Love this portable QRP setup. I ordered everything you listed here. Never thought of putting all three radial wires on one lug. Anxious to put this together and try it out with my FT-818!
Thanks, Cliff. I saw this a couple of years ago and bought the antenna and tripod due to this recommendation. I use the Wolf River Mini coil with it. I also used three large round terminal rings at the end of the radial. I slip each on before screwing each tripod leg with three nuts I also added to the configuration. Sets up quickly and works well. 73, N1DEL John
I run a Superantennas MP-1 vertical at the house and portable. Great antenna, the stock radials will get you on the air but I ended up making a few of my own with random bits of wire (even used some RG-6 with the inner conductor and shield shorted since the Directv installer left a huge spool of it in my attic haha) and the difference is extremely noticeable. The next investment will be the 17ft telescoping whip you mentioned though. That way I could run 20M and up coil-less and with the extra 10 feet over the stock whip I'd imagine a nice performance increase will be had on the lower bands.
Awesome video! I was liking it when you were just talking about the antenna, but loved that you rode in on a Trucker! Been riding Surly bikes way before i for a license. Got a CrossCheck and a Karate Monkey myself. Good to know that there are hams out there who know steel is real.
Cool on the CC and KM! Love my LHT, Donald. I bought the frame and had a local bike shop build it up for me years ago. Surly came out with a disc-brake version later and I kinda wish I had that frame... but it's not something I'm going to switch to anytime soon.
Great presentation, you're making it sound so simple! LOL! Perhaps, a larger photographic tripod would be more stable? It would also elevate the radiating element somewhat from the ground, not that this is critical. Thanks for a very informative video Cliff.
Hope all is well with you Cliff, RBN shows you on the air recently. There have been a few decent 17, 15, 10, and now 12 meter openings recently, things are looking up (made a QSO on 12M with Spain this afternoon from Maine). I’m starting to look at some options for next season QRP in the field. I’m normally a “throw a wire in a tree/pole and let the ATU work it out guy” but with 10-20, I can put together a full size vertical. I’ve got a handful of portable verticals, haven’t put together a radial bundle yet though, that will be a winter project. 73 W1ND
I use a medium sized camera tripod I picked up at a garage sale for like $2. If you get the 17ft vertical as a combo withe the mount, cool, and radials the mount works perfectly on the neck of the tripod.
I have the element and the clamp. The element is not bad. If your planning to go backpacking, it is way heavy. The clamp has a couple of what I consider design flows. First off; one of the bolts holding the SO-239 onto the clamp is behind the connector. The only way to get an Allen wrench on it is to take the SO-239 off. This of courses takes another wrench. I generally leave the center bolt finger loose and only tighten the outer bolt. My second complaint is that the jaw is made of sheet metal. Sturdy engulf but the contact surface for the clamp is so small that you can easily damage whatever you are clamping it to before you get a sturdy clamp. If the wend catches then antenna and causes the clamp to slip, you are probably at least taking paint off.
Hmmmmm... Just a thought. You might want to think about putting three small bags in your Go-Bag. Preferably cloth, for ballast bags. You could fold them up very small to fit in the Go-Bag, but fill them with whatever material you could find in the area of deployment if you need to baton down the legs of your tripod. That is, if conditions make it necessary. Maybe some string or 550 cord to tie them shut too. Just a thought. Thanks for the video. Very well thought out plan!!!
Cliff, you can use some 3/8-24 threaded rod that is longer to offer better stability so that MJF whip doesnt get bent when it gets knocked over. That tripod is ok with the mp-1
Great ideas for the radials mounting. and a great video on a great portable antenna idea.. With the recent tornadoes in our area, I got to thinking recently on a making a more portable temporary set up somewhat similar to the buddy-stick system, but with parts I already have at hand. I just got finished threading a second 3/8 aluminum rod ($4 each from the local hardware store) on each end to 3/8-24 thread to add a 2nd 36 inch extension to my 12 foot MFJ telescopic whip and then I ran across your video. ( I'm mainly using parts from the MFJ-1625 apartment / balcony antenna with the tuner, and mounting it on a heavier aluminum surveyor's tripod that I already have.) Being that I am somewhat handicapped, this is intended as a mobile stored and carry system and then set it up near by as I will not be walking far. I also have an older MFJ-1424 mobile bug catcher coil mounted out in my shop loading a gutter instead of using the 5 1/2 foot whip that came with it. (Living in an HOA neighbor hood, you just have to improvise to stay stealthy.) What suggestions would you have suggest to improve this set up in my situation? It just seemed at the time, that with using a combination of either the 12 foot or the 5 1/2 foot telescopic whip from the mobile bug catcher, in combination with the two 36 "extensions, or in combination with the coil and perhaps taps method, this just might work well for QRP. My plan for radials are 2 - 50 foot rolls of $4 speaker wire, cut specifically with two for each ham band (but 30 and 80 meters) and then connected to ring terminals as yours are done. Living here with the HOA restrictions on visible antennas, I am using a MFJ-931 artificial ground and a single tuned radial "cluster" made as I just described. Your video gave me some new thoughts on the radials side of things. I had also made an adapter to make the window tuner directly into a MFJ-1644 type short whip tuner some time ago, but for the tripod mount, it will be using a mobile's mirror mount type PL-259 to 3/8-24 whip adapter since there is no way it could support what will eventually be up to an 18 foot whip and loading coil assembly by itself. And the tripod will perhaps hold a coax current balun as well.but with QRP it may not even be necessary.
Congrats on your ingenuity to roll your own portable antenna system. I don't think I have anything to add, engineering-wise. One thing that does come to mind is that a single wire used as the radiating element is as good as the telescopic whip. A compact fiberglass mast with a wire taped to it can function as a full-sized 33' radiating element for a 1/4 wave vertical on 40m. So, you can have a no-compromise (no coils) antenna on up to 40 meters, if you want. The fiberglass mast can be held in place with a home-brewed guy-ring with 3 lightweight ropes coming down to the ground and help in place with tent stakes. Just something to think about. My 16' telescopic whip could be replaced by a fiberglass fishing pole and a 16' length of wire. I should play around with this... - Cliff
@@QRPSchool Thanks for the great information. Today I did some calculations on using these parts and found that I can get a quarter wave radiator for 14 MHz with the 12 foot whip, the 36" extension and a twenty inch extension, and the 12 foot and a 12 inch gives me one for 18 MHz. Higher than this I use the whip, lower than 14 MHz, I can add the coil and tuner or a section of wire to the top as you pointed out to avoid the coil.. It will be the simplest free standing rigid vertical set up I can make portable other than a wire or getting a new pole as you suggest or spending much. So I'm re cutting and retreading the 2nd 36" extension that I made yesterday to make up a 12 and a 20 inch extension. It's a bit over, but I can tune the top of the telescopic whip. I don't really need to carry the 5 1/2 foot whip along. I also noticed I can use a CB whip 102" and the 20" and 12" to get on 21 MHz as a quarter wave radiator as well. I might mount one of those CB whips on the truck's rear bumper anyway. In the past of long ago, my other public camping site antenna rig was a 10 foot mast of EMT, a ground rod to plug it on to, with various HF mobile whips or ham sticks on top, and 16 wire radiators around it to support the pole. I called it my "mini tower". But I thought at the time that this portable but semi permanent rig could also be a tee pee style of tent all by itself if I just added a cover. Things have come a long way since back then. I still have it stored around here somewhere, but I couldn't use it either in the HOA restricted neighbor hood that I now live in with out it being hidden. But I had accumulated enough HF whips over time that I could make HF whip DI-poles for the attic with them to add to the trapped antenna that is hidden up there. Thanks again for the reply and the great information.
While the SWR was good by the measurements, the 3/8 aluminum rod itself is not strong enough after all, one bent some in a gust of wind. I'm thinking more on your suggested method now
I would question how the tripod base would do with any breeze or wind without some guys or other protection. It does work without any outside forces. With my SuperAntenna and the coil it needs some help, a weight underneath or sitting on the kegs, small stakes of on grass or some other support. Dave K8WPE
Nice video Cliff simple and well put over 10/10 mate. Am thinking of buying a 1979 just wonder if you can deploy without antenna analyzer and via ldg atu?
+Nivek William No antenna tuner needed for 10m - 20m. You just extend sections until you've got a good SWR for the band you're using. I have a Youkits antenna analyzer that is very compact so, when I deploy the vertical, I take the small analyzer with me, just to make sure I've got it set right. HOWEVER, it is possible to use a permanent marker (Sharpie brand is popular) and mark the sections directly on the antenna. So, you'd start pulling out the sections and, using your SWR meter or analyzer, place a mark on the antenna for 10m. Keep extending sections until you've got a good SWR on 15m and mark that place on the antenna. Keep extending sections and mark 17m, for example. After that, you could set it up without an analyzer. But, since I want to check it and make sure it's good, I carry my little analyzer. Transmitting and watching the SWR meter will verify the SWR, though. As usual, I opt for overkill! - Cliff
Might this work? Unscrew the 239 to reveal the bolt to the antenna connector. Take yiur radials terminated with ring connectors and thread them onto the bolt. Then reattach the 239 to the ant connector and tighten down. Approx 9 radials maybe 12 possible. I am using 18awg. Just d thought it up. I am sure some one else has. I really appreciate your clearly organized content.
centexn Yes. Any way to connect radials to the shield (ground) side of the coax will work just fine. As for the number of radials, 4 is good enough. Having 8 (or more) makes you feel better but your signal noticeably louder to the receiving station. - Cliff
Hey Cliff, pertaining to QRP would you say you find it easier to deploy EFHW wire antenna for multi and operations over having to erect this more stationary antenna system and adjust the telescopic lengths when changing bands? Love telescopic antennas but 17' is massive, guess I could use it as a trekking pole on the hike. Great video, love your dedication to QRP.
I don't use a vertical very often... mostly have settled on linked dipoles from SOTABEAMS. But, don't forget that there's nothing magical about that 17' telescopic antenna except that it's self-supporting at the base. A 16.5' piece of wire will radiate just as well. So, a lightweight fiberglass fishing pole with a 16.5' piece of wire taped to it would be fine. Or that 16.5' piece of wire could be hoisted up into a tree branch if you are going to operate in a place with trees. In that case, you could put the radiating element and 4 radials coiled up into a plastic quart-sized bag. A different length radiator can be used for another band, of course. Since the radials are detuned when lying on the ground, you can cut different radiating wires for different bands without having to have an additional set of radials for each band. You may not get a 1:1 SWR match with short radials but it will work. - Cliff
Nice video, I just subscribed! What about a single counterpoise wire like used on the Chameleon vertical antenna system? I just ordered the CHA MPAS system and it uses a single counterpoise. I believe that does make it somewhat directional? That reminds me of a question. On an antenna system with a single counterpoise, is it advantageous or counterproductive to also drive a steel or copper rode/stake in the ground as an additional ground system? Both the counterpoise and ground wire attached where the counterpoise is attached. Is that overkill? Thanks in advance. -- Steve....
Steve - a single counterpoise will work. My brother made a quick & dirty 10m vertical with a single counterpoise and talked to me from TN when I was on the island of Bonaire. However, there are gains to be made by having a radial system. I like using at least 4 radials, if the situation allows. That said, the gains fall off quickly... for example, having 32 radials doesn't help you much vs. 8 radials. There was a chart in QST magazine a few years ago that showed this. The 40 radials I buried in my yard at the base of my vertical (Hustler brand) is total overkill. As for driving a rod into the ground... it won't really help with your signal. The radials will do all the work. But, it can be part of a safety system for electrical grounding. In full disclosure, my ham shack is on the second floor of my home and I do not have any ground rod. That's not exactly a "best practice" but my situation is the same as many, many other hams around the world. - Cliff
Hey Cliff - I bought one of those tripods but it doesn’t have that stud on top. Is that insulated to keep the vertical from shorting to the base/legs? I’ve just been screwing that vertical directly into the base but can never get a good SWR. Maybe that’s why 😂
I wanted to ask... can this rig be used with a qcx tranceiver to good effect. I have one in 40m. I work offshore and was looking for something I could stick up and tear down really easy when we were on our downtime? I could mount something to a rail and that’s generally what I’m looking for. I don’t need something “amazing” just something I could enjoy and learn with
Looking at building this same setup....what kind of radial wire did you use exactly? It looks really nice and tangle hassle free as opposed to say, speaker wire. Thanks for the video.
+Tommy N I'm using 14 gauge wire that I bought from DX Engineering on a spool. It's multi-strand wire and it coils okay as compared to what you'd find at Home Depot. That said, it's still a bit of a tangled mess. I've got 3 wires soldered together on one lug... and 8 sets of those lugs. So, that's 24 wires in all. It takes a few minutes when I deploy to connect the lugs to ground and then comb my fingers through the 3 wires per lug to straighten them out. I should make some "spacers" to keep the wires apart... think short sections of finger-width PVC pipe with holes drilled in it. This would work but it would really bulk-up the packaging. -Cliff
Kevin OKeefe i haven’t tried it but I’m certain it would work. I’ve worked a lot of DX from my car using a Lil Tarheel antenna... which is a coil with a whip on top. Normally I use my SOTABEAMS linked dipole for 40m. - Cliff
+Luciano Gasparini Hello, Luciano. My soldering station is a Hakko 936. It is no longer in production. I would recommend a Hakko soldering station like the Hakko FX888D. You may want to get a smaller tip for your projects. It uses the Hakko T18 series tips. You can see the list of tips here: www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/series_t18.html
Hey, I have a question as I want to build this antenna. If the ground de-tunes the radials anyway (I've heard that from many others also) how did you get the right frequencies with a low SWR? And if they are de-tuned anyway, what's the need to cut them to exact length?
Here is a link to that MFJ Whip on the DX Engineering website: www.dxengineering.com/parts/mfj-1979 Extend/Collapse the antenna as needed to get the lowest SWR on your desired band. But, don't sweat it too much. Nobody can hear the difference on the receiving end if your antenna SWR is 1:1 or 2:1. Two to one is perfectly fine.
+Luciano Gasparini I love mine. The one I have is from Sparkfun... www.sparkfun.com/products/10706 It is wonderful for heating multiple pins at the same time. So, it's good for SMD work, fixing a mistake by removing a part that you soldered in the wrong place, and for salvaging parts from old electronic devices. I didn't have one for a long time but I am glad I have one now. When you need it, you really need it! - Cliff
Just for comparison, next time you have it up, can you bond the ground radials to a metal stick into the ground near the base? I know they say it doesn't need to be grounded but I was wondering if it makes a difference in rx and tx.
A vertical needs a Ground but that's what the radials are for. You wouldn't be able to tell a difference if I connected the Ground side of the antenna to the soil... which is nowhere near as electrically conductive than the wire radials on the ground. - Cliff
Hello! I have three wires for each "radial"... they are cut to 1/4 wavelength for 10m. 15m, and 20m and then soldered together with a lug at the end where they are to be attached to the ground side of the antenna connector. So, the approximate lengths of the three wires that comprise each radial are 8', 12', and 16' (2.5m, 3.5m, and 5m). The actual lengths are not super-critical as they become detuned when placed on the ground. - Cliff
You said that you had 8 groups of 3 wires for radials, I assume 1 wire for 20M, 1 for 15M and one for 10M. Is that correct? Very nice setup - I already have that whip and think you've just made my portable EK1A ops much nicer!
+Kevin Timm That's right, Kevin. I cut 3 radials... for 20m, 15m, and 10m and then twisted the ends together and soldered them to a lug. I've got 8 sets of those. Glad to have helped. Have fun out there! - Cliff
Do you find that the MFJ-1979 telescopic whip collapses on itself over time? I have heard this somewhere. I imagine temperature variations over time can cause the metal to contract or expand.... Thanks in advance. Steve....
Not at all, Steve. It's solid. But, here's a tip for you... if you're overzealous when extending the sections, you can pull a section out of socket. Once you do that, you can't put it back together again without having to tape that section in place. So, be careful when you get to the end of a section while extending it. - Cliff
do the ground radials have to be connected to rods driven into the ground? will this system work for the small hand helds like the baofeng uv-5r and kenwood th-d72a? (I have both radios)
This antenna is for HF radios... not VHF/UHF like the hand-held radios you mention. But, to answer the first question... no, the radials can just lay on the ground. This is a Radio Frequency ground as opposed to Electrical ground. Thanks -Cliff
Cliff, I'm a HAM in the making right now. Working on getting my tests done. Been looking at portable antennas for a K2 Elecraft. Could you supply links possibly for your 17ft antenna setup? Hopefully I might make contact with you seeing i'm in IL which isn't very far from you. Thanks, Gabe
+Gabe Kremer Hello, Gabe! Here, in the description of this youtube video, I've included the links to the items shown. You may have to click something below the video's description that says, "SHOW MORE" in order to see the links. Let me know if you can't see it and I'll figure out a way to send you the links. Thanks - Cliff
Hi Cliff, awesome video! I use an MFJ-1899 loaded whip that works pretty well w/ my FT-817nd. I have a question about your radials. Are the groups of 3 radials the same length? I thought you said you have different length radials for different bands, but then you said you hook up 4 of them... so does that mean each group of 3 has 3 different length radials? How long is each one? I didn't think that would work, but I think I'm misunderstanding. Thanks for your videos, I hope you will keep making more. Thanks! 73 Craig KM4QID
Hey, Craig. Each lug that I attach to Ground has 3 wires soldered to it. They are one quarter wavelength on 20m, 15m, and 10m. I have 8 sets of these for a total of 24 radials. I hope that clears things up. I probably could have done a better job of describing that in the video. Thanks for the kind words! - Cliff
+QRP School Thank you for clarifying that, Cliff! I thought that's what you meant, and I wasn't aware that'd work well. Guess I was wrong (happily). All the best. Craig
which by the way, no reason I couldn't add them for the WARC bands as well right? It'd be five wires, so might have to get a larger lug, or figure it out.
I know you're only joking but, let's see... "Gotham Vertical" was a 23 foot vertical with no radials that allegedly did all ham bands down to 80m. to me, this is the Sea Monkeys of antennas. (If that design truly worked well, we'd all have them, wouldn't we?) - Cliff
What would you recommend (home built only please) for a 40M indoor for QRP as I am in an apartment with limited space and cannot use an outdoor? I've looked everywhere and the only thing I can find is some kind of loop? Are these efficient radiators for that kind of use?
+Digger D Transmitting from an apartment on 40m is a challenge. I'm wondering if you could deploy a single, stealthy wire antenna - even if temporarily - when you want to transmit. Is there a tree somewhere nearby? Do you have a balcony? If so, a "buddipole" antenna deployed as a shortened horizontal dipole might be a possibility. A magnetic loop antenna like the MFJ-1788 is a good antenna although it's not very efficient on 40m. If you put 100 watts into it, you might get the equivalent of 30 watts out... which is fine but not optimal. - Cliff
I have most of that equipment you used in the park. But I don't use it because Central Park in New York City has lots of people around and all I would need is one gust of wind to tip over my MFJ-1979 and hit someone to be in trouble. If I pick too isolated a spot in the park, then I have isolated myself too much and can be subject to some thief. 73 de N2LRB
I understand. But, what if you used the plastic stake and clamp as shown at 3:12 in the video? With the antenna screwed into the clamp and the clamp attached to that stake in the ground, no gust of wind will take it down. Don't forget this antenna is a 1/4 wave vertical on 20m so it's only 16.5' tall. It's been two or three years since I've roamed Central Park but I don't remember it being packed cheek to jowl. I really believe you can do this! Tape an American flag to the top of it if you think you might need the stealth. Where there's a will, there's a way! :-) -cliff
@@QRPSchool Unfortunately New York City's Central Park does not allow for 1. hang/drapping any wires over trees, and 2. any holes to be dug or any stakes planted. I call it the 'Park as a Museum" concept. No climbing tree, no leaning on or tying banners between trees. And there are plenty of Park Rangers around to give you a $2,500 fine should you break their rules. Basically you can walk around but not touch anything. The only except is that one can sit on the grass in areas where it is permitted. This is what happens when tree huggers run the show.
@@N2LRB Well, that's unfortunate. To my way of thinking, there's no better way to tell a tree you love them than by tossing a wire into their branches and working DX on 5 watts! :-)
Hi Cliff, As a newcomer to the hobby I've been getting a LOT out of your videos. I really want to start doing some HF fieldwork and I was wondering about the 'superwhip' which newsuperantenna sell for use with that low profile tripod. Is there a reason you went with the MFJ? Could you recommend one over the other? I ask because the superwhip boasts various pre-made coils and accessories which they claim will let you work bands down to 80m - and whilst that sounds attractive to a new ham, I'm worried it may be a compromise too far. Any thoughts you have on choosing between the two would be great. Also, is there any maintenance technique that will prevent the sections from getting electrically noisy and changing resonant length as they flex slighty in light wind. My instincts tell me that this is a likely issue with telescopics as they age. So, how do we keep our whips working? Perhaps a conductive grease? Tiny jubilee clips for geriatric whips? HI HI Thanks for doing what you do : ) Gary M6UDS
Hello, Gary. Thanks for taking the time to watch my videos! A key thing to remember is that EVERYTHING WORKS... it's just a matter of efficiency. Many QSO's have been made (back in the day) when a light bulb was connected to the radio while tuning up the amplifier. But, we can all agree that a light bulb is a terrible antenna. When band conditions are good, a bad antenna will yield contacts. I chose the MFJ whip because it is a full-length 1/4 wave radiator on 20m and up. So, it's efficient (with my radials connected) as compared to a shortened radiator that uses a coil to electrically lengthen the whip. Given a choice of using a short whip with a coil for 30m/40m/80m, I'd rather use a dipole antenna... a full-sized wire antenna. It's much more efficient for my QRP-level signal. Having said all that, I've made contacts all over Europe from my car. I have a Lil' Tarheel antenna which uses a coil and short whip (like the SuperAntenna). Again, everything works when conditions are good. I would not discourage you from getting the antenna you're asking about. Just know that it is a compromise antenna. Given that I'm already compromising my power output by limiting myself to 5 watts, I want the most efficient antenna I can get! As for maintenance of a whip, I've done nothing to mine except wipe it down so that I don't store it with any moisture on it. It would not be a bad idea to use dielectric grease on the overlapping joints but I haven't take the trouble to do so. (I'm kind of a slacker!) . - Cliff
Interesting low visibility. Would this type antenna work on a residential area where homes are closely built (18' between homes looking from street and about 60' from back to back or mounted on the backside of the roof ? 73 KM4UQU
Hello, Mike. It would work. However, it would only work for a single band. You wouldn't have easy access to the stainless steel whip if you wanted to adjust it to work other bands. If you have any trees in your backyard, you could, instead, run some wire radials slightly underground around a tree... and then run some coax to that tree, digging a little trench to hide it barely underground... and then clip a radiating wire to the feedpoint where the radials and coax comes together. You could just use some invisible fishing line over a branch as a pulley to haul up a 16.5' wire as the vertical radiator for 20m, for example. You'd have other radiating wires to use for other bands. To change bands, you'd untie the fishing line, bring down the radiating wire, attach the new radiating wire for the desired band, haul it back up and tie off the fishing line to keep it vertical. Just a thought... - Cliff
Just found your channel tonight, been enjoying your videos. We have similar interest, Ive just really got to get over my mental block causing me CW stage fright! 73 de Seth W8FG
+W8FG Hi, Seth. I think I need to do a video about CW stage fright. I struggled with this for a long time, myself. I had to force myself to make contacts in order to get over it. I eventually discovered that there were a lot of people who were professional CW guys and that plenty of operators made as many or more mistakes than I did - and still do. I think most hams are compassionate and forgiving of those of us who aren't CW speed demons. The ones who are better/faster that we are have all been through the same portion of the learning curve where we find ourselves now. See my reply to another comment you made on another video where I recommend you join the Straight Key Century Club. That will help you a lot... it helped me, anyway. - cliff
In Stock here today: www.dxengineering.com/parts/cha-jawmount?seid=dxese1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwnueFBhChARIsAPu3YkRAaailux1cKzABN_bl39XbgW0NGv2PLvxlWrrbe5XTKYv6u88E0CgaAp9PEALw_wcB Out of stock here today: www.qsradio.com/tablet/index.html#!/Claw%E2%84%A2-Mount/p/51822117
Here's where I get them: www.sotabeams.co.uk/antenna-wire-winders/ SOTABEAMS has many, many great products - especially for those who work portable. - Cliff
+Elimelec Medina If you have a reliable way to connect the ground/shield of the coax to the salt water, you could use the salt water for the ground plane. The radiation patern would be distorted toward the ocean, but that's probably not a bad thing. -Cliff
For 20m and up, great. (Below 20m, an antenna of this type is horribly inefficient. The diameter of the loop is simply too small relative to the wavelength.) - Cliff
Hello, Barry. I bought it years ago and I purchased it at REI. I believe this is the item: www.rei.com/product/866235/eagle-creek-original-pack-it-cleandirty-cube
MFJ speaks of every band except 20 needing a loaded coil. This detail was not mentioned in your vid. are there extenuating circumstances? Which coil would you recommend?
+centexn Hello. This telescopic antenna, when fully extended, presents a 1/4 wave radiator for 20 meters. By partially collapsing it, a 1/4 wave radiator can be created for 17m, 15m, 12m, and 10m. None of these 5 bands needs a loading coil as the telescopic antenna allows the creation of an electrically accurate 1/4 wavelength radiator for each of these 5 bands. Now, if you want to use this on 30 meters, 40 meters, or 80 meters, the antenna would be too short to form a 1/4 wave vertical. This is where the loading coil comes into play. You'd end up using something like the MFJ-67 loading coil and tapping into it at the appropriate place on the coil to get 30 meters and 40 meters to work. In essence, you're creating what many hams use for a mobile HF antenna. With mobile "screwdriver" antennas (named due to the use of electric screwdriver motors in the early models), you are rotating a coil to shorten or lengthen the coil at the tapping point so that the antenna is electrically a 1/4 radiator. Because I primarily work portable during the day, I mostly work 20 meters and up. I don't have a loading coil for my vertical. If I want to work 40 meters, I use a wire dipole antenna. I don't ever work 80 meters. On my car, I have a Little Tarheel II antenna - which is a "screwdriver antenna" consisting of a whip and a long loading coil so that I can use it with any band from 80 meters through 10 meters. -Cliff
Thank you for your detailed response. Now, if I may ask you another product related question. The antenna you review is simplicity itself. On the other hand Super Antenna, which provides the support base for your nifty whip, offers a shorter coil antenna ideal for portability. One might think such an antenna rugged in the extreme, however, life has taught me if something can fail it will. Short of being physically demolished I cant believe a coil could suffer an operational failure. What are your thoughts?? I really appreciate your QRP School channel and your willingness to share your knowledge. Centexn
+centexn The Super Antenna looks good to me. I'm confident it would work. You'll need some wire radials to connect to ground... the vertical component has to have something to make up the other half of the antenna (besides the shield of your coax!). If I am hesitant about the Super Antenna, it would just be because of the short whip. A 1/4 wave vertical for 20 meters is normally 16.5 feet tall. Super Antenna is doing it with something that's only 7 feet tall. There has to be a trade-off when you substitute a loading coil for electrical length. If an antenna with a loading coil was as efficient as a larger antenna, nobody would be using tall antennas, right? You don't see huge coils with tiny whips being sold or endorsed by anyone. So, to my way of thinking, the Super Antenna is like a car (HF mobile) antenna. If I had the option, I'd prefer a full-sized antenna every time. However, I've worked a TON of countries all over Europe and South America on my Little Tarheel antenna on my car - which is probably no bigger than the Super Antenna! As to the coil suffering operational failure, I'm sure it's possible for the contacts to become "dirty" over time -although there's probably a way to clean the coil. With my MFJ 16' whip, I accidentally pulled the antenna out of the bottom section. Once you do that you can't re-insert the sections back into the bottom and crimp it so that it won't happen again. So, now, I pull the second section as far as I dare out of the bottom section and then use a couple of inches of electrical tape to make sure it doesn't collapse. I guess the moral of that story is that anything that can fail will fail... but we find a way to fix it or live with it somehow. Just remember: Everything works... it' just a matter of efficiency. You could hook up a light bulb to your antenna jack and make some short distance contacts (across the room, street, neighborhood?) but I think we'd all agree that a lightbulb is not a great antenna! I'm sure you'll make some good contacts on the Super Antenna. Good luck! - Cliff
That would definitely work. I could clamp it to my rack. When I'm on my bicycle, I tend to just take a wire antenna with me because it's more compact and lighter. - Cliff
@@QRPSchool I was thinking the seatpost, but from the video can't really determine the size. The idea should simplify your setup and reduce weight. I enjoyed your video. 73s
If I set up this tripod mount in my apartment at 30 feet in the air on third floor. and I run the radial wires spread out across the floor, would that work? Its all 30 feet in the air. There is no way to get the radials down to earth flat ground in this situation inside my apartment.
+Kevin J Hello, Kevin. The tripod would have a vertical antenna on top of it that would extend up to 16+ feet in order to work the 20 meter band. You'd need very high ceilings to do this inside an apartment! Maybe you're talking about doing this on a balcony? If so, the radials could be on the floor of the balcony. Ideally you'd want the radials to be spread around evenly without overlapping each other but you just do the best you can in your situation and make contacts instead of worrying about it not being optimal.
+QRP School I would actually think of using the ham stick solutions with the tripod, which have a shorter physical length, and smaller bandwidth corresponding. Then switch ham stick upon demand for a vertical solution on each band. The MFJ-1640T only has a length of 7 feet fully extended. Am able to tune it up with tuner, but am not getting out right now, and do not have radials (yet)
+Kevin J Okay, I understand. You will have a tough time making contacts with a hamstick inside a building. Much of the signal will be absorbed by the materials inside the building AND the radiation pattern will be badly distorted. You also run the risk of having your RF couple with wiring of devices around you, causing strange things to happen to appliances, etc. I know this isn't what you hoped to hear. It would be easier/better for you to put your hamstick on the roof of your car using a magnet mount and work stations in your car. Or go to a nearby park to work portable when you can. If you have a balcony, you can clamp an antenna to the railing using a Jaws clamp. Another option that sounds far-fetched (but is done every day) is to have a relative or friend let you set up a station at their house and then remote into it over the internet. I've done this many times while on vacation... taking a laptop on vacation then remoted into my computer at home, using my KX3 from another state or country. I should probably make a video about that, actually. - Cliff
actually I did want to hear this. It at least tells me what to have for expectations. What about a magnetic loop inside the apartment? Am reading that magnetic loops might work, but is it hype?
+Kevin J Magnetic loops DO work. I bought an Alexloop a few years ago and I recently purchased a used MFJ-1786 at a hamfest. The loops don't like to be near metal objects so you might need to put the loop very near a window or a wall that doesn't have metal studs or foil insulation. They work well on the higher bands but they are horribly inefficient on the lower bands. For example, the Alexloop is rated down to 7MHz for the 40 meter band. However, at that frequency, you're only putting out milliwatts - not watts. Now, at 20MHz and higher, it's great! Unfortunately, there's a lot of 40 meter activity in the evening when many of us have time to play radio. If you are able to use a magnetic loop antenna during the day on 14 MHz or higher, I recommend a magnetic loop. If you're hoping to work lower bands, you won't have any consistent luck with the Alexloop. MFJ makes a bigger loop that is welded and should do much better at the lower bands (40m and 30m) than the Alexloop. If you want to work 40 meters with a magnetic loop antenna, your best bet would be to make your own out of copper water pipe - and it would need to be bigger than the MFJ loop. (That's the problem with trying to use a small-ish loop for the lower bands... at those frequencies, the loop is a much smaller fraction of a wavelength than it is for higher frequencies.) - Cliff
This Wolf River Silver Bullet 1000 would be great. www.wolfrivercoils.com/order.html It's $60 but built like a tank. There's no reason that you couldn't "roll your own" by wrapping some PVC with insulated wire. I can't help you with that, as far as calculating the right length of wire.
Results of a survey of the "ins" and "outs" of portable operation of a ham radio station by the most active NPOTA Activators: www.learnerassociates.net/portableop/
Love this portable QRP setup. I ordered everything you listed here. Never thought of putting all three radial wires on one lug. Anxious to put this together and try it out with my FT-818!
Thanks, Cliff.
I saw this a couple of years ago and bought the antenna and tripod due to this recommendation. I use the Wolf River Mini coil with it. I also used three large round terminal rings at the end of the radial. I slip each on before screwing each tripod leg with three nuts I also added to the configuration. Sets up quickly and works well.
73, N1DEL John
I run a Superantennas MP-1 vertical at the house and portable.
Great antenna, the stock radials will get you on the air but I ended up making a few of my own with random bits of wire (even used some RG-6 with the inner conductor and shield shorted since the Directv installer left a huge spool of it in my attic haha) and the difference is extremely noticeable.
The next investment will be the 17ft telescoping whip you mentioned though. That way I could run 20M and up coil-less and with the extra 10 feet over the stock whip I'd imagine a nice performance increase will be had on the lower bands.
Thank you Cliff. I’m a retread in the hobby and your video help with lots of questions I had.
Glad to have helped, Allan. - Cliff
Very cool antenna! I have got to copy your idea. BTW, love that compact antenna analyzer!
Awesome video! I was liking it when you were just talking about the antenna, but loved that you rode in on a Trucker! Been riding Surly bikes way before i for a license. Got a CrossCheck and a Karate Monkey myself. Good to know that there are hams out there who know steel is real.
Cool on the CC and KM! Love my LHT, Donald. I bought the frame and had a local bike shop build it up for me years ago. Surly came out with a disc-brake version later and I kinda wish I had that frame... but it's not something I'm going to switch to anytime soon.
Great presentation, you're making it sound so simple! LOL!
Perhaps, a larger photographic tripod would be more stable? It would also elevate the radiating element somewhat from the ground, not that this is critical.
Thanks for a very informative video Cliff.
Hope all is well with you Cliff, RBN shows you on the air recently. There have been a few decent 17, 15, 10, and now 12 meter openings recently, things are looking up (made a QSO on 12M with Spain this afternoon from Maine). I’m starting to look at some options for next season QRP in the field. I’m normally a “throw a wire in a tree/pole and let the ATU work it out guy” but with 10-20, I can put together a full size vertical. I’ve got a handful of portable verticals, haven’t put together a radial bundle yet though, that will be a winter project.
73 W1ND
for anyone wondering: quick connect = spade terminals
Thanks! I ordered most everything!
Also, the radials that come with the mfj-2286 combo work on all bands by only adjusting the length of the whip.
thank you really good video well made really helpful. Please keep making them
I use a medium sized camera tripod I picked up at a garage sale for like $2. If you get the 17ft vertical as a combo withe the mount, cool, and radials the mount works perfectly on the neck of the tripod.
I have the element and the clamp. The element is not bad. If your planning to go backpacking, it is way heavy. The clamp has a couple of what I consider design flows. First off; one of the bolts holding the SO-239 onto the clamp is behind the connector. The only way to get an Allen wrench on it is to take the SO-239 off. This of courses takes another wrench. I generally leave the center bolt finger loose and only tighten the outer bolt. My second complaint is that the jaw is made of sheet metal. Sturdy engulf but the contact surface for the clamp is so small that you can easily damage whatever you are clamping it to before you get a sturdy clamp. If the wend catches then antenna and causes the clamp to slip, you are probably at least taking paint off.
Great idea - thanks for showing!
Hmmmmm... Just a thought. You might want to think about putting three small bags in your Go-Bag. Preferably cloth, for ballast bags. You could fold them up very small to fit in the Go-Bag, but fill them with whatever material you could find in the area of deployment if you need to baton down the legs of your tripod. That is, if conditions make it necessary. Maybe some string or 550 cord to tie them shut too. Just a thought. Thanks for the video. Very well thought out plan!!!
Cliff, you can use some 3/8-24 threaded rod that is longer to offer better stability so that MJF whip doesnt get bent when it gets knocked over. That tripod is ok with the mp-1
thanks! i enjoy very much your channel... very very very profesional and excellent, thanks for it
Great ideas for the radials mounting. and a great video on a great portable antenna idea.. With the recent tornadoes in our area, I got to thinking recently on a making a more portable temporary set up somewhat similar to the buddy-stick system, but with parts I already have at hand. I just got finished threading a second 3/8 aluminum rod ($4 each from the local hardware store) on each end to 3/8-24 thread to add a 2nd 36 inch extension to my 12 foot MFJ telescopic whip and then I ran across your video. ( I'm mainly using parts from the MFJ-1625 apartment / balcony antenna with the tuner, and mounting it on a heavier aluminum surveyor's tripod that I already have.)
Being that I am somewhat handicapped, this is intended as a mobile stored and carry system and then set it up near by as I will not be walking far. I also have an older MFJ-1424 mobile bug catcher coil mounted out in my shop loading a gutter instead of using the 5 1/2 foot whip that came with it. (Living in an HOA neighbor hood, you just have to improvise to stay stealthy.) What suggestions would you have suggest to improve this set up in my situation?
It just seemed at the time, that with using a combination of either the 12 foot or the 5 1/2 foot telescopic whip from the mobile bug catcher, in combination with the two 36 "extensions, or in combination with the coil and perhaps taps method, this just might work well for QRP. My plan for radials are 2 - 50 foot rolls of $4 speaker wire, cut specifically with two for each ham band (but 30 and 80 meters) and then connected to ring terminals as yours are done.
Living here with the HOA restrictions on visible antennas, I am using a MFJ-931 artificial ground and a single tuned radial "cluster" made as I just described.
Your video gave me some new thoughts on the radials side of things. I had also made an adapter to make the window tuner directly into a MFJ-1644 type short whip tuner some time ago, but for the tripod mount, it will be using a mobile's mirror mount type PL-259 to 3/8-24 whip adapter since there is no way it could support what will eventually be up to an 18 foot whip and loading coil assembly by itself. And the tripod will perhaps hold a coax current balun as well.but with QRP it may not even be necessary.
Congrats on your ingenuity to roll your own portable antenna system. I don't think I have anything to add, engineering-wise. One thing that does come to mind is that a single wire used as the radiating element is as good as the telescopic whip. A compact fiberglass mast with a wire taped to it can function as a full-sized 33' radiating element for a 1/4 wave vertical on 40m. So, you can have a no-compromise (no coils) antenna on up to 40 meters, if you want. The fiberglass mast can be held in place with a home-brewed guy-ring with 3 lightweight ropes coming down to the ground and help in place with tent stakes. Just something to think about. My 16' telescopic whip could be replaced by a fiberglass fishing pole and a 16' length of wire. I should play around with this... - Cliff
@@QRPSchool Thanks for the great information. Today I did some calculations on using these parts and found that I can get a quarter wave radiator for 14 MHz with the 12 foot whip, the 36" extension and a twenty inch extension, and the 12 foot and a 12 inch gives me one for 18 MHz. Higher than this I use the whip, lower than 14 MHz, I can add the coil and tuner or a section of wire to the top as you pointed out to avoid the coil.. It will be the simplest free standing rigid vertical set up I can make portable other than a wire or getting a new pole as you suggest or spending much. So I'm re cutting and retreading the 2nd 36" extension that I made yesterday to make up a 12 and a 20 inch extension. It's a bit over, but I can tune the top of the telescopic whip. I don't really need to carry the 5 1/2 foot whip along. I also noticed I can use a CB whip 102" and the 20" and 12" to get on 21 MHz as a quarter wave radiator as well. I might mount one of those CB whips on the truck's rear bumper anyway.
In the past of long ago, my other public camping site antenna rig was a 10 foot mast of EMT, a ground rod to plug it on to, with various HF mobile whips or ham sticks on top, and 16 wire radiators around it to support the pole. I called it my "mini tower". But I thought at the time that this portable but semi permanent rig could also be a tee pee style of tent all by itself if I just added a cover. Things have come a long way since back then. I still have it stored around here somewhere, but I couldn't use it either in the HOA restricted neighbor hood that I now live in with out it being hidden. But I had accumulated enough HF whips over time that I could make HF whip DI-poles for the attic with them to add to the trapped antenna that is hidden up there. Thanks again for the reply and the great information.
24 MHz; a 102 CB whip, a 12 " extension and the old proverbial 4" spring. But then I had a 4 inch section left over from the cut up 36" piece.
While the SWR was good by the measurements, the 3/8 aluminum rod itself is not strong enough after all, one bent some in a gust of wind. I'm thinking more on your suggested method now
Good job cliff but that tripod seems pretty flimsy. Has the wind ever knocked it over?
As always...great video!
works great 4mtrs to 20 mtrs to long for 2mtrs, I do not bother with groundplanes as run it from a triple magmount on my car when parked up.
I have this antenna on my car using Diamond K400 mount works great but is nice to have different ideas to use in a field
Glad to have found your channel! 73 de David AE4LH
Great antenna, great video thank you.
This was a great video, it would be great if you could make a kind of parts list, and perhaps and written instruction of how to put this together.
See the description of the video. It contains the source of the parts. - Cliff
I love your videos. Thank you.
awesome cliff , thanx
I would question how the tripod base would do with any breeze or wind without some guys or other protection. It does work without any outside forces. With my SuperAntenna and the coil it needs some help, a weight underneath or sitting on the kegs, small stakes of on grass or some other support. Dave K8WPE
Nice video Cliff simple and well put over 10/10 mate. Am thinking of buying a 1979 just wonder if you can deploy without antenna analyzer and via ldg atu?
+Nivek William No antenna tuner needed for 10m - 20m. You just extend sections until you've got a good SWR for the band you're using.
I have a Youkits antenna analyzer that is very compact so, when I deploy the vertical, I take the small analyzer with me, just to make sure I've got it set right. HOWEVER, it is possible to use a permanent marker (Sharpie brand is popular) and mark the sections directly on the antenna. So, you'd start pulling out the sections and, using your SWR meter or analyzer, place a mark on the antenna for 10m. Keep extending sections until you've got a good SWR on 15m and mark that place on the antenna. Keep extending sections and mark 17m, for example. After that, you could set it up without an analyzer. But, since I want to check it and make sure it's good, I carry my little analyzer. Transmitting and watching the SWR meter will verify the SWR, though. As usual, I opt for overkill! - Cliff
thanks for the advise!
Might this work? Unscrew the 239 to reveal the bolt to the antenna connector. Take yiur radials terminated with ring connectors and thread them onto the bolt. Then reattach the 239 to the ant connector and tighten down. Approx 9 radials maybe 12 possible. I am using 18awg. Just d
thought it up. I am sure some one else has. I really appreciate your clearly organized content.
centexn Yes. Any way to connect radials to the shield (ground) side of the coax will work just fine. As for the number of radials, 4 is good enough. Having 8 (or more) makes you feel better but your signal noticeably louder to the receiving station. - Cliff
actually, great advise!
Very cool!
Hey Cliff, pertaining to QRP would you say you find it easier to deploy EFHW wire antenna for multi and operations over having to erect this more stationary antenna system and adjust the telescopic lengths when changing bands?
Love telescopic antennas but 17' is massive, guess I could use it as a trekking pole on the hike. Great video, love your dedication to QRP.
I don't use a vertical very often... mostly have settled on linked dipoles from SOTABEAMS. But, don't forget that there's nothing magical about that 17' telescopic antenna except that it's self-supporting at the base. A 16.5' piece of wire will radiate just as well. So, a lightweight fiberglass fishing pole with a 16.5' piece of wire taped to it would be fine. Or that 16.5' piece of wire could be hoisted up into a tree branch if you are going to operate in a place with trees. In that case, you could put the radiating element and 4 radials coiled up into a plastic quart-sized bag. A different length radiator can be used for another band, of course. Since the radials are detuned when lying on the ground, you can cut different radiating wires for different bands without having to have an additional set of radials for each band. You may not get a 1:1 SWR match with short radials but it will work. - Cliff
Thanks for this video.
The MFJ link works, but the other 2 don't anymore. Any updates for these parts? Would like to build my own,.
73, VK6PCB.
Now the MFJ link is DOA
Following
Clint, check out with
at the 21:30 mark of
Ham Nation 263: Coax and How To Get It 200 Feet in the Air!
Nice video, I just subscribed! What about a single counterpoise wire like used on the Chameleon vertical antenna system? I just ordered the CHA MPAS system and it uses a single counterpoise. I believe that does make it somewhat directional? That reminds me of a question. On an antenna system with a single counterpoise, is it advantageous or counterproductive to also drive a steel or copper rode/stake in the ground as an additional ground system? Both the counterpoise and ground wire attached where the counterpoise is attached. Is that overkill? Thanks in advance. -- Steve....
Steve - a single counterpoise will work. My brother made a quick & dirty 10m vertical with a single counterpoise and talked to me from TN when I was on the island of Bonaire. However, there are gains to be made by having a radial system. I like using at least 4 radials, if the situation allows. That said, the gains fall off quickly... for example, having 32 radials doesn't help you much vs. 8 radials. There was a chart in QST magazine a few years ago that showed this. The 40 radials I buried in my yard at the base of my vertical (Hustler brand) is total overkill.
As for driving a rod into the ground... it won't really help with your signal. The radials will do all the work. But, it can be part of a safety system for electrical grounding. In full disclosure, my ham shack is on the second floor of my home and I do not have any ground rod. That's not exactly a "best practice" but my situation is the same as many, many other hams around the world. - Cliff
Hey Cliff - I bought one of those tripods but it doesn’t have that stud on top. Is that insulated to keep the vertical from shorting to the base/legs? I’ve just been screwing that vertical directly into the base but can never get a good SWR. Maybe that’s why 😂
I wanted to ask... can this rig be used with a qcx tranceiver to good effect. I have one in 40m. I work offshore and was looking for something I could stick up and tear down really easy when we were on our downtime? I could mount something to a rail and that’s generally what I’m looking for. I don’t need something “amazing” just something I could enjoy and learn with
Wow om nice set good luck
De A71BR
Looking at building this same setup....what kind of radial wire did you use exactly? It looks really nice and tangle hassle free as opposed to say, speaker wire. Thanks for the video.
+Tommy N I'm using 14 gauge wire that I bought from DX Engineering on a spool. It's multi-strand wire and it coils okay as compared to what you'd find at Home Depot. That said, it's still a bit of a tangled mess. I've got 3 wires soldered together on one lug... and 8 sets of those lugs. So, that's 24 wires in all. It takes a few minutes when I deploy to connect the lugs to ground and then comb my fingers through the 3 wires per lug to straighten them out. I should make some "spacers" to keep the wires apart... think short sections of finger-width PVC pipe with holes drilled in it. This would work but it would really bulk-up the packaging. -Cliff
Hi, very nice video, i would like to know, what's the coax type you are using ? I presume the impedance should be 50 Ohm ?
Hello! The coax is RG-8X. It is 50 Ohms. - Cliff
Have you tried to use a coil or matching unit like wolf river or chameleon along with the mfj
for 40 meter as well I’ve heard that it woks well
Kevin OKeefe i haven’t tried it but I’m certain it would work. I’ve worked a lot of DX from my car using a Lil Tarheel antenna... which is a coil with a whip on top. Normally I use my SOTABEAMS linked dipole for 40m. - Cliff
Hi Cliff! Would you recommend that welding station that is on your desk to the left? I'm on the market for one. Thanks in advance. Luciano PT9KK
+Luciano Gasparini Hello, Luciano. My soldering station is a Hakko 936. It is no longer in production. I would recommend a Hakko soldering station like the Hakko FX888D. You may want to get a smaller tip for your projects. It uses the Hakko T18 series tips. You can see the list of tips here: www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/series_t18.html
Hey, I have a question as I want to build this antenna. If the ground de-tunes the radials anyway (I've heard that from many others also) how did you get the right frequencies with a low SWR? And if they are de-tuned anyway, what's the need to cut them to exact length?
Also your MFJ link isn't valid anymore. Thanks I love this video.
Here is a link to that MFJ Whip on the DX Engineering website: www.dxengineering.com/parts/mfj-1979
Extend/Collapse the antenna as needed to get the lowest SWR on your desired band. But, don't sweat it too much. Nobody can hear the difference on the receiving end if your antenna SWR is 1:1 or 2:1. Two to one is perfectly fine.
I'm assuming if one desired, they could mark the radiating element for the different bands and extend as needed?
Yes. I did that with a "Sharpie" - although I do tend to take my little YouKits analyzer and check it with that. - Cliff
Cool
Do you get much wind in your location?
Thank you appreciate it! 73 de WA5SAT
awesome
Would you suggest a digital hot air work station? I've never played with SMD but it's time to start working on that.
+Luciano Gasparini I love mine. The one I have is from Sparkfun... www.sparkfun.com/products/10706
It is wonderful for heating multiple pins at the same time. So, it's good for SMD work, fixing a mistake by removing a part that you soldered in the wrong place, and for salvaging parts from old electronic devices. I didn't have one for a long time but I am glad I have one now. When you need it, you really need it! - Cliff
Just for comparison, next time you have it up, can you bond the ground radials to a metal stick into the ground near the base? I know they say it doesn't need to be grounded but I was wondering if it makes a difference in rx and tx.
A vertical needs a Ground but that's what the radials are for. You wouldn't be able to tell a difference if I connected the Ground side of the antenna to the soil... which is nowhere near as electrically conductive than the wire radials on the ground. - Cliff
Hello! I have three wires for each "radial"... they are cut to 1/4 wavelength for 10m. 15m, and 20m and then soldered together with a lug at the end where they are to be attached to the ground side of the antenna connector. So, the approximate lengths of the three wires that comprise each radial are 8', 12', and 16' (2.5m, 3.5m, and 5m). The actual lengths are not super-critical as they become detuned when placed on the ground. - Cliff
You said that you had 8 groups of 3 wires for radials, I assume 1 wire for 20M, 1 for 15M and one for 10M. Is that correct?
Very nice setup - I already have that whip and think you've just made my portable EK1A ops much nicer!
+Kevin Timm That's right, Kevin. I cut 3 radials... for 20m, 15m, and 10m and then twisted the ends together and soldered them to a lug. I've got 8 sets of those. Glad to have helped. Have fun out there! - Cliff
I've had to run a die over their threads to mate to my gear due to excess plating...
Lee, WA8QFE
Do you find that the MFJ-1979 telescopic whip collapses on itself over time? I have heard this somewhere. I imagine temperature variations over time can cause the metal to contract or expand.... Thanks in advance. Steve....
Not at all, Steve. It's solid. But, here's a tip for you... if you're overzealous when extending the sections, you can pull a section out of socket. Once you do that, you can't put it back together again without having to tape that section in place. So, be careful when you get to the end of a section while extending it. - Cliff
do the ground radials have to be connected to rods driven into the ground? will this system work for the small hand helds like the baofeng uv-5r and kenwood th-d72a? (I have both radios)
This antenna is for HF radios... not VHF/UHF like the hand-held radios you mention. But, to answer the first question... no, the radials can just lay on the ground. This is a Radio Frequency ground as opposed to Electrical ground. Thanks -Cliff
Cliff, I'm a HAM in the making right now. Working on getting my tests done. Been looking at portable antennas for a K2 Elecraft. Could you supply links possibly for your 17ft antenna setup? Hopefully I might make contact with you seeing i'm in IL which isn't very far from you. Thanks, Gabe
+Gabe Kremer Hello, Gabe! Here, in the description of this youtube video, I've included the links to the items shown. You may have to click something below the video's description that says, "SHOW MORE" in order to see the links. Let me know if you can't see it and I'll figure out a way to send you the links. Thanks - Cliff
Hi Cliff, awesome video! I use an MFJ-1899 loaded whip that works pretty well w/ my FT-817nd. I have a question about your radials. Are the groups of 3 radials the same length? I thought you said you have different length radials for different bands, but then you said you hook up 4 of them... so does that mean each group of 3 has 3 different length radials? How long is each one? I didn't think that would work, but I think I'm misunderstanding. Thanks for your videos, I hope you will keep making more. Thanks! 73 Craig KM4QID
Hey, Craig. Each lug that I attach to Ground has 3 wires soldered to it. They are one quarter wavelength on 20m, 15m, and 10m. I have 8 sets of these for a total of 24 radials. I hope that clears things up. I probably could have done a better job of describing that in the video. Thanks for the kind words! - Cliff
+QRP School Thank you for clarifying that, Cliff! I thought that's what you meant, and I wasn't aware that'd work well. Guess I was wrong (happily). All the best. Craig
which by the way, no reason I couldn't add them for the WARC bands as well right? It'd be five wires, so might have to get a larger lug, or figure it out.
Great setup and practical. But can this beat the Gotham Vertical? 73's WU2D
I know you're only joking but, let's see... "Gotham Vertical" was a 23 foot vertical with no radials that allegedly did all ham bands down to 80m. to me, this is the Sea Monkeys of antennas. (If that design truly worked well, we'd all have them, wouldn't we?) - Cliff
Beautiful. The $16.95 DX champion! Those poor Novices did have one thing going for them. The greatest sunspot maximum recorded in modern times.
What would you recommend (home built only please) for a 40M indoor for QRP as I am in an apartment with limited space and cannot use an outdoor? I've looked everywhere and the only thing I can find is some kind of loop? Are these efficient radiators for that kind of use?
+Digger D Transmitting from an apartment on 40m is a challenge. I'm wondering if you could deploy a single, stealthy wire antenna - even if temporarily - when you want to transmit. Is there a tree somewhere nearby? Do you have a balcony? If so, a "buddipole" antenna deployed as a shortened horizontal dipole might be a possibility. A magnetic loop antenna like the MFJ-1788 is a good antenna although it's not very efficient on 40m. If you put 100 watts into it, you might get the equivalent of 30 watts out... which is fine but not optimal. - Cliff
QRP School Thanks for the reply. I will be putting out about 700 mW ;) and need an indoor antenna. Guess I like challenges lol.
A magnetic loop antenna will work indoors against a window or on a balcony.
I have most of that equipment you used in the park. But I don't use it because Central Park in New York City has lots of people around and all I would need is one gust of wind to tip over my MFJ-1979 and hit someone to be in trouble. If I pick too isolated a spot in the park, then I have isolated myself too much and can be subject to some thief. 73 de N2LRB
I understand. But, what if you used the plastic stake and clamp as shown at 3:12 in the video? With the antenna screwed into the clamp and the clamp attached to that stake in the ground, no gust of wind will take it down. Don't forget this antenna is a 1/4 wave vertical on 20m so it's only 16.5' tall. It's been two or three years since I've roamed Central Park but I don't remember it being packed cheek to jowl. I really believe you can do this! Tape an American flag to the top of it if you think you might need the stealth. Where there's a will, there's a way! :-) -cliff
@@QRPSchool Unfortunately New York City's Central Park does not allow for 1. hang/drapping any wires over trees, and 2. any holes to be dug or any stakes planted. I call it the 'Park as a Museum" concept. No climbing tree, no leaning on or tying banners between trees. And there are plenty of Park Rangers around to give you a $2,500 fine should you break their rules. Basically you can walk around but not touch anything. The only except is that one can sit on the grass in areas where it is permitted. This is what happens when tree huggers run the show.
@@N2LRB Well, that's unfortunate. To my way of thinking, there's no better way to tell a tree you love them than by tossing a wire into their branches and working DX on 5 watts! :-)
Brilliant video, thank you for sharing it with the community. 2e0xch.
Hi Cliff,
As a newcomer to the hobby I've been getting a LOT out of your videos. I really want to start doing some HF fieldwork and I was wondering about the 'superwhip' which newsuperantenna sell for use with that low profile tripod. Is there a reason you went with the MFJ? Could you recommend one over the other?
I ask because the superwhip boasts various pre-made coils and accessories which they claim will let you work bands down to 80m - and whilst that sounds attractive to a new ham, I'm worried it may be a compromise too far.
Any thoughts you have on choosing between the two would be great.
Also, is there any maintenance technique that will prevent the sections from getting electrically noisy and changing resonant length as they flex slighty in light wind. My instincts tell me that this is a likely issue with telescopics as they age.
So, how do we keep our whips working? Perhaps a conductive grease? Tiny jubilee clips for geriatric whips? HI HI
Thanks for doing what you do : )
Gary
M6UDS
Hello, Gary. Thanks for taking the time to watch my videos!
A key thing to remember is that EVERYTHING WORKS... it's just a matter of efficiency. Many QSO's have been made (back in the day) when a light bulb was connected to the radio while tuning up the amplifier. But, we can all agree that a light bulb is a terrible antenna. When band conditions are good, a bad antenna will yield contacts.
I chose the MFJ whip because it is a full-length 1/4 wave radiator on 20m and up. So, it's efficient (with my radials connected) as compared to a shortened radiator that uses a coil to electrically lengthen the whip.
Given a choice of using a short whip with a coil for 30m/40m/80m, I'd rather use a dipole antenna... a full-sized wire antenna. It's much more efficient for my QRP-level signal.
Having said all that, I've made contacts all over Europe from my car. I have a Lil' Tarheel antenna which uses a coil and short whip (like the SuperAntenna). Again, everything works when conditions are good.
I would not discourage you from getting the antenna you're asking about. Just know that it is a compromise antenna. Given that I'm already compromising my power output by limiting myself to 5 watts, I want the most efficient antenna I can get!
As for maintenance of a whip, I've done nothing to mine except wipe it down so that I don't store it with any moisture on it. It would not be a bad idea to use dielectric grease on the overlapping joints but I haven't take the trouble to do so. (I'm kind of a slacker!) . - Cliff
Interesting low visibility. Would this type antenna work on a residential area where homes are closely built (18' between homes looking from street and about 60' from back to back or mounted on the backside of the roof ? 73 KM4UQU
Hello, Mike. It would work. However, it would only work for a single band. You wouldn't have easy access to the stainless steel whip if you wanted to adjust it to work other bands. If you have any trees in your backyard, you could, instead, run some wire radials slightly underground around a tree... and then run some coax to that tree, digging a little trench to hide it barely underground... and then clip a radiating wire to the feedpoint where the radials and coax comes together. You could just use some invisible fishing line over a branch as a pulley to haul up a 16.5' wire as the vertical radiator for 20m, for example. You'd have other radiating wires to use for other bands. To change bands, you'd untie the fishing line, bring down the radiating wire, attach the new radiating wire for the desired band, haul it back up and tie off the fishing line to keep it vertical. Just a thought... - Cliff
Just found your channel tonight, been enjoying your videos. We have similar interest, Ive just really got to get over my mental block causing me CW stage fright! 73 de Seth W8FG
+W8FG Hi, Seth. I think I need to do a video about CW stage fright. I struggled with this for a long time, myself. I had to force myself to make contacts in order to get over it. I eventually discovered that there were a lot of people who were professional CW guys and that plenty of operators made as many or more mistakes than I did - and still do. I think most hams are compassionate and forgiving of those of us who aren't CW speed demons. The ones who are better/faster that we are have all been through the same portion of the learning curve where we find ourselves now. See my reply to another comment you made on another video where I recommend you join the Straight Key Century Club. That will help you a lot... it helped me, anyway. - cliff
Any idea where to find the High Sierra Jaws Clamp these days?
In Stock here today: www.dxengineering.com/parts/cha-jawmount?seid=dxese1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwnueFBhChARIsAPu3YkRAaailux1cKzABN_bl39XbgW0NGv2PLvxlWrrbe5XTKYv6u88E0CgaAp9PEALw_wcB
Out of stock here today: www.qsradio.com/tablet/index.html#!/Claw%E2%84%A2-Mount/p/51822117
Where can I find the line winders? Need a couple!
Here's where I get them: www.sotabeams.co.uk/antenna-wire-winders/
SOTABEAMS has many, many great products - especially for those who work portable. - Cliff
if you are at ghe beach fo you need the radials?
+Elimelec Medina If you have a reliable way to connect the ground/shield of the coax to the salt water, you could use the salt water for the ground plane. The radiation patern would be distorted toward the ocean, but that's probably not a bad thing. -Cliff
How about a collapsible small transmitting loop....
For 20m and up, great. (Below 20m, an antenna of this type is horribly inefficient. The diameter of the loop is simply too small relative to the wavelength.) - Cliff
What is the model number of the bag.
I enjoyed your video.
KU3X
Hello, Barry. I bought it years ago and I purchased it at REI. I believe this is the item: www.rei.com/product/866235/eagle-creek-original-pack-it-cleandirty-cube
MFJ speaks of every band except 20 needing a loaded coil. This detail was not mentioned in your vid. are there extenuating circumstances? Which coil would you recommend?
+centexn Hello. This telescopic antenna, when fully extended, presents a 1/4 wave radiator for 20 meters. By partially collapsing it, a 1/4 wave radiator can be created for 17m, 15m, 12m, and 10m. None of these 5 bands needs a loading coil as the telescopic antenna allows the creation of an electrically accurate 1/4 wavelength radiator for each of these 5 bands. Now, if you want to use this on 30 meters, 40 meters, or 80 meters, the antenna would be too short to form a 1/4 wave vertical. This is where the loading coil comes into play. You'd end up using something like the MFJ-67 loading coil and tapping into it at the appropriate place on the coil to get 30 meters and 40 meters to work. In essence, you're creating what many hams use for a mobile HF antenna. With mobile "screwdriver" antennas (named due to the use of electric screwdriver motors in the early models), you are rotating a coil to shorten or lengthen the coil at the tapping point so that the antenna is electrically a 1/4 radiator.
Because I primarily work portable during the day, I mostly work 20 meters and up. I don't have a loading coil for my vertical. If I want to work 40 meters, I use a wire dipole antenna. I don't ever work 80 meters.
On my car, I have a Little Tarheel II antenna - which is a "screwdriver antenna" consisting of a whip and a long loading coil so that I can use it with any band from 80 meters through 10 meters.
-Cliff
Thank you for your detailed response. Now, if I may ask you another product related question. The antenna you review is simplicity itself. On the other hand Super Antenna, which provides the support base for your nifty whip, offers a shorter coil antenna ideal for
portability. One might think such an antenna rugged in the extreme, however, life has taught me if something can fail it will. Short of being physically demolished I cant believe a coil could suffer an operational failure. What are your thoughts?? I really appreciate your QRP School channel and your willingness to share your knowledge.
Centexn
+centexn The Super Antenna looks good to me. I'm confident it would work. You'll need some wire radials to connect to ground... the vertical component has to have something to make up the other half of the antenna (besides the shield of your coax!).
If I am hesitant about the Super Antenna, it would just be because of the short whip. A 1/4 wave vertical for 20 meters is normally 16.5 feet tall. Super Antenna is doing it with something that's only 7 feet tall. There has to be a trade-off when you substitute a loading coil for electrical length. If an antenna with a loading coil was as efficient as a larger antenna, nobody would be using tall antennas, right? You don't see huge coils with tiny whips being sold or endorsed by anyone.
So, to my way of thinking, the Super Antenna is like a car (HF mobile) antenna. If I had the option, I'd prefer a full-sized antenna every time. However, I've worked a TON of countries all over Europe and South America on my Little Tarheel antenna on my car - which is probably no bigger than the Super Antenna!
As to the coil suffering operational failure, I'm sure it's possible for the contacts to become "dirty" over time -although there's probably a way to clean the coil. With my MFJ 16' whip, I accidentally pulled the antenna out of the bottom section. Once you do that you can't re-insert the sections back into the bottom and crimp it so that it won't happen again. So, now, I pull the second section as far as I dare out of the bottom section and then use a couple of inches of electrical tape to make sure it doesn't collapse. I guess the moral of that story is that anything that can fail will fail... but we find a way to fix it or live with it somehow.
Just remember: Everything works... it' just a matter of efficiency. You could hook up a light bulb to your antenna jack and make some short distance contacts (across the room, street, neighborhood?) but I think we'd all agree that a lightbulb is not a great antenna!
I'm sure you'll make some good contacts on the Super Antenna.
Good luck! - Cliff
Hello Cliff...
Could you possibly link the sotabeam linked dipole you reviewed. I looked for it but didnt find it.
Thanks
Centexn
+centexn here's the url... www.sotabeams.co.uk/two-band-portable-dipole-antenna-system/
How are you liking that antenna analyzer?
N4ANE I like it a lot. It's a great size for working portable or traveling. Definitely recommended. -Cliff
QRP School I noticed that you don't have a video on that tool can you do one?
what gauge wire for the radials?
I used 14 gauge wire... just because I had a spool of it. The wire gauge isn't critical. - Cliff
Have you considered using that clamp on your bike rather than the tripod?
That would definitely work. I could clamp it to my rack. When I'm on my bicycle, I tend to just take a wire antenna with me because it's more compact and lighter. - Cliff
@@QRPSchool I was thinking the seatpost, but from the video can't really determine the size. The idea should simplify your setup and reduce weight. I enjoyed your video. 73s
anywhere? I want it to deploy on statue of liberty
Janez Novak What could possibly go wrong in that scenario?...
Janez Novak : How about try deploying it off of the top of your head?
If I set up this tripod mount in my apartment at 30 feet in the air on third floor. and I run the radial wires spread out across the floor, would that work? Its all 30 feet in the air. There is no way to get the radials down to earth flat ground in this situation inside my apartment.
+Kevin J Hello, Kevin. The tripod would have a vertical antenna on top of it that would extend up to 16+ feet in order to work the 20 meter band. You'd need very high ceilings to do this inside an apartment! Maybe you're talking about doing this on a balcony? If so, the radials could be on the floor of the balcony. Ideally you'd want the radials to be spread around evenly without overlapping each other but you just do the best you can in your situation and make contacts instead of worrying about it not being optimal.
+QRP School I would actually think of using the ham stick solutions with the tripod, which have a shorter physical length, and smaller bandwidth corresponding. Then switch ham stick upon demand for a vertical solution on each band. The MFJ-1640T only has a length of 7 feet fully extended. Am able to tune it up with tuner, but am not getting out right now, and do not have radials (yet)
+Kevin J Okay, I understand. You will have a tough time making contacts with a hamstick inside a building. Much of the signal will be absorbed by the materials inside the building AND the radiation pattern will be badly distorted. You also run the risk of having your RF couple with wiring of devices around you, causing strange things to happen to appliances, etc.
I know this isn't what you hoped to hear. It would be easier/better for you to put your hamstick on the roof of your car using a magnet mount and work stations in your car. Or go to a nearby park to work portable when you can.
If you have a balcony, you can clamp an antenna to the railing using a Jaws clamp.
Another option that sounds far-fetched (but is done every day) is to have a relative or friend let you set up a station at their house and then remote into it over the internet. I've done this many times while on vacation... taking a laptop on vacation then remoted into my computer at home, using my KX3 from another state or country. I should probably make a video about that, actually. - Cliff
actually I did want to hear this. It at least tells me what to have for expectations. What about a magnetic loop inside the apartment? Am reading that magnetic loops might work, but is it hype?
+Kevin J Magnetic loops DO work. I bought an Alexloop a few years ago and I recently purchased a used MFJ-1786 at a hamfest. The loops don't like to be near metal objects so you might need to put the loop very near a window or a wall that doesn't have metal studs or foil insulation. They work well on the higher bands but they are horribly inefficient on the lower bands. For example, the Alexloop is rated down to 7MHz for the 40 meter band. However, at that frequency, you're only putting out milliwatts - not watts. Now, at 20MHz and higher, it's great! Unfortunately, there's a lot of 40 meter activity in the evening when many of us have time to play radio. If you are able to use a magnetic loop antenna during the day on 14 MHz or higher, I recommend a magnetic loop. If you're hoping to work lower bands, you won't have any consistent luck with the Alexloop. MFJ makes a bigger loop that is welded and should do much better at the lower bands (40m and 30m) than the Alexloop. If you want to work 40 meters with a magnetic loop antenna, your best bet would be to make your own out of copper water pipe - and it would need to be bigger than the MFJ loop. (That's the problem with trying to use a small-ish loop for the lower bands... at those frequencies, the loop is a much smaller fraction of a wavelength than it is for higher frequencies.) - Cliff
Clamp is avail. from chameleon as well.
Also consider cutting your coax to freq used vf x antenna length.
What is the specific name of this antenna???
www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-1979
What type of coil do I need to use this antenna for 80m it would be perfect for me if I could operate 80/40/20/17&10m
This Wolf River Silver Bullet 1000 would be great. www.wolfrivercoils.com/order.html
It's $60 but built like a tank. There's no reason that you couldn't "roll your own" by wrapping some PVC with insulated wire. I can't help you with that, as far as calculating the right length of wire.
So I can shove this on a mountain topper qrp radio no problem
Results of a survey of the "ins" and "outs" of portable operation of a ham radio station by the most active NPOTA Activators:
www.learnerassociates.net/portableop/
Just throw up a dipole out of lite weight military phone wire.
Why don't you deploy it up your fucking arsehole.