Into the Dalek - Take Two Doctor Who Review
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- The Doctor and Clara take on the Daleks in a whole new way... that is oddly reminiscent of something the show has already done. Actually it's oddly reminiscent of several things that the show has already done.
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I think a fun arc for this Nathaniel character would be for him to do a Palpatine and end up saying "I am the council."
about the soldier thing, i think it makes sense. the last time we had an adventure with the doctor (with the exception of deep breath) was litterally over a thousand years ago for him, he has lived through yet another war and watched thousands of people die. thats deffinitely enough to sour someones veiw of soldiers significantly.
Add into the fact that that he had to deal with Demon's Run and that whole mess along with their fear of him, how they used the people he loved against him and even turned their daughter into a weapon to take him down, effectively making River Song into the ultimate soldier against the Doctor. It makes sense if all the lines are drawn together, the Doctor hated weapons because he always felt that they were never needed, he wanted war because of the Time War. The events of series 7 and those of Trenzalore could have easily pushed it even further, even though soldiers fought alongside him, after nearly a thousand years of seeing nothing more than death and carnage trying to defend the village, it makes perfect sense.
I think one reason Steven Moffat started out so strong as a writer and a showrunner was that he had 3-4 terrific ideas...but over time he started re-using and re-cycling them.
Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead = Digital Afterlife that "Saves" People's Personalities
Death In Heaven = Digital Afterlife
Twice Upon A Time = Digital Afterlife
Girl in the Fireplace = Female Child meets the Doctor sporadically into Adulthood
Amy Pond = Female Child meets the Doctor sporadically into Adulthood
River Song = Female Child meets the Doctor sporadically into Adulthood...out of order.
I thought Danny Pink was fine, I just don't like the way his character ended up amounting to nothing by the end.
I think they just added him for a Mickey/Rory equivalent. A boyfriend character who's cynical of the Doctor.
@@Silverwind87 unfortunately that's all his character was
I believe they tried to add him as kind of the complete opposite of the Doctor. It's what Moffat did with Amy and Rory, regarding their normal life compared to their TARDIS life, except in Danny's case it was a character. So for some people he came off as boring (which he wasn't), he just represented safe, stability, home and all that comes with it.
I saw Danny as a way to highlight this older doctor's 'elite nature'. It was aiming for a sort of commentary on class relations here in the UK. Though I'm not sure anyone could call it a success or if it translated very well anywhere else.
He should have a been a third companion on a couple adventures
Martha might have been a doctor, but she was as much doctor as soldier by the end of her arc.
I like Danny Pink but I did not like how the character was used. However, the finale for Danny Pink was good with few nitpicks. I didn't like Clara.
6:26 I've come to terms with Steven only having so many ideas. He's good at recontextualising old stuff, at least.
7:23 *This* I take issue with, however. A Christmas Carol? Paul Cornell! The Big Bang? Mark Gattis! Blink? Lawrence Miles! He cherrypicks other writers' work, and often doesn't even ask permission. That's just poor form for a professional writer. No wonder Steven sticks to adapting 19th Century work. So little of his career is actually original, and it does frustrate me because anything that *is* original is always his best stuff!
Moffat tended to recycle his material or rely on old tropes a lot in his later tenure and it's one of the things that brought down S8 for me. He can reuse ideas in a good way like the angels using human voices like the Vashta Nerada did. And at least he only rips off his own stuff for the most part (I just saw the exceptions you listed). Off nearly all of Chibnall's work the only idea I've ever not seen before was the cubes in Power of the Three.
@@Ben-vf5gk - oh, yeah, Chris is the worst. But I suppose my expectations for Chris are pretty low, so it doesn't annoy me as much. Well, except for Series 12 copying Series 3, but that's only because Series 3 is one of my favourites.
@@nightowl8477 It just reminds me so much of the 80s, so many callbacks and nostalgia. I like stories like Attack of the Cybermen and Spyfall and given the reaction S11 got I understand why he did it to an extent but it's not doing the show any favours long term.
Another mediocre episode of this series
This is my least fav series
The eps i actually like in this series are
Listen
Mummy on the orient express
Flatline
Finale
Danny always seemed more like a plot device then a character. "Clara has a boyfriend! Now he's dead!" It's actually the same complaint I have about Clara, but even more so.
"Don't be lasagna." // "She cares so I don't have to." Two of my favourite Capaldi Doctor lines. Shame the rest of the episode is mostly forgettable.
"Are you out of your mind?!"
"No, I'm inside a Dalek!"
@@Silverwind87 All three: yes
My only problem with it is I don't get why they put up this veneer of the Doctor not caring. Like when I think of the Doctor apathetic is really not something id ever describe him as.
I always found Clara and Dannys relationship to be quite a fresh bit of writing, its two people who genuinely fall in love yet are utterly incompatable as they both need to be in control, for Danny thats laying down rules for Clara, and his desire after what happened to him in the army to get control back over his life, and Clara's control nature is well commented on throughout. Its pretty easy to write a character whose supernice, everyone likes and has a tragic end, its much more impressive to write a dsyfunctional releationship yet still where there is this genuine love and then give it a tragic end. Also we've seen the other sort of relationship already with Amy and Rory, so just repeating that by making Danny as likeable and loveable as Rory would be boring and repetitive.
On the Doctor and soldiers, its more than understandable. He just spent nearly 1000 years fighitng a war on Trenzalore whilst simulteonusly reincorpoating the memories of the War Doctor and of fighting in the worst war ever and doing very bad things to win it. Its easy I think to see why 12 does not want reminders of that, he is the first of the NuWHo Doctors to have those memories of the Time War that previous versions cut himself off from. And its setting up the later ocnfornation with Danny in the Caretaker where this all comes out and to the fore, as well as the anti-war speech in Zygon inversion. I for one much prefer they let all this come out naturally in the course of events over some info dump in this episode to explain everything at once.
The 'you are a good dalek' isnt a call-back, its an advancement. Its meant to play into the question raised of if the Doctor is a good man or not, as are many of his actions in this episode and how he goes about stuff, and to make the viewer question him.
FYI: British schoolkids can be nasty little trolls, that scene of "Did you kill anyone?" is totally believable.
I can second this notion.
Are you out of your mind
No im inside a dalek
Makes me laugh a lot and incidentally is the only thing I really remember from the episode
It also feels like a dalek story because they had to put it in
See I don't mind them doing a few things again. I don't mind the antibody thing because its something people have. Wether a robot with only a small part being organic would have them is the main debate here. Like only the blob on the inside has living matter so why would the metal tank have them?
I have antibodies. But my car doesn't. My car is controlled by me. Virus checkers yes but antibodies?? With the tesselector it kind of makes sense. The robots are very life like. Flesh on the outside. So I would expect the antibodies to be more organic tbh. So for me the issue is the dalek tank having antibodies when its just a machine.
I don't mind them re addressing the doctors and daleks relationship. Not everyone has seen dalek. They should. But they haven't. I also dont mind having a another moral dalek. It shows that Khan was more than just a malfunction and daleks have their own ideas, and thought prosess. They're not programmed in a computer way, they're programmed in nazi, radical way. They have actual brains not databases, and they have personalities. I like they address that now and then because stuff like that is easy to forget. Obviously we then learn that daleks tanks arnt just tanks they control the dalek inside in whiches familiar and everything goes west, but for the time being the dalek is a mutant in a tank.
I just don't get the point of the story. They have a dalek that's good. That wants to destroy daleks. Probably one of the best daleck weapons you could get. And the want to fix it?? They want a dalek that will kill them? Seriously some people are never happy.
The doctor has always had "soilder issues" never really a blanket rule though. He didn't like that Jenny was a soilder. But she proved herself in the end. So did journey imo. I honestly felt the doctor was just purposely being a dick in this eppisode. Like he'd a shit day. Maybe if the story started at like us seeing the doctor at the end of another battle abit like in the doctors daughter where soldiers were just fighting soldiers for fighting sake because they're soldiers and everyone just died because neither side would back down because they're soldiers. That would give more weight to what he said.
I had no issues with Danny Pink. I especially liked his sacrifice in the finale two parter. Heavy stuff. Your idea of "Leave the gun behind" was so much better than what we got! It feels far more on-form.
Ah, Danny. If only he'd been an actual companion because his backstory is actually really interesting but instead they just have him stuck in Cole Hill School and being Clara's love interest. It's just Mickey Smith and Rory Williams done all over again.
Yeah, the soldiers = bad thing always struck me as a bit of an oversimplification, to almost border on parody, of the Doctor's attitude. The Doctor's always had an issue with 'the military mind', and the shoot first approach. But that's a different issue to 'soldiers as a whole = bad'. His relationship with the Brig should bring that home entirely. They get along and like each other, but have very different views on the use of force.
Also, the Doctor always feels like the kind of character who would have more sympathy with people ordered to do things, sometimes against their will. The problem is the choice to do harm and excusing it with 'I was just following orders'.
Shrinking and exploring the enemy's body was also a thing in The Invisible Enemy from Tom Baker's era. Except back then it was done.... far, far more.... weirdly? I'm sure you'll go like "What the actual F" when you see it. I myself completely forgot about the Tesselecta BTW :P
The Doctor shrinking down and entering a living creature and then being attacked by antibodies was not stolen from the Tesselecta. It was stolen from the Tom Baker story The Invisible Enemy (famous for being the first story with K-9).
The are of elements of Let's Kill Hitler in there, but because the source text for those is Fantastic Voyage. That is what Into the Dalek is remaking for Doctor Who. It's not stealing bits of Let's Kill Hitler. It's stealing the 60s source.
Between FV and LKH lies,of course,the 70s Who story "The Invisible Enemy" which also had a shrinking bit🎩🙂
@@neilmcdonald4113 Yeah, the one where four and Leela make smal copies of themselves which walk around in the doctors head, right?
I always thought the Tesselector was more a nod to the classic British Beano comic strip Numskulls. ukcomics.fandom.com/wiki/The_Numskulls
@@neilmcdonald4113 I was just about to point out The Invisible Enemy
@@neilmcdonald4113 Of course!
In terms of the concept and execution of this story, I really love it. Great, tight script to a somewhat camp idea. It's the *mechanics* of the story I take issue with.
I think what they were going for is a Dalek which starts out as morally ambiguous, the Doctor and co try to make it wholly good, but end up making it wholly bad. They then fix their mistake, and Rusty is morally ambiguous once again. That's all fine, but it's taken me three rewatches to work that out. Very poorly handled theming there, and I really did have no idea what the motivations of the characters were until recently. I didn't know what the characters *wanted* to happen, so when things went wrong, I was just left saying "Oh, is that not what they wanted? Okay," when it was clearly intended to be an emotional moment.
I would've loved Journey Blue to have been 12's next companion.
It would've solved the 'young normal woman from modern day England' problem and given 12 another chance to overcome his soldier aversion whilst being able to help each other come to terms with both the necessities of fatal action as well as finding other ways around it.
The actor for Danny is sometimes a little wooden, and his character doesn't really progress. He hits all the same beats of "I'm a soldier" every appearance he has. I do like him though.
I thought Into the Dalek was a pretty good story but definitely not one of Capaldi's best. I agree with the positives you listed out here, but I also like how it establishes the central storyline of the series with Twelve asking Clara if he's "a good man" (I think Series 8 is about the Doctor rediscovering who he is), and visually, it is one of the most impressive-looking episodes of Capaldi's tenure, especially the moment when they are going through the Dalek's eye. I do think the concept of going inside a Dalek and exploring it is a fascinating concept and I thought that idea was well-realised here. I agree, some ideas aren't 100% original, and as far as Twelve's initial dislike of soldiers are concerned, for anyways, it felt like a contrived reason for the Doctor to be distrustful/jealous of Danny when they meet in The Caretaker, as well as to add more tension in the semi/quasi-love triangle between the Doctor, Clara and Danny in this series. Overall, while this story is very straightforward, it's a functional story that I can sit back and enjoy every once in a while.
I love this episode and I really like Danny
I feel like the Doctor turning her away because she was a soldier was supposed to be a bit of a shock just like some of early 12th Doctor's other questionable decisions. Partially because of the Time War and maybe even because of what happened on Trenzalore, this Doctor is hugely doubting his own sense of morality and soldiers just remind him of a part of himself that he hates. It's not so much that he hates soldiers, but that he hates himself because he was a soldier which he feels undermines his goal of being a "good man."
So true on the soldier front - also 11th in the Angels two parter - interacting and liking (some) soldiers.
I’m guessing you haven’t seen classic episode The Invisible Enemy yet, because they’ve done this story before, before! Wow, are you in for something that’s either ridiculously camp fun or hideously appropriate to the corona virus situation.
The doctor mentioned not liking soldiers in The Doctor's Daughter. It's been a long time since it was used in a plot.
I love the finale of this series
For what it's worth, I actually enjoyed this.
The episode asks many questions without providing any answers. Kinda just meh. Also Danny Pink is so overhated and is a fairly decent character
In The Invisible Enemy Tom's Doctor( 4th Doctor) and Leelas clones were shrunk to go inside The Doctor to fight the virus monster inside him. K9s first episode. I hope you make more videos. I agree with most of your review of Into the Dalek.
Clara as teacher is one of my favorite things about her. I'm a secondary school teacher, and I am convinced that there is at least one teacher or spouse of a teacher in among the writing staff, because the way she and Danny interact around students - especially in the first half of the series - feels so real to my experience. I could relate to them both so well.
One of my favorite Smith moments was when he got the phone call from UNIT and stayed silent mourning the loss of the brigadier. Just adding one of my favorite moments of the doctor respecting soldiers.
I think the whole "Twelve dislikes soldiers" aspect of series 8 really suffered from how rushed The Time of the Doctor was. If they had split The Time of the Doctor into a two-parter and focused on how the war on Trenzalore took a toll on Eleven, his next incarnation hating all things related to war to this extent would have appeared far more natural
Doctor Who has made so much. I think it's pretty hard to not get repetive. I also don't like, that the doctor just don't like soldiers now anymore. It does not really make sense. I mean he is still working for unit.
About the soldier thing: I seem to remember that Ten was really quite dismissive towards Jenny in the beginning?
That wasn’t because she was a soldier it’s because that was literally the only thing she was created to be. Which she the proved to him she was much more than.
@@CouncilofGeeks Right! Guess I'll always try and make excuses for this show... Which is why you are running the meetings here 😉
I mean Ten seemed okay that Martha was working with UNIT. Hell, the Doctor as a whole has a long history of working with soldiers in UNIT. He just doesn't like guns since Ten, doesn't explain the sudden hatred for soldiers, it's just cheap to try and tie into the series arc with Danny Pink
Ten also wasn't really keen on people saluting either
@@bacul165 - don't question the cult leader.
I always understood the episode not as a way for the audience to learn more about the new doctor but as a way to show that this doctor had to learn more about himself.
Clara hitting the doctor in this episode made me really upset. She must be a brilliant fucking teacher. Who needs to use reason, logic or compassion when you can communicate your point of view by hitting people in the face? Just awful. I don't know why The Doctor would travel with her again after that. I get that a running thing with 12 seems to be that he hates himself and maybe he feels he deserves to be with someone who hits him, but that's just really fucked up.
11:50 Just me, but I always felt his reaction to soldiers was a projection of his own feelings about himself, certain insecurities and feelings of guilt that bubbled all the way to the surface in this incarnation. But if others didn't get that...fair enough.
12:36 Yeah that would have worked better.
I liked Danny and Clara together, it was nice seeing someone who like, had her number but I feel like they could've done more. At points he did come off a little... entitled? Or like, he knew something and thought he was better because of it? Not sure how to put it into words honestly, and his death never really worked for me, we didnt get enough of him and Clara for me to believe her reaction as something genuine, but that's not this episode🤣🤣 and I do like how they both interacted together.
I think Danny was good in this episode especially in relation to Clara because in this episode she sees the Doctor's less than friendly opinions about soldiers and how he treats them and talks down to them a lot but then she sees this man that she works with and has a crush on and likes who is a teacher and is kind and compassionate and living a normal mundane life and you kind of see the inner conflict on her face and i understand why it took her so long to tell Danny about the Doctor and the Doctor about Danny. like these are both important parts of her life that she values a lot but they have that clash and they could destroy each other.
I guess different people really have different interpretations, as I think Ten was actually really dick-ish to UNIT in the Sontaran episodes and, was really disrespectful to them. And, yes, while he did end up liking Ross, the story shows that he seemed to like him despite himself, as he was pretty rude to him in the beginning too and wasn't expecting too. Yeah, I just always remember that because it really stuck in my craw being an old-school Classic series fan and it made ZERO sense to me at the time. (Still, to be fair, while the Doctor DID make friends in UNIT even back in the old days he was still not always very nice to soldiers in general there either. I mean, let's be real.).
Unfortunately, I think both in the case of Ten in series 4 (because WOW DID HE GO ON ABOUT GUN-HATE BUT DIDN'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE ROSE HAVING A MASSIVE GUN. UGH) and Twelve in series 8, they were trying to set up a pay-off in the finale. Ten's was Davros shaming him about how he makes all his companions into soldiers and Twelve's was the whole officer/soldier conversation with Danny. Both I think are meant to be playing on the Doctor's angst from being a soldier in the Time War, but it still isn't great (even if I personally think that Moffat did it better on the whole -- but then that's my personal bias speaking, as I think he did most everything better than RTD in Doctor Who 🤷♀)
Moffat has been recycling plot points from as soon as he became showrunner. As good as The Eleventh Hour is, it's a mix of The Girl in the Fireplace and Smith & Jones (one his and the other Davies)
Fun fact, Moffat originally came up with the idea of The Doctor being shrunken down and having to explore the inside of a Dalek when being consulted for ideas for levels in a video game (I'm not sure whether it was The Adventure Games, The Eternity Clock, or possibly even LEGO Dimensions). He ended up liking the idea too much and kep it for himself.
Can't help but feel it would have had more potential in a game.
I remember this episode being...not bad, but kinda disappointing. Into the Dalek! What does a Dalek's insides look like? Oh, just generic, Alien-inspired spaceship corridors
On the whole soldier thing.
Maybe, just maybe, the Doctor has always disliked soldiers. He has worked beside them when necessary because he felt such action held the highest chance of saving the most lives. He even grew to respect some military people like the Brigadier or Wilf, who acts very much like an old soldier in parts of The End of Time,. But those were the exceptions not the rule.
In the past, he hid this dislike and it only manifested in little, passive-aggressive jabs. Think about Planet of the Dead and Ten's very first words to Captain Magambo "Did you just salute?" He's taling the piss there, needling her for doing a soldier-y thing. I'm sure we can all come up with similar instances of The Doctor having a "fun" go at a soldier.
But 12, oh 12! 12 is so gloriously grumpy. He has no time or desire to pretend that he has anything but fear and disdain for those who dedicate themselves to war. He's an "old man" whose filter has gone out the window.
Just a thought ...
I feel like there's a big difference between the two 'Good Dalek' lines:
The Metaltron is telling 9 he would make a good Dalek: good as in similar, he's saying 9 is like a Dalek because of his hatred
Rusty is saying you are a good Dalek to 12, he means good as in morality, 12 has the same drive and ruthlessness as a Dalek, but he's moraly good
I like this episode. It's a bit messy a points (the soldier bits mainly) but generally quite fun. For me I think Danny Pink was a good character but I think having another companion Boyfriend was annoying to me at this point. I didn't care much for Rory (found him annoying at points) so having another fairly similar concept fairly shortly afterwards immediately didn't work for me. (I know a lot loved him and i'm probably in the minority).
I'm going to disagree with you. For me, this is an episode that saved the Daleks as a villain. Before the Russel T Davies era, the Daleks had become a joke. No one could take them seriously anymore. Russel T Davies restored the Daleks as a credible villain through the episode Dalek. Throughout his run, the Daleks remained very credible villains (even at the low point of the Daleks in Manhatten/Evolution of the Daleks 2-parter, the Daleks are still credible villains). Then Steven Moffat took over, who really didn't get the Daleks, and we got the worst Dalek episode of modern Doctor Who in Victory of the Daleks. This episode seriously damaged the Daleks as a credible villain and from then on, throughout Matt Smith's run, there was never really a great Dalek story. There was a meh episode in Asylum of the Daleks, but that's about as good a Steven Moffat was able to do for Matt Smith. And then came along Into the Dalek and what an improvement this was. The Daleks could now be a threat once more.
You mentioned the "did you ever kill anyone who wasn't a soldier" scene -- and that hokey close-up of the tear -- that poorly-conceived scene set me against Danny Pink from the beginning. I never ended up liking him. I rarely think about the directing while I'm watching Nu-Who, but I did several times during this episode because I thought it was so poorly done. It tries to play so many scenes for emotion which are entirely unearned.
You also point out the repetition of old elements. You're right -- they don't feel like a callback. It feels like they're trying to get away with recycling. The soldiers thing too comes out of nowhere.
My memory of watching this was thinking, "boy that really sucked" when it was done. Probably the worst Dalek episode of Nu-Who.
The Doctor disliking soldiers and the military is a relatively consistent personality trait, going back to at least the first ep of the Third Doctor. Maybe the First and Second Doctors, too, but I don't specifically remember at the moment. But him disparaging the "military mind" and soldiers and violent solutions to problems in general-not just guns-has been a fairly common trait across the decades. He worked with UNIT under duress, and was constantly trying to leave.
The Doctor has a problem with the military mindset and we've seen that all the way through his lives. His friendship with the Brigadier had depth partly because the Doctor learned to love the Brigadier despite him being a soldier. His relationship with Kate LBS is an echo of that, although being the Brig's daughter made that easier for her (or possibly for him). I don't think him not wanting them to be needlessly slaughtered is evidence that he doesn't feel that way; disliking soldiers is a long way from being indifferent about them being killed. Maybe 12 is making this a little more overt than it's been elsewhere, but it doesn't feel like it comes from nowhere. It could be argued that the only soldier that has traveled with the Doctor was Jamie and even then that hardly feels like a meaningful descriptor for him.
What is interesting is that this might, to a small extent, be a little bit cultural. The only commentators I've seen react against the Doctor's approach to the military have been Americans. This is not my way of dismissing their concerns, it's more a note that Americans have respect for the military a little more central to their national character than we Brits, much the same way that there is a thread of "respecting the office" with Presidents for which there is not direct British equivalent. "Support the troops" doesn't have quite the same emotional force for us. The difference is not huge, but maybe it's just enough for Americans to find anti-soldier prejudice more shocking than we do.
It's also setting up the arc of the Doctor's relationship with Danny, of course. They've turned up the Doctor's anti-military leanings just a tad to make his eventual (grudging) softening to Danny that little bit more impactful. That's why they couldn't just make it about the guns - Danny's a schoolteacher now and doesn't carry a gun. As I said, doesn't feel as jarring to me as it apparently did for you.
As for re-cycling ideas - right or wrong, that's pretty inherent in the concept of Daleks. Cybermen stories suffer from a similar repetition of theme. They have been established as a raw nerve for the Doctor in part because they make him look at himself in ways he finds uncomfortable - it is not unusual for someone to feel special revulsion for flaws in others that they recognise but would rather deny in themselves. With the Tesselector (no way I've spelled that right) - all I can say is that so didn't occur to me when watching Into the Dalek; even when you started explaining it I didn't immediately see what you were linking it to. The failing there is, of course, my own. I think they are sufficiently different for it to be OK (I agree the antibodies thing is VERY close, but I think they're stuck with that at this point. If we were able to turn back the clock I'd find an alternative name for them in Let's Kill Hitler and still call them anti-bodies here).
While it's not amazing,it is a solid if unremarkable episode. A high 6 low 7.capaldi and Coleman are great with the character of Danny pink being good for me. I also don't get the hate.
Some lovely direction but then again what do you expect from him?
This is an episode I really liked when I first saw it, but didn't hold up to rewatches. Part of it was that it had been a long time since I'd seen some of the other eps it stole from, so the recycled nature of it didn't hit me on the initial viewing. But you're absolutely right. For the record, Danny Pink didn't work for me because I never bought him and Clara as a couple. They have the chemistry of wet cardboard. And some of his elements (the sassing student, the tear here) were too clumsy and stereotypical. And then "Listen" just pissed me off.
I didn't see the problem with Danny either. I liked his character. And I also thought the whole thing about The Doctor saying, "ugh, soldiers" all the time felt out of nowhere and didn't work for me. this whole season felt uneven for me. I couldn't get a handle on Capaldi's Doctor or Clara. Capaldi didn't really click for me except at the very end of Clara's era and then I really liked him with Bill and Nardole. I think it was the writing more than Capaldi because he was never bad at all.
What that child asked (second question) from personal experience at a uk secondary school (high school) he wouldn’t ask that and if he did people would give him a ton of aggro for it and be called out . Maybe I’m wrong but there is respect for serving personnel or veterans
Also I feel like that should have used Clara more like at least reference oswin Oswald and that part but it never came up.
10:36 - 10:45 Heck, even the Doctor having a problem with guns isn't totally consistent. He uses one in a serial of the classic series called "Day Of The Daleks." Honestly, it's a little weird that he would dislike guns or soldiers after the amount of killing he does on Classic Who.
I can give you two reasons a lot of people don't like Danny Pink. First, some people just want to see the Doctor and companion going on adventures in time and space, not stuff about the companion's home like. Second, Danny doesn't like the Doctor, and that rubs some people the wrong way.
I did feel his dislike of soldiers made sense considering every living soldier he's met got soidiers he DID like killed. With the one military man he trusted most gone replaced by his slightly more extreme daughter I bought him wanting nothing to do with them in this new incarnation. But I also agree they could have done with more of that.
And I like danny, I just wish he actually got more than like... 2 episodes to actually do things.
I liked Danny at the beginning of the season, but the more it progressed the more one-dimensional he became in my opinion, just being pointlessly aggressive towards the doctor. I never felt he had any sort of chemistry with Clara, overall it felt like a huge waste of an idea and of a good actor.
I think it was pretty harsh of the writers the way they turned on soldiers mostly cause you have to remember this is first and foremost a show for younger audiences. Imagine being a young kid who loves Doctor Who and your parent is in the military and now heres the Doctor, a character you love, basically shitting all over what your mum or dad do.
I didn't mind the repeating. Honestly I think Moffat maybe forgot he even did it, it was like three years before this, at least the "Let's Kill Hitler" stuff.
My reaction on first viewing: Blah
My reaction on second, third, and fourth viewings: Blah
He has a problem with soldiers because he is a pacifist. Soldiers are willing to take a life if they have to, and the Doctor has always had an issue with people who do that. No further explanation is needed.
Also mourning someone's death doesn't necessarily mean you have to had agreed with their career choice.
I actually thought it’s been a thing for a while that the doctor doesn’t like soldiers. Even in that sontaran 2 parter Tennant didn’t like most of the people there and didn’t like being saluted. Donna also said he made Martha a soldier which he didn’t like
I don't like Danny pink, he's a tool. To be fair the doctors reaction also makes no god dame sence. He's had friends in the miltray before I I don't get it
happy i'm not the only one who genuinely likes danny's character.
Let’s face it the real reason people don’t like Danny is the whole “that’s who he is” bit in a few episodes time. I know that’s when I stopped liking him as a character but can still see why Clara can like him.
I remember comments from the time, where a lot found him boring. To me, that was the whole point of him, he represented safety, stability and home life. Effectively, the opposite of what the Doctor represented and much like Amy and Rory had with their home lives and TARDIS lives.
Reusing the same idea happens a lot in Moffat's era and chibnalll done the same thing in fugitive of the judoon
I liked the rehash of the Doctor hating Daleks. It’s something he wishes to get over, yet still feels. It makes him mortal.
Into the Dalek (kinky Kirby ascii emoji) 🥵
Danni Pink is done dirty by the show, his treatment makes me not like his inclusion
And I completely forgot that this was Capaldi’s second episode. For some reason I thought it was like episode four or five in the series.
If you count the 50th special, it's technically his third but that's reaching quite a bit. ;-)
I think the "Soldier problem" comes from Moffat's misunderstanding of his passivim (something the Doctor even criticised before) and the Doctor's dislike for guns and lack of respect for the Captain in the Sontaran story, though Tennant didn't dislike soldiers, just guns and had a pet peeve when people saluted him
I always got the impression that as well as disliking guns the Doctor generally has an anti-authoritarian streak. He doesn't have much time for rank.
Which makes Danny's whole officer rant and the Doctor's response in... whichever episode it is, feel off to me. While the Doctor might take control and give orders when needed he doesn't do it from the back, but from the front, usually unarmed and drawing far too much attention to himself.
Danny Pink was a wet lettuce and just needed a slap to be honest
I agree. I don’t get why so many people seem to hate Danny.
regarding ur soldier issue, Jenny was a soldier....and his daughter and he was gonna take her with him...before she died anyways
Hasn't the doctor had an issue with soldiers since tenant?
I agree with the whole "doesn't like guns instead of doesn't like soldiers" idea. The Doctor is clearly fine with fighting, his problem was always ever with weapons.
I figured he was relapsing because he spent all that time in a war at christmas.
I always thought the doctor was transferring his own feelings about his role as a soldier ie the war doctor, 11 in his last episode and the whole thing from a good man goes to war with doctor meaning warrior in the language of the forest people
Danny Pink is great come the end of the series.
He felt a bit HAM fisted in at first.
But his salt with the Doctor was pretty interesting and his final act was great.
Had weird I don't get note fiction of this one
Off topic but great jacket.
I'm surprised that people feel the "You are good Dalek" line isn't a call-back. I've always felt that it was. I'm curious a rough percentage for how many do and don't.
I thought it was a callback too and considering it was referencing a story that was about 9 years old at the time, it could've have just been for nostalgia for people who were young kids when they saw 'Dalek' and now were adults.
I mean, watching all of that as adults, it doesn't seem as long between stories, but when you take into account that quite a few people watching the show (then and now) were kids, in 'kid years' 9 years is AN ETERNITY!
I take the view that young teenagers en masse lack empathy and moral radar, so them interrogating Danny rang true for me.
This looks like a Time War episode, so I'd assume the Doctor is keeping himself distant because it stirs things up and he's still not quite together. I wonder if he doesn't accept the new companion because he would always be reminded he failed to save her brother and also the opening was pretty much the same situation the McGann Doctor had before he died and became the War Doctor - Look there's your 4th recycled idea.
The Dalek was effectively calling him out as a hybrid - wonder where that will lead? It slaughtering the other Daleks doesn't convince; they must know via the group mind it's gone rogue, so that's a rubbish way of setting it loose (especially considering where it ends up). Story arc set up episode, doctor on a voyage to establish who he is and trying not to be the War Doctor again amidst the demands and legacies of war. Hence he won't lead a soldier into his battles.
Danny pink is so infuriating. That scene with soldier comment didn't come across as hinting at his past. It came across as culture shock. After the 2nd time it happened in a later episode, I started trying to find out if there was a general hatred of the military, in the UK, because it felt like it was supposed to make sense in the moments themselves. It was so confusing for me, that even after the reveal for the end of Danny's arc, I still didnt connect those moments to the kid he saved.
I always took the no soldiers thing at the end to mean that theyre trained in a specific way and follow orders and so don’t have the level of creativity that his companions usually have and would instinctively turn to fighting as an answer but i dont know about that now. Still love this episode though
It'd slightly make sense if there had been a recent tragedy involving a soldier but nothing like that happened, so out of nowhere and dumb
We learned about Clara's job in the day of the doctor special
Worried by this story. Is the revolution going to be a Dalek faction with emotions? Know they tried it in classic who.
Want them left as pure space nazis, so we can all go on bonding over how much we hate them.
Think we should see them off a race of aliens we all like. You know cutely Ugley bug 🐛 things, with cool ships. Then we find out a few survive. Cathartic.
That gives me an idea. Imagine a story of an alien who sided with the Daleks and voluntarily underwent full Dalek transformation, like what happened to Oswin in Asylum of the Daleks. After years of exterminating, this Dalek started feeling guilt and remorse for their actions... so they left. They are now trying to warn other races of the Daleks, but can't be trusted because, well, they _are_ a Dalek.
@@Silverwind87 very cool idea Albert 💡. Not sure about the Dale's transforming other species into Dale's as they are obsessive about racial purity. Space nazis. They are desended from humanoids called Kaleds...what if some of them survived??
@@stephensinclair3771 Well, maybe this transformed Dalek realizes that he will be destroyed by the "purer" Daleks once he's no longer useful to them.
@@Silverwind87 that sounds very on form for Daleks
Really like the direction in this one . The shrinking scene in particular .
I don't mind plot elements or situations being used again.
Repetition happens a lot in real life too.
In a season full of hit or miss episodes, this was a rare one that fell in between
This might've been a decent episode if it weren't for *"aM i A gOoD mAn????"* That freaking plotline is so annoying.
Also love the 12 outfit- it's simple but so classy
And you hit the nail on the head as to why I initially disliked Twelve. I remember thinking “where do you get off judging what anyone else has done as a soldier? Have you forgotten what you were willing to do to two entire civilizations because you thought there was no other choice?” I would eventually soften my opinion of Twelve, basically because Capaldi is so good, but the whole anti-soldier thing was clumsily handled and never sat well with me.
I swear this was, midway through series 9??? Shows, how well I cared for capaldi's run
I thought into the dalek is easily the worst Dalek story in the modern era and one of Capuldi’s worst episodes.
The Doctor's issue with soldiers perplexed me also. Maybe having a gun pointed at him by the soldier that he just saved at the beginning of the episode may have soured his opinion.
I never realised the repetitions and reused ideas in this. I still like it tho