Massive fan of your channel, Elliott. You navigate the landscape here with more grace and aptitude than many people being awarded degrees in Philosophy today. It is disheartening, the number of 'creatives' I've interacted with who become complete invertebrates when they have to think about this stuff.
Man this is a breath of fresh air. I've been thinking about a lot of these concepts on my own for years now but to hear someone put it all together like this is astounding! I agree the hyper-conceptualization of art is one of the biggest problems with contemporary art today and that low-involvement/personal investment across all art (visual, music, ect.) is widespread. Great video!
Commenting for the algorithm because i enjoy your work. I think all I have to add is that post modernism is essentially the death of all human thought. Philosophy and logic are all in the service of measuring what we value and why. Post modernism is essentially saying to stop thinking because it's all subjective and therefore unimportant.
great vid important topic I wrote half of a long comment but it started to go off the rails this subject matter makes me think seven different things at the same time yeah there's an audience for this dont know how large it is but I'll definitely watch anything else you post like this
loved the ideas and all the presentation. i simply didnt care when u answer the phone, i was just waiting anxious for you to keep talking! keep up the good content, im following!
thank you for the interesting topic! I will definitely spend some more time to think about the topics you opened up. I find it disheartening that many of my creative colleagues are becoming blinded by idealism (or rather idealistic fanatisicm) which in turn kills the need to think more deeply and also kills creativity. I am noticing the trend in following what experts say rather than questioning our own inner values and voice, because somehow we are told there is not much to find inside. technology is so baffling because it gives the illusion of knowledge and facts (through quick google you can research many topics, even though the answers you get might be quite shallow) but the internet also puts you in thought bubbles and pushes your own beliefs to the max... so knowledge must be searched on our own rather than through passive means. it is similar with art- mass consumption of art and a kind of 'philosophy bubble' makes many uninteresting pieces with nothing to say
This was a great video and it's funny how well it resonated with many things I've been saying myself in the past years, we must watch the same youtube channels sometimes or read the same books. In any case. Other than the analog life we all (who're sick of the screen and technology's obsession with making us as dependent of it as possible) want back. I'd love to see a video about how to survive and thrive while aspiring towards independence, rejecting the screen and rejecting the enabling of our self destruction through these post modernist extremist ideals to create a virtual world (the matrix essentially). Sure, I'd go off the grid in a heartbeat but real-estate is not a joke, anywhere in the world.
In the same way that the envious take down all of the talented people above them in order to bring them to their level, that's what's happening to art, and those postmodernists bring down art to their crap. They lower the bar, and the result of that is mediocrity while leaving behind the persuit of excellence. OUT STANDING work, it's OUTSIDE of that! I just discovered your channel and I love it.
I can ride w you on the material world/other being at least superficially beholden to and composed of logic, reason and other 'objective' indicators. And of course these indicators can be parsed out to point towards desirable and less desirable outcomes and realities. ie good and evil here are 'Real' and quantifiable. But when this reverse engineering is applied to the already amorphous and extraconceptual realm of the ideal-'Truth' which seems to appear by turns both immanent and transcendent, I feel that leaning into the belief that we can deduce it by these indicators can harm an artist as it dispenses with the alchemy of perspective and unity/dissolution spoken of in eastern spiritual thought. Started writing this 1/4 of the way through your video bouta watch the rest keep up the bangers yo appreciate the thoughtfood
I assigned this and the original video to my "Dialogues" class. We're headed in to discuss shortly. Thanks, Elliott, for all your fodder, agree or not, it's always nourishing. Let's see how this landed with the Designer/Artists in this section. Onward!
Thanks for these videos. I do think the failure of postmodernism is not just a rejection of truth claims but a general rejection of the divine. When you're young it's easy to look at large religious institutions as the only source of 'the divine', when it fact these concepts existed as the basis for sincerity in art. As an example, poetry in the Western World is very closely tied to the idea of the muses, but postmodernism wholly rejects that any kind of holy/psychic experience could occur without some kind of material supplement. Not to mention that a lot of critical theory implies the muses are a kind of Petrarchan construction rooted in masculine fantasies and are a kind of ruse. So what you end up with is a lot of art and literature entirely bereft of any kind of mystical grounding. And what do you get as a result? Most forms of media now work to interrogate themselves because they have no belief system to go on.
This is the first video of yours I watched and I completely agree with the "manifesto" here's the question though, 1) how would this be applied commercially where nearly everything is exaggerated, Yes I could reject this and only use 100% moral claims resulting in loss of revenue, or ignore/not even bother to verify. And 2) how would I apply this brutal truth when I'm dreaming up something that is non-existent (a real life concept project, which thinking about it seems not very far from a politician talking about accomplishments, when what I'm trying to present is a representation of my skill applied on a fictional use case. Side note, art is a representation of truth, not truth so there will always be some disconnect, also if art must always convey truth how is it different to design (maybe the primary function?)
@@StudioPractice1 after writing it out like this what seems to be the biggest culprit is the misrepresentation of commercial design as art and opinion, and we're seeing this everywhere nowadays (product placement, influencer marketing etc) so drilling it down, how and where do we draw the line.
" the medium is the message" - marshall mcluhan here's something... are we not contributing to the post modern world view merely by communicating through virtual formats like the internet? Is this intellectual "gooning"? Is this the thinking man's Fortnite? We've all become lost in the virtual world of the unreal that is the internet. And deconstructing post-modern thought through a virtual reality might be the most post-modern thing you can do? Perhaps there is no escape. Once Pandora's box has been opened it cannot be resealed.
I feel too stupid to understand this and thats incredibly frustrating for me rn. Are you saying that the idea that there is no objective reality there for nothing matters, is simply incorrect? Im not sure i fully understand how that impacts the artist and their work, if thats actually what you mean. Im definitely gonna need to rewatch this a couple times to fully understand this discussion. To be honest this is kind of my time diving into this subject as whole. Are there any books you can recommend me?
Hi 👋. I’m saying you (me) don’t determine what’s real. You (me) are not the center of the universe. I’m saying there are others “out there” and there is something “out there” that’s real. And that this experience of life is shared. - the implications of this are far reaching
It's gone way beyond post-modernism. In meta-modernism one can pretend to go back and forth between honesty and detached irony. Metanarratives to no-true-reality. Oscillating so fast between one another they think they are impossible to be pinned down. This is disharmonious flux, one spun from our world of no focus and always willing to find easy answers to complex issues by sidestepping when thought gets dense. It's neither being pro or anti reality, it's to be impulsively happy to jump to whichever seems to reveal to be the path of least resistance.
I think this video though misses the major point that the ones to benefit the most from postmodern thought were not academia, but markets. What's more postmodern than a commercial? No inherent good, nothing being sacred, cultivates the minimum viable consumer. Consumption being the only method for the faux pas resemblance of meaning.
@@StudioPractice1it comes after "the new sincerity" which existed to go back to modernist values, and reacted to it with the "oh this is a cycle" way and patted themselves on the back for noticing it. Thus the whole oscillating thing. But functionaly, we still live in a modernism world, everything after are general readings of collective mass mental pathologies.
How does it makes sense to say, "Uncommitted students who abuse post modern thought through deskilled work are a tiny fraction of the students, so art school is full of terrible shit macerating as deskilled work" regardless of that, this video comes across as a try hard take down of postmodern thought that gives post modern credit for simple realities that explain things better. 1. we live in a very complicated world 2. people are ignorant of very important things (like how govt work) 3. people don't have the critical thinking skills to understand their ignorance despite feelings of understanding 4. the internet is constantly getting better at using emotionally triggering content that abuses issues 1,2, and 3
@skulldaggery_20K9 my point isn’t that there is not a single cut in the video (I think I coughed). My point is that I have moved to writing the videos and shooting them in - single take. So I now do close to zero FCPX editing
And I just found it interesting in relation to the topic of truth. You demonstrate control with all your other choices in this deliberately planned presentation, and then leave these unplanned distracting bits. Not a value judgement, just an observation that amused me and felt like sharing.
Btw i got an ad while watching this video about a gen AI which could generate and ready package a whole book for digital distribution with a single prompt. Literally a book being sold that no one wrote, read or edited. I can't wait until millions press the "make book button" hundreds of times with the hopes of selling something not even they know what it is. Sry, seems like a non sequitur but not really. What is the point of this? In what manner is our population educated that the thought doesn't immediately emerge that this is not only soulmurderingly imoral but also inevitably leads to the ultimate tragedy of the commons scenario where the market gets saturated with stuff that no one even knows what is and clogs it for everyone else? Is this the price of our unlimited "subjectivity"? "You see, i am still the creator for this book wouldn't exist had I not pressed the button" and there goes to meatgrind pieces of text from our unconsentual collective aether with none accountable. I'm not a traditionalist at all, but fuck, if this doesn't make me go want to just go live in a rural and disconnected village. I'd take the likes of the Amish infinitely over whatever monstrosity we are socially engineering the future generations and the systems guiding them to be like.
For most people reality really is simply wished away. Take circumcision for example,. This is objectively the physical torture or your child for absolutely no benefit in reality. Despite this, because they were told to by a perceived authority, millions do this to their children. The physical reality of your child in pain is percieved quite differently in this example then in any other example of your child in pain. Its not that there is no objective reality, its just that what people think of reality (which is what the postmodernists see as truth) is a function of power. Yes there are some people who are dissident and arrive at their own conclusions, but this is a minority and no one can ever be 100% dissident anyway. "There is something outside myself", "I share reality with other people". These statements are fundamentally assumption. I share them as well of course, but I will admit that at bottom I am only myself, myself being my physical body. I only assume there is something outside of myself shared perceptually with other people.
Fair points… Solipsism is a seductive (and extremely dangerous and lonely world view). It is a statement of fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove the existence of anything outside of the self. My comments to you may in fact, simply be you fabricating me. That the entire external reality is simply a projection and that YOU are the progenitor. To some degree, it can/could be argued that MOST people are solipsistic nihilists. (They believe only in the existence of themselves *main character syndrome* AND that all life is meaningless. I believe the exact opposite of this - I only hope I’m right).
Massive fan of your channel, Elliott. You navigate the landscape here with more grace and aptitude than many people being awarded degrees in Philosophy today. It is disheartening, the number of 'creatives' I've interacted with who become complete invertebrates when they have to think about this stuff.
Ha!And LOL. Thanks for the note!
Man this is a breath of fresh air. I've been thinking about a lot of these concepts on my own for years now but to hear someone put it all together like this is astounding! I agree the hyper-conceptualization of art is one of the biggest problems with contemporary art today and that low-involvement/personal investment across all art (visual, music, ect.) is widespread. Great video!
Thanks for taking the time to write
Decentering. My new favorite word. Glad to see some artistic types bring all this up rather than only the political pundits.
Commenting for the algorithm because i enjoy your work.
I think all I have to add is that post modernism is essentially the death of all human thought.
Philosophy and logic are all in the service of measuring what we value and why.
Post modernism is essentially saying to stop thinking because it's all subjective and therefore unimportant.
All good
great vid important topic
I wrote half of a long comment but it started to go off the rails
this subject matter makes me think seven different things at the same time
yeah there's an audience for this dont know how large it is but I'll definitely watch anything else you post like this
Glad you are posting these.
Absolute love your work ✨
I love you man! This is some great information.
Thanks!
loved the ideas and all the presentation. i simply didnt care when u answer the phone, i was just waiting anxious for you to keep talking! keep up the good content, im following!
I have thought about the intro to this video more than anything else lately. Absolutely mind blowing ideas
Lemme know any other issues you might be thinking of
Do you have any more book recommendations you could list here?
thank you for the interesting topic! I will definitely spend some more time to think about the topics you opened up.
I find it disheartening that many of my creative colleagues are becoming blinded by idealism (or rather idealistic fanatisicm) which in turn kills the need to think more deeply and also kills creativity. I am noticing the trend in following what experts say rather than questioning our own inner values and voice, because somehow we are told there is not much to find inside. technology is so baffling because it gives the illusion of knowledge and facts (through quick google you can research many topics, even though the answers you get might be quite shallow) but the internet also puts you in thought bubbles and pushes your own beliefs to the max... so knowledge must be searched on our own rather than through passive means. it is similar with art- mass consumption of art and a kind of 'philosophy bubble' makes many uninteresting pieces with nothing to say
love the video :)
plz do another video a day for 30 days. that was sick. ur videos are so fire
This was a great video and it's funny how well it resonated with many things I've been saying myself in the past years, we must watch the same youtube channels sometimes or read the same books. In any case.
Other than the analog life we all (who're sick of the screen and technology's obsession with making us as dependent of it as possible) want back.
I'd love to see a video about how to survive and thrive while aspiring towards independence, rejecting the screen and rejecting the enabling of our self destruction through these post modernist extremist ideals to create a virtual world (the matrix essentially).
Sure, I'd go off the grid in a heartbeat but real-estate is not a joke, anywhere in the world.
I love these presentation videos you make on the nature of art. Please never stop
Thanks for saying that
In the same way that the envious take down all of the talented people above them in order to bring them to their level, that's what's happening to art, and those postmodernists bring down art to their crap. They lower the bar, and the result of that is mediocrity while leaving behind the persuit of excellence. OUT STANDING work, it's OUTSIDE of that!
I just discovered your channel and I love it.
I love the bit about the motorcycle
I can ride w you on the material world/other being at least superficially beholden to and composed of logic, reason and other 'objective' indicators. And of course these indicators can be parsed out to point towards desirable and less desirable outcomes and realities. ie good and evil here are 'Real' and quantifiable. But when this reverse engineering is applied to the already amorphous and extraconceptual realm of the ideal-'Truth' which seems to appear by turns both immanent and transcendent, I feel that leaning into the belief that we can deduce it by these indicators can harm an artist as it dispenses with the alchemy of perspective and unity/dissolution spoken of in eastern spiritual thought. Started writing this 1/4 of the way through your video bouta watch the rest keep up the bangers yo appreciate the thoughtfood
You lost me at the alchemy of perspective and eastern thought bit. What do you mean by that?
thanks for making vids, E
Cool
I assigned this and the original video to my "Dialogues" class. We're headed in to discuss shortly. Thanks, Elliott, for all your fodder, agree or not, it's always nourishing. Let's see how this landed with the Designer/Artists in this section. Onward!
Report back!
locked in
"No ideas but in things."
-William Carlos Williams
Perfect
Thanks for these videos. I do think the failure of postmodernism is not just a rejection of truth claims but a general rejection of the divine. When you're young it's easy to look at large religious institutions as the only source of 'the divine', when it fact these concepts existed as the basis for sincerity in art. As an example, poetry in the Western World is very closely tied to the idea of the muses, but postmodernism wholly rejects that any kind of holy/psychic experience could occur without some kind of material supplement. Not to mention that a lot of critical theory implies the muses are a kind of Petrarchan construction rooted in masculine fantasies and are a kind of ruse. So what you end up with is a lot of art and literature entirely bereft of any kind of mystical grounding. And what do you get as a result? Most forms of media now work to interrogate themselves because they have no belief system to go on.
lol this is crazy i love it
This is the first video of yours I watched and I completely agree with the "manifesto" here's the question though, 1) how would this be applied commercially where nearly everything is exaggerated, Yes I could reject this and only use 100% moral claims resulting in loss of revenue, or ignore/not even bother to verify. And 2) how would I apply this brutal truth when I'm dreaming up something that is non-existent (a real life concept project, which thinking about it seems not very far from a politician talking about accomplishments, when what I'm trying to present is a representation of my skill applied on a fictional use case.
Side note, art is a representation of truth, not truth so there will always be some disconnect, also if art must always convey truth how is it different to design (maybe the primary function?)
These are all great questions. I have to read your comment a few more times to make sure I understand.
@@StudioPractice1 after writing it out like this what seems to be the biggest culprit is the misrepresentation of commercial design as art and opinion, and we're seeing this everywhere nowadays (product placement, influencer marketing etc) so drilling it down, how and where do we draw the line.
" the medium is the message" - marshall mcluhan
here's something... are we not contributing to the post modern world view merely by communicating through virtual formats like the internet?
Is this intellectual "gooning"? Is this the thinking man's Fortnite?
We've all become lost in the virtual world of the unreal that is the internet. And deconstructing post-modern thought through a virtual reality might be the most post-modern thing you can do?
Perhaps there is no escape. Once Pandora's box has been opened it cannot be resealed.
“We NEED art, lest we perish from the truth”-Nietzsche
I feel too stupid to understand this and thats incredibly frustrating for me rn. Are you saying that the idea that there is no objective reality there for nothing matters, is simply incorrect? Im not sure i fully understand how that impacts the artist and their work, if thats actually what you mean. Im definitely gonna need to rewatch this a couple times to fully understand this discussion. To be honest this is kind of my time diving into this subject as whole. Are there any books you can recommend me?
Hi 👋. I’m saying you (me) don’t determine what’s real. You (me) are not the center of the universe. I’m saying there are others “out there” and there is something “out there” that’s real. And that this experience of life is shared. - the implications of this are far reaching
It's gone way beyond post-modernism. In meta-modernism one can pretend to go back and forth between honesty and detached irony. Metanarratives to no-true-reality. Oscillating so fast between one another they think they are impossible to be pinned down. This is disharmonious flux, one spun from our world of no focus and always willing to find easy answers to complex issues by sidestepping when thought gets dense. It's neither being pro or anti reality, it's to be impulsively happy to jump to whichever seems to reveal to be the path of least resistance.
I think this video though misses the major point that the ones to benefit the most from postmodern thought were not academia, but markets. What's more postmodern than a commercial? No inherent good, nothing being sacred, cultivates the minimum viable consumer. Consumption being the only method for the faux pas resemblance of meaning.
I really appreciate you taking the time otw write. I’d like to put forth the idea that “meta-modern” is just postmodern
@@StudioPractice1it comes after "the new sincerity" which existed to go back to modernist values, and reacted to it with the "oh this is a cycle" way and patted themselves on the back for noticing it. Thus the whole oscillating thing. But functionaly, we still live in a modernism world, everything after are general readings of collective mass mental pathologies.
'Don't focus on the finger else you will miss all the heavenly glory'.. Who said that?
Bruce ****** lee
How does it makes sense to say, "Uncommitted students who abuse post modern thought through deskilled work are a tiny fraction of the students, so art school is full of terrible shit macerating as deskilled work"
regardless of that, this video comes across as a try hard take down of postmodern thought that gives post modern credit for simple realities that explain things better. 1. we live in a very complicated world 2. people are ignorant of very important things (like how govt work) 3. people don't have the critical thinking skills to understand their ignorance despite feelings of understanding 4. the internet is constantly getting better at using emotionally triggering content that abuses issues 1,2, and 3
I find your choice to include the reality of your personal phone calls interesting, the clip seems fully unedited until the very end.
It is un edited. I had to figure out how to make videos quickly or it wont get done.
Is that not a cut at 19:52?
@skulldaggery_20K9 my point isn’t that there is not a single cut in the video (I think I coughed). My point is that I have moved to writing the videos and shooting them in - single take. So I now do close to zero FCPX editing
Sure, but what I saw was a deliberate choice to make a single cut, and it wasn't during any of the off topic dialogue.
And I just found it interesting in relation to the topic of truth. You demonstrate control with all your other choices in this deliberately planned presentation, and then leave these unplanned distracting bits. Not a value judgement, just an observation that amused me and felt like sharing.
Btw i got an ad while watching this video about a gen AI which could generate and ready package a whole book for digital distribution with a single prompt. Literally a book being sold that no one wrote, read or edited. I can't wait until millions press the "make book button" hundreds of times with the hopes of selling something not even they know what it is. Sry, seems like a non sequitur but not really. What is the point of this? In what manner is our population educated that the thought doesn't immediately emerge that this is not only soulmurderingly imoral but also inevitably leads to the ultimate tragedy of the commons scenario where the market gets saturated with stuff that no one even knows what is and clogs it for everyone else? Is this the price of our unlimited "subjectivity"? "You see, i am still the creator for this book wouldn't exist had I not pressed the button" and there goes to meatgrind pieces of text from our unconsentual collective aether with none accountable. I'm not a traditionalist at all, but fuck, if this doesn't make me go want to just go live in a rural and disconnected village. I'd take the likes of the Amish infinitely over whatever monstrosity we are socially engineering the future generations and the systems guiding them to be like.
Art has nothing common with reality. It is always about someone's subjective perception.
I disagree.
thanks for the free art school sucker...
What’s this mean?
@@StudioPractice1 my way of saying thank you for the perspective and information. I dropped out of AIB (Lesley now) after my first year.
For most people reality really is simply wished away. Take circumcision for example,. This is objectively the physical torture or your child for absolutely no benefit in reality. Despite this, because they were told to by a perceived authority, millions do this to their children. The physical reality of your child in pain is percieved quite differently in this example then in any other example of your child in pain. Its not that there is no objective reality, its just that what people think of reality (which is what the postmodernists see as truth) is a function of power.
Yes there are some people who are dissident and arrive at their own conclusions, but this is a minority and no one can ever be 100% dissident anyway.
"There is something outside myself", "I share reality with other people". These statements are fundamentally assumption. I share them as well of course, but I will admit that at bottom I am only myself, myself being my physical body. I only assume there is something outside of myself shared perceptually with other people.
Fair points… Solipsism is a seductive (and extremely dangerous and lonely world view). It is a statement of fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove the existence of anything outside of the self. My comments to you may in fact, simply be you fabricating me. That the entire external reality is simply a projection and that YOU are the progenitor.
To some degree, it can/could be argued that MOST people are solipsistic nihilists. (They believe only in the existence of themselves *main character syndrome* AND that all life is meaningless. I believe the exact opposite of this - I only hope I’m right).
In the end there are really only two options, God or self.
2:30 nothing is true, everything is permitted?