OVER 100 FREE ENDURO TRAINING VIDS English not your first language? Subtitles in 30+ languages! Basic enduro skills playlist bit.ly/3BtOVyI Intermediate enduro skills playlist bit.ly/3HSkh4r Advanced enduro skills playlist bit.ly/3oNNeqF BIKE SETUP & RIDING GEAR Bike setup playlist: bit.ly/3sBar0i Protective gear playlist: bit.ly/34BYDTI Which bike should I buy? bit.ly/3gLTJG1 Knee protection playlist bit.ly/36fR4Cw OUR OTHER PLAYLISTS Reviews of bikes & products bit.ly/3GQCVrO All about helmets bit.ly/3sJxIgy Enduro philosophy! bit.ly/33meQeV 10 ways to hop logs bit.ly/3JqlOPx The weird side of enduro! bit.ly/3Js1ai2 Read our disclaimer first before attempting any techniques: bit.ly/2U0bgCy Become a supporter! www.crosstrainingenduro.com/cross-training-support-donations.html FFRC is in a state of flux. It changed hands, the new owner was an experienced suspension tuner so I left this video in place. However, he has left now and the FFRC website says they are temporarily closed (July 2022). If it reopens, I have no idea whether there will be an experienced tuner there or not. Google around to find if they are doing high quality work.
What I love about these videos is that they are like a book you read once but if u read it again after 1 year you see it in a different way and learn different things. Well done.
Thanks Mazol. Actually I often go back and rewatch the older vids because sometimes I've forgotten about a certain technique or bit of advice. And yes, get a different perception on things. 😎
DON'T MISINTERPRET THIS VID! A small number of viewers think we are saying never get your suspension done. All we are saying don't fall into the trap of thinking you MUST spend $1000 on every bike to tap into 'hidden performance gains'. You probably need tuning if your bike has crap suspension, or you are a lot heavier than 80kg, or you are using the bike for a different purpose to that intended, or you are super aggressive and/or an expert rider. Or you have bucket loads of cash and just like customising your bike. Otherwise, just think about focusing a bit more on your actual ability, a bit less on expensive bling and suspension tuning. 😊 Example? I get the suspension done on my DR650, it is truly awful once you push the bike hard. And yet for riders up to 85kg the stock setup will be okay if you just cruise around. Nonetheless, I usually don't rush into getting it done, and often wait until it needs servicing. Ditto for my Beta Xtrainer. It has incredibly soft suspension more tuned for trials-style riding. I eventually had it revalved as it was potentially dangerous when riding faster. But again, riders up to 85kg will probably be fine if they just cruise around the trails. Having said that, I rode my bike stock until it was due for a suspension service, then had it revalved. HANDY TIP: Suspension typically needs servicing at 50 hours (could be longer or shorter if you ride hard or gently). If your existing setup isn't dangerous, consider leaving any revalving or tuning until a service is due - much cheaper then. DON'T ASK US FOR SUSPENSION ADVICE OR PERSONAL SETUPS! We are happy to put general tips and opinions in vids but it's pointless asking us about your personal situation. Why? Because at the very least we would need to know: - your weight and height - how much does all your riding gear weigh - riding experience and style of riding - types of terrain you are riding in - model of bike and any existing suspension mods - when was the suspension last serviced - have you set the sag correctly yet - have you played with the clickers yet - choice of knobbies - star sign - size of your gonads. And even then we wouldn't trust your answers and would need to actually go riding with you to gauge these things. And then our opinion would be next to useless anyway because we are only mid-level riders who barely know how to brush our teeth, let alone tune suspension. 😂
Spot on... I rode my 2015 EXC for a couple of months before swapping the springs to match my weight. I went well over a year and various setup trials before finalising that they were too hard on the initial high speed hit and too soft after that mid stroke. I called a guy I know with the same bike to ask him what he did with his as I was thinking about re-valving, which was a perfectly viable option. He just so happened to have an older set of WP Cone Valve forks and Trax shock for sale which I got cheap and serviced them. I’ve ridden them for a year and put heavier for springs in (+2 rates to match my shock and old forks) and more oil (MX volume) for bottoming resistance at the second service. My EXC is now like an XC without a linkage. If I hadn’t got that suspension I’d probably just have got the forks tweaked and go from there. The CV forks are sublime and the Trax shock helps with pumping in the rear, riding a 300 is hard enough, riding an Enduro setup two stroke in the dunes is even harder.... buy them new though and your wife may stab you. 😄 My bike is now where I can adjust between fast desert runs and rock riding. Happy Days. If I wasn’t such a stickler for a smoker, I’d probably have an SX450-F with just a heavier shock spring and spend the above money on some spokeydokeys. 😄 But I love my two strokes too much. 🥰🤪👍🏼 Great videos, keep up the good work. 💪🏼💪🏼🤓
I had to have my suspension re-valved and re-sprung for when I was pregnant and then done again after I gave birth. It was really expensive and not covered by health insurance.
I had my suspension adjusted and readjusted when my wife was pregnant. as my way of joining in the beauty of human reproduction and making it an 'us' thing.
Yeah. For my rm250 the revalving really was a night and day difference when riding it in the woods. I had changed springs, clickers and sag. After revalving I noticeably reduced how often i dropped the bike mid corner and my wrists weren't sore the days after. Saying that I've ridden modern enduro bikes and the stock suspension felt fine.
2024 TX300. I have been modding it for enduro. Necessary? Probably not. I am having Kreft put heavier springs in as I am 50lbs over what came stock on the bike. They are also tuning the valving a bit towards enduro/single track. I will say that the stock suspension is awesome for what this bike was designed to do and I am not yet at a level to max it out.
I bought a 2019 FE 501 Husky - my inseam is only 29.5 " so I had it lowered and I added a 52 tooth rear sprocket to give me a bit lower gearing in the bush at low speeds - I rode it stock for about a month and I had a heck of a time in the bush putting my feet down so that worked. I then got a fatter Seat concept seat and I am good to go. Like you say - spend the money on fuel and having fun now. Those mods have made it a very comfortable and capable bike for me now though. I have added racks and bags to I can use it as real good enduro bike now too.....I can take lots of gear and go for weekends exploring the trails in BC now and not have to take another vehicle to get there. Love your vids because they PULL NO PUNCHES...thanks
Im the wrong side of 112kg and I've ridden on stock suspension since I've been riding, mainly 'cos I'm just a trail hacker, and couldn't afford the $$for an upgrade. Having a simple sag/clicker/rebound setting done by a suspension guru at a trail ride made a huge difference....loosing a few kg did not hurt either!
Put 100 hours on my 2019 300xc and had it revalved/setup for my weight last week. Best thing I’ve ever done could not believe the difference. Had it softened up a lot for enduro and set for my weight
As a racer I’ve done both. Most recently I rode my 2018 300xc-w bone stock for a full year doing EVERYTHING on it from desert, dunes, single track, even some moto. It has limitations I quickly learned to deal with. In year 2 I sent the suspension off for custom tuning to focus more on desert riding and fix some nasty habits the XC-w has. The bike was a blast bone stock and now it’s much improved for my riding conditions and personal abilities. If you have the money and want a drastic improvement then custom suspension is great. If you don’t then enjoy what you have it’s still great and fun.
Great to hear, Brian! I reckon you can easily reap benefits when racing, compared to trail hacks just cruising around. Which forks did WP slap on that year model... Xplor?
CROSS TRAINING ENDURO yes the Xplor and the clickers literally do NOTHING on them which was frustrating. The biggest issue I had is the forks diving at high speed hits and at the same time the rear end rebounding trying to throw you over the bars. Not good in desert :) but even with OEM I loved it and had a blast.
Brian Lampright The biggest problem is not all “tuners” will give you the same results you got. There is likely far more duds then good ones out there, and the only real way to find out is by spending $$$, over and over. I’ve heard of several people who have had negative experiences with tuners and actually had to pay someone else to get their bike back to stock so it was at least rideable. Luckily for me I love the stock suspension on my 17 250xc. Just spent time with the clickers and air pressure to get it dialed. I bought the correct bike for me I guess??
I have had my L7 DRZ400E for 3 years now. Road it with stock suspension for the first year. Changed to heavier springs and played with the clickers in the second year. Added slightly heaver fork oil and now down to the last few compression adjustment for both shock and forks this year. Now is the time for re valving but desperately want a KTM690 now.
I've had all three DRZ models and loved them... I'm doing a review soon over on the adventure riding channel. But they certainly have their limitations if you start to ride aggressively.
I rode my 2018 exactly 4 hours before I tore the suspension off and had it re-sprung and revalved. During those 4 hours I ended up with the clickers wound tight, and it still hurt my wrists so badly it took almost a month to stop hurting. The stock setup is supposed to be good for up to 80kg. Problem is I was 110kg when I got it. And changing the springs to accommodate my weight necessitated revalving to deal with the heavier springs.
Upgrading my '00 KTM 43mm to 2012 CC forks made a very large difference in performance. It tracks better, soaks up all chatter and hits, and feels more planted. Of course those stick forks are not great and the CC's are really good, and I paid to have them worked over, but I'll recommend that all day long. Even if just having more confidence made me faster, it's worth it! Love the vids!
All joking aside, you are absolutely correct that the new bikes have pretty darn good suspension. Especially if you are riding the bike for it's intended purpose...enduro for off road, MX for motocross. When I had my 2001 RM I had to revalve it for the woods, it was just way to harsh. I even put some Enzo sub-tanks on it which made a HUGE difference in the slow chop. I could ride comfortable a gear higher. My Beta, I haven't even touched the clickers after picking it up at the dealer. I did set the sag but then changed to a lower setting . I seem to like the rear a bit lower and at the speed I ride it works nicely. I do like to play with the settings at their limits to see the effect but I'm usually having too much fun riding to do any testing...I can see why some of the pros hate testing!
Thank you for all of the help over the years. It's more helpful than getting gumby advice from the guy next door, and it's absolutely entertaining. Thank you for the long hours you put in to make these videos!
I have a 2020 Beta 300rr and put heavier springs in for my weight 2 sizes up ) and it did make the mid stroke very harsh so I’m going to need to get it revalued because of my new springs. But in the bikes I have had in the past the clickers fixed it without a revaluing.
My new to me used 300xc is set up for a 180lbs B rider. I’m a 230lbs C guy and have done 1 ride and 1 race so far and honestly it feels pretty great. AER forks that I have yet to check pressure on and I attempted to check sag by myself and it’s close to correct I think. I say all that to say realistically I think the Mako bar mounts do me more favors than a revalve would. If anything I probably should get a stiffer rear spring and just set fork pressure at recommended psi and just go out for a day of testing. I consider myself a pretty decent rider and have had 7 different bikes now and this one feels the best so far and it’s pretty heavily used 🤷♂️ I’ll start with rear spring and a rebuild and go from there. Might report back, might not, but I will do a video on my channel for sure
I am 6’3” and ~210. I’ve had my KTM 350 for two years. Had the sag set properly by my mechanic. The bike bottoms on rolling hills at speed and tends to wash out on the front. Replacing the springs front and rear for $250 this week. I know it makes a difference because the first rear spring I installed was so crazy stiff that there was almost no sag. Turns out they sent the one for a 280lb rider not 208lbs. I don’t if there is a level below Gumby but I don’t recall ever dropping my bike that much in one ride. Hopefully I get it back and dialed back into Gumby status soon. Great video and glad to see I am following sage advice.
Right on the money. I know a guy who has his suspension done as soon as he buys a bike. Fresh off the showroom floor. Has done it for every single bike. I'm firmly in the ride it for a while first camp. I've never sent suspension out to be revalved. Make small adjustments to the stock stuff as you ride to see what affect they have. Unless you ride the exact same style of terrain at the exact same speeds, your suspension will always be a compromise as soon as you ride different terrain. Learn to adapt. I've also found the biggest hinderance to good suspension is body weight. Lose weight, your suspension gets better. lol.
Completely agree, David. As you already know. 😊 So many guys say 'Damn this dirt riding is expensive!' but it's usually our choices that make it that way. Yes there are times you probably need suspension tuning (as per the vid) but don't automatically assume you must get it done.
I have a friend with a 2017 husky. When we rode in a group he was always at the back of the pack when I rode with him I always had to wait for him at the corners. One day we got his suspension done and suddently he was always right behind me and didn't have to wait for him anymore. His comment was that the new setup didn't deflect on the roots and rocks so he was more confident that the bike was not going to spit him out. In his case it was well worth it.
Alomost bought one of those because they are great bikes...but went with a Yammy instead because of the suspension. WP 4CS apparently sucks, not that I've tried it, but so I've been told by a mate with a '17 FE450.
Only my personal opinion Donovan, but on the enduro models the 4CS is actually nice and plush if cruising around but just blows through with any spirited riding. while on the motocross models, it's just plain harsh and feels dull. I did google around and many seem to agree....
The 2017-2020 Husky's and KTM's run the Xplor fork, not the 4CS, though the issue remains the same in that they're too soft for any sort of aggressive riding. 2017-2019 forks lacked a midvalve and would blow through the stroke on big hits. 2020's have a midvalve in them but they're not significantly better. I had the forks on an 2018 FE501 modded to put a midvalve kit into them and it made the bike noticeably better to ride. It cornered better and did not feel so unsettled when hitting washouts or braking bumps. On my current bike, 2020 FE501, I have opted to try the Dal Soggio Sphere cartridges. Most of my riding is wide open desert with creeks and gutters so having suspension I can trust at speed is important to me. For general trail riding I might agree that it's not worth the money, but I do think that if it were a choice between a re-spring and re-valve or a $1000 titanium exhaust, you would find more speed from the suspension.
i really don't understand WP's mentality of changing designs then hitting the same issues again, cameron. does it just keep their design team employed? it really makes fun of the 'ready to race' slogan. our local suspension crew keep scratching their heads, wondering why these guys don't get a suspension dyno and just sort the problem out with a few hours of testing, then stick with the resulting design.
Agreed, but if they did that then who would spend $8 - 9k on a set of cone valves and a trax? I think the equipment that comes on the Euro bikes is top notch and they make a great platform for a race bike, but it is not without some work. True for most modern bikes though, none are perfect. The discussion on suspension though still comes back to is it worth it. Will tuning make it better, for sure. Is it worth it depends on you, your riding style and of course your budget. I ride with a lot of guys that have done nothing other than spring their bikes correctly and leave it at that, but even some of those guys have spent more on bling than they did on suspension which is where I think that the money making the bike pretty would be better spent on making it handle.
I believe the spring for weight is nice. I weigh about 105kg and the drz would bottom out, front and back, and the proper springs helped it feel better. And it was cheap and only cost me some time to install
"If you don't move your butt you're just a slab of meat slowing your bike down' - quote of the year right there. Fabulous video, well done. Just put Pivot Pegs on my overweight adventure bike to encourage me to do a bit more butt hustle.
I checked the part numbers on my crf250M and realised they're different to the L. The bike handles great with 44kg extra ballast on the back.... plus she lifts it off me when we crash n carries the picnic. If you're a bit mahoosive n skint, M suspension on your L is the way to go.
Best suspension mod is for the vertically challenged. I lowered mine 1.5". Getting a foot to the ground on a ledge can be the difference between whoops......or OH FUCK!!!
This is how I've always felt about suspension mods. The only money I've ever spent on suspension was to repair a shock with a blown seal (83 Yamaha TT250). I know I'm the weak link on my Husky FE350 and Beta 200rr. My old XR250 has a leaking fork seal. I may pay to have it fixed, or maybe I'll just pour in some more oil
The xplor forks on my 2018 ktm seemed really soft and didnt seem balance out well with the shock on faster trails, but for slower stuff they were preety awesome.
Re the 20/80 split. I used to hang glide at Stanwell Park. It was sort of unique in that complete beginners rubbed shoulders with multiple world champions. During the northern winter lots of professional competition pilots hung out there waiting for the southern hemisphere competition season to start. Part of the rules are that senior pilots are *required* to help the beginners with advice. Not many sports are like that. One day the wind was light and no one could stay up. I was standing near enough to a small group of world champion pilots to listen in, but without (I hoped) looking too much like a star struck fan. This girl went up to Steve Moyes and said she thought her glider might have a slight problem with the trim. It was a Moyes Mars 150 (no coincidence that the name of the company and the name of the World Champion were the same). He kindly offered to take it for a fly. It was a 150, so too small for him, and a beginner glider. He launched into the lightest of breeze while dozens of others (many of them national champions in their own country) were sitting on the hill, unable to stay up. With the lightest of touch, he worked the tiny lift until he was about 100 ft above launch, then put the glider through its paces. That used up his altitude, so again, he eked out the tiny bit of lift until he was 100 above again, and then did the same the other way, then brought it in and landed on top of the hill. Seeing Steve stay up, dozens of others launched. While Steve was testing the girl's glider, they all, every one of them, glided down to the beach unable to stay up.
80% the operator, only 20% the glider? we had a similar thing in some canadian training. a guy says he didn't think his CRF250L was capable of wheelies, could the coach tim coleman see if this was true... tim wheelied down hill slowly. then came back up the hill slowly in a first gear wheelie and said 'it seems to be fine'. 😍
I have been riding my Freeride 350 (2012) and since my riding has become more aggressive the 85SX suspension is not enough. But I have learned how to use my legs and arms to soak up more of the hit - but am riding over the limits of these sticks. Considering of getting a Beta X-Trainer or GasGas EC Ranger. These have a big bike suspension and still act more like trials bikes than the big bikes.
yes you would either need to drastically upgrade the suspension or get a more suitable bike. i think you'll find the xtrainer is very similar though... very soft and designed for semi trials style riding like the freeride. the ranger suspension is a bit more beefed up but still quite soft compared to a full enduro bike.
44, 200lbs, 2018 DR650, first road bike. You had me convinced to follow your upgrades until you rode on the track, and it seemed irrelevant. Never going to push my bike that hard so is it worth it to do forks for braking alone or just enjoy the beauty of a DR ? Thanks for your excellent DR650 vids.
as i think we mentioned in the DR650 series, the stock suspension is okay for everyday road and dual sport riding if you aren't too heavy. it's just inclined to nose dive under emergency braking... no biggie if stopping in a straight line. i guess the only way to know for sure is ride a DR that's been set up nicely and see what you think.
I don't think it made a huge difference in my riding ability, but it certainly made me like the way my bike handled better and it is more comfortable to ride. It's a 2020 FE350 and had about 15 hours on it. Just felt extremely soft for the riding I do, could not get it to firm up to how my old WR250 KYB's were. Now after getting them redone by EVO I would say I love how the bike handles, did it make me better? Maybe a tiny bit, but the bike is much more enjoyable and predictable now.
Good call, good vid. I'd add that if you can't set proper static and race sag with the current bike suspension, likely an automatic heavier/lighter spring candidate. At 6'3, 230lbs, there was no way my YZ250X was ever going to be right. That being said, fork springs and a rear spring later and this is all I would do to this suspension. Rides like a dream.
yamaha have really nailed it with that kayaba SSS setup. our local suspension tuners have a $30,000 dyno machine to fine tune everything and they often use the KYB SSS as their baseline.
Sorry for spamming but you are by far the best advice giver on youtube. Steering dampeners. Yah or nah? They're expensive but i've hit a crapload of speed wobbles, especially when you're in 6th gear (kdx) and flat out... some brown underpants type situations. Could it perhaps be my riding style or would a dampener assist? I usually power out of the wobble because i've noticed more power = safer outcomes. I'm not usually flat out but often enough where i won't have enough time to react or won't see a dip that sidelines me and gives us a tankslapper.
glad you are enjoying the vids. 😊 riding technique? i don't know, we never ride fast. i do hear that powering out is the motocross style though. i'd suggest having a look at the vids about steering dampers and choosing a front tyre profile... here's how to find them: ua-cam.com/video/DBTSq8OdWIc/v-deo.html
Deft should change your springs to you’re correct weight I just had a hefty bill to get my rear shock fixed as I did major damage from it constantly bottoming out. When a spring change would of saved me a several 100
The only time I feel like a revalve is needed is if the rider is way out of the weight spectrum (either direction) or the rider is trying to make one bike suit a different purpose, for example a Mx bike being converted to a trail bike. Almost every really fast guy I know rides stock suspension. Fitness, hours on the bike and skill are 10x more important than anything you can bolt on to your bike. My riding has improved substantially since I just started riding more. Over 200 hrs in the last 1.5 years for me. Was well under 100 hrs a year before, and several years where I hardly rode at all. I’m almost a decent rider now lol
Top tip: switching to olive oil in the forks and avocado oil in the shock is guaranteed to reduce lap times by 33.33333 (repeating, of course) percent. Extra virgin olive oil works best.
thank you very much, very interesting ! I have a big question, essential question for extreme enduro : what do you recommend as settings ? will you make a specal vid on that topic please ? is it enough to "fully open" the compression and the rebound of a new recent bike ? Because, seeing G. Jarvis moving his bike without engine using the rebound effect, other guys doing big "dobble blop" using the same effect, is it necessary to have "super smooth" suspensions with a very smooth comp ?... AND, if yes, how do you ride thhen fast in 4th or 5th gear on some sections, or jump in 1st gear 1,5 m high steps with "extreme enduro set-up" ? I am so curious !! You are the only one I would listen the advise of !!! When I listen to J. Walker saying on many vids "my bike is pretty much out of the box" I am so laughing. To lie so much should be taxed !! Thanks so much for your excellent work and analysis !
I ride a DR650, so yes, my suspension needed an upgrade. Fortunately, I've already done it. When I got mine upgraded, I learned I had a blown nitrogen bladder around back. Talk about pogoing!!! I'm tickled that I got mine done, and I don't think anyone would argue that it didn't need it. Now I can climb trees, jump mountains, wheelie through rivers and forage through the deepest snow. NOT!
yes the DR650 is absolutely a candidate for suspension work unless you are light and just cruise around gently all the time! and even then the dual rate springs in the front have WAY too much soft rate spring compared to hard rate. who knows what the engineers were thinking.
I used to think the suspension on my 2006 crf 450 was great even in the trails. Finally bought a new bike (2017 fx450) Unbelievable difference in the rough trails. I have never felt so much traction in the nasty stuff. The 18 inch rear wheel is a lot of it but the suspension is way more forgiving than the motocross bike was, haven't adjusted it from stock. 6 psi in the rear with the tubliss was the topper.
I just bought a nice 2003 KTM 450 EXC. Previous owner was 180 pounds and was able to get away with only adjustments. I'm about 90 pounds heavier so I think I need a revalve and new springs lol! I am losing weight though!
Good reminders Barry. I’ve been on the receiving end of bad suspension (drz400) and it becoming unsafe as my skill level increased. Switching to a 200exc was a night and day difference. However, as I start to look for a new bike I keep getting put off on certain bikes because I’m told the suspension is crappy. The more modern bikes I get seat time on the more I’m coming to think that these people are blaming the bike instead of themselves and their lack of riding skills. I don’t want to be part of that problem. It’s time for me to get over my fear of messing with the clickers and setting on my suspension and start learning to get the most out of what I have.
i agree nick, that DRZ suspension might be okay for easy dual sport riding but it can get you into trouble once you start pushing it! i'm very skeptical of all forum opinions unless i've come to trust someone's opinion (i often say viewers should be skeptical of my opinions too lol). the classic was a guy on a popular forum who would give extremely detailed opinions about various knobbies. he sounded like a pro level rider and then one day i actually rode with him and he was only just above novice level. but he had learned to talk the talk... i am probably in the same category. 😂
I listened to Jimmy Lewis podcast and he suggested that non-professional riders after sag and making sure your in the ballpark for weight, turn the clickers (one at a time of course) to the extremes to feel the difference then start pulling them back to see what you like. Mr Lewis said little changes may not be noticed by most people so try the extremes so you know what your suspension can do. After one quick ride I understand what I don't like and that as long as we are some place near my " ideal set up" it doesn't effect me much and it was FREE and easy, but I suck at riding so the cost benefit is easy.
our local suspension crew offer the same advice to guys who they feel don't really need suspension tuning. except they say alter the clickers by two or three clicks at a time, they reckon one click makes so little difference even expert riders won't pick the difference.
after years of riding motocross bikes off-road with no suspension changes, then hopping on a modern ktm exc 300 for a day in the woods I could not believe how much better the enduro-specific suspension was. it was like magic.
Someone who owns a DRZ might chime in on this one. But we can't really comment. As per our pinned first comment: We are happy to put general tips and opinions in vids but it's pointless asking us about your personal situation. Why? Because at the very least we would need to know: - your weight and height - how much does all your riding gear weigh - riding experience and style of riding - types of terrain you are riding in - model of bike and any existing suspension mods - when was the suspension last serviced - have you set the sag correctly yet - have you played with the clickers yet - choice of knobbies - star sign - size of your gonads. And even then we wouldn't trust your answers and would need to actually go riding with you to gauge these things. And then our opinion would be next to useless anyway because we are only mid-level riders who barely know how to brush our teeth, let alone tune suspension. 😂
I went for a tougher springs after 20mth and eventhough I am 105kg with all the gear. I still got 85-95kg springs, which are totaly fine for me, that was a big step up. The problem is the tougher springs you get, the more problem you will have with the rebound, because the force of the spring is bigger when comming back up and the stock valves may not be able to handle this force! And after 110mth I have decided to go for the new Showa cartridge, because WP Xplor is really good at the slow stuff, but once you go faster, it is totaly unreliable, sometimes I really dont know what to expect from the fork. I even tried riding over the same obstacles over and over again and sometimes the fork sends you flying where you really dont wanna go. I am not saying it is not the rider, but I would like to try something new to be sure :).
interesting, that was the common issue reported with the 4CS forks. it is strange after all these years that WP can't stay with one design, really nail it, then use that permanently. is it just to keep their design team employed? yamaha showed it's possible with the KYB SSS....
@@crosstrainingenduro There is a really good and informative video from Kreft moto that shows, that WP really simplified the forks (to save money of course), but unfortunately their compresion valve does not work that well, and the clickers do close to nothing. So even compared to 4CS, the Xplor is even worse. Some companies like Dal Soggio make kits to fix the valve problem. But I have not tried any of these.
our local suspension tuners put the 4CS forks on the dyno and spotted the problems immediately. then they tore the forks down and realised the design wasn't finished properly by WP. apparently they just drilled a hole at some key point then they worked really well. some mob on thumpertalk discuss this too, maybe it's kreft?
Probably a bit softer? But I don't really know. I always leave my bikes stock... except for the Beta Xtrainer as it was too soft and bouncy for my weight.
Honestly, don't underestimate the placebo effect of plastering Öhlins stickers all your old shitter, works a treat. As does writing _Jarvis 1_ in texta on your jersey.
Improving your technique is the best answer for results, but if you are looking to spend money on your bike then suspension is number 1. The correct spring rate for your weight is the best improvement to start with.
I know this is a year old but just wanna thank your for your quality videos and all the laughs . I bet my wife wishes I could pay attention to her like I do your videos 😂
Thought I needed to have the forks on my TE310R revalved. Nope. Huge stiction from the factory. Greased the fork seals and improved my suspension and riding with 5 minutes of "suspension tuning"
I'd have to agree, you will find that the stock suspension on modern bikes is superb. I bought a KTM freeride 250R and the previous Rider had totally wrecked the suspension by fitting different springs and God knows what. I had a suspension guy look at it and change the springs back to normal and it was absolutely perfect. I have recently bought the electric freeride KTM and the suspension on that just completely blows me away. I can pin it over the worst ruts and bad ground and the thing just floats over everything and rides straight. It's really unbelievable. As you said in the video, the bike's ability ways surpasses my own.
My brother and I were just talking about the electric Freeride yesterday, Justin? KTM was promoting them like mad then suddenly went all quiet and production stopped. Any idea what happened?
I'll have to look around and see if they'll be available in Australia. I hope they have some breakthroughs in the weight, the current model is still around 111kg which is similar to say a 350XCF-W with a full tank of fuel.
That’s crazy with the pros not touching things. I heard some of them get the A-kit suspension on their bikes whether they ask for it or not. I would guess they’d have similar lap times either way
that's only three riders we've spoken to. on the other hand, chris birch has about $6000 worth of ohlins suspension he just transferred from bike to bike when he was in the top three of hard enduro. i'm sure plenty of pro riders (especially outside of hard enduro) do lots of suspension mods but the fact remains quite a lot don't.
I think that suspension mods are quite similar to changes in gearing, power maps, etc. If there is a problem that is getting in a way of your riding, or maybe that manifest at a track you ride often, then you'd know exactly what you want to change and if you can afford it, you should. But just going to the shop and telling them "tune my bike" is a waste of money.
Sorry, spending 3K on suspension is so amazing It’s cheating. The DLC coating makes a huge difference. Maybe not for hard enduro but for desert whoops and 3rd gear single track the advantage is significant. I’m 60+ and need any help I can get but sometimes I feel bad when the 30 year olds are asking for a break when I’m good to go. i don’t let on that if I were riding on their bikes I’d be asking for a stretcher not a break.
The stock suspension is more than adequate for your average ape rider. Unless your a professional MX racer, don't waste your money on "trick" suspension set-ups.
Yeah the suspension has a range it’s ok within based on speed and weight. But it’s beautiful when it’s spot on buttery smooth over bumps and still takes the biggest of hits without unwanted super mans.
cheers, oli. i know it can make a big difference in some situations e.g. a bike with crap suspension, or you are pretty heavy or a very fast rider etc. but i'm concerned that riders relatively new to dirt riding will automatically assume they MUST get a revalve to improve their riding dramatically!
I was never really happy with the Sachs OC forks. I never got around to revalving it.. just a respringing.. I just always thought they could have / should have been better in my rocky terrain
Yep, the old DRZ400E definitely required the $1100 spring & valving upgrade and was definitely getting dangerous when pushing the stock suspension. Bless the old doctor
Yep, the old DR650 and DRZ400 need work the moment you want to push them along a bit! It's a pity Suzuki doesn't at least do some very basic mods which would cost them nothing... use higher weight oils, stiffer springs, and ditch the stupid dual rate fork springs they put in the DR.
Reformed motocrosser here, so take what I'm saying and promptly disregard it. I would. At any rate, when you're smashing tracks at silly speeds with such wildly variable terrain inputs, suspension pretty quickly becomes a pretty critical component to what you're doing in terms of both speed and safety. A lot of racers, at least the ones I'm still in touch with, put a lot of stock in getting "built" suspension. That said: I really think you're dead on right when you are saying that modern suspension is really good off the showroom floor. I'm running a '19 RR Race, and all I've done to the suspension is clickers and set sag...but that took me a good 40 hours to bother getting around to. I might go in for some stiffer fork springs, but that's just a personal preference for me.
a good point, aztec. i'm kind of assuming that anyone who really knows their stuff doesn't need to watch this vid. and of course this channel is geared more toward guys doing slow gnarly riding, i doubt motocrossers will be watching much! this vid is more for guys fairly new to dirt riding who can be easily convinced they MUST get their suspension done to tap into massive performance gains. 😊
@@crosstrainingenduro 100% agree! I was just (badly) pontificating on some of the root causes of this behavior. You raise some points that I have been trying to put my finger on for a while and highlight them. I just see a common thread with a lot of the older moto guys crossing into the trail systems being the poster boys for dropping a pile of money into their suspension. It's a consistent behavior, and I've had long talks with newer guys trying to dissuade them from drinking the "spend all your money on suspension upgrades" fruit flavored beverage. I appreciate the content you're putting out! And thanks a ton for responding! I feel special now! (I know you respond to a lot of comments, but I've been lurking for a while now and only now had something to contribute to the conversation)
My new 2019 Honda CRF450L is being plauged by "Must have" mods. I've put hand guards, a new seat and tires, once the original ones wore out. Oh, I did put a heavier spring on the shock. The sag couldn't be set, properly with the stock spring. Others insist it is unrideable without a new ECU, exhaust system, springs and revalve front and rear! A couple of guys are at the $30,000.00 mark, for mods. I guess it depends on your last bike. Mine was a 1990 Yamaha DT200R. This bike is a revelation. But, most people want something better than their last motorcycle.
I just noticed that they guy riding the beta was at sanders apple orchard, I used to live across the road from that place and used to race in the MCRCV club. Awesome 👍 and how the hell did that bloke just 180 pop over those logs
I literally just shipped my wr250r suspension off to get revalved, after riding my yz250 more I noticed the wrr lacked confidence/had extremly dangerous pogo on the rear
as per a previous comment it might take a while. first we have to catch jarvis then pin him down to extract fluids... and he's pretty fast even now he's over 40. 🤔
6foot 2” 250lbs..... uprated my springs on my Drz400e recently, made a difference hell yes, made me any faster who cares, maybe silly but 7 years of “off road” riding who cares if it’s the bike or me. I just enjoy the bike more these days
"It's 80% the rider and only 20% the bike...." The springs are often on the weaker side for my 118 kilos + gear so a wee bit stiffer springs helps a little but the stock springs for a 70kg rider works too. And just as I posted my comment the 80-20 rule appeared on the screen:-) In the words of Anders Eriksson when I attended one of his classes, "ut me arslet!" " " ass out!"
So I Shouldn't opt for the Slavins Racing $20,000 XCW 300? Its not gonna make me lose 30 lbs and ride like Graham Jarvis? I agree Work with what you got, Spring a Shock for your weight, Run good low tire pressure, Stand Up, Then possibly play with your clickers
if it turns your crank, that $20,000 bike might be just the ticket lol. some guys do spend crazy amounts on their bikes and do get lasting enjoyment from being the king of bling. but my concern is when guys can't really afford to spend heaps, but are convinced by others they must throw buckets of cash at their suspension... and in some cases there's only marginal improvement and the poor bastard has to convince himself it was worth it. sadly it happens pretty often in so many respects.
I was like... dang, I just need to get good... but then the motocross conversion came up and was relieved. I am not sure with my skill level any amount of suspension work would make me any faster or better on my kx250f.
My 2020 Beta 300rr has suspension that’s 100 time better than I am a rider. I haven’t even adjusted a clicker or set the sag. I am 172 lbs without gear so I don’t believe I need to but I should check the sag I suppose.
@@chris3407 yup, bottoming, and kicking up off of small rocks. Springs made a huge difference, and put my ride height under weight up about 2", to where it fits me better.
So wait a minute , are you saying that all the used graham Jarvis condom cathiders I bought and have been putting in my bikes oil and gas don’t make me a better rider??? Ah nuts . Should I still put some in my morning coffee?
anything that has been infused with graham's sweat is going to work, no doubt about it. however you don't take those orally, for best results you need rectal insertion.
So true. But then you aren't trying to sell unnecessary stuff to (gullible) people and make money for the middle men! Same applies to so many other consumer goods. Your opinion is so refreshing!
Cheers, Paul. It's already an expensive sport for a lot of guys then all these magazines and vids are telling us we won't ride well until we spend huge amounts of money on bling... 😒
To be fair, those guys are riding new factory euro bikes with out of the box legit suspension. I did a SSS swap off of a 2011 yz450F on my 00 yz250 and had it built for me. Wayyyyyy better. Also the Rekluse auto, shinko cheater and rear hand brake make me seem better than I am, lol.
yep, our local suspension guys have a $30,000 dyno and they use the kayaba SSS charts as their ideal baseline. KTM would save themselves a lot of trouble if they ditched their WP brand and just opted for kayaba!
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FFRC is in a state of flux. It changed hands, the new owner was an experienced suspension tuner so I left this video in place. However, he has left now and the FFRC website says they are temporarily closed (July 2022). If it reopens, I have no idea whether there will be an experienced tuner there or not. Google around to find if they are doing high quality work.
What I love about these videos is that they are like a book you read once but if u read it again after 1 year you see it in a different way and learn different things. Well done.
Thanks Mazol. Actually I often go back and rewatch the older vids because sometimes I've forgotten about a certain technique or bit of advice. And yes, get a different perception on things. 😎
DON'T MISINTERPRET THIS VID! A small number of viewers think we are saying never get your suspension done. All we are saying don't fall into the trap of thinking you MUST spend $1000 on every bike to tap into 'hidden performance gains'. You probably need tuning if your bike has crap suspension, or you are a lot heavier than 80kg, or you are using the bike for a different purpose to that intended, or you are super aggressive and/or an expert rider. Or you have bucket loads of cash and just like customising your bike. Otherwise, just think about focusing a bit more on your actual ability, a bit less on expensive bling and suspension tuning. 😊 Example? I get the suspension done on my DR650, it is truly awful once you push the bike hard. And yet for riders up to 85kg the stock setup will be okay if you just cruise around. Nonetheless, I usually don't rush into getting it done, and often wait until it needs servicing. Ditto for my Beta Xtrainer. It has incredibly soft suspension more tuned for trials-style riding. I eventually had it revalved as it was potentially dangerous when riding faster. But again, riders up to 85kg will probably be fine if they just cruise around the trails. Having said that, I rode my bike stock until it was due for a suspension service, then had it revalved.
HANDY TIP: Suspension typically needs servicing at 50 hours (could be longer or shorter if you ride hard or gently). If your existing setup isn't dangerous, consider leaving any revalving or tuning until a service is due - much cheaper then.
DON'T ASK US FOR SUSPENSION ADVICE OR PERSONAL SETUPS! We are happy to put general tips and opinions in vids but it's pointless asking us about your personal situation. Why? Because at the very least we would need to know:
- your weight and height
- how much does all your riding gear weigh
- riding experience and style of riding
- types of terrain you are riding in
- model of bike and any existing suspension mods
- when was the suspension last serviced
- have you set the sag correctly yet
- have you played with the clickers yet
- choice of knobbies
- star sign
- size of your gonads.
And even then we wouldn't trust your answers and would need to actually go riding with you to gauge these things. And then our opinion would be next to useless anyway because we are only mid-level riders who barely know how to brush our teeth, let alone tune suspension. 😂
Hey Barry, Barry......Baaaarrryyyyyy which bike should Ibuy Barry?
BAZ CAN YOU HEAR ME
@@ryanclarke2161 goldwing with knobbies, then buy the $900 anodized billet alloy fuel cap, then the $6000 ohlins suspension setup
Spot on... I rode my 2015 EXC for a couple of months before swapping the springs to match my weight. I went well over a year and various setup trials before finalising that they were too hard on the initial high speed hit and too soft after that mid stroke. I called a guy I know with the same bike to ask him what he did with his as I was thinking about re-valving, which was a perfectly viable option. He just so happened to have an older set of WP Cone Valve forks and Trax shock for sale which I got cheap and serviced them. I’ve ridden them for a year and put heavier for springs in (+2 rates to match my shock and old forks) and more oil (MX volume) for bottoming resistance at the second service. My EXC is now like an XC without a linkage. If I hadn’t got that suspension I’d probably just have got the forks tweaked and go from there. The CV forks are sublime and the Trax shock helps with pumping in the rear, riding a 300 is hard enough, riding an Enduro setup two stroke in the dunes is even harder.... buy them new though and your wife may stab you. 😄 My bike is now where I can adjust between fast desert runs and rock riding. Happy Days. If I wasn’t such a stickler for a smoker, I’d probably have an SX450-F with just a heavier shock spring and spend the above money on some spokeydokeys. 😄 But I love my two strokes too much. 🥰🤪👍🏼 Great videos, keep up the good work. 💪🏼💪🏼🤓
I had to have my suspension re-valved and re-sprung for when I was pregnant and then done again after I gave birth. It was really expensive and not covered by health insurance.
dangerous as most dirt bike aren't set up for two riders 😉
@@crosstrainingenduro LMAO!
I had my suspension adjusted and readjusted when my wife was pregnant. as my way of joining in the beauty of human reproduction and making it an 'us' thing.
@@paulfeasey2695 😂
I'm big believer in the 'adjust and ride what it has' suspension group.
I've upgraded my suspension and revalved it and it really made a big difference in my riding.
Yeah. For my rm250 the revalving really was a night and day difference when riding it in the woods. I had changed springs, clickers and sag. After revalving I noticeably reduced how often i dropped the bike mid corner and my wrists weren't sore the days after.
Saying that I've ridden modern enduro bikes and the stock suspension felt fine.
agreed jonno, a motocross bike being used in the woods is almost always a candidate for suspension tuning.
2024 TX300. I have been modding it for enduro. Necessary? Probably not. I am having Kreft put heavier springs in as I am 50lbs over what came stock on the bike. They are also tuning the valving a bit towards enduro/single track. I will say that the stock suspension is awesome for what this bike was designed to do and I am not yet at a level to max it out.
I bought a 2019 FE 501 Husky - my inseam is only 29.5 " so I had it lowered and I added a 52 tooth rear sprocket to give me a bit lower gearing in the bush at low speeds - I rode it stock for about a month and I had a heck of a time in the bush putting my feet down so that worked.
I then got a fatter Seat concept seat and I am good to go. Like you say - spend the money on fuel and having fun now.
Those mods have made it a very comfortable and capable bike for me now though.
I have added racks and bags to I can use it as real good enduro bike now too.....I can take lots of gear and go for weekends exploring the trails in BC now and not have to take another vehicle to get there.
Love your vids because they PULL NO PUNCHES...thanks
Great to hear, Jerry! I keep hearing the 501/ KTM 500 is a very reliable platform and many guys are adventurising these for longer rides.
Old story 10% bike 90% rider. Thanks barry awesome advice
My favorite motorcycle UA-cam Channel. My Australian brother from another mother with a great sense of humor.
you are too kind, my amphibious friend 😁
Im the wrong side of 112kg and I've ridden on stock suspension since I've been riding, mainly 'cos I'm just a trail hacker, and couldn't afford the $$for an upgrade. Having a simple sag/clicker/rebound setting done by a suspension guru at a trail ride made a huge difference....loosing a few kg did not hurt either!
Put 100 hours on my 2019 300xc and had it revalved/setup for my weight last week. Best thing I’ve ever done could not believe the difference. Had it softened up a lot for enduro and set for my weight
Question so for Enduro riding generally it should be soft?
I never blame my suspension for my poor riding... it’s the TYRES...
and engine oil for a close second, matt. 😊
As a racer I’ve done both. Most recently I rode my 2018 300xc-w bone stock for a full year doing EVERYTHING on it from desert, dunes, single track, even some moto. It has limitations I quickly learned to deal with. In year 2 I sent the suspension off for custom tuning to focus more on desert riding and fix some nasty habits the XC-w has. The bike was a blast bone stock and now it’s much improved for my riding conditions and personal abilities. If you have the money and want a drastic improvement then custom suspension is great. If you don’t then enjoy what you have it’s still great and fun.
Great to hear, Brian! I reckon you can easily reap benefits when racing, compared to trail hacks just cruising around. Which forks did WP slap on that year model... Xplor?
CROSS TRAINING ENDURO yes the Xplor and the clickers literally do NOTHING on them which was frustrating. The biggest issue I had is the forks diving at high speed hits and at the same time the rear end rebounding trying to throw you over the bars. Not good in desert :) but even with OEM I loved it and had a blast.
Brian Lampright The biggest problem is not all “tuners” will give you the same results you got. There is likely far more duds then good ones out there, and the only real way to find out is by spending $$$, over and over. I’ve heard of several people who have had negative experiences with tuners and actually had to pay someone else to get their bike back to stock so it was at least rideable. Luckily for me I love the stock suspension on my 17 250xc. Just spent time with the clickers and air pressure to get it dialed. I bought the correct bike for me I guess??
I have had my L7 DRZ400E for 3 years now. Road it with stock suspension for the first year. Changed to heavier springs and played with the clickers in the second year. Added slightly heaver fork oil and now down to the last few compression adjustment for both shock and forks this year. Now is the time for re valving but desperately want a KTM690 now.
I've had all three DRZ models and loved them... I'm doing a review soon over on the adventure riding channel. But they certainly have their limitations if you start to ride aggressively.
What a great video and point! The best riders will be the best riders.. I could dump a hundred grand in a bike and still never be a Jarvis..
I rode my 2018 exactly 4 hours before I tore the suspension off and had it re-sprung and revalved. During those 4 hours I ended up with the clickers wound tight, and it still hurt my wrists so badly it took almost a month to stop hurting. The stock setup is supposed to be good for up to 80kg. Problem is I was 110kg when I got it. And changing the springs to accommodate my weight necessitated revalving to deal with the heavier springs.
Upgrading my '00 KTM 43mm to 2012 CC forks made a very large difference in performance. It tracks better, soaks up all chatter and hits, and feels more planted. Of course those stick forks are not great and the CC's are really good, and I paid to have them worked over, but I'll recommend that all day long. Even if just having more confidence made me faster, it's worth it! Love the vids!
All joking aside, you are absolutely correct that the new bikes have pretty darn good suspension. Especially if you are riding the bike for it's intended purpose...enduro for off road, MX for motocross. When I had my 2001 RM I had to revalve it for the woods, it was just way to harsh. I even put some Enzo sub-tanks on it which made a HUGE difference in the slow chop. I could ride comfortable a gear higher.
My Beta, I haven't even touched the clickers after picking it up at the dealer. I did set the sag but then changed to a lower setting . I seem to like the rear a bit lower and at the speed I ride it works nicely. I do like to play with the settings at their limits to see the effect but I'm usually having too much fun riding to do any testing...I can see why some of the pros hate testing!
Thank you for all of the help over the years. It's more helpful than getting gumby advice from the guy next door, and it's absolutely entertaining. Thank you for the long hours you put in to make these videos!
my pleasure, keith!
I have a 2020 Beta 300rr and put heavier springs in for my weight 2 sizes up ) and it did make the mid stroke very harsh so I’m going to need to get it revalued because of my new springs. But in the bikes I have had in the past the clickers fixed it without a revaluing.
My new to me used 300xc is set up for a 180lbs B rider. I’m a 230lbs C guy and have done 1 ride and 1 race so far and honestly it feels pretty great. AER forks that I have yet to check pressure on and I attempted to check sag by myself and it’s close to correct I think.
I say all that to say realistically I think the Mako bar mounts do me more favors than a revalve would.
If anything I probably should get a stiffer rear spring and just set fork pressure at recommended psi and just go out for a day of testing.
I consider myself a pretty decent rider and have had 7 different bikes now and this one feels the best so far and it’s pretty heavily used 🤷♂️
I’ll start with rear spring and a rebuild and go from there. Might report back, might not, but I will do a video on my channel for sure
I am 6’3” and ~210. I’ve had my KTM 350 for two years. Had the sag set properly by my mechanic. The bike bottoms on rolling hills at speed and tends to wash out on the front. Replacing the springs front and rear for $250 this week. I know it makes a difference because the first rear spring I installed was so crazy stiff that there was almost no sag. Turns out they sent the one for a 280lb rider not 208lbs. I don’t if there is a level below Gumby but I don’t recall ever dropping my bike that much in one ride. Hopefully I get it back and dialed back into Gumby status soon. Great video and glad to see I am following sage advice.
ugh, yeah i suspect overly stiff suspension is going to be more dangerous than soft suspension... at least for us average joes!
Right on the money. I know a guy who has his suspension done as soon as he buys a bike. Fresh off the showroom floor. Has done it for every single bike. I'm firmly in the ride it for a while first camp. I've never sent suspension out to be revalved. Make small adjustments to the stock stuff as you ride to see what affect they have. Unless you ride the exact same style of terrain at the exact same speeds, your suspension will always be a compromise as soon as you ride different terrain. Learn to adapt. I've also found the biggest hinderance to good suspension is body weight. Lose weight, your suspension gets better. lol.
Completely agree, David. As you already know. 😊 So many guys say 'Damn this dirt riding is expensive!' but it's usually our choices that make it that way. Yes there are times you probably need suspension tuning (as per the vid) but don't automatically assume you must get it done.
I have a friend with a 2017 husky. When we rode in a group he was always at the back of the pack when I rode with him I always had to wait for him at the corners. One day we got his suspension done and suddently he was always right behind me and didn't have to wait for him anymore. His comment was that the new setup didn't deflect on the roots and rocks so he was more confident that the bike was not going to spit him out. In his case it was well worth it.
Alomost bought one of those because they are great bikes...but went with a Yammy instead because of the suspension. WP 4CS apparently sucks, not that I've tried it, but so I've been told by a mate with a '17 FE450.
Only my personal opinion Donovan, but on the enduro models the 4CS is actually nice and plush if cruising around but just blows through with any spirited riding. while on the motocross models, it's just plain harsh and feels dull. I did google around and many seem to agree....
The 2017-2020 Husky's and KTM's run the Xplor fork, not the 4CS, though the issue remains the same in that they're too soft for any sort of aggressive riding. 2017-2019 forks lacked a midvalve and would blow through the stroke on big hits. 2020's have a midvalve in them but they're not significantly better. I had the forks on an 2018 FE501 modded to put a midvalve kit into them and it made the bike noticeably better to ride. It cornered better and did not feel so unsettled when hitting washouts or braking bumps. On my current bike, 2020 FE501, I have opted to try the Dal Soggio Sphere cartridges. Most of my riding is wide open desert with creeks and gutters so having suspension I can trust at speed is important to me. For general trail riding I might agree that it's not worth the money, but I do think that if it were a choice between a re-spring and re-valve or a $1000 titanium exhaust, you would find more speed from the suspension.
i really don't understand WP's mentality of changing designs then hitting the same issues again, cameron. does it just keep their design team employed? it really makes fun of the 'ready to race' slogan. our local suspension crew keep scratching their heads, wondering why these guys don't get a suspension dyno and just sort the problem out with a few hours of testing, then stick with the resulting design.
Agreed, but if they did that then who would spend $8 - 9k on a set of cone valves and a trax? I think the equipment that comes on the Euro bikes is top notch and they make a great platform for a race bike, but it is not without some work. True for most modern bikes though, none are perfect. The discussion on suspension though still comes back to is it worth it. Will tuning make it better, for sure. Is it worth it depends on you, your riding style and of course your budget. I ride with a lot of guys that have done nothing other than spring their bikes correctly and leave it at that, but even some of those guys have spent more on bling than they did on suspension which is where I think that the money making the bike pretty would be better spent on making it handle.
I believe the spring for weight is nice. I weigh about 105kg and the drz would bottom out, front and back, and the proper springs helped it feel better. And it was cheap and only cost me some time to install
"If you don't move your butt you're just a slab of meat slowing your bike down' - quote of the year right there. Fabulous video, well done. Just put Pivot Pegs on my overweight adventure bike to encourage me to do a bit more butt hustle.
I checked the part numbers on my crf250M and realised they're different to the L. The bike handles great with 44kg extra ballast on the back.... plus she lifts it off me when we crash n carries the picnic.
If you're a bit mahoosive n skint, M suspension on your L is the way to go.
A couple clicks of more compression in my shock made a massive good difference. Only change one thing at a time when testing.
Best suspension mod is for the vertically challenged. I lowered mine 1.5". Getting a foot to the ground on a ledge can be the difference between whoops......or OH FUCK!!!
But how about I'm 65kg with gear and my bike stock setting for 85kg? I'm just riding mx
This is how I've always felt about suspension mods. The only money I've ever spent on suspension was to repair a shock with a blown seal (83 Yamaha TT250). I know I'm the weak link on my Husky FE350 and Beta 200rr. My old XR250 has a leaking fork seal. I may pay to have it fixed, or maybe I'll just pour in some more oil
The xplor forks on my 2018 ktm seemed really soft and didnt seem balance out well with the shock on faster trails, but for slower stuff they were preety awesome.
Geeze Barry. I've done all I can to my gen1's suspension and it's still a great steaming lump. We're perfectly suited to one another. Cheers.
a bit like dogs maybe, bob? our suspension grows to look like us? 😂
Re the 20/80 split.
I used to hang glide at Stanwell Park. It was sort of unique in that complete beginners rubbed shoulders with multiple world champions. During the northern winter lots of professional competition pilots hung out there waiting for the southern hemisphere competition season to start. Part of the rules are that senior pilots are *required* to help the beginners with advice. Not many sports are like that. One day the wind was light and no one could stay up. I was standing near enough to a small group of world champion pilots to listen in, but without (I hoped) looking too much like a star struck fan. This girl went up to Steve Moyes and said she thought her glider might have a slight problem with the trim. It was a Moyes Mars 150 (no coincidence that the name of the company and the name of the World Champion were the same). He kindly offered to take it for a fly. It was a 150, so too small for him, and a beginner glider.
He launched into the lightest of breeze while dozens of others (many of them national champions in their own country) were sitting on the hill, unable to stay up. With the lightest of touch, he worked the tiny lift until he was about 100 ft above launch, then put the glider through its paces. That used up his altitude, so again, he eked out the tiny bit of lift until he was 100 above again, and then did the same the other way, then brought it in and landed on top of the hill. Seeing Steve stay up, dozens of others launched. While Steve was testing the girl's glider, they all, every one of them, glided down to the beach unable to stay up.
80% the operator, only 20% the glider? we had a similar thing in some canadian training. a guy says he didn't think his CRF250L was capable of wheelies, could the coach tim coleman see if this was true... tim wheelied down hill slowly. then came back up the hill slowly in a first gear wheelie and said 'it seems to be fine'. 😍
Do you sell these gas cap things on your website? asking for a friend
you'll need to provide a hefty bribe first to our nigerian admin manager...
I have been riding my Freeride 350 (2012) and since my riding has become more aggressive the 85SX suspension is not enough. But I have learned how to use my legs and arms to soak up more of the hit - but am riding over the limits of these sticks. Considering of getting a Beta X-Trainer or GasGas EC Ranger. These have a big bike suspension and still act more like trials bikes than the big bikes.
yes you would either need to drastically upgrade the suspension or get a more suitable bike. i think you'll find the xtrainer is very similar though... very soft and designed for semi trials style riding like the freeride. the ranger suspension is a bit more beefed up but still quite soft compared to a full enduro bike.
44, 200lbs, 2018 DR650, first road bike. You had me convinced to follow your upgrades until you rode on the track, and it seemed irrelevant. Never going to push my bike that hard so is it worth it to do forks for braking alone or just enjoy the beauty of a DR ?
Thanks for your excellent DR650 vids.
as i think we mentioned in the DR650 series, the stock suspension is okay for everyday road and dual sport riding if you aren't too heavy. it's just inclined to nose dive under emergency braking... no biggie if stopping in a straight line. i guess the only way to know for sure is ride a DR that's been set up nicely and see what you think.
@@crosstrainingenduro thanks, I just wanted to know for safety reasons.
I don't think it made a huge difference in my riding ability, but it certainly made me like the way my bike handled better and it is more comfortable to ride. It's a 2020 FE350 and had about 15 hours on it. Just felt extremely soft for the riding I do, could not get it to firm up to how my old WR250 KYB's were. Now after getting them redone by EVO I would say I love how the bike handles, did it make me better? Maybe a tiny bit, but the bike is much more enjoyable and predictable now.
Good call, good vid. I'd add that if you can't set proper static and race sag with the current bike suspension, likely an automatic heavier/lighter spring candidate. At 6'3, 230lbs, there was no way my YZ250X was ever going to be right. That being said, fork springs and a rear spring later and this is all I would do to this suspension. Rides like a dream.
I’m in the same boat as you, just a bit taller. New springs for the YZ to set sag, but left the valving alone. Great suspension from factory!
yamaha have really nailed it with that kayaba SSS setup. our local suspension tuners have a $30,000 dyno machine to fine tune everything and they often use the KYB SSS as their baseline.
Sorry for spamming but you are by far the best advice giver on youtube. Steering dampeners. Yah or nah? They're expensive but i've hit a crapload of speed wobbles, especially when you're in 6th gear (kdx) and flat out... some brown underpants type situations. Could it perhaps be my riding style or would a dampener assist? I usually power out of the wobble because i've noticed more power = safer outcomes. I'm not usually flat out but often enough where i won't have enough time to react or won't see a dip that sidelines me and gives us a tankslapper.
glad you are enjoying the vids. 😊 riding technique? i don't know, we never ride fast. i do hear that powering out is the motocross style though. i'd suggest having a look at the vids about steering dampers and choosing a front tyre profile... here's how to find them: ua-cam.com/video/DBTSq8OdWIc/v-deo.html
@@crosstrainingenduro Amazing, thanks as always. xxx
Deft should change your springs to you’re correct weight I just had a hefty bill to get my rear shock fixed as I did major damage from it constantly bottoming out. When a spring change would of saved me a several 100
The only time I feel like a revalve is needed is if the rider is way out of the weight spectrum (either direction) or the rider is trying to make one bike suit a different purpose, for example a Mx bike being converted to a trail bike. Almost every really fast guy I know rides stock suspension. Fitness, hours on the bike and skill are 10x more important than anything you can bolt on to your bike. My riding has improved substantially since I just started riding more. Over 200 hrs in the last 1.5 years for me. Was well under 100 hrs a year before, and several years where I hardly rode at all. I’m almost a decent rider now lol
Top tip: switching to olive oil in the forks and avocado oil in the shock is guaranteed to reduce lap times by 33.33333 (repeating, of course) percent. Extra virgin olive oil works best.
especially olive oil for italian bikes
The engine oil infused with Graham Jarvis's bodily fluids, is that synthetic??
it depends on what graham ate the previous day
So true, set your race sag and go ride.. However myself at 260lbs, need the springs.
thank you very much, very interesting ! I have a big question, essential question for extreme enduro : what do you recommend as settings ? will you make a specal vid on that topic please ? is it enough to "fully open" the compression and the rebound of a new recent bike ? Because, seeing G. Jarvis moving his bike without engine using the rebound effect, other guys doing big "dobble blop" using the same effect, is it necessary to have "super smooth" suspensions with a very smooth comp ?... AND, if yes, how do you ride thhen fast in 4th or 5th gear on some sections, or jump in 1st gear 1,5 m high steps with "extreme enduro set-up" ? I am so curious !! You are the only one I would listen the advise of !!! When I listen to J. Walker saying on many vids "my bike is pretty much out of the box" I am so laughing. To lie so much should be taxed !! Thanks so much for your excellent work and analysis !
i'd say my recommendations would be the same as the ones tim coleman gave in this video. 😊
I ride a DR650, so yes, my suspension needed an upgrade. Fortunately, I've already done it. When I got mine upgraded, I learned I had a blown nitrogen bladder around back. Talk about pogoing!!! I'm tickled that I got mine done, and I don't think anyone would argue that it didn't need it. Now I can climb trees, jump mountains, wheelie through rivers and forage through the deepest snow. NOT!
yes the DR650 is absolutely a candidate for suspension work unless you are light and just cruise around gently all the time! and even then the dual rate springs in the front have WAY too much soft rate spring compared to hard rate. who knows what the engineers were thinking.
I used to think the suspension on my 2006 crf 450 was great even in the trails. Finally bought a new bike (2017 fx450) Unbelievable difference in the rough trails. I have never felt so much traction in the nasty stuff. The 18 inch rear wheel is a lot of it but the suspension is way more forgiving than the motocross bike was, haven't adjusted it from stock. 6 psi in the rear with the tubliss was the topper.
I just bought a nice 2003 KTM 450 EXC. Previous owner was 180 pounds and was able to get away with only adjustments. I'm about 90 pounds heavier so I think I need a revalve and new springs lol! I am losing weight though!
I weigh 8 stone, my bike is 35 years old, the preload adjuster is seized on the shock. It /might/ be time to upgrade.
Good reminders Barry. I’ve been on the receiving end of bad suspension (drz400) and it becoming unsafe as my skill level increased. Switching to a 200exc was a night and day difference. However, as I start to look for a new bike I keep getting put off on certain bikes because I’m told the suspension is crappy. The more modern bikes I get seat time on the more I’m coming to think that these people are blaming the bike instead of themselves and their lack of riding skills. I don’t want to be part of that problem. It’s time for me to get over my fear of messing with the clickers and setting on my suspension and start learning to get the most out of what I have.
i agree nick, that DRZ suspension might be okay for easy dual sport riding but it can get you into trouble once you start pushing it! i'm very skeptical of all forum opinions unless i've come to trust someone's opinion (i often say viewers should be skeptical of my opinions too lol). the classic was a guy on a popular forum who would give extremely detailed opinions about various knobbies. he sounded like a pro level rider and then one day i actually rode with him and he was only just above novice level. but he had learned to talk the talk... i am probably in the same category. 😂
I listened to Jimmy Lewis podcast and he suggested that non-professional riders after sag and making sure your in the ballpark for weight, turn the clickers (one at a time of course) to the extremes to feel the difference then start pulling them back to see what you like. Mr Lewis said little changes may not be noticed by most people so try the extremes so you know what your suspension can do. After one quick ride I understand what I don't like and that as long as we are some place near my " ideal set up" it doesn't effect me much and it was FREE and easy, but I suck at riding so the cost benefit is easy.
our local suspension crew offer the same advice to guys who they feel don't really need suspension tuning. except they say alter the clickers by two or three clicks at a time, they reckon one click makes so little difference even expert riders won't pick the difference.
after years of riding motocross bikes off-road with no suspension changes, then hopping on a modern ktm exc 300 for a day in the woods I could not believe how much better the enduro-specific suspension was. it was like magic.
It can be bone shaking, can't it? 😂 Our KTM SX250 project bike was very harsh until the suspension guys revalved it for enduro style riding.
So, yea... I have a DRZ400, what should I change? rearshock and invert front forks/suspetion? any brand, size recommendations? thanks!
Someone who owns a DRZ might chime in on this one. But we can't really comment. As per our pinned first comment:
We are happy to put general tips and opinions in vids but it's pointless asking us about your personal situation. Why? Because at the very least we would need to know:
- your weight and height
- how much does all your riding gear weigh
- riding experience and style of riding
- types of terrain you are riding in
- model of bike and any existing suspension mods
- when was the suspension last serviced
- have you set the sag correctly yet
- have you played with the clickers yet
- choice of knobbies
- star sign
- size of your gonads.
And even then we wouldn't trust your answers and would need to actually go riding with you to gauge these things. And then our opinion would be next to useless anyway because we are only mid-level riders who barely know how to brush our teeth, let alone tune suspension. 😂
I went for a tougher springs after 20mth and eventhough I am 105kg with all the gear. I still got 85-95kg springs, which are totaly fine for me, that was a big step up. The problem is the tougher springs you get, the more problem you will have with the rebound, because the force of the spring is bigger when comming back up and the stock valves may not be able to handle this force!
And after 110mth I have decided to go for the new Showa cartridge, because WP Xplor is really good at the slow stuff, but once you go faster, it is totaly unreliable, sometimes I really dont know what to expect from the fork. I even tried riding over the same obstacles over and over again and sometimes the fork sends you flying where you really dont wanna go. I am not saying it is not the rider, but I would like to try something new to be sure :).
interesting, that was the common issue reported with the 4CS forks. it is strange after all these years that WP can't stay with one design, really nail it, then use that permanently. is it just to keep their design team employed? yamaha showed it's possible with the KYB SSS....
@@crosstrainingenduro There is a really good and informative video from Kreft moto that shows, that WP really simplified the forks (to save money of course), but unfortunately their compresion valve does not work that well, and the clickers do close to nothing. So even compared to 4CS, the Xplor is even worse. Some companies like Dal Soggio make kits to fix the valve problem. But I have not tried any of these.
our local suspension tuners put the 4CS forks on the dyno and spotted the problems immediately. then they tore the forks down and realised the design wasn't finished properly by WP. apparently they just drilled a hole at some key point then they worked really well. some mob on thumpertalk discuss this too, maybe it's kreft?
Generally for Enduro riding like tight track forest rocks roots mud sand is suspension generally set up soft in the middle or harder ?
Probably a bit softer? But I don't really know. I always leave my bikes stock... except for the Beta Xtrainer as it was too soft and bouncy for my weight.
Honestly, don't underestimate the placebo effect of plastering Öhlins stickers all your old shitter, works a treat. As does writing _Jarvis 1_ in texta on your jersey.
😍 no doubt you've thoroughly proven this through peer reviewed longitudinal studies with double blind groups too, bill. well done!
@@crosstrainingenduro Yep. Verified by the International Homeopathy Anecdotal Confirmation Bias Institute, no less.
😎
Improving your technique is the best answer for results, but if you are looking to spend money on your bike then suspension is number 1. The correct spring rate for your weight is the best improvement to start with.
I know this is a year old but just wanna thank your for your quality videos and all the laughs . I bet my wife wishes I could pay attention to her like I do your videos 😂
Cheers, Jon! I do occasionally hear that some wives hate having to listen to the Aussie drawl in the background lol.
Thought I needed to have the forks on my TE310R revalved. Nope. Huge stiction from the factory. Greased the fork seals and improved my suspension and riding with 5 minutes of "suspension tuning"
Are the 2017 xcw 300 suspension any good, i run srandard setting clicks but have heavier springs
Not sure if the US suspension is different. It was certainly good on our EXC models.
I'd have to agree, you will find that the stock suspension on modern bikes is superb. I bought a KTM freeride 250R and the previous Rider had totally wrecked the suspension by fitting different springs and God knows what. I had a suspension guy look at it and change the springs back to normal and it was absolutely perfect. I have recently bought the electric freeride KTM and the suspension on that just completely blows me away. I can pin it over the worst ruts and bad ground and the thing just floats over everything and rides straight. It's really unbelievable. As you said in the video, the bike's ability ways surpasses my own.
My brother and I were just talking about the electric Freeride yesterday, Justin? KTM was promoting them like mad then suddenly went all quiet and production stopped. Any idea what happened?
I'll have to look around and see if they'll be available in Australia. I hope they have some breakthroughs in the weight, the current model is still around 111kg which is similar to say a 350XCF-W with a full tank of fuel.
got a new set on my xtrainer after 2 years ,and it feel way better on jumps and high speed bumpy tracks
Yep, the Xtrainer is a bike where I think most of us will need some upgrades!
That’s crazy with the pros not touching things. I heard some of them get the A-kit suspension on their bikes whether they ask for it or not. I would guess they’d have similar lap times either way
that's only three riders we've spoken to. on the other hand, chris birch has about $6000 worth of ohlins suspension he just transferred from bike to bike when he was in the top three of hard enduro. i'm sure plenty of pro riders (especially outside of hard enduro) do lots of suspension mods but the fact remains quite a lot don't.
I think that suspension mods are quite similar to changes in gearing, power maps, etc. If there is a problem that is getting in a way of your riding, or maybe that manifest at a track you ride often, then you'd know exactly what you want to change and if you can afford it, you should. But just going to the shop and telling them "tune my bike" is a waste of money.
Sorry, spending 3K on suspension is so amazing It’s cheating. The DLC coating makes a huge difference. Maybe not for hard enduro but for desert whoops and 3rd gear single track the advantage is significant. I’m 60+ and need any help I can get but sometimes I feel bad when the 30 year olds are asking for a break when I’m good to go. i don’t let on that if I were riding on their bikes I’d be asking for a stretcher not a break.
Kelly Phillipps True
I agree. I'm 55 and been racing for 25 years
@@Bryan-Hensley For Enduro riding in general forests rocks ruts roots send it suspension generally set up hard or soft or intermediate
The stock suspension is more than adequate for your average ape rider. Unless your a professional MX racer, don't waste your money on "trick" suspension set-ups.
Yeah the suspension has a range it’s ok within based on speed and weight. But it’s beautiful when it’s spot on buttery smooth over bumps and still takes the biggest of hits without unwanted super mans.
Finally a video about the suspension revalving nonsense. Glad we have it documented now. Thanks Barry 👊🏽✊🏽👊🏽✊🏽👊🏽✊🏽
cheers, oli. i know it can make a big difference in some situations e.g. a bike with crap suspension, or you are pretty heavy or a very fast rider etc. but i'm concerned that riders relatively new to dirt riding will automatically assume they MUST get a revalve to improve their riding dramatically!
I was never really happy with the Sachs OC forks. I never got around to revalving it.. just a respringing.. I just always thought they could have / should have been better in my rocky terrain
Yep, the old DRZ400E definitely required the $1100 spring & valving upgrade and was definitely getting dangerous when pushing the stock suspension. Bless the old doctor
Yep, the old DR650 and DRZ400 need work the moment you want to push them along a bit! It's a pity Suzuki doesn't at least do some very basic mods which would cost them nothing... use higher weight oils, stiffer springs, and ditch the stupid dual rate fork springs they put in the DR.
Reformed motocrosser here, so take what I'm saying and promptly disregard it. I would. At any rate, when you're smashing tracks at silly speeds with such wildly variable terrain inputs, suspension pretty quickly becomes a pretty critical component to what you're doing in terms of both speed and safety.
A lot of racers, at least the ones I'm still in touch with, put a lot of stock in getting "built" suspension. That said: I really think you're dead on right when you are saying that modern suspension is really good off the showroom floor.
I'm running a '19 RR Race, and all I've done to the suspension is clickers and set sag...but that took me a good 40 hours to bother getting around to. I might go in for some stiffer fork springs, but that's just a personal preference for me.
a good point, aztec. i'm kind of assuming that anyone who really knows their stuff doesn't need to watch this vid. and of course this channel is geared more toward guys doing slow gnarly riding, i doubt motocrossers will be watching much! this vid is more for guys fairly new to dirt riding who can be easily convinced they MUST get their suspension done to tap into massive performance gains. 😊
@@crosstrainingenduro 100% agree! I was just (badly) pontificating on some of the root causes of this behavior. You raise some points that I have been trying to put my finger on for a while and highlight them.
I just see a common thread with a lot of the older moto guys crossing into the trail systems being the poster boys for dropping a pile of money into their suspension.
It's a consistent behavior, and I've had long talks with newer guys trying to dissuade them from drinking the "spend all your money on suspension upgrades" fruit flavored beverage.
I appreciate the content you're putting out! And thanks a ton for responding! I feel special now! (I know you respond to a lot of comments, but I've been lurking for a while now and only now had something to contribute to the conversation)
Brilliant, and so true. Thanks for the reminder!
I need it up’d for my 115kg frame without kit 😂😂 heavier springs and 5ml of oil in the front and my Husky was outstanding 🤘🏻
My new 2019 Honda CRF450L is being plauged by "Must have" mods. I've put hand guards, a new seat and tires, once the original ones wore out. Oh, I did put a heavier spring on the shock. The sag couldn't be set, properly with the stock spring. Others insist it is unrideable without a new ECU, exhaust system, springs and revalve front and rear! A couple of guys are at the $30,000.00 mark, for mods. I guess it depends on your last bike. Mine was a 1990 Yamaha DT200R. This bike is a revelation. But, most people want something better than their last motorcycle.
it's always fun putting stuff on a new bike but yeah some guys go totally crazy... and of course you don't get too much of it back on resale. 🤔
You Joke, but that Billet cap works!!!
I just noticed that they guy riding the beta was at sanders apple orchard, I used to live across the road from that place and used to race in the MCRCV club. Awesome 👍 and how the hell did that bloke just 180 pop over those logs
180 over logs? Which part of the vid? It might be our pivot turn over logs technique. ua-cam.com/video/DlWrRnT36hc/v-deo.html
Engine oil infused w Graham Jarvis body fluids! Please send me the link I cannot find on RMATV or Partzilla.
he doesn't give these up willingly. next time we kidnap him i'll keep you posted...
I literally just shipped my wr250r suspension off to get revalved, after riding my yz250 more I noticed the wrr lacked confidence/had extremly dangerous pogo on the rear
if you like to ride the WR aggressively and/or you are heavier than the usual rider it's a good idea!
I have a ktm 300 with 4cs forks and they are terrible, anything on the pipe, they jump and lose traction.
Who knows what KTM were thinking when they designed those forks.
I'm gonna ne need a link for that oil infused with Jarvis body fluid, mate.
as per a previous comment it might take a while. first we have to catch jarvis then pin him down to extract fluids... and he's pretty fast even now he's over 40. 🤔
K tech Orvs kit makes a massive difference. Especially on a 450... Humongous differences infact
6foot 2” 250lbs..... uprated my springs on my Drz400e recently, made a difference hell yes, made me any faster who cares, maybe silly but 7 years of “off road” riding who cares if it’s the bike or me. I just enjoy the bike more these days
I can’t tell the difference between my bikes suspensions unless I get going fast like really fast
"It's 80% the rider and only 20% the bike...." The springs are often on the weaker side for my 118 kilos + gear so a wee bit stiffer springs helps a little but the stock springs for a 70kg rider works too.
And just as I posted my comment the 80-20 rule appeared on the screen:-)
In the words of Anders Eriksson when I attended one of his classes, "ut me arslet!" " " ass out!"
Not rode in about 7 years and my first bike is going to be the SSR 300s
So I Shouldn't opt for the Slavins Racing $20,000 XCW 300? Its not gonna make me lose 30 lbs and ride
like Graham Jarvis?
I agree Work with what you got, Spring a Shock for your weight, Run good low tire pressure,
Stand Up, Then possibly play with your clickers
if it turns your crank, that $20,000 bike might be just the ticket lol. some guys do spend crazy amounts on their bikes and do get lasting enjoyment from being the king of bling. but my concern is when guys can't really afford to spend heaps, but are convinced by others they must throw buckets of cash at their suspension... and in some cases there's only marginal improvement and the poor bastard has to convince himself it was worth it. sadly it happens pretty often in so many respects.
Eying the new WP Cone Valves I have sitting next to my bike, oof 😅🤣
I was like... dang, I just need to get good... but then the motocross conversion came up and was relieved. I am not sure with my skill level any amount of suspension work would make me any faster or better on my kx250f.
My 2020 Beta 300rr has suspension that’s 100 time better than I am a rider. I haven’t even adjusted a clicker or set the sag. I am 172 lbs without gear so I don’t believe I need to but I should check the sag I suppose.
I changed to heavier springs on mine, but then again I have 40 lbs on you. World of difference for me.
Matt Bear What were you experiencing with the stock suspension? Bottoming out?
@@chris3407 yup, bottoming, and kicking up off of small rocks. Springs made a huge difference, and put my ride height under weight up about 2", to where it fits me better.
Love your no BS vids !!
So wait a minute , are you saying that all the used graham Jarvis condom cathiders I bought and have been putting in my bikes oil and gas don’t make me a better rider??? Ah nuts . Should I still put some in my morning coffee?
anything that has been infused with graham's sweat is going to work, no doubt about it. however you don't take those orally, for best results you need rectal insertion.
Totally agree
Shit at 6.27 you called me out. Damn Your Good
i hear theirs a new dirt bike add on
its a bell you put on your handle bars and it goes BLING BLING
🤣
So true. But then you aren't trying to sell unnecessary stuff to (gullible) people and make money for the middle men!
Same applies to so many other consumer goods.
Your opinion is so refreshing!
Cheers, Paul. It's already an expensive sport for a lot of guys then all these magazines and vids are telling us we won't ride well until we spend huge amounts of money on bling... 😒
OH where can I order that oil infused with the body fluids of Graham Jarvis. ?
i'm selling it for $3000 a bottle. i'm accessing the required fluids without graham's consent and the fines and legal bills are mounting. 🤔
@@crosstrainingenduro Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Too steep for me, I'll just keep pushing on.
To be fair, those guys are riding new factory euro bikes with out of the box legit suspension. I did a SSS swap off of a 2011 yz450F on my 00 yz250 and had it built for me. Wayyyyyy better. Also the Rekluse auto, shinko cheater and rear hand brake make me seem better than I am, lol.
I have a wr250r. That rear shock needs to be revalved badly. The rest is fine. But thT donkey kicking rear sucks.
Not if you have a Yamaha YZ/WR250/450. The Kayaba SSS suspension is bloody excellent...
yep, our local suspension guys have a $30,000 dyno and they use the kayaba SSS charts as their ideal baseline. KTM would save themselves a lot of trouble if they ditched their WP brand and just opted for kayaba!
@@crosstrainingenduro Be nice if they ditched that fuckin orange too haha
😂