I think the lives idea is pretty misused. The Erin's should treat it more as a 'gift' like many ambitious leaders made it out to be in the first books. Even if all nine lives get wiped out similar to Tigerstar's case, it would still have more interesting plot than 'oh, let's let these guys live for the next four or five series while wiping away all their lives at once even though a cat dies every book and these leaders are completely capable of dying' or 'oh, this guy got possessed, but let's bring him back because he's the ThunderClan leader.' The Erin's are wasting a lot of potential that I would love to see, and I'm hoping ASC brings that new potential.
@@kcproductions1546 I am aware! My point is that it'd be nice to have thing like that, so that there would be a bit more of a topic to write about that still remains similar to the Warriors lore ^^
Imagine if the nine lives were actually more like a gift. Where, whenever the leader dies, StarClan has the OPPOURTUNITY to send them back, based on the leader's previous actions. This would add tension when a leaders dies - were they worthy of their last life to be granted a new one to serve their clan? Additionally, this would be a good failsafe to protect Clans from bad leaders like Brokenstar or Tigerstar. They do bad things, die, BAM, not allowed back. To make it even more interesting (because if a cat like Tigerstar knew he might not get resurrected, he wouldn't try to be leader in the first place) deputies and first time leaders wouldn't know that StarClan has to grant you your next life until they die the first time. All cats (perhaps barring medicine cats) would think that a leader gets nine lives. Well, the leaders don't learn until the time of their first death how it really works. What do you guys think?
@@Sashasangels I think I know what you’re saying, but the answer is actually no if I interpreted your question right. Pinestar only had 1 life left, if he died that was it, Im not sure how that works exactly since he already had 1 life originally but maybe it takes it as he loses the life he had first, and the other lives are starclan-given so the life he took to live as a kitty pet was one of the lives starclan gave him?… if that makes sense. Could be a possible explanation, although I wish there was a better one. ^^;
@@Sashasangels to clear up any confusion (as pass explanations seem a little confusing) Pinestar left the clans to be a kittypet while still having one life, and Sunfall his deputy, became Sunstar. But because Pinestar was still alive, Starclan couldn’t give him his final life, as that’s always given by the previous clan leader (ex: Bluestar gave Firestar his final life, Leopardstar gave Mistystar her final life etc). This meant that Sunstar never received 9 lives, and only had 8. Another example is Brokenstar and Nightpelt(star, whatever you wanna call it) when Nightstar becomes leader, Brokenstar still had 9 lives, he was just exiled. That meant that Nightstar never got any lives as only one cat from each clan can have 9 lives at once.
I think an important note is that I and many others never considered extra lives to be a way to ensure long lives for leaders. To me and people I talked with when I was still reading the books, the lives were there to allow leaders to sacrifice themselves for their clan over and over with little consequence. Their last life was meant to be one of getting their stuff together, like picking a deputy to succeed them rather than help them, but the other eight were purely for sacrifice. I always saw it more like Bluestar jumping the gorge with the dogs for fireheart or maybe a past leader allowing themself to die to greencough to save herbs for their sick Clanmates with only one life rather than mistystar just pulling through another decade of drama.
True, especially that last part. Didn't Firestar offer to stay with the sick cats in the twoleg nest they turned into a secondary camp for all the cats that caught greencough? I remember he either had very little symptoms or not, but he offered to stay to ensure he could give water or feed the ones too sickly too move.
The Scourge one-shot thing gets brought up a bit, and I always have the same answer. SCOURGE DID NOT KNOW ABOUT STARCLAN! He didn’t know about the 9 lives thing and only managed to one-shot Tigerstar because Tigerstar left his belly exposed, Scourge just thought he took longer to die. Why didn’t he do it again on Firestar? BECAUSE IT'S NOT A FREAKING SUPER MOVE IN A FIGHTING GAME. He thought Firestar was already dead, so he turned his back on him, and got killed because of it.
Yeah but what was he even thinking when Tigerstar was like convulsing on the ground as he lost all his lives? I'd think Scourge, who was evidently very experienced with killing cats, would see that and at least go "huh, that's weird." Cuz, y'know, that's not normal.
I will disagree on the scourge part Firestar did come back with 8 lives but scourge being able to oneshot him was still a looming danger Just because he couldn't get him with the move he got tigerstar with dosent mean there wouldn't be another scenario where scourge could have gotten firestar on his back and expose him to a Oneshot kill
I mean if Scourge was able to one-shot kill Tigerstar, who was much bigger then him and to some extent stronger then him yet was killed despite having all his nine lives, then yea Scourge could have easily also kill Firestar if the if something went differently, so yea there’s was level of danger
But there is a difference when it's main villain vs the main character, I truly felt no tension even when I was a wee child reading that scene. Rolling my eyes and just being like, "Fine kill scourge already, whatever I guess, bullshit that Tigerstar lost all his but you probably arn't going to lose more then one."
@@Parasolhyena i mean that goes for main characters in general though. firestar having nine lives or one life doesn't change whether or not you believe he's going to die in that scene i think firestar having nine lives in the first series was fine, but it became kinda pointess after the first series because the plot was never meant to stretch that long
1:56 You gotta admit, when Firestar died and came back it really put the fear of Starclan into Scourge for his final moments. I think it was funny cause I imagine Scourge was like "WTF I KILLED YOU" and Firestar just says "Sike you thought" and claps him
Yeah its annoying. They all seem so strong until they get 9 lives, dying the most common ways like Firestar for example. You could give them 1 life to make it more interesting, but it also comes with like making them more wise or something similar to that instead of handing them 9 lives . Giving them 1 life makes it more exciting because the reader is more thrilled to see when they're going to die or scared which is where the drama steps in like for instance a fight between Firestar and Tigerstar. As given to the example the reader would wonder who would die first instead of "oh Firstar already has 9 lives. he'll be fine." Plus, it doesn't even make sense. If Starclan knew Tigerstar was bad, why give him 9 lives? To make him live longer just to kill and be evil? Its misused on wrong cats.
@@SplashWarrior_Edits StarClan's reasoning for nine lives changes every time. They gave it to Tigerstar "supposedly" because a sign was given to the medicine cat and ShadowClan had no leader or deputy so he had to follow up (I dint remember if it was faked or not, but it could've made it that the other living cats chose him). Also for Tigerstar, the writers said that Scourge had hit multiple major organs when he killed Tigerstar, causing him to lose them one at a time, however, Raggedstar (Brokenstar's father) got his 9 lives ripped from him by getting his throat ripped out, and Firestar almost lost 6 at once from a fox trap. For Nightstar, they said Brokenstar was still alive and was technically leader of ShadowClan, even if he was imprisoned so Nightstar was nevee given his name or his lives (he and his medicine cat pretended he got his name and lives). However, Sunstar (before Bluestar) was only given 8 lives because Pinestar kept his one life to become a kittypet. And there's Tigerstar II, who died before getting his lives so he only got 8 (SPOILERS: this should have happened again in the new book). And don't forget the fact that leaders can apparently give their lives back to StarClan if they don't feel like being leader (Bluestar mentioned this, but it never happened until Rowanstar.) I think that's all the inconsistencies with leader's nine lives if I remember correctly.
@@SplashWarrior_Edits Honestly StarClan are just so confusing sometimes. They didn't give Nightstar lives because Brokenstar still had one life left, but the SAME THING happened with Pinestar, he was still on his last life when he left his clan but they still gave Sunstar eight lives. And yeah, they give cats like Tigerstar and Brokenstar nine lives. That's StarClan guys!
I actually think Star clan didn’t genuinely give Tigerstar nine lives, I’m pretty sure Star clan might’ve not knew Tigerstar was evil and sense he was strong and thriving they chose him as leader.
Edit: to add on to the video I think Tigerstar's death was brilliant, it really set up Scourge as a great threat and if he had just one life his death wouldn't be as impactful Remember even Firestar felt bad to see Tigerstar lose his lives one by one and his death was basically torture, it was horrifyingly exciting What I believe would make it better (but much more dark) is taking the "life of courage" etc to the fullest What I mean is imagine that after the ceremony all lives the leader is given are based on what the starclan cat says and their life revolves around it until they lose it So for example if a leader receives a life of courage during that life they are overconfident, get into unreasonable coflicts easier etc. during a life of love they are so focused on love they don't see the life outside of it etc etc Why do I think it would make it interesting? That would mean some leaders would purposefully kill themselves/ask to be killed to go through different lives according to the current situation Yes I'm aware this is screwed up and would never happen but it's interesting to think about
Honestly, I remember thinking the lives would affect their behaviors like that when I first read Firestar's ceremony. The way they set it up with the speeches kinda imply that with the wording, with the whole "with *this* life" stuff. Like, sure, it's just a fancy speech for theatrics, but it would've been cool if it did work like that! But like you said, it would make for darker story ideas, but I like to imagine in a different timeline it was written like that...
That’d be cool. I like that idea. Maybe starclan says because they seem to not be taking the lives they give them seriously, they make them act like that. Tigerstar was given nine lives to hopefully bring up shadowclan, fulfill his ambition, and he gets lives for things like compassion, hoping to make him into a better cat. I didn’t memorize his lines so idk if compassion was actually one of them.
@@hyalophora Yup. I asked tennelle flowers on her latest video if I could use her rewriting power of three video to actually rewrite power of three, wanna help? We could totally team up and rewrite the books like this. Then tigerstar could also commit suicide to get to the lives he likes, making him dying by scourge much more realistic (as far as warrior cats goes)
@@Squirrelstar I certainly wouldn't mind joining you in your Warriors-rewriting endeavor. It sounds fun! Just one thing, where would we be doing it? I assume not in this reply section lol
I respectfully disagree with this, yes, it is a kind of dumb thing the way Firestar lost his lives, but having nine lives for being a leader is quite helpful. If leaders only had one life, they could just poof out of existence on their first day of being a leader, like if they got into a battle just when they turned into a leader, that would be a VERY risky scenario, especially if they didn't choose a deputy yet. Would you rather that happen? Probably not. With that concluded, I think leaders should have nine lives. I do respect your opinion though. Have a great day!
I never really got into the worrior cats series, but the idea that one life isn't enough for a leader idosen't really make sense to me. All throughout history, warrior kings have fought alongside their soldiers (Some of them did die), but it was't like they were just dying left and right. By only having one life, there is tension and there is a feeling that the leader must be protected.
@@clearilluion7481 well 1 life is too short, maybe 3 or 5 is better since the leader can protect the clan but it soon gets to the point where they need more and more defense as they go on dying and its not just the leader every single time protecting the clan
I think 4 is a perfect number. Enough for a leader to seem powerful and for them to have some leeway and keeping them from being killed all the time, while still allowing that danger and urgency to grow with each life lost. Plus its easier to keep track of their deaths with fewer on the table
Raggedstar, like Tigerstar, was another leader who got all of his lives taken from him at once; this was done purely for plot convenience - it let Brokenstar become leader faster, and also added another kill to Brokenstar’s list to make him seem more evil.
I'm surprised greystripe lived at all, wasn't he a product of direct close sibling incest?? Aren't incest kitten supposed to be sickly or does that only happen when it's done repeatedly throughout generations.
@@makeitraynex3875 Technically the whole incest thing happened because the authors didn't actually plan a mom or dad for greystripe in the books. They tried to do families trees several years after the 1st series was done cause fans kept asking. There isn't actually enough cats in the clan at the time for there not to be incest because of the relationships and families that *had* actually been canon. It's really a result of bad planning that you can ignore cause it's not specifically said in any of the books and was just over author QnAs. (Means you can headcanon to your hearts content to avoid the world where greystripe actually *was* a result of incest)
Within the first chapter flamepaw suggested the idea of changing leaders frequently so maybe that will become a new plot line. But personally for me I don’t mind nine lives just as long as they are consistent with them. And at the time I think that firestar’s nine live ceremony was something very memorable, even bramblestar felt like it had some meaning. But in general, I don’t mind cats having nine lives just as long as they have way of interpreting it and who knows maybe they will have some leaders retiring or stepping down, just a guess. Ps: here’s how firestar lost his nine lives. 1: killed by Scourge 2: killed by rats in his super Editions 3: confirmed by Vicky to have been died helping Ravenpaw 4: crushed by a tree helping ShadowClan in dawn. 5: killed by a fox trap in sunset. 6: dies of greencough in long shadows 7: killed by a fox. 8: killed by russetfur 9: dies of his wounds from the great battle. And sunstar only had eight lives since pinestar was still alive.
I think the nine lives idea worked well for the first series not just for Bluestar but for Tigerstar as well. Having the idea that leaders are basically immune to death made their deaths in the first series really impactful. Unfortunately it was never used again in later series for resons mentioned in the video :/
Nine lives are a good concept but the books do not work hard enough at setting up the world to make it work. The whole point is that during constant war you want a wise leader to be able to keep things stable (which is why each life comes with a blessing). I'd say it's lucky that cats like Mousefur lived so long when others in their generation died, but the death rate has slowed down so much in this series that it's pointless. It should be a sign of a GOOD leader if they're gone soon because they were in the front lines and giving up their lives for clanmates. If the books cycled through cats faster then there'd be enough tension to make the lives work.
You forgot that Tigerstar lost all nine of his lives in a single blow, when Scourge ripped his stomach so far open that the damage was irreversible, and caused him all nine deaths in just one part
"All of a sudden, they're on their last life." SPOILERS FOR RIVER I actually quite like when we don't know how many lives a leader has left-it adds to the drama and tension. Throughout Omen of the Stars, I just kept thinking "oh God, is this where Firestar dies for Good? How many lives does he have left?" And I think what they did with Mistystar is brilliant in terms of "oh no last life!" She and Duskfur get into an argument over the new code rules-cats can switch clans to become mates with someone in another clan after passing a trial chosen by the clan that cat wants to join, and a leader can be deposed if 75% of the clan, the medicine cats, and all other leaders agree. It was literal actual stress that caused Mistystar to just keel over. We all had a feeling she'd bite it in River, because she was on the cover, there was a described tragedy in RiverClan, it just made sense. Yet the scene itself is like "what the actual heck? Is this real?" I think with a Starless Clan, with how timid Bramblestar is behaving, which makes sense, I think we'll see the new leader rule implemented with him, as ThunderClan cats are concerned with his behavior, and lack of leadership skills. He's suffering from major PTSD, again makes sense. I can see him stepping down as he's much more like his paw self here, or the cats wanting new leadership all together in ThunderClan, as Squilf is also pretty old. I'm definitely getting an old vs young generation vibe theme for this arc. Especially in the ShadowClan and ThunderClan chapters. RiverClan chapters are mostly just SUFFERING CATS.
If you're reading this, you should be expecting spoilers I love how she just keeled over. It was cool and anticlimactic at the same time and I loved it. Honestly, I would've loved Curlstar. I was already thinking of the other leaders’ reactions and hoping one of them would be like ”wait, who's that”. I now want a cat who comes from another clan to be with their mate be chosen by Starclan to be leader. That would be so cool
@@ribottostudio yeah. The last thing we need, besides what could be the last female leader dying, as HawkSTAR. He could be worse than Ashfur. Just read his super edition
I've always excused the rapid Loss of lives as leaders being more reckless because death is no longer all that scary, it's something you can survive, it's not permanent like it is for most warriors, those warriors are forced to be more careful and thoughtful because they only have 1 life.
it is pointless but I like seeing some of my fav. leaders get to live longer. The fact a lot of my fav. charecters die quickly and don't get to live for a long time makes me sad Edit: Thanks for the likes I never got this much before
I stumbled upon the MAP ‘Starclan Trials’ which showcases an AU where Bluestar has to go through trials to earn her lives. Since then, I’ve deliberated on the idea, what if the leader had to earn each life by proving their skills and ability, or their moral character in a series of challenges at their ceremony? This would give leaders the potential to not earn all 9, perhaps having 3, or 7, or even 1 (which would give Nightstar better justification for having 1 life, or Sunstar dying almost immediately). It also gives Starclan more opinion on who the leaders are, instead of handing evil or unfit cats all 9 and saying, “Do as you will”. I really think this idea would benefit Warriors, as the writers can now control how long a leader will live, instead of, like you said, draining lives at each possible moment. And for anyone reading this comment, I’d like to hear what you think.
It’s so funny how they had the perfect opportunity last arc to include some real tension with leaders dying again. Have ie be that Harestar doesn’t come back to life because of Starclan. I like Harestar but it would’ve made the whole Broken Code Arc way more tense if Harestar died and leaders only had one life
Honestly I’m glad this was brought up because let’s be honest as soon a leader gains their nine lives they become more fragile then the warriors themselves- like bruh how- however one thing I would disagree here would be the Tigerstar part, I think that it was a genius decision, why? Well for starters the fact that a leader can actually loose their nine lives in one blow is honestly fascinating to me cause it establishes that despite having more lives then a warrior you can still die in one blow, another thing is that it gives off tension and reason on why Firestar had to be extra careful because he can end up like Tigerstar if able to be one shotted, that said yea I feel like those leaders are just being reckless considering how fast their loosing their lives and the fact that suddenly one can have one live only without establishing how they lost the previous ones is just HUH!?
I really want Leafstar to have most of her lives still, partially because I will go insane if there are no she-cat leaders and partially because I want her to become the next "Is she ever going to die?" cat. We already lost both of the previous ones, so we need more.
I thought Firestar's order of the death of his nine lives were 1. Scourge in The Darkest Hour 2. The battle against the rats in Firestar's Quest 3. Died helping Ravenpaw in The Heart of A Warrior 4. Crushed by a falling tree while helping ShadowClan in Dawn 5. Killed by Hawkfrost by a fox trap in Sunrise 6. Died of greencough in Long Shadows 7. Killed by a fox in The Fourth Apprentice 8. Killed fighting Russetfur in Fading Echoes 9. Died of wounds after the battle with the Dark Forest in The Last Hope I got this information online
“But I promise you they(Mistystar and Leafstar) will both have a single life left the second it’s needed for plot” This aged well… what if Mistystar was actually killed by plot convenience instead of the other thing o-o
Honestly, I have no clue what to do with the nine lives thing in my rewrite. I definitely want to keep it but don't want to make the leaders seem reckless with these lives so they don't live forever. The most I got for this is making so that leaders are more likely to engage in battles they start, not fearing them with extra lives and hey look drama and getting rid of extra cats! Maybe make nine lives a curse and blessing, like with the lives comes an increased chance of being in bad situations such as being most likely to be targeted by a dog when the dog randomly chooses who to chase with intent of killing. Or even have some poetry to the lives and have each live giver foreshadow how their live will be taken, again with the dog example have Swiftpaw's life be taken because Firestar was killed by dogs for that life, or have the trait they give them echo the cause, an example being if one is forgiveness the life will either be taken because they forgave too soon/wrong cat/someone who didn't deserve to be forgiven or refused to forgive at all/until it was too late. Or simply have those lives be put to use when plague, drought and famine strike. That's how I plan on having Harestar give his last life: greencough that he insisted someone else deserved to survive more than him, it was why he had nine wonderful lives to see WindClan grow and thrive. The last one is always going to skew my judgement when it comes to deaths during leafbare when greencough undoubtably springs up: the leader is sick as well as the others, someone dies because there wasn't enough catmint but the leader doesn't lose a life. It's always been frustrating to me when leaders are given priority when illness breaks out since I thought this was part of why they were given lives in the first place.
Idk if someone's mentioned this before, but has any leader died from complications of old age? What if the 9 lives couldn't save the cats from dying of old age? Mistystar could be wiped out easy if that were the case. Then again, cats can live an average of 16 years before passing away, idc if these cats are wild, they still have medicine.
I mean, maybe that's a factor in what made Mistystar kneel over and die. Also, did anyone notice that Mosspelt was still alive? She's gotta be the second oldest cat (well, first now). Why does RiverClan keep having the oldest cats and the ones who are revived the most (Heavystep)?
Ack! 4th. Aa so excited!! Your an inspiration. And literally except Mistystar, all of their lives are just gone like the normal span of a warrior...it makes no sense
Its ridiculous how much they shove in deaths and plot points from this that would make the books more dramatic and overall better if they weren't there.
Its so impressive how much your art and editing has improved over the years. I havent watched your videos in a long while, and i dont regret coming back again
Having 9 lives is pointless right now because the cats are getting along well. For a cat to need 9 lives they need to have a lot more threats to them. The issue with the lake territory is there are less threats to the cats. I think you have to remember the average age of death for all warrior cats is about 3 years. So many cats die really young. Sunstar lost all his lives due to fights over sunningrocks. Border skirmishes took out a lot of lives of the leaders in the old forest. Border skirmishes are rare at the lake territory and theres no roads so no traffic deaths, no rats from the barn. More trees have killed cats at the lake territory than the forest territory. I also don't think the fans help because they complain about leaders being leader for too long when in fact they SHOULD BE alive. Bluestar outlived several deputies. Theres no way she lived to only 7 it should have realistically been about 17-18 which is 6x the average lifespan of a warrior cat at 3 years which makes sense. Everyone complaining that mistystar is old doesnt understand that leaders should be living to about 18-20 years old. Mistystars age is about right. Firestar was made leader very young. Which also impacts how long he lived for. The leaders that were made leader very young tend to burn through their lives, possibly because theyre young and reckless? Tallstar and crookedstar were made leader as senior warriors. So it makes sense that they live longer. Bramblestar was also a fairly senior warrior when he became leader too so its expected he'd live a while. Onestar burned through his lives like no bodies business as well. Finally, bluestars lives actually mattered because it was high stakes for fireheart at the time. He was young, inexperienced and had to lead his clan and fullfil a prophecy. I think the writers intend for leaders to live ages but the fans complain so they change it.
I feel leaders go through lives so quickly because they get careless with them. A threat happens like a dog, fox, badger and the leader has the mindset of "I have nine lives, my warriors only have 1." and then begin throwing away their lives to save their Clanmates. Certainly a noble ideation but ultimately shows that they are careless because that's how you end up with inexperienced deputies becoming inexperienced leaders.
@@9nikola Training an apprentice doesn't give someone leadership skills. That's what they gain through being deputy. But with cats who become deputy and then the leader dies shortly after, then they end up with an inexperienced cat in a position of leadership. Which is exactly what's going to happen in the series this arc.
@@allura9163 Mroe notably, it happened with Onestar and Bramblestar. Onestar having been made a deputy mere moments before becoming leader, and Bramblestar becoming deputy before getting an apprentice, but after having gotten a preference for authority.
@@9nikola but Brambleatar had many seasons as deputy when he became leader. Being a good or bad teacher doesn’t not determine whether you would be a good or bad leader, as it’s two similar yet still different skill sets, which is why the ‘must have trained an apprentice’ rule is flawed to begin with. With Onestar, inexperience was definitely an issue.
@@allura9163 Well I don't think it's perfect, but I do think it's something at least. And usually the deputy is also supposed to be a senior warrior who has contributed to leadership over a few seasons as well. I don't know if there could be some rule where the deputy has to have gotten experienced at leadership at some point before becoming leader, but I guess if it would be possible, they should probably put that in place when Nightheart tries to implement democrazy.
What if they made the lives easier to lose such as in the fights they have to hold on to them with sheer force of will, if they give up they die but if they hold on they can retain more lives.
Honestly I feel this is so true! I mean if the erins had to they could’ve just done five lives, or gave cats some minor immunity to injuries and diseases, but now the idea of nine lives… is well, failing. You either show EvErY life being lost or just put a catto on his last life… rly randomly. Both are bad ideas.
It was ridiculous that Nightstar couldn’t get his 9 lives literally just because Brokenstar was still alive but on the prink of death and because he was old Like at least half the cats that become leaders are already old at stage when they’re leader
I always find them getting their nine lives very exciting lol, I'm glad the nine lives exist. It's the only motive to be a wild cat over a kittypet. Be a great warrior get the deputy job then bam leader. 😹
I felt like Tigerstar Didn't Need 9 Lives Like he looses them all in Once. Edit: Thank you so Much for the Likes !! Alot of people Don't Notice my comments most of the time.
I think Tigerstar having nine lives only to lose them all in one blow was a good writing choice. It immediately set up how big of a threat Scourge was, and was a “good” punishment for all of Tigerstar’s crimes and showed how his ambition and greed for power meant nothing in the end
@@lemonpie_vanilla True But He only killed all if Tigerstar 9 lives Not firestars So it kinda made him look strong for 1 point also in that same book where he kills Tigerstar he dies by Firestar who Is his HAFE brother Lol that's why Squrrielflight Has a white paw
Personally I don't think it was a good writing choice. It felt inconsistent with the previous representation of how lives worked - the assumption was that any fatal injury would put the cat into a weakened instead of dead state, allowing them time to heal. The fox trap and recurring sickness worked because they continuously or repeatedly kill leaders. Giving a secondary antagonist the ability to bypass "lives" in one blow entirely made no sense, especially considering that it never came up again as a way for, say, Hawkfrost to kill Firestar, and imo it would have been better if Tigerstar defied StarClan entirely and was never given lives, but still claimed the title of leader. He was already a threatening antagonist. Undermining the Warrior Code and StarClan's authority for did no favours to the series.
Does anyone remember that when a leader loses a life, that life lives in StarClan but is deaf? Clearly the writers didn't, otherwise Bramblestar's lost life should have been wandering around with him during Ash(Bramble)star's reign, and it could have join the protagonists in the Dark Forest. They even could have made it that if the one life died, that just means when Bramblestar loses his last life, he will already be slightly faded in StarClan
I love seeing issues in the real books and fixing them in my fan stories. Two of the protagonists of the story start as leaders, one with (i think) half of their lives, and one with about 6 left. The one with six lives is actually afraid that her increased life span will cause her to still be alive even when all the cats she loves are gone. This goes so far that for the longest time she refuses to take a mate or even make close friendships. As for the other, a curse that has actual plot relevance takes each of his remaining lives one at a time until he dies. Then me and my friend decided we weren’t done with him, and since our story incorporates lots of magic, we just, revived him.
It's good that leaders have 9 lives because then they can sacrifice themselves to save their Clan a countless amount of times and come back to life again.
This is why, in my Warriors fanfiction, I'm trying to make sure every leader's deaths count. Of course I use some cutting of lives at the start of the story to make sense, and it's still a WIP, but I'm not throwing lives away willy-nilly. Darkstar starts with 2 lives, Hazestar starts with 3 lives (she's probably not going to die), Acornstar starts with 1 life, Birchstar starts with 1 life, and Hollystar starts with 5 lives (she's probably not going to die either). Birchstar dies of foxglove poisoning that is VERY important to the plot AND helps set up one of the main villains; I'm not sure but one of Darkstar's lives might be lost in a conflict that also gets one of the main characters self-exiled, and one of the main characters takes over after her second life is lost; I'm not sure how I'm going to kill Acornstar but it's not just going to be "Oops, she needs to die, pull out the deputy!" I try to write things deliberately, and you've actually made some very good points I can use. Thanks!
Dude Fireheart-Firestar was my favorite character ever alongside bleustar, yellowfang, sandstorm, and graystripe. But they completely ruined Firestar after the series ended and moved to The New Prophecy, while it was already annoying we got to hear a lot less of firestar as the kits from the warriors series were now the main character(s), Firestar practically died just by breathing with how crappy and insignificant most of his deaths were.
well, that can be explained, because when you know you have 9 lives, you will be much less careful with them and take risks every time you can risk to protect your clan. also i think when a leader dies of old age they loses all the lives they had
I don't think it's pointless if it's actually used LIKE firestar, which is tot he effect of actually getting down and dirty in the day to day of the clan without worrying that one incident will take them out. Firestar's use of his lives is the best imo, it shows that he's still out there involved with his clan and doing duties and why his clan would have such a high opinion of him for always throwing himself into work and trouble for them, unlike bramblestar who's sat in his den his entire reign and had to be literally assassinated to lose even one life...
Honestly even though Firestar was the only leader to have almost all of his nine lives be big events in the books, they still felt dragged out and wasted. Every other leader always gets their nine lives, and then a few books later, suddenly they are on their last life. I honestly think that the nine lives should only be given to a few leaders, it could be more of a privalege, or leaders don't get nine lives they just take on the star name and become leader of the Clan and only get nine lives if they do some super heroic act that causes them to die or something like that so StarClan revives them with a few extra lives bc that leader has earned it, and StarClan can take these lives away if they feel that the leader doesn't deserve them anymore. Giving EVERY leader nine lives just makes their leadership go on for so long. We haven't even had the case of a leader losing all of their lives at once since Tigerstar I think. Now that leaders can be disposed of I wonder if, when they are disposed of, they keep the nine lives or StarClan takes them and gives the new leader nine lives bc if former leaders got to keep nine lives its almost like they are still leader they just don't have authority. Also with this new rule RiverClan is definitely going to have a leader in this arc that the rest of the cats in the Clan want to get rid of and this might make Frostpaw, who chose that cat, feel like she made a mistake and she thinks she can't actually speak to StarClan that well. I just feel like with the Warrior Code changes they should have take out the "leader's word is the Warrior Code" rule bc that is by far the worst rule in the code and it gives bad leaders way too much power as shown with Ashfur in Bramblestar's body situation. I feel like cats should also be able to vote on some topics like what if they get rid of a bad leader and the deputy is bad as well then what will happen?
I think the issue here, is that all cats die at the drop of a hat. There are many that only last around a book or so. Why wouldn’t they want the leader to have multiple lives to waste on dumb stuff so they’re still around when the important stuff happens?
Shadowclan goes through so many leaders, Chedastar, Raggedstar, Brokenstar, Nightstar(he didn't receive 9 lives but still) Tigerstar, Blackstar (lived the longest) Rowanstar now Tigerstar 2 all of them became leaders close to one another, the writers just love killing them all off for the clan drama
I think if we weren’t stuck in only ThunderClan for so many arcs, we would have been better able to appreciate the nine lives things. If we saw how all the other leaders lost a majority of their lives, then while the reveal that one died wouldn’t be big and surprising, it would at least feel more… idk, real?
I disagree with you about Firestar's first death. It may not have great tension, in terms of a permanent character death, but it showed several things to me: 1. What happens to a leader when they lose a life. 2. Firestar's reaction to 1. 3. Starclan's presence 4. Revelation of Starclan's purpose. 5. Giving Firestar the faith and courage needed to push forward. My opinion, though. Wait, Firestar was killed TWICE by a tree? I think Leafstar's nine lives ceremony was important; gaining them in the midst of all the forgiveness and reconciliation. A lot of your problems with the story seems to be more of a writing issue rather than a lives issue. A great writer could find a good balance of having leaders lose lives.
I think it would of been much better if Scrouge took more lives out of Firestar. He was easily able to oneshot Tiger star who was clearly stronger and more fit than Firestar, It would of build a ton of tension for fire star to be left with 3 lives. Maybe even create new drama.
wanting to be leader is like wanting a death wish and becoming deputy is like signing up to die- then becoming leader normally means dying earlier than most cats
They really should have made it so Firestar has no time to get his nine lives, so StarClan says "Screw it, here you go" to beat out Scourge with the tension still there.
I know this video is kinda old (3 weeks old), but you forgot to mention one of firestars lives. In sunset, he actually loses one of his 9 lives bc of the fox trap that hawkfrost led(?) him to. So I'm pretty sure the order of his lives lost would be, 1. Scourge (Darkest hour) 2. Unknown (most likely in one of the patrols against some Bloodclan followers during one of ravenpaws graphic novels) 3. Rat attack (Firestar's Quest) 4. Falling tree (Dawn) 5. Fox trap (Sunset) 6. Greencough (Long Shadows) 7. Fox attack (Start of The Fourth Apprentice) 8. Russetfur (Fading Echos) 9. Wounds after The Great Battle (The Last Hope) Please correct me if I'm wrong, but overall, I agree with the video. Leaders lose their lives super quickly, and I hate that they just either dispose of their lives, or skip them entirely. Anyways, that's it, goodbye, sorry again that this comment is late and very long to read-
i havent read the newer series, but knowing the fact that they lost connection to starclan etc, it couldve been made a plotpoint that leaders cant get 9 lives anymore, or that starclan is so disconnected (and stays so disconnected) that they have to learn how to live by themselves, and maybe only getting 3 lives instead of 9
the 9 lives should stay, tbh, if it were to change, either bump it down to 8 or raise it up to 10, 8,9,or 10 lives would be OK. In fact, I think that how many lives a leader gets depends on their actions. Ex Firestar and Blusestar still getting nine and tigerstar 1 only getting 4-5, onestar getting like 7, bramble with 8 or mistystar and leafstar getting something between 9-12 for plot convenience etc etc.
Honestly I wish the nine lives thing was a myth in Warriors as well, started by some kits who noticed that their leader could deal with lots of things due to being given extra strength and energy by Starclan.
I think the lives idea is pretty misused. The Erin's should treat it more as a 'gift' like many ambitious leaders made it out to be in the first books. Even if all nine lives get wiped out similar to Tigerstar's case, it would still have more interesting plot than 'oh, let's let these guys live for the next four or five series while wiping away all their lives at once even though a cat dies every book and these leaders are completely capable of dying' or 'oh, this guy got possessed, but let's bring him back because he's the ThunderClan leader.' The Erin's are wasting a lot of potential that I would love to see, and I'm hoping ASC brings that new potential.
Tigerstar lost all his nine lives because he damaged his nine vital organs and because he deserved it
@@kcproductions1546 I am aware! My point is that it'd be nice to have thing like that, so that there would be a bit more of a topic to write about that still remains similar to the Warriors lore ^^
@@kcproductions1546 and because he wasn't actually the leader at the time
nvm I didnt realize he just lost all of them at once
Imagine if the nine lives were actually more like a gift. Where, whenever the leader dies, StarClan has the OPPOURTUNITY to send them back, based on the leader's previous actions. This would add tension when a leaders dies - were they worthy of their last life to be granted a new one to serve their clan? Additionally, this would be a good failsafe to protect Clans from bad leaders like Brokenstar or Tigerstar. They do bad things, die, BAM, not allowed back.
To make it even more interesting (because if a cat like Tigerstar knew he might not get resurrected, he wouldn't try to be leader in the first place) deputies and first time leaders wouldn't know that StarClan has to grant you your next life until they die the first time. All cats (perhaps barring medicine cats) would think that a leader gets nine lives. Well, the leaders don't learn until the time of their first death how it really works. What do you guys think?
Quick note: Sunstar had 8 lives, not 9, because Pinestar wasn't dead.
that's quite interesting, did pinestar have a life left, so sunstar didn't have 9?
@@Sashasangels yes.
@@Sashasangels I think I know what you’re saying, but the answer is actually no if I interpreted your question right. Pinestar only had 1 life left, if he died that was it, Im not sure how that works exactly since he already had 1 life originally but maybe it takes it as he loses the life he had first, and the other lives are starclan-given so the life he took to live as a kitty pet was one of the lives starclan gave him?… if that makes sense. Could be a possible explanation, although I wish there was a better one. ^^;
@@flame1949 yeah I'd Imagine they just kinda die in their sleep during their leadership ceremony in order to get their 9 lives
@@Sashasangels to clear up any confusion (as pass explanations seem a little confusing) Pinestar left the clans to be a kittypet while still having one life, and Sunfall his deputy, became Sunstar. But because Pinestar was still alive, Starclan couldn’t give him his final life, as that’s always given by the previous clan leader (ex: Bluestar gave Firestar his final life, Leopardstar gave Mistystar her final life etc). This meant that Sunstar never received 9 lives, and only had 8. Another example is Brokenstar and Nightpelt(star, whatever you wanna call it) when Nightstar becomes leader, Brokenstar still had 9 lives, he was just exiled. That meant that Nightstar never got any lives as only one cat from each clan can have 9 lives at once.
I think an important note is that I and many others never considered extra lives to be a way to ensure long lives for leaders. To me and people I talked with when I was still reading the books, the lives were there to allow leaders to sacrifice themselves for their clan over and over with little consequence. Their last life was meant to be one of getting their stuff together, like picking a deputy to succeed them rather than help them, but the other eight were purely for sacrifice. I always saw it more like Bluestar jumping the gorge with the dogs for fireheart or maybe a past leader allowing themself to die to greencough to save herbs for their sick Clanmates with only one life rather than mistystar just pulling through another decade of drama.
True, especially that last part. Didn't Firestar offer to stay with the sick cats in the twoleg nest they turned into a secondary camp for all the cats that caught greencough? I remember he either had very little symptoms or not, but he offered to stay to ensure he could give water or feed the ones too sickly too move.
The Scourge one-shot thing gets brought up a bit, and I always have the same answer. SCOURGE DID NOT KNOW ABOUT STARCLAN!
He didn’t know about the 9 lives thing and only managed to one-shot Tigerstar because Tigerstar left his belly exposed, Scourge just thought he took longer to die.
Why didn’t he do it again on Firestar? BECAUSE IT'S NOT A FREAKING SUPER MOVE IN A FIGHTING GAME. He thought Firestar was already dead, so he turned his back on him, and got killed because of it.
Yeah but what was he even thinking when Tigerstar was like convulsing on the ground as he lost all his lives? I'd think Scourge, who was evidently very experienced with killing cats, would see that and at least go "huh, that's weird." Cuz, y'know, that's not normal.
“But I promise you they (Mistystar and Leafstar) will both have a single life left the moment it’s needed for plot”
This aged well…
(Asc spoilers) rip mistystar she couldve lived longer but plot convienence and her lame death said otherwise…😔
LMAO mistystar is literally peepaw William Afton
@@FrozenIceCrackers she lived long enough lol, she was one of the oldest characters in the series this point
@@mageofdoomsie1598 we still have thornclaw left
I know right! it was so sad in the book river
“But I’ll promise you they’ll only have a single life left when they are needed for the story”
The mad man, she predicted River’s whole plot.
I will disagree on the scourge part
Firestar did come back with 8 lives but scourge being able to oneshot him was still a looming danger
Just because he couldn't get him with the move he got tigerstar with dosent mean there wouldn't be another scenario where scourge could have gotten firestar on his back and expose him to a Oneshot kill
I mean if Scourge was able to one-shot kill Tigerstar, who was much bigger then him and to some extent stronger then him yet was killed despite having all his nine lives, then yea Scourge could have easily also kill Firestar if the if something went differently, so yea there’s was level of danger
A high one that is
@@LocalLazyStove that would ve been more interesting
But there is a difference when it's main villain vs the main character, I truly felt no tension even when I was a wee child reading that scene. Rolling my eyes and just being like, "Fine kill scourge already, whatever I guess, bullshit that Tigerstar lost all his but you probably arn't going to lose more then one."
@@Parasolhyena i mean that goes for main characters in general though. firestar having nine lives or one life doesn't change whether or not you believe he's going to die in that scene
i think firestar having nine lives in the first series was fine, but it became kinda pointess after the first series because the plot was never meant to stretch that long
1:56 You gotta admit, when Firestar died and came back it really put the fear of Starclan into Scourge for his final moments. I think it was funny cause I imagine Scourge was like "WTF I KILLED YOU" and Firestar just says "Sike you thought" and claps him
Scourge: the acctually fu-
-gets murdered by the cat who 'died'
funny commment
Yeah its annoying. They all seem so strong until they get 9 lives, dying the most common ways like Firestar for example. You could give them 1 life to make it more interesting, but it also comes with like making them more wise or something similar to that instead of handing them 9 lives . Giving them 1 life makes it more exciting because the reader is more thrilled to see when they're going to die or scared which is where the drama steps in like for instance a fight between Firestar and Tigerstar. As given to the example the reader would wonder who would die first instead of "oh Firstar already has 9 lives. he'll be fine." Plus, it doesn't even make sense. If Starclan knew Tigerstar was bad, why give him 9 lives? To make him live longer just to kill and be evil? Its misused on wrong cats.
Ye like why give Tigerstar his nine lives but what about Nightstar????
@@SplashWarrior_Edits StarClan's reasoning for nine lives changes every time. They gave it to Tigerstar "supposedly" because a sign was given to the medicine cat and ShadowClan had no leader or deputy so he had to follow up (I dint remember if it was faked or not, but it could've made it that the other living cats chose him). Also for Tigerstar, the writers said that Scourge had hit multiple major organs when he killed Tigerstar, causing him to lose them one at a time, however, Raggedstar (Brokenstar's father) got his 9 lives ripped from him by getting his throat ripped out, and Firestar almost lost 6 at once from a fox trap. For Nightstar, they said Brokenstar was still alive and was technically leader of ShadowClan, even if he was imprisoned so Nightstar was nevee given his name or his lives (he and his medicine cat pretended he got his name and lives). However, Sunstar (before Bluestar) was only given 8 lives because Pinestar kept his one life to become a kittypet. And there's Tigerstar II, who died before getting his lives so he only got 8 (SPOILERS: this should have happened again in the new book). And don't forget the fact that leaders can apparently give their lives back to StarClan if they don't feel like being leader (Bluestar mentioned this, but it never happened until Rowanstar.)
I think that's all the inconsistencies with leader's nine lives if I remember correctly.
@@SplashWarrior_Edits Honestly StarClan are just so confusing sometimes. They didn't give Nightstar lives because Brokenstar still had one life left, but the SAME THING happened with Pinestar, he was still on his last life when he left his clan but they still gave Sunstar eight lives. And yeah, they give cats like Tigerstar and Brokenstar nine lives. That's StarClan guys!
i feel dumb reading the replies even tho I knew all that ;-;
I actually think Star clan didn’t genuinely give Tigerstar nine lives, I’m pretty sure Star clan might’ve not knew Tigerstar was evil and sense he was strong and thriving they chose him as leader.
Edit: to add on to the video I think Tigerstar's death was brilliant, it really set up Scourge as a great threat and if he had just one life his death wouldn't be as impactful
Remember even Firestar felt bad to see Tigerstar lose his lives one by one and his death was basically torture, it was horrifyingly exciting
What I believe would make it better (but much more dark) is taking the "life of courage" etc to the fullest
What I mean is imagine that after the ceremony all lives the leader is given are based on what the starclan cat says and their life revolves around it until they lose it
So for example if a leader receives a life of courage during that life they are overconfident, get into unreasonable coflicts easier etc. during a life of love they are so focused on love they don't see the life outside of it etc etc
Why do I think it would make it interesting? That would mean some leaders would purposefully kill themselves/ask to be killed to go through different lives according to the current situation
Yes I'm aware this is screwed up and would never happen but it's interesting to think about
Honestly, I remember thinking the lives would affect their behaviors like that when I first read Firestar's ceremony. The way they set it up with the speeches kinda imply that with the wording, with the whole "with *this* life" stuff. Like, sure, it's just a fancy speech for theatrics, but it would've been cool if it did work like that! But like you said, it would make for darker story ideas, but I like to imagine in a different timeline it was written like that...
Fanfiction time?
That’d be cool. I like that idea. Maybe starclan says because they seem to not be taking the lives they give them seriously, they make them act like that. Tigerstar was given nine lives to hopefully bring up shadowclan, fulfill his ambition, and he gets lives for things like compassion, hoping to make him into a better cat. I didn’t memorize his lines so idk if compassion was actually one of them.
@@hyalophora Yup. I asked tennelle flowers on her latest video if I could use her rewriting power of three video to actually rewrite power of three, wanna help? We could totally team up and rewrite the books like this. Then tigerstar could also commit suicide to get to the lives he likes, making him dying by scourge much more realistic (as far as warrior cats goes)
@@Squirrelstar I certainly wouldn't mind joining you in your Warriors-rewriting endeavor. It sounds fun! Just one thing, where would we be doing it? I assume not in this reply section lol
I respectfully disagree with this, yes, it is a kind of dumb thing the way Firestar lost his lives, but having nine lives for being a leader is quite helpful. If leaders only had one life, they could just poof out of existence on their first day of being a leader, like if they got into a battle just when they turned into a leader, that would be a VERY risky scenario, especially if they didn't choose a deputy yet. Would you rather that happen? Probably not. With that concluded, I think leaders should have nine lives. I do respect your opinion though. Have a great day!
But nine feel like too much. I know, cats having nine lives is a thing, but I think 3-5 would make them feel less expendable.
Yeah 9 lives is way too much
I never really got into the worrior cats series, but the idea that one life isn't enough for a leader idosen't really make sense to me. All throughout history, warrior kings have fought alongside their soldiers (Some of them did die), but it was't like they were just dying left and right. By only having one life, there is tension and there is a feeling that the leader must be protected.
@@clearilluion7481 well 1 life is too short, maybe 3 or 5 is better since the leader can protect the clan but it soon gets to the point where they need more and more defense as they go on dying and its not just the leader every single time protecting the clan
I think 4 is a perfect number. Enough for a leader to seem powerful and for them to have some leeway and keeping them from being killed all the time, while still allowing that danger and urgency to grow with each life lost. Plus its easier to keep track of their deaths with fewer on the table
Raggedstar, like Tigerstar, was another leader who got all of his lives taken from him at once; this was done purely for plot convenience - it let Brokenstar become leader faster, and also added another kill to Brokenstar’s list to make him seem more evil.
When Greystripe outlives most of the modern Clan's leaders, you know you're doing something wrong
About that
I'm surprised greystripe lived at all, wasn't he a product of direct close sibling incest?? Aren't incest kitten supposed to be sickly or does that only happen when it's done repeatedly throughout generations.
@@makeitraynex3875 New secret of imortality, be an incest kid
yep.
@@makeitraynex3875 Technically the whole incest thing happened because the authors didn't actually plan a mom or dad for greystripe in the books. They tried to do families trees several years after the 1st series was done cause fans kept asking. There isn't actually enough cats in the clan at the time for there not to be incest because of the relationships and families that *had* actually been canon. It's really a result of bad planning that you can ignore cause it's not specifically said in any of the books and was just over author QnAs. (Means you can headcanon to your hearts content to avoid the world where greystripe actually *was* a result of incest)
Within the first chapter flamepaw suggested the idea of changing leaders frequently so maybe that will become a new plot line. But personally for me I don’t mind nine lives just as long as they are consistent with them. And at the time I think that firestar’s nine live ceremony was something very memorable, even bramblestar felt like it had some meaning. But in general, I don’t mind cats having nine lives just as long as they have way of interpreting it and who knows maybe they will have some leaders retiring or stepping down, just a guess.
Ps: here’s how firestar lost his nine lives.
1: killed by Scourge
2: killed by rats in his super Editions
3: confirmed by Vicky to have been died helping Ravenpaw
4: crushed by a tree helping ShadowClan in dawn.
5: killed by a fox trap in sunset.
6: dies of greencough in long shadows
7: killed by a fox.
8: killed by russetfur
9: dies of his wounds from the great battle.
And sunstar only had eight lives since pinestar was still alive.
I think the nine lives idea worked well for the first series not just for Bluestar but for Tigerstar as well. Having the idea that leaders are basically immune to death made their deaths in the first series really impactful. Unfortunately it was never used again in later series for resons mentioned in the video :/
Nine lives are a good concept but the books do not work hard enough at setting up the world to make it work. The whole point is that during constant war you want a wise leader to be able to keep things stable (which is why each life comes with a blessing). I'd say it's lucky that cats like Mousefur lived so long when others in their generation died, but the death rate has slowed down so much in this series that it's pointless. It should be a sign of a GOOD leader if they're gone soon because they were in the front lines and giving up their lives for clanmates. If the books cycled through cats faster then there'd be enough tension to make the lives work.
Right. Tiger star was a good leader.
You forgot that Tigerstar lost all nine of his lives in a single blow, when Scourge ripped his stomach so far open that the damage was irreversible, and caused him all nine deaths in just one part
Tbh thought it was because scourge hit 9 vital organs or something
@@Mag3.1415 all nine vital organs were torn out of him in that single blow, and fell out of his stomach to litter the forest floor
@@alyssagross5360 Imagine reading that as a kid and not getting traumatised. Couldn't be me 😐
"All of a sudden, they're on their last life."
SPOILERS FOR RIVER
I actually quite like when we don't know how many lives a leader has left-it adds to the drama and tension. Throughout Omen of the Stars, I just kept thinking "oh God, is this where Firestar dies for Good? How many lives does he have left?" And I think what they did with Mistystar is brilliant in terms of "oh no last life!" She and Duskfur get into an argument over the new code rules-cats can switch clans to become mates with someone in another clan after passing a trial chosen by the clan that cat wants to join, and a leader can be deposed if 75% of the clan, the medicine cats, and all other leaders agree. It was literal actual stress that caused Mistystar to just keel over. We all had a feeling she'd bite it in River, because she was on the cover, there was a described tragedy in RiverClan, it just made sense. Yet the scene itself is like "what the actual heck? Is this real?" I think with a Starless Clan, with how timid Bramblestar is behaving, which makes sense, I think we'll see the new leader rule implemented with him, as ThunderClan cats are concerned with his behavior, and lack of leadership skills. He's suffering from major PTSD, again makes sense. I can see him stepping down as he's much more like his paw self here, or the cats wanting new leadership all together in ThunderClan, as Squilf is also pretty old. I'm definitely getting an old vs young generation vibe theme for this arc. Especially in the ShadowClan and ThunderClan chapters. RiverClan chapters are mostly just SUFFERING CATS.
If you're reading this, you should be expecting spoilers
I love how she just keeled over. It was cool and anticlimactic at the same time and I loved it. Honestly, I would've loved Curlstar. I was already thinking of the other leaders’ reactions and hoping one of them would be like ”wait, who's that”. I now want a cat who comes from another clan to be with their mate be chosen by Starclan to be leader. That would be so cool
Another one bites the dust
@@tinydancerpresents1504 I hope to God that the dock leaf isn't a sign for leafstar dying since frostpaw had visions of her dad dying
@@ribottostudio yeah. The last thing we need, besides what could be the last female leader dying, as HawkSTAR. He could be worse than Ashfur. Just read his super edition
Tha k you guys for putting a spoiler warning before your comment some selfish inconsiderate people don't
I've always excused the rapid Loss of lives as leaders being more reckless because death is no longer all that scary, it's something you can survive, it's not permanent like it is for most warriors, those warriors are forced to be more careful and thoughtful because they only have 1 life.
it is pointless but I like seeing some of my fav. leaders get to live longer. The fact a lot of my fav. charecters die quickly and don't get to live for a long time makes me sad
Edit: Thanks for the likes I never got this much before
Hi Ash
Hi Ria
Imagine if Spottedleaf had nine lives...
Everyone's literal worse nightmare.
Funny how Tigerclaw/star got his 9 lives but he loses all of them over a fun-size kitty
Yes, Tigerstar, the greatest warrior in the forest, being killed by a tiny former-kittypet with big nails
scourge is basically “I’m kinda small but I have long nails so i’m deadly now”
Also, Sunstar got only 8 lives, but Nightstar gets none?
@@JetPaw4545 sharpened dog teeth as nails iirc, apparently. how tf does that work?
Geez I can’t believe Firestar died 10 years ago. I feel old
I stumbled upon the MAP ‘Starclan Trials’ which showcases an AU where Bluestar has to go through trials to earn her lives. Since then, I’ve deliberated on the idea, what if the leader had to earn each life by proving their skills and ability, or their moral character in a series of challenges at their ceremony? This would give leaders the potential to not earn all 9, perhaps having 3, or 7, or even 1 (which would give Nightstar better justification for having 1 life, or Sunstar dying almost immediately). It also gives Starclan more opinion on who the leaders are, instead of handing evil or unfit cats all 9 and saying, “Do as you will”.
I really think this idea would benefit Warriors, as the writers can now control how long a leader will live, instead of, like you said, draining lives at each possible moment. And for anyone reading this comment, I’d like to hear what you think.
It’s so funny how they had the perfect opportunity last arc to include some real tension with leaders dying again. Have ie be that Harestar doesn’t come back to life because of Starclan. I like Harestar but it would’ve made the whole Broken Code Arc way more tense if Harestar died and leaders only had one life
Honestly I’m glad this was brought up because let’s be honest as soon a leader gains their nine lives they become more fragile then the warriors themselves- like bruh how- however one thing I would disagree here would be the Tigerstar part, I think that it was a genius decision, why? Well for starters the fact that a leader can actually loose their nine lives in one blow is honestly fascinating to me cause it establishes that despite having more lives then a warrior you can still die in one blow, another thing is that it gives off tension and reason on why Firestar had to be extra careful because he can end up like Tigerstar if able to be one shotted, that said yea I feel like those leaders are just being reckless considering how fast their loosing their lives and the fact that suddenly one can have one live only without establishing how they lost the previous ones is just HUH!?
I really want Leafstar to have most of her lives still, partially because I will go insane if there are no she-cat leaders and partially because I want her to become the next "Is she ever going to die?" cat. We already lost both of the previous ones, so we need more.
I thought Firestar's order of the death of his nine lives were
1. Scourge in The Darkest Hour
2. The battle against the rats in Firestar's Quest
3. Died helping Ravenpaw in The Heart of A Warrior
4. Crushed by a falling tree while helping ShadowClan in Dawn
5. Killed by Hawkfrost by a fox trap in Sunrise
6. Died of greencough in Long Shadows
7. Killed by a fox in The Fourth Apprentice
8. Killed fighting Russetfur in Fading Echoes
9. Died of wounds after the battle with the Dark Forest in The Last Hope
I got this information online
Scourge killing Tigerstar 9 times at once with one move does make him feel like a major threat.
“But I promise you they(Mistystar and Leafstar) will both have a single life left the second it’s needed for plot”
This aged well… what if Mistystar was actually killed by plot convenience instead of the other thing o-o
Honestly, I have no clue what to do with the nine lives thing in my rewrite. I definitely want to keep it but don't want to make the leaders seem reckless with these lives so they don't live forever. The most I got for this is making so that leaders are more likely to engage in battles they start, not fearing them with extra lives and hey look drama and getting rid of extra cats! Maybe make nine lives a curse and blessing, like with the lives comes an increased chance of being in bad situations such as being most likely to be targeted by a dog when the dog randomly chooses who to chase with intent of killing. Or even have some poetry to the lives and have each live giver foreshadow how their live will be taken, again with the dog example have Swiftpaw's life be taken because Firestar was killed by dogs for that life, or have the trait they give them echo the cause, an example being if one is forgiveness the life will either be taken because they forgave too soon/wrong cat/someone who didn't deserve to be forgiven or refused to forgive at all/until it was too late. Or simply have those lives be put to use when plague, drought and famine strike. That's how I plan on having Harestar give his last life: greencough that he insisted someone else deserved to survive more than him, it was why he had nine wonderful lives to see WindClan grow and thrive.
The last one is always going to skew my judgement when it comes to deaths during leafbare when greencough undoubtably springs up: the leader is sick as well as the others, someone dies because there wasn't enough catmint but the leader doesn't lose a life. It's always been frustrating to me when leaders are given priority when illness breaks out since I thought this was part of why they were given lives in the first place.
Exactly!
I’ve got an AU where Darktail uses Mistystar’s lives against her.
Your name makes sense- Dovewings eyes ARE green
When the four clans were first developed the leaders were told: “ we give you 8 more lives so you can rule your clan for many moons
Idk if someone's mentioned this before, but has any leader died from complications of old age? What if the 9 lives couldn't save the cats from dying of old age? Mistystar could be wiped out easy if that were the case.
Then again, cats can live an average of 16 years before passing away, idc if these cats are wild, they still have medicine.
I mean, maybe that's a factor in what made Mistystar kneel over and die. Also, did anyone notice that Mosspelt was still alive? She's gotta be the second oldest cat (well, first now). Why does RiverClan keep having the oldest cats and the ones who are revived the most (Heavystep)?
@@petalleaf2808 Mosspelt is still alive ? She’s basically a living Mummy and has outlived anybody then lmao
I bet that the writers ignore Riverclan and that’s why mistystar is like 3136389 quilltrillpillbillion years old.
Edit: MISTYSTAR DIED???? HUH?
Tallstar did died of old age and was already ready to join Starclan.
I like how firestar dies way before graystripe even though he had none times the amount of lives as him
Ack! 4th. Aa so excited!! Your an inspiration. And literally except Mistystar, all of their lives are just gone like the normal span of a warrior...it makes no sense
Its ridiculous how much they shove in deaths and plot points from this that would make the books more dramatic and overall better if they weren't there.
Its so impressive how much your art and editing has improved over the years. I havent watched your videos in a long while, and i dont regret coming back again
Having 9 lives is pointless right now because the cats are getting along well. For a cat to need 9 lives they need to have a lot more threats to them. The issue with the lake territory is there are less threats to the cats. I think you have to remember the average age of death for all warrior cats is about 3 years. So many cats die really young.
Sunstar lost all his lives due to fights over sunningrocks. Border skirmishes took out a lot of lives of the leaders in the old forest. Border skirmishes are rare at the lake territory and theres no roads so no traffic deaths, no rats from the barn. More trees have killed cats at the lake territory than the forest territory.
I also don't think the fans help because they complain about leaders being leader for too long when in fact they SHOULD BE alive.
Bluestar outlived several deputies. Theres no way she lived to only 7 it should have realistically been about 17-18 which is 6x the average lifespan of a warrior cat at 3 years which makes sense.
Everyone complaining that mistystar is old doesnt understand that leaders should be living to about 18-20 years old. Mistystars age is about right.
Firestar was made leader very young. Which also impacts how long he lived for. The leaders that were made leader very young tend to burn through their lives, possibly because theyre young and reckless? Tallstar and crookedstar were made leader as senior warriors. So it makes sense that they live longer.
Bramblestar was also a fairly senior warrior when he became leader too so its expected he'd live a while. Onestar burned through his lives like no bodies business as well.
Finally, bluestars lives actually mattered because it was high stakes for fireheart at the time. He was young, inexperienced and had to lead his clan and fullfil a prophecy.
I think the writers intend for leaders to live ages but the fans complain so they change it.
Heavystep having more lives than Nightstar:
I feel leaders go through lives so quickly because they get careless with them. A threat happens like a dog, fox, badger and the leader has the mindset of "I have nine lives, my warriors only have 1." and then begin throwing away their lives to save their Clanmates. Certainly a noble ideation but ultimately shows that they are careless because that's how you end up with inexperienced deputies becoming inexperienced leaders.
They have multiple rules set in place to make sure no deputy is inexperienced though
@@9nikola Training an apprentice doesn't give someone leadership skills. That's what they gain through being deputy. But with cats who become deputy and then the leader dies shortly after, then they end up with an inexperienced cat in a position of leadership.
Which is exactly what's going to happen in the series this arc.
@@allura9163 Mroe notably, it happened with Onestar and Bramblestar. Onestar having been made a deputy mere moments before becoming leader, and Bramblestar becoming deputy before getting an apprentice, but after having gotten a preference for authority.
@@9nikola but Brambleatar had many seasons as deputy when he became leader. Being a good or bad teacher doesn’t not determine whether you would be a good or bad leader, as it’s two similar yet still different skill sets, which is why the ‘must have trained an apprentice’ rule is flawed to begin with.
With Onestar, inexperience was definitely an issue.
@@allura9163 Well I don't think it's perfect, but I do think it's something at least. And usually the deputy is also supposed to be a senior warrior who has contributed to leadership over a few seasons as well.
I don't know if there could be some rule where the deputy has to have gotten experienced at leadership at some point before becoming leader, but I guess if it would be possible, they should probably put that in place when Nightheart tries to implement democrazy.
It’s just shows how awesome Mousefur was being a strong independent lady.
What if they made the lives easier to lose such as in the fights they have to hold on to them with sheer force of will, if they give up they die but if they hold on they can retain more lives.
Plot twist it's just that upon gaining 9 lives the leaders get EXTREMELY careless
Honestly I feel this is so true! I mean if the erins had to they could’ve just done five lives, or gave cats some minor immunity to injuries and diseases, but now the idea of nine lives… is well, failing. You either show EvErY life being lost or just put a catto on his last life… rly randomly. Both are bad ideas.
It was ridiculous that Nightstar couldn’t get his 9 lives literally just because Brokenstar was still alive but on the prink of death and because he was old Like at least half the cats that become leaders are already old at stage when they’re leader
And he wasn’t even that old he would still be a warrior at the time if he didn’t have asthma.
Especially considering that Sunstar got his lives (albeit 8 not 9) when Pinestar was still alive.
One part of a book be like: Deaths: 1: Tigerstar’s 1st life, 2: Tigerstar’s 2nd life, 3: Tigerstar’s 3rd life, 4: Tigerstar’s 4th life, 5: Tigerstar’s 5th life, 6: Tigerstar’s sixth life, 7: Tigerstar’s seventh life, 8: Tigerstar’s eighth life, 9: Tigerstar’s last life,
Ik the video was just uploaded so I haven’t seen it yet- but I already agree lol
Well, technically Sunstar only got 8 lives since Pinestar left ThunderClan on his last life, but it's still insane that he lost all 8 so quickly
I always find them getting their nine lives very exciting lol, I'm glad the nine lives exist. It's the only motive to be a wild cat over a kittypet. Be a great warrior get the deputy job then bam leader. 😹
I think the only reason they really put that in there is because of the myth that cats have nine lives and they wanted to put that in somewhere lol.
I felt like Tigerstar Didn't Need 9 Lives Like he looses them all in Once.
Edit: Thank you so Much for the Likes !! Alot of people Don't Notice my comments most of the time.
I guess it was to show how much impact scourge's blow had? But yea kinda pointless XD
I think Tigerstar having nine lives only to lose them all in one blow was a good writing choice. It immediately set up how big of a threat Scourge was, and was a “good” punishment for all of Tigerstar’s crimes and showed how his ambition and greed for power meant nothing in the end
Tiger star lost all of his live because scourge struck all of his major organs
@@lemonpie_vanilla True But He only killed all if Tigerstar 9 lives Not firestars So it kinda made him look strong for 1 point also in that same book where he kills Tigerstar he dies by Firestar who Is his HAFE brother Lol that's why Squrrielflight Has a white paw
Personally I don't think it was a good writing choice. It felt inconsistent with the previous representation of how lives worked - the assumption was that any fatal injury would put the cat into a weakened instead of dead state, allowing them time to heal. The fox trap and recurring sickness worked because they continuously or repeatedly kill leaders. Giving a secondary antagonist the ability to bypass "lives" in one blow entirely made no sense, especially considering that it never came up again as a way for, say, Hawkfrost to kill Firestar, and imo it would have been better if Tigerstar defied StarClan entirely and was never given lives, but still claimed the title of leader. He was already a threatening antagonist. Undermining the Warrior Code and StarClan's authority for did no favours to the series.
Does anyone remember that when a leader loses a life, that life lives in StarClan but is deaf? Clearly the writers didn't, otherwise Bramblestar's lost life should have been wandering around with him during Ash(Bramble)star's reign, and it could have join the protagonists in the Dark Forest. They even could have made it that if the one life died, that just means when Bramblestar loses his last life, he will already be slightly faded in StarClan
I love seeing issues in the real books and fixing them in my fan stories. Two of the protagonists of the story start as leaders, one with (i think) half of their lives, and one with about 6 left. The one with six lives is actually afraid that her increased life span will cause her to still be alive even when all the cats she loves are gone. This goes so far that for the longest time she refuses to take a mate or even make close friendships. As for the other, a curse that has actual plot relevance takes each of his remaining lives one at a time until he dies. Then me and my friend decided we weren’t done with him, and since our story incorporates lots of magic, we just, revived him.
Wait this sounds really interesting!! Is there a way I can read this story?
Lol when the leaders say "Omg I only have one life left" I just think: "every other car also has just one life and they're doing fine"
9 lives we're very creative. But sometimes it feels weird,
I really think TigerStar didn't need them-
It's good that leaders have 9 lives because then they can sacrifice themselves to save their Clan a countless amount of times and come back to life again.
This is why, in my Warriors fanfiction, I'm trying to make sure every leader's deaths count. Of course I use some cutting of lives at the start of the story to make sense, and it's still a WIP, but I'm not throwing lives away willy-nilly. Darkstar starts with 2 lives, Hazestar starts with 3 lives (she's probably not going to die), Acornstar starts with 1 life, Birchstar starts with 1 life, and Hollystar starts with 5 lives (she's probably not going to die either). Birchstar dies of foxglove poisoning that is VERY important to the plot AND helps set up one of the main villains; I'm not sure but one of Darkstar's lives might be lost in a conflict that also gets one of the main characters self-exiled, and one of the main characters takes over after her second life is lost; I'm not sure how I'm going to kill Acornstar but it's not just going to be "Oops, she needs to die, pull out the deputy!" I try to write things deliberately, and you've actually made some very good points I can use. Thanks!
Dude Fireheart-Firestar was my favorite character ever alongside bleustar, yellowfang, sandstorm, and graystripe.
But they completely ruined Firestar after the series ended and moved to The New Prophecy, while it was already annoying we got to hear a lot less of firestar as the kits from the warriors series were now the main character(s), Firestar practically died just by breathing with how crappy and insignificant most of his deaths were.
You really won’t a leader to exist one second Alr
well, that can be explained, because when you know you have 9 lives, you will be much less careful with them and take risks every time you can risk to protect your clan. also i think when a leader dies of old age they loses all the lives they had
I don't think it's pointless if it's actually used LIKE firestar, which is tot he effect of actually getting down and dirty in the day to day of the clan without worrying that one incident will take them out. Firestar's use of his lives is the best imo, it shows that he's still out there involved with his clan and doing duties and why his clan would have such a high opinion of him for always throwing himself into work and trouble for them, unlike bramblestar who's sat in his den his entire reign and had to be literally assassinated to lose even one life...
Also almost everyone when they see the new book w mistystar on it
“Another one bites the dust.”
I’m a big fan of WaCa,and whit you in community, it blow up my mind! You are one of the bast!
Thank you, queen Akira!
I’ve never heard warrior cats be called waca, I giggled whenever I read that-
@@serene._ityz same first time. But i guess its batter then wc😭
the fact that you were actually right and mistystar died in river
Misterstar dying is a criminal offense.
"But I promise you, they will both have a single life left the moment they're needed for the story" this aged well
Honestly even though Firestar was the only leader to have almost all of his nine lives be big events in the books, they still felt dragged out and wasted. Every other leader always gets their nine lives, and then a few books later, suddenly they are on their last life. I honestly think that the nine lives should only be given to a few leaders, it could be more of a privalege, or leaders don't get nine lives they just take on the star name and become leader of the Clan and only get nine lives if they do some super heroic act that causes them to die or something like that so StarClan revives them with a few extra lives bc that leader has earned it, and StarClan can take these lives away if they feel that the leader doesn't deserve them anymore. Giving EVERY leader nine lives just makes their leadership go on for so long. We haven't even had the case of a leader losing all of their lives at once since Tigerstar I think. Now that leaders can be disposed of I wonder if, when they are disposed of, they keep the nine lives or StarClan takes them and gives the new leader nine lives bc if former leaders got to keep nine lives its almost like they are still leader they just don't have authority. Also with this new rule RiverClan is definitely going to have a leader in this arc that the rest of the cats in the Clan want to get rid of and this might make Frostpaw, who chose that cat, feel like she made a mistake and she thinks she can't actually speak to StarClan that well. I just feel like with the Warrior Code changes they should have take out the "leader's word is the Warrior Code" rule bc that is by far the worst rule in the code and it gives bad leaders way too much power as shown with Ashfur in Bramblestar's body situation. I feel like cats should also be able to vote on some topics like what if they get rid of a bad leader and the deputy is bad as well then what will happen?
actually, bluestar had 4 lives in the beginning, as she said to firestar she has lost around 5 of her lives or something after killed by rats
But why do the regular cats live longer 😭
I think the issue here, is that all cats die at the drop of a hat. There are many that only last around a book or so. Why wouldn’t they want the leader to have multiple lives to waste on dumb stuff so they’re still around when the important stuff happens?
I agree with the SunStar part but he actually only had 8 lives to Star with because of PineStar living his last life out with twolegs.
I remember watching this like an hour after it came out😭
Wait,so you’re telling me,that leaders have nine lives? I forgot….
Shadowclan goes through so many leaders, Chedastar, Raggedstar, Brokenstar, Nightstar(he didn't receive 9 lives but still) Tigerstar, Blackstar (lived the longest) Rowanstar now Tigerstar 2 all of them became leaders close to one another, the writers just love killing them all off for the clan drama
I think if we weren’t stuck in only ThunderClan for so many arcs, we would have been better able to appreciate the nine lives things. If we saw how all the other leaders lost a majority of their lives, then while the reveal that one died wouldn’t be big and surprising, it would at least feel more… idk, real?
Every leader ever: I AM PUSS IN BOOTS
@@annw1252 5 year old....
I disagree with you about Firestar's first death. It may not have great tension, in terms of a permanent character death, but it showed several things to me:
1. What happens to a leader when they lose a life.
2. Firestar's reaction to 1.
3. Starclan's presence
4. Revelation of Starclan's purpose.
5. Giving Firestar the faith and courage needed to push forward.
My opinion, though.
Wait, Firestar was killed TWICE by a tree?
I think Leafstar's nine lives ceremony was important; gaining them in the midst of all the forgiveness and reconciliation.
A lot of your problems with the story seems to be more of a writing issue rather than a lives issue. A great writer could find a good balance of having leaders lose lives.
How did only Firestar die in battles
I think it would of been much better if Scrouge took more lives out of Firestar. He was easily able to oneshot Tiger star who was clearly stronger and more fit than Firestar, It would of build a ton of tension for fire star to be left with 3 lives. Maybe even create new drama.
I’ve been waiting for you do another video and I agree👀👀
its weird how Sandstorm had one life and was older than Firestar, yet lived longer. dang, Firestar be reckless.
About what you said with MistyStar's nine lives.....
*Boy do i have some news for you.*
wanting to be leader is like wanting a death wish and becoming deputy is like signing up to die- then becoming leader normally means dying earlier than most cats
It’s like the 9 lives are more of a curse than a blessing
They really should have made it so Firestar has no time to get his nine lives, so StarClan says "Screw it, here you go" to beat out Scourge with the tension still there.
I know this video is kinda old (3 weeks old), but you forgot to mention one of firestars lives. In sunset, he actually loses one of his 9 lives bc of the fox trap that hawkfrost led(?) him to. So I'm pretty sure the order of his lives lost would be,
1. Scourge (Darkest hour)
2. Unknown (most likely in one of the patrols against some Bloodclan followers during one of ravenpaws graphic novels)
3. Rat attack (Firestar's Quest)
4. Falling tree (Dawn)
5. Fox trap (Sunset)
6. Greencough (Long Shadows)
7. Fox attack (Start of The Fourth Apprentice)
8. Russetfur (Fading Echos)
9. Wounds after The Great Battle (The Last Hope)
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but overall, I agree with the video. Leaders lose their lives super quickly, and I hate that they just either dispose of their lives, or skip them entirely. Anyways, that's it, goodbye, sorry again that this comment is late and very long to read-
kinda disagree on the scourge part cuz he could still oneshot firestar
Sunstar got mariokart'd
i havent read the newer series, but knowing the fact that they lost connection to starclan etc, it couldve been made a plotpoint that leaders cant get 9 lives anymore, or that starclan is so disconnected (and stays so disconnected) that they have to learn how to live by themselves, and maybe only getting 3 lives instead of 9
the 9 lives should stay, tbh, if it were to change, either bump it down to 8 or raise it up to 10, 8,9,or 10 lives would be OK. In fact, I think that how many lives a leader gets depends on their actions. Ex Firestar and Blusestar still getting nine and tigerstar 1 only getting 4-5, onestar getting like 7, bramble with 8 or mistystar and leafstar getting something between 9-12 for plot convenience etc etc.
"Watch the moment either of them are needed in the plot they will magically have 9 lives"
Mistystar in river: Correct!
I'm excited to see what you think of River and any possible theories
I thought Firestar lost a life in the fox trap (from Hawkfrost)
I think leaders should have more than one life to make sure they have a decent reign and don’t die in two days, maybe more like 3 lives instead of 9?
Honestly I wish the nine lives thing was a myth in Warriors as well, started by some kits who noticed that their leader could deal with lots of things due to being given extra strength and energy by Starclan.
"Mistystar's [amount of remaining lives] is still unknown"
Me, watching this way late: "ahhhhhh zero."
You missed the fox trap in the deaths 2:32
Sunstar got the short end of the stick.
I could have sworn Firestars 3rd life was lost to a fox trap.
2:25 I thought he died in Sunset too
I believe he did
I'm considering this theory and your right Akira