Answer this: Why would anybody buy a Harley, that’s NOT a Harley, because its some generic Asian, or Brazilian, or Indian POS, rather than an Royal Enfield, that is a REAL Royal Enfield?
Why would anyone buy a Harley chinese bike when the big 4 from Japan outperform every Chinese bike? All Harley has to do is suck their pride up and make a 5-6k bike with a smaller displacement engine and they get people onboard to be Harley fans.
When Playstation 3 or 4 came out, Sony was losing money on every console sold. They did this intentionally to get as many units out there as possible. They knew they would make more in games and micro-transactions in the long run. I think Harley should do the same thing with a lot of their bikes. Sell them cheaper, get younger and less wealthy people to get into the brand, and make your money on parts, maintenance and apparel. They may be popular, but if no one can afford them, they're going to hurt themselves in the long run. I saw a video where they had 1 bike in the top 10 of sales for 2024, and it wasn't the typical "HD".
@@Prometheus1979 who the hell wants to ride the same damn bike for 20 years 😂? I don't know how mofos do that shit. I don't care what it is, I'm bored with it after 4 years tops 😂😂. How old is your car?
New riders, new riders, new riders! That they key KPI. Highly affordable, easy to ride HDs is the key. As you said, get them into the Brand Family. The 440 becomes the gateway drug.
Yes they did and the problem with the Street was the size of the bike. It was smaller than a Sportster. HD needs to build a bike that the average American can actually fit on with at least a 750cc engine for under 10 grand. Every other motorcycle company that offers a cruiser style motorcycle has this option and they sell quite well.
They had an introductory bike the Street 500 or Street 750 for under $10,000. I bought a used Street 500 and after six months I was very disappointed and ready for a bigger bike.
This is the thing people don’t wanna talk about. There are entry level bike but when riders get use to them they can’t sell them or they don’t wanna trade it in because then it’s more money. I don’t see anything wrong with the soft tail lineup. All of those bikes are under 30 grand.
Thats the point of an introductory bike. You get it cheap. Get more comfortable riding. Then sell it to the next new rider. How much was that used street 500? Hell they were only 7k new.
I haven't rode one of the streets yet, but HDs previous beginner bike, the Buell Blast, was an awesome little bike. Like a street legal mini bike that could run 80mph.
Problem is the street was more like a japanese bike. And those come for 6-8K. And if I’m buying a Harley I want a Harley. They never should have get rid of the sportster, especially the 883
Well. Lowering prices. Water cooled for all sizes. 1.99% interest rates. I've thought about going back to Harley for the comfort but the power I lose is insane. Kawasaki ZX14 $17-18k 88ci 1441cc 208hp 111tq. Harley Breakout $22-24k 117ci 1917cc 101hp 123tq. These are just my opinions. Keep the rubber side down to all my fellow riders.
The sportster used to be the easy entry bike. It got people in and for a time HD had a trade program where your purchase price could be used as a deposit on a big twin when you traded up. Worked very well - lots of bikes were sold. Sadly I don’t think current management has any interest in that, the goal seems to be a short term bump in the sales figures to get a better price when they try to sell the company.
It can be done. Just look at the new Triumph 400. But it has to be cheap, good and COOL to appeal to younger riders. And they must never be made to feel ashamed of their entry level bike (the way Sporter, aka "Skirtster" riders were.) Harley has a big fat elitism problem. But maybe with the passing of the boomers, it can reinvent itself.
As well as the dealers have to promote and carry them. HD can build the coolest bikes, but if the dealerships don't carry the models and their accessories or support and promote the communities buying those models, they will fail.
They sold a lot of Blasts and would've sold more of them if the dealerships would've actually backed Buell and pushed the product. They also sold quite a few Sprints as well. I have 3 of them currently in my shop. Harley needs to build a bike that fits the average American with a 750cc engine and sells for less than 10 grand. Give it the classic Harley lines and I bet they would sell. I am only 5'10" and I hated riding the Streets after I PDI them at the dealership because I didn't fit on them.
The biggest issue for the Harley Davidson company are the large quantity of used bikes available. The depreciation of a new motorcycle is too much too quick. A person can literally buy a bike that is two or three years old for near or over half the price of a new one and it’s the SAME bike. Not to mention most of those used bikes have accessories on them that aren’t reflected in the value of the motorcycle. Harley should have the stage kits come directly from the factory. This way it is reflective in the book value of the bike.
Harley has tried this many times with 1960's Harley Sprint, 1970's XR-750, 883 Sportster, Buell Blast 500 Street 500 and Street 750. And that's not mentioning the dirt bikes in the 70's. In my opinion, the 883 Sportster had the most success for an entry-level bike. What works in other Countrys won't necessarily work here.
Harley has to please their shareholders. They want short term profits instead of long term profits. Then there is Harley’s typical greed of what they make off the bikes.
I was a teenager between 1958 and 1964. We had hot rods divided between show rods and go rods: look fancy or go fast. Harley made the choice to be an appearance brand, not a performance brand. I have about 250,000 miles on motorcycles and only 5 on Harleys. At75 I decided my riding days were over.. Mine have always been European or Japanese because I chose performance over showboating. Frankly, the Harley brand is fat, loud, and self-congratulatory. They talk the talk, but they can't walk the walk. I have a 21 year old grandson with a 2010 Sportster 1200 Low with 20,000 miles and in gorgeous condition and a stock exhaust. He loves it and he doesn't go farting down the road like most Harley riders. He started at 12 years old with a Yamaha 125 and worked up through 250 to 400 dirt bikes. He says his Harley needs a 6 speed tyranny, better brakes and a better suspension. He doesn't want to ride it 300 miles through the Colorado mountains on the weekend to visit his family because a 60 mile trip is exhausting with all the vibration above 70 mph. He takes his Powerstroke. But for going to work and visiting friends close to home it works for him. And it only cost him $3,000 plus saddle bags and upgrading his lights to LEDs. He wanted a Dyna, but 8 to 10 grand was out of his price range. Harley's problem is grossly over priced and grossly under performing bikes. In my day they failed with Areomacchi...Really?! I understand KTM is in trouble, deal with KTM, not an Indian brand designed for 3rd world countries.
From memory, HD were cool back in the 50s 60s & 70s, back when choppers were cool but are totally dated, overrated and expensive today. No more HD for me, I own a BMW R9T today.
What they need to do is something like the streetfighter they were going to produce a few years ago. The naked bike category is huge. I bought a Buell X1 from Harley, and still have it. I’ve gone to Ducati ( streetfighter v4) and MV Agusta ( brutale 1000rr) to fill that itch. I loved the rumble of the Buell, a very raw bike. I think the KTM Super Duke is the closest to that today. I was prepared to order one of those streetfighters.
@@thedragon1322 it does seem really weird. I think Mr Germany is just getting greedy again and instead of doing the smart thing and changing course, he is doubling down on the same idiotic strategy. I do think they are hitting a home run as far as the colors, I really like just about all the ‘25 new colors
@ I’m with you about the ceo but Harley has a history of bad decisions and being about nothing but the brand vs the customers. Anymore, they’re no different than Apple.
If the Orange One introduces across the board tariffs, HD prices would most certainly rise even more because of globally sourced parts delivered to its US factories, although HD doesn’t report the actual percentage content of its various models.
How about 2,000 off a Harley when you go through a riding course. Will help you on a new bike and help Harley getting you in a little more expensive bike.
Some info from HD motorcycle registrations in Switzerland: 2010 HD used to be the Nr. 2 Brand with most motorcycles registered at the road traffic office that year, right behind Yamaha (data excluding scooters). From 2011-2014 they even got to Nr. 1, yet ever since 2015 their numbers have constantly dropped and Yamaha/Honda/BMW/etc. have risen to the point where today HD stands at Nr. 9 with less than 1/3 of the registrations they had back in 2014. Meanwhile the total number of motorcycles in circulation has gone up constantly every year. What does this tell you? That either less people are buying new HDs, less people are buying used ones, or both. And considering average consumer buying power has always been rather high here, it's not that people can't afford HDs here: They're choosing not to buy them.
I disagree with this thinking, the 750 they built didn’t help Harley and generally was a flop. The CEO clearly stated that he is building boutique brand
They are doing what Stellantis, Ford and GM have done, raise the price to tank. The elephant in the room is the CEO and Board, vanquish them and put Harley loving people on the Board. I know a lot of us are not buying Bar and Shield products because of this issue. Also with that, more MC’s are allowing Indians and people are switching. My prediction, Harley will fall by the 2Q of 25.
A 500-750cc version of the revmax in a nightster or a baby pan america (to compete with the BMW 800, vstroms etc). Priced below 10k. I think would sell very well.
Nobody seems to get it. Harley already said that their only goal is to make and sell luxury motorcycles with luxury prices. Their not interested in selling entry level bikes their only goal is to sell bmw's and Mercedes of motorcycles. I see them sometime in the near future only selling tour bikes and maybe a few high priced softails.
My 3 “local” dealers still have ‘23 models. 2 of the dealers are owned by the same company and add $3500 to $4500 to every bike depending on the model. The closest dealer adds $895 to every dike. Dealers are screwing themselves on sales. I would have bought a ‘24 Road Glide if they would have gotten in a white with chrome, but the dealers said those were extremely hard to find. At the raised prices, I will not be replacing my ‘21 Sport Glide that is white with chrome. Would rather buy another Triumph which I have 2 of.
The Buell Blast should have been a mini Sportster type bike. Having a 585 lb bike as the beginner model is ridiculous and yet people still thought it was a ‘girl’ bike despite it being almost the same size as the FX and FXR Superglides.
You buy a shiny new HD then replace the seat, bars, exhaust and air filter along with a couple of custom touches. Later you increase the capacity, add a camshaft and a tuner, replace the woeful suspension and possibly the brakes. EPA issues aside why can't I buy all of this stuff as tick a box options without having to pay for OEM crap??? I have boxes of take offs in my garage from each successive bike. I know it is a source of profit for HD but FFS.
The Only way HD can come back is to get RID of the "CEO" and that's REAL how can we Hog rider's forget what shame he has brought to the riding community.! Go back to tbe shoe company you came from. FROMF
If Canada puts a 25% retaliatory tariff on American made motorcycles...the Harley and Indian sales are going to tank...a 2025 Street glide up here with the $2500 price increase is $35000 plus the 25% tariff...$8750...plus our 13% provincial sales tax...$49,437.50...plus freight and PDI.....going to be about $52000 out the door. Puts me out of the market.
There's no way they will sell more bikes! With the price of any of there bikes. To the younger people. And they are running out of us/we older people!!
the very thing you pointed out about the classes and how there's not any bikes in the showroom of about the same size could very well be a major selling fail on Harley's behalf for sure not to mention yes they have the nightster s, sportster s, and maybe even lowrider s/ st but yet the costs is going to be the major reason of why people are moving away from HD sadly. especially with the plastic parts they are putting on the bikes yet charging more.
Triumph have brought out a 400 single (probably made in India?) it sells for about 5k and is hugely popular in the UK with the older riders who can no longer manage a big bike and they are happy with the size of their wedding tackle, although, the 400s are no slouch in their own right.
CEO is way over paid for a company that’s in financial trouble. Until the ceo is gone I’ll spend my money elsewhere. I have never liked the way Harley has done business. I remember the days very well where you placed an order for your new Harland then it was a waiting game and they robbed everyone. Them days are gone. The consumer is calling the shots now !
Harley has made several beginner bikes in the past but it doesn't workout well. Not because the bikes are bad, but mainly because the Harley rider culture. If a beginner rider shows up with one of those beginner bikes he becomes a joke to the Harley crowd. The closest thing Harley managed to put as a "beginner" bike was the 883 and even that, it got labeled as a chick bike.
I don't think the 883 was a great bike when you compare it to the competition. I was looking at the 883, Triumph T100 and Honda Rebel 1100 for my first bike. The 883 was way behind the Triumph and Honda in ride feel and performance, as well as costing more (UK prices the cost may be different in the US). This is where Harley made mistake, they didn't make a beginner bike, they made a beginner Harley which limited their market to people specifically looking to get into Harleys. I went for the T100 in the end, I've now got a bobber and I really want a Rocket 3. I've stayed with Triumph because their beginner bike got me into the brand
One thing Harley needs to do is allow their bikes to be sold at dealers who sell other brands, like they did in the old days. When they made Harley dealers sell exclusively Harley, it created an elitest, incestuous showroom experience that was not welcoming to new riders. Nobody who isn't already a Harley fanboy even goes into a Harley dealer anymore. That is not the way to expand your customer base. Also, being sold alongside Japanese, European (and soon Indian and Chinese) brands will force Harley to up their game and build better bikes to compete. It will be painful in the beginning, but the best medicine always is.
I love liquid cooled motorcycles. Indian came out with their new Scouts and the earlier Challengers with it so I'd expect HD should be able to something similar.
@@Scout4x they absolutely could whenever they want and they will have to eventually, both to stay EPA complaint and stay competitive. Reason they haven’t so far is you have too many “we need the Evo back” types that will always be stuck in the Stone Age.
Harley Davidson events? Guess who pays for that, regardless of if you go or not? You do. If you're fool enough to drop any coin at their dealers. The dealer we used to use, has an outdoor music venue. Complete with a stage and sound system. We dropped 10K in parts and services. The dealer wouldn't even toss in a free t-shirt for our repeat business. A number of Harley Davidson dealers have gone under in my area. And I'm right outside Chicago. None of them, not ONE, announced a sale on their remaining stock. You want to know why people aren't buying motorcycles? We have mortgages to pay, and food to buy. Keeping Harley Davidson in business isn't at the top of my to do list.
What would help the company is to stop thinking the whole economy has butt loads of money to even think about buying their bikes. Work with people more and stop always thinking about profit. There’s more profit in having a die hard fan base versus raking in copious amounts of money everytime. Don’t treat their customers like they’re just another number or someone they sold a bike to. Go above and beyond. Also would help if their motor clothes department they brought their work back States side cause sadly enough everything clothing,boots or wallets they have all fallen apart and not lasted as long compared to how expensive they are as well.
They’ve kinda tried this smaller bike thing with the street rod models. Total flop, they are all riding academy bikes now. The attitude of most folks is if I’m going to get a Harley, this isn’t what I’m going for. I mean maybe with a better looking small bike and a marketing strategy aimed at changing the idea that a Harley has to be these big 900lb beasts, maybe it could work. If they don’t put any marketing behind it I still think it would flop again.
Those were good bikes IMO. Especially the street rod 750. I think it was the Harley regulars and even the sales people that killed that bike. I'll never forget. I showed up to a dealer wanting to check out the new liquid cooled Harley that was gonna take on the imports...and the salesman immediately started dumping on it. Watched a new rider show up to bike night on one and get clowned for his Harley. Really lame shit. I Harley was on the right track they just needed to refine it a little more. It's been ten years since then. don't think liquid cooling a Harley is too much of a taboo anymore. I'd like to see them try that street rod recipe again.
@@super16g123 for sure maybe with a better looking design and dealers actually hyping them up. But with Harley’s current strategy, the profit margin would not be what Mr Germany wants. They’d get in their own way again. That’s why dealers always try to push the bigger bikes. You’d need a CEO and dealer network that really wants to hype them up and I don’t think they have that
Harley may need to create a seperate brand for their entry level bikes. Like Honda, Toyota and Nissan did when they wanted to sell luxury vehicles and had to overcome their reputation as cheap commuter cars. So they created Acura, Lexus and Infinity.
this is easy. 1. stop the foreign made crap. that loses brand ethics. 2. current line up is good. not great. but good. 3. make each bike as a basic level ie road king,RK special, RK deluxRK ultra & limited RK. each start a basic price point, upgrade packages to the next model up, so I want a basic road king but want everything on it except the big fairing. up spec road king. limited is a special order colour, best of the best and name plated for the original owner. 4. softails... make them the customisation build. want a break out with a tank gauge. awesome. want a fat boy with the small lcd, awesome. want a softail with a rear fender change. (make. 3 options. the current style, heritage rear fender and the old school upswept rear fender) make them a buil to order from factory. have the normal line up too. but a customisation option can be charged at a $1000 or so. for all the same options but you get what you want at cost plus $1000. everyone is happy.
Do you really think the ‘mainstream HD’ owner / culture is going to welcome new riders on 440cc Indian made bikes..? Sportster anyone…? This works in India due to incomes, population size, and pay rates. It’s not going to work in America, Europe or anywhere else. Just look at how many HD-badged, Chinese-made Benelli’s remain unsold globally… No one wants HDs that aren’t made in the US, that’s exactly part of the ‘culture’ and cachet of the brands identity. Unfortunately, HD seem hell-bent on trying to continue to sell bikes to people like me, over-50’s men. And that is going to be their ultimate undoing… And I’m not a HD hater, I’ve owned them in the past. Thanks for your video and commentary. 🙏
Mr Germany there is too laser focused on selling bikes to doctors, dentists, and c suite types like himself to see the big picture and try to roll out a sub 10K starter bike on these shores. With some actual design thought put into a small cruiser and some marketing behind it, it could work. But for the reason stated I just don’t see it. He’s not worried about how many different types he’s selling to or if he gets new riders into the hobby. He’s worried about how much profit on each bike. And a small cruiser doesn’t pull that in like a big 30k tourer.
Nope, its simple drop the prices all by 15 to 20 percent and a lot of the people at are on the fence will make the move and buy the bike if not? HD just become a brand for dentist and trust fund kids.
This is true. I returned to Ride after a five year break and now with kids and a wife I can’t afford Harley‘s or the baggers at least so I was on the lookout for a bike at around 10,000 or less well i bought a Honda rebel didn’t like it a year later went to Harley again to see what they had nothing so bought a triumph speed twin that’s two miss opportunities for the brand.
I think your 100% right. I'd personally go for a lower cc minimum feature bike at a reasonable price. Honestly I'd save up and buy a 30k Harley now if they ran their business like they did before my time with all American made bikes but if it's gonna be made overseas anyway why not go for cheaper Japanese bikes?
If I had a nickel for every clueless Harley hater who predicted the demise of HD in the last 10 years, I’d have a garage full of new Harleys. No matter how many times they are proven wrong, the same drivel keeps sloshing from their open yaps.
Overall there are not as many people riding motorcycles. I mean let’s face it people don’t have a lot of money these days. Game consoles and social media is more important than just going to the bar or the beach to have a good time. No one wants to have adventures anymore.
@ Hegshot Rides: Thank you for this video! 💯 agree. But: Here in the EU HD has a very bitter pill to swallow with the 25% tax. The Nightster costs 14500 € . You'll get the Hornet 1000 with a 153 hp inline4 for 10200 (!) € in 2025. I feel nobody would percept the HD 400 as a legit entry in the HD world. It's a Chinese budget bike literally. There are better Chinese motorcycles out there. Or more classy ones like the 400s from Triumph, the 350s from Royal Enfield and the GB 350 S from Honda. Which costs exactly the same as a Grom, 4490 €. I don't see success for HD here. I feel many people would buy 48s and Iron 883s, even wihout entry level pricing like it used to be when they still were around. I payed 10500 € for my Iron 883 in 2014. Little freak of nature. 14500 € for a Nightster feels like scam. But 15500 € for a 2025 Iron 883 would feel reasonable, everybody knows the times we're living in. Around 15000 € is at least kind of affordable still. Just look at the massive amount of Sporty lookalikes at the EICMA '24. I feel classic Sportsters would have the potential to be more popular than ever. Apart from that a CVO Sportster S with the 150 hp RevMax and updated suspension and brakes could turn some heads around.
Yes a need for smaller cheaper bikes. Triumphs best selling bike in 24 is their new 400cc bike. And I haven't riden them I hear a lot of great reviews from many experienced riders
Yeah, because Harley was too stubborn to move away from it's rough and tumble "Muricana" marketing, which had become so grossly uncool to the market they were trying to sell to.
HD can’t keep running the business with last century protocols on how to be successful. If nothing changes soon the true blooded HD owners will be pushing up daisies. The small capacity idea is too late and won’t work for Harley. The success of the Japanese bikes all started with kids being given peewee 50’s (sold at a loss), however helps mould a very young brain on specific brands that flows from dirt until they are old enough to buy a road bike.
I also think to get young riders in the future we need something like ninja turtles or justice leage( just super heroes)cartoons (anime even ALL on motorcycles. Or some show that appeals to younger people where not all riders are depicted as assholes that drink and do drugs.
If they want more riders, they'll have to sell at a loss. There's no other option. They tried for to long price people out and now *they* have to pay the price. The goal should be to get as many riders in on the brand as possible. They need to realize that more people need to *be able to buy* their motorcycles before they'll buy their motorcycles.
Yeah but these kids today right out of college making 150K a year. Kids right out of HS making 80-90K in the tech industry. The price of the bike aren't the problem. The lack of interest of riding in general and the appeal of the bikes to those that do ride is the issue.
@tkchillin2065 Do you mean all of "these kids" are making that kind of money? 150k puts you in the top 10% of income, and almost no one under 30 is making anywhere close to that. The vast, *VAST* majority of young people cannot afford or justify buying a brand new Harley Davidson.
@MiketheNerdRanger Don't you see. The company's don't give a shit about the low income part of society. They definitely have a sales Forcast and it's targeted on that top 10-20%. Also around here, several HD dealers are also selling Royal Enfield and Can-am. If you can't afford the Harley, they still got a bike for you. Smart!
Fire the Nazi CEO. I promote supporting the dealer with parts and shop work but boycott HD until that woke CEO is out. Color? 😂 HD colors are mostly boring but I do like the purple and red this year (at a $2000 uptick). HD clothing is so gawdy. Hire someone who know clothing design and stop making them overseas. It costs them $5 a tshirt at most but they’re charging $45….. for a damn tshirt. HD charges up the ass for service. The triple oil check is more than an oil change on my Range Rover. WTF. It’s rediculous to ask why HD is having trouble. Ask when will they take steps to stop the bleeding of customer loss.
@@ejdtm like you say maybe with a bike that actually looks good and a good marketing drive, it could work. Gotta do something to change the idea here in America anyway that Harley’s have to be huge monsters. Maybe a really good looking under 1000cc and under 10k bike with good marketing could do it.
@@jakeviolet2195 for sure, if they do it right and actually put some marketing behind it and make a bike that looks decent, it could work. But the other part of all this is mr Germany is looking for profit margin and a bike under 10k wouldn’t bring that. That’s the big issue I see.
@@jakeviolet2195 unfortunately, remember Zeitz’ strategy is not to sell more bikes to more different types of people and that’s the issue. He’s doubling down on the doctor and dentist and C suite executives like himself that will sit in the garage for all but a couple hundred miles a season.
No one bought it because it looked like a Honda parts bin bike. It still had no power, no character, horrible handling and bad brakes, and it cost the same as a Rebel 1100 and more than a Yamaha Bolt. And those bikes at least have good power, good handling and good brakes. So, the only reason to buy one is if you were already sold on HD as a brand, but it lacked the character to be a true Harley.
Its pretty impressive what harley did back in 2017. When they produced that streetrod 750. Inverted forks, dual disk, piggyback shocks, 6 speed, made in america and for less than 9 grand. I think harley had the formula right. Just possibly bad timing. Id like to see them bring something like that out again. But with revmax based 500 and 750. I remember when the revmax was first introduced, it was being reported that it would be a modular platform that would be produced in 1250, 975, 750 and 500cc varients. I think now would be the perfect time to pull out those others out. Those single cylinder bikes are ok. But i think if harley stuck with the vtwin. In these smaller bikes. It would set them apart from the competition. As everyone seems to be going to parallel twins and singles as well as KTM dying and Ducati going v4. The vtwin is actually unique these days.
It was too little, too late. You could get a Japanese bike for 7 grand that looked better and would outperform it in every metric. They were headed in the right direction, but they gave up too soon. If they had committed to the market segment, and spent the last 8 years improving the bikes, they might be back in the game by now.
@@jakeviolet2195 they were on the right track. I was excited for that bike when it dropped and followed it fairly closely. I remember the comparison one magazine did. Between it and the fz07 (today's mt07). And yeah it was underpowered for sure but the main issue was the weight. The streetrod outweighed it by over 100lbs. Still, it didn't do too terrible. Especially when you consider it's being compared to what's arguably the king of these middleweight naked bikes, the mt07 and it was Harley's first attempt. But it destroyed any Harley being produced at the time, in a performance sense. I think this revolution max engine and chassis has solved the power and weight issues of the past. I was shocked when I noticed the new nightster had comparable weight and power compared to a Kawasaki z900.
Does Mercedes have an entry level car. Hell no. Does Porsche have an entry level car? Hell no. Does ANY Aspirational Brand have an entry level product. OF COURSE NOT! Name ONE brand that is both high-end and mass-market value priced. They don’t exist, because having mass market value products, destroys the perception of your brand as high-end. Just take an entry level class in marketing and stop with the baseless beginner bike nonsense.
You have to nuts to buy a Harley they are not good bike they have bad brakes,they have lots of problems. They put plastic in the valve Train. And most of them you have to put in thousands of dollars to get them to be right. No thanks.
Been saying this for years. Harley needs a gateway drug to its brand. Ford did it with the Fiesta and Focus and now with the Eco Sport. No money in them, but it gets them into the brand. I own various bikes, Harley, Honda and KTM. I love the Street Bob, but for a lot less money, I could have gotten an arguably better bike. But I grew up around them and blessed that I can afford whatever bike I want. I'm also at the age of the "dying breed." How many new riders can walk in and drop $20K on a Softail or even $15K on a Sportster? Probably close to zero. They need that $8K gateway drug bike. He'll even Ducati have a bike just under $10K. Also get away from all that woke shit. Buyers want a good product at a good price. I actually have some gay friends, when they ask me about a product, usually guns (retired Marine) they never ask about the manufacturers DEI program.
Less expensive bike, yes, a😢 "440?", nope, too small, especially an "Indian" made version. Majority of Americans won't go for it. Lower priced (2024) RG's and SG's is where they want to be. Dump the 23's - lesser features than the 24's.
I have no valuable reasons ( in Europe) to buy a Harley since the momment I bought a Moto Guzzi. I like Harleys, but they are not reasonable, by any mean; even Sportsters and Nightsters. Too tech. Too powerful to european roads. Softails are expensive exclusive and sensorial experiences at slow paces in Europe. Tourings and CVO's are monsters here; only for status purposes.
HD tried with the Street which could've be a success if they had spent more time on design. It was too bland. The X could be a decent city commuter. I ride my scooter to commute not my Softail. Folk will shit talk this bike...who cares not all of us want a tourer.
Thank you!! I am SO over this "blacked out" trend the past 10 years on bikes. Chrome might be more work to keep clean and shiny, but it looks SO much better. As you said: classic. My 2016 Road King is all chrome, white wall tires, and teal/white two-tone paint. It's gorgeous.
Harley did the small cruiser before and it was a dud. Harley also has a low price cruiser = Nightster. Sure it's over $10,000 but it's LEAGUES better in every way compared to a Honda rebel of a Kawasaki Vulcan so that is an invalid point. The point of a small, $6,000 base little bike could be helpful. But HD isn't about cheap so cheaping out isn't the sole way to propel them into the next phase of life.
Only HD could be stupid enough to think that the solution to not being able to sell your current stoke of bikes because they are way overpriced is to make sure your next years bijes are even more expensive 😂🤡. Seriously you cant even make this ish up.
Younger beginner riders do, but it's gotta be cheap and good. Some examples of how to do it right are the Suzuki DRZ400, Honda CB500X, Triumph Speed 400 and Royal Enfield Himalayan.
I went to a HD dealer to get some gloves, saw some idiots trying to buy a bike. I asked them what they liked and wanted to do with the bike. They had no answers. I then told the the three people and the two sales man, "if you want to have fun, then get a light bike, if you don't then get one of these pos." I was on my z125CC. My other bikes....lol.
HD is going to have a dismal year between the economy, less riders and their price increases
2025 the end of HD
Touring bikes are about same price they were two years ago
Get rid of CEO
Answer this: Why would anybody buy a Harley, that’s NOT a Harley, because its some generic Asian, or Brazilian, or Indian POS, rather than an Royal Enfield, that is a REAL Royal Enfield?
Why would anyone buy a Harley chinese bike when the big 4 from Japan outperform every Chinese bike? All Harley has to do is suck their pride up and make a 5-6k bike with a smaller displacement engine and they get people onboard to be Harley fans.
the x440 looks cool, i want one
@@FFL-vg9ro 😂😂😂😂
When Playstation 3 or 4 came out, Sony was losing money on every console sold. They did this intentionally to get as many units out there as possible. They knew they would make more in games and micro-transactions in the long run. I think Harley should do the same thing with a lot of their bikes. Sell them cheaper, get younger and less wealthy people to get into the brand, and make your money on parts, maintenance and apparel. They may be popular, but if no one can afford them, they're going to hurt themselves in the long run. I saw a video where they had 1 bike in the top 10 of sales for 2024, and it wasn't the typical "HD".
Who would pay for H-D overpriced parts. I have a 2007 Yamaha cruiser. Aftermarket engine guard ~$180. Luggage rack ~$115. That's it.
💯
Bugatti should do that too. Sell cheap so EVERYONE can get one.
lol you have a throw away bike. Good luck getting parts for it 20 years later. Who wants a crappy weak sounding Yamaha.
@@Prometheus1979 who the hell wants to ride the same damn bike for 20 years 😂? I don't know how mofos do that shit. I don't care what it is, I'm bored with it after 4 years tops 😂😂. How old is your car?
They should have held the line on pricing for the 25s and offered "accessorizing rebates" on the 24s...unload 24s while keeping 25s "attainable ".
New riders, new riders, new riders! That they key KPI. Highly affordable, easy to ride HDs is the key. As you said, get them into the Brand Family. The 440 becomes the gateway drug.
For the sake of their many employees, I hope it works and no more lay offs happen.
Agree they should try the entry level bike, especially since it’s already being manufactured. Nothing to lose.
Didn't H-D try this cheaper line-up idea already, quite recently, with the "STREET" line?
Yes they did and the problem with the Street was the size of the bike. It was smaller than a Sportster. HD needs to build a bike that the average American can actually fit on with at least a 750cc engine for under 10 grand. Every other motorcycle company that offers a cruiser style motorcycle has this option and they sell quite well.
They had an introductory bike the Street 500 or Street 750 for under $10,000. I bought a used Street 500 and after six months I was very disappointed and ready for a bigger bike.
This is the thing people don’t wanna talk about. There are entry level bike but when riders get use to them they can’t sell them or they don’t wanna trade it in because then it’s more money. I don’t see anything wrong with the soft tail lineup. All of those bikes are under 30 grand.
Thats the point of an introductory bike. You get it cheap. Get more comfortable riding. Then sell it to the next new rider. How much was that used street 500? Hell they were only 7k new.
Almost all of the softails were less than 20k a few years ago, but they've slowly crept up in price.
I haven't rode one of the streets yet, but HDs previous beginner bike, the Buell Blast, was an awesome little bike. Like a street legal mini bike that could run 80mph.
Problem is the street was more like a japanese bike. And those come for 6-8K. And if I’m buying a Harley I want a Harley. They never should have get rid of the sportster, especially the 883
Well. Lowering prices. Water cooled for all sizes. 1.99% interest rates.
I've thought about going back to Harley for the comfort but the power I lose is insane.
Kawasaki ZX14
$17-18k
88ci 1441cc
208hp
111tq.
Harley Breakout
$22-24k
117ci 1917cc
101hp
123tq.
These are just my opinions. Keep the rubber side down to all my fellow riders.
It's funny. Motorcycle used to be a cheap alternative for a vehicle now it's the same cost.
Every small motorcycle that Harley put their badge on is failed
Every small motorcycle you say?? Ever heard of the Sportster?
The sportster used to be the easy entry bike. It got people in and for a time HD had a trade program where your purchase price could be used as a deposit on a big twin when you traded up. Worked very well - lots of bikes were sold. Sadly I don’t think current management has any interest in that, the goal seems to be a short term bump in the sales figures to get a better price when they try to sell the company.
HD will sell fewer bikes in 2025 No one wants an X440.
I wouldn't mine
They already tried this with the Sprint back in the day and the Blast and a 750 and 500 more recently. It will never work.
It can be done. Just look at the new Triumph 400. But it has to be cheap, good and COOL to appeal to younger riders. And they must never be made to feel ashamed of their entry level bike (the way Sporter, aka "Skirtster" riders were.) Harley has a big fat elitism problem. But maybe with the passing of the boomers, it can reinvent itself.
As well as the dealers have to promote and carry them. HD can build the coolest bikes, but if the dealerships don't carry the models and their accessories or support and promote the communities buying those models, they will fail.
@@jakeviolet2195 Harley Elitists have always made me laugh cause they just want to overcompensate in everything they do.
They sold a lot of Blasts and would've sold more of them if the dealerships would've actually backed Buell and pushed the product. They also sold quite a few Sprints as well. I have 3 of them currently in my shop. Harley needs to build a bike that fits the average American with a 750cc engine and sells for less than 10 grand. Give it the classic Harley lines and I bet they would sell. I am only 5'10" and I hated riding the Streets after I PDI them at the dealership because I didn't fit on them.
The biggest issue for the Harley Davidson company are the large quantity of used bikes available. The depreciation of a new motorcycle is too much too quick. A person can literally buy a bike that is two or three years old for near or over half the price of a new one and it’s the SAME bike. Not to mention most of those used bikes have accessories on them that aren’t reflected in the value of the motorcycle. Harley should have the stage kits come directly from the factory. This way it is reflective in the book value of the bike.
Harley has tried this many times with 1960's Harley Sprint, 1970's XR-750, 883 Sportster, Buell Blast 500
Street 500 and Street 750. And that's not mentioning the dirt bikes in the 70's. In my opinion, the 883 Sportster had the most success for an entry-level bike. What works in other Countrys won't necessarily work here.
Harley has to please their shareholders. They want short term profits instead of long term profits. Then there is Harley’s typical greed of what they make off the bikes.
I was a teenager between 1958 and 1964. We had hot rods divided between show rods and go rods: look fancy or go fast. Harley made the choice to be an appearance brand, not a performance brand. I have about 250,000 miles on motorcycles and only 5 on Harleys. At75 I decided my riding days were over.. Mine have always been European or Japanese because I chose performance over showboating. Frankly, the Harley brand is fat, loud, and self-congratulatory. They talk the talk, but they can't walk the walk. I have a 21 year old grandson with a 2010 Sportster 1200 Low with 20,000 miles and in gorgeous condition and a stock exhaust. He loves it and he doesn't go farting down the road like most Harley riders. He started at 12 years old with a Yamaha 125 and worked up through 250 to 400 dirt bikes. He says his Harley needs a 6 speed tyranny, better brakes and a better suspension. He doesn't want to ride it 300 miles through the Colorado mountains on the weekend to visit his family because a 60 mile trip is exhausting with all the vibration above 70 mph. He takes his Powerstroke. But for going to work and visiting friends close to home it works for him. And it only cost him $3,000 plus saddle bags and upgrading his lights to LEDs. He wanted a Dyna, but 8 to 10 grand was out of his price range. Harley's problem is grossly over priced and grossly under performing bikes. In my day they failed with Areomacchi...Really?! I understand KTM is in trouble, deal with KTM, not an Indian brand designed for 3rd world countries.
Getting people into the brand with a bike that costs twice as much as a better Japanese bike doesn't seem like a good plan.
Good evening. I stopped at Seminole Harley in Sanford last Friday and they have a couple of 25’ In stock. Thanks for the info. Great video. Be safe
Ford is losing $35,000 on every EV they sell. How is that working out for them?
From memory, HD were cool back in the 50s 60s & 70s, back when choppers were cool but are totally dated, overrated and expensive today. No more HD for me, I own a BMW R9T today.
What they need to do is something like the streetfighter they were going to produce a few years ago. The naked bike category is huge. I bought a Buell X1 from Harley, and still have it. I’ve gone to Ducati ( streetfighter v4) and MV Agusta ( brutale 1000rr) to fill that itch. I loved the rumble of the Buell, a very raw bike. I think the KTM Super Duke is the closest to that today. I was prepared to order one of those streetfighters.
So raise the price to force them to buy the previous year? That’s some serious bs lol. Very Harley though for sure.
@@thedragon1322 it does seem really weird. I think Mr Germany is just getting greedy again and instead of doing the smart thing and changing course, he is doubling down on the same idiotic strategy. I do think they are hitting a home run as far as the colors, I really like just about all the ‘25 new colors
@ I’m with you about the ceo but Harley has a history of bad decisions and being about nothing but the brand vs the customers. Anymore, they’re no different than Apple.
If the Orange One introduces across the board tariffs, HD prices would most certainly rise even more because of globally sourced parts delivered to its US factories, although HD doesn’t report the actual percentage content of its various models.
Had a chance to sit on, not ride the 750 V-twin. Wish I had that chance now.
How about 2,000 off a Harley when you go through a riding course. Will help you on a new bike and help Harley getting you in a little more expensive bike.
Some info from HD motorcycle registrations in Switzerland: 2010 HD used to be the Nr. 2 Brand with most motorcycles registered at the road traffic office that year, right behind Yamaha (data excluding scooters). From 2011-2014 they even got to Nr. 1, yet ever since 2015 their numbers have constantly dropped and Yamaha/Honda/BMW/etc. have risen to the point where today HD stands at Nr. 9 with less than 1/3 of the registrations they had back in 2014. Meanwhile the total number of motorcycles in circulation has gone up constantly every year.
What does this tell you? That either less people are buying new HDs, less people are buying used ones, or both.
And considering average consumer buying power has always been rather high here, it's not that people can't afford HDs here: They're choosing not to buy them.
Harley had tried the cheaper bikes and it FAILED MISERABLY.
Simple fix. LOWER THE PRICES. Why can I buy an SUV cheaper than a Tri-Glide?
I disagree with this thinking, the 750 they built didn’t help Harley and generally was a flop. The CEO clearly stated that he is building boutique brand
They are doing what Stellantis, Ford and GM have done, raise the price to tank. The elephant in the room is the CEO and Board, vanquish them and put Harley loving people on the Board.
I know a lot of us are not buying Bar and Shield products because of this issue.
Also with that, more MC’s are allowing Indians and people are switching. My prediction, Harley will fall by the 2Q of 25.
A 500-750cc version of the revmax in a nightster or a baby pan america (to compete with the BMW 800, vstroms etc). Priced below 10k. I think would sell very well.
Nobody seems to get it. Harley already said that their only goal is to make and sell luxury motorcycles with luxury prices. Their not interested in selling entry level bikes their only goal is to sell bmw's and Mercedes of motorcycles. I see them sometime in the near future only selling tour bikes and maybe a few high priced softails.
My 3 “local” dealers still have ‘23 models. 2 of the dealers are owned by the same company and add $3500 to $4500 to every bike depending on the model. The closest dealer adds $895 to every dike. Dealers are screwing themselves on sales. I would have bought a ‘24 Road Glide if they would have gotten in a white with chrome, but the dealers said those were extremely hard to find. At the raised prices, I will not be replacing my ‘21 Sport Glide that is white with chrome. Would rather buy another Triumph which I have 2 of.
The Buell Blast should have been a mini Sportster type bike. Having a 585 lb bike as the beginner model is ridiculous and yet people still thought it was a ‘girl’ bike despite it being almost the same size as the FX and FXR Superglides.
You buy a shiny new HD then replace the seat, bars, exhaust and air filter along with a couple of custom touches. Later you increase the capacity, add a camshaft and a tuner, replace the woeful suspension and possibly the brakes. EPA issues aside why can't I buy all of this stuff as tick a box options without having to pay for OEM crap??? I have boxes of take offs in my garage from each successive bike. I know it is a source of profit for HD but FFS.
The Only way HD can come back is to get RID of the "CEO" and that's REAL how can we Hog rider's forget what shame he has brought to the riding community.! Go back to tbe shoe company you came from. FROMF
If Canada puts a 25% retaliatory tariff on American made motorcycles...the Harley and Indian sales are going to tank...a 2025 Street glide up here with the $2500 price increase is $35000 plus the 25% tariff...$8750...plus our 13% provincial sales tax...$49,437.50...plus freight and PDI.....going to be about $52000 out the door. Puts me out of the market.
Canada is a tiny market. HD doesn't give a rat's ass about us.
@@Shtevelheadno one should, this country is a full on joke.
NO DUDE...THEY WENT WOKE WITH THE G O O F AT THE HELM..GET RID OF HIM
Hero is the largest motorcycle company in the world, not just in India.
There's no way they will sell more bikes! With the price of any of there bikes. To the younger people. And they are running out of us/we older people!!
the very thing you pointed out about the classes and how there's not any bikes in the showroom of about the same size could very well be a major selling fail on Harley's behalf for sure not to mention yes they have the nightster s, sportster s, and maybe even lowrider s/ st but yet the costs is going to be the major reason of why people are moving away from HD sadly. especially with the plastic parts they are putting on the bikes yet charging more.
Triumph have brought out a 400 single (probably made in India?) it sells for about 5k and is hugely popular in the UK with the older riders who can no longer manage a big bike and they are happy with the size of their wedding tackle, although, the 400s are no slouch in their own right.
They should bring back the Dyna. Bigger motor cheaper price.
CEO is way over paid for a company that’s in financial trouble. Until the ceo is gone I’ll spend my money elsewhere. I have never liked the way Harley has done business. I remember the days very well where you placed an order for your new Harland then it was a waiting game and they robbed everyone. Them days are gone. The consumer is calling the shots now !
Harley has made several beginner bikes in the past but it doesn't workout well. Not because the bikes are bad, but mainly because the Harley rider culture. If a beginner rider shows up with one of those beginner bikes he becomes a joke to the Harley crowd. The closest thing Harley managed to put as a "beginner" bike was the 883 and even that, it got labeled as a chick bike.
Harley cultists have always been a wedge in the door for riders. Sometimes people gotta realize a bike is a bike.
I don't think the 883 was a great bike when you compare it to the competition. I was looking at the 883, Triumph T100 and Honda Rebel 1100 for my first bike. The 883 was way behind the Triumph and Honda in ride feel and performance, as well as costing more (UK prices the cost may be different in the US). This is where Harley made mistake, they didn't make a beginner bike, they made a beginner Harley which limited their market to people specifically looking to get into Harleys.
I went for the T100 in the end, I've now got a bobber and I really want a Rocket 3. I've stayed with Triumph because their beginner bike got me into the brand
One thing Harley needs to do is allow their bikes to be sold at dealers who sell other brands, like they did in the old days. When they made Harley dealers sell exclusively Harley, it created an elitest, incestuous showroom experience that was not welcoming to new riders. Nobody who isn't already a Harley fanboy even goes into a Harley dealer anymore. That is not the way to expand your customer base. Also, being sold alongside Japanese, European (and soon Indian and Chinese) brands will force Harley to up their game and build better bikes to compete. It will be painful in the beginning, but the best medicine always is.
2024s are now "used" bikes.
Really 2000 dollars Harley shame on you
Bring back the Evo. Also, CVOs should have top horsepower from the get-go. Screw buying "stages." Lastly, bring back the Sporty. HFD.
@@white_devil73 EPA would never let them bring back the almighty all-worshipped Evo. Like it or not everything will be all liquid cooled before long.
@mickeygaines007 HD doesn't want to bring back the Evo because it was too reliable.
I love liquid cooled motorcycles. Indian came out with their new Scouts and the earlier Challengers with it so I'd expect HD should be able to something similar.
@@Scout4x they absolutely could whenever they want and they will have to eventually, both to stay EPA complaint and stay competitive. Reason they haven’t so far is you have too many “we need the Evo back” types that will always be stuck in the Stone Age.
@@Scout4x Nightster is only 11k
@ejdtm Good idea. Thanks!
@@mickeygaines007 Too true!
Harley Davidson events? Guess who pays for that, regardless of if you go or not? You do. If you're fool enough to drop any coin at their dealers.
The dealer we used to use, has an outdoor music venue. Complete with a stage and sound system. We dropped 10K in parts and services. The dealer wouldn't even toss in a free t-shirt for our repeat business.
A number of Harley Davidson dealers have gone under in my area. And I'm right outside Chicago. None of them, not ONE, announced a sale on their remaining stock.
You want to know why people aren't buying motorcycles? We have mortgages to pay, and food to buy. Keeping Harley Davidson in business isn't at the top of my to do list.
What would help the company is to stop thinking the whole economy has butt loads of money to even think about buying their bikes. Work with people more and stop always thinking about profit. There’s more profit in having a die hard fan base versus raking in copious amounts of money everytime.
Don’t treat their customers like they’re just another number or someone they sold a bike to. Go above and beyond.
Also would help if their motor clothes department they brought their work back States side cause sadly enough everything clothing,boots or wallets they have all fallen apart and not lasted as long compared to how expensive they are as well.
They’ve kinda tried this smaller bike thing with the street rod models. Total flop, they are all riding academy bikes now. The attitude of most folks is if I’m going to get a Harley, this isn’t what I’m going for. I mean maybe with a better looking small bike and a marketing strategy aimed at changing the idea that a Harley has to be these big 900lb beasts, maybe it could work. If they don’t put any marketing behind it I still think it would flop again.
💯
Those were good bikes IMO. Especially the street rod 750. I think it was the Harley regulars and even the sales people that killed that bike. I'll never forget. I showed up to a dealer wanting to check out the new liquid cooled Harley that was gonna take on the imports...and the salesman immediately started dumping on it. Watched a new rider show up to bike night on one and get clowned for his Harley. Really lame shit. I Harley was on the right track they just needed to refine it a little more. It's been ten years since then. don't think liquid cooling a Harley is too much of a taboo anymore. I'd like to see them try that street rod recipe again.
@@super16g123 for sure maybe with a better looking design and dealers actually hyping them up. But with Harley’s current strategy, the profit margin would not be what Mr Germany wants. They’d get in their own way again. That’s why dealers always try to push the bigger bikes. You’d need a CEO and dealer network that really wants to hype them up and I don’t think they have that
Harley may need to create a seperate brand for their entry level bikes. Like Honda, Toyota and Nissan did when they wanted to sell luxury vehicles and had to overcome their reputation as cheap commuter cars. So they created Acura, Lexus and Infinity.
Never again. My Road Glide is the last Harley for me
this is easy.
1. stop the foreign made crap. that loses brand ethics.
2. current line up is good. not great. but good.
3. make each bike as a basic level ie road king,RK special, RK deluxRK ultra & limited RK. each start a basic price point, upgrade packages to the next model up, so I want a basic road king but want everything on it except the big fairing. up spec road king. limited is a special order colour, best of the best and name plated for the original owner.
4. softails... make them the customisation build. want a break out with a tank gauge. awesome. want a fat boy with the small lcd, awesome. want a softail with a rear fender change. (make. 3 options. the current style, heritage rear fender and the old school upswept rear fender) make them a buil to order from factory. have the normal line up too. but a customisation option can be charged at a $1000 or so. for all the same options but you get what you want at cost plus $1000. everyone is happy.
royal enfield will eat harleys lunch if they dont adress more afordable bikes agreed
Do you really think the ‘mainstream HD’ owner / culture is going to welcome new riders on 440cc Indian made bikes..? Sportster anyone…? This works in India due to incomes, population size, and pay rates. It’s not going to work in America, Europe or anywhere else. Just look at how many HD-badged, Chinese-made Benelli’s remain unsold globally… No one wants HDs that aren’t made in the US, that’s exactly part of the ‘culture’ and cachet of the brands identity. Unfortunately, HD seem hell-bent on trying to continue to sell bikes to people like me, over-50’s men. And that is going to be their ultimate undoing… And I’m not a HD hater, I’ve owned them in the past. Thanks for your video and commentary. 🙏
Mr Germany there is too laser focused on selling bikes to doctors, dentists, and c suite types like himself to see the big picture and try to roll out a sub 10K starter bike on these shores. With some actual design thought put into a small cruiser and some marketing behind it, it could work. But for the reason stated I just don’t see it. He’s not worried about how many different types he’s selling to or if he gets new riders into the hobby. He’s worried about how much profit on each bike. And a small cruiser doesn’t pull that in like a big 30k tourer.
Nope, its simple drop the prices all by 15 to 20 percent and a lot of the people at are on the fence will make the move and buy the bike if not? HD just become a brand for dentist and trust fund kids.
This is true. I returned to Ride after a five year break and now with kids and a wife I can’t afford Harley‘s or the baggers at least so I was on the lookout for a bike at around 10,000 or less well i bought a Honda rebel didn’t like it a year later went to Harley again to see what they had nothing so bought a triumph speed twin that’s two miss opportunities for the brand.
I think your 100% right. I'd personally go for a lower cc minimum feature bike at a reasonable price. Honestly I'd save up and buy a 30k Harley now if they ran their business like they did before my time with all American made bikes but if it's gonna be made overseas anyway why not go for cheaper Japanese bikes?
If I had a nickel for every clueless Harley hater who predicted the demise of HD in the last 10 years, I’d have a garage full of new Harleys. No matter how many times they are proven wrong, the same drivel keeps sloshing from their open yaps.
Royal Enfields are made in India too.
Overall there are not as many people riding motorcycles. I mean let’s face it people don’t have a lot of money these days. Game consoles and social media is more important than just going to the bar or the beach to have a good time. No one wants to have adventures anymore.
@ Hegshot Rides: Thank you for this video!
💯 agree. But: Here in the EU HD has a very bitter pill to swallow with the 25% tax.
The Nightster costs 14500 € .
You'll get the Hornet 1000 with a 153 hp inline4 for 10200 (!) € in 2025.
I feel nobody would percept the HD 400 as a legit entry in the HD world. It's a Chinese budget bike literally.
There are better Chinese motorcycles out there. Or more classy ones like the 400s from Triumph, the 350s from Royal Enfield and the GB 350 S from Honda. Which costs exactly the same as a Grom, 4490 €.
I don't see success for HD here.
I feel many people would buy 48s and Iron 883s, even wihout entry level pricing like it used to be when they still were around.
I payed 10500 € for my Iron 883 in 2014.
Little freak of nature.
14500 € for a Nightster feels like scam.
But 15500 € for a 2025 Iron 883 would feel reasonable, everybody knows the times we're living in.
Around 15000 € is at least kind of affordable still.
Just look at the massive amount of Sporty lookalikes at the EICMA '24.
I feel classic Sportsters would have the potential to be more popular than ever.
Apart from that a CVO Sportster S with the 150 hp RevMax and updated suspension and brakes could turn some heads around.
Yes a need for smaller cheaper bikes. Triumphs best selling bike in 24 is their new 400cc bike. And I haven't riden them I hear a lot of great reviews from many experienced riders
They are very exclusive, thats what i like...
myth. the market is diluted and every poser wanabe has one.
That was the Street 500 and 750. It didn't sell.
Yeah, because Harley was too stubborn to move away from it's rough and tumble "Muricana" marketing, which had become so grossly uncool to the market they were trying to sell to.
HD can’t keep running the business with last century protocols on how to be successful. If nothing changes soon the true blooded HD owners will be pushing up daisies. The small capacity idea is too late and won’t work for Harley. The success of the Japanese bikes all started with kids being given peewee 50’s (sold at a loss), however helps mould a very young brain on specific brands that flows from dirt until they are old enough to buy a road bike.
I also think to get young riders in the future we need something like ninja turtles or justice leage( just super heroes)cartoons (anime even ALL on motorcycles. Or some show that appeals to younger people where not all riders are depicted as assholes that drink and do drugs.
If they want more riders, they'll have to sell at a loss. There's no other option. They tried for to long price people out and now *they* have to pay the price. The goal should be to get as many riders in on the brand as possible. They need to realize that more people need to *be able to buy* their motorcycles before they'll buy their motorcycles.
Yeah but these kids today right out of college making 150K a year. Kids right out of HS making 80-90K in the tech industry. The price of the bike aren't the problem. The lack of interest of riding in general and the appeal of the bikes to those that do ride is the issue.
@tkchillin2065 Do you mean all of "these kids" are making that kind of money? 150k puts you in the top 10% of income, and almost no one under 30 is making anywhere close to that. The vast, *VAST* majority of young people cannot afford or justify buying a brand new Harley Davidson.
@MiketheNerdRanger Don't you see. The company's don't give a shit about the low income part of society. They definitely have a sales Forcast and it's targeted on that top 10-20%. Also around here, several HD dealers are also selling Royal Enfield and Can-am. If you can't afford the Harley, they still got a bike for you. Smart!
Fire the Nazi CEO. I promote supporting the dealer with parts and shop work but boycott HD until that woke CEO is out. Color? 😂 HD colors are mostly boring but I do like the purple and red this year (at a $2000 uptick). HD clothing is so gawdy. Hire someone who know clothing design and stop making them overseas. It costs them $5 a tshirt at most but they’re charging $45….. for a damn tshirt. HD charges up the ass for service. The triple oil check is more than an oil change on my Range Rover. WTF. It’s rediculous to ask why HD is having trouble. Ask when will they take steps to stop the bleeding of customer loss.
Harley had the street 500 for $6,800 bucks. No one bought it.
@@ejdtm like you say maybe with a bike that actually looks good and a good marketing drive, it could work. Gotta do something to change the idea here in America anyway that Harley’s have to be huge monsters. Maybe a really good looking under 1000cc and under 10k bike with good marketing could do it.
They forgot to make the bike good though. For an example of a good entry level motorcycle from a premium brand, see the new Triumph 400.
@@jakeviolet2195 for sure, if they do it right and actually put some marketing behind it and make a bike that looks decent, it could work. But the other part of all this is mr Germany is looking for profit margin and a bike under 10k wouldn’t bring that. That’s the big issue I see.
@@jakeviolet2195 unfortunately, remember Zeitz’ strategy is not to sell more bikes to more different types of people and that’s the issue. He’s doubling down on the doctor and dentist and C suite executives like himself that will sit in the garage for all but a couple hundred miles a season.
No one bought it because it looked like a Honda parts bin bike. It still had no power, no character, horrible handling and bad brakes, and it cost the same as a Rebel 1100 and more than a Yamaha Bolt. And those bikes at least have good power, good handling and good brakes. So, the only reason to buy one is if you were already sold on HD as a brand, but it lacked the character to be a true Harley.
Its pretty impressive what harley did back in 2017. When they produced that streetrod 750. Inverted forks, dual disk, piggyback shocks, 6 speed, made in america and for less than 9 grand. I think harley had the formula right. Just possibly bad timing. Id like to see them bring something like that out again. But with revmax based 500 and 750. I remember when the revmax was first introduced, it was being reported that it would be a modular platform that would be produced in 1250, 975, 750 and 500cc varients. I think now would be the perfect time to pull out those others out.
Those single cylinder bikes are ok. But i think if harley stuck with the vtwin. In these smaller bikes. It would set them apart from the competition. As everyone seems to be going to parallel twins and singles as well as KTM dying and Ducati going v4. The vtwin is actually unique these days.
It was too little, too late. You could get a Japanese bike for 7 grand that looked better and would outperform it in every metric. They were headed in the right direction, but they gave up too soon. If they had committed to the market segment, and spent the last 8 years improving the bikes, they might be back in the game by now.
NOT made in America
@@frankfurther3828 all the streets sold in America, were made in America. So...
@@jakeviolet2195 they were on the right track. I was excited for that bike when it dropped and followed it fairly closely. I remember the comparison one magazine did. Between it and the fz07 (today's mt07). And yeah it was underpowered for sure but the main issue was the weight. The streetrod outweighed it by over 100lbs. Still, it didn't do too terrible. Especially when you consider it's being compared to what's arguably the king of these middleweight naked bikes, the mt07 and it was Harley's first attempt. But it destroyed any Harley being produced at the time, in a performance sense. I think this revolution max engine and chassis has solved the power and weight issues of the past. I was shocked when I noticed the new nightster had comparable weight and power compared to a Kawasaki z900.
@@super16g123 partially assembled in America, Jochen Jr
Thats right
Does Mercedes have an entry level car. Hell no. Does Porsche have an entry level car? Hell no. Does ANY Aspirational Brand have an entry level product. OF COURSE NOT! Name ONE brand that is both high-end and mass-market value priced. They don’t exist, because having mass market value products, destroys the perception of your brand as high-end. Just take an entry level class in marketing and stop with the baseless beginner bike nonsense.
lol yes Mercedes has an entry level car A-Class.
Everything you just said was wrong
Ducati - the scrambler entry level
Google before you type
2025 prices are going up because of the costs of materials. Some conman decided tariffs would be good for American businesses.
You have to nuts to buy a Harley they are not good bike they have bad brakes,they have lots of problems. They put plastic in the valve Train. And most of them you have to put in thousands of dollars to get them to be right. No thanks.
Been saying this for years. Harley needs a gateway drug to its brand. Ford did it with the Fiesta and Focus and now with the Eco Sport. No money in them, but it gets them into the brand. I own various bikes, Harley, Honda and KTM. I love the Street Bob, but for a lot less money, I could have gotten an arguably better bike. But I grew up around them and blessed that I can afford whatever bike I want. I'm also at the age of the "dying breed." How many new riders can walk in and drop $20K on a Softail or even $15K on a Sportster? Probably close to zero. They need that $8K gateway drug bike. He'll even Ducati have a bike just under $10K. Also get away from all that woke shit. Buyers want a good product at a good price. I actually have some gay friends, when they ask me about a product, usually guns (retired Marine) they never ask about the manufacturers DEI program.
Less expensive bike, yes, a😢 "440?", nope, too small, especially an "Indian" made version. Majority of Americans won't go for it. Lower priced (2024) RG's and SG's is where they want to be. Dump the 23's - lesser features than the 24's.
I have no valuable reasons ( in Europe) to buy a Harley since the momment I bought a Moto Guzzi. I like Harleys, but they are not reasonable, by any mean; even Sportsters and Nightsters. Too tech. Too powerful to european roads. Softails are expensive exclusive and sensorial experiences at slow paces in Europe. Tourings and CVO's are monsters here; only for status purposes.
HD tried with the Street which could've be a success if they had spent more time on design. It was too bland.
The X could be a decent city commuter. I ride my scooter to commute not my Softail.
Folk will shit talk this bike...who cares not all of us want a tourer.
@@metcruza5536 true, maybe with a nice looking bike and a good marketing strategy it could get off the ground!
I do want a tourer, but not for 27k. Screw that.
@ closer to 30k in most cases if you get a premium color option and aren’t a chrome person and want black trimming
Stop regurgitating the same designs.. and bring back the road king standard.. too many blacked out SPECIALS nowadays.. chrome is classic HD ❤
Thank you!! I am SO over this "blacked out" trend the past 10 years on bikes. Chrome might be more work to keep clean and shiny, but it looks SO much better. As you said: classic. My 2016 Road King is all chrome, white wall tires, and teal/white two-tone paint. It's gorgeous.
Harley did the small cruiser before and it was a dud.
Harley also has a low price cruiser = Nightster. Sure it's over $10,000 but it's LEAGUES better in every way compared to a Honda rebel of a Kawasaki Vulcan so that is an invalid point.
The point of a small, $6,000 base little bike could be helpful. But HD isn't about cheap so cheaping out isn't the sole way to propel them into the next phase of life.
Only HD could be stupid enough to think that the solution to not being able to sell your current stoke of bikes because they are way overpriced is to make sure your next years bijes are even more expensive 😂🤡. Seriously you cant even make this ish up.
They tried to add an affordable bike with the Street 500/750 and couldn't sell enough to make it a viable addition to their lineup
Who wants a 440 cc bike?
Younger beginner riders do, but it's gotta be cheap and good. Some examples of how to do it right are the Suzuki DRZ400, Honda CB500X, Triumph Speed 400 and Royal Enfield Himalayan.
I went to a HD dealer to get some gloves, saw some idiots trying to buy a bike. I asked them what they liked and wanted to do with the bike. They had no answers. I then told the the three people and the two sales man, "if you want to have fun, then get a light bike, if you don't then get one of these pos."
I was on my z125CC. My other bikes....lol.
Uh huh. Cool story. What kind of gloves did you get?
@@samhard1986😅