, back, neck, tendons through hill work and long and low stretching. I flex my horse occasionally on the flat, for example when trotting round a circle to the right, softly flexing left....just checking he is supple and attentive.it seems modern dressage is all about domination and being able to place the horse wherever they want whenever. This whole thing was a twisting of the truth. Disgusting stuff.
as I've already told you, no it doesn't restrict their vision and no it doesn't put them off balance. They need to be balanced first in order to maintain that position.
the only time i've ever had a horse do that to me was when she was asking for relief from the bit. it was a very young filly (3yrs) just begining training and she wasnt used to bit contact, obviously. the horse in the video was asking for relief, which he of course didnt get.
Maybe you should watch the video first before you commented. Anky told the lady who asked her how long would be considered a safe amount of time to keep a horse in Rollkur, "To be honest when I'm riding I don't time. Maybe you should stand next to the arena & put a clock there because I don't have a clue. Even when I'm training my horse - like - TIME FLIES WHEN YOU'RE HAVING FUN. So I don't know if I'm riding my horse for 3 minutes or 15 minutes I have to look at the clock to realize my time."
She must be stopped. That's totally insane. Maybe put her into hyperlflexion and a have look at her performance😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱
I translate this as "I was too scared to ride, so when I got onto a stubborn horse I only walked. If it did anything naughty, I dismounted."
no matter how high you are on the food chain, once you inflict pain, you fail as a horseman...
I understood the stretching the head to the inside in the beginning, I do that to get my horses muscles warmed up. But do they really have to be held in hyperflexion for for so long, or be held in that position at all?
I see her riding, and I almost start to cry, because she hurts her horses and they show that pretty well... And she says that time flies, when you have fun... fun! maybe we should flex her a little... THAT would be no fun for her....
that article was also done based off the horse's behaviour and refers to past studies, including one that was done on your average everyday lesson horse.
@dreamhorseaustralia I agree with you that it's not natural to teach any creature without any negative reinforcement. However, you can train a horse to be obedient 100% without shutting it down. You can see Phillipe Karl's horses for instance. They are extremely correct and precise and still look vibrant and proud. But the biggest problem with Anky is really her phisicaly detrimental training methods.
@BanRollkur it will never be a fight because i am sure if someone pressed on your mouth in a uncomfortable/painful way and was sat on your back you would give way. Horses try to please us anyway they can but they are not machienes they feel too, until you know what makes you horse avaid the bit (which is what causes hyperflexion in the first place because the horse is trying to relieve pressure or pain) you can't say it is right. Sorry if i misinterperetted you comment.
will everyone stop saying she doesnt know how a horse feels when she uses it she did state that she does not use it on young horses becasue well they are young, and as the horse gets older it gets stronger.... she is very true teaching any horse to work in an outline is about building up muscle in the right areas and although this is a forced outline over time the muscles are built up there making it a little easier...........
@Emma8887 so true! that's why dressage used to be a recreational form of art that kept horses working healthy way beyond their 20s... make it into a sport and this was bound to happen. If at least they would actually evaluate by the right standards...
I don't need to be told what harmony looks like I KNOW and I still don't have an issue with this video. It might interest you to know that Anky has said that this horse is very challenging and I doubt very much that you could create harmony the way she has done. Yes, Anky falters in the halts sometimes but you've never seen her score sheets so you don't know what marks she gets- even if she was getting 0s she would make up for it based on the 10's she recieves in her piaffes and half passes.
This woman is ill in her head. 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤢🤢🤢You should do hyperflexion on yourself then you see how fucking painful it is i hate humans that do this to these poor animals you should have fun and your horse should have fun but not like that this is just for the money. If you would know a horse as a friend a teammate then you could see very clearly that the Eyes tell you everything about the horse they are the gateway to their soul and if you would really know anything about horses then you would know that. 🤬🤬🤬
2:47 i may be wrong, but the horse really doesnt look like he wants to be in that postition. He lifts up his head and trys to avoid it but she just pulls him back into that postition and continues riding. His ears are back as well, which i always thought meant that the were in pain/angry or something like that. :(
I honestly can't see why people are hating on her so much.... The thing I hear her say the MOST, is that people should NOT use this method if they don't know what they're doing, it's not for young horses etc. etc. etc. Anky knows her horses. She's got more horseback hours than most of you by far. Ride as you think is right, and tell people who are inexperienced, useless and uses her method incorrectly they're idiots instead.
i have mixed feeling about this. i do believe in variation in a horse's muscles to prevent stiffness -- like anky said. that is why we ride our horses long and low, right? so asking a horse to go behind the bit for a minute or two could help to loosen and stretch his muscles, given that you do not use excessive hand pressure. the princible in itself is fine, but extreme hyperflexion for long periods of time is not natural and should be forbidden.
Glad you they her have her say, it couldn't be any clearer, and for me, I have seen much more misuse from a common snaffle, than a the hyperflexion training method. Understanding that this is a stretch, and a strengthening exercise is what is logical. Just as people, dancers etc use yoga, and other means to cross train, this is to stretch and strengthen. Anything can be abused or made extreme, from trotting, to shoeing to hyperflexion. Opposition to her method is based mainly on ignorance...
Opposition to her training is based on medical facts that this method causes inflammation, rips in the muscles, the horse cannot see, the windpipe gets tight so the horse has to fight its own body to even breathe, causes bone growth in places where there shouldn't be, puts an immense stress on the horse (this was proven by blood testing, even a little behind the vertical raises the horse's cortisol levels), reduces their quality of life and so on. This is in no way beneficial for the horse.
I'm really hoping you have educated yourself on this matter, as your comment is 11 years old. If not, I hope you never ride a horse ever again.
Well said, jumper649! I hate seeing horses being worked behind the vertical.
did you miss the part where i said i've delt with minis to drafts and everything in between? you need to learn how to read. and also study up on bits. bits can cause loads of pain if the rider decides. you notice the reins are constantly tight when she's rollkuring the horse. the only reason the horse stays in that position is because if he fought her she'd just yank on the reins, possibly spur him, and cause him even more pain. horses arent stupid. they take the less painful route every time.
It's ugly because it's unnatural, which makes it bad for the horse. Hyper flexion has no place in any riding program, much less in the highest echelons of equestrian sport. I hope this perversion stops soon.
Poor horse! behind the vertical the whole time. Horrific
'All of the horsepeople know that a horse doesn't wanna do something, it doesn't do it'. Well I saw enough horses with crippled bodies that kept on walking, or else they would get beaten up till they bled. Most horses don't show their pain, they just keep on going.
if you could get your friend to verify that that would be awesome. has she got any photos etc? I saw similar things in stall kasselmann in germany and Im always keen to find out what really goes on with these so called professionals...
"In conclusion, this study showed that DRES horses trained according to the
Rollkur method suffered no more stress than did REC horses not trained for competition."
animalsandsociety(dot)net\assets\library\114_jaws09015.pdf
I just can hope for all the poor horses which have to do hyperflexion, that one day all this will finally stop...
And you need to open your eyes and study on this subject!
I listen to Anky, but it's all bullshit she's saying
I have studied on rollkür, so I know that it hasn't anything to do with trained or untrained horses, so I don't actually give a shit for what she's saying :) She KNOWS it's bad! That's why she's so nervous, which you can obviously see in her eyes, and the way she speak. I might have hurt your feelings because you're maybe a fan of her, but I'm not. She knows what she's doing is bad.
@BanRollkur couldn't agree more! thats the reason (among other things) for the strong bitts in the horses' most sensitive place! It "makes" us stronger then them, and they have to listen, or go through a lot of pain!
Her horse's ears are not forward at the end. They are turned out to the side which shows that he is attentive to her. It doesn't mean he's happy.
what is the hyperflexion of the neck could any one tell me??? thanks =)
horsetalk.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/hyperflexion.jpg Figure C
horsesinthesouth.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/hyperflexion.jpg Picture showing what happens(strung out behind, flailing front, BTV)
-never tried, or had, to fight me for release. i rode everything from 'stubborn' drafts to 'pain in the ass' ponies and i rarely had a problem because i actually listened to the horse. i didnt ignore them for my own selfish gratification, or for something as stupid as a competition.
agree with you copletely Equ3strianCallie!
I wonder how much time they get to stretch in a field.....if they do go to a field :/
The study I linked in my below comment measures the horses stress levels clinicly...........this clearly indicates you do NOT know what abuse looks like!
For our western pleasure horses, of course we ask them to break at the poll and go behind the vertical, but it is only for a split second. You can just see those overdeveloped muscles in the horse's neck bulging out. I have always respected Anky for her Olympic rides, but after discovering her use of rollkur and hyperflexion I am severely disappointed.
I have. It's not my fault you don't understand English, but it'll make myself more clear. Just because a horse acts up once during rollkur, doesn't mean it's abused. Horses in the competition frame act up as well. As I said, they're not robots. They're animals, they have personalities and they act up, or spook from time to time.
Plus I think it's a little over the top to call the horse in the video a brat, just because he acts up once. Conveniently, they don't show the rest of the demonstration.
On a positive note, Anky did not appear to have her horse cranked in as tightly as some of the others I have watched lately. Although, I have no idea how she is when the camera is not on her.
Some videos I have watched are super sad. Rollkur defeats the purpose anyway. Gain a horse's trust and loyalty and he will give you his heart every time. I have been there many times with my horses.
What a lovely comment. I couldn't agree more. Although I train using Equitation Science principles, there is much cross over with the Classical approach. Welfare, comfort and relaxation has to be of priority in all training, whether SJ, SR or XC - that the horse responds lightly and immediately to a light aid in self carriage - that's the goal. Constant overt pressures are harmful both physiologically & psychologically. My horse would buck & become tense beyond belief, if I ever used RK on him.
i actually plan on ventually making a video on rolkur, showing how it effects the horse physically since many people, like you, dont know how it actually effects them. even people that are against rolkur dont really know how it effects horses. i will admit they sometimes go overboard, like saying rolkur blinds the horse. it doesnt blind the horse but it does restrict their vision more than usual.
There has been plenty of research done by medical professionals. They are all stating that Rollkur is harmful.
I don't get how those people can just ignore all the poofs that this system is not ideal at all for the training of horses. If it weren't so sad I would've started laughing when she said: "Time flies when you're having fun." Fun for whom? Her tortouring the horse or the horse having to walk in a position that's more than unnatural? And I believe that there is no difference in whether Anky does it or someone else. In this case it's about what you do, not how. And the result is the same.
Hey, I can't read your mind. And from your comment it's not clear you didn't mean the horse in the video. After all, we are in the comment section of a horse that acts uo during rollkur, so I think most people would make that leap, don't you?
Have you ever watched Anky train in real life? Have you ever seen her ride during competition in real life? Have you ever ridden and experienced the strength and felixibility of an international grand prix horse?
And its also not my fault if you dont understand english either. I was talking about in general, not JUST the video. I wasnt talking about the video, i was using the brat thing as an example of what i was saying, again, go back and read my comment. it's been awile since i've seen the video and i dont feel like watching the abuse again. Anky's horses are a reflection of her torture aka 'training' sessions. Their eyes are dull and lifeless, they express great unhappiness during training and often-
to be honest, just because they have the luxuries, it is only because they are successful horses and go to nice venues, however when saying successful, yes in modern day terms they are, however if we look at the bigger picture here, no it isn't just Anky who does it, the majority of top riders use rollkur,however the reason why the judges do not comment, is probably because they have used these methods to get themselves to the top of the ranks and so it isn't looked at twice,
i'm asking what passage has to do with rolkur since they are two different manouvers. but yes i'm fine with a minute of passage.
These horses are NOT in pain. If you look at the "cycle" carefully, you will see a bending/loosening of the jaw, when the hyper-flexion takes pace, follow by Anky releasing the rein, and the horse either stretch down, or remaining in self carriage. If in pain, you would see pinned ears, bucking, serious tail clamping, and eventual lameness. Period.
the other riders in the ring were riding in a hyperflexion frame too. why isn't anyone attacking them?
And what she says about: "If the horse is asked to do something which it won't do, it doesn't do it".. Yeah, shut it, will you?
She's of course right, but not in HER situation. Rollkür FORCES the horse down, it's an easy and fast way to crack an angry horse, to say so.. Okay that sentence was very directly translated from danish, but I hope you got the point. The horse is forced to do it, because if it defense itself, it will just make the muscles tired and it will hurt the horse.
I don't know how she can say it is to stretch his muscles when it is infraction the opposite. And that it is accepted with ease when the horse clearly wants to fight her but can't from that position. He can't fight, it is like having a bear in a snare. It is an all powerful bear but it is still a snare and if he fights too much he is just going to strangle himself! Dressage is supposed to be willingness and lightness, a partnership, not slavery!
Hvorfor kan tilskuerne ikke se hvor synd det er for den stakkels hest
If it was truly harmful to the horse, they wouldn't be able to risk their reputation considering the controversy surrounding it. Read the link, there is clearly a definition between "forced" and "relaxed" rollkur. That makes any of your arguments regarding it being harmful to the horse void.
Anky
I do not think this method is wrong or bad in a professionals hands. like she said this is for top level horses only. they are extremely fit. athletes must train all their muscles. a ballerina can do the splits and it doesnt hurt cause she has stretched and trained her body to do it. she would have to over or hyper flex to feel the stretch. same here. this horse isnt acting abused or hurt in any way. people who dont understand are putting human emotions on the animals.
This is quite sad. Especially since she can't even gauge her time that she has the horse in this method. Sad thing is-there's no rule against it apparently and she's still winning competitions. So wrong or not, she is still a highly renowned rider world-wide. =/
"when the horses head is high when your riding it, its unhealty" wtf?! rollkur is unhealthy for the horse, think before you speak lady
So because she is very skilled and experienced she can do no wrong?? Please even the best of people with the best intentions can be wrong and not know they are doing harm.
No matter how happy the horses look, hyperflexion is not good. It is causing an unnecessary break in one of the vertebrae that should not happen. It is also harder for the horse to breathe.
And despite the fact that she doesn't use Rollkur all the time, she still uses it.
No matter what anybody tells me, I will always be 100% against it. End of story.
Why do she use such a horrible method it's cruel
and you should SERIOUSLY stop assuming things about me. I have a mini that does airs above the ground, piaffe, passage, side pass and she's only 5yrs old. i've had her since she was born and started seriously training her at 2yrs old.