Classical Composer Reacts to Black Hole Sun (Soundgarden) | The Daily Doug (Episode 337)
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- Опубліковано 16 лют 2022
- Soundgarden #SoundgardenReaction #BlackHoleSun
Originally Blocked...Now Un-Blocked!
In this episode of #TheDailyDoug, I'm listening to Black Hole Sun by Soundgarden. As a kid who was in high school when this album/song came out, I was surrounded by the grunge and alt-rock music of the day, but I never paid much attention to it...at least not critically. So, today's the day. Soundgarden is making its first appearance on this channel, and we're starting with one of their biggest hits. I found the piece to be harmonically more intricate than I was expecting. I hope you enjoy!
Reference Video: • Soundgarden - Black Ho...
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Black Hole sun and Paranoid Android by Radiohead are the two 90's anthem that defines what was coming before its time, exactly everything we've been living the last 15- 20 years. This fake people, fake smiles, fake lives, fake food, distopian wolrd we've been living. I've been a lifetime SG fan, it makes me really sad Chris is no longer here, but hey how lucky we are we had him for a ride, brilliant singer songwriter and legendary band!!
Thiago, Who are you or Chris to judge any of these people as ‘fake’? Fake is what you call people who you’re jealous of cause they have no observable flaws.
Doug, you’re a better person in the long run for listening to Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, et al than these whining dopers who chose suicide EVEN THOUGH they had 20,000 fans cheering them on every night.
I'll add "Downwards spiral" by NIN
@ThiagodMoraes Youve worded it perfectly, its almost relieving that someone can see like how i do
Soundgarden really set themselves apart from the other "grunge" bands by embracing their influences, among others Led Zeppelin and, surprising or not, The Beatles. Soundgarden wasn't afraid to go psychedelic or give a nod to prog. They often wrote in complex / uncommon time signatures, but it all feels natural and not at all like math rock. I only learned of their complexity when I tried to play a riff that was easy to listen to but dammit what are they DOING here? Oh, they're playing in 10/4. Well okay then.
I hear you. 4/4 can get stale really quick when I grew up with Soundgarden, Tool etc.!! :)
Soundgarden and Nirvana were really clear about the fact that they were blending the heavy influences of Sabbath and the melodic influences of the Beatles. In 1988 I was a 17 year old metalhead who still loved his parents' Beatles albums and then someone gave me a copy of Ultramega OK...I never looked back, even 34 years later they have not been surpassed IMO.
Even in this song I heard 5/4 and I think 9/8 in the instrumental breakdown
not to mention jimmy page of led Zeppelin was a huge soundgarden fan and became buddies with Chris cornell.
Matt Cameron is such an underrated drummer.
Just a straight up fuckn brilliant album. For me, the pinnacle of grunge. The title track is an absolute masterpiece.
First it steals your mind and then it steals your!
And then there’s the vocal performance. What a gift. R.I.P. Chris
That noise is Kim Thayil on guitar using a tremolo pedal when it was played live. They recorded it through a Leslie speaker in studio for tremolo effect. You're right! The song is kind of complicated in its construction. It's in almost Drop D#. It's 4/4 and 9/8 it also uses a lot of sus chords. Chris was a brilliant composer. He had the idea for this song driving. Whistled it into a dictaphone later that day. Brought it into the studio. Wrote out a couple changes and a chorus and it was basically done. It's an unlikely hit. Anti formulaic and unfamiliar. Great tune!
I have to add that as a guitar player putting the song together is quite challenging: those sus chords are implemented through bar chords and the pain starts mounting up halfway through, but putting it all together is so satisfying... the descending riff for the bridge/end is specially fun and makes you feel quite happy to play guitar.
Chris Cornell lived with the chronic illness of Clinical Major Depression and many of his songs reflect working through depression to find life/existence - his melancholy does bleed through - I highly recommend "The Day I Tried To Live" for a powerful vocal performance and really interesting arrangements (esp the percussion) ❤
Sad. You can hear that depression a lot in retrospect. A lot of talent lost when he died
Soundgarden is the grunge version of prog. One of my absolute favorite bands ever. Still listen to them today.
Every day
@@cec4231 Same!!!
Kim Thayil is a great guitarist and really one of the most underappreciated rock guitarists
That’s cool. But this songs main guitar part was created by Chris.
This entire song was written by Chris Cornell on guitar.
Kim added the octave parts.
@@TheAgentAssassin Kim is doing a lot of improv, almost random notes during the solo. Never really plays it the same twice. So that’s not written entirely by Cornell.
It's a Leslie 16, which is an oddball Leslie design, not the normal rotating assembly of a 122 or 147. Here's what I found to be a very interesting dissection of the song and recording with Michael Beinhorn, who recorded that album. ua-cam.com/video/ng4f_fj9Lfc/v-deo.html
The 16 has a cheese wheel rotor like the small Leslie units mounted in spinet organs and such, but with a 12" speaker. Like the internal Leslie modules for home organs the rotor is vertically oriented. Also sold as the Fender Vibratone (as both Electro-Music and Fender were owned by CBS at that time period.) SRV was an avid user of these units.
I thought it was a rotary pedal with reverb.. 😂
duuudeee thnx for the leslie link
The comment I came to write! The effect is from the use of a Leslie speaker.
Had the pleasure of listening to an hour+ breakdown (stem by stem) of this by CJH (@thesessioniglive, moving to Twitch platform) accompanied by Beinhorn. It was fantastic!
Black hole sun is one of the greatest songs ever made in my opinion. This song fills me with so many emotions. It has such a feeling longing & beautiful emotional pain. It sounds like life.
Damn. You nailed it, absolutely well said. Bravo!
Great to see this got unblocked.
Not a big grunge fan but Soundgarden were a bit special - the 'in the cracks' sound is surely deliberate and in keeping with the general unsettled nature of the song. I saw them live once at a festival and they finished with the guitars-up-against-the -amps feedback ending which I always love. Really good track.
Cornell did an outstanding job of keeping the tonal center ambiguous by using chord substitutions, and also the way he would color the chords that at some points would hint at one key, and other points hinting at other keys. I love how he would use leading tones to take you down a path, but then subvert expectations. It really adds to the unease and chaotic confusion that the lyrics portray. In fact, the only section that really seems to have a strong tonal foundation is the bridge/solo, but it's so apocalyptic in structure (along with Kim Thayil's insane lead playing) that it still leaves you feeling that sense of unease and dread. The song is almost Stravinskyan in its feel. And the long meandering verse lines keep you on your toes, trying to figure out where it's going. There are nine chords in the verse before the phrase repeats, and the last one isn't in any way a resolution...but instead hangs in uncertainty.
This song really is a fun music theory toy when you sit down and dissect it.
The lyrics aren't meant to be taken literally, but they certainly paint a very deliberate picture. There's no denying that it's a song about being in such despair about the state of the world that you pray for an apocalyptic cleansing of the world. I think Chris was saying he doesn't literally hope for the end of days, but it's a mood that he gets in from time to time. I don't think he was saying that he did a "I Am the Walrus", where it's all just nonsense wordplay.
I agree with what you say about the lyrics. I'll go a little further and say the character is a nihilist. I didn't know Chris Cornell and I don't know if the lyrics reflected his personal beliefs. Yet, it's a unique space to create art within art. If one was to create a video showing Francisco Goya's "Fourteen Black Paintings" this song provides perfect accompaniment.
Been trying to find a video on the music theory behind Black Hole Sun but I can’t find one lol. Any recommendations for how I can figure out what the heck is going on musically here?
@@AshtonGraves-zo2ci Try the channel "12Tone". It's a channel that dissects a lot of songs. He might have a video on it.
Has anybody noticed the perfection of the drums?
I love this song, and it was fun to see you try to work out what was going on! Thank you for this Doug, much love to you and Megan, keep up the great work.
"wash away the rain" is an interesting absurdity. Rain does the washing, right? Maybe he was just painting abstractly with words. Part of the fun of abstraction is that it triggers one's imagination. I'm ok if he didn't have a specific plot or message to convey. It inspires thought and feeling, and that's pretty great.
I've always taken it as the rain that needed to be washed away was the distractions that kept us from being better people instead of pos's. Music's always up for interpretations.
Just saw this again and had a completely new thought.
After heavy storms or damaging rains, the sun has a cleansing effect. Wash away the rain...wash away depression...wash away whatever is troubling.
The "black hole" part doesn't work great with this thought...but I don't care. I just like music that inspires thought and emotion. Good enough for me...
What about that tempo? Probably one of the slowest songs you'll ever hear. Yet it doesn't drag on. Matt Cameron's magic.
You should check out some of their more dissonant things like "Slaves and Bulldozers" and pay attention to Kim Thayil's guitar work. It sounds like random trash at times that still grooves , until you realize he plays it the same live. Very underrated and unique guitarist.
100%
Great analysis, Doug. Chris Cornell has a great acoustic version he did during his solo career, as well. It's really special. Love this song. Thank you, Doug! Rest In Peace, Chris.
King Animal was also an incredible album from Soundgarden, and their last. Kim Thayil is a phenomenal lead guitarist with that unique tone and sound. Looking forward to more SG reactions!
Do some more Chris Cornell in the future, maybe something from Audioslave. And definitely you must do some Myles Kennedy too. He and Chris are maybe the best rock voices from U.S. for at least the last 25yrs.
Myles Kennedy doesn’t deserve to be the shit on the bottom of Cornell’s shoes. His voice makes my skin crawl. Horrible.
Chris Cornell was just a very rarely gifted musician. Loved Soundgarden and Audioslave, and love Myles Kennedy and Alter Bridge as well.
Not a fan of Kennedy's voice. Not knocking his talent or capability, but just don't care for his voice... Cornell, though - he had it all.
I’d put Jeff Buckley at the top of the list of best voices as well.
Don't forget Mike Patton..
Such a soulful tune. I can feel the long hot summer day "hanging" onto me as the sun set's over the ocean calling me back to surf one more wave. Was lucky enough to see them play live. One of the best songs ever written n played.
I haven't even watched this reaction yet but I have thoroughly enjoyed watching your work on many of my favorite bands. Soundgarden is my all-time favorite. I implore you to listen to the original version of The Day I Tried to Live. It changed my life.
Great video. One of my fav bands. That’s def their best album. All tracks are solid gold to me. Seen them live twice. Excellent band.
According to Wikipedia, the song is played using a "slightly sharp Drop D tuning" on guitar. Soundgarden often used alternate guitar tunings and fun explorations of time signatures. Not for nothin', but Chris Cornell was my favorite rock singer ever.
The chord movement in this song is what made me always appreciate it beyond it being such a huge hit for them. It's such an odd piece, and yet it works so well. Good watch! Thanks man!
I haven’t seen Doug in a while, but this analysis is really on point. Nice job, Doug!
Just caught this reaction..
Probably my favourite song ever..
My favourite band for sure.
And 100 percent my favourite singer ever.
Miss you Chris..
Rest in peace brother..
Chris never wrote a happy song in his life. He wasn't a happy man. And they usually played in drop D or drop Db, but they definitely played "in the cracks" in terms of traditional chord progressions quite a lot. You'll find the same thing when you dive into Nirvana, though Kurt had specific moves he liked to make - he was all about moving up or down in minor 3rds, no matter what chord he was on.
Also, the rain sucks, but his solution was basically "blow it all up" - the Black Hole Sun is a metaphor for death, IMO.
Lastly, that sound is definitely Thayil playing through a Rotary pedal, basically a Leslie simulator.
I mostly agree but the band had its mischievous/deadpan humor strand as well, "Big Dumb Sex" and "Full on Kevin's Mom" for example.
@@kpaasial Oh sure, though his sense of humor was as dark and morbid as everything else he wrote. Definitely not happy songs.
Superunkown is genuinely one of the best albums of all time. There is not a single song on that entire album that couldn’t stand completely on its own. They could have released ANY of them as a single, topped the charts, and disappeared forever and left us with some magic.
Instead they slapped down that album, and mindfucked music history for the rest of time.
RIP Chris Cornell.
I literally would not have become a musician, and lived out my dream of playing the world over without that man’s vocals, guitar playing, and writing.
Forever missed, and I still shed a tear every time I hear Black Hole Sun.
Beautiful comment ❤
Yes, I believe Chris achieved that warbly, psychedelic guitar sound with a Gretsch Duo Jet into a Marshall JMP 50 head driving a Leslie Model 16 cab.
Was it Chris in the studio? Because in the video, it was Kim playing (or miming playing) the part. Not that it really matters at this point.
That’s Kim.
it's was a Fender Leslie cab and a Silver Jet (Gretsch) a doc on youtube about the song is on youtube it's really good.
I'd recommend their track "Spoonman" from the same album, for some very lovely odd meter: A super catchy song with the main motif in 7/4.
doug's videos always make me happier
This is a wonderful song, somewhat reminiscent in composition of the Bruford-Wetton-Cross-Fripp era King Crimson.
Check out the mix in detail here ua-cam.com/video/ng4f_fj9Lfc/v-deo.html
Such a great song from an amazing album full of great songs. Side note: right after Chris died, Norah Jones did a fantastic cover of this song, performed in the last theater Chris performed in. Very emotional, and she plays with the harmonies in a beautiful way.
As a part-time songwriter myself, I always appreciate when musicians say something like, "My song means whatever you think it means." What I find is that many times a songwriter will not even be aware of the message in their lyrics, as the muse strikes them ofttimes in ways that bypass conscious thought.
This song was recorded in G and then vari-sped up a quarter tone. Same thing goes for The Cure's Friday I'm In Love.
Cletus, U know 2 much(ha-ha) Did U see an interview or have a "producer's ear"?
@@robertakerman3570 That bit of info came from an interview, although I don't remember if it was Chris, Matt, or producer Michael Beinhorn who explained how and why it was done.
@@cletusbeauregard1972 I'm so feeling better about Myself now. Thanx 4 the reveal.
Man, this song was inescapable when rock was still played on radio and tv!
Beautiful music application as always excellent
FINALLY! Been lookin' 4 this.
absolutely amazing how you break down everything............
The first videoclip I remember to ever see was Black Hole Sun, when I was 8 years old. I was disturbed but also amazed when I saw it and inspired me to like music, thank you very much Soundgarden ❤️
Doug, this video freaked me out in the 90s!! Soundgarden and Chris’s music is amazing.
Some of it makes me cry. The Audioslave most specifically
Looking forward to more Soundgarden :)
Kim is using a pedal called the "ROTOSPHERE" to give that Leslie cabinet effect.
I'd really love to hear your take of the Shoegaze genre Doug. Specifically My Bloody Valentine (anything from the album "Loveless" as a starting point) and also The Cocteau Twins (the song "Heaven or Las Vegas" from the album of the same title). I hope you can add them to your list and try to react to them at some stage. I'm excited also for your burgeoning Grunge journey! All the best from Ireland!
I impulse bought Loveless not knowing who/what it was. My mind was blown...
Slowdive!
mbv yes!
I love this track and also love your analysis. Both from a musically technical view but you also listen and feel the music instead of just giving a compositional critique. 👍
If you wanted a deeper dive into this, here's an explanation of recording techniques used and samples of isolated tracks. It's a great story. ua-cam.com/video/ng4f_fj9Lfc/v-deo.html
Superunknown was the Best technical grunge album! No other grunge band could even be a Soundgarden coverband with the skills shown on this album!
this song literally changed my life. I watched that music video when I was about 13 and it both terrified and intrigued me. I'd never heard anything like it and it really got me into wanting to listen to more music. And yes, the entire song is major chords!
Thanks for this! Soundgarden is my all-time favorite band. Would love to hear your take on Fell on Black Days and The Day I Tried to Live.
Great stuff Doug. I'd love to see your take on Godspeed You! Black Emperor 🙂maybe Mladic.
I would recommend Slaves and Bulldozers as a good track from them. It's not their most popular or even best, but its the "most soundgarden" song.
Love that song
Great vid, Doug. I love to see you branching out into some new genres of music. I'd be curious to see your thoughts on some Modest Mouse tracks, their sound varied greatly throughout the years. I'd recommend you listen to "Teeth Like God's Shoeshine", which is the first track from their second studio album, The Lonesome Crowded West, which was released in 1997. Really, I enjoy this complete album, start to finish. Anyway, thanks for the great content, Doug, please do keep up the great work.
Soundgarden was class apart. Even all of the other grunge bands admitted that Soudgarden is way better than them. They're more versatile, they've made Doom, Thrash, Punk, Industrial, Hard Rock, Prog Rock etc. tracks.
My Dad was a music connoisseur and made it clear the only "Grunge" band he ever liked was Soundgarden because they genuinely made high quality music.
With that voice from Chris 🔥🔥
@@Wasserkaktus Nirvana were less gifted, but that's what made them more popular.
For me it’s mudhoney :)
@@DietrichStockmanDave grohl is gifted for sure
Hi Doug! Someone may have mentioned this already, but I believe they tuned the guitars down a half-step for this. Effectively playing the song in A (at least as far as fretting is concerned). Many bands do this - VanHalen comes to mind.
Great breakdown - thanks and keep up the great content!
Although I had heard guitars put through Leslie speakers many times listening to classic and prog rock in the 80's, I never really thought about it or was aware of it. This was the first song that made me say, "How is he getting that sound?"
Awesome reaction and analysis, man. Just a suggestion, would be nice if you could focus a little bit on the vocal melody and maybe explain how Chris make it work with those chords.
You mentioned they’re in the cracks. I believe this is in Drop D tuning down a 1/4 step. They did this a lot and used tons of alternate tunings.
So the E is down to D and the rest are tuned up half a step
@@pnut3844able thank you! I just saw a video mentioning this. I stand corrected and I’m thankful
30 years ago, I remember getting home from school and just waiting for this music video to come up on The Box. I was never disappointed.
I was very impressed that you immediately picked on the odd tuning. I have a finely tuned relative pitch so as long as something is in tune with itself, I can't tell if something is oddly tuned without picking up an instrument and playing some notes. Apparently the song was sped up slightly in post to brighten it up, thus altering the tuning. Chris Cornell was always one of my favorite grunge vocalists. A brilliant analysis!
nice one doug, enjoyed listening to what you thought of the song
As for the tuning sounding in between pitches, it could be that the instruments might not be tuned to standard A=440.
There is a "movement" of sorts to tune to A=432, or something like that. I play in a band that does this. Musicians used to tune to a lower standard before the 20th century, and some people like the feel of it.
Suggest you try some King's X. Anything off of their 1989 album Gretchen Goes To Nebraska... well, anything other than Over My Head (literally anything else). The Difference (In The Garden Of St. Anne's On The Hill) is incredible - one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard. I'll Never Be The Same is one of the best / heaviest hard rock songs of the period. Send A Message has some incredible harmonies, both vocally and instrumentally (guitar) - a lot like The Difference, only electric instead of acoustic. Out Of The Silent Planet and Pleiades are both wild and impressive. Summerland and Everybody Knows A Little Bit Of Something are both driving and powerful. This was truly one of the best albums of all time.
Huge fan of the band since the late 80's. Chris preferred to record his vocals alone in the Control Room after the Mix was set up in his
headphones. He would Start and Stop the Studer A827 himself. The bass was recorded with a DI Track and a raging Ampeg head plugged into an 18" cab alone in room. Legendary.
One of the truly unique voices in rock
The music constrution it's really fantastic holding us in an anxiety of a note closure ...
Excellent spot on the Leslie Doug!
I read somewhere where this is one of the few tracks that uses all 12 notes. Either way it's a truly stunning song. Cornell is sadly missed. One of the best rock voices ever.
So I bought this cd and rented se7en the same weekend. I love them both and link them now and forever.
Great discussion!!
They were excellent live- when they sobered up or came down!
Saw them 3 times
Still one of my favorite Soundgarden songs love the hauntingly dark sound, freaked my girlfriend out so much when the video came out she wouldn't watch it.
I've loved this song since it was released and only just recently realized the solo part goes in 9/8.
Probably the best and most progressive of the big grunge guys. Chris’s vocals are like an Angel. Good reaction. Can’t to hear more
most haunting song ever imo, and the best song ever
Would love to see you cover Shine On from Soundgarden next, as well as any thoughts you might have on the vocal belting thing.
Never ever noticed it before, but the fact that the progression never reaches resolution, with 'won't you come?' over the top is blindingly obvious now Doug has called it out. So clever.
Masterpiece.
very glad you noticed how they're between keys. i've always thought that was a strange choice. Makes it hard to play along with!
4:22 they’re tuned to Drop D in 448hz so 8 hz above the standard 440 :)
It's actually a guitar through a Leslie, you're correct! I've tried it before too, sounds perfect for this song
So tragic that Chris felt he had to take his own life and that it's become such a problem in so many human societies. Glad to have seen him play live. He was a giant for sure.
@@donaldwhitt689 first time I've heard that. Highly sus as they say. 🙄
@@dr.zarkhov9753 What did they say? I can’t see their comment?
Fantastic and yes Leslie. Check out Framptons version that Cornell just loved!
This song will always be memorable
the song is in Drop D Chris's guitar is a Gretsch Silver Jet from 1956 or 57 and the Opening sound you hear is from Fender Cab with Leslie spinning horn inside.
This is one of Peter Frampton’s faves. In his last couple of years touring it was in every set list. And of course he just killed the lead!!! PS It’s hard(er) to figure the chords/key because the lead guitar is in drop D tuning.
I appreciate your musical analysis on this one. One of my favorite songs and it’s always been a puzzle. It’s just weird by a lot of musical standards
i love the modal major shifts in grunge.
The "Rush" of Seattle . Friggin love both bands
Vox and Line6 (maybe others) both had effects that included a Leslie effect built in.
There's an old Steppenwolf song called, "Hodge Podge Strained Through a Leslie"! Ah, memories come to life at the slightest bidding!
The guitarist (Kim Thayil) tuned way down, and perhaps in the cracks on this one. I love Dave Grohl's take: The Beatles (melodic and catchy) meet Black Sabbath (dark and mysterious) on Black Hole Sun (paraphrasing). I agree with Mr. Grohl! Great song!
Honestly, with Chris Cornell you CAN NOT go wrong, all his content is pure gold. Soundgarden, Temple of the dog, Audioslave, and his solo works. He really was an amazing musician, probalby had more talent in his left pinky than I in my whole being. He is simply astounding from his song lyrics to his melodies. You should really check out more of his material I think you will be pleasently surprised and probably blown away.
Yep. It's either a leslie cabinet or a simulated leslie effect. Most guitar processors have some kind of leslie effect in them, due in large part to the popularization in the 70s after the Beatles, Zeppelin and the like started using them in the late 60s. Leslies are cool. It's basically a midrange horn speaker shouting through a rotating baffle that creates a doppler effect on every revolution. You can simulate it kinda close with a chorus effect, then a vibrato effect. But an actual mechanical leslie is always the best.
Nice to see Jon Anderson of Yes being regarded as a reference point. 😊👍
I wish there was a version of this video as it was originally released, without all the extra computer generated graphics. There's a version where the guys are just looking up, and it is a bit more mysterious as to what they are looking at. By the way, Chris Cornell was an extremely talented drummer as well. They brought in Matt Cameron so Chris could move to the front and focus on vocals..
As a composition? It doesn't get much better than this, over the last 30 years! Harmonic minors, Bach chords, etc. The damned thing has been recorded orchestral for a reason! 💯
That's their sound, through a reverb and chorus effect pedals, with drive and maybe some of their other pedals, but those are the main ones for that sound where you mentioned keyboards :)
Soundtrack of my youth :-) This is one of the cornerstones of his legacy and he doesn't get the appraisal he deserves. Brilliant :-)
PS: Don't ignore Audioslave ;-)