I appreciate all the constructive feedback on what I said about XC2's darkest hour scene, as well as offering a new perspective on the characterization there. Expect a video re-analyzing the Xenoblade 2 scene at some point in the next few months!
I think that it's also that, in a way, Chapter 5 was Noah's Darkest Hour, but the beginning of Chapter 6 is actually N's Darkest Hour, just when the big Switch-eroo™ happens. And some of the composition is _chef's kiss_
This scene got me so bad, the whole time I was sitting in my chair saying they are not doing this and then when the reveal that M and Mio had switched I was happy but N's Reaction to it all also got me, even if I hated him for what he had done, I just love this series a lot
To add to this: I also think, that no JRPG could've killed a main party member like Mio off. It would be impossible gameplay wise to continue without her. But the scene works even though you know, she can't die, because during the whole segment you think just like the characters, that there must be a way to get out. Right until you see the actual execution and there you are helpless and still not knowing who will stand in for Mio after that.
Nope, the scene still doesn't work for me. When she turned into mots, I just sat there wondering how they gonna bring her back because she is the literal other half of the Ouroboros gameplay wise. Personally, I only like the fakeout because N's reaction is hilarious.
At the very end of chapter 5, we think Noah is also killed off. I took a break after that and wondered if that's how they made it work. To kill both parts of the Ouroboros off. But that would have left only two pairs. Whether and how they'd fill in that hole I couldn't imagine. But it would have made some sense storytelling wise after copping out of Lanz's and Sena's death shortly beforehand, to now actually have two main protagonists killed for real. The sense of relieve, only to shock you with an even bigger tragedy right afterwards, this time for real.
Yeah, right up until the reveal, I was wondering “How the hell are they going to do this, exactly”, because I knew from a gameplay and game design standpoint it wouldn’t really make sense to kill off any of the main Ouroboros crew for real…And yet, it still worked because, as you said, it makes you think like the characters, that there must be a way out of this. All of this(Plus N’s smug asshole attitude prior to the reveal) makes the payoff of M’s switcheroo and subsequent boss fight against N(Where you also get access to the best Arts in the game) *VERY* satisfying and cathartic. And Harry McEntire’s epic breakdown as N is just the cherry on top of the catharsis sundae.
I dunno, seems a little overconfident to think they couldn’t possibly kill off a main character. Jrpgs have done that for a long time. I think what makes it seem so unlikely in this game is that he hadn’t pulled lucky 7 yet though. If we knew Noah was going to get a huge buff like that, it could be feasible that theyd take a major party member to make the player feel the absence of her but still have a way to compensate for her being gone
@@SmolharuharuI only have a little experience with playable characters in JRPGs dying, but every time I’ve seen it, there’s certain aspects of the character or the game design that make it more feasible. Spoilers ahead, obviously; and also going overboard on analysis. In XC2, we had Vandham. He was notably different from the rest of the party. Much older, and wiser. He didn’t have nearly as much potential for character development as the other characters. The big tell for anyone unable to close their eyes to the meta aspect, his inability to participate in the gacha mechanics, with nothing especially unique to replace it with like Tora has. In the story, he has a line about Roc being the only blade he’s ever needed, but that wasn’t nearly enough justification for me to dismiss the red flags. In XC1, I’m counting Fiora for the purposes of this discussion. She was gone a really long time, and was a very different person when finally reunited with her friends, after all. At the start of the game, you’re a small group of 3, and with so few levels, it’s easy to justify that each of them has so few arts. But if you do a lot of side-quests, you might notice that Reyn and Shulk keep learning more arts, while Fiora stagnates with just 4. By level 7, Reyn has 6 arts. Shulk is a bit slower to learn arts, but the narrative focus on him in-game, in trailers, and in Smash Bros all makes sure you’re well aware he’ll be sticking around for a while. That said, Shulk learns his fourth art at level 5, while Fiora has to wait until level 8. Shulk then learns his fifth at level 10, and sixth at level 14. I recently watched a blind playthrough where he had the party at level 13 before Fiora left to retrieve the mobile artillery. If you’re in that situation, and thinking about the arts, it’s a fairly subtle red flag that her gameplay stops developing while Shulk and Reyn are already past her. Another aspect that one might realize, Shulk and Fiora are about 70% in the same combat role. Can’t take a hit, but dish out damage quickly, while also applying debuffs and break. Fiora’s Daze art, while Shulk is still hours from learning his, carries the whole weight of this red flag from being obvious, to being fairly subtle. These red flags don’t make me worried on their own, like Vandham did; but then when the game shows a vision of Fiora dying, and I think of how that would affect the game logistically? I realize that in combat, she’s only half a character, and most of that character is the exact same niche as Shulk. I realize that she’s mechanically expendable, as it only takes a daze art for Shulk to do everything she can do. I realize that it’s been ~5 levels since her last art learned. I realize that Shulk and Reyn could both buy art books, but there were none for Fiora. All these realizations culminate in the knowledge that they really did set her up to die here, even if she gets brought back later. Contrast those against Mio, who we’ve had for the entire game, with full access to all the game mechanics, costumes, classes, and strong character interaction in several optional hero quests. With all of those gameplay systems, and feeling like we were still far from the end of the game, I felt certain they couldn’t kill her off without a quick replacement, anyway. From everything I knew so far, it seemed plausible to me that she could MAYBE be replaced by M or the Agnian Queen joining the party in her place. Maybe even her next life could be aged-up to 19 instead of 10; I mean why not if they can be instantly aged-up to 10 anyway? All of those seemed technically plausible to me, but not likely. Whatever it was they decided to do, any replacement NEEDED to be able to somehow retain Mio’s class mastery. That system is too important and too time-consuming to make you start over from the ground floor with a new character. XC3’s darkest hour is one of my favourite parts of ANY story, but I couldn’t help doubting the stakes, for all of these reasons.
Small nitpick, and I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Xeno 2's darkest hour happened not because Rex and his sword lost the glowing box to some anime bad guys in a whale's head, but rather in a turtle's ass
I replayed XC3 to try and 100% the game and that sequence still got me. Keep in mind it was my 3rd time reaching that point myself and 5th or 6th time seeing it as a whole, having watched several other people play the game. And a thing that goes unmentioned by too many people is the immediate aftermath of Mio's execution. Specifically, im referring to the dichotomy of N and Noah before and after the execution itself takes place. N relishes in the despair and hopelessness the cast feels, delighting in their anguish prior to the big reveal that it was in fact M who left the mortal coil. The moment N and Noah make this realization, N snaps, yet Noah still tries to reason with his sinister doppelganger despite everything hes been through.
I am going to defend Rex's darkest hour (I do think the writing in 3 is better across the board though, and you've hit the nail on the head with Xenoblade 2 having a tell don'tshow problem). The cause of the darkest hour isn't just that Pyra and Mythra have been taken, it's also because he's learnt that they've basically put all of their energy into protecting him. They pass out as soon as they hand themselves over to Jin. It's the realisation that he's been hurting the people he cares about that brings him to his lowest moment, which is in character.
I agree that Xenoblade 2's darkest hour felt a bit iffy and executed in a janky way. Like, I get the purpose it has, but it didn't emotionally punch me as I'd hoped. Xenoblade 3's darkest hour was just well executed and planned. Even though I was spoiled by it as well as its aftermath, I still became an emotional wreck once I reached that point.
Rex's character switch, in my opinion, was very realistic and warranted. The core of my thinking comes from the natural human reflex to pity ourselves when we fail. Rex acts in this manner, he failed to take Pyra to Elysium, he failed and he pities himself and decides to give up, something that we all tend to do when we run into a wall when trying to achieve a goal. However, Rex's defeat and decision to leave wasn't that to be taken at face value. He didn't want to give up, he wanted to see his friends reactions, to make him come back. I know a lot of us people do this, when we fail we dramatize it to the people we hold close, to make them motivate us to keep going to our goals. This scene also brings players back to Rex's origins, if they forgot. He isn't some godly being, he isn't a significant figure in Alrest, he's just a normal salvager boy trying to make a living. He's so normal, so regular. He isn't a perfect protagonist that immediately bounces back from a setback, he's just a normal guy, and this scene displays that fact in the most beautiful and again, real, way, he pities himself, says that he's just going to give up, but it's all just things that any of us would do ourselves. You said the whole scene appeared to lack finality, like what had just happened wasn't as bad as it seemed, and this is true, but entirely intentional. Immediately after this scene, the third Aegis sword is revealed, one to replace the sword just broken in the scene where Pyra surrenders herself. We can even get a hint at this when Morag motions to Zeke to not interfere and reveal that it isn't over. This lack of finality is made to give foreshadowing to the next scene, and it also serves as a symbolic reflection of Rex's friends: not willing to give up. Xenoblade 2's darkest hour, in the best way, and with terrible wording, isn't a darkest hour. It isn't as dark, as dramatic as other darkest hours, but to me, its the most real, the most reflective of real human reflexes, emotions, and reactions. It serves to further display one of Xenoblade 2's greatest attributes: the characters themselves are so real, so emotional, and just so human. This video is great. Your video is a masterpiece, but I just wanted to share what I thought of Xenoblade 2's darkest hour :)
Those are all great points! I hadn't thought of the XC2 scene in that way before, but this is definitely making me re-examine it; thank you for the new perspective!
Without Pyra/Mythra, Rex has been reduced to the level of a normal human; and one who’s only about 16 at that. He had been granted a chance to flirt with divinity, but that was taken away, leaving him with nothing to show for it. His enemy was a man who could move and react faster than the speed of light, an unbelievably unmatchable power. If Jin is capable of that, there’s truly no way anyone could EVER stand against him. That’s the kind of place I think Rex is coming from, emotionally. His gacha blades and Roc provide a counter-point, but none of them are part of the main plot canon. (Since the beginning of chapter 4, in Roc’s case)
This scene really stuck out to me much more than the other 2 games's darkest hours too, because like you said, the party is actually trying to do something and not giving up. But moreover, they're trying to do something KNOWING it's not gonna happen. Especially Noah who bloodies his knuckles trying to break those bars apart, because he just can't let Mio die this way. It was 100% Noah's strongest moment to me (and I cried like a baby because of it, lol). Though a little complaint I had, I wish we saw a little more of N after it happened. To my memory (which may not be the best, I last played the game about a bit under a year ago) I'm pretty sure you don't see N again until Origin? Would've been nice to see him slowly corrupt more and more between the end of chapter 5 and his last scene. I think it also would've made his redemption even more satisfying.
Í still think Rex scene work as well, he is a kid so it makes sense for him to hit a wall eventually he think he cannot overcome. His true power are also sorta the power to make friends and so on so his friends being the ones to pull him back is pretty good. It think it's more a question about who you are if either scene works better or worse for you.
My brain did a blue screen of death at that point. I was, like, this did not just happen. It was already 11 PM or something, but I couldn't stop at that point. I had to keep going. And that chapter ending screen... Oof. Also, there is so much to Homecoming. Like Noah's theme calling out in one desperate wail before we hear the Ouroboros theme, but incomplete, trailing off. And then, one last call from Noah, played by the bassoon, but there is no reply from Mio because Mio is gone... 😭
I don't like that much XC2 scene not because of Rex, but I think because Brighid went a bit overboard with the slap and telling Rex what Pyra said before, almost going into melodrama there. The scene would have worked better with just Nia and Poppi.
my favorite scene in XC2 is when rex has to deal with the nightmares and at the end its just a dream of him living with his two girlfriends and then he just starts sobbing, saying something like "i dont know what im doing anymore". thats when i remebered, "oh right he is just a kid". Rex is till not my favorite XC protagonist but that little scene won him a lot of points. then XC3 showed us what a fucking chad he became and i was like "THATS MY BOY". Also shulk saying "im not really feeling it" broke my heart.
Very nice analysis of a peak moment. That said as a certified Xenoblade 2 glazer I must put in my two cents. I love Rex's darkest hour because it puts a human limit on his optimism. Jin pulled a Tobias from Pokemon DP and used cheat codes (speed of light) to not only beat Rex but completely annihilate him. So far his boundless optimism has always been rewarded, even when he literally died, but this time he is faced with stakes that are impossible to even an unreasonable person, and the persona cracks. This is good writing imo because there is precedent for this. Addam was a good man but he is ultimately a weak one as he puts Pyra in a capsule to be someone else's probably in an era. Rex is literally repeating history, deciding the enomity of this Aegis nonsense is more than he can handle. In Addam's era that shit flies because everyone worships the ground he walks on, but in Rex's era his friends dont worship him. They tell him straight to his face that he's coping and needs to man up. And that makes all the difference. In a story about the power of friendship, I kind of love that the solution isnt in the protagonist's innate traits. It's the integrity and courage of the supporting cast that changes history ("they" won't let the world burn a second time). An extra beautiful touch is that after Poppi encourages him Rex shuts up. There's a shot of him gathering his resolve even *before* he finds out theres a magical macguffin that solves everything, which makes all the difference for how I respect him
@@June26A7 Don't forget colonel Square-tache. We see him getting a whole floating tank (or whatever that thing is) thrown on him in the attack in colony 9 and I think the next.time we see him is on sword valley.
Let's see... Fiora, Shulk, Rex, Niall, Malos if you played Torna first, Addam if you want to count his consciousness? Mio, Noah, Shania? If you want to count NG+, then you can add Akhos, Patroka, and Mikhail. There's also Roc, but him returning wasn't "miraculous", though Aegaeon could be considered miraculous due to the crack in his Core Crystal that may have been an animation error. You can also argue Zeke coming back after his "accidents" even if we didn't see him _die._ Be glad it was only how many characters and not how many times, otherwise we'd have to add, like, 4 each for Mio and Noah from their backstories.
I mean at least for 3 it make sense since the whole thing was about death and rebirth in this pointless Cycle Because the one with power are unwilling to move forward fearing the unknown future
I know it's usually an annoyance, but for me the fact that this cutscene is so long helps this one. You don't get a reprieve, no gameplay, no fight scenes, you're stuck there, with them, and like the characters, there's nothing you can do either.
You can’t have a permanent death in a Xenoblade game Spoilers Vandham, Sorean, Kallian, Gadolt (the second time), Egil, Dickson, Meyneth, Lorithia, Akhos, Jin, Patroka, Mikhail, Malos, Lora, Hugo, Haze and Milton: do I mean nothing to you?
No, the darkest hour in XC2 was when Rex was completely broken after realizing Elysium was a lie and he cried with his head in his hands, asking himself, "Did I go wrong somewhere?"
Also Rex not believing he can beat the guy who decimated all the party while he had the Aegis BY HIMSELF is not out of character lmao THERE IS NO WAY HE CAN POSSIBLY BEAT THE GUY WHAT IS HE GOING TO DO ??
Yeah, also the same character who effortlessly beat him basically said "Your recklessness is what caused this, you should be ashamed of yourself" so it's understandable that he would be ashamed of his recklessness. It's only until he learns about "Super anime power-up relic" that he is able to return to a semblance of his old self and can eventually develop as a character.
@@thestormwizard6447 thats not true lmao, Rex goes in once again reckless with no plan and then because the writers give him everything he need to be consistently right he wins again by being reckless and never grow out of his recklessness, the relic was never going to help in the first fucking place because we know how blades work and even if he got the sword it would have been useless, there has been 0 growth from minute 1 to the very end for Rex, every time he says he was stupid, he go in and do the same thing again like a mad man Malos said they probably wont be alive by the time he gets his powers back ? thank god he was lying lmao they were just sleepy, thanks writers, XC2 is a good game actually methinks not once in the game he thinks, even the last fucking thing he does when Pneuma sacrifice herself is rush in trying to get with her because he act before thinking and he never grow out of it LMAO
@@fikaieldjouRegarding Pyra/Mythra ‘just sleepy,’ I think it’s actually the same deal as the end of the game. Malos really did reduce them to an empty husk, but Rex was carrying their backup disc. (his half of their core Crystal) Once he reunited with them, he was finally able to build a true emotional (and probably bluetooth idk) connection with them, and through that connection restored what was lost.
@@Dash123456789Brawl that is complete cope, you know damn well the core are synched up, if it is possible for them to have a backup where they're fine, then Rex and Mythra should heal each other wounds because the other is fine
The best darkest hour with the most balloon fart follow-up afterwards. The only big flaw with this scene is knowing it doesn’t get carried over later, it’s just moved on from, impact mostly gone with the wind.
I don't like "it's a Nintendo game" or "the gameplay didn't allow for it" as excuses for Mio not permanently dying. This is only a Nintendo game in the same way Fire Emblem is a Nintendo game and people die in those games all the time. Also, the gameplay could have been changed to account for Noah not having an Ouroboros partner. It's not like protagonists having exclusive mechanics isn't something that tons of other JRPGs (including every other Xenoblade game) do. There was already an entire fake-out mechanic at the beginning of the game with the flame clock. It goes away in 10 seconds but Monolith put it in to throw us off. They were willing to go the extra mile to enhance the story there, why not here? The story and themes are so immensely undercut by Mio coming back in any capacity. The story should be priority number 1 with JRPGs, that's why we play them, that's why they affect us so deeply. The thing that Noah learns throughout the flashback scenes is that sometimes you need to keep moving forward even when you don't know what's coming next in the hope that everything will turn out alright and that trying to stay in the same place to preserve what you have will destroy you. This is what sets him apart from N. It's not very emotionally resonant (or realistic) when the very moment he makes that decision he gains everything he wanted. He needs to stick with that path for a prolonged period of time to prove that he's above N. He needs to show that despite truly not knowing how it will go, he believes it will be good, not say that he'll do that and then have everything good immediately given to him.
i mean thats the fucking point, poppy was literally telling him thats out of character for him we all act out of character in our darkest hour, it wouldnt be one otherwise
Honestly...I find XC3 to be a good game, but not nearly as fantastic as either XC1 or XC2, and that's for many reasons - gameplay, tutorials, story, characters. Since we're specifically talking about "Darkest Hour", though, I feel this is an area where 3 is once again below the first two. For one thing, 3's Hour really only takes place in cutscenes, rather than actual gameplay, and is thus rather quickly done with in comparison with losing Pyra & Mythra in XC2, or losing Shulk in XC1. Also, since 3's is relegated to cutscenes, you never get to play as a 5-person team with Noah unable to Interlink, unlike 1 and 2 where you _did_ get to play without Shulk and Pyra & Mythra, and are thus a lot weaker. The way the first two games handled it, losing a crucial party member gave the player a gameplay reason to want to get them back, due to the just-mentioned weaker party. Granted, the case with Shulk also doesn't last long, as Colony 6 is attacked (and Shulk wakes up) pretty soon after he enters his coma, but you're still forced to fight without him for a bit; the case with the Aegis in 2 is a lot more fleshed out, as rescuing her involves exploring two brand-new areas (the Spirit Crucible Elpys, and the Cliffs of Morytha), not to mention optionally exploring Tantal and/or doing Quests. Point is, the player really grows to miss having the Aegis in the party, and is thus driven to get her back as soon as possible. 3 just doesn't have this motivation whatsoever, which is quite unfortunate. And the context behind 3's Darkest Hour...the party's jailed for the rest of Mio's last month, and she's going to be killed via Homecoming. I'm sorry, but this never really got me - why the SPARK would Monolith Soft permanently kill off the female protagonist? And leave Noah permanently unable to Interlink, wasting all his SP? Yeah, no, Mio was never gonna actually die. Not to mention MS did the whole "female protag is murdered by antagonist - oh whoops she's not actually dead" thing before, *twice* - with Fiora in 1, and with the Aegis in 2. It's not that surprising anymore. Hugo's death only works, gameplay-wise, because it happens in the ending cutscene of Torna: The Golden Country, and Vandham's works because he was never really a proper party member (he couldn't awaken new Blades, couldn't unlock Roc's Affinity Chart - two major red flags. Tora also can't awaken Blades, but he's got proper story justification and gets Poppi QT in the very next chapter). Mio's death...just wouldn't work in any way, unless it was akin to Hugo's death or Pneuma's sacrifice, that being in the ending cutscene where it doesn't impact gameplay at all. Then the idea that THE ENTIRE PARTY was supposed to be executed after her...yeah, right, no. If getting rid of Mio was unbelievable, then this mass execution of the party is just purely ludicrous. Simply put, who would we play as, hm? That group of Ouroboros candidates? As if. I'm sorry, but XC3's Darkest Hour just doesn't work for me. It doesn't make sense gameplay-wise, it doesn't affect me emotionally unlike Pyra's sacrifice and torture, it's over in a couple of cutscenes with minimal gameplay.
not quite that good, the rules around how all that happens makes it an impossibility. When Noah and M interlinked, he should have known it wasn't Mio, in fact they probably shouldn't even be able to interlink in the first place, because why would Moebius and Ouroboros be able to do it. It got me the first time, but after extensive analysis of the script and rules, all of that isn't that well crafted That along witht he fact that, well Noah couldn't even have chosen to be Moebius, making this whole thing pointless in retrospect, cheap emotional "payoffs" that aren't actually payoffs when you have more context later in the story, this is modern Xenoblade trademark lmao
I appreciate all the constructive feedback on what I said about XC2's darkest hour scene, as well as offering a new perspective on the characterization there. Expect a video re-analyzing the Xenoblade 2 scene at some point in the next few months!
I’m new. But I think the darkest hour in Xc2 was when Poppi was about to punch Rex after they took Pyra away.
I think that it's also that, in a way, Chapter 5 was Noah's Darkest Hour, but the beginning of Chapter 6 is actually N's Darkest Hour, just when the big Switch-eroo™ happens. And some of the composition is _chef's kiss_
I hated N, I really, really did, but, man, did I feel for him the moment he realised who had died. Yeesh. I still hate him.
This scene got me so bad, the whole time I was sitting in my chair saying they are not doing this and then when the reveal that M and Mio had switched I was happy but N's Reaction to it all also got me, even if I hated him for what he had done, I just love this series a lot
And Harry’s performance just brings it all together.
To add to this: I also think, that no JRPG could've killed a main party member like Mio off. It would be impossible gameplay wise to continue without her. But the scene works even though you know, she can't die, because during the whole segment you think just like the characters, that there must be a way to get out. Right until you see the actual execution and there you are helpless and still not knowing who will stand in for Mio after that.
Nope, the scene still doesn't work for me. When she turned into mots, I just sat there wondering how they gonna bring her back because she is the literal other half of the Ouroboros gameplay wise. Personally, I only like the fakeout because N's reaction is hilarious.
At the very end of chapter 5, we think Noah is also killed off. I took a break after that and wondered if that's how they made it work. To kill both parts of the Ouroboros off. But that would have left only two pairs. Whether and how they'd fill in that hole I couldn't imagine. But it would have made some sense storytelling wise after copping out of Lanz's and Sena's death shortly beforehand, to now actually have two main protagonists killed for real. The sense of relieve, only to shock you with an even bigger tragedy right afterwards, this time for real.
Yeah, right up until the reveal, I was wondering “How the hell are they going to do this, exactly”, because I knew from a gameplay and game design standpoint it wouldn’t really make sense to kill off any of the main Ouroboros crew for real…And yet, it still worked because, as you said, it makes you think like the characters, that there must be a way out of this. All of this(Plus N’s smug asshole attitude prior to the reveal) makes the payoff of M’s switcheroo and subsequent boss fight against N(Where you also get access to the best Arts in the game) *VERY* satisfying and cathartic. And Harry McEntire’s epic breakdown as N is just the cherry on top of the catharsis sundae.
I dunno, seems a little overconfident to think they couldn’t possibly kill off a main character. Jrpgs have done that for a long time. I think what makes it seem so unlikely in this game is that he hadn’t pulled lucky 7 yet though. If we knew Noah was going to get a huge buff like that, it could be feasible that theyd take a major party member to make the player feel the absence of her but still have a way to compensate for her being gone
@@SmolharuharuI only have a little experience with playable characters in JRPGs dying, but every time I’ve seen it, there’s certain aspects of the character or the game design that make it more feasible.
Spoilers ahead, obviously; and also going overboard on analysis.
In XC2, we had Vandham. He was notably different from the rest of the party. Much older, and wiser. He didn’t have nearly as much potential for character development as the other characters. The big tell for anyone unable to close their eyes to the meta aspect, his inability to participate in the gacha mechanics, with nothing especially unique to replace it with like Tora has. In the story, he has a line about Roc being the only blade he’s ever needed, but that wasn’t nearly enough justification for me to dismiss the red flags.
In XC1, I’m counting Fiora for the purposes of this discussion. She was gone a really long time, and was a very different person when finally reunited with her friends, after all.
At the start of the game, you’re a small group of 3, and with so few levels, it’s easy to justify that each of them has so few arts. But if you do a lot of side-quests, you might notice that Reyn and Shulk keep learning more arts, while Fiora stagnates with just 4. By level 7, Reyn has 6 arts. Shulk is a bit slower to learn arts, but the narrative focus on him in-game, in trailers, and in Smash Bros all makes sure you’re well aware he’ll be sticking around for a while. That said, Shulk learns his fourth art at level 5, while Fiora has to wait until level 8. Shulk then learns his fifth at level 10, and sixth at level 14. I recently watched a blind playthrough where he had the party at level 13 before Fiora left to retrieve the mobile artillery. If you’re in that situation, and thinking about the arts, it’s a fairly subtle red flag that her gameplay stops developing while Shulk and Reyn are already past her. Another aspect that one might realize, Shulk and Fiora are about 70% in the same combat role. Can’t take a hit, but dish out damage quickly, while also applying debuffs and break. Fiora’s Daze art, while Shulk is still hours from learning his, carries the whole weight of this red flag from being obvious, to being fairly subtle.
These red flags don’t make me worried on their own, like Vandham did; but then when the game shows a vision of Fiora dying, and I think of how that would affect the game logistically? I realize that in combat, she’s only half a character, and most of that character is the exact same niche as Shulk. I realize that she’s mechanically expendable, as it only takes a daze art for Shulk to do everything she can do. I realize that it’s been ~5 levels since her last art learned. I realize that Shulk and Reyn could both buy art books, but there were none for Fiora. All these realizations culminate in the knowledge that they really did set her up to die here, even if she gets brought back later.
Contrast those against Mio, who we’ve had for the entire game, with full access to all the game mechanics, costumes, classes, and strong character interaction in several optional hero quests. With all of those gameplay systems, and feeling like we were still far from the end of the game, I felt certain they couldn’t kill her off without a quick replacement, anyway.
From everything I knew so far, it seemed plausible to me that she could MAYBE be replaced by M or the Agnian Queen joining the party in her place. Maybe even her next life could be aged-up to 19 instead of 10; I mean why not if they can be instantly aged-up to 10 anyway? All of those seemed technically plausible to me, but not likely. Whatever it was they decided to do, any replacement NEEDED to be able to somehow retain Mio’s class mastery. That system is too important and too time-consuming to make you start over from the ground floor with a new character.
XC3’s darkest hour is one of my favourite parts of ANY story, but I couldn’t help doubting the stakes, for all of these reasons.
Small nitpick, and I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Xeno 2's darkest hour happened not because Rex and his sword lost the glowing box to some anime bad guys in a whale's head, but rather in a turtle's ass
Oh of course! How could I be so foolish
I replayed XC3 to try and 100% the game and that sequence still got me. Keep in mind it was my 3rd time reaching that point myself and 5th or 6th time seeing it as a whole, having watched several other people play the game. And a thing that goes unmentioned by too many people is the immediate aftermath of Mio's execution. Specifically, im referring to the dichotomy of N and Noah before and after the execution itself takes place. N relishes in the despair and hopelessness the cast feels, delighting in their anguish prior to the big reveal that it was in fact M who left the mortal coil. The moment N and Noah make this realization, N snaps, yet Noah still tries to reason with his sinister doppelganger despite everything hes been through.
I am going to defend Rex's darkest hour (I do think the writing in 3 is better across the board though, and you've hit the nail on the head with Xenoblade 2 having a tell don'tshow problem). The cause of the darkest hour isn't just that Pyra and Mythra have been taken, it's also because he's learnt that they've basically put all of their energy into protecting him. They pass out as soon as they hand themselves over to Jin. It's the realisation that he's been hurting the people he cares about that brings him to his lowest moment, which is in character.
I agree that Xenoblade 2's darkest hour felt a bit iffy and executed in a janky way. Like, I get the purpose it has, but it didn't emotionally punch me as I'd hoped. Xenoblade 3's darkest hour was just well executed and planned. Even though I was spoiled by it as well as its aftermath, I still became an emotional wreck once I reached that point.
Rex's character switch, in my opinion, was very realistic and warranted. The core of my thinking comes from the natural human reflex to pity ourselves when we fail. Rex acts in this manner, he failed to take Pyra to Elysium, he failed and he pities himself and decides to give up, something that we all tend to do when we run into a wall when trying to achieve a goal.
However, Rex's defeat and decision to leave wasn't that to be taken at face value. He didn't want to give up, he wanted to see his friends reactions, to make him come back. I know a lot of us people do this, when we fail we dramatize it to the people we hold close, to make them motivate us to keep going to our goals.
This scene also brings players back to Rex's origins, if they forgot. He isn't some godly being, he isn't a significant figure in Alrest, he's just a normal salvager boy trying to make a living. He's so normal, so regular. He isn't a perfect protagonist that immediately bounces back from a setback, he's just a normal guy, and this scene displays that fact in the most beautiful and again, real, way, he pities himself, says that he's just going to give up, but it's all just things that any of us would do ourselves.
You said the whole scene appeared to lack finality, like what had just happened wasn't as bad as it seemed, and this is true, but entirely intentional. Immediately after this scene, the third Aegis sword is revealed, one to replace the sword just broken in the scene where Pyra surrenders herself. We can even get a hint at this when Morag motions to Zeke to not interfere and reveal that it isn't over. This lack of finality is made to give foreshadowing to the next scene, and it also serves as a symbolic reflection of Rex's friends: not willing to give up.
Xenoblade 2's darkest hour, in the best way, and with terrible wording, isn't a darkest hour. It isn't as dark, as dramatic as other darkest hours, but to me, its the most real, the most reflective of real human reflexes, emotions, and reactions. It serves to further display one of Xenoblade 2's greatest attributes: the characters themselves are so real, so emotional, and just so human.
This video is great. Your video is a masterpiece, but I just wanted to share what I thought of Xenoblade 2's darkest hour :)
Those are all great points! I hadn't thought of the XC2 scene in that way before, but this is definitely making me re-examine it; thank you for the new perspective!
Without Pyra/Mythra, Rex has been reduced to the level of a normal human; and one who’s only about 16 at that. He had been granted a chance to flirt with divinity, but that was taken away, leaving him with nothing to show for it. His enemy was a man who could move and react faster than the speed of light, an unbelievably unmatchable power. If Jin is capable of that, there’s truly no way anyone could EVER stand against him.
That’s the kind of place I think Rex is coming from, emotionally.
His gacha blades and Roc provide a counter-point, but none of them are part of the main plot canon. (Since the beginning of chapter 4, in Roc’s case)
Yes, I played several of these and XC3's darkest hour is indeed perfect.
This scene really stuck out to me much more than the other 2 games's darkest hours too, because like you said, the party is actually trying to do something and not giving up. But moreover, they're trying to do something KNOWING it's not gonna happen. Especially Noah who bloodies his knuckles trying to break those bars apart, because he just can't let Mio die this way. It was 100% Noah's strongest moment to me (and I cried like a baby because of it, lol).
Though a little complaint I had, I wish we saw a little more of N after it happened. To my memory (which may not be the best, I last played the game about a bit under a year ago) I'm pretty sure you don't see N again until Origin? Would've been nice to see him slowly corrupt more and more between the end of chapter 5 and his last scene. I think it also would've made his redemption even more satisfying.
Í still think Rex scene work as well, he is a kid so it makes sense for him to hit a wall eventually he think he cannot overcome.
His true power are also sorta the power to make friends and so on so his friends being the ones to pull him back is pretty good.
It think it's more a question about who you are if either scene works better or worse for you.
My brain did a blue screen of death at that point. I was, like, this did not just happen. It was already 11 PM or something, but I couldn't stop at that point. I had to keep going. And that chapter ending screen... Oof. Also, there is so much to Homecoming. Like Noah's theme calling out in one desperate wail before we hear the Ouroboros theme, but incomplete, trailing off. And then, one last call from Noah, played by the bassoon, but there is no reply from Mio because Mio is gone... 😭
I don't like that much XC2 scene not because of Rex, but I think because Brighid went a bit overboard with the slap and telling Rex what Pyra said before, almost going into melodrama there. The scene would have worked better with just Nia and Poppi.
my favorite scene in XC2 is when rex has to deal with the nightmares and at the end its just a dream of him living with his two girlfriends and then he just starts sobbing, saying something like "i dont know what im doing anymore".
thats when i remebered, "oh right he is just a kid".
Rex is till not my favorite XC protagonist but that little scene won him a lot of points.
then XC3 showed us what a fucking chad he became and i was like "THATS MY BOY".
Also shulk saying "im not really feeling it" broke my heart.
Very nice analysis of a peak moment.
That said as a certified Xenoblade 2 glazer I must put in my two cents. I love Rex's darkest hour because it puts a human limit on his optimism. Jin pulled a Tobias from Pokemon DP and used cheat codes (speed of light) to not only beat Rex but completely annihilate him. So far his boundless optimism has always been rewarded, even when he literally died, but this time he is faced with stakes that are impossible to even an unreasonable person, and the persona cracks. This is good writing imo because there is precedent for this. Addam was a good man but he is ultimately a weak one as he puts Pyra in a capsule to be someone else's probably in an era. Rex is literally repeating history, deciding the enomity of this Aegis nonsense is more than he can handle. In Addam's era that shit flies because everyone worships the ground he walks on, but in Rex's era his friends dont worship him. They tell him straight to his face that he's coping and needs to man up. And that makes all the difference. In a story about the power of friendship, I kind of love that the solution isnt in the protagonist's innate traits. It's the integrity and courage of the supporting cast that changes history ("they" won't let the world burn a second time).
An extra beautiful touch is that after Poppi encourages him Rex shuts up. There's a shot of him gathering his resolve even *before* he finds out theres a magical macguffin that solves everything, which makes all the difference for how I respect him
Anyone willing to count how many characters the Xenoblade franchise has fake-out killed and miraculously brought back?
@@June26A7well, in the end, 5 of them died after being brought back to life. So I never felt like it was a real thrope
@@June26A7 Don't forget colonel Square-tache. We see him getting a whole floating tank (or whatever that thing is) thrown on him in the attack in colony 9 and I think the next.time we see him is on sword valley.
Let's see... Fiora, Shulk, Rex, Niall, Malos if you played Torna first, Addam if you want to count his consciousness? Mio, Noah, Shania?
If you want to count NG+, then you can add Akhos, Patroka, and Mikhail. There's also Roc, but him returning wasn't "miraculous", though Aegaeon could be considered miraculous due to the crack in his Core Crystal that may have been an animation error. You can also argue Zeke coming back after his "accidents" even if we didn't see him _die._
Be glad it was only how many characters and not how many times, otherwise we'd have to add, like, 4 each for Mio and Noah from their backstories.
@@Flipercat you can learn he survived through dialogue at colony 9.
I mean at least for 3 it make sense since the whole thing was about death and rebirth in this pointless Cycle
Because the one with power are unwilling to move forward fearing the unknown future
I know it's usually an annoyance, but for me the fact that this cutscene is so long helps this one.
You don't get a reprieve, no gameplay, no fight scenes, you're stuck there, with them, and like the characters, there's nothing you can do either.
You can’t have a permanent death in a Xenoblade game
Spoilers
Vandham, Sorean, Kallian, Gadolt (the second time), Egil, Dickson, Meyneth, Lorithia, Akhos, Jin, Patroka, Mikhail, Malos, Lora, Hugo, Haze and Milton: do I mean nothing to you?
love the xc content!
No, the darkest hour in XC2 was when Rex was completely broken after realizing Elysium was a lie and he cried with his head in his hands, asking himself, "Did I go wrong somewhere?"
Also Rex not believing he can beat the guy who decimated all the party while he had the Aegis BY HIMSELF is not out of character lmao THERE IS NO WAY HE CAN POSSIBLY BEAT THE GUY WHAT IS HE GOING TO DO ??
Yeah, also the same character who effortlessly beat him basically said "Your recklessness is what caused this, you should be ashamed of yourself" so it's understandable that he would be ashamed of his recklessness. It's only until he learns about "Super anime power-up relic" that he is able to return to a semblance of his old self and can eventually develop as a character.
@@thestormwizard6447 thats not true lmao, Rex goes in once again reckless with no plan and then because the writers give him everything he need to be consistently right he wins again by being reckless and never grow out of his recklessness, the relic was never going to help in the first fucking place because we know how blades work and even if he got the sword it would have been useless, there has been 0 growth from minute 1 to the very end for Rex, every time he says he was stupid, he go in and do the same thing again like a mad man
Malos said they probably wont be alive by the time he gets his powers back ? thank god he was lying lmao they were just sleepy, thanks writers, XC2 is a good game actually methinks
not once in the game he thinks, even the last fucking thing he does when Pneuma sacrifice herself is rush in trying to get with her because he act before thinking and he never grow out of it LMAO
@@fikaieldjouRegarding Pyra/Mythra ‘just sleepy,’ I think it’s actually the same deal as the end of the game. Malos really did reduce them to an empty husk, but Rex was carrying their backup disc. (his half of their core Crystal)
Once he reunited with them, he was finally able to build a true emotional (and probably bluetooth idk) connection with them, and through that connection restored what was lost.
@@Dash123456789Brawl that is complete cope, you know damn well the core are synched up, if it is possible for them to have a backup where they're fine, then Rex and Mythra should heal each other wounds because the other is fine
@@fieldkaiju Even if the explanation doesn’t totally make sense, it’s better than having no explanation.
I've been working on my own game for almost 4 years now and I've decided to scrap a darkest hour type scene I've written. A second chance.
Best of luck with the game!!
FF9 had a good darkest hour too. imo.
XC3 is honestly a perfect game, not my favorite, but definitely the best game ever. And the best part was the darkest hour
i didnt expect a nier Automata spoiler in here yikes, currently playing that, but great video non theless.
Aah sorry, I wasn't referencing any specific plot point from Automata, just the writing style and how it differs from the XC series writing
The best darkest hour with the most balloon fart follow-up afterwards. The only big flaw with this scene is knowing it doesn’t get carried over later, it’s just moved on from, impact mostly gone with the wind.
I don't like "it's a Nintendo game" or "the gameplay didn't allow for it" as excuses for Mio not permanently dying. This is only a Nintendo game in the same way Fire Emblem is a Nintendo game and people die in those games all the time. Also, the gameplay could have been changed to account for Noah not having an Ouroboros partner. It's not like protagonists having exclusive mechanics isn't something that tons of other JRPGs (including every other Xenoblade game) do. There was already an entire fake-out mechanic at the beginning of the game with the flame clock. It goes away in 10 seconds but Monolith put it in to throw us off. They were willing to go the extra mile to enhance the story there, why not here? The story and themes are so immensely undercut by Mio coming back in any capacity. The story should be priority number 1 with JRPGs, that's why we play them, that's why they affect us so deeply. The thing that Noah learns throughout the flashback scenes is that sometimes you need to keep moving forward even when you don't know what's coming next in the hope that everything will turn out alright and that trying to stay in the same place to preserve what you have will destroy you. This is what sets him apart from N. It's not very emotionally resonant (or realistic) when the very moment he makes that decision he gains everything he wanted. He needs to stick with that path for a prolonged period of time to prove that he's above N. He needs to show that despite truly not knowing how it will go, he believes it will be good, not say that he'll do that and then have everything good immediately given to him.
I never really considered it, but yeah, Rex was totally out of character in that scene
What scene? Can't just say that like it's chat, without context, as you watch it because you can't wait until the video's over to comment.
@@ShadowSkyX womp womp
i mean thats the fucking point, poppy was literally telling him thats out of character for him
we all act out of character in our darkest hour, it wouldnt be one otherwise
Honestly...I find XC3 to be a good game, but not nearly as fantastic as either XC1 or XC2, and that's for many reasons - gameplay, tutorials, story, characters.
Since we're specifically talking about "Darkest Hour", though, I feel this is an area where 3 is once again below the first two. For one thing, 3's Hour really only takes place in cutscenes, rather than actual gameplay, and is thus rather quickly done with in comparison with losing Pyra & Mythra in XC2, or losing Shulk in XC1. Also, since 3's is relegated to cutscenes, you never get to play as a 5-person team with Noah unable to Interlink, unlike 1 and 2 where you _did_ get to play without Shulk and Pyra & Mythra, and are thus a lot weaker.
The way the first two games handled it, losing a crucial party member gave the player a gameplay reason to want to get them back, due to the just-mentioned weaker party. Granted, the case with Shulk also doesn't last long, as Colony 6 is attacked (and Shulk wakes up) pretty soon after he enters his coma, but you're still forced to fight without him for a bit; the case with the Aegis in 2 is a lot more fleshed out, as rescuing her involves exploring two brand-new areas (the Spirit Crucible Elpys, and the Cliffs of Morytha), not to mention optionally exploring Tantal and/or doing Quests. Point is, the player really grows to miss having the Aegis in the party, and is thus driven to get her back as soon as possible.
3 just doesn't have this motivation whatsoever, which is quite unfortunate.
And the context behind 3's Darkest Hour...the party's jailed for the rest of Mio's last month, and she's going to be killed via Homecoming. I'm sorry, but this never really got me - why the SPARK would Monolith Soft permanently kill off the female protagonist? And leave Noah permanently unable to Interlink, wasting all his SP? Yeah, no, Mio was never gonna actually die.
Not to mention MS did the whole "female protag is murdered by antagonist - oh whoops she's not actually dead" thing before, *twice* - with Fiora in 1, and with the Aegis in 2. It's not that surprising anymore.
Hugo's death only works, gameplay-wise, because it happens in the ending cutscene of Torna: The Golden Country, and Vandham's works because he was never really a proper party member (he couldn't awaken new Blades, couldn't unlock Roc's Affinity Chart - two major red flags. Tora also can't awaken Blades, but he's got proper story justification and gets Poppi QT in the very next chapter). Mio's death...just wouldn't work in any way, unless it was akin to Hugo's death or Pneuma's sacrifice, that being in the ending cutscene where it doesn't impact gameplay at all.
Then the idea that THE ENTIRE PARTY was supposed to be executed after her...yeah, right, no. If getting rid of Mio was unbelievable, then this mass execution of the party is just purely ludicrous. Simply put, who would we play as, hm? That group of Ouroboros candidates? As if.
I'm sorry, but XC3's Darkest Hour just doesn't work for me. It doesn't make sense gameplay-wise, it doesn't affect me emotionally unlike Pyra's sacrifice and torture, it's over in a couple of cutscenes with minimal gameplay.
not quite that good, the rules around how all that happens makes it an impossibility. When Noah and M interlinked, he should have known it wasn't Mio, in fact they probably shouldn't even be able to interlink in the first place, because why would Moebius and Ouroboros be able to do it. It got me the first time, but after extensive analysis of the script and rules, all of that isn't that well crafted
That along witht he fact that, well Noah couldn't even have chosen to be Moebius, making this whole thing pointless in retrospect, cheap emotional "payoffs" that aren't actually payoffs when you have more context later in the story, this is modern Xenoblade trademark lmao